[{"data":1,"prerenderedAt":72098},["ShallowReactive",2],{"/podcast/cto-special-32-peyman-pouryekta-interim-cto-und-berater":3},{"podcast":4,"pickOfTheDayCount":107,"speakerCount":108,"relatedPodcasts":109,"transcript":365},{"id":5,"published_on":6,"type":7,"number":8,"title":9,"slug":10,"description":11,"transcript":12,"audio_url":13,"apple_url":12,"google_url":12,"spotify_url":12,"cover_image":14,"banner_image":26,"speakers":37,"members":65,"picks_of_the_day":98,"tags":99,"tagsPrepared":104,"speakersPrepared":105},"2cd0a987-fc9e-4d4a-998b-2aad2d90862d","2025-06-17T04:00:00.000Z","cto_special","#32","Peyman Pouryekta - Interim CTO und Berater","cto-special-32-peyman-pouryekta-interim-cto-und-berater","\u003Cp>Nachdem er einige Jahre selbst CTO war, ber&auml;t Peyman Pouryekta heute selbstst&auml;ndig CTOs, Firmen und Venture Funds in jeder Phase ihrer Entwicklung. Dass er einmal in dieser Rolle landen w&uuml;rde, war aber lange nicht selbstverst&auml;ndlich.\u003C/p>\n\u003Cp>Die Biografien vieler CTOs sind recht &auml;hnlich &ndash; nicht so die von Peyman. 1982 im iranischen Teheran geboren, kam seine Familie kurz darauf nach Deutschland. Peyman war auch kein Mustersch&uuml;ler, aber er wollte schon immer das gro&szlig;e Ganze verstehen. Nach einem Jahr als Elektriker und einem abgebrochenen Studium fand er den Weg zur Software-Entwicklung &ndash; erst mit einer Ausbildung, dann mit einem Studium.\u003C/p>\n\u003Cp>Anschlie&szlig;end zog Peyman in den 2010er Jahren nach Berlin, wo er fr&uuml;h mit neuronalen Netzen, k&uuml;nstlicher Intelligenz und an skalierbarer Produktentwicklung arbeitete.\u003C/p>\n\u003Cp>Wir sprechen mit ihm &uuml;ber seine Ausbildung und den Weg in die ersten Leadership-Rollen. Und wir erfahren, warum Peyman selbst nach mehreren CTO-Rollen noch mehr Freiheit und Eigenverantwortung gesucht hat &ndash; und wo er sie letztendlich fand.\u003C/p>\n\u003Cp>Au&szlig;erdem diskutieren wir, welche Fehler F&uuml;hrungskr&auml;fte, Gr&uuml;nder:innen und Firmen immer wieder machen und wie man diese vermeiden kann. Und nat&uuml;rlich widmen wir uns auch der Frage, welche Rolle KI zuk&uuml;nftig spielen wird.\u003C/p>",null,"https://www.buzzsprout.com/176239/episodes/17331136-cto-special-32-peyman-pouryekta-interim-cto-und-berater.mp3",{"id":15,"title":16,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":17,"filename_download":18,"metadata":19,"type":20,"filesize":21,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":22,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":23,"uploaded_on":24,"folder":12,"width":25,"height":25,"charset":12,"duration":12},"2d4640a4-dd1d-4750-b6b4-8e9ba469662a","Peyman Pouryekta","2d4640a4-dd1d-4750-b6b4-8e9ba469662a.jpg","Peyman Pouryekta.jpg",{},"image/jpeg","1644109","2025-06-13T14:41:16.559Z","7d52cb41-56d8-499c-b7a2-46c2e0d8f405","2025-06-13T14:41:16.556Z",1500,{"id":27,"title":28,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":29,"filename_download":30,"metadata":31,"type":32,"filesize":33,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":34,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":23,"uploaded_on":35,"folder":12,"width":36,"height":36,"charset":12,"duration":12},"05ed68d9-6689-4cf5-997a-85f509597bb2","Peyman Pouryekta Profil","05ed68d9-6689-4cf5-997a-85f509597bb2.png","Peyman Pouryekta Profil.png",{},"image/png","985820","2025-06-13T14:41:28.947Z","2025-06-13T14:41:28.944Z",1024,[38],{"speaker":39},{"id":40,"slug":41,"academic_title":12,"occupation":42,"first_name":43,"last_name":44,"description":45,"event_image":46,"profile_image":56},"979fa2b7-d4a8-40e8-9b73-b27a74fe14a7","peyman-pouryekta","Berater und Interim CTO","Peyman","Pouryekta","\u003Cp>Peyman Pouryekta bringt Tech-Startups wieder auf Kurs. Als Interim-CTO mit Tech-Erfahrung seit 2005 &uuml;bernimmt er, wenn Startups feststecken: Sei es beim Aufbau funktionierender Teams, bei strategischen Technologie-Fragen oder der Produktentwicklung.\u003C/p>\n\u003Cp>Zum Zeitpunkt der Podcastaufnahme begleitet er als externer Venture Developer im AI Founder Fellowship von Mission KI, einer bundesgef&ouml;rderten Initiative zur F&ouml;rderung von KI-Gr&uuml;ndungen, ausgew&auml;hlte PhD-Talente auf dem Weg zum eigenen KI-Startup.\u003C/p>\n\u003Cp>Fotograf: Peter Rigaud von Shotview\u003C/p>",{"id":47,"title":48,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":49,"filename_download":50,"metadata":51,"type":20,"filesize":52,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":53,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":23,"uploaded_on":54,"folder":12,"width":55,"height":36,"charset":12,"duration":12},"6cac9017-59f2-416c-8531-f38bd296b364","Peyman Pouryekta Event","6cac9017-59f2-416c-8531-f38bd296b364.jpg","Peyman_Pouryekta_event.jpg",{},"1583160","2025-06-13T14:39:43.627Z","2025-06-13T14:39:43.623Z",1536,{"id":57,"title":58,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":59,"filename_download":60,"metadata":61,"type":32,"filesize":62,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":63,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":23,"uploaded_on":64,"folder":12,"width":36,"height":36,"charset":12,"duration":12},"29e1edda-16c3-4729-b9fa-f80e43af6c49","Peyman Pouryekta Speaker Profile","29e1edda-16c3-4729-b9fa-f80e43af6c49.png","Peyman Pouryekta Speaker Profile.png",{},"1594083","2025-06-13T14:39:41.338Z","2025-06-13T14:39:41.335Z",[66,83],{"member":67},{"id":68,"first_name":69,"last_name":70,"occupation":71,"description":72,"normal_image":73},"47099351-508c-44d9-a2a2-855181c72ee8","Jan Gregor","Emge-Triebel","// programmier.bar Tech Community Lead // Podcast-Host","\u003Cp>Jan ist ein echter Technik-Fan mit einer facettenreichen Karriere, die sich &uuml;ber Web-, Mobile-App-Entwicklung und DevOps erstreckt. Dank seiner vielf&auml;ltigen Rollen &ndash; vom Entwickler &uuml;ber den Teamleiter bis hin zum Vice President Development &ndash; verf&uuml;gt Jan &uuml;ber einen gro&szlig;en Erfahrungsschatz in der Softwareentwicklung und Developer Advocacy.\u003Cbr>Seine Leidenschaften jenseits der Technik reichen von Tauchg&auml;ngen an exotischen Orten &uuml;ber das Eintauchen in digitale wie analoge Spiele bis hin zum Abtauchen in gelungene Plot-Twists in B&uuml;chern und Filmen.\u003C/p>",{"id":74,"title":75,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":76,"filename_download":77,"metadata":78,"type":20,"filesize":79,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":80,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":81,"uploaded_on":82,"folder":12,"width":36,"height":36,"charset":12,"duration":12},"ef7c0ccb-a2b5-48a0-8261-c8bbfffd917b","Jan CD","ef7c0ccb-a2b5-48a0-8261-c8bbfffd917b.jpg","Jan_CD.jpg",{},"649400","2024-07-26T09:26:17.846Z","e97179d2-51b3-4deb-828f-9524091441f5","2024-07-26T09:26:17.710Z",{"member":84},{"id":85,"first_name":86,"last_name":87,"occupation":88,"description":89,"normal_image":90},"958f6624-c721-4ff9-8a97-69148f540945","Dennis","Becker","// Podcast-Host","\u003Cp>Dennis ist Head of Development bei Lotum und k&uuml;mmert sich liebevoll um die Entwickler:innen und deren Weiterentwicklung.&nbsp;\u003Cbr>In den Podcastfolgen &uuml;bernimmt Dennis gerne die Moderation. Beim t&auml;glichen Tischtennis ist er immer am Start und seit wenigen Jahren passionierter Kitesurfer. Mittlerweile ist er auch Vibe Coder mit Leidenschaft und &uuml;berzeugt, dass seine Kolleg:innen AI untersch&auml;tzen.&nbsp;\u003C/p>",{"id":91,"title":92,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":93,"filename_download":94,"metadata":12,"type":20,"filesize":95,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":96,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":12,"uploaded_on":97,"folder":12,"width":36,"height":36,"charset":12,"duration":12},"7a9fd72e-16b1-4283-8c1f-348a3e7986f9","Dennis 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Systel","https://www.buzzsprout.com/176239/8624015-cto-special-7-claudia-plattner-von-db-systel.mp3",{"id":343,"title":344,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":345,"filename_download":346,"metadata":12,"type":20,"filesize":347,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":348,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":12,"uploaded_on":349,"folder":12,"width":319,"height":319,"charset":12,"duration":12},"7fec2573-319c-4bf8-81cf-cd459ec15220","Claudia Plattner Von DB Systel","7fec2573-319c-4bf8-81cf-cd459ec15220.jpg","claudia_plattner_von_db_systel_e7036baa03.jpg","155186","2022-01-16T14:26:37.894Z","2021-12-30T14:15:08.765Z",{"id":351,"slug":352,"published_on":353,"type":7,"number":354,"title":355,"audio_url":356,"cover_image":357},"06b01b25-4fed-40df-9980-5f53015aa6c2","cto-special-6-thomas-holl-von-babbel","2021-04-23T12:00:00.000Z","#6","Thomas Holl von Babbel","https://www.buzzsprout.com/176239/8390033-cto-special-6-thomas-holl-von-babbel.mp3",{"id":358,"title":359,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":360,"filename_download":361,"metadata":12,"type":20,"filesize":362,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":363,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":12,"uploaded_on":364,"folder":12,"width":319,"height":319,"charset":12,"duration":12},"5d07c07d-8926-4cda-acd1-7f3afd3ff891","Thomas Holl Von 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und herzlich willkommen zu einem neuen CTO Special, das wir auch lange nicht mehr hatten in der Programmier. Ich bin grade auf dem ganz falschen Fuß aufgestanden und weiß gar nicht mehr, wann das Letzte war, aber es ist auf alle Fälle schon 'n bisschen her. Das war mit Katrin, das war, glaub ich, die Nummer 30 oder 31 oder so. Und ich laber einfach so lange weiter, bis ich's wieder find. Das war nämlich die 31. So. Aber heute sind wir 1 weiter. Monate sind vergangen. Wir nehmen ein neues CTO Special auf, heute mit Paymann Projekte. Hallo Paymann. Hi Jan, hi Dennis. Freut mich. Schön, dass Du da bist. Und außerdem natürlich wieder dabei, der Dennis hier in meinem linken Studiosessel mit am Start. In meinem Lieblingsformat. Ich weiß gar nicht, ob ich damit das andere son bisschen degradiere, aber am liebsten hab ich doch das CTO Special immer noch am spannendsten. Was noch nicht ist. Immer das Format am liebsten, in dem Du grade sitzt, oder? Sitze. Mhm. Außer das CTO Special. Warum ist das CDO Special ein Lieblingsformat, Dennis? Na, für mich ist es einfach eine superspannende Perspektive, so einzelne Persönlichkeiten 'n bisschen kennenzulernen, wie die verschiedenen Lebensläufe aussehen, wie man da hingekommen ist, was man macht. Das ist irgendwie was, was man nicht so täglich irgendwo liest. Also Du kannst das zwar irgendwie abstrakt auf 'nem LinkedIn Profil irgendwie noch vielleicht mal sehen. Aber ja, was waren so die Entscheidungsschritte? Was hat man Spannendes erlebt? Und da gibt es einfach Persönlichkeiten, die einiges zu erzählen haben und ich bin mir sicher, dass Peymann dazugehört. Da bin ich auch ziemlich sicher. Aber vielleicht bevor wir zu den ganz spannenden kritischen Stationen kommen, fangen wir vielleicht mal ganz vorne an. Peymann, wie bist Du in den Computerzaubertrank gefallen? Was war dein erster Einstieg? Also ich hatte ganz früh im, ich glaub, Grundschulalter war das so ungefähr, hab ich irgendwann mich mehr mit Technik beschäftigt. Und ich glaub, ich hab zu Geburtstag oder Weihnachten hab ich mal sonen Elektrobaukasten geschenkt gekriegt. Kennst Du, Kosmos, glaub ich, Elektrobaukasten oder so was? Oh ja, oh ja. Wo man so Schaltung sammeln Gibt's auch heute. Schalten kann. Gibt's immer noch, ja. Ja. Okay. Ja. Genau, so was hab ich geschenkt bekommen und dann ich mir Radio zusammenbauen und ich war son bisschen technikaffin. Ich glaub, meine Eltern haben das auch so gemerkt und 'n bisschen in die Richtung dann gepusht. Und irgendwann hab ich dann ganz klassisch, wie glaub ich, viele andere irgendwann Commodore 64 bekommen. Ich hab das beim Nachbarsfreund gesehen und da haben wir Spiele drauf gezockt. Und dann war's nicht mehr allzu weit davon, bis ich meine Eltern davon überzeugt hab, okay, ich brauch auch so was. Die dachten natürlich, ich fang da damit an, großartig irgendwie was zu lernen, aber ich hab natürlich am Anfang nur gespielt. Da hab ich mal eine Frage, weil das ist ja sone Einschießgeschichte, die mir relativ häufig fallen, ne. Das war son Commodore oder bei meinen Eltern, dann war's irgendwie sone sone erste Doss Kiste irgendwie. Ja. Habt ihr, also ihr beide noch son Gefühl dafür, was das damals für Eltern für son Kostenaufwand war? Weil weißt Du, heute so, ja, ich stell meinem Kind mal irgendwie sonen Rechner, da gibt's ja, ja, in jeder Price range irgendwie was, aber das war ja, als wir son bisschen jünger waren, noch sah das ja noch ganz anders aus, ne? Ja. Also ich erinner mich, das war für meine Eltern schon 'n größerer Schritt. Also es war viel Geld für die, das zu investieren. Ich, wenn ich mich richtig erinnere, war das ja auch nicht nur, dass Du, also war's, glaub ich, erst mal Secondhand. Das heißt, irgendeiner hatte das vorher gekauft und ich hab dann die zweite Version davon gekriegt. Und das war ja auch nicht nur, dass Du irgendwie nur ein fertiges Gerät, so laptopmäßig Monitor alles dran gekauft hast, sondern Du hast ja einzelne Geräte gehabt im Endeffekt. Und dann braucht's dann noch 'n Fernseher oder 'n Monitor irgendwie dazu. Das heißt, das war schon 'n bisschen aufwendiger. Ja. Überlegt hat so, was das Äquivalent zu heute ist, so was, was Ja, ist schwierig. Ob, wahrscheinlich ist es mehr als irgendwie eine Nintendo Switch oder so, würd ich vermuten. Oh ja, bestimmt. Ja. Bestimmt. Ich weiß noch nicht, ob wie teuer es leider war. Na, ich weiß auch noch nicht. Also bei mir war's tatsächlich auch vererbt. Also mein mein Opa war derjenige in der Familie, der da immer sehr nah dran war und den Commodore 64 dann an an meinen Bruder und mich gegeben hat. Ja, könnte ich dir aber gar nicht so sagen. Ich mein, danach gab's ja, also es gab ja diese, das hat man ja auch schon mal manchmal in 'nem Lebenslauf, es gab ja diese ALDI Computerphase. Ja. Also da muss jetzt leider die Hörerinnen da draußen enttäuschen. Das hat uns halt alle nicht so betroffen eigentlich, ne. Wieso? Ja, also ALDI Computer, das war doch so hier Zweitausender dann, ne. Früher Zweitausender. Na ja, also ich weiß, dass ich mal vom ALDI stand und son da drauf gewartet hab. Ja? Ja, ja, ja. Also das ist schon, vielleicht warst Du schon advanced und hast irgendwie deine eigenen Grafikkarten reingeschraubt, aber das war so vom Gesamtpaket und die waren jetzt, boah, also ich könnte jetzt auch keinen keinen Preis mehr sagen, aber die waren weit weg von irgendwie heutigen MacBooks oder anderen Sachen oder was auch immer sie, die gingen irgendwie so, ne. Also Du fühlst fast dreistellig noch, oder? Ja, genau. Ja. Das war dreistellig, da bin ich ziemlich sicher, ich hätt jetzt auch so was wie 400, 500 Euro, die Range gesagt. Also 'n c 64, Ja. 83 erschienen, Damals fünfzehnhundert Mark, inflationsbereinigter Preis heute ungefähr achtzehnhundert Euro. Mhm. Also das ist schon Ja, aber Du hast auch gesagt, also, ne, ne Eröffnungspreis. Also nicht Eröffnungspreis, aber am Anfang. Einführungspreis. Einführungspreis. Ja, kann sein, dass es Und wenn Du's dann irgendwie Secondhand hast und so, ne. Aber ja klar. Trotzdem auf jeden Fall jetzt nicht, lagen nicht kostenlos rum auf der Straße und man konnt sie einsammeln. Okay. Du Du hast nur gespielt, hast Du gesagt. Was war so das Erste an, was Du dich erinnern kannst, was mehr war als spielen? Das war, also es war schon immer in der Anfangszeit sehr stark Spiele. Also wir haben so Quake und so was, also so was gespielt. Ah ja. Und dann ging's eher in die Richtung RC Channels, weil, also Ah. Wir waren halt in so Ihr hattet schon Internet so früh? Ja, das war 'n bisschen später dann. Das war 'n bisschen später natürlich dann. Aber so richtig, wo ich dann wirklich was mit Computer gemacht hab, also ganz am Anfang, wenn wenn jetzt über Commodoreo und vielleicht den ersten 3 Sechsundachtziger, wenn man darüber nachdenkt. Da ging's dann eher darum, Dateien zu kopieren, Spiele zu kopieren oder so was oder also oder vielleicht mal zu formatieren oder so was. Viel gemacht haben wir damit nicht. Vielleicht 'n bisschen mal 'n Brief geschrieben oder so was für für die Eltern oder so was. Aber sonst, Programmieren hab ich eigentlich erst später, viel später angefangen. Und Ja. Ja. Aber es ist halt trotzdem noch mal was anderes, finde ich. Also wenn man heute eine Tenntenance Hirt und die machst Du an und steckst 'n Spiel rein, trotzdem natürlich bei 'nem Commodore ein anderes Erlebnis gewesen, weil Du musstest halt irgendwas in eine Art Kommandozeile eintippen. Ja, genau. Also das heißt so, der, es fühlte sich halt deutlich technischer an, als als der Zugriff heute ist zu spielen und das braucht es so auf jeden Fall. Und so 'n paar Grundlagen, was bedeutet das überhaupt? Was ist eine eine Speichermedium und so? Also 'n paar Dinge musste man einfach wissen. Und vielleicht war dadurch dann einfach der Zugang schon technischer, als er heute vielleicht ist. Ja. Das wird auf jeden Fall der Fall sein. Ich hatte auch nie Spielekonsole beispielsweise, hatt ich irgendwie nie. Also ich hab dann, wenn überhaupt dann Spiele aufm Computer gespielt und vielleicht später dann mal bei Freunden oder so was. Aber irgendwie war mir dieses, okay, ich hab jetzt eine Kommandozeile und musste irgendwie was eintippen, damit was passiert. Ist schon irgendwie 'n gängiges Ding. Wann hattest Du so zum ersten Mal das Gefühl, dass Computer so in deiner Zukunft, in deiner Ausbildung, in deinem Job eine Rolle spielen können? Ich glaub, das war nachm Abi erst so richtig, beziehungsweise Fachabi hab ich gemacht. Weil ich dann irgendwann gemerkt hab, okay, ich beschäftige mich viel mehr mit technischen Sachen. Und ich wusste damals nicht so richtig, was ich, was der nächste Schritt sein sollte. Und das kam dadurch zustande, weil ich war zum Beispiel gar nicht gut in der Schule. Also ich gab nur 3 Fächer, wo ich gut war. Das war Sport, Mathe und Kunst. Und ich hab dann irgendwie später herausgefunden, weil Du musst die Schule wechseln, bin dann auf eine Fachoberschule gegangen und hab in dem Bereich Elektrotechnik meine mein Fachabitur gemacht. Und das zu machen, musstest Du 'n Jahr lang 'n Praktikum machen auch. Heißt, Du bist zur Schule gegangen und hast 'n Jahr lang auch Praktikum gemacht und ich hab das als Elektriker gemacht aufm Bau mit, also nicht nur Kabelziehen im im Rohbau, sondern auch Datennetzwerkschränke und solche Sachen. Und hab ich schon langsam gemerkt, so, okay, irgendwie die technischen Sachen liegen mir ganz gut. Ich konnte sogar damals recht gut mit komplexen Zahlen umgehen. Das lag mir irgendwie, also ich vor gute Mathe immer und logischen Themen. Und dadurch kam das dann irgendwann zustande. Also ich hab dann angefangen, mal kurz angefangen zu studieren, aber eigentlich hab ich erst danach dann gemerkt, okay, ich brauch irgendwas Praktisches und ich muss irgendwie in Richtung Ausbildung denken. Kannst Du heute noch 'n Netzwerkkabel krempen? Boah, weiß ich gar nicht. Doch, ich, nee, wahrscheinlich nicht mehr. Wahrscheinlich nicht mehr. Also ist schon so so lange her wirklich. Aber ja. Ansonsten verlernt verlernt man gefühlt irgendwie sehr schnell. Ich hab das so während dem Hausbau, die ersten Kabel im Stecker sahen sehr schief aus bei mir. Am Ende war ich sehr zufrieden und heut ich kenn ich's auch nicht mehr. Ja. Du brauchst aber spezielle Tools im Endeffekt dafür, ne. Also es gibt ja, ich weiß gar nicht mehr, wie die heißen, euch zu sein. Weil im Endeffekt während der Zeit, wo ich viel aufm Bau gearbeitet hab, ging's dann oft auch, also Datennetzwerkschrank hatten wir natürlich auch. Aber der Fokus war irgendwie, in Düsseldorf aufm Bau fließen auf, nicht fließend, die Wände aufzukloppen, Kabel reinzulegen, Netzwerkschränke dann irgendwie zu verbinden und solche Sachen und Strom zu legen überall. Und das war dann eher 'n bisschen ja son bisschen robustere Arbeit als jetzt tiefe Datennetzwerkthema irgendwie sich damit zu beschäftigen. Ach so, was waren das damals so für für Kunden, für Projekte? Wie muss man sich das vorstellen? Weil so Sachen wie wie Heimnetz und Automatisierung, das war ja, gab's ja damals so eigentlich kaum, oder? Also wer hatte damals schon Interesse an so an so Set ups? Ja. Also es gab zum Beispiel 'n Neubau in Düsseldorf. Und ich musste dann morgens früh schon zur Firma, weil wir 6 Uhr losgefahren sind, 7 Uhr aufm Bau in Düsseldorf zu sein. Das heißt, ich musste sehr früh mal aufstehen. Und dann sind wir da hingefahren. Das ist 'n Neubau gewesen. Recht wohlhabende Gegend, würd ich sagen. Und die wollten halt nicht nur irgendwie Strom haben, sondern die wollten auch 'n Netzwerk hat in in den in den Gebäuden haben. Und nicht irgendwie außen außen auch 'n Putz drauf zu zu klatschen, sondern wirklich in den Wänden mit Trends verarbeitet zu haben. Das waren oft auch größere Gebäude, manchmal auch son Gewerbegebiet. Und in die Richtung ging das dann oft. Cool. Ja, von 'ner anstrengende Zeit, echt zu sein. Aber ich hab dann gemerkt, wo der Unterschied zwischen körperlicher Arbeit ist und wenn man dann im Büro ist und seinen Kopf mehr anstrengt. Ja, kann ich mir vorstellen, dass das auch für für die spätere Zeit dann irgendwie Eindrücke sind, ne, die man mitnehmen kann und Erfahrungen, wenn man wenn man unterschiedliche Dinge irgendwie gemacht hat in der Zeit. Du hast gesagt, Du hast das Studium abgebrochen, weil Du dann es praktisch, also Du warst eher praxisorientiert und wolltest daher eher eine Ausbildung machen? Ja. Also ich hab ich hab nach meinem Fachabi, was in Elektrotechnik abgeschlossen wurde, hab ich gedacht, boah, ich war so gut da drin. Also was heißt so gut, ne? Ich hatte einigermaßen guten Abschluss. Aber ich dachte mir, okay, ich werd jetzt studieren, weil ich wusste nicht, was ich jetzt irgendwie als Ausbildung oder arbeitstechnik direkt machen sollte. Nun hab ich gedacht, ich mach jetzt Elektrotechnik. Und ich war damals so, hatt ich so gehört, wenn Du Elektrotechnik studierst, das machen nicht viele. Und wenn Du da 'n zweiten Semester schon durch bist, sprich dich schon Siemens an und dann kriegst Du 'n Vertrag und verdienst direkt 2500 Euro. Und das hat mich voll so Ich war son bisschen, dachte so, boah, geil, dann verdienstste dein eigenes Geld. Mhm. Und dann bin ich da hingegangen, hab das ein, 2 Semester gemacht und wir waren da zu viert in dem ganzen Studiengang gefühlt, wo wo jeder son bisschen für sich so gearbeitet hat. Und ich da, ich bin halt jemand, der, ich spiel Fußball und so, also jetzt nicht mehr. Aber in der Vergangenheit hab ich sehr viel Fußball gespielt. So viel das Teamgefühl mochte ich sehr gerne. Und das hat irgendwie nicht gepasst. Und das war sehr theoretisch alles, also Vorlesungen zu haben. Und dann hab ich irgendwann gemerkt, okay, das passt gar nicht so richtig. Und dann hab ich's abgebrochen. Ich hatte während der Zeit auch nebenberuflich noch in in in der Kita gearbeitet, was da noch mal andere Perspektive reinbringt, glaub Aber ich hab dann irgendwann entschieden, okay, das geht nicht. Ich muss was anderes machen. Und dann hab ich mich angefangen, als Fachinformatiker zu bewerben. Genau, das hat im ersten Schritt nicht funktioniert. Ich weiß, hab noch hat sich son bisschen meinen Kopf reingebrannt. Ich hab 65 Bewerbungen geschrieben und das war nicht damals, ich 65 Bewerbungen geschrieben. Und das war nicht damals so, dass man das irgendwie per PDF und dann verschickt man das irgendwie, sondern also handschriftlich war's auch nicht mehr, aber ich musste schon alles ausdrucken in sone schöne Mappe reinpacken und dann per Post da hinschicken, damit das nicht verknickt und alles. Manchmal hab ich sogar persönlich vorbeigebracht. Und keiner wollte mich. Keiner wollte mich als Fachinformatiker. Und dann hab ich irgendwann in, also ich hab so auch in der Umgebung von Essen, weil ich bin in Essen groß geworden. In der Umgebung hab ich mich auch beworben. Und dann hab ich irgendwann dann gesehen, dass in Essen eine Rolle offen ist für eine Ausbildung im Bereich Mediengestaltung, Non Print. Und ich hatt ich mir 'n bisschen durchgelesen, was das ist. Und dacht mir, okay, so richtig funktioniert das nicht, aber bewirb dich mal da drauf. Und das war, also hatt ich 'n sehr glückliches Händchen, glaub ich. Also ich hatte Glück. Also 'n Händchen hatt ich vielleicht nicht, ich hatte einfach Glück. Weil da hab ich im Endeffekt das Team oder die Chefs kennengelernt, die mich, die mir alles eigentlich beigebracht haben. Es war zwar eine, also ich bin zum Bewerbungsgespräch gegangen. Die waren so modern, die meinten, ja, schick mir mal eine PDF. Und dann hab ich son PDF Generator genommen, wo noch son Logo von dem Tool draufstand und so was. Fand die aber trotzdem gut. Die meinten, hast Du hast Du gut gemacht? Und die meinten, ja, eigentlich suchen wir Fachinformatiker, aber wir sind alles Mediengestalter. Wir können keinen Fachinformatiker ausbilden. Deswegen würden wir dich als Mediengestalter ausbinden im Bereich Nonprint. Also man muss dazu sagen, ich glaub, die heißen, die Rollen heißen jetzt anders. Aber es gibt Print und Nonprint. Das heißt alles, was gedruckt wird. Und Nonprint ist eher so alles, was digital ist von Präsentation bis Webseiten und so was. Und die meinen, Du kannst Nonprint machen. Und wir würden schätzen, so 60, 70 Prozent ist Softwareentwicklung und alles andere ist im Bereich Design. Und dann dacht ich mir, okay, ich sag gar nicht verkehrt, so beide Welten vielleicht son bisschen kennenzulernen. Und dann hab ich das gemacht. Und bevor ich die Ausbildung angefangen hab, wurd ich dann ins Linuxhotel geschickt. Kennt ihr das? Mhm. Ich nicht. Ja, das ist das ist 'n Hotel, eigentlich ist das sone riesige Villa in in Essen auch. Und also der, der das organisiert hat, der hat einfach eine riesige Villa gebaut und hat, macht da Workshops. Und das heißt, Du Ach, der hat die, ich dacht, das sone alte Gründerzeitwille, die sieht immer so Also der hat die renoviert, ne. Also der hat das nicht grad als selber gebaut, also. Der hat das irgendwann übernommen und hat daraus irgendwie son riesige Villa gemacht, wo Du halt für eine Woche oder fürn Wochenende hin kannst und dann machst Du Workshops, machst Du zum Beispiel. Also ich hab Japan am Anfang kennengelernt. Ich bin da hingefahren, saß dann dafür, ich glaub, eine Woche sogar was oder 4 Tage und hab Java gelernt, hab Workshops gemacht. Und da waren ganz viele andere Leute auch da, die beispielsweise aus München kommen und die konnten dann in der Villa übernachten. Und da gibt's halt so in der Villa halt alles drum und dran. Also Du hast eine gute Zeit und Du lernst auch noch zusätzlich was. Und soweit ich weiß, sind da eigentlich größere Unternehmen immer wieder hingegangen, ihre Personal zu schulen. Deswegen dacht ich vielleicht, kennt ihr das? Du hast ja auch genickt, ne? Ja, ja, also Du kannst ja Du Du kannst ja die Geschichte irgendwie. Ich war nie selber da, weil ich so früh in meiner Karriere niemanden hatte, der das hätte für mich bezahlen können, wollen, wie auch immer. Aber das Linuxhotel, das war damals so, ich glaub, Dauerwerbeast so in den ganzen Foren und Computer Printmagazin und so was, was man so konsumiert hat. Also präsent war das halt schon. Okay. Die gibt's immer noch. Ich hab grad mal auf der Webseite geguckt. Ja, ich will will da Vogelsang oder so was, glaub ich, ne. Ja. Ja, es war ganz nett. Und da hab ich dann im Endeffekt angefangen, Java zu lernen. Ich muss dazu sagen, ich hatte, also warum die mich als Ausbildung, glaub ich, auch, also für die Ausbildung genommen haben, ich hab vorher an der Volkshochschule Java und c plus plus noch mal so Kurse gemacht, was in meinem CV natürlich zu haben. Aber also ihr wisst ja, wie das ist. Am Anfang, wenn man irgendwie 'n Java Kurs macht, man versteht eigentlich überhaupt nicht, was man da tut. Und sogar nach dem Kurs hab ich noch nicht richtig verstanden, was ich da tue. Das hat bei mir wirklich lange gedauert. Ich glaub, es hat son Jahr lang gedauert, bis ich wirklich verstanden hab, bis ich die Synapsen in meinem Gehirn gebildet haben, bis ich verstanden hab, was objektorientierte Programmierung ist und so. Also ich hab da echt lange gebraucht, aber ja, das war 'n Superteam. Ich hab recht viel von unterschiedlichen Seiten, unterschiedliche Aspekte einfach kennengelernt in von von diesem Team. Und Du hast dann aber doch noch mal, wenn ich das richtig gelesen hab, parallel noch mal studiert, ne? Ja. Weil Du das Studium so gut fand, ist das Erste. Ja. Ja, nicht unbedingt, aber also ich glaub, das ist auch vielleicht vom Familienhaus son bisschen drin, dass man immer gesagt hat, okay, Du musst studieren. Mhm. Und ich hatte irgendwie im Kopf, okay, und meine Schwester hatte auch studiert und ich hab mir überlegt, okay, Du hast jetzt eine Ausbildung. Ich war noch in in der Ausbildungsphase, die geht 3 Jahre normalerweise. Ich hatte verkürzt auf zweieinhalb. Und nach 2 Jahren, dadurch, dass ich das so gut verbinden konnte mit dem Praktischen und dem Theoretischen in der in der Schule, meinten meine Chefs damals, ja, die wollen auch noch mal studieren. Die waren so 10, 15 Jahre älter als ich. Die würden auch jetzt noch mal 'n Bachelor machen. Wollen wir das nicht zusammen machen? Und ich hab dann überlegt, ja, wo können wir das machen? Und dann gab's halt diese FOM in Essen, da gibt's deutschlandweit ist sone Fachhochschule, wo man nebenberuflich halt spielen kann. Mhm. Das heißt, man geht am Wochenende dahin. Und nach dem zweiten Jahr Ausbildung hab ich dann angefangen, auch das Studium anzufangen. Das war dann Bachelor im ersten Schritt und dann hab ich noch im Master hinterhergegangen. Also ich hab auch Medien- und Webinformatik am Anfang studiert und im Master ist dann eher Richtung Management, IT Management gegangen. War sehr anstrengend. Ich hatte auch eine Freundin während der Zeit. Ich weiß nicht, wie ich's gemacht hab, möcht ich sagen, weil Du bist ja am Wochenende halt auch irgendwie in der Uni die ganze Zeit. Mhm. Warum hat das Studieren im zweiten Durchlauf besser funktioniert als im ersten? Was also weil Du dann besser wusstest, was Du eigentlich wolltest oder weil das Studienangebot 'n besseres war oder weil Du mit anderen zusammen irgendwie hingegangen bist, was hat dich da durchgezogen? Ja, das waren mehrere Sachen. Also das eine war, glaub ich, dass ich son klarere Linie habe hatte, über was ich jetzt mache. Weil ich ich hab am Anfang ja Java gelernt und hab so das Technische und Backend Entwicklung und so was verstanden. Und ich hatte immer son gewisses Interesse, so dieses das große Ganze zu verstehen. Deswegen fand ich schon ganz cool, dass ich Programmierung verstanden hab, Design dann auch schon im in der Ausbildung drin hatte und verstanden hab, wie man so Frontends baut und gestaltet und Logos und und all so Themen waren halt irgendwie da auch immer da. Und dann hab ich immer mehr und mehr gesehen, okay, vieles, was ich jetzt irgendwie gelernt hab, das ist theoretisch in dem Studium da. Das heißt, ich hab da sehr gute Voraussetzungen einfach. Und mir fiel das leichter. Mir fiel das leichter, durch dieses praktische und theoretische gleichzeitig zu haben. Also als ich im Bachelorstudium angefangen hab, war ich ganz vielen schon voraus, ja. Und man muss dazu sagen, in der Fachhochschule ist es auch eher wie in der Schule so strukturiert. Du hast so ähnlich wie Stundenpläne, die für recht fix sind. Da kommst Du Also eigentlich sollst Du immer kommen, aber ist nicht verpflichtend. Bei der Uni ist ja eher so, dass es dass Du dir deinen Stundenplan selber zusammenstellst. Ja. Dadurch, dass das son bisschen mehr strukturierter war und ich auch Geld dafür gezahlt hab und ich mir gedacht hab, okay, da ist jetzt 'n gewisser Druck hinter, ich hab ich zahl dafür jeden Monat 300, 400 Euro von meinem kleinen, also was ist klein, aber war schon, war jetzt kein Großgehalt, dann hat man eine andere Motivation dahinter. Unverständlich. Wie lange bist Du dann bei dieser Firma geblieben und hast unter dem Deckmantel von Grafikdesign Software entwickelt? Ja, also man muss dazu sagen, es war nicht so richtig der Deckmantel, weil das Unternehmen war 'n PrePress Team, also son Druckvorstufe. Mhm. Das ist, bevor es bevor so Sachen in den Druck gehen gehen, wird das ja mit Adobe, Photoshop und so was alles vorbereitet, Layout. Okay, dann das sag ich ganz kurz zur Unterbrechung noch mal. Wenn wenn das das Hauptfeld der der Firma, warum haben die 'n Softwareentwickler gebraucht? Genau. Da komm ich jetzt drauf. Es war ein Großunternehmen, die beispielsweise damals für Einzel für Supermärkte diese Handflyer gemacht haben, wo dann drinsteht, welche Produkte beispielsweise drin sind. Und das war 'n recht großes europäisches Unternehmen, das heißt, die hatten sehr viele Aufträge. Und wenn Du so viele Aufträge hast und viele Bilder und viele PDF Dateien, die dann in den Druck gehen, brauchst Du Server. Und die haben eigene Server gehabt. Die haben komplett eigene Systeme gehabt, wo sehr viel IT nötig war. Und ja, da dadurch haben die irgendwann ein kleineres Unternehmen gegründet, was Mark 5 hieß. Das war, glaub ich, der Name war, glaub ich, orientiert an irgend 'nem Roboter oder so was. Ich ich kenn den Film leider nicht, aber das das war die Und in dem Team waren so 3, 4, 5 Leute, die haben im Bereich Digital Asset Management gearbeitet. Und ich war 1 davon. Digital Asset Management, das sind so riesige Multimedia Datenbanken. Kennt ihr, habt ihr schon begehrt, glaub ich, ne. Mhm. Ja. Genau. Und dadurch kam was halt zustande und ich hab sehr viel, also mit den Leuten hab hab ich 7 Jahre insgesamt zusammengearbeitet in unterschiedlichen Unternehmen, weil die irgendwann 'n eigenes gegründet haben und ich kurze Zeit danach mit drüber gegangen bin. Aber das war so das Feld, also Javaentwicklung, dicke Asset Management, große Multimedadaten Datenbank. Cool. Und wann und wie bist Du dann in deine erste Tech Rolle mit so wirklich Verantwortung für Menschen, für Projekte, für Ja. Alles andere gekommen? Also ich muss dazu sagen, ich ich hatte schon recht viel früh Verantwortung für Projekte. Nicht so sehr für Menschen, weil wir waren am Anfang, also was heißt Also das Team war, wir waren so 4 Personen. Im Endeffekt waren's 3 Geschäftsführer und ich. 1 war mehr fokussiert auf Sales und externe Sachen, der andere eher für die Entwicklung und eine Person für Design. Und ich konnte von all diesen 3 unterschiedlichen Sachen lernen. Und die Projekte, die wir damals hatten, ich erinner mich noch, es war gar nicht so, dass irgendwie oder oder, Grand and Backend, den Unterschied gab's gar nicht bei uns. Also Du warst irgendwie Mitarbeiter der IT und Du hast alles gemacht. Du warst dafür verantwortlich, das Frontend irgendwie zu gestalten und die Datenbankstruktur dahinter zu entwickeln. Das heißt, das ist ja jetzt erst so hochprofessionalisiert worden. Und zu dem Zeitpunkt war das gar nicht, deswegen hatt ich schon viel Eigenverantwortung für gewisse Projekte, wurd immer geführt. Und so richtig mit Mitarbeiter, das ist eigentlich erst dann passiert, als ich das Team verlassen hab und nach meinem Studium nach Berlin gezogen bin. Was hat dich nach Berlin gezogen? War das so die klassische Start-up Goldgräberstimmung oder wie bist Du da hingekommen? Ey, würd ich nicht sagen. Also ich war gar nicht im ersten Schritt in Start ups. Ich hatte meinen Masterstudien fertig und dachte mir, okay, ich hab jetzt so lange fünfeinhalb Jahre nebenberuflich studiert und jetzt willst Du ja irgendwie was davon haben, bisschen mehr Geld verdienen. Und ich hatte ein, 2 Workshops gegeben für Unternehmen in Berlin und die fronten mich so toll und haben gefragt, ob ich nicht für die arbeiten möchte. Und gleichzeitig war hatt ich ein, 2 Freunde, die in Berlin von einem Jahr dann irgendwie nach Berlin gezogen sind, da angefangen haben zu arbeiten. Und die hatten eine Fünfer WG und da waren Zimmer frei und das hat sich so irgendwie natürlich ergeben, würd ich würd ich sagen. Also es ging gar nicht darum so unbedingt, ich müsste jetzt in die Start ups hier eintauchen. Die ersten Unternehmen waren auch gar keine Start ups. Was waren die ersten Unternehmen für Unternehmen? Also so Größe, Branche, wie wie bist Du da so durchgekommen? Ja. Also das erste Unternehmen war sone Gruppe. Das war, gab's mehrere Unternehmen. Ich war in einem der Subunternehmen drin. Aber das Hautunternehmen, das hieß Maschine und die haben gemacht. Kennt ihr das? Das sagt mir, mit Pferden zu tun? Ja, genau. Das ist so diese Pferdeshow. Ja. Ich war da ich war da schon mal. Echt? Sehr gut. Ja. Ja, das ist diese Pferdeshow im Endeffekt, die, also die heißen jetzt anders, glaub ich, die europaweit getourt sind. Und die haben halt auch Subunternehmen gehabt, die sich so mit IT- und Psychografiethemen beschäftigt haben. Das heißt, die haben, sagt euch mal ja was, so Persönlichkeitstest, genau. So was haben die gemacht, aber visuell basiert. Also nicht fragen basiert. Okay. Sondern die haben das visuell gemacht, sodass Du halt nicht direkt aus der Frage schließen kann kannst und das nicht manipulieren kannst. Und das war recht interessant und die haben das für Werbung eingesetzt. Das heißt, wenn Du die, also hat man das genannt. Wenn Du jetzt, keine Ahnung, Du gehst auf irgend 'n E-Commerce-Seite und schaust dir 'n Nike Schuh an und gehst nachher auf Spiegel d e oder so was und dann siehst Du den Schuh auf einmal da wieder. Das ist ja kein Persönlichkeitsprofil angezeigt wird. Das heißt, wenn Du zum Beispiel sehr detailliert 'n detaillierter Typ bist, dann haben die dir eher Details angezeigt. Und wenn Du eher jemand bist, der so das große Ganze sehen will, dann haben die das vielleicht gezeigt, wie der Schuh jemand den Schuh anhält und grade am Laufen ist. Solche Themen haben lieb ich gemacht und ich durfte an dem System mitentwickeln. Interessant, Interessant. Wie ging deine Reise durch Berlin weiter? Genau, also ich war da Softwareentwickler und da hatt ich auch noch keine Beantwortung für Mitarbeiter. Da fing's dann an, also die nächste Station, das war ein Unternehmen, das ist aus dem deutschen Forschungszentrum für künstliche Intelligenz entstanden. Das war 'n Spin off. Und da saßen 'n paar clevere Leute zusammen, die sich in 'nem Bereich schon, also mit AI Technologien neuronalen Netzen irgendwie beschäftigt haben. Und die brauchen Softwareentwickler und haben das für den Bereich gemacht. Und im gibt's auch, also Immobilienbranche. Da gibt's auch den Begriff Asset Management Systeme. Und da ging's darum, dass digital Und da hast Du gedacht, das hab ich schon mal gemacht. Und dann hab ich hab ich haben wurd mir das gepitcht und ich dachte, ja, Digital Asset Management kenn ich, ja. Und dann haben die auch gedacht, das ist das Gleiche. Ist aber natürlich was ganz anderes, ne. Aber trotzdem haben die gemerkt, ich hab viel Erfahrung mit PDF Dokumenten und so weiter und so fort. Und Asset Management, da geht's oft Verträge. Und Verträge sind in PDF abgebildet, deswegen hat das schon sehr gut gepasst. Ist aber eine andere, ist Industrie einfach. Das ist cool. Ja. Genau. Also das heißt, Du hattest, wann wann war das so ungefähr? In in welchen Jahren, Jahrzehnten sind wir da jetzt grad unterwegs? 2013 bin ich nach Berlin gekommen und dann 2015 bin ich zum zu dem, also Level nicht das Unternehmen, das Spin off. Okay, das war ja doch relativ früh noch im im Vergleich zu dem jetzigen AI Boom. Ja. Also wir haben uns sehr früh mit AI beschäftigt, das stimmt. Also was was da vielleicht passiert ist und auch vielleicht die Erfahrung, die ich dann da gesammelt hab, die war, glaub ich, sehr prägend. Weil es war 'n Start up Szenario und wir waren 'n sehr kleines Team. Also ich war, glaub ich, der zweite oder dritte Mitarbeiter, der angestellt wurde. Und es gab einen CTO, der Florian Kuhlmann heißt der, der war sehr gut im Bereich AI und hatte ein, 2 Researcher dabei. Und die haben im Endeffekt sich mit beschäftigt, also. Das ist so das, das sind so die Grundlagen im Endeffekt von von AI, kann man sagen, von neuronalen Netzen. Und die haben das damals, also damals gab's ja noch keinen und all so was. Sondern die haben das damals selber entwickelt, haben eigene Strukturen entwickelt, eigene entwickelt und haben dann überlegt, okay, das muss ja irgendwie skalieren. Weil also der deren Idee war zu sagen, wir haben ganz viele Unternehmen, riesige Immobilienunternehmen, die haben Immobilien überall in der Welt und möchten irgendwie eine Übersicht über ihr Portfolio haben. Und das kannst Du halt eigentlich nur rauskriegen, wenn Du diese Verträge dir anschaust. Und das ist sehr teuer. Das heißt, Du musst das in den Anwalt schicken und dann muss der Anwalt das durchlesen und schreibt dir dann manuell raus, wer ist der Mieter, wer Vermieter und wie viel Gold kostet das? Ja. Und das konntest Du mit dem System machen. Das heißt, das System hat die PDF Dokumente mit OCR Technologie ausgelesen und dann, also beziehungsweise Klassifizierung am Anfang gemacht und dann, herauszufinden, okay, das ist der Name des Landlords, das ist der Name des Vermieters und so weiter und so fort. Wie muss ich mir so was in der praktischen alltäglichen Zusammenarbeit vorstellen, wo Du grad sagst, na ja, Du kamst jetzt aus soner sehr pragmatischen Softwareentwicklungswelt, sag ich mal, ja. Und jetzt arbeitet er zusammen mit Leuten, die eher ausm Researchfeld vielleicht noch kommen. Wie was was für Unterschiede tun sich da so auf in der Zusammenarbeit? Was muss man da vielleicht auch überbrücken mal? Ja, also man hat schon gemerkt, dass also der Florian selber, der war eigentlich 'n ganz guter Softwareentwickler. Der war noch besser in dem Research Thema, würd ich sagen. Und man hat schon gemerkt, dass dass die Researcher nicht so sehr, also Designpatterns oder so kennen die nicht, ne. Oder also Dokumentation oder Variablen gut zu benennen und solche Sachen, das war schon schwierig oder auch Tests oder so was zu schreiben. Das heißt, da gab's dann schon irgendwie Probleme. Und meine Aufgabe war es, denen dabei zu helfen, dass sie eine entwickeln, die ich dann in einem Produkt skalieren kann. Ja, also ich hab die ich hab im Endeffekt die Engine geschrieben als Webservice. Aber das, was die gemacht haben auf Ebene, das war wirklich sehr dediziert und klein gedacht. Und ich musste einfach sichergehen, dass die das in 'ner Form bauen, dass das dennoch skalierbar ist. Ja. Und wie viel in diesem Unterschied in der Zusammenarbeit war son, ich sag mal, son son Skill Gap vielleicht einfach, ja? Weil für die einen ist halt Programmierung die Hauptaufgabe, für die anderen ist es nur Mittel zum Zweck. Ja. Und wie viel war aber auch, boah, ich ich will da jetzt niemanden beleidigen, ne, aber son Verständnis fürs Business halt auch. Weil ich kann mir vorstellen, wenn Du aus 'ner Research Ecke kommst, in sone Firma reinkommst, dann ist ja so, ne, am Ende profitabel sein und son Produkt auf die Straße bringen und so. Das ja jetzt nicht so das Mindset, mit dem Du die letzten paar Jahre an der Uni wahrscheinlich unterwegs warst. Ja. Und und wie finden findet man da so zusammen? Ja. Oder ist das überhaupt gar kein Problem und ich unterstell hier einfach nur was, ne? Ich weiß nicht. Nee, also bei uns war's nicht son großes Problem, weil wir die Verantwortlichkeiten recht klar definiert hatten. Also Okay. Der Researcher ist gar nicht so auf die Idee gekommen, irgendwie jetzt Produkteentscheidungen treffen zu wollen oder so was. Der war zwar einbezogen und der hat das auch mit verstanden, aber es war schon recht klar organisiert. Und das hat der damalige CTO auch sehr gut gemacht. Also vor allem in diesem kleinen Szenario wird das ja gut organisiert. Mhm. Es wurd 'n bisschen schwieriger, als es größer geworden ist, aber das ist, glaub ich, auch normal. Mhm. Ja. Also zumindest seh ich das immer. Okay. Okay. Und wie lange bist Du da geblieben und warum bist Du heute nicht mehr da? Ja, also ich ich war ich war 3 Jahre da. Und in der Zeit bin ich, nach einem Jahr ungefähr bin ich Director of Engineering geworden, weil wir sind recht stark gewachsen. Ich hab diese entwickelt, die war recht hoch skalierbar. Da fing das auch immer mehr an, in AWS, also in die Cloud zu ziehen. Und wir hatten internationale Kunden. Es gab 'n Office in London, 1 in New York. Und meine Aufgaben haben sich sehr stark dann verändert. Also ich war dann irgendwann nicht mehr dafür verantwortlich, die Engine zu entwickeln, sondern meine Aufgabe war irgendwie, 30 Mitarbeiter zu führen. Und da bin ich 'n bisschen ins kalte Wasser gesprungen, hab auch bestimmt viele Sachen falsch gemacht. Aber auf die Frage noch mal zu antworten, also 3 Jahre bin ich geblieben. Das Unternehmen wurd, ich glaub, 2019, glaub ich, verkauft in die USA. Und ich bin 2018 rausgegangen. Und zwar war es so, dass es sich schon sehr stark verändert hatte. Also kulturell war das sehr, sehr anders geworden. Und es gab 'n gewissen Druck von Investoren auch, wo ich dann auch irgendwann gemerkt hab, okay, ich komm hier nicht weiter. Und ja, das war eigentlich der Hauptgrund, dass ich gemerkt hab, okay, man kommt hier nicht weiter. Aber trotzdem hat sich ja da schon für dich gezeigt, zumindest impliziert das dein Lebenslauf ja so, dass so dieses dieses Leadershipp Thema schon was ist, was dich interessiert. Also vielleicht war die Umgebung nicht mehr die richtige, aber die die Rolle ja irgendwie schon. Ja. Ja, schon. Aber das das hatt ich sogar schon während der Ausbildung. Also meine damaligen Chefs, die haben sich damals schon immer irgendwie so mit unterschiedlichen Sachen beschäftigt. Und das hab ich auch von denen gelernt. Also nicht nur irgendwie sich mit den technischen Sachen zu beschäftigen, sondern auch zu schauen, wie Organisationen funktionieren, wie kann man gut zusammenarbeiten? Auch so Managementmethoden und solche Sachen. Das hatt ich schon recht früh und auch 'n recht frühes Interesse daran. Ich konnt's und deswegen hab ich ja auch Management studiert im Endeffekt. Ich konnt's halt nie so richtig einsetzen und da war's so die erste Zeit, wo ich's dann auch für dich einsetzen konnte. Mhm. Mhm. Und wenn Du dann gesagt hast, okay, die Umgebung hat nicht mehr gepasst, wie hast Du die nächste richtige Umgebung für dich gefunden? Ja, durch Ausprobieren. Also, weil weil es war jetzt nicht so, dass ich dann gesagt hab, okay, jetzt weiß ich genau, was ich machen will, sondern es gab dann, ich hatte mehrere Stationen dann, wo ich dann CTO war für ungefähr ein Jahr und dann schauen musste, wie ich das wie ich das hinbekomme in 'ner anderen Unternehmen, ob das ähnlich ist, ob die meine Skills auch benötigen. Und das hat sich oft herausgestellt, dass das was anderes ist. Weil wenn Du wenn Du beispielsweise als Softwareentwickler in die Rolle von der Führungskraft reinwächst, dann ist das 'n irgendwie 'n natürlicher Prozess. Alle akzeptieren das, alle sehen das. Wenn Du überhaupt von außen jetzt reinkommst und da gibt's schon irgendwie 10 Mitarbeiter, dann denken die sich, ah, okay, wer ist er denn jetzt, ne. Also das ist dann son bisschen eigenartig, da jetzt auch wenn man eine neue Person ist, die jetzt auch wenn man irgendwie vielleicht den Ton angeben soll. Und wenn Du dann so der Typ bist, der dann sagt, okay, jetzt machen wir alles anders, dann funktioniert das halt nicht lange. Das hab ich nicht jetzt gemacht in dem Fall, ne. Aber ich hab schon gemerkt, dass das nicht so richtig das ist, was ich mir wünsche, weil ich nicht frei entscheiden konnte. Also das, was ich zum Beispiel in meiner ersten Zeit als in der Ausbildung und auch in dem ersten Start-up, wo ich gearbeitet hab, ich hatte recht viele Freiheiten. Ich konnte frei entscheiden, das ist das, was ich immer mir gewöhnt hab. Und in den anderen Unternehmen war's dann immer so, Du warst dann der Dienstleister IT und musst Du liefern. Und Du warst auch irgendwie nicht die Person, die irgendwie mit einbezogen wurde in die Businessentscheidung, sondern es hieß, ja, ja, mach das mal jetzt im Endeffekt. Und das hat mir halt irgendwann hab ich gemerkt, okay, das ist nicht das, was ich mir, wie ich mir das vorstelle. Wie bist Du an die unterschiedlichen Jobs damals gekommen? Also waren, hast Du dich da irgendwie, hast Du, waren das immer Bekanntschaften, Freunde? War das einfach irgendwie Bewerbungen oder war das 'n Netzwerk, wo Du dann drin warst oder so was? Waren so, wie konntest Du verschiedene Rollen als als CTO ausprobieren? Das waren immer. Also es es gibt, glaub ich, keinen, der irgendjemanden aufs Ziel Level reinlässt, ohne dass man irgendwie die Person schon son bisschen kennt oder irgendwie Also hab ich zumindest sehr selten gesehen. Bei mir war alles die Opposition, die ich hatte. Das war, vorher gab's da 'n Mitarbeiter, der vorher mit mir zusammengearbeitet hat und der wusste, wie ich die Organisationsstruktur in 'nem anderen Unternehmen aufgebaut hab. Und der gesagt hat, okay, Paymann hat das sehr gut in dem Team gemacht. Der kann das bei uns machen. Wir sind, haben die gleiche Challenge. Wir sind jetzt auch irgendwie 30 Mitarbeiter, wir müssen auf 50 an wachsen in den nächsten ein, 2 Jahren und dann haben die mich dazu geholt. Mhm. Ich überleg grad, ich hab das, glaub ich, auch noch nie anders erlebt auf dem Level, dass so wirklich, weiß ich nicht, ob der Bewerbungsprozess oder? Ja, es gibt ja schon, also das, was schon da hier und da, was wir auch, glaub ich, hier schon mal im Podcast hatten, dass es halt explizite Recruiter gibt, ne, die schon auch auf der Ebene das nur machen und da ein Aber das ist ja zumindest sone Proxyempfehlung, weil dann hörst Du ja zumindest auf deinen Recruiter. Ja. So, ne. Klar. Also ja, dass sie einfach ausgeschrieben ist, ist, glaub ich, nicht so häufig. Ich glaub, im öffentlichen Dienst geht das. Also da Da musst Du's ja. Also da, die sind ja dazu verpflichtet, das das zu machen. Aber so, selbst wenn es jetzt jemand war, der nicht schon mit Ziel Level Erfahrung gekommen ist, dann war's meistens so. Ich hab mit dem mal in 'ner vorherigen Rolle zusammengearbeitet, als wir beide noch, Mhm. Ne, weiß nicht, auf 'nem Senior- oder Head of irgendwas Level waren. Jetzt mach ich hier meine Firma und hätt ihn gerne als mein CTO, CFO, was auch immer so. Ja. Ja. Ich kann das auch verstehen, warum das so ist. Also man braucht ja viel Vertrauen, jemanden auf dem Labor reinzulassen. Deswegen gehen die Gespräche auch so lange. Also wenn ich jetzt, ich ich stell ja selber auch teilweise, wenn ich in Unternehmen zurzeit reingeh, CTOs ein, die mich dann replacen. Aber auch damals war's halt immer so, die dauern 3 bis 6 Monate manchmal die Gespräche, weil man sich will sich ja schon irgendwie sicher sein, dass das gut funktioniert. Ja. Dann dann, ich glaub, das haben wir am Anfang ja eigentlich gesagt, das sagen wir sonst am Anfang zumindest. Geh mal 'n kurzen Hinweis darauf, was machst Du denn eigentlich heute? Ja. Was ich heute mache so hab ich auch grad gesagt. Muss ich noch ranschneiden. Was ist die Belohnung für alle Hörerinnen, die jetzt für 10 Minuten dabei geblieben sind, ohne zu wissen, auf was sie sich eingelassen haben? Ja, also dadurch, dass ich dass ich bei bei dem ersten Start-up so diese Erfahrungen gemacht hab, wie man selber in die Rolle reinwächst und was für organisatorische Wachstumsschmerzen man so hat, haben mich danach eigentlich immer wieder einzelne Start up Freunde gefragt, okay, hast Du 'n Tipp für uns? Und denen hab ich das am Anfang für mich umsonst irgendwie erzählt, wie ich das gemacht hab. Und irgendwann kamen Leute auf mich zu, die kannte ich nicht. Und dann dacht ich mir, okay, da kann ich auch Geld für verlangen. Und dann hat sich das son bisschen so natürlich entwickelt, dass ich immer mehr in sone Richtung Beratung, Coaching, Interim, CTO Rollen so in die Richtung entwickelt hab. Und das mach ich jetzt seit 5 Jahren. Dann ist ja gut, dass wir vorher schon mal gesprochen hatten und wir uns quasi kannten, bevor wir diesen Podcast angefangen haben. Sonst müssten wir jetzt auch noch zahlen hier. Wie wie muss ich mir das vorstellen, Coaching auf soner Ebene? Von von wem geht da der der Erstkontakt irgendwie aus? Also wer sucht dich? Ja. Ich mach's mal an einem Beispiel. Ich war, es gab 'n Start-up in Berlin, das wurd von, also ist ja öffentlich auch. Die heißen oder hießen Data, auch Immobiliensektor, weil das so, wenn Du einmal im Immobiliensektor erfolgreich warst, kommen alle aus dem gleichen Bereich und wollen auch. Und die wurden von Moody's in den USA eingekauft. Mhm. Also sie haben gekauft. Und da ging's darum, sich Einzelgliedern und in das IT System von denen Und die hatten sehr guten, also das Start-up hat einen sehr guten VP of Engineering. Und der war aber sehr techgy, also der war sehr tief in der Programmierung noch drin und hat eigentlich Vorsicht die gehabt, die ich jetzt in der Vergangenheit hatte, mehr in diese organisatorische Rolle reinzuwachsen. Und der musste irgendwann mit dem CEO von Moody sprechen. Und die anderen, also die die Partner von dem Start-up, die dachten, okay, wir brauchen halt irgendjemanden, der ihn darauf vorbereitet. Und dann haben wir so ein, 2 Jahre 'n Coaching gemacht. Das heißt, wir haben uns alle ein, 2 Wochen getroffen, Sessions gemacht. Ich hab Workshops mit ihm gegeben, ihm akut bei gewissen Sachen einfach zu helfen. Aber ihm auch selber sone Perspektive zu geben, in welche Richtung er sich entwickeln könnte. Und das waren oft so technische Sachen, aber meistens sind's auch irgendwie ganz normale Sachen, die man so im Umgang mit Mitarbeitern und so was auch irgendwie, also Probleme da zu besprechen und solche Sachen. Und das hat, also mir hat das viel Spaß gemacht und er ist irgendwann dann, wenn ich mich richtig erinnere, hätte auf geworden dann irgendwo dies. Mhm. Mhm. So. Warum ich frag, ist, weil ich mir so Consulting auf auf C-Level Ebene schwierig vorstelle, weil grade in kleineren oder jüngeren Firmen natürlich so das sehr an einzelnen Personen hängt, ja. Die die ganze Firma, der der Erfolg, das Vertrauen in die Firmaeien, auch von den Mitarbeitern und so was, ja. Und dann ja natürlich sie sich Hilfesuchen, ganz schnell falsch gelesen werden kann als Hilfe brauchen, überfordert sein, nicht mehr weiterkommen und so weiter, ja. Und da stell ich mir schon vor, dass es da sone gewisse Hemmschwelle gibt, son Angebot dann irgendwie zu suchen, in Anspruch zu nehmen und so weiter, weil ja Reputation da schon irgendwie kritisch ist in soner Phase. Ja, das stimmt völlig. Also in dem Fall war's einigermaßen, also da da war das Problem gar nicht so groß. Weil das Management hat hat das initiiert. Und da hätte der VP schon das Gefühl haben können, okay, die vertrauen mir nicht, dass ich das hinbekomme. Ja, zum Beispiel, ne. Aber er hatte er hatte selber, glaub ich, interne Gespräche mit denen vorher und hat sich das, glaub ich, auch gewünscht. Also er war waren die ja auch in trockenen Tüchern nach soner Übernahme, ja. Aber wenn wir jetzt auf soner freien Marktsituation unterwegs sind, dann ist das vielleicht auch noch mal was anderes, oder? Ich mein, weiß nicht, wie wie kommst Du sonst zu deinen anderen Klienten? Also das Coachingszenario, das mach ich nicht so oft. Okay. Meistens meistens, also am liebsten mach ich wirklich Beratung als Externer, so als Sprengtspartner. Aber das, was am, was schon häufig vorkommt, ist so internen CTO Rollen und das sind halt Feuerwehrmann Situationen. Das heißt, es brennt wirklich grade, der jetzige CTO ist aus einem Grund nicht mehr da. Oder man weiß, dass er kurz, dass dass er wegfallen wird. Manchmal auch Elternzeit einfach nur. Aber da musst Du dann wirklich reinspringen und tiefer auch mit dem Unternehmen arbeiten. Und die Szenarien, da gibt's eigentlich dann, weil der ehemalige C-Dur ist ja dann nicht mehr da, deswegen hast Du das Problem in dem Fall nicht so. Da hast Du eher das Problem, das bestehende Team davon zu überzeugen, dass Du eine gute Wahl bist für diese Zeit. Und in dem Szenario such ich dann auch oft zukünftige CTOs. Also ich mach das auch mit Recruiter. Ich mach das nicht komplett selber, aber dass so das Szenario dann oft. Wie ist das? Wie wie muss ich mir das vorstellen, wenn Du irgendwo reinkommst und schon mit soner begrenzten Verweildauer ja quasi das von vornherein klar ist, ja? Wie schafft man das dann trotzdem, da Vertrauen aufzubauen? Weil ja natürlich der zynische Betrachter sagen kann so, ja, der der der Perman, der kommt ja an und der erzählt mir irgendwas, aber in 18 Monaten ist er wieder weg und der kann ja gar kein langfristiges intrinsisches Interesse haben. Verstehst Du, was ich mein? Ja. Also ich ich geh rein in die Sachen und versuch jeden eigentlich klar zu machen, dass für jeden, was da drin ist, wenn wir das jetzt zusammen zusammen jetzt einfach stemmen für die nächsten 6 Monate beispielsweise. Und es gibt auch schon so gewisse Ziele, auf die irgendwie erreicht werden sollen. Die sind im Start up Bereich oft verändern die sich auch. Aber eigentlich will man ja immer Verbesserungen erzielen. Und ich erarbeite das meistens mit den, also eigentlich immer mit den Teams zusammen, weil anders geht das gar nicht. Du kannst das nicht top down irgendwie entscheiden. Vor allem, wenn Du externer bist und gar nicht so tief in der Materie bist. Du brauchst ja die Expertise von den Leuten, die irgendwie schon 4, 5 Jahre dran arbeiten. Das heißt, ich mach oft so am Anfang ja, so Art Workshop, wo alle zusammenkommen und Also ich hab das früher immer so genannt, was würdest Du machen, wenn Du der CTO bist? Und jeder kommt halt mit den Ideen die Ecke, was man sich vorstellt, was man gern machen würde. Und dadurch schafft man eigentlich recht offen zu sehen, okay, was denken die einzelnen Leute, was für Probleme, was ich vielleicht aufn ersten Blick auch nicht gesehen hätte, dann irgendwie gemeinsam eine Strategie und eine Roadmap aufzustellen für die nächsten 6 Monate, was realistisch ist und dann deren Commitment auch zu haben. Wie fix hängst Du so an einem Modell oder an 1 Art von Unternehmensstruktur, Führung, wie Dev Teams aufgebaut sind und und hältst das so für das Richtige oder wie flexibel muss man sein? Weil ich stell mir so vor, ne, Du hast irgendwie Erfahrung, Du hast verschiedene Jahre irgendwie deinen deinen deinen Lebenslauf, den wir jetzt gehört haben, gehabt. Und also bei mir ist es vielleicht anders, ich hab nicht besonders viel gesehen. Ich bin jetzt seit 15 Jahren beim gleichen Unternehmen und ne und trotzdem, also haben sich ja Dinge etabliert und ich würde auch sagen, bei uns viele Dinge, die sehr gut gelaufen sind und das ist ja dann irgendwie 'n Modell, was man im Kopf hat, wo man sagt so, ne, das ist 1, was funktioniert. Und das würde gerne man irgendwie so auf dann andere stülpen und sagen, damit muss es ja auch funktionieren. Also ist es praktisch, hast Du so ein ein Set an funktionierenden, für dich funktionierendem System? Sagst Du sagst, okay, in dieser Größe mit den Herausforderungen so, das sind die Lösungen dafür? Oder ist es eher, dass Du sagst, na ja, wichtiger ist es, da anzufangen, wo das Unternehmen ist und darauf basierend oder das weiterzutragen? Ja. Ja. Also beides. Ich hab natürlich 'n gewisses Set an Methoden, die man nutzen kann. Also ihr kennt das ja alles selber wahrscheinlich. Das Spotify File Modell mit und so was, Scrum, Kanban Methoden und so was. Das kann man alles nutzen, aber final kommt's im Endeffekt drauf an, ob das Team das auch umsetzen möchte und da daran glaubt. Weil dass das alle, also Du kannst die beste Methode aufsetzen, wenn das Team keine Lust hat, da so zu arbeiten, dann passiert das nicht. Deswegen versuch ich oft, auch Sachen zu kombinieren und das in Format aufzustellen, sodass das Team das selber erarbeitet. Ich glaub, das ist auch der Grund, warum niemand so strikt nach Scrum beispielsweise arbeitet. Das ist halt einfach, es gibt einfach gewisse Bedürfnisse, die in Teams da sind, wo man sich nicht so strikt an so gewisse Modelle einfach halten kann. Und ich versuch, das sehr individuell zu machen, jedem den Fragen zu geben. Und greifst Du typischerweise eine Seite? Also bist Du eher auf der Seite der Entwickler*innen und sagst so, okay, ne, ich gucke nach dem und versuche das von mir aus auch auf auf Sea Ebene irgendwie durchzudrücken oder die die Perspektive zu teilen? Oder sagst Du, nee, Unternehmen oder Unternehmenskultur ist so stark auch geprägt von, ja, den Gründern oder den der der den Ziel Levelpositionen, da sich auch eher darauf hören muss, was dort gewünscht ist, wie sich das, wie wir es strukturieren wollen? Also ich glaub, sich auf eine Seite zu stellen, ist meistens eigentlich der falsche Weg. Weil wenn man das macht, ist ja die andere Seite im Endeffekt dann stark benachteiligt. Deswegen versuch ich eigentlich immer, sich über die Brücke zu schlagen und die Kommunikation zwischen diesen Bereichen auch zu machen. Das ist nicht nur unbedingt Business und Technologie, sondern auch oft auch schon Produkt- und Technologieentwicklung. Im besten Fall geht das Hand in Hand, aber das ist oft nicht der Fall. Da gibt's manchmal einfach unterschiedliche Abteilungen, die das komplett machen und ist gar so integriert. Und das heißt, ich versuch das eigentlich immer auf beiden Seiten zu vermitteln. Und man schafft das ganz gut, wenn man die Business Goals daran anknüpft und das erklärt den den Leuten, die in der IT arbeiten, damit klarer wird, wofür die eigentlich arbeiten und warum man gewisse Sachen einfach versucht zu erzählen. Du hast so grad 'n wichtigen Punkt angesprochen mit dem Brücken bauen. Und Du bist ja, wenn Du quasi extern in son Unternehmen reinkommst, immer erst mal in der Position, dich einarbeiten zu müssen. So, das eine natürlich technisch und in in das Produkt und da können wir bestimmt auch gleich noch mal drüber sprechen, was da so Strategien sind. Das andere ist ja aber menschlich. Also ich war nur einmal in meinem Leben in soner WPCTO Rolle. Und ich muss sagen, ich hab da massiv von profitierter Zeit mit dem Unternehmen mitgewachsen bin. Du kennst die die die Mitgründer, Du kennst die die Leute, die irgendwie die anderen Teams auch leiten und so was alles. Und das ist ja, also hat bei mir zumindest maßgeblich dafür den Erfolg zu beigetragen, ja. Jetzt kommt man ja extern in son Unternehmen rein und hat genau diese Beziehung ja eben nicht. Mhm. So, wie wie gelingt einem dann das Brückenbauen und wie nähert man sich so Menschen an, wenn man das mit dem Fuß aufm Gaspedal machen muss? Ja. Also so ganz ohne Referenz komm ich ja meistens nicht rein. Das heißt, es gibt schon irgendwie jemanden, der mich empfohlen hat und der dann Also wenn Du jemanden empfiehlst, heißt das ja, ich vertrau der Person. Und meistens ist das jemand ausm Management, wo dann gewisse Basis Vertrauenswürdigkeit da ist. Und dann remote find ich's schwierig, ja. Aber oft ist es halt dann auch so, dass wenn Sie 'n Office haben, ich sehr oft im Office bin. Also ich versuch wirklich dann immer da zu sein und die Leute kennenzulernen. Und was ich denen oft auch die ersten Schritte mache, ist sone Bestandsaufnahme. Also es ist son bisschen wie eine Tech Dudeligence. Mhm. Ich nenn's eher Healthcheck, einfach tief zu verstehen, wie in welchem Stadium ist eigentlich die Abteilung Produkt und Technologie. Und basierend darauf dann zu entscheiden, was sind jetzt die nächsten Schritte, die man eigentlich machen müsste für die nächsten 6 bis 8, 9 Monate? Und in diesem Health Check Szenario interview ich viele. Also ich sprech mit vielen und da lernt man sich kennen, man geht gemeinsam zu Mittag. Ab und zu gibt's Events in den Unternehmens, wo ich dann auch versuch, dabei zu sein. Und so kommt man eigentlich dazu, dass da 'n gewisses Vertrauen da ist. Und die Leute fragen mich ja auch, was hast Du vorher gemacht? Was hast Du vorher gearbeitet? Was für Projekte hast Du entwickelt? Und eine gewisse Erfahrung hab ich. Und da, das sorgt dafür, dass die Leute dann auch sagen, okay, der hat schon mal so was schon in der Vergangenheit gemacht. Und ich kann davon auch profitieren und mich zum Beispiel auch weiterentwickeln. Letztes Mal gab's zum Beispiel einen, der wollte auch CTO werden, der war noch Softwareentwickler und hat mich dann auch intensiver gefragt, in welchen welchen Pfad er einschlagen könnte, wie er's machen könnte. Und ich glaub, so was ist schon interessant für Entwickler. Wenn Du jetzt so in verschiedenste Teams gehst, dann dann siehst Du ja auch irgendwie für sehr unterschiedliche Konstellationen, wie die Leute irgendwie zusammenarbeiten und würdest Du wirklich sagen, die die Probleme, die in den Unternehmen existieren, die sind sehr individuell oder ist das irgendwie doch immer son Einheitsbrei und sagt so, na, wenn man die Stellschraube hat, die sei überall die gleiche und dann dann hat man irgendwie die Lösung für, wie das Team besser werden kann. Mhm. Also auf dem ersten Blick sind die immer recht identisch, die Probleme. Und aufm zweiten Blick, wenn man detaillierter reingeht, merkt man dann schon, dass es schon irgendwie 'n anderes Business ist und die Probleme irgendwie anders gehandhabt werden müssen. Also es ist schon sehr individuell aus meiner Sicht. Aber ausm ersten Blick ist es einfach, wo man denkt, okay, ist einfach 'n strukturelles Problem. Es gab zum Beispiel ein Team, das hatte irgendwie 15 Mitarbeiter und eine Person hat die geführt, wo ich mir dachte, okay, ich wunder mich jetzt nicht, warum das nicht funktioniert. Ja. Aber die Leute wissen das einfach nicht. Also weil die die Erfahrung einfach vorher nicht gemacht haben und sich auch denken, okay cool, ich hab 15 Mitarbeiter kann ich jetzt anleiten. Aber merk dann erst später, okay, 15 Mitarbeiter haben Bedürfnisse, die wollen mit dir sprechen, die wollen one 9 Gespräche haben. Und wenn ich 14 Dark Reports hab, dann bin ich jeden Tag in Meetings und hab keine Zeit für irgendwas anderes mehr. Und ja, dann fängt man dann an zu sagen, okay, lass uns das mal anders strukturieren. Was lachst Du so gern? Ich ich hatte mal übergangsweise sone Situation mit 16 Leuten. Weil mir ein Ich dachte, ich dachte, ich hab Nee, weil mir son Teamlead mal ausgefallen war, dann hab ich das kurzfristig mit übernommen. Und da bist Du schon, also da ist deine Woche im Prinzip gelaufen. So, so. Ja. Ich hatte das auch. Ich hatte 13 direct Reports und man kommt zu nichts anderes. Also Du lernst, morgens gehst Du rein, machst Meetings one on ons und am Freitag bist Du abends wieder raus. Also das war schon 'n bisschen, also ist auch frustrierend für einen selber, find ich, weil man dann irgendwie gar nicht das Gefühl hat, dass man effektiv ist. Und ich muss auch sagen, ich find so one on one und und diese Art von Gesprächen und was da so ad hoc alles passiert, auch anstrengender. Ich mein das gar nicht abwertend für die Leute, weil sie jetzt mit ihrem Problem zu mir kommen oder so. Aber ich find das schwieriger, als wenn ich jetzt einen Tag lang nur Produktmeetings oder Technical Review oder wo Du halt son bisschen mehr weißt, ne, was erwartet dich da? Was wird von dir erwartet? Was kannst Du beitragen? Da da ist so so alles 'n bisschen vorgegebener und in gelenkteren Bahnen. Und in in so oder Skip Level one on onons so was, da kann ja alles passieren. So, da da kommst Du rein und da ist Wundertüte, wenn Du reinkommst so, ja. Und das fand ich immer son bisschen schlauchender so am Ende des Tages, was so das persönliche Energielevel angeht einfach. Ja. Das stimmt. Und also ich glaub, das liegt auch daran, wenn Du so viele hast, kannst Du nicht so nah an den Leuten sein. Also wenn Du 'n kleineres Team hast, dann sprichst Du ja täglich eigentlich miteinander. Und man merkt dann, glaub ich, auch wenn irgendwie 'n Problem da ist, viel früher und man braucht gar nicht warten, bis jetzt das One on One Meeting irgendwie ansteht. Ja. Ja. Okay. Jetzt haben wir über über Teams gesprochen. Vielleicht noch mal auf die Frage, die ich eben gestellt hab. Du musstest ja nicht nur mit den Leuten irgendwie gut stellen und alle kennenlernen und verstehen, sondern auch son bisschen immer mit der Materie, mit der Technik, mit der Domäne, mit dem Stack. Wie wie arbeitest Du da jetzt ein? Wenn jetzt, weiß nicht, morgen kommt eine Firma, die braucht Hilfe von dir und die machen, ja, ich weiß nicht, was Du noch nicht gemacht hast, die machen Inforance Software in Kobol oder so was. Mhm. Ja. Wie was sind so deine ersten 3 Punkte auf deiner Agenda, da reinzukommen? Ja. Also mit diesen, von dem ich erzählt hab, der bringt mir viel, einfach tiefer reinzukommen. Und meistens ist das so, wenn ich jetzt wirklich sone Interim Citro Rolle nehme, dass ich ja gar nicht der Experte für all diese Bereiche sein muss. Sondern es geht oft darum, eigentlich eher das auszurichten und strategisch zu entscheiden, in welche Richtung das gehen sollte. Das heißt, ich überlasse den Mitarbeitern, die jetzt 'n Kobold Experte, Kobold Entwickler, dem überlass ich das. Das ist jetzt nicht so, dass ich da reingeh und das versuch in die Tiefe alles zu verstehen. Sondern da geht's eher darum, die richtigen Punkte aufzugreifen, sodass die Probleme, die man bislang hat, ja, Millimeter sind und man besser zusammenarbeiten kann. Ja, aber es gibt doch trotzdem sonen Bereich, in dem man sein will zwischen, also Du willst kein kein Mikromanagement betreiben, das versteh ich schon, ja, und die sollen ihre eigenen Fachentscheidung treffen. Aber Du musst ja trotzdem tief genug drinstecken, zu merken, wenn dir irgendjemand Bullshit erzählt. So, ja, wenn jetzt dein Kobol Entwickler ankommt und sagt, na ja, wir bauen jetzt das Frontend übrigens auch in Kobol und haben da so über, weiß es nicht, Web Assembley eine Kobol Run Time für deinen Browser gebaut und die nehmen wir jetzt, von jetzt an alles UI- mäßige zu bauen. Da müsst ja irgendwann son bisschen die Alarmglocken angehen. Ja, Ja, und deswegen meinte, son bisschen muss man da schon irgendwie reinkommen, oder? Ja. Also es gibt ja natürlich so TechStac Formate, wo man dann überlegt, was natürlich nur Tierentscheidungen man treffen möchte. Aber die mach ich gemeinsam mit dem Team. Die mach ich nicht top down. Da geh ich gemeinsam rein, erzähl denen, was ich so aus der Vergangenheit kenne, was gut bei mir funktioniert hat. Das Team erzählt, was sie sich vorstellen. Und dann überlegt man, was ist wirklich der richtige Weg. Also dein Beispiel ist jetzt extrem, glaube ich. Aber ich glaub, da kommt man im Team auch schon Also da bin ich auch nicht der Einzige, dann der sagt, nee, das funktioniert so nicht. Sondern da ist dann meistens so, dass andere auch im Team irgendwie mitarbeiten. Es gibt zum Beispiel ein Thema, was ich mal hatte, da gab's 'n etwas älteren Mitarbeiter, der Maven genutzt hat immer. Mhm. Und da gab's 'n anderen, der wollte unbedingt gradel nutzen. Und gradel war da recht neu und frisch. Und Also Java Bild Tools für die Leute da draußen, ne? Genau. Und da ging's halt darum, ja, was nutzen wir jetzt? Und ich, da war, das war meine erste Rolle, wo ich 'n bisschen Leadershipfunktion war. Und ich hatte da gar keinen Also ich fand zwar groovy und gradel cool, aber ich dachte mir, okay, Mavin ist etabliert. Ist schon nicht verkehrt so, ne. Könnte man auch nutzen. Ich hatte da gar keine harte Richtlinie im Kopf, okay, das müssen wir jetzt so machen. Und dann hab ich die 'n bisschen gegeneinander antreten lassen im Endeffekt. Dann hab ich denen gesagt, okay, zeig mal, warum deins so cool ist. Zeig mal, warum Gradu so cool ist. Zeig mal, warum Mavin so cool ist. Und dann haben die sich das gegenseitig präsentiert und dann hat der eine gemerkt, okay, ich schreib hier irgendwie 100 Zeilen, irgendwas zu machen und der andere macht das in 5 Zeilen in in in Gradule, weil das einfach eine Programmiersprache ist, die geil genutzt wird und nicht XML. Und dann sind bei den Leuten einfach selber die Lichter aufgegangen. Und das ist natürlich der beste Fall, ne. Also das ist jetzt schon Szenario, das ich beschreibe, was ja der beste Fall ist, wo das Team das selber lernt. Da der Respekt zwischen diesem neuen Mitarbeiter und dem älteren Mitarbeiter dann auch irgendwie gewachsen ist und dass Merz dann geschweißt wurde. Ja, also ist ja cool, wenn das läuft. Ich hätte jetzt nur erwartet, weil Du ja vorhin auch gesagt hast, Du bist halt oft auch irgendwie als Feuerwehrmann unterwegs, dass ja man dann vielleicht grade eher in so Situationen kommt, wo halt nicht so cool funktionale Teams irgendwie da sind, sondern ne, da son bisschen mehr Aufräumarbeit irgendwie erst mal noch gebraucht hat und vielleicht auch mal son bisschen mehr Führung und Händchenhalten irgendwie erforderlich ist. Aber wenn wenn das trotzdem mit den Teams so klappt, dann ist es ja umso besser. Ja, also es gibt natürlich auch Szenarien, wo das nicht so gut funktioniert. Aber es liegt meistens daran, weil die Verantwortlichkeiten nicht klar sind. Also im Start-up ist das ja oft so, jeder macht alles. Und wenn Du irgendwie so 30, 40 Mitarbeiter bist, dann musst Du das langsam mal definieren. Weil sonst fühlt sich auch keiner verantwortlich. Und das ist auch etwas, was ich halt mitmache. Wo ich dann auch sage, okay, es gibt ein Projekt und da ist jetzt nur diese Person verantwortlich oder das Team. Und die lösen das. Das funktioniert auch meistens. Natürlich gibt's immer unterschiedliche Meinungen. Aber so ist das halt, ne. Also. Mhm. Mhm. Gibt es so eine Art von Fehler oder eine eine Gruppe von Fehler, 'n Typ von Fehler, den Du sehr häufig siehst, wo Du sagst, okay, wenn der Jan mir jetzt mal 5 Minuten das Mikrofon gibt und dann erklär ich den Teamset ups aufgebaut sein müssen, damit nicht jeder da draußen in in dieselbe Falle rennt so. Gibt's so was oder sind das wirklich so ganz unterschiedliche Sachen? Nee, also die Größe des Teams ist schon wichtig. Also optimal find ich immer 5, 6 Mitarbeiter. Also man sagt, diese 8 Leute maximal. Das find ich schon viel. Ich würd's eher kleiner halten. Ich würd's versuchen, so 5 bis 6 find ich eigentlich ganz gute Lösungen. Und die also unterschiedlicher Rollen. Genau. Mhm. Also cross funktional, das ist das ist schon wichtig. Ich hatte sogar ein-, zweimal mal Teams, wo wirklich auch Sales Leute in den Teams dabei waren. Das war das war, das fand ich schon sehr gut, weil die Leute sich dann angefangen haben, besser zu verstehen. Aber selten. Aber da müssen die Leute auch Lust zu haben. Das wär ja jetzt meine Frage gewesen, von von welcher Seite das ausgegangen ist und wie freiwillig das war. Aber wenn's funktioniert, ist sehr cool. Ja. Genau, das ist so, glaub ich, das Grundsätzlichste, was ich sagen würde. Mhm. Was eigentlich so was das ist, was was ich immer versuch, einzuführen, dass das halt nicht zu große Teams werden. Und was ist sone Art von Fehler, die oftmals vielleicht viel zu spät bemerkt wird, weil sie nicht so wirklich sichtbare Symptome haben? Weißt Du, was ich mein? Sone son Problem, was lange gerne untergerig irgendwie so vor sich hin stellt und dann Ja. Dann irgendwie hochnimmt. Testing ist ein Thema. Ja, okay. Das macht ja gefühlt irgendwie niemand. Aber man merkt dann irgendwann, okay, das ist 'n riesiger Monolith geworden. Und ich schraub hier an der Seite was und auf der anderen Seite explodiert's auf einmal und keiner weiß, warum. Das ist auch etwas, was ich halt irgendwie früh gelernt hab, als ich diese diese gebaut hab, diese AI damals. Recht kompliziert. Und ich konnte nachts manchmal nicht mehr schlafen. Ich dachte, scheiße. Ich weiß nicht, ob das jetzt noch funktioniert. Ich hab jetzt die Änderung gemacht. Und ich hab dann irgendwann angefangen, die. Also nur, gar nicht so Integrationstest und alles, was Du rum gewesen. Nur, Tests versuchen zu 80 80 Prozent Coverage zu haben. Und das hat schon viel geholfen, einfach zu sehen, okay, BASIC Vertrauen da da das kann nicht mehr komplett schiefgehen. Wenn da 'n Bug entsteht, dann ist das 'n kleiner Bug. Also das ist, glaub ich, 1. Und ich hab noch irgendwas im Kopf, ist mir aber jetzt wieder abhandengekommen. Okay. Und vielleicht so die gegenteilige Frage. Gibt's auch Probleme, die für für die Beteiligten so enorm riesig wirken, die aber eigentlich so ganz kleine Lösungen, haben gesagt, okay, Leute, ihr müsst an dieser Stellschraube vielleicht nur 'n kleines bisschen drehen oder irgendwas 'n bisschen anders machen und schon wär euer Leben so viel einfacher. Ja. Mir ist die Antwort von der letzten Frage noch mal eingefallen. Ja, dann haut die erst raus. Alles gut. Also Technologieupdates. Ja, okay. Also Ja, das kommt auch direkt. Irgendwie, also letztes Mal gab's wieder irgendwie 'n, da wurd irgendwie eine uralte PHP PHP Lösung genutzt, wo's super viele Sicherheitslösungen Sicherheitslücken gibt. Wo man einfach, wenn man das, weiß nicht, einmal im Jahr machst 'n Update, das reicht schon, damit Du nicht ganz aufm aufm aufm Boden fällst damit. Also das ist etwas, was irgendwie oft vergessen wird, find ich. Und das ist kein großer Aufwand. Man muss das einfach nur schedulen. Genau. Und die, wiederhol noch mal die Frage, bitte. Die Frage war, gibt es irgend eine Art von Problem, die halt für die Beteiligten so so riesig und ungreifbar und nicht angebar wirkt, aber die vielleicht eigentlich ganz ganz kleine, simple Lösungen haben, die aber niemand sieht in dem Moment. Ja. Also oft die Entwickler, die so im Seniorbereich sind und sich weiterentwickeln wollen in Richtung Managementlösung, also Richtung Management und dann Organisationsstrukturen verändern wollen, die denken immer, hab ich das Gefühl, ja, sie brauchen erst die Autorität, das machen zu können. Mhm. Damit einem keiner auf die Füße tritt. Mhm. Und ich denk mir immer, mach doch einfach erst mal. Mhm. Mach doch das einfach in deinem Team, wenn das funktioniert, werden alle sagen, boah geil, ihr macht das irgendwie doppelt so schnell wie vorher. Also oft sind diese Gedanken so hierarchisch sehr angelegt. Und das ist, glaube ich, oft 'n Problem, dass man so oft denkt, okay, ich brauch erst mal den CTO Titel, bevor ich hier überhaupt was machen kann. Das ist auch son typisches Szene Ei Problem, ne. Also die Leute denken irgendwie immer, ich brauch hier ich brauch hier Autorität, damit ich was umsetzen kann und vergessen dabei, dass sie vielleicht erst mal anfangen Sachen anfangen sollten, Sachen umzusetzen, damit sie dann diesen CDO Titel bekommen und damit dann quasi aufsteigen so, ja. Ja. Das ist halt auch auf irgendwie son bisschen Ego Thema. Und ich hab im Laufe der Zeit gemerkt, das das sollte man komplett wegschmeißen nach Möglichkeit. Also das hält einen meistens nur auf irgendwie. Und jeder hat das, ne. Also jeder hat das irgendwie. Mhm. Cool. Cool. Was sind so deine Lieblingsarten von Kunden und was sind so Kunden oder, wo Du eher sagst, ah, die, also ich mach die jetzt halt mal, aber mein ist das nicht. Ja. Meine Lieblingskunden sind Start ups, also wenn wir jetzt 'n Start-up erreicht bleiben. Start ups, die vor 1 Investment, Investmentrunde sind. Oh, richtig vor. Ja. Nee, es kann schon irgendwie eine CSA Runde sein oder so was. Ach so, aber grade vor der nächsten Runde meinst Du? Genau, vor der nächsten Runde sind. Weil dann kann man sehr viel vorbereiten, diesen Wachstum zu managen. Ja. Oft ist das aber der umgekehrte Fall. Die haben irgendwie, keine Ahnung, 'n paar Millionen bekommen, haben dann irgendwie 10 Leute angestellt und merken, okay, das funktioniert gar nicht. Das ist ein bisschen schwieriger für mich einfach. Und wenn man vorher Zeit hat, dann kann man das gut strukturieren und aufbauen, sodass das alle verstehen und dann auch dediziert einzelne Leute schrittweise einzustellen und so und so weiter. Also das ist, das ist oft 1. Und aktuell mach ich sehr gerne einfach auch so Themen, die erst im Bereich Forschung eigentlich unterwegs sind. Was grade grade aktuell arbeite ich für das Projekt Mission KI. Das ist vom Bundesministerium für Digitales und Verkehr initiiert worden. Gibt's ja leider nicht mehr. Das wird jetzt übernommen von von dem Digitalministerium. Und die haben sich ausgesucht, also die haben gesagt, wir wir machen Fellowship, also 'n Stipendium für die 10 besten PhD Studenten im Bereich AI und helfen ihnen dabei, ihre Forschung in Business Modelle und Start-up auszulagern. Also dass sie ja selber halt gründen können. Und das mach ich aktuell gerade und das macht viel Spaß. Das klingt auch gut. Das das funktioniert auch im Endeffekt aber auch nur, weil das unterstützt wird von vom vom Staat. Oder manchmal auch vom oder im Inkubator oder so was. Genau. Das ist, das find ich sehr spannend, weil es wirklich diese Brücke steckt zwischen Research und Business. Und 'n bisschen Erfahrung hab ich ja damals 2015 schon gehabt mit dem AAAAAAA. Cool. Eine eine Standardfrage, die wir, glaub ich, auch allen immer stellen, ist so, was was rätst Du Leuten, die gerne CTO werden wollen würden? Ja. Also ich glaub, wenn man CTO werden will, dann sollte man darauf vorbereitet sein, dass die Arbeit sich sehr stark verändert von dem, was man bislang gemacht hat, vor allem, wenn man Softwareentwickler ist. Und dass man sich wirklich überlegen sollte, ob das wirklich die richtige Fahrt für einen ist. Aber also man, ich ich sag auch für, man soll das auf jeden Fall ausprobieren und dann halt entscheiden, ob das die richtige Fahrt ist. Weil ich merk oft, dass Softwareentwickler in die Rolle kommen und dann merken, okay, das gar nicht, was ich machen will. Ich hab gar keine Lust irgendwie, mich mit Leuten, Menschen irgendwie die Probleme auseinanderzusetzen, sondern ich will einfach 8 Stunden vorm Rechner sitzen, geil geil geilen Code schreiben. Weil das ist schon eine sehr andere Aufgabe. Und man muss aus meiner Sicht auch nicht nur technisches zu wissen haben, son bisschen mehr über den Tellerrand schauen und verstehen, was die anderen, was alle anderen Abteilungen machen. Also man muss 'n CEO und 'n CEO und alles, was so auf Ziel Level existiert, einfach grundsätzlich verstehen, wie die arbeiten, was die machen. Und auf Ziel Level bist Du ja auch irgendwann für Budgets verantwortlich. Das heißt, dieses Finanzthema muss halt auch irgendwie abdecken können. Ja. Vielleicht noch vielleicht noch ein ein kleiner Rat. Ich würd's versuchen, immer schrittweise zu machen. Also vielleicht ist im ersten Schritt eher eine Head off Rolle oder eine direkte Rolle, als jetzt direkt Institut zu werden. Ja. Weil das auch schon 'n bisschen hilft, sich darauf vorzubereiten. Aber also geht es denn anders? Ja. Also 'n Start ups hast Du dann auf einmal eine Situor Rolle. Ja, also okay, dann hast Du die aufm Papier, aber das ist ja ehrlicherweise meilenweit weg von dem, was Ja. Die meisten anderen CTOs da draußen machen. Dann hast Du Lust zwar, aber Du wächst, also Du gehst ja trotzdem diese Teamlead, Head of Engineering, VP CTO Reise durch. Du heißt halt nur von Anfang an so, aber Ja. Ne. Ja. Ja. Die Firma wächst ja unter dir mit. Ich hab ich hab's auch noch nie gesehen, aber die Ambitionen gibt's. Ja. Da sagt jetzt, okay, ich war jetzt ich hab jetzt 5 bis 7 Jahre irgendwie Software entwickelt. Reicht jetzt. Ja. Hier gibt's also, viele Ambitionen haben die Leute manchmal. Ah, okay. Ja. Okay, dann haben wir noch was vorbereitet. Ja, ohne Absprache würde ich das gerne ersetzen. Ohne, ja, Dennis hat irgendwas anderes vorbereitet. Das ist, okay. Okay, ich bin gespannt. Ich auch. Also sonst haben wir ja immer einen eine Frau Musik im Hintergrund, erfüllen, was Du wollen wir nicht. Kannst Du gerne machen. Einen Fragenkatalog, wo wir so entweder oder Fragen stellen. Aber bei dir würde mich jetzt und in der heutigen Zeit, wo wir jetzt Mitte 2025 sind, noch mehr interessieren, wie denn dein persönlicher Take zu AI ist und vor allen Dingen eben auch auf das, was Du tust, nämlich irgendwie, ne, überlegen, wie Tech Organisationen strukturiert sind. Wie sehr Also was denkst Du aktuell, wie sehr wird sich das verändern? Und in welcher Geschwindigkeit, aber vielleicht also vorneweg noch so, wird sich das verändern? Kann ja auch sein, dass Du da konträrerer Meinung bist und wenn ja, wie schnell und wie schnell wird das auf das, was Du machst im Sinne von, es braucht andere Strukturen, es braucht, ne, andere andere Ideen, eine Auswirkung haben. Ja. Also ich glaub auf jeden Fall, dass sich das verändert. Und ich glaub, man man sieht das auch schon teilweise. Was was halt noch, also alle nutzen ChatGPT und solche solche Lösungen. Und was ich halt oft seh, ist, das sind halt immer noch Language Models. Das sind keine Knowledge Models oder so was, ne. Also das wird immer mehr in die Richtung, dass auch irgendwie logische Zusammenhänge und so was verbessert werden. Aber das ist noch nicht auf dem Level, was ich gleichzeitig seh, dass es schon einzelne technische Lösungen gibt, die sehr viel, also ist 'n höherer Grad an Automatisierung für mich. So seh ich das eigentlich. Und das wird schon viel verändern. Und es gibt ja, also ich beschäftige mich ja viel mit Start ups grade aktuell. Und ich seh auch zum Beispiel, dass in bei Y Kombinator in den USA dafür aufgerufen wird, Native AI Unternehmen zu gründen, ja. Also dass man sagt, okay, das muss von Grund auf alles AI basiert sein. Und zu überlegen, okay, wie bau ich jetzt, ich glaub, das Beispiel, das Sie genannt haben, war, wie bau ich jetzt eine Anwaltskanzlei auf, die mit AR Unterstützung super arbeiten kann? Und da sagen die, okay, das will, den wollen wir gar nicht. Wir wollen, dass die Mitarbeiter, die die Anwaltstätigkeiten machen, dass das AI Systeme sind. Und gar nicht mehr, dass das nur unterstützend ist, weil Und ich glaube, das geht mehr und mehr in die Richtung. Also ich hab schon ein, 2 Tendenzen gesehen, wo es auch mehr in die Richtung geht, dass es einzelne Personen teilweise gibt, die Millionen von Umsätzen machen, dadurch, dass sie halt sehr viel automatisieren können und AI dazu auch nutzen. Genau, das dauert eine gewisse Zeit, glaub ich, noch, bis es da wirklich so weiter etabliert ist. Aber so, das ist der Trend und die Tendenz, die ich zumindest sehe. Also Teams werden kleiner, viele Sachen werden mehr automatisiert. Die Aufgaben, die wir teilweise haben, auch teilweise in der Softwareentwicklung selber, dass Tools verwendet werden, wo man teilweise schon sagen kann, okay, das könnte auch 'n Juniorentwickler irgendwie ersetzen, dass das immer mehr und mehr kommt. Freust Du dich auf die Zukunft? Ja, generell eigentlich schon, aber ich Es klingt so, ich bin gespannt. Ich bin gespannt, sagen wir mal so. Also ich bin ich bin neugieriger Typ, aber ich ich ich hab noch 'n, ich hab jetzt, wenn ich so in die Glaskugel gucke, ist es noch schwammig für mich. Also ist neblig. Ich weiß, ich kann noch nicht so klar sagen, okay, das, ich würde schätzen, das wird in die Richtung gehen. Genau. Aber ich träume mich generell schon darauf, würde ich sagen. Ja. Also ich hab bin jetzt nicht 1 von denen, die sagen würde, okay, dass ich hab jetzt Angst davor oder so was. Ich glaub schon, dass das sehr viel Fortschritt oft bedeuten wird. Wo siehst Du denn da die die Grenzen aktuell oder perspektivisch? Grade wenn Du schon von so früh mit dabei warst und ja wahrscheinlich doch eher bei denen mit dabei bist, die ja auch sehen, dass da am Ende viel Stochastik einfach nur hinten dran ist, ja. Mhm. Und und und kein Wissen und logisches Denken, zumindest so, wie's aktuell funktioniert. Gibt es da für dich sone sone natürlich sone Glasgrenze, die wir irgendwann erreichen? Oder oder wie siehst Du das? Also es gibt ja viele Tools, die so im kreativen Bereich eingesetzt werden, ne, Bilder zu generieren und all so. Und alle haben gedacht, okay, der kreative Bereich, der wird eigentlich krass dadurch beeinflusst und attackiert. Und einerseits stimmt das, aber echte Kreativität ist dann noch mal irgendwie was anderes. Echte echte Ideen und Innovationskraft irgendwie zu haben, da das seh ich noch nicht so richtig bei den AI Systemen. Da weiß ich auch nicht, ob die das erreichen können. Das sucht mein Gedanke dazu. Mhm. Ja. Inwiefern. Hast Du noch mehr Fragen denn? Es ist klein so, als hättest Du sonen Fragenkatalog dabei. Nee. Ach so. Ich hab einfach nur den den anderen ersetzt durch diese eine Frage. Ah, eisi. Sie. Okay. Ja. Cool. Dann sind wir, glaub ich, durch für heute schon. Ja, außer Du willst die anderen 2 klassischen Fragen, die hab ich natürlich noch. Ja, die kannst Du auch raushauen. Die kann ich auch rauchen. Okay, die erste ist, wenn Du jetzt zurückreihst, ich mein, Du hast ja 'n durchaus spannenden Lebenslauf und hier die ein oder anderen Pivot son bisschen gemacht mit Ausbildung und Studium und jetzt dem dem Coaching und dem Weiterbringen von anderen. Wenn Du zurückreisen könntest, vielleicht nicht ganz in die Kommodore Zeit, aber doch irgendwie an an am Anfang. Gibt's da was, was Du dir ins Ohr flüstern würdest und wo Du so mit der Erfahrung, die Du heute hast, irgendwie was auf jeden Fall anders machen würdest? Also ich hätte wahrscheinlich früher angefangen, in die Selbstständigkeit, also das würd ich mir sagen, fang früher an, in die Selbstständigkeit zu gehen. Mhm. Also bei mir war das so, ich hatte schon eigentlich immer so den Wunsch irgendwie, selbstständig zu arbeiten. Ich glaube, das hätt ich früher locker auch stemmen können. So 5 Jahre früher beispielsweise. Das das hätte, glaub ich, mehr Sinn gemacht. Was waren damals so die Bedenken, die dich davon abgehalten haben? Oder war's einfach nicht auf deinem Schirm, dass das eine Option ist? Das war's schon auf meinem Schirm, aber ich weiß nicht, es gibt halt so gewisse Ängste und Sicherheitsgefühle, wo man sagt, okay. Und außerdem hat man hat hatt ich auch immer einigermaßen gute Jobs, wo ich dann gedacht hab, ich komm dann auch immer weiter. Aber ist es noch mal was anderes, wenn man selber wirklich frei entscheiden kann, Sachen so zu gestalten, wie man möchte? Das ist noch mal was ganz anderes. Sogar wenn Du wenn Du irgendwie im Ziellevel aufm, in 'nem Unternehmen, 'n Start-up bist und von mir aus bist Du auch Gesellschafter, hast Du trotzdem immer 'n Rahmen, wo Du dich mit anderen Leuten absprechen musst? Ja, meistens heißt der Gesellschafterbetrag. Genau. Und das ist halt das ist halt, in gewissen Situationen hab ich mich da immer limitiert gefühlt. Mhm. Genau. Deswegen war, ist mein mein, würde ich meinem jüngeren Ich sagen, mach das ruhig früher, trau dich ruhig. Ist ja okay, wenn Du auf die auf die Schnauze fällst damit, dann steht immer wieder auf und macht's halt noch mal besser. Das, glaub ich, eine gute Einstellung. Und die andere Frage, die wir gerne stellen, welche Frage wärst Du, hätten wir dir noch stellen sollen? Also was was bist Du nicht gefragt worden und hättest Du trotzdem gerne geteilt in dem Podcast? Also ich glaub, die Frage hättet ihr nicht stellen können, aber das hatt ich im Kopf, aber ich hab's nicht erzählt. Und zwar, was mich damals so gefreckt hat und auch beeinflusst hat, war, dass ich wirklich diese ersten 3 Geschäftsführer, die ich hatte, dass sie nicht nur irgendwie mir technisch und thematisch Sachen gut beigebracht haben, sondern auch das Zwischenmenschliche. Also wie wir zusammengearbeitet haben. Wir haben zum Beispiel, also 2005 hab ich angefangen, mit denen zu arbeiten. Und wir waren damals schon irgendwann im Remote Setup. Das heißt, die haben mir voll vertraut. Die haben gesagt, mach, was Du willst. Hier ist das Projekt. Bau das, wie Du möchtest. Montags haben wir uns zum Frühstück getroffen. Ich hab die Brüche mitgebracht. Wir haben's dann gefrühstückt. Und dann war das, das war sehr familiär. Und das ist, glaub ich, so etwas, was großen Einfluss darauf hat, wie man sich entwickelt, wie man lernt. Und was noch zusätzlich hinzukommt, die waren halt, ich hab die halt irgendwann dabei erwischt, dass sie in der Pause 3 live gespielt haben. Und ich wusste das nicht, dass sie auch spielen. Und da dacht ich mir, okay, cool. Ja, ja, ist cool. Ja, das glaub ich, glaub ich, bei so jedem Lebensabschnitt ist irgendwie entscheidend mehr da mitmachen, ne. Ich glaub, bei bei Kindern so, dein dein erster Lehrer, Lehrerin, was auch immer, ist irgendwie super ausschlaggebend, wenn Du jemanden hast, der dich fördert und aufbaut oder so, ja, an der an der Schule, wenn Du irgendwie 'n coolen Dozent oder 'n coolen Tutor hast oder an der Uni dann später und halt grade dann auch irgendwie im ersten Job da steht und fällt irgendwie so viel damit. Ja, man unterschätzt das oft und man sieht das erst im Nachhinein dann auch erst. Ja. Das ist richtig. Schön, Ja. Dann 1000 Dank, Perman, dass Du dir die Zeit genommen hast für uns heute. Ich hab's dann. Sehr interessantes Gespräch. 1000 Dank Dennis, dass Du mit dabei warst. Danke. 1000 Dank an alle, die da draußen zugehört haben. Wenn ihr Fragen, Anregungen, Kritik, was auch immer habt, dann immer gerne an Podcast at Programmier Punkt bar oder gerne auf LinkedIn, Mastodon, Blues Guy, Instagram, wo auch immer ihr uns findet, Youtube. Wir sind überall, lesen alles mit und freuen uns auf eure Kommentare und freuen uns auf die nächste Folge. Bis schön. Bis dahin. Tschau, tschau. Bis. Und bis bald. Macht's gut. Danke, Peymane. Tschau, 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0: Hallo und herzlich willkommen zu einem neuen CTO Special, das wir auch lange nicht mehr hatten in der Programmier. Ich bin grade auf dem ganz falschen Fuß aufgestanden und weiß gar nicht mehr, wann das Letzte war, aber es ist auf alle Fälle schon 'n bisschen her. Das war mit Katrin, das war, glaub ich, die Nummer 30 oder 31 oder so. Und ich laber einfach so lange weiter, bis ich's wieder find. Das war nämlich die 31.\n\nSo. Aber heute sind wir 1 weiter. Monate sind vergangen. Wir nehmen ein neues CTO Special auf, heute mit Paymann Projekte. Hallo Paymann.\n\nSpeaker 1: Hi Jan, hi Dennis. Freut mich.\n\nSpeaker 2: Schön, dass Du da bist.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und außerdem natürlich wieder dabei, der Dennis hier in meinem linken Studiosessel mit am Start.\n\nSpeaker 2: In meinem Lieblingsformat. Ich\n\nSpeaker 1: weiß gar nicht,\n\nSpeaker 2: ob ich damit das andere son bisschen degradiere, aber am liebsten hab ich doch das CTO Special immer noch am spannendsten.\n\nSpeaker 1: Was noch nicht ist.\n\nSpeaker 0: Immer das Format am liebsten, in dem Du grade sitzt, oder? Sitze. Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 2: Außer das CTO Special.\n\nSpeaker 0: Warum ist das CDO Special ein Lieblingsformat, Dennis?\n\nSpeaker 2: Na, für mich ist es einfach eine superspannende Perspektive, so einzelne Persönlichkeiten 'n bisschen kennenzulernen, wie die verschiedenen Lebensläufe aussehen, wie man da hingekommen ist, was man macht. Das ist irgendwie was, was man nicht so täglich irgendwo liest. Also Du kannst das zwar irgendwie abstrakt auf 'nem LinkedIn Profil irgendwie noch vielleicht mal sehen. Aber ja, was waren so die Entscheidungsschritte? Was hat man Spannendes erlebt?\n\nUnd da gibt es einfach Persönlichkeiten, die einiges zu erzählen haben und ich bin mir sicher, dass Peymann dazugehört.\n\nSpeaker 0: Da bin ich auch ziemlich sicher. Aber vielleicht bevor wir zu den ganz spannenden kritischen Stationen kommen, fangen wir vielleicht mal ganz vorne an. Peymann, wie bist Du in den Computerzaubertrank gefallen? Was war dein erster Einstieg?\n\nSpeaker 1: Also ich hatte ganz früh im, ich glaub, Grundschulalter war das so ungefähr, hab ich irgendwann mich mehr mit Technik beschäftigt. Und ich glaub, ich hab zu Geburtstag oder Weihnachten hab ich mal sonen Elektrobaukasten geschenkt gekriegt. Kennst Du, Kosmos, glaub ich, Elektrobaukasten oder so was? Oh ja, oh ja. Wo man so Schaltung sammeln Gibt's auch heute.\n\nSchalten kann. Gibt's immer noch, ja. Ja. Okay. Ja.\n\nGenau, so was hab ich geschenkt bekommen und dann ich mir Radio zusammenbauen und ich war son bisschen technikaffin. Ich glaub, meine Eltern haben das auch so gemerkt und 'n bisschen in die Richtung dann gepusht. Und irgendwann hab ich dann ganz klassisch, wie glaub ich, viele andere irgendwann Commodore 64 bekommen. Ich hab das beim Nachbarsfreund gesehen und da haben wir Spiele drauf gezockt. Und dann war's nicht mehr allzu weit davon, bis ich meine Eltern davon überzeugt hab, okay, ich brauch auch so was.\n\nDie dachten natürlich, ich fang da damit an, großartig irgendwie was zu lernen, aber ich hab natürlich am Anfang nur gespielt. Da hab\n\nSpeaker 0: ich mal eine Frage, weil das ist ja sone Einschießgeschichte, die mir relativ häufig fallen, ne. Das war son Commodore oder bei meinen Eltern, dann war's irgendwie sone sone erste Doss Kiste irgendwie. Ja. Habt ihr, also ihr beide noch son Gefühl dafür, was das damals für Eltern für son Kostenaufwand war? Weil weißt Du, heute so, ja, ich stell meinem Kind mal irgendwie sonen Rechner, da gibt's ja, ja, in jeder Price range irgendwie was, aber das war ja, als wir son bisschen jünger waren, noch sah das ja noch ganz anders aus, ne?\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja. Also ich erinner mich, das war für meine Eltern schon 'n größerer Schritt. Also es war viel Geld für die, das zu investieren. Ich, wenn ich mich richtig erinnere, war das ja auch nicht nur, dass Du, also war's, glaub ich, erst mal Secondhand. Das heißt, irgendeiner hatte das vorher gekauft und ich hab dann die zweite Version davon gekriegt.\n\nUnd das war ja auch nicht nur, dass Du irgendwie nur ein fertiges Gerät, so laptopmäßig Monitor alles dran gekauft hast, sondern Du hast ja einzelne Geräte gehabt im Endeffekt. Und dann braucht's dann noch 'n Fernseher oder 'n Monitor irgendwie dazu. Das heißt, das war schon 'n bisschen aufwendiger.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja. Überlegt hat so, was das Äquivalent zu heute ist, so was, was\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, ist schwierig. Ob, wahrscheinlich ist es mehr als irgendwie eine Nintendo Switch oder so, würd ich vermuten.\n\nSpeaker 1: Oh ja, bestimmt.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja. Bestimmt.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ich weiß noch nicht, ob wie teuer es leider war.\n\nSpeaker 2: Na, ich weiß auch noch nicht. Also bei mir war's tatsächlich auch vererbt. Also mein mein Opa war derjenige in der Familie, der da immer sehr nah dran war und den Commodore 64 dann an an meinen Bruder und mich gegeben hat. Ja, könnte ich dir aber gar nicht so sagen. Ich mein, danach gab's ja, also es gab ja diese, das hat man ja auch schon mal manchmal in 'nem Lebenslauf, es gab ja diese ALDI Computerphase.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja. Also da muss\n\nSpeaker 0: jetzt leider die Hörerinnen da draußen enttäuschen. Das hat uns halt alle nicht so betroffen eigentlich, ne. Wieso? Ja, also ALDI Computer, das war doch so hier Zweitausender dann, ne. Früher Zweitausender.\n\nSpeaker 2: Na ja, also ich weiß, dass ich mal vom ALDI stand und son da drauf gewartet hab.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja? Ja, ja, ja.\n\nSpeaker 2: Also das ist schon, vielleicht warst Du schon advanced und hast irgendwie deine eigenen Grafikkarten reingeschraubt, aber das war so vom Gesamtpaket und die waren jetzt, boah, also ich könnte jetzt auch keinen keinen Preis mehr sagen, aber die waren weit weg von irgendwie heutigen MacBooks oder anderen Sachen oder was auch immer sie, die gingen irgendwie so, ne. Also\n\nSpeaker 1: Du fühlst fast dreistellig noch, oder?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, genau. Ja. Das war dreistellig, da bin ich ziemlich sicher, ich hätt jetzt auch so was wie 400, 500 Euro, die Range gesagt.\n\nSpeaker 0: Also 'n c 64, Ja. 83 erschienen, Damals fünfzehnhundert Mark, inflationsbereinigter Preis heute ungefähr achtzehnhundert Euro.\n\nSpeaker 1: Mhm. Also\n\nSpeaker 0: das ist schon Ja,\n\nSpeaker 2: aber Du hast auch gesagt, also, ne, ne Eröffnungspreis. Also nicht Eröffnungspreis, aber am Anfang.\n\nSpeaker 0: Einführungspreis. Einführungspreis. Ja, kann sein, dass es Und\n\nSpeaker 2: wenn Du's dann irgendwie Secondhand hast und so, ne. Aber ja klar. Trotzdem auf jeden Fall jetzt nicht, lagen nicht kostenlos rum auf der Straße und man konnt sie einsammeln.\n\nSpeaker 0: Okay. Du Du hast nur gespielt, hast Du gesagt. Was war so das Erste an, was Du dich erinnern kannst, was mehr war als spielen?\n\nSpeaker 1: Das war, also es war schon immer in der Anfangszeit sehr stark Spiele. Also wir haben so Quake und so was, also so was gespielt. Ah ja. Und dann ging's eher in die Richtung RC Channels, weil, also Ah. Wir waren halt in so\n\nSpeaker 0: Ihr hattet schon Internet so früh?\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, das war 'n bisschen später dann. Das war 'n bisschen später natürlich dann. Aber so richtig, wo ich dann wirklich was mit Computer gemacht hab, also ganz am Anfang, wenn wenn jetzt über Commodoreo und vielleicht den ersten 3 Sechsundachtziger, wenn man darüber nachdenkt. Da ging's dann eher darum, Dateien zu kopieren, Spiele zu kopieren oder so was oder also oder vielleicht mal zu formatieren oder so was. Viel gemacht haben wir damit nicht.\n\nVielleicht 'n bisschen mal 'n Brief geschrieben oder so was für für die Eltern oder so was. Aber sonst, Programmieren hab ich eigentlich erst später, viel später angefangen. Und Ja.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja. Aber es ist halt trotzdem noch mal was anderes, finde ich. Also wenn man heute eine Tenntenance Hirt und die machst Du an und steckst 'n Spiel rein, trotzdem natürlich bei 'nem Commodore ein anderes Erlebnis gewesen, weil Du musstest halt irgendwas in eine Art Kommandozeile eintippen. Ja, genau. Also das heißt so, der, es fühlte sich halt deutlich technischer an, als als der Zugriff heute ist zu spielen und das braucht es so auf jeden Fall.\n\nUnd so 'n paar Grundlagen, was bedeutet das überhaupt? Was ist eine eine Speichermedium und so? Also 'n paar Dinge musste man einfach wissen. Und vielleicht war dadurch dann einfach der Zugang schon technischer, als er heute vielleicht ist.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja. Das wird auf jeden Fall der Fall sein. Ich hatte auch nie Spielekonsole beispielsweise, hatt ich irgendwie nie. Also ich hab dann, wenn überhaupt dann Spiele aufm Computer gespielt und vielleicht später dann mal bei Freunden oder so was. Aber irgendwie war mir dieses, okay, ich hab jetzt eine Kommandozeile und musste irgendwie was eintippen, damit was passiert.\n\nIst schon irgendwie 'n gängiges Ding.\n\nSpeaker 0: Wann hattest Du so zum ersten Mal das Gefühl, dass Computer so in deiner Zukunft, in deiner Ausbildung, in deinem Job eine Rolle spielen können?\n\nSpeaker 1: Ich glaub, das war nachm Abi erst so richtig, beziehungsweise Fachabi hab ich gemacht. Weil ich dann irgendwann gemerkt hab, okay, ich beschäftige mich viel mehr mit technischen Sachen. Und ich wusste damals nicht so richtig, was ich, was der nächste Schritt sein sollte. Und das kam dadurch zustande, weil ich war zum Beispiel gar nicht gut in der Schule. Also ich gab nur 3 Fächer, wo ich gut war.\n\nDas war Sport, Mathe und Kunst. Und ich hab dann irgendwie später herausgefunden, weil Du musst die Schule wechseln, bin dann auf eine Fachoberschule gegangen und hab in dem Bereich Elektrotechnik meine mein Fachabitur gemacht. Und das zu machen, musstest Du 'n Jahr lang 'n Praktikum machen auch. Heißt, Du bist zur Schule gegangen und hast 'n Jahr lang auch Praktikum gemacht und ich hab das als Elektriker gemacht aufm Bau mit, also nicht nur Kabelziehen im im Rohbau, sondern auch Datennetzwerkschränke und solche Sachen. Und hab ich schon langsam gemerkt, so, okay, irgendwie die technischen Sachen liegen mir ganz gut.\n\nIch konnte sogar damals recht gut mit komplexen Zahlen umgehen. Das lag mir irgendwie, also ich vor gute Mathe immer und logischen Themen. Und dadurch kam das dann irgendwann zustande. Also ich hab dann angefangen, mal kurz angefangen zu studieren, aber eigentlich hab ich erst danach dann gemerkt, okay, ich brauch irgendwas Praktisches und ich muss irgendwie in Richtung Ausbildung denken.\n\nSpeaker 0: Kannst Du heute noch 'n Netzwerkkabel krempen?\n\nSpeaker 1: Boah, weiß ich gar nicht. Doch, ich, nee, wahrscheinlich nicht mehr. Wahrscheinlich nicht mehr. Also ist schon so so lange her wirklich. Aber\n\nSpeaker 0: ja. Ansonsten verlernt verlernt man gefühlt irgendwie sehr schnell. Ich hab das so während dem Hausbau, die ersten Kabel im Stecker sahen sehr schief aus bei mir. Am Ende war ich sehr zufrieden und heut ich kenn ich's auch nicht mehr.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja. Du brauchst aber spezielle Tools im Endeffekt dafür, ne. Also es gibt ja, ich weiß gar nicht mehr, wie die heißen, euch zu sein. Weil im Endeffekt während der Zeit, wo ich viel aufm Bau gearbeitet hab, ging's dann oft auch, also Datennetzwerkschrank hatten wir natürlich auch. Aber der Fokus war irgendwie, in Düsseldorf aufm Bau fließen auf, nicht fließend, die Wände aufzukloppen, Kabel reinzulegen, Netzwerkschränke dann irgendwie zu verbinden und solche Sachen und Strom zu legen überall.\n\nUnd das war dann eher 'n bisschen ja son bisschen robustere Arbeit als jetzt tiefe Datennetzwerkthema irgendwie sich damit zu beschäftigen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ach so, was waren das damals so für für Kunden, für Projekte? Wie muss man sich das vorstellen? Weil so Sachen wie wie Heimnetz und Automatisierung, das war ja, gab's ja damals so eigentlich kaum, oder? Also wer hatte damals schon Interesse an so an so Set ups?\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja. Also es gab zum Beispiel 'n Neubau in Düsseldorf. Und ich musste dann morgens früh schon zur Firma, weil wir 6 Uhr losgefahren sind, 7 Uhr aufm Bau in Düsseldorf zu sein. Das heißt, ich musste sehr früh mal aufstehen. Und dann sind wir da hingefahren.\n\nDas ist 'n Neubau gewesen. Recht wohlhabende Gegend, würd ich sagen. Und die wollten halt nicht nur irgendwie Strom haben, sondern die wollten auch 'n Netzwerk hat in in den in den Gebäuden haben. Und nicht irgendwie außen außen auch 'n Putz drauf zu zu klatschen, sondern wirklich in den Wänden mit Trends verarbeitet zu haben. Das waren oft auch größere Gebäude, manchmal auch son Gewerbegebiet.\n\nUnd in die Richtung ging das dann oft. Cool. Ja, von 'ner anstrengende Zeit, echt zu sein. Aber ich hab dann gemerkt, wo der Unterschied zwischen körperlicher Arbeit ist und wenn man dann im Büro ist und seinen Kopf mehr anstrengt.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, kann ich mir vorstellen, dass das auch für für die spätere Zeit dann irgendwie Eindrücke sind, ne, die man mitnehmen kann und Erfahrungen, wenn man wenn man unterschiedliche Dinge irgendwie gemacht hat in der Zeit. Du hast gesagt, Du hast das Studium abgebrochen, weil Du dann es praktisch, also Du warst eher praxisorientiert und wolltest daher eher eine Ausbildung machen?\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja. Also ich hab ich hab nach meinem Fachabi, was in Elektrotechnik abgeschlossen wurde, hab ich gedacht, boah, ich war so gut da drin. Also was heißt so gut, ne? Ich hatte einigermaßen guten Abschluss. Aber ich dachte mir, okay, ich werd jetzt studieren, weil ich wusste nicht, was ich jetzt irgendwie als Ausbildung oder arbeitstechnik direkt machen sollte.\n\nNun hab ich gedacht, ich mach jetzt Elektrotechnik. Und ich war damals so, hatt ich so gehört, wenn Du Elektrotechnik studierst, das machen nicht viele. Und wenn Du da 'n zweiten Semester schon durch bist, sprich dich schon Siemens an und dann kriegst Du 'n Vertrag und verdienst direkt 2500 Euro. Und das hat mich voll so Ich war son bisschen, dachte so, boah, geil, dann verdienstste dein eigenes Geld. Mhm.\n\nUnd dann bin ich da hingegangen, hab das ein, 2 Semester gemacht und wir waren da zu viert in dem ganzen Studiengang gefühlt, wo wo jeder son bisschen für sich so gearbeitet hat. Und ich da, ich bin halt jemand, der, ich spiel Fußball und so, also jetzt nicht mehr. Aber in der Vergangenheit hab ich sehr viel Fußball gespielt. So viel das Teamgefühl mochte ich sehr gerne. Und das hat irgendwie nicht gepasst.\n\nUnd das war sehr theoretisch alles, also Vorlesungen zu haben. Und dann hab ich irgendwann gemerkt, okay, das passt gar nicht so richtig. Und dann hab ich's abgebrochen. Ich hatte während der Zeit auch nebenberuflich noch in in in der Kita gearbeitet, was da noch mal andere Perspektive reinbringt, glaub Aber ich hab dann irgendwann entschieden, okay, das geht nicht. Ich muss was anderes machen.\n\nUnd dann hab ich mich angefangen, als Fachinformatiker zu bewerben. Genau, das hat im ersten Schritt nicht funktioniert. Ich weiß, hab noch hat sich son bisschen meinen Kopf reingebrannt. Ich hab 65 Bewerbungen geschrieben und das war nicht damals, ich 65 Bewerbungen geschrieben. Und das war nicht damals so, dass man das irgendwie per PDF und dann verschickt man das irgendwie, sondern also handschriftlich war's auch nicht mehr, aber ich musste schon alles ausdrucken in sone schöne Mappe reinpacken und dann per Post da hinschicken, damit das nicht verknickt und alles.\n\nManchmal hab ich sogar persönlich vorbeigebracht. Und keiner wollte mich. Keiner wollte mich als Fachinformatiker. Und dann hab ich irgendwann in, also ich hab so auch in der Umgebung von Essen, weil ich bin in Essen groß geworden. In der Umgebung hab ich mich auch beworben.\n\nUnd dann hab ich irgendwann dann gesehen, dass in Essen eine Rolle offen ist für eine Ausbildung im Bereich Mediengestaltung, Non Print. Und ich hatt ich mir 'n bisschen durchgelesen, was das ist. Und dacht mir, okay, so richtig funktioniert das nicht, aber bewirb dich mal da drauf. Und das war, also hatt ich 'n sehr glückliches Händchen, glaub ich. Also ich hatte Glück.\n\nAlso 'n Händchen hatt ich vielleicht nicht, ich hatte einfach Glück. Weil da hab ich im Endeffekt das Team oder die Chefs kennengelernt, die mich, die mir alles eigentlich beigebracht haben. Es war zwar eine, also ich bin zum Bewerbungsgespräch gegangen. Die waren so modern, die meinten, ja, schick mir mal eine PDF. Und dann hab ich son PDF Generator genommen, wo noch son Logo von dem Tool draufstand und so was.\n\nFand die aber trotzdem gut. Die meinten, hast Du hast Du gut gemacht? Und die meinten, ja, eigentlich suchen wir Fachinformatiker, aber wir sind alles Mediengestalter. Wir können keinen Fachinformatiker ausbilden. Deswegen würden wir dich als Mediengestalter ausbinden im Bereich Nonprint.\n\nAlso man muss dazu sagen, ich glaub, die heißen, die Rollen heißen jetzt anders. Aber es gibt Print und Nonprint. Das heißt alles, was gedruckt wird. Und Nonprint ist eher so alles, was digital ist von Präsentation bis Webseiten und so was. Und die meinen, Du kannst Nonprint machen.\n\nUnd wir würden schätzen, so 60, 70 Prozent ist Softwareentwicklung und alles andere ist im Bereich Design. Und dann dacht ich mir, okay, ich sag gar nicht verkehrt, so beide Welten vielleicht son bisschen kennenzulernen. Und dann hab ich das gemacht. Und bevor ich die Ausbildung angefangen hab, wurd ich dann ins Linuxhotel geschickt. Kennt ihr das?\n\nMhm. Ich nicht. Ja, das ist das ist 'n Hotel, eigentlich ist das sone riesige Villa in in Essen auch. Und also der, der das organisiert hat, der hat einfach eine riesige Villa gebaut und hat, macht da Workshops. Und das heißt, Du\n\nSpeaker 0: Ach, der hat die, ich dacht, das sone alte Gründerzeitwille, die sieht\n\nSpeaker 1: immer so Also der hat die renoviert, ne. Also der hat das nicht grad als selber gebaut, also. Der hat das irgendwann übernommen und hat daraus irgendwie son riesige Villa gemacht, wo Du halt für eine Woche oder fürn Wochenende hin kannst und dann machst Du Workshops, machst Du zum Beispiel. Also ich hab Japan am Anfang kennengelernt. Ich bin da hingefahren, saß dann dafür, ich glaub, eine Woche sogar was oder 4 Tage und hab Java gelernt, hab Workshops gemacht.\n\nUnd da waren ganz viele andere Leute auch da, die beispielsweise aus München kommen und die konnten dann in der Villa übernachten. Und da gibt's halt so in der Villa halt alles drum und dran. Also Du hast eine gute Zeit und Du lernst auch noch zusätzlich was. Und soweit ich weiß, sind da eigentlich größere Unternehmen immer wieder hingegangen, ihre Personal zu schulen. Deswegen dacht ich vielleicht, kennt ihr das?\n\nSpeaker 2: Du hast ja auch genickt, ne?\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, ja, also\n\nSpeaker 1: Du kannst ja Du Du kannst ja die Geschichte irgendwie.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ich war nie selber da, weil ich so früh in meiner Karriere niemanden hatte, der das hätte für mich bezahlen können, wollen, wie auch immer. Aber das Linuxhotel, das war damals so, ich glaub, Dauerwerbeast so in den ganzen Foren und Computer Printmagazin und so was, was man so konsumiert hat. Also präsent war das halt schon. Okay. Die gibt's immer noch.\n\nIch hab grad mal auf der Webseite geguckt.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, ich will will da Vogelsang oder so was, glaub ich, ne. Ja. Ja, es war ganz nett. Und da hab ich dann im Endeffekt angefangen, Java zu lernen. Ich muss dazu sagen, ich hatte, also warum die mich als Ausbildung, glaub ich, auch, also für die Ausbildung genommen haben, ich hab vorher an der Volkshochschule Java und c plus plus noch mal so Kurse gemacht, was in meinem CV natürlich zu haben.\n\nAber also ihr wisst ja, wie das ist. Am Anfang, wenn man irgendwie 'n Java Kurs macht, man versteht eigentlich überhaupt nicht, was man da tut. Und sogar nach dem Kurs hab ich noch nicht richtig verstanden, was ich da tue. Das hat bei mir wirklich lange gedauert. Ich glaub, es hat son Jahr lang gedauert, bis ich wirklich verstanden hab, bis ich die Synapsen in meinem Gehirn gebildet haben, bis ich verstanden hab, was objektorientierte Programmierung ist und so.\n\nAlso ich hab da echt lange gebraucht, aber ja, das war 'n Superteam. Ich hab recht viel von unterschiedlichen Seiten, unterschiedliche Aspekte einfach kennengelernt in von von diesem Team.\n\nSpeaker 2: Und Du hast dann aber doch noch mal, wenn ich das richtig gelesen hab, parallel noch mal studiert, ne?\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja. Weil\n\nSpeaker 2: Du das Studium so gut fand, ist das Erste.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja. Ja, nicht unbedingt, aber also ich glaub, das ist auch vielleicht vom Familienhaus son bisschen drin, dass man immer gesagt hat, okay, Du musst studieren. Mhm. Und ich hatte irgendwie im Kopf, okay, und meine Schwester hatte auch studiert und ich hab mir überlegt, okay, Du hast jetzt eine Ausbildung. Ich war noch in in der Ausbildungsphase, die geht 3 Jahre normalerweise.\n\nIch hatte verkürzt auf zweieinhalb. Und nach 2 Jahren, dadurch, dass ich das so gut verbinden konnte mit dem Praktischen und dem Theoretischen in der in der Schule, meinten meine Chefs damals, ja, die wollen auch noch mal studieren. Die waren so 10, 15 Jahre älter als ich. Die würden auch jetzt noch mal 'n Bachelor machen. Wollen wir das nicht zusammen machen?\n\nUnd ich hab dann überlegt, ja, wo können wir das machen? Und dann gab's halt diese FOM in Essen, da gibt's deutschlandweit ist sone Fachhochschule, wo man nebenberuflich halt spielen kann. Mhm. Das heißt, man geht am Wochenende dahin. Und nach dem zweiten Jahr Ausbildung hab ich dann angefangen, auch das Studium anzufangen.\n\nDas war dann Bachelor im ersten Schritt und dann hab ich noch im Master hinterhergegangen. Also ich hab auch Medien- und Webinformatik am Anfang studiert und im Master ist dann eher Richtung Management, IT Management gegangen. War sehr anstrengend. Ich hatte auch eine Freundin während der Zeit. Ich weiß nicht, wie ich's gemacht hab, möcht ich sagen, weil Du bist ja am Wochenende halt auch irgendwie in der Uni die ganze Zeit.\n\nMhm.\n\nSpeaker 0: Warum hat das Studieren im zweiten Durchlauf besser funktioniert als im ersten? Was also weil Du dann besser wusstest, was Du eigentlich wolltest oder weil das Studienangebot 'n besseres war oder weil Du mit anderen zusammen irgendwie hingegangen bist, was hat dich da durchgezogen?\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, das waren mehrere Sachen. Also das eine war, glaub ich, dass ich son klarere Linie habe hatte, über was ich jetzt mache. Weil ich ich hab am Anfang ja Java gelernt und hab so das Technische und Backend Entwicklung und so was verstanden. Und ich hatte immer son gewisses Interesse, so dieses das große Ganze zu verstehen. Deswegen fand ich schon ganz cool, dass ich Programmierung verstanden hab, Design dann auch schon im in der Ausbildung drin hatte und verstanden hab, wie man so Frontends baut und gestaltet und Logos und und all so Themen waren halt irgendwie da auch immer da.\n\nUnd dann hab ich immer mehr und mehr gesehen, okay, vieles, was ich jetzt irgendwie gelernt hab, das ist theoretisch in dem Studium da. Das heißt, ich hab da sehr gute Voraussetzungen einfach. Und mir fiel das leichter. Mir fiel das leichter, durch dieses praktische und theoretische gleichzeitig zu haben. Also als ich im Bachelorstudium angefangen hab, war ich ganz vielen schon voraus, ja.\n\nUnd man muss dazu sagen, in der Fachhochschule ist es auch eher wie in der Schule so strukturiert. Du hast so ähnlich wie Stundenpläne, die für recht fix sind. Da kommst Du Also eigentlich sollst Du immer kommen, aber ist nicht verpflichtend. Bei der Uni ist ja eher so, dass es dass Du dir deinen Stundenplan selber zusammenstellst. Ja.\n\nDadurch, dass das son bisschen mehr strukturierter war und ich auch Geld dafür gezahlt hab und ich mir gedacht hab, okay, da ist jetzt 'n gewisser Druck hinter, ich hab ich zahl dafür jeden Monat 300, 400 Euro von meinem kleinen, also was ist klein, aber war schon, war jetzt kein Großgehalt, dann hat man eine andere Motivation dahinter.\n\nSpeaker 0: Unverständlich. Wie lange bist Du dann bei dieser Firma geblieben und hast unter dem Deckmantel von Grafikdesign Software entwickelt?\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, also man muss dazu sagen, es war nicht so richtig der Deckmantel, weil das Unternehmen war 'n PrePress Team, also son Druckvorstufe. Mhm. Das ist, bevor es bevor so Sachen in den Druck gehen gehen, wird das ja mit Adobe, Photoshop und so was alles vorbereitet, Layout.\n\nSpeaker 0: Okay, dann das sag ich ganz kurz zur Unterbrechung noch mal. Wenn wenn das das Hauptfeld der der Firma, warum haben die 'n Softwareentwickler gebraucht?\n\nSpeaker 1: Genau. Da komm ich jetzt drauf. Es war ein Großunternehmen, die beispielsweise damals für Einzel für Supermärkte diese Handflyer gemacht haben, wo dann drinsteht, welche Produkte beispielsweise drin sind. Und das war 'n recht großes europäisches Unternehmen, das heißt, die hatten sehr viele Aufträge. Und wenn Du so viele Aufträge hast und viele Bilder und viele PDF Dateien, die dann in den Druck gehen, brauchst Du Server.\n\nUnd die haben eigene Server gehabt. Die haben komplett eigene Systeme gehabt, wo sehr viel IT nötig war. Und ja, da dadurch haben die irgendwann ein kleineres Unternehmen gegründet, was Mark 5 hieß. Das war, glaub ich, der Name war, glaub ich, orientiert an irgend 'nem Roboter oder so was. Ich ich kenn den Film leider nicht, aber das das war die Und in dem Team waren so 3, 4, 5 Leute, die haben im Bereich Digital Asset Management gearbeitet.\n\nUnd ich war 1 davon. Digital Asset Management, das sind so riesige Multimedia Datenbanken. Kennt ihr, habt ihr schon begehrt, glaub ich, ne. Mhm. Ja.\n\nGenau. Und dadurch kam was halt zustande und ich hab sehr viel, also mit den Leuten hab hab ich 7 Jahre insgesamt zusammengearbeitet in unterschiedlichen Unternehmen, weil die irgendwann 'n eigenes gegründet haben und ich kurze Zeit danach mit drüber gegangen bin. Aber das war so das Feld, also Javaentwicklung, dicke Asset Management, große Multimedadaten Datenbank.\n\nSpeaker 0: Cool. Und wann und wie bist Du dann in deine erste Tech Rolle mit so wirklich Verantwortung für Menschen, für Projekte, für Ja. Alles andere gekommen?\n\nSpeaker 1: Also ich muss dazu sagen, ich ich hatte schon recht viel früh Verantwortung für Projekte. Nicht so sehr für Menschen, weil wir waren am Anfang, also was heißt Also das Team war, wir waren so 4 Personen. Im Endeffekt waren's 3 Geschäftsführer und ich. 1 war mehr fokussiert auf Sales und externe Sachen, der andere eher für die Entwicklung und eine Person für Design. Und ich konnte von all diesen 3 unterschiedlichen Sachen lernen.\n\nUnd die Projekte, die wir damals hatten, ich erinner mich noch, es war gar nicht so, dass irgendwie oder oder, Grand and Backend, den Unterschied gab's gar nicht bei uns. Also Du warst irgendwie Mitarbeiter der IT und Du hast alles gemacht. Du warst dafür verantwortlich, das Frontend irgendwie zu gestalten und die Datenbankstruktur dahinter zu entwickeln. Das heißt, das ist ja jetzt erst so hochprofessionalisiert worden. Und zu dem Zeitpunkt war das gar nicht, deswegen hatt ich schon viel Eigenverantwortung für gewisse Projekte, wurd immer geführt.\n\nUnd so richtig mit Mitarbeiter, das ist eigentlich erst dann passiert, als ich das Team verlassen hab und nach meinem Studium nach Berlin gezogen bin.\n\nSpeaker 0: Was hat dich nach Berlin gezogen? War das so die klassische Start-up Goldgräberstimmung oder wie bist Du da hingekommen?\n\nSpeaker 1: Ey, würd ich nicht sagen. Also ich war gar nicht im ersten Schritt in Start ups. Ich hatte meinen Masterstudien fertig und dachte mir, okay, ich hab jetzt so lange fünfeinhalb Jahre nebenberuflich studiert und jetzt willst Du ja irgendwie was davon haben, bisschen mehr Geld verdienen. Und ich hatte ein, 2 Workshops gegeben für Unternehmen in Berlin und die fronten mich so toll und haben gefragt, ob ich nicht für die arbeiten möchte. Und gleichzeitig war hatt ich ein, 2 Freunde, die in Berlin von einem Jahr dann irgendwie nach Berlin gezogen sind, da angefangen haben zu arbeiten.\n\nUnd die hatten eine Fünfer WG und da waren Zimmer frei und das hat sich so irgendwie natürlich ergeben, würd ich würd ich sagen. Also es ging gar nicht darum so unbedingt, ich müsste jetzt in die Start ups hier eintauchen. Die ersten Unternehmen waren auch gar keine Start ups.\n\nSpeaker 0: Was waren die ersten Unternehmen für Unternehmen? Also so Größe, Branche, wie wie bist Du da so durchgekommen?\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja. Also das erste Unternehmen war sone Gruppe. Das war, gab's mehrere Unternehmen. Ich war in einem der Subunternehmen drin. Aber das Hautunternehmen, das hieß Maschine und die haben gemacht.\n\nKennt ihr das?\n\nSpeaker 0: Das sagt mir,\n\nSpeaker 2: mit Pferden zu tun?\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, genau. Das ist so diese Pferdeshow. Ja. Ich war da\n\nSpeaker 0: ich war da schon mal.\n\nSpeaker 1: Echt? Sehr gut. Ja. Ja, das ist diese Pferdeshow im Endeffekt, die, also die heißen jetzt anders, glaub ich, die europaweit getourt sind. Und die haben halt auch Subunternehmen gehabt, die sich so mit IT- und Psychografiethemen beschäftigt haben.\n\nDas heißt, die haben, sagt euch mal ja was, so Persönlichkeitstest, genau. So was haben die gemacht, aber visuell basiert. Also nicht fragen basiert.\n\nSpeaker 0: Okay.\n\nSpeaker 1: Sondern die haben das visuell gemacht, sodass Du halt nicht direkt aus der Frage schließen kann kannst und das nicht manipulieren kannst. Und das war recht interessant und die haben das für Werbung eingesetzt. Das heißt, wenn Du die, also hat man das genannt. Wenn Du jetzt, keine Ahnung, Du gehst auf irgend 'n E-Commerce-Seite und schaust dir 'n Nike Schuh an und gehst nachher auf Spiegel d e oder so was und dann siehst Du den Schuh auf einmal da wieder. Das ist ja kein Persönlichkeitsprofil angezeigt wird.\n\nDas heißt, wenn Du zum Beispiel sehr detailliert 'n detaillierter Typ bist, dann haben die dir eher Details angezeigt. Und wenn Du eher jemand bist, der so das große Ganze sehen will, dann haben die das vielleicht gezeigt, wie der Schuh jemand den Schuh anhält und grade am Laufen ist. Solche Themen haben lieb ich gemacht und ich durfte an dem System mitentwickeln.\n\nSpeaker 0: Interessant, Interessant. Wie ging deine Reise durch Berlin weiter?\n\nSpeaker 1: Genau, also ich war da Softwareentwickler und da hatt ich auch noch keine Beantwortung für Mitarbeiter. Da fing's dann an, also die nächste Station, das war ein Unternehmen, das ist aus dem deutschen Forschungszentrum für künstliche Intelligenz entstanden. Das war 'n Spin off. Und da saßen 'n paar clevere Leute zusammen, die sich in 'nem Bereich schon, also mit AI Technologien neuronalen Netzen irgendwie beschäftigt haben. Und die brauchen Softwareentwickler und haben das für den Bereich gemacht.\n\nUnd im gibt's auch, also Immobilienbranche. Da gibt's auch den Begriff Asset Management Systeme. Und da ging's darum, dass digital\n\nSpeaker 0: Und da hast Du gedacht, das hab\n\nSpeaker 2: ich schon mal gemacht.\n\nSpeaker 1: Und dann hab ich hab ich haben wurd mir das gepitcht und ich dachte, ja, Digital Asset Management kenn ich, ja. Und dann haben die auch gedacht, das ist das Gleiche. Ist aber natürlich was ganz anderes, ne. Aber trotzdem haben die gemerkt, ich hab viel Erfahrung mit PDF Dokumenten und so weiter und so fort. Und Asset Management, da geht's oft Verträge.\n\nUnd Verträge sind in PDF abgebildet, deswegen hat das schon sehr gut gepasst. Ist aber eine andere, ist Industrie einfach.\n\nSpeaker 2: Das ist cool.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja. Genau. Also\n\nSpeaker 0: das heißt, Du hattest, wann wann war das so ungefähr? In in welchen Jahren, Jahrzehnten sind wir da jetzt grad unterwegs?\n\nSpeaker 1: 2013 bin ich nach Berlin gekommen und dann 2015 bin ich zum zu dem, also Level nicht das Unternehmen, das Spin off.\n\nSpeaker 0: Okay, das war ja doch relativ früh noch im im Vergleich zu dem jetzigen AI Boom.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja. Also wir haben uns sehr früh mit AI beschäftigt, das stimmt. Also was was da vielleicht passiert ist und auch vielleicht die Erfahrung, die ich dann da gesammelt hab, die war, glaub ich, sehr prägend. Weil es war 'n Start up Szenario und wir waren 'n sehr kleines Team. Also ich war, glaub ich, der zweite oder dritte Mitarbeiter, der angestellt wurde.\n\nUnd es gab einen CTO, der Florian Kuhlmann heißt der, der war sehr gut im Bereich AI und hatte ein, 2 Researcher dabei. Und die haben im Endeffekt sich mit beschäftigt, also. Das ist so das, das sind so die Grundlagen im Endeffekt von von AI, kann man sagen, von neuronalen Netzen. Und die haben das damals, also damals gab's ja noch keinen und all so was. Sondern die haben das damals selber entwickelt, haben eigene Strukturen entwickelt, eigene entwickelt und haben dann überlegt, okay, das muss ja irgendwie skalieren.\n\nWeil also der deren Idee war zu sagen, wir haben ganz viele Unternehmen, riesige Immobilienunternehmen, die haben Immobilien überall in der Welt und möchten irgendwie eine Übersicht über ihr Portfolio haben. Und das kannst Du halt eigentlich nur rauskriegen, wenn Du diese Verträge dir anschaust. Und das ist sehr teuer. Das heißt, Du musst das in den Anwalt schicken und dann muss der Anwalt das durchlesen und schreibt dir dann manuell raus, wer ist der Mieter, wer Vermieter und wie viel Gold kostet das? Ja.\n\nUnd das konntest Du mit dem System machen. Das heißt, das System hat die PDF Dokumente mit OCR Technologie ausgelesen und dann, also beziehungsweise Klassifizierung am Anfang gemacht und dann, herauszufinden, okay, das ist der Name des Landlords, das ist der Name des Vermieters und so weiter und so fort. Wie muss ich\n\nSpeaker 0: mir so was in der praktischen alltäglichen Zusammenarbeit vorstellen, wo Du grad sagst, na ja, Du kamst jetzt aus soner sehr pragmatischen Softwareentwicklungswelt, sag ich mal, ja. Und jetzt arbeitet er zusammen mit Leuten, die eher ausm Researchfeld vielleicht noch kommen. Wie was was für Unterschiede tun sich da so auf in der Zusammenarbeit? Was muss man da vielleicht auch überbrücken mal?\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, also man hat schon gemerkt, dass also der Florian selber, der war eigentlich 'n ganz guter Softwareentwickler. Der war noch besser in dem Research Thema, würd ich sagen. Und man hat schon gemerkt, dass dass die Researcher nicht so sehr, also Designpatterns oder so kennen die nicht, ne. Oder also Dokumentation oder Variablen gut zu benennen und solche Sachen, das war schon schwierig oder auch Tests oder so was zu schreiben. Das heißt, da gab's dann schon irgendwie Probleme.\n\nUnd meine Aufgabe war es, denen dabei zu helfen, dass sie eine entwickeln, die ich dann in einem Produkt skalieren kann. Ja, also ich hab die ich hab im Endeffekt die Engine geschrieben als Webservice. Aber das, was die gemacht haben auf Ebene, das war wirklich sehr dediziert und klein gedacht. Und ich musste einfach sichergehen, dass die das in 'ner Form bauen, dass das dennoch skalierbar ist.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja. Und wie viel in diesem Unterschied in der Zusammenarbeit war son, ich sag mal, son son Skill Gap vielleicht einfach, ja? Weil für die einen ist halt Programmierung die Hauptaufgabe, für die anderen ist es nur Mittel zum Zweck. Ja. Und wie viel war aber auch, boah, ich ich will da jetzt niemanden beleidigen, ne, aber son Verständnis fürs Business halt auch.\n\nWeil ich kann mir vorstellen, wenn Du aus 'ner Research Ecke kommst, in sone Firma reinkommst, dann ist ja so, ne, am Ende profitabel sein und son Produkt auf die Straße bringen und so. Das ja jetzt nicht so das Mindset, mit dem Du die letzten paar Jahre an der Uni wahrscheinlich unterwegs warst. Ja. Und und wie finden findet man da so zusammen?\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja.\n\nSpeaker 0: Oder ist das überhaupt gar kein Problem und ich unterstell hier einfach nur was, ne? Ich weiß nicht.\n\nSpeaker 1: Nee, also bei uns war's nicht son großes Problem, weil wir die Verantwortlichkeiten recht klar definiert hatten. Also Okay. Der Researcher ist gar nicht so auf die Idee gekommen, irgendwie jetzt Produkteentscheidungen treffen zu wollen oder so was. Der war zwar einbezogen und der hat das auch mit verstanden, aber es war schon recht klar organisiert. Und das hat der damalige CTO auch sehr gut gemacht.\n\nAlso vor allem in diesem kleinen Szenario wird das ja gut organisiert. Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 2: Es wurd\n\nSpeaker 1: 'n bisschen schwieriger, als es größer geworden ist, aber das ist, glaub ich, auch normal. Mhm. Ja. Also zumindest seh ich das immer.\n\nSpeaker 0: Okay. Okay. Und wie lange bist Du da geblieben und warum bist Du heute nicht mehr da?\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, also ich ich war ich war 3 Jahre da. Und in der Zeit bin ich, nach einem Jahr ungefähr bin ich Director of Engineering geworden, weil wir sind recht stark gewachsen. Ich hab diese entwickelt, die war recht hoch skalierbar. Da fing das auch immer mehr an, in AWS, also in die Cloud zu ziehen. Und wir hatten internationale Kunden.\n\nEs gab 'n Office in London, 1 in New York. Und meine Aufgaben haben sich sehr stark dann verändert. Also ich war dann irgendwann nicht mehr dafür verantwortlich, die Engine zu entwickeln, sondern meine Aufgabe war irgendwie, 30 Mitarbeiter zu führen. Und da bin ich 'n bisschen ins kalte Wasser gesprungen, hab auch bestimmt viele Sachen falsch gemacht. Aber auf die Frage noch mal zu antworten, also 3 Jahre bin ich geblieben.\n\nDas Unternehmen wurd, ich glaub, 2019, glaub ich, verkauft in die USA. Und ich bin 2018 rausgegangen. Und zwar war es so, dass es sich schon sehr stark verändert hatte. Also kulturell war das sehr, sehr anders geworden. Und es gab 'n gewissen Druck von Investoren auch, wo ich dann auch irgendwann gemerkt hab, okay, ich komm hier nicht weiter.\n\nUnd ja, das war eigentlich der Hauptgrund, dass ich gemerkt hab, okay, man kommt hier nicht weiter.\n\nSpeaker 0: Aber trotzdem hat sich ja da schon für dich gezeigt, zumindest impliziert das dein Lebenslauf ja so, dass so dieses dieses Leadershipp Thema schon was ist, was dich interessiert. Also vielleicht war die Umgebung nicht mehr die richtige, aber die die Rolle ja irgendwie schon.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja. Ja, schon. Aber das das hatt ich sogar schon während der Ausbildung. Also meine damaligen Chefs, die haben sich damals schon immer irgendwie so mit unterschiedlichen Sachen beschäftigt. Und das hab ich auch von denen gelernt.\n\nAlso nicht nur irgendwie sich mit den technischen Sachen zu beschäftigen, sondern auch zu schauen, wie Organisationen funktionieren, wie kann man gut zusammenarbeiten? Auch so Managementmethoden und solche Sachen. Das hatt ich schon recht früh und auch 'n recht frühes Interesse daran. Ich konnt's und deswegen hab ich ja auch Management studiert im Endeffekt. Ich konnt's halt nie so richtig einsetzen und da war's so die erste Zeit, wo ich's dann auch für dich einsetzen konnte.\n\nSpeaker 2: Mhm. Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und wenn Du dann gesagt hast, okay, die Umgebung hat nicht mehr gepasst, wie hast Du die nächste richtige Umgebung für dich gefunden?\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, durch Ausprobieren. Also, weil weil es war jetzt nicht so, dass ich dann gesagt hab, okay, jetzt weiß ich genau, was ich machen will, sondern es gab dann, ich hatte mehrere Stationen dann, wo ich dann CTO war für ungefähr ein Jahr und dann schauen musste, wie ich das wie ich das hinbekomme in 'ner anderen Unternehmen, ob das ähnlich ist, ob die meine Skills auch benötigen. Und das hat sich oft herausgestellt, dass das was anderes ist. Weil wenn Du wenn Du beispielsweise als Softwareentwickler in die Rolle von der Führungskraft reinwächst, dann ist das 'n irgendwie 'n natürlicher Prozess. Alle akzeptieren das, alle sehen das.\n\nWenn Du überhaupt von außen jetzt reinkommst und da gibt's schon irgendwie 10 Mitarbeiter, dann denken die sich, ah, okay, wer ist er denn jetzt, ne. Also das ist dann son bisschen eigenartig, da jetzt auch wenn man eine neue Person ist, die jetzt auch wenn man irgendwie vielleicht den Ton angeben soll. Und wenn Du dann so der Typ bist, der dann sagt, okay, jetzt machen wir alles anders, dann funktioniert das halt nicht lange. Das hab ich nicht jetzt gemacht in dem Fall, ne. Aber ich hab schon gemerkt, dass das nicht so richtig das ist, was ich mir wünsche, weil ich nicht frei entscheiden konnte.\n\nAlso das, was ich zum Beispiel in meiner ersten Zeit als in der Ausbildung und auch in dem ersten Start-up, wo ich gearbeitet hab, ich hatte recht viele Freiheiten. Ich konnte frei entscheiden, das ist das, was ich immer mir gewöhnt hab. Und in den anderen Unternehmen war's dann immer so, Du warst dann der Dienstleister IT und musst Du liefern. Und Du warst auch irgendwie nicht die Person, die irgendwie mit einbezogen wurde in die Businessentscheidung, sondern es hieß, ja, ja, mach das mal jetzt im Endeffekt. Und das hat mir halt irgendwann hab ich gemerkt, okay, das ist nicht das, was ich mir, wie ich mir das vorstelle.\n\nSpeaker 2: Wie bist Du an die unterschiedlichen Jobs damals gekommen? Also waren, hast Du dich da irgendwie, hast Du, waren das immer Bekanntschaften, Freunde? War das einfach irgendwie Bewerbungen oder war das 'n Netzwerk, wo Du dann drin warst oder so was? Waren so, wie konntest Du verschiedene Rollen als als CTO ausprobieren?\n\nSpeaker 1: Das waren immer. Also es es gibt, glaub ich, keinen, der irgendjemanden aufs Ziel Level reinlässt, ohne dass man irgendwie die Person schon son bisschen kennt oder irgendwie Also hab ich zumindest sehr selten gesehen. Bei mir war alles die Opposition, die ich hatte. Das war, vorher gab's da 'n Mitarbeiter, der vorher mit mir zusammengearbeitet hat und der wusste, wie ich die Organisationsstruktur in 'nem anderen Unternehmen aufgebaut hab. Und der gesagt hat, okay, Paymann hat das sehr gut in dem Team gemacht.\n\nDer kann das bei uns machen. Wir sind, haben die gleiche Challenge. Wir sind jetzt auch irgendwie 30 Mitarbeiter, wir müssen auf 50 an wachsen in den nächsten ein, 2 Jahren und dann haben die mich dazu geholt. Mhm. Ich\n\nSpeaker 0: überleg grad, ich hab das, glaub ich, auch noch nie anders erlebt auf dem Level, dass so wirklich, weiß ich nicht, ob der Bewerbungsprozess oder?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, es gibt ja schon, also das, was schon da hier und da, was wir auch, glaub ich, hier schon mal im Podcast hatten, dass es halt explizite Recruiter gibt, ne, die schon auch auf der Ebene das nur machen und da ein\n\nSpeaker 1: Aber das ist ja\n\nSpeaker 0: zumindest sone Proxyempfehlung, weil dann hörst Du ja zumindest auf deinen Recruiter.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja. So, ne. Klar. Also ja, dass sie einfach ausgeschrieben ist, ist, glaub ich, nicht so häufig.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ich glaub, im öffentlichen Dienst geht das. Also da\n\nSpeaker 0: Da musst Du's ja. Also da, die sind ja dazu verpflichtet, das das zu machen. Aber so, selbst wenn es jetzt jemand war, der nicht schon mit Ziel Level Erfahrung gekommen ist, dann war's meistens so. Ich hab mit dem mal in 'ner vorherigen Rolle zusammengearbeitet, als wir beide noch,\n\nSpeaker 1: Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ne, weiß nicht, auf 'nem Senior- oder Head of irgendwas Level waren. Jetzt mach ich hier meine Firma und hätt ihn gerne als mein CTO, CFO, was auch immer so. Ja. Ja.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ich kann das auch verstehen, warum das so ist. Also man braucht ja viel Vertrauen, jemanden auf dem Labor reinzulassen. Deswegen gehen die Gespräche auch so lange. Also wenn ich jetzt, ich ich stell ja selber auch teilweise, wenn ich in Unternehmen zurzeit reingeh, CTOs ein, die mich dann replacen. Aber auch damals war's halt immer so, die dauern 3 bis 6 Monate manchmal die Gespräche, weil man sich will sich ja schon irgendwie sicher sein, dass das gut funktioniert.\n\nJa. Dann dann,\n\nSpeaker 2: ich glaub, das haben wir am Anfang ja eigentlich gesagt, das sagen wir sonst am Anfang zumindest. Geh mal 'n kurzen Hinweis darauf, was machst Du denn eigentlich heute?\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja. Was ich heute mache so hab\n\nSpeaker 0: ich auch grad gesagt. Muss ich noch ranschneiden. Was ist die Belohnung für alle Hörerinnen, die jetzt für 10 Minuten dabei geblieben sind, ohne zu wissen, auf was sie sich eingelassen haben?\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, also dadurch, dass ich dass ich bei bei dem ersten Start-up so diese Erfahrungen gemacht hab, wie man selber in die Rolle reinwächst und was für organisatorische Wachstumsschmerzen man so hat, haben mich danach eigentlich immer wieder einzelne Start up Freunde gefragt, okay, hast Du 'n Tipp für uns? Und denen hab ich das am Anfang für mich umsonst irgendwie erzählt, wie ich das gemacht hab. Und irgendwann kamen Leute auf mich zu, die kannte ich nicht. Und dann dacht ich mir, okay, da kann ich auch Geld für verlangen. Und dann hat sich das son bisschen so natürlich entwickelt, dass ich immer mehr in sone Richtung Beratung, Coaching, Interim, CTO Rollen so in die Richtung entwickelt hab.\n\nUnd das mach ich jetzt seit 5 Jahren.\n\nSpeaker 0: Dann ist ja gut, dass wir vorher schon mal gesprochen hatten und wir uns quasi kannten, bevor wir diesen Podcast angefangen haben. Sonst müssten wir jetzt auch noch zahlen hier. Wie wie muss ich mir das vorstellen, Coaching auf soner Ebene? Von von wem geht da der der Erstkontakt irgendwie aus? Also wer sucht dich?\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja. Ich mach's mal an einem Beispiel. Ich war, es gab 'n Start-up in Berlin, das wurd von, also ist ja öffentlich auch. Die heißen oder hießen Data, auch Immobiliensektor, weil das so, wenn Du einmal im Immobiliensektor erfolgreich warst, kommen alle aus dem gleichen Bereich und wollen auch. Und die wurden von Moody's in den USA eingekauft.\n\nMhm. Also sie haben gekauft. Und da ging's darum, sich Einzelgliedern und in das IT System von denen Und die hatten sehr guten, also das Start-up hat einen sehr guten VP of Engineering. Und der war aber sehr techgy, also der war sehr tief in der Programmierung noch drin und hat eigentlich Vorsicht die gehabt, die ich jetzt in der Vergangenheit hatte, mehr in diese organisatorische Rolle reinzuwachsen. Und der musste irgendwann mit dem CEO von Moody sprechen.\n\nUnd die anderen, also die die Partner von dem Start-up, die dachten, okay, wir brauchen halt irgendjemanden, der ihn darauf vorbereitet. Und dann haben wir so ein, 2 Jahre 'n Coaching gemacht. Das heißt, wir haben uns alle ein, 2 Wochen getroffen, Sessions gemacht. Ich hab Workshops mit ihm gegeben, ihm akut bei gewissen Sachen einfach zu helfen. Aber ihm auch selber sone Perspektive zu geben, in welche Richtung er sich entwickeln könnte.\n\nUnd das waren oft so technische Sachen, aber meistens sind's auch irgendwie ganz normale Sachen, die man so im Umgang mit Mitarbeitern und so was auch irgendwie, also Probleme da zu besprechen und solche Sachen. Und das hat, also mir hat das viel Spaß gemacht und er ist irgendwann dann, wenn ich mich richtig erinnere, hätte auf geworden dann irgendwo dies. Mhm. Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 0: So. Warum ich frag, ist, weil ich mir so Consulting auf auf C-Level Ebene schwierig vorstelle, weil grade in kleineren oder jüngeren Firmen natürlich so das sehr an einzelnen Personen hängt, ja. Die die ganze Firma, der der Erfolg, das Vertrauen in die Firmaeien, auch von den Mitarbeitern und so was, ja. Und dann ja natürlich sie sich Hilfesuchen, ganz schnell falsch gelesen werden kann als Hilfe brauchen, überfordert sein, nicht mehr weiterkommen und so weiter, ja. Und da stell ich mir schon vor, dass es da sone gewisse Hemmschwelle gibt, son Angebot dann irgendwie zu suchen, in Anspruch zu nehmen und so weiter, weil ja Reputation da schon irgendwie kritisch ist in soner Phase.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, das stimmt völlig. Also in dem Fall war's einigermaßen, also da da war das Problem gar nicht so groß. Weil das Management hat hat das initiiert. Und da hätte der VP schon das Gefühl haben können, okay, die vertrauen mir nicht, dass ich das hinbekomme.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, zum Beispiel, ne.\n\nSpeaker 1: Aber er hatte er hatte selber, glaub ich, interne Gespräche mit denen vorher und hat sich das, glaub ich, auch gewünscht. Also er war waren\n\nSpeaker 0: die ja auch in trockenen Tüchern nach soner Übernahme, ja.\n\nSpeaker 1: Aber wenn\n\nSpeaker 0: wir jetzt auf soner freien Marktsituation unterwegs sind, dann ist das vielleicht auch noch mal was anderes, oder? Ich mein, weiß nicht, wie wie kommst Du sonst zu deinen anderen Klienten?\n\nSpeaker 1: Also das Coachingszenario, das mach ich nicht so oft.\n\nSpeaker 0: Okay.\n\nSpeaker 1: Meistens meistens, also am liebsten mach ich wirklich Beratung als Externer, so als Sprengtspartner. Aber das, was am, was schon häufig vorkommt, ist so internen CTO Rollen und das sind halt Feuerwehrmann Situationen. Das heißt, es brennt wirklich grade, der jetzige CTO ist aus einem Grund nicht mehr da. Oder man weiß, dass er kurz, dass dass er wegfallen wird. Manchmal auch Elternzeit einfach nur.\n\nAber da musst Du dann wirklich reinspringen und tiefer auch mit dem Unternehmen arbeiten. Und die Szenarien, da gibt's eigentlich dann, weil der ehemalige C-Dur ist ja dann nicht mehr da, deswegen hast Du das Problem in dem Fall nicht so. Da hast Du eher das Problem, das bestehende Team davon zu überzeugen, dass Du eine gute Wahl bist für diese Zeit. Und in dem Szenario such ich dann auch oft zukünftige CTOs. Also ich mach das auch mit Recruiter.\n\nIch mach das nicht komplett selber, aber dass so das Szenario dann oft.\n\nSpeaker 0: Wie ist das? Wie wie muss ich mir das vorstellen, wenn Du irgendwo reinkommst und schon mit soner begrenzten Verweildauer ja quasi das von vornherein klar ist, ja? Wie schafft man das dann trotzdem, da Vertrauen aufzubauen? Weil ja natürlich der zynische Betrachter sagen kann so, ja, der der der Perman, der kommt ja an und der erzählt mir irgendwas, aber in 18 Monaten ist er wieder weg und der kann ja gar kein langfristiges intrinsisches Interesse haben. Verstehst Du, was ich mein?\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja. Also ich ich geh rein in die Sachen und versuch jeden eigentlich klar zu machen, dass für jeden, was da drin ist, wenn wir das jetzt zusammen zusammen jetzt einfach stemmen für die nächsten 6 Monate beispielsweise. Und es gibt auch schon so gewisse Ziele, auf die irgendwie erreicht werden sollen. Die sind im Start up Bereich oft verändern die sich auch. Aber eigentlich will man ja immer Verbesserungen erzielen.\n\nUnd ich erarbeite das meistens mit den, also eigentlich immer mit den Teams zusammen, weil anders geht das gar nicht. Du kannst das nicht top down irgendwie entscheiden. Vor allem, wenn Du externer bist und gar nicht so tief in der Materie bist. Du brauchst ja die Expertise von den Leuten, die irgendwie schon 4, 5 Jahre dran arbeiten. Das heißt, ich mach oft so am Anfang ja, so Art Workshop, wo alle zusammenkommen und Also ich hab das früher immer so genannt, was würdest Du machen, wenn Du der CTO bist?\n\nUnd jeder kommt halt mit den Ideen die Ecke, was man sich vorstellt, was man gern machen würde. Und dadurch schafft man eigentlich recht offen zu sehen, okay, was denken die einzelnen Leute, was für Probleme, was ich vielleicht aufn ersten Blick auch nicht gesehen hätte, dann irgendwie gemeinsam eine Strategie und eine Roadmap aufzustellen für die nächsten 6 Monate, was realistisch ist und dann deren Commitment auch zu haben.\n\nSpeaker 2: Wie fix hängst Du so an einem Modell oder an 1 Art von Unternehmensstruktur, Führung, wie Dev Teams aufgebaut sind und und hältst das so für das Richtige oder wie flexibel muss man sein? Weil ich stell mir so vor, ne, Du hast irgendwie Erfahrung, Du hast verschiedene Jahre irgendwie deinen deinen deinen Lebenslauf, den wir jetzt gehört haben, gehabt. Und also bei mir ist es vielleicht anders, ich hab nicht besonders viel gesehen. Ich bin jetzt seit 15 Jahren beim gleichen Unternehmen und ne und trotzdem, also haben sich ja Dinge etabliert und ich würde auch sagen, bei uns viele Dinge, die sehr gut gelaufen sind und das ist ja dann irgendwie 'n Modell, was man im Kopf hat, wo man sagt so, ne, das ist 1, was funktioniert. Und das würde gerne man irgendwie so auf dann andere stülpen und sagen, damit muss es ja auch funktionieren.\n\nAlso ist es praktisch, hast Du so ein ein Set an funktionierenden, für dich funktionierendem System? Sagst Du sagst, okay, in dieser Größe mit den Herausforderungen so, das sind die Lösungen dafür? Oder ist es eher, dass Du sagst, na ja, wichtiger ist es, da anzufangen, wo das Unternehmen ist und darauf basierend oder das weiterzutragen?\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja. Ja. Also beides. Ich hab natürlich 'n gewisses Set an Methoden, die man nutzen kann. Also ihr kennt das ja alles selber wahrscheinlich.\n\nDas Spotify File Modell mit und so was, Scrum, Kanban Methoden und so was. Das kann man alles nutzen, aber final kommt's im Endeffekt drauf an, ob das Team das auch umsetzen möchte und da daran glaubt. Weil dass das alle, also Du kannst die beste Methode aufsetzen, wenn das Team keine Lust hat, da so zu arbeiten, dann passiert das nicht. Deswegen versuch ich oft, auch Sachen zu kombinieren und das in Format aufzustellen, sodass das Team das selber erarbeitet. Ich glaub, das ist auch der Grund, warum niemand so strikt nach Scrum beispielsweise arbeitet.\n\nDas ist halt einfach, es gibt einfach gewisse Bedürfnisse, die in Teams da sind, wo man sich nicht so strikt an so gewisse Modelle einfach halten kann. Und ich versuch, das sehr individuell zu machen, jedem den Fragen zu geben.\n\nSpeaker 2: Und greifst Du typischerweise eine Seite? Also bist Du eher auf der Seite der Entwickler*innen und sagst so, okay, ne, ich gucke nach dem und versuche das von mir aus auch auf auf Sea Ebene irgendwie durchzudrücken oder die die Perspektive zu teilen? Oder sagst Du, nee, Unternehmen oder Unternehmenskultur ist so stark auch geprägt von, ja, den Gründern oder den der der den Ziel Levelpositionen, da sich auch eher darauf hören muss, was dort gewünscht ist, wie sich das, wie wir es strukturieren wollen?\n\nSpeaker 1: Also ich glaub, sich auf eine Seite zu stellen, ist meistens eigentlich der falsche Weg. Weil wenn man das macht, ist ja die andere Seite im Endeffekt dann stark benachteiligt. Deswegen versuch ich eigentlich immer, sich über die Brücke zu schlagen und die Kommunikation zwischen diesen Bereichen auch zu machen. Das ist nicht nur unbedingt Business und Technologie, sondern auch oft auch schon Produkt- und Technologieentwicklung. Im besten Fall geht das Hand in Hand, aber das ist oft nicht der Fall.\n\nDa gibt's manchmal einfach unterschiedliche Abteilungen, die das komplett machen und ist gar so integriert. Und das heißt, ich versuch das eigentlich immer auf beiden Seiten zu vermitteln. Und man schafft das ganz gut, wenn man die Business Goals daran anknüpft und das erklärt den den Leuten, die in der IT arbeiten, damit klarer wird, wofür die eigentlich arbeiten und warum man gewisse Sachen einfach versucht zu erzählen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Du hast so grad 'n wichtigen Punkt angesprochen mit dem Brücken bauen. Und Du bist ja, wenn Du quasi extern in son Unternehmen reinkommst, immer erst mal in der Position, dich einarbeiten zu müssen. So, das eine natürlich technisch und in in das Produkt und da können wir bestimmt auch gleich noch mal drüber sprechen, was da so Strategien sind. Das andere ist ja aber menschlich. Also ich war nur einmal in meinem Leben in soner WPCTO Rolle.\n\nUnd ich muss sagen, ich hab da massiv von profitierter Zeit mit dem Unternehmen mitgewachsen bin. Du kennst die die die Mitgründer, Du kennst die die Leute, die irgendwie die anderen Teams auch leiten und so was alles. Und das ist ja, also hat bei mir zumindest maßgeblich dafür den Erfolg zu beigetragen, ja. Jetzt kommt man ja extern in son Unternehmen rein und hat genau diese Beziehung ja eben nicht. Mhm.\n\nSo, wie wie gelingt einem dann das Brückenbauen und wie nähert man sich so Menschen an, wenn man das mit dem Fuß aufm Gaspedal machen muss?\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja. Also so ganz ohne Referenz komm ich ja meistens nicht rein. Das heißt, es gibt schon irgendwie jemanden, der mich empfohlen hat und der dann Also wenn Du jemanden empfiehlst, heißt das ja, ich vertrau der Person. Und meistens ist das jemand ausm Management, wo dann gewisse Basis Vertrauenswürdigkeit da ist. Und dann remote find ich's schwierig, ja.\n\nAber oft ist es halt dann auch so, dass wenn Sie 'n Office haben, ich sehr oft im Office bin. Also ich versuch wirklich dann immer da zu sein und die Leute kennenzulernen. Und was ich denen oft auch die ersten Schritte mache, ist sone Bestandsaufnahme. Also es ist son bisschen wie eine Tech Dudeligence. Mhm.\n\nIch nenn's eher Healthcheck, einfach tief zu verstehen, wie in welchem Stadium ist eigentlich die Abteilung Produkt und Technologie. Und basierend darauf dann zu entscheiden, was sind jetzt die nächsten Schritte, die man eigentlich machen müsste für die nächsten 6 bis 8, 9 Monate? Und in diesem Health Check Szenario interview ich viele. Also ich sprech mit vielen und da lernt man sich kennen, man geht gemeinsam zu Mittag. Ab und zu gibt's Events in den Unternehmens, wo ich dann auch versuch, dabei zu sein.\n\nUnd so kommt man eigentlich dazu, dass da 'n gewisses Vertrauen da ist. Und die Leute fragen mich ja auch, was hast Du vorher gemacht? Was hast Du vorher gearbeitet? Was für Projekte hast Du entwickelt? Und eine gewisse Erfahrung hab ich.\n\nUnd da, das sorgt dafür, dass die Leute dann auch sagen, okay, der hat schon mal so was schon in der Vergangenheit gemacht. Und ich kann davon auch profitieren und mich zum Beispiel auch weiterentwickeln. Letztes Mal gab's zum Beispiel einen, der wollte auch CTO werden, der war noch Softwareentwickler und hat mich dann auch intensiver gefragt, in welchen welchen Pfad er einschlagen könnte, wie er's machen könnte. Und ich glaub, so was ist schon interessant für Entwickler.\n\nSpeaker 2: Wenn Du jetzt so in verschiedenste Teams gehst, dann dann siehst Du ja auch irgendwie für sehr unterschiedliche Konstellationen, wie die Leute irgendwie zusammenarbeiten und würdest Du wirklich sagen, die die Probleme, die in den Unternehmen existieren, die sind sehr individuell oder ist das irgendwie doch immer son Einheitsbrei und sagt so, na, wenn man die Stellschraube hat, die sei überall die gleiche und dann dann hat man irgendwie die Lösung für, wie das Team besser werden kann. Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 1: Also auf dem ersten Blick sind die immer recht identisch, die Probleme. Und aufm zweiten Blick, wenn man detaillierter reingeht, merkt man dann schon, dass es schon irgendwie 'n anderes Business ist und die Probleme irgendwie anders gehandhabt werden müssen. Also es ist schon sehr individuell aus meiner Sicht. Aber ausm ersten Blick ist es einfach, wo man denkt, okay, ist einfach 'n strukturelles Problem. Es gab zum Beispiel ein Team, das hatte irgendwie 15 Mitarbeiter und eine Person hat die geführt, wo ich mir dachte, okay, ich wunder mich jetzt nicht, warum das nicht funktioniert.\n\nJa. Aber die Leute wissen das einfach nicht. Also weil die die Erfahrung einfach vorher nicht gemacht haben und sich auch denken, okay cool, ich hab 15 Mitarbeiter kann ich jetzt anleiten. Aber merk dann erst später, okay, 15 Mitarbeiter haben Bedürfnisse, die wollen mit dir sprechen, die wollen one 9 Gespräche haben. Und wenn ich 14 Dark Reports hab, dann bin ich jeden Tag in Meetings und hab keine Zeit für irgendwas anderes mehr.\n\nUnd ja, dann fängt man dann an zu sagen, okay, lass uns das mal anders strukturieren.\n\nSpeaker 0: Was lachst Du so gern? Ich ich hatte mal übergangsweise sone Situation mit 16 Leuten. Weil mir ein Ich dachte, ich dachte, ich hab Nee, weil mir son Teamlead mal ausgefallen war, dann hab ich das kurzfristig mit übernommen. Und da bist Du schon, also da ist deine Woche im Prinzip gelaufen. So, so.\n\nJa.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ich hatte das auch. Ich hatte 13 direct Reports und man kommt zu nichts anderes. Also Du lernst, morgens gehst Du rein, machst Meetings one on ons und am Freitag bist Du abends wieder raus. Also das war schon 'n bisschen, also ist auch frustrierend für einen selber, find ich, weil man dann irgendwie gar nicht das Gefühl hat, dass man effektiv ist.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und ich muss auch sagen, ich find so one on one und und diese Art von Gesprächen und was da so ad hoc alles passiert, auch anstrengender. Ich mein das gar nicht abwertend für die Leute, weil sie jetzt mit ihrem Problem zu mir kommen oder so. Aber ich find das schwieriger, als wenn ich jetzt einen Tag lang nur Produktmeetings oder Technical Review oder wo Du halt son bisschen mehr weißt, ne, was erwartet dich da? Was wird von dir erwartet? Was kannst Du beitragen?\n\nDa da ist so so alles 'n bisschen vorgegebener und in gelenkteren Bahnen. Und in in so oder Skip Level one on onons so was, da kann ja alles passieren. So, da da kommst Du rein und da ist Wundertüte, wenn Du reinkommst so, ja. Und das fand ich immer son bisschen schlauchender so am Ende des Tages, was so das persönliche Energielevel angeht einfach.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja. Das stimmt. Und also ich glaub, das liegt auch daran, wenn Du so viele hast, kannst Du nicht so nah an den Leuten sein. Also wenn Du 'n kleineres Team hast, dann sprichst Du ja täglich eigentlich miteinander. Und man merkt dann, glaub ich, auch wenn irgendwie 'n Problem da ist, viel früher und man braucht gar nicht warten, bis jetzt das One on One Meeting irgendwie ansteht.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja. Ja. Okay. Jetzt haben wir über über Teams gesprochen. Vielleicht noch mal auf die Frage, die ich eben gestellt hab.\n\nDu musstest ja nicht nur mit den Leuten irgendwie gut stellen und alle kennenlernen und verstehen, sondern auch son bisschen immer mit der Materie, mit der Technik, mit der Domäne, mit dem Stack. Wie wie arbeitest Du da jetzt ein? Wenn jetzt, weiß nicht, morgen kommt eine Firma, die braucht Hilfe von dir und die machen, ja, ich weiß nicht, was Du noch nicht gemacht hast, die machen Inforance Software in Kobol oder so was.\n\nSpeaker 1: Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja. Wie was sind so deine ersten 3 Punkte auf deiner Agenda, da reinzukommen?\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja. Also mit diesen, von dem ich erzählt hab, der bringt mir viel, einfach tiefer reinzukommen. Und meistens ist das so, wenn ich jetzt wirklich sone Interim Citro Rolle nehme, dass ich ja gar nicht der Experte für all diese Bereiche sein muss. Sondern es geht oft darum, eigentlich eher das auszurichten und strategisch zu entscheiden, in welche Richtung das gehen sollte. Das heißt, ich überlasse den Mitarbeitern, die jetzt 'n Kobold Experte, Kobold Entwickler, dem überlass ich das.\n\nDas ist jetzt nicht so, dass ich da reingeh und das versuch in die Tiefe alles zu verstehen. Sondern da geht's eher darum, die richtigen Punkte aufzugreifen, sodass die Probleme, die man bislang hat, ja, Millimeter sind und man besser zusammenarbeiten kann.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, aber es gibt doch trotzdem sonen Bereich, in dem man sein will zwischen, also Du willst kein kein Mikromanagement betreiben, das versteh ich schon, ja, und die sollen ihre eigenen Fachentscheidung treffen. Aber Du musst ja trotzdem tief genug drinstecken, zu merken, wenn dir irgendjemand Bullshit erzählt. So, ja, wenn jetzt dein Kobol Entwickler ankommt und sagt, na ja, wir bauen jetzt das Frontend übrigens auch in Kobol und haben da so über, weiß es nicht, Web Assembley eine Kobol Run Time für deinen Browser gebaut und die nehmen wir jetzt, von jetzt an alles UI- mäßige zu bauen. Da müsst ja irgendwann son bisschen die Alarmglocken angehen. Ja, Ja, und deswegen meinte, son bisschen muss man da schon irgendwie reinkommen, oder?\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja. Also es gibt ja natürlich so TechStac Formate, wo man dann überlegt, was natürlich nur Tierentscheidungen man treffen möchte. Aber die mach ich gemeinsam mit dem Team. Die mach ich nicht top down. Da geh ich gemeinsam rein, erzähl denen, was ich so aus der Vergangenheit kenne, was gut bei mir funktioniert hat.\n\nDas Team erzählt, was sie sich vorstellen. Und dann überlegt man, was ist wirklich der richtige Weg. Also dein Beispiel ist jetzt extrem, glaube ich. Aber ich glaub, da kommt man im Team auch schon Also da bin ich auch nicht der Einzige, dann der sagt, nee, das funktioniert so nicht. Sondern da ist dann meistens so, dass andere auch im Team irgendwie mitarbeiten.\n\nEs gibt zum Beispiel ein Thema, was ich mal hatte, da gab's 'n etwas älteren Mitarbeiter, der Maven genutzt hat immer.\n\nSpeaker 0: Mhm. Und da\n\nSpeaker 1: gab's 'n anderen, der wollte unbedingt gradel nutzen. Und gradel war da recht neu und frisch. Und\n\nSpeaker 0: Also Java Bild Tools für die Leute da draußen, ne?\n\nSpeaker 1: Genau. Und da ging's halt darum, ja, was nutzen wir jetzt? Und ich, da war, das war meine erste Rolle, wo ich 'n bisschen Leadershipfunktion war. Und ich hatte da gar keinen Also ich fand zwar groovy und gradel cool, aber ich dachte mir, okay, Mavin ist etabliert. Ist schon nicht verkehrt so, ne.\n\nKönnte man auch nutzen. Ich hatte da gar keine harte Richtlinie im Kopf, okay, das müssen wir jetzt so machen. Und dann hab ich die 'n bisschen gegeneinander antreten lassen im Endeffekt. Dann hab ich denen gesagt, okay, zeig mal, warum deins so cool ist. Zeig mal, warum Gradu so cool ist.\n\nZeig mal, warum Mavin so cool ist. Und dann haben die sich das gegenseitig präsentiert und dann hat der eine gemerkt, okay, ich schreib hier irgendwie 100 Zeilen, irgendwas zu machen und der andere macht das in 5 Zeilen in in in Gradule, weil das einfach eine Programmiersprache ist, die geil genutzt wird und nicht XML. Und dann sind bei den Leuten einfach selber die Lichter aufgegangen. Und das ist natürlich der beste Fall, ne. Also das ist jetzt schon Szenario, das ich beschreibe, was ja der beste Fall ist, wo das Team das selber lernt.\n\nDa der Respekt zwischen diesem neuen Mitarbeiter und dem älteren Mitarbeiter dann auch irgendwie gewachsen ist und dass Merz dann geschweißt wurde.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, also ist ja cool, wenn das läuft. Ich hätte jetzt nur erwartet, weil Du ja vorhin auch gesagt hast, Du bist halt oft auch irgendwie als Feuerwehrmann unterwegs, dass ja man dann vielleicht grade eher in so Situationen kommt, wo halt nicht so cool funktionale Teams irgendwie da sind, sondern ne, da son bisschen mehr Aufräumarbeit irgendwie erst mal noch gebraucht hat und vielleicht auch mal son bisschen mehr Führung und Händchenhalten irgendwie erforderlich ist. Aber wenn wenn das trotzdem mit den Teams so klappt, dann ist es ja umso\n\nSpeaker 1: besser. Ja, also es gibt natürlich auch Szenarien, wo das nicht so gut funktioniert. Aber es liegt meistens daran, weil die Verantwortlichkeiten nicht klar sind. Also im Start-up ist das ja oft so, jeder macht alles. Und wenn Du irgendwie so 30, 40 Mitarbeiter bist, dann musst Du das langsam mal definieren.\n\nWeil sonst fühlt sich auch keiner verantwortlich. Und das ist auch etwas, was ich halt mitmache. Wo ich dann auch sage, okay, es gibt ein Projekt und da ist jetzt nur diese Person verantwortlich oder das Team. Und die lösen das. Das funktioniert auch meistens.\n\nNatürlich gibt's immer unterschiedliche Meinungen. Aber so ist das halt, ne. Also.\n\nSpeaker 0: Mhm. Mhm. Gibt es so eine Art von Fehler oder eine eine Gruppe von Fehler, 'n Typ von Fehler, den Du sehr häufig siehst, wo Du sagst, okay, wenn der Jan mir jetzt mal 5 Minuten das Mikrofon gibt und dann erklär ich den Teamset ups aufgebaut sein müssen, damit nicht jeder da draußen in in dieselbe Falle rennt so. Gibt's so was oder sind das wirklich so ganz unterschiedliche Sachen?\n\nSpeaker 1: Nee, also die Größe des Teams ist schon wichtig. Also optimal find ich immer 5, 6 Mitarbeiter. Also man sagt, diese 8 Leute maximal. Das find ich schon viel. Ich würd's eher kleiner halten.\n\nIch würd's versuchen, so 5 bis 6 find ich eigentlich ganz gute Lösungen.\n\nSpeaker 2: Und die also unterschiedlicher Rollen.\n\nSpeaker 1: Genau. Mhm. Also cross funktional, das ist das ist schon wichtig. Ich hatte sogar ein-, zweimal mal Teams, wo wirklich auch Sales Leute in den Teams dabei waren. Das war das war, das fand ich schon sehr gut, weil die Leute sich dann angefangen haben, besser zu verstehen.\n\nAber selten. Aber da müssen die Leute auch Lust zu\n\nSpeaker 0: haben. Das wär ja jetzt meine Frage gewesen, von von welcher Seite das ausgegangen ist und wie freiwillig das war. Aber wenn's funktioniert, ist sehr cool.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja. Genau, das ist so, glaub ich, das Grundsätzlichste, was ich sagen würde. Mhm. Was eigentlich so was das ist, was was ich immer versuch, einzuführen, dass das halt nicht zu große Teams werden.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und was ist sone Art von Fehler, die oftmals vielleicht viel zu spät bemerkt wird, weil sie nicht so wirklich sichtbare Symptome haben? Weißt Du, was ich mein? Sone son Problem, was lange gerne untergerig irgendwie so vor sich hin stellt und dann\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja. Dann irgendwie hochnimmt. Testing ist ein Thema.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, okay. Das\n\nSpeaker 1: macht ja gefühlt irgendwie niemand. Aber man merkt dann irgendwann, okay, das ist 'n riesiger Monolith geworden. Und ich schraub hier an der Seite was und auf der anderen Seite explodiert's auf einmal und keiner weiß, warum. Das ist auch etwas, was ich halt irgendwie früh gelernt hab, als ich diese diese gebaut hab, diese AI damals. Recht kompliziert.\n\nUnd ich konnte nachts manchmal nicht mehr schlafen. Ich dachte, scheiße. Ich weiß nicht, ob das jetzt noch funktioniert. Ich hab jetzt die Änderung gemacht. Und ich hab dann irgendwann angefangen, die.\n\nAlso nur, gar nicht so Integrationstest und alles, was Du rum gewesen. Nur, Tests versuchen zu 80 80 Prozent Coverage zu haben. Und das hat schon viel geholfen, einfach zu sehen, okay, BASIC Vertrauen da da das kann nicht mehr komplett schiefgehen. Wenn da 'n Bug entsteht, dann ist das 'n kleiner Bug. Also das ist, glaub ich, 1.\n\nUnd ich hab noch irgendwas im Kopf, ist mir aber jetzt wieder abhandengekommen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Okay. Und vielleicht so die gegenteilige Frage. Gibt's auch Probleme, die für für die Beteiligten so enorm riesig wirken, die aber eigentlich so ganz kleine Lösungen, haben gesagt, okay, Leute, ihr müsst an dieser Stellschraube vielleicht nur 'n kleines bisschen drehen oder irgendwas 'n bisschen anders machen und schon wär euer Leben so viel einfacher.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja. Mir ist die Antwort von der letzten Frage noch mal eingefallen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, dann haut die erst raus. Alles gut.\n\nSpeaker 1: Also Technologieupdates.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, okay. Also Ja, das kommt auch direkt.\n\nSpeaker 1: Irgendwie, also letztes Mal gab's wieder irgendwie 'n, da wurd irgendwie eine uralte PHP PHP Lösung genutzt, wo's super viele Sicherheitslösungen Sicherheitslücken gibt. Wo man einfach, wenn man das, weiß nicht, einmal im Jahr machst 'n Update, das reicht schon, damit Du nicht ganz aufm aufm aufm Boden fällst damit. Also das ist etwas, was irgendwie oft vergessen wird, find ich. Und das ist kein großer Aufwand. Man muss das einfach nur schedulen.\n\nGenau. Und die, wiederhol noch mal die Frage, bitte.\n\nSpeaker 0: Die Frage war, gibt es irgend eine Art von Problem, die halt für die Beteiligten so so riesig und ungreifbar und nicht angebar wirkt, aber die vielleicht eigentlich ganz ganz kleine, simple Lösungen haben, die aber niemand sieht in dem Moment.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja. Also oft die Entwickler, die so im Seniorbereich sind und sich weiterentwickeln wollen in Richtung Managementlösung, also Richtung Management und dann Organisationsstrukturen verändern wollen, die denken immer, hab ich das Gefühl, ja, sie brauchen erst die Autorität, das machen zu können. Mhm. Damit einem keiner auf die Füße tritt. Mhm.\n\nUnd ich denk mir immer, mach doch einfach erst mal. Mhm. Mach doch das einfach in deinem Team, wenn das funktioniert, werden alle sagen, boah geil, ihr macht das irgendwie doppelt so schnell wie vorher. Also oft sind diese Gedanken so hierarchisch sehr angelegt. Und das ist, glaube ich, oft 'n Problem, dass man so oft denkt, okay, ich brauch erst mal den CTO Titel, bevor ich hier überhaupt was machen kann.\n\nDas ist\n\nSpeaker 0: auch son typisches Szene Ei Problem, ne. Also die Leute denken irgendwie immer, ich brauch hier ich brauch hier Autorität, damit ich was umsetzen kann und vergessen dabei, dass sie vielleicht erst mal anfangen Sachen anfangen sollten, Sachen umzusetzen, damit sie dann diesen CDO Titel bekommen und damit dann quasi aufsteigen so, ja.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja. Das ist halt auch auf irgendwie son bisschen Ego Thema. Und ich hab im Laufe der Zeit gemerkt, das das sollte man komplett wegschmeißen nach Möglichkeit. Also das hält einen meistens nur auf irgendwie. Und jeder hat das, ne.\n\nAlso jeder hat das irgendwie.\n\nSpeaker 0: Mhm. Cool. Cool. Was sind so deine Lieblingsarten von Kunden und was sind so Kunden oder, wo Du eher sagst, ah, die, also ich mach die jetzt halt mal, aber mein ist das nicht.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja. Meine Lieblingskunden sind Start ups, also wenn wir jetzt 'n Start-up erreicht bleiben. Start ups, die vor 1 Investment, Investmentrunde sind. Oh, richtig vor. Ja.\n\nNee, es kann schon irgendwie eine CSA Runde sein oder so was. Ach\n\nSpeaker 0: so, aber grade vor der nächsten Runde meinst Du?\n\nSpeaker 1: Genau, vor der nächsten Runde sind. Weil dann kann man sehr viel vorbereiten, diesen Wachstum zu managen. Ja. Oft ist das aber der umgekehrte Fall. Die haben irgendwie, keine Ahnung, 'n paar Millionen bekommen, haben dann irgendwie 10 Leute angestellt und merken, okay, das funktioniert gar nicht.\n\nDas ist ein bisschen schwieriger für mich einfach. Und wenn man vorher Zeit hat, dann kann man das gut strukturieren und aufbauen, sodass das alle verstehen und dann auch dediziert einzelne Leute schrittweise einzustellen und so und so weiter. Also das ist, das ist oft 1. Und aktuell mach ich sehr gerne einfach auch so Themen, die erst im Bereich Forschung eigentlich unterwegs sind. Was grade grade aktuell arbeite ich für das Projekt Mission KI.\n\nDas ist vom Bundesministerium für Digitales und Verkehr initiiert worden. Gibt's ja leider nicht mehr. Das wird jetzt übernommen von von dem Digitalministerium. Und die haben sich ausgesucht, also die haben gesagt, wir wir machen Fellowship, also 'n Stipendium für die 10 besten PhD Studenten im Bereich AI und helfen ihnen dabei, ihre Forschung in Business Modelle und Start-up auszulagern. Also dass sie ja selber halt gründen können.\n\nUnd das mach ich aktuell gerade und das macht viel Spaß. Das klingt auch gut. Das das funktioniert auch im Endeffekt aber auch nur, weil das unterstützt wird von vom vom Staat. Oder manchmal auch vom oder im Inkubator oder so was. Genau.\n\nDas ist, das find ich sehr spannend, weil es wirklich diese Brücke steckt zwischen Research und Business. Und 'n bisschen Erfahrung hab ich ja damals 2015 schon gehabt mit dem AAAAAAA. Cool.\n\nSpeaker 0: Eine eine Standardfrage, die wir, glaub ich, auch allen immer stellen, ist so, was was rätst Du Leuten, die gerne CTO werden wollen würden?\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja. Also ich glaub, wenn man CTO werden will, dann sollte man darauf vorbereitet sein, dass die Arbeit sich sehr stark verändert von dem, was man bislang gemacht hat, vor allem, wenn man Softwareentwickler ist. Und dass man sich wirklich überlegen sollte, ob das wirklich die richtige Fahrt für einen ist. Aber also man, ich ich sag auch für, man soll das auf jeden Fall ausprobieren und dann halt entscheiden, ob das die richtige Fahrt ist. Weil ich merk oft, dass Softwareentwickler in die Rolle kommen und dann merken, okay, das gar nicht, was ich machen will.\n\nIch hab gar keine Lust irgendwie, mich mit Leuten, Menschen irgendwie die Probleme auseinanderzusetzen, sondern ich will einfach 8 Stunden vorm Rechner sitzen, geil geil geilen Code schreiben. Weil das ist schon eine sehr andere Aufgabe. Und man muss aus meiner Sicht auch nicht nur technisches zu wissen haben, son bisschen mehr über den Tellerrand schauen und verstehen, was die anderen, was alle anderen Abteilungen machen. Also man muss 'n CEO und 'n CEO und alles, was so auf Ziel Level existiert, einfach grundsätzlich verstehen, wie die arbeiten, was die machen. Und auf Ziel Level bist Du ja auch irgendwann für Budgets verantwortlich.\n\nDas heißt, dieses Finanzthema muss halt auch irgendwie abdecken können. Ja. Vielleicht noch vielleicht noch ein ein kleiner Rat. Ich würd's versuchen, immer schrittweise zu machen. Also vielleicht ist im ersten Schritt eher eine Head off Rolle oder eine direkte Rolle, als jetzt direkt Institut zu werden.\n\nJa. Weil das auch schon 'n bisschen hilft, sich darauf vorzubereiten.\n\nSpeaker 0: Aber also geht es denn anders?\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja. Also 'n Start ups hast Du dann auf einmal eine Situor Rolle.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, also okay, dann hast Du die aufm Papier, aber das ist ja ehrlicherweise meilenweit weg von dem, was Ja. Die meisten anderen CTOs da draußen machen. Dann hast Du Lust zwar, aber Du wächst, also Du gehst ja trotzdem diese Teamlead, Head of Engineering, VP CTO Reise durch. Du heißt halt nur von Anfang an so, aber Ja. Ne.\n\nJa. Ja. Die Firma wächst ja unter dir mit.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ich hab ich hab's auch noch nie gesehen, aber die Ambitionen gibt's. Ja. Da sagt jetzt, okay, ich war jetzt ich hab jetzt 5 bis 7 Jahre irgendwie Software entwickelt.\n\nSpeaker 0: Reicht jetzt. Ja.\n\nSpeaker 1: Hier gibt's also, viele Ambitionen haben die Leute manchmal.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ah, okay. Ja. Okay, dann haben wir noch was vorbereitet.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, ohne Absprache würde ich das gerne ersetzen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ohne, ja, Dennis hat irgendwas anderes vorbereitet. Das ist, okay.\n\nSpeaker 1: Okay, ich bin gespannt.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ich auch. Also sonst haben\n\nSpeaker 2: wir ja immer einen eine Frau\n\nSpeaker 0: Musik im Hintergrund, erfüllen, was Du wollen\n\nSpeaker 2: wir nicht. Kannst Du gerne machen. Einen Fragenkatalog, wo wir so entweder oder Fragen stellen. Aber bei dir würde mich jetzt und in der heutigen Zeit, wo wir jetzt Mitte 2025 sind, noch mehr interessieren, wie denn dein persönlicher Take zu AI ist und vor allen Dingen eben auch auf das, was Du tust, nämlich irgendwie, ne, überlegen, wie Tech Organisationen strukturiert sind. Wie sehr Also was denkst Du aktuell, wie sehr wird sich das verändern?\n\nUnd in welcher Geschwindigkeit, aber vielleicht also vorneweg noch so, wird sich das verändern? Kann ja auch sein, dass Du da konträrerer Meinung bist und wenn ja, wie schnell und wie schnell wird das auf das, was Du machst im Sinne von, es braucht andere Strukturen, es braucht, ne, andere andere Ideen, eine Auswirkung haben.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja. Also ich glaub auf jeden Fall, dass sich das verändert. Und ich glaub, man man sieht das auch schon teilweise. Was was halt noch, also alle nutzen ChatGPT und solche solche Lösungen. Und was ich halt oft seh, ist, das sind halt immer noch Language Models.\n\nDas sind keine Knowledge Models oder so was, ne. Also das wird immer mehr in die Richtung, dass auch irgendwie logische Zusammenhänge und so was verbessert werden. Aber das ist noch nicht auf dem Level, was ich gleichzeitig seh, dass es schon einzelne technische Lösungen gibt, die sehr viel, also ist 'n höherer Grad an Automatisierung für mich. So seh ich das eigentlich. Und das wird schon viel verändern.\n\nUnd es gibt ja, also ich beschäftige mich ja viel mit Start ups grade aktuell. Und ich seh auch zum Beispiel, dass in bei Y Kombinator in den USA dafür aufgerufen wird, Native AI Unternehmen zu gründen, ja. Also dass man sagt, okay, das muss von Grund auf alles AI basiert sein. Und zu überlegen, okay, wie bau ich jetzt, ich glaub, das Beispiel, das Sie genannt haben, war, wie bau ich jetzt eine Anwaltskanzlei auf, die mit AR Unterstützung super arbeiten kann? Und da sagen die, okay, das will, den wollen wir gar nicht.\n\nWir wollen, dass die Mitarbeiter, die die Anwaltstätigkeiten machen, dass das AI Systeme sind. Und gar nicht mehr, dass das nur unterstützend ist, weil Und ich glaube, das geht mehr und mehr in die Richtung. Also ich hab schon ein, 2 Tendenzen gesehen, wo es auch mehr in die Richtung geht, dass es einzelne Personen teilweise gibt, die Millionen von Umsätzen machen, dadurch, dass sie halt sehr viel automatisieren können und AI dazu auch nutzen. Genau, das dauert eine gewisse Zeit, glaub ich, noch, bis es da wirklich so weiter etabliert ist. Aber so, das ist der Trend und die Tendenz, die ich zumindest sehe.\n\nAlso Teams werden kleiner, viele Sachen werden mehr automatisiert. Die Aufgaben, die wir teilweise haben, auch teilweise in der Softwareentwicklung selber, dass Tools verwendet werden, wo man teilweise schon sagen kann, okay, das könnte auch 'n Juniorentwickler irgendwie ersetzen, dass das immer mehr und mehr kommt.\n\nSpeaker 2: Freust Du dich auf die Zukunft?\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, generell eigentlich schon, aber ich Es klingt so, ich\n\nSpeaker 0: bin gespannt.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ich bin gespannt, sagen wir mal so. Also ich bin ich bin neugieriger Typ, aber ich ich ich hab noch 'n, ich hab jetzt, wenn ich so in die Glaskugel gucke, ist es noch schwammig für mich. Also ist neblig. Ich weiß, ich kann noch nicht so klar sagen, okay, das, ich würde schätzen, das wird in die Richtung gehen. Genau.\n\nAber ich träume mich generell schon darauf, würde ich sagen. Ja. Also ich hab bin jetzt nicht 1 von denen, die sagen würde, okay, dass ich hab jetzt Angst davor oder so was. Ich glaub schon, dass das sehr viel Fortschritt oft bedeuten wird.\n\nSpeaker 0: Wo siehst Du denn da die die Grenzen aktuell oder perspektivisch? Grade wenn Du schon von so früh mit dabei warst und ja wahrscheinlich doch eher bei denen mit dabei bist, die ja auch sehen, dass da am Ende viel Stochastik einfach nur hinten dran ist, ja.\n\nSpeaker 1: Mhm. Und\n\nSpeaker 0: und und kein Wissen und logisches Denken, zumindest so, wie's aktuell funktioniert. Gibt es da für dich sone sone natürlich sone Glasgrenze, die wir irgendwann erreichen? Oder oder wie siehst Du das?\n\nSpeaker 1: Also es gibt ja viele Tools, die so im kreativen Bereich eingesetzt werden, ne, Bilder zu generieren und all so. Und alle haben gedacht, okay, der kreative Bereich, der wird eigentlich krass dadurch beeinflusst und attackiert. Und einerseits stimmt das, aber echte Kreativität ist dann noch mal irgendwie was anderes. Echte echte Ideen und Innovationskraft irgendwie zu haben, da das seh ich noch nicht so richtig bei den AI Systemen. Da weiß ich auch nicht, ob die das erreichen können.\n\nDas sucht mein Gedanke dazu. Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja. Inwiefern. Hast Du noch mehr Fragen denn? Es ist klein so, als hättest Du sonen Fragenkatalog dabei.\n\nSpeaker 1: Nee.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ach so. Ich hab einfach nur den den anderen ersetzt durch diese eine Frage.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ah, eisi.\n\nSpeaker 1: Sie. Okay.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja. Cool.\n\nSpeaker 0: Dann sind wir, glaub ich, durch für heute schon.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, außer Du willst die anderen 2 klassischen Fragen, die hab ich natürlich noch.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, die kannst Du auch raushauen.\n\nSpeaker 2: Die kann ich auch rauchen. Okay, die erste ist, wenn Du jetzt zurückreihst, ich mein, Du hast ja 'n durchaus spannenden Lebenslauf und hier die ein oder anderen Pivot son bisschen gemacht mit Ausbildung und Studium und jetzt dem dem Coaching und dem Weiterbringen von anderen. Wenn Du zurückreisen könntest, vielleicht nicht ganz in die Kommodore Zeit, aber doch irgendwie an an am Anfang. Gibt's da was, was Du dir ins Ohr flüstern würdest und wo Du so mit der Erfahrung, die Du heute hast, irgendwie was auf jeden Fall anders machen würdest?\n\nSpeaker 1: Also ich hätte wahrscheinlich früher angefangen, in die Selbstständigkeit, also das würd ich mir sagen, fang früher an, in die Selbstständigkeit zu gehen. Mhm. Also bei mir war das so, ich hatte schon eigentlich immer so den Wunsch irgendwie, selbstständig zu arbeiten. Ich glaube, das hätt ich früher locker auch stemmen können. So 5 Jahre früher beispielsweise.\n\nDas das hätte, glaub ich, mehr Sinn gemacht.\n\nSpeaker 0: Was waren damals so die Bedenken, die dich davon abgehalten haben? Oder war's einfach nicht auf deinem Schirm, dass das eine Option ist?\n\nSpeaker 1: Das war's schon auf meinem Schirm, aber ich weiß nicht, es gibt halt so gewisse Ängste und Sicherheitsgefühle, wo man sagt, okay. Und außerdem hat man hat hatt ich auch immer einigermaßen gute Jobs, wo ich dann gedacht hab, ich komm dann auch immer weiter. Aber ist es noch mal was anderes, wenn man selber wirklich frei entscheiden kann, Sachen so zu gestalten, wie man möchte? Das ist noch mal was ganz anderes. Sogar wenn Du wenn Du irgendwie im Ziellevel aufm, in 'nem Unternehmen, 'n Start-up bist und von mir aus bist Du auch Gesellschafter, hast Du trotzdem immer 'n Rahmen, wo Du dich mit anderen Leuten absprechen musst?\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, meistens heißt der Gesellschafterbetrag.\n\nSpeaker 1: Genau. Und das ist halt das ist halt, in gewissen Situationen hab ich mich da immer limitiert gefühlt. Mhm. Genau. Deswegen war, ist mein mein, würde ich meinem jüngeren Ich sagen, mach das ruhig früher, trau dich ruhig.\n\nIst ja okay, wenn Du auf die auf die Schnauze fällst damit, dann steht immer wieder auf und macht's halt noch mal besser.\n\nSpeaker 0: Das, glaub ich, eine gute Einstellung.\n\nSpeaker 2: Und die andere Frage, die wir gerne stellen, welche Frage wärst Du, hätten wir dir noch stellen sollen? Also was was bist Du nicht gefragt worden und hättest Du trotzdem gerne geteilt in dem Podcast?\n\nSpeaker 1: Also ich glaub, die Frage hättet ihr nicht stellen können, aber das hatt ich im Kopf, aber ich hab's nicht erzählt. Und zwar, was mich damals so gefreckt hat und auch beeinflusst hat, war, dass ich wirklich diese ersten 3 Geschäftsführer, die ich hatte, dass sie nicht nur irgendwie mir technisch und thematisch Sachen gut beigebracht haben, sondern auch das Zwischenmenschliche. Also wie wir zusammengearbeitet haben. Wir haben zum Beispiel, also 2005 hab ich angefangen, mit denen zu arbeiten. Und wir waren damals schon irgendwann im Remote Setup.\n\nDas heißt, die haben mir voll vertraut. Die haben gesagt, mach, was Du willst. Hier ist das Projekt. Bau das, wie Du möchtest. Montags haben wir uns zum Frühstück getroffen.\n\nIch hab die Brüche mitgebracht. Wir haben's dann gefrühstückt. Und dann war das, das war sehr familiär. Und das ist, glaub ich, so etwas, was großen Einfluss darauf hat, wie man sich entwickelt, wie man lernt. Und was noch zusätzlich hinzukommt, die waren halt, ich hab die halt irgendwann dabei erwischt, dass sie in der Pause 3 live gespielt haben.\n\nUnd ich wusste das nicht, dass sie auch spielen. Und da dacht ich mir, okay, cool.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, ja, ist cool.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, das glaub ich, glaub ich, bei so jedem Lebensabschnitt ist irgendwie entscheidend mehr da mitmachen, ne. Ich glaub, bei bei Kindern so, dein dein erster Lehrer, Lehrerin, was auch immer, ist irgendwie super ausschlaggebend, wenn Du jemanden hast, der dich fördert und aufbaut oder so, ja, an der an der Schule, wenn Du irgendwie 'n coolen Dozent oder 'n coolen Tutor hast oder an der Uni dann später und halt grade dann auch irgendwie im ersten Job da steht und fällt irgendwie so viel damit.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, man unterschätzt das oft und man sieht das erst im Nachhinein dann auch erst.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja. Das ist richtig. Schön,\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja. Dann 1000 Dank, Perman, dass Du dir die Zeit genommen hast für uns heute.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ich hab's dann.\n\nSpeaker 0: Sehr interessantes Gespräch. 1000 Dank Dennis, dass Du mit dabei warst. Danke. 1000 Dank an alle, die da draußen zugehört haben. Wenn ihr Fragen, Anregungen, Kritik, was auch immer habt, dann immer gerne an Podcast at Programmier Punkt bar oder gerne auf LinkedIn, Mastodon, Blues Guy, Instagram, wo auch immer ihr uns findet, Youtube.\n\nWir sind überall, lesen alles mit und freuen uns auf eure Kommentare und freuen uns auf die nächste Folge.\n\nSpeaker 2: Bis schön.\n\nSpeaker 0: Bis dahin. Tschau, tschau. Bis. Und bis bald. Macht's gut.\n\nDanke, Peymane.\n\nSpeaker 1: Tschau, tschau.",[49817,49830,49842,49849,49854,49859,49865,49870,49875,49879,49886,49890,49894,49907,49912,49922,49935,49945,49958,49964,49976,49988,49997,50002,50009,50013,50017,50022,50034,50039,50051,50056,50061,50067,50071,50079,50086,50090,50094,50100,50106,50115,50123,50136,50140,50153,50161,50171,50181,50193,50197,50201,50214,50227,50237,50242,50253,50263,50275,50279,50290,50302,50315,50324,50330,50341,50353,50366,50379,50392,50405,50418,50431,50443,50456,50469,50481,50486,50499,50511,50515,50519,50523,50535,50539,50551,50564,50571,50575,50579,50583,50594,50606,50618,50630,50633,50639,50652,50664,50675,50679,50684,50691,50697,50708,50720,50730,50738,50746,50758,50771,50775,50781,50794,50802,50808,50819,50822,50826,50830,50839,50843,50853,50861,50864,50877,50885,50891,50904,50913,50917,50921,50933,50939,50943,50948,50954,50959,50963,50974,50987,50999,51007,51017,51029,51040,51050,51059,51062,51068,51080,51085,51089,51097,51103,51115,51127,51139,51143,51150,51161,51174,51178,51182,51195,51207,51220,51231,51244,51255,51259,51263,51267,51271,51279,51285,51295,51298,51306,51318,51323,51329,51334,51342,51355,51359,51372,51383,51394,51406,51414,51426,51436,51440,51446,51450,51454,51461,51465,51468,51480,51492,51496,51509,51520,51533,51539,51552,51560,51570,51583,51589,51597,51609,51617,51629,51640,51644,51655,51666,51678,51691,51701,51706,51718,51729,51733,51746,51749,51759,51771,51781,51793,51802,51810,51813,51819,51830,51836,51849,51860,51872,51876,51881,51888,51892,51903,51915,51927,51931,51939,51950,51962,51969,51977,51990,51994,51998,52008,52014,52021,52029,52037,52044,52049,52061,52073,52085,52089,52096,52101,52107,52111,52116,52128,52133,52137,52147,52158,52162,52168,52179,52183,52190,52200,52205,52209,52220,52232,52244,52255,52262,52266,52278,52290,52301,52306,52310,52315,52326,52332,52339,52344,52348,52355,52359,52365,52369,52375,52379,52383,52395,52401,52412,52424,52436,52449,52455,52459,52463,52467,52478,52487,52493,52497,52505,52517,52522,52530,52533,52539,52543,52547,52551,52555,52559,52563,52574,52585,52589,52595,52607,52611,52621,52625,52629,52636,52649,52661,52673,52679,52683,52689,52693,52699,52704,52708,52719,52723,52727,52738,52742],{"sentences":49818,"speaker":405,"num_words":49829,"start":403,"end":722},[49819,49821,49823,49825,49827],{"text":49820,"start":403,"end":482},"Hallo und herzlich willkommen zu einem neuen CTO Special, das wir auch lange nicht mehr hatten in der Programmier.",{"text":49822,"start":482,"end":600},"Ich bin grade auf dem ganz falschen Fuß aufgestanden und weiß gar nicht mehr, wann das Letzte war, aber es ist auf alle Fälle schon 'n bisschen her.",{"text":49824,"start":600,"end":660},"Das war mit Katrin, das war, glaub ich, die Nummer 30 oder 31 oder so.",{"text":49826,"start":664,"end":705},"Und ich laber einfach so lange weiter, bis ich's wieder find.",{"text":49828,"start":705,"end":722},"Das war nämlich die 31.",78,{"sentences":49831,"speaker":405,"num_words":49841,"start":726,"end":816},[49832,49833,49835,49837,49839],{"text":730,"start":726,"end":727},{"text":49834,"start":732,"end":751},"Aber heute sind wir 1 weiter.",{"text":49836,"start":756,"end":765},"Monate sind vergangen.",{"text":49838,"start":765,"end":809},"Wir nehmen ein neues CTO Special auf, heute mit Paymann Projekte.",{"text":49840,"start":809,"end":816},"Hallo Paymann.",23,{"sentences":49843,"speaker":282,"num_words":49848,"start":821,"end":846},[49844,49846],{"text":49845,"start":821,"end":836},"Hi Jan, hi Dennis.",{"text":49847,"start":836,"end":846},"Freut mich.",6,{"sentences":49850,"speaker":854,"num_words":49853,"start":851,"end":872},[49851],{"text":49852,"start":851,"end":872},"Schön, dass Du da bist.",5,{"sentences":49855,"speaker":405,"num_words":49858,"start":876,"end":934},[49856],{"text":49857,"start":876,"end":934},"Und außerdem natürlich wieder dabei, der Dennis hier in meinem linken Studiosessel mit am Start.",15,{"sentences":49860,"speaker":854,"num_words":49864,"start":934,"end":952},[49861,49863],{"text":49862,"start":934,"end":947},"In meinem Lieblingsformat.",{"text":489,"start":951,"end":952},4,{"sentences":49866,"speaker":282,"num_words":49869,"start":952,"end":962},[49867],{"text":49868,"start":952,"end":962},"weiß gar nicht,",3,{"sentences":49871,"speaker":854,"num_words":49874,"start":962,"end":1041},[49872],{"text":49873,"start":962,"end":1041},"ob ich damit das andere son bisschen degradiere, aber am liebsten hab ich doch das CTO Special immer noch am spannendsten.",21,{"sentences":49876,"speaker":282,"num_words":49864,"start":1041,"end":1057},[49877],{"text":49878,"start":1041,"end":1057},"Was noch nicht ist.",{"sentences":49880,"speaker":405,"num_words":49885,"start":1057,"end":1111},[49881,49883,49884],{"text":49882,"start":1057,"end":1098},"Immer das Format am liebsten, in dem Du grade sitzt, oder?",{"text":1107,"start":1103,"end":1104},{"text":1113,"start":1110,"end":1111},13,{"sentences":49887,"speaker":854,"num_words":49864,"start":1116,"end":1128},[49888],{"text":49889,"start":1116,"end":1128},"Außer das CTO Special.",{"sentences":49891,"speaker":405,"num_words":258,"start":1133,"end":1161},[49892],{"text":49893,"start":1133,"end":1161},"Warum ist das CDO Special ein Lieblingsformat, Dennis?",{"sentences":49895,"speaker":854,"num_words":49906,"start":1166,"end":1430},[49896,49898,49900,49902,49904],{"text":49897,"start":1166,"end":1277},"Na, für mich ist es einfach eine superspannende Perspektive, so einzelne Persönlichkeiten 'n bisschen kennenzulernen, wie die verschiedenen Lebensläufe aussehen, wie man da hingekommen ist, was man macht.",{"text":49899,"start":1281,"end":1318},"Das ist irgendwie was, was man nicht so täglich irgendwo liest.",{"text":49901,"start":1318,"end":1381},"Also Du kannst das zwar irgendwie abstrakt auf 'nem LinkedIn Profil irgendwie noch vielleicht mal sehen.",{"text":49903,"start":1385,"end":1408},"Aber ja, was waren so die Entscheidungsschritte?",{"text":49905,"start":1412,"end":1430},"Was hat man Spannendes erlebt?",67,{"sentences":49908,"speaker":854,"num_words":49911,"start":1430,"end":1503},[49909],{"text":49910,"start":1430,"end":1503},"Und da gibt es einfach Persönlichkeiten, die einiges zu erzählen haben und ich bin mir sicher, dass Peymann dazugehört.",19,{"sentences":49913,"speaker":405,"num_words":863,"start":1507,"end":1648},[49914,49916,49918,49920],{"text":49915,"start":1507,"end":1526},"Da bin ich auch ziemlich sicher.",{"text":49917,"start":1526,"end":1596},"Aber vielleicht bevor wir zu den ganz spannenden kritischen Stationen kommen, fangen wir vielleicht mal ganz vorne an.",{"text":49919,"start":1600,"end":1629},"Peymann, wie bist Du in den Computerzaubertrank gefallen?",{"text":49921,"start":1629,"end":1648},"Was war dein erster Einstieg?",{"sentences":49923,"speaker":282,"num_words":49934,"start":1652,"end":1880},[49924,49926,49928,49930,49932],{"text":49925,"start":1652,"end":1734},"Also ich hatte ganz früh im, ich glaub, Grundschulalter war das so ungefähr, hab ich irgendwann mich mehr mit Technik beschäftigt.",{"text":49927,"start":1738,"end":1795},"Und ich glaub, ich hab zu Geburtstag oder Weihnachten hab ich mal sonen Elektrobaukasten geschenkt gekriegt.",{"text":49929,"start":1795,"end":1830},"Kennst Du, Kosmos, glaub ich, Elektrobaukasten oder so was?",{"text":49931,"start":1830,"end":1846},"Oh ja, oh ja.",{"text":49933,"start":1846,"end":1880},"Wo man so Schaltung sammeln Gibt's auch heute.",58,{"sentences":49936,"speaker":282,"num_words":49944,"start":1885,"end":1919},[49937,49939,49941,49942,49943],{"text":49938,"start":1885,"end":1892},"Schalten kann.",{"text":49940,"start":1892,"end":1906},"Gibt's immer noch, ja.",{"text":1912,"start":1906,"end":1909},{"text":1917,"start":1909,"end":1915},{"text":1912,"start":1915,"end":1919},9,{"sentences":49946,"speaker":282,"num_words":49957,"start":1919,"end":2224},[49947,49949,49951,49953,49955],{"text":49948,"start":1919,"end":1987},"Genau, so was hab ich geschenkt bekommen und dann ich mir Radio zusammenbauen und ich war son bisschen technikaffin.",{"text":49950,"start":1987,"end":2045},"Ich glaub, meine Eltern haben das auch so gemerkt und 'n bisschen in die Richtung dann gepusht.",{"text":49952,"start":2045,"end":2099},"Und irgendwann hab ich dann ganz klassisch, wie glaub ich, viele andere irgendwann Commodore 64 bekommen.",{"text":49954,"start":2099,"end":2148},"Ich hab das beim Nachbarsfreund gesehen und da haben wir Spiele drauf gezockt.",{"text":49956,"start":2148,"end":2224},"Und dann war's nicht mehr allzu weit davon, bis ich meine Eltern davon überzeugt hab, okay, ich brauch auch so was.",86,{"sentences":49959,"speaker":282,"num_words":49841,"start":2228,"end":2312},[49960,49962],{"text":49961,"start":2228,"end":2303},"Die dachten natürlich, ich fang da damit an, großartig irgendwie was zu lernen, aber ich hab natürlich am Anfang nur gespielt.",{"text":49963,"start":2307,"end":2312},"Da hab",{"sentences":49965,"speaker":405,"num_words":49975,"start":2312,"end":2663},[49966,49968,49970,49971,49973],{"text":49967,"start":2312,"end":2375},"ich mal eine Frage, weil das ist ja sone Einschießgeschichte, die mir relativ häufig fallen, ne.",{"text":49969,"start":2375,"end":2437},"Das war son Commodore oder bei meinen Eltern, dann war's irgendwie sone sone erste Doss Kiste irgendwie.",{"text":1912,"start":2441,"end":2442},{"text":49972,"start":2442,"end":2511},"Habt ihr, also ihr beide noch son Gefühl dafür, was das damals für Eltern für son Kostenaufwand war?",{"text":49974,"start":2514,"end":2663},"Weil weißt Du, heute so, ja, ich stell meinem Kind mal irgendwie sonen Rechner, da gibt's ja, ja, in jeder Price range irgendwie was, aber das war ja, als wir son bisschen jünger waren, noch sah das ja noch ganz anders aus, ne?",95,{"sentences":49977,"speaker":282,"num_words":49987,"start":2667,"end":2886},[49978,49979,49981,49983,49985],{"text":1912,"start":2667,"end":2668},{"text":49980,"start":2672,"end":2713},"Also ich erinner mich, das war für meine Eltern schon 'n größerer Schritt.",{"text":49982,"start":2717,"end":2750},"Also es war viel Geld für die, das zu investieren.",{"text":49984,"start":2754,"end":2828},"Ich, wenn ich mich richtig erinnere, war das ja auch nicht nur, dass Du, also war's, glaub ich, erst mal Secondhand.",{"text":49986,"start":2828,"end":2886},"Das heißt, irgendeiner hatte das vorher gekauft und ich hab dann die zweite Version davon gekriegt.",61,{"sentences":49989,"speaker":282,"num_words":49996,"start":2889,"end":3065},[49990,49992,49994],{"text":49991,"start":2889,"end":2995},"Und das war ja auch nicht nur, dass Du irgendwie nur ein fertiges Gerät, so laptopmäßig Monitor alles dran gekauft hast, sondern Du hast ja einzelne Geräte gehabt im Endeffekt.",{"text":49993,"start":2999,"end":3038},"Und dann braucht's dann noch 'n Fernseher oder 'n Monitor irgendwie dazu.",{"text":49995,"start":3042,"end":3065},"Das heißt, das war schon 'n bisschen aufwendiger.",50,{"sentences":49998,"speaker":405,"num_words":49885,"start":3069,"end":3112},[49999,50000],{"text":1912,"start":3069,"end":3070},{"text":50001,"start":3070,"end":3112},"Überlegt hat so, was das Äquivalent zu heute ist, so was, was",{"sentences":50003,"speaker":854,"num_words":50008,"start":3115,"end":3183},[50004,50006],{"text":50005,"start":3115,"end":3125},"Ja, ist schwierig.",{"text":50007,"start":3129,"end":3183},"Ob, wahrscheinlich ist es mehr als irgendwie eine Nintendo Switch oder so, würd ich vermuten.",18,{"sentences":50010,"speaker":282,"num_words":49869,"start":3187,"end":3196},[50011],{"text":50012,"start":3187,"end":3196},"Oh ja, bestimmt.",{"sentences":50014,"speaker":405,"num_words":854,"start":3200,"end":3206},[50015,50016],{"text":1912,"start":3200,"end":3201},{"text":3208,"start":3205,"end":3206},{"sentences":50018,"speaker":282,"num_words":50021,"start":3206,"end":3243},[50019],{"text":50020,"start":3206,"end":3243},"Ich weiß noch nicht, ob wie teuer es leider war.",10,{"sentences":50023,"speaker":854,"num_words":49829,"start":3243,"end":3523},[50024,50026,50028,50030,50032],{"text":50025,"start":3243,"end":3263},"Na, ich weiß auch noch nicht.",{"text":50027,"start":3263,"end":3288},"Also bei mir war's tatsächlich auch vererbt.",{"text":50029,"start":3288,"end":3392},"Also mein mein Opa war derjenige in der Familie, der da immer sehr nah dran war und den Commodore 64 dann an an meinen Bruder und mich gegeben hat.",{"text":50031,"start":3396,"end":3425},"Ja, könnte ich dir aber gar nicht so sagen.",{"text":50033,"start":3429,"end":3523},"Ich mein, danach gab's ja, also es gab ja diese, das hat man ja auch schon mal manchmal in 'nem Lebenslauf, es gab ja diese ALDI Computerphase.",{"sentences":50035,"speaker":282,"num_words":49864,"start":3527,"end":3539},[50036,50037],{"text":1912,"start":3527,"end":3528},{"text":50038,"start":3528,"end":3539},"Also da muss",{"sentences":50040,"speaker":405,"num_words":50050,"start":3543,"end":3663},[50041,50043,50045,50046,50048],{"text":50042,"start":3543,"end":3567},"jetzt leider die Hörerinnen da draußen enttäuschen.",{"text":50044,"start":3567,"end":3604},"Das hat uns halt alle nicht so betroffen eigentlich, ne.",{"text":3612,"start":3608,"end":3609},{"text":50047,"start":3614,"end":3655},"Ja, also ALDI Computer, das war doch so hier Zweitausender dann, ne.",{"text":50049,"start":3655,"end":3663},"Früher Zweitausender.",32,{"sentences":50052,"speaker":854,"num_words":50055,"start":3667,"end":3722},[50053],{"text":50054,"start":3667,"end":3722},"Na ja, also ich weiß, dass ich mal vom ALDI stand und son da drauf gewartet hab.",17,{"sentences":50057,"speaker":282,"num_words":49864,"start":3722,"end":3737},[50058,50059],{"text":3729,"start":3722,"end":3726},{"text":50060,"start":3726,"end":3737},"Ja, ja, ja.",{"sentences":50062,"speaker":854,"num_words":50066,"start":3740,"end":3957},[50063,50065],{"text":50064,"start":3740,"end":3954},"Also das ist schon, vielleicht warst Du schon advanced und hast irgendwie deine eigenen Grafikkarten reingeschraubt, aber das war so vom Gesamtpaket und die waren jetzt, boah, also ich könnte jetzt auch keinen keinen Preis mehr sagen, aber die waren weit weg von irgendwie heutigen MacBooks oder anderen Sachen oder was auch immer sie, die gingen irgendwie so, ne.",{"text":1325,"start":3954,"end":3957},60,{"sentences":50068,"speaker":282,"num_words":49848,"start":3960,"end":3980},[50069],{"text":50070,"start":3960,"end":3980},"Du fühlst fast dreistellig noch, oder?",{"sentences":50072,"speaker":854,"num_words":50078,"start":3980,"end":4066},[50073,50075,50076],{"text":50074,"start":3980,"end":3987},"Ja, genau.",{"text":1912,"start":3987,"end":3991},{"text":50077,"start":3991,"end":4066},"Das war dreistellig, da bin ich ziemlich sicher, ich hätt jetzt auch so was wie 400, 500 Euro, die Range gesagt.",24,{"sentences":50080,"speaker":405,"num_words":50085,"start":4066,"end":4134},[50081,50083],{"text":50082,"start":4066,"end":4086},"Also 'n c 64, Ja.",{"text":50084,"start":4090,"end":4134},"83 erschienen, Damals fünfzehnhundert Mark, inflationsbereinigter Preis heute ungefähr achtzehnhundert Euro.",16,{"sentences":50087,"speaker":282,"num_words":854,"start":4138,"end":4144},[50088,50089],{"text":1113,"start":4138,"end":4139},{"text":1325,"start":4143,"end":4144},{"sentences":50091,"speaker":405,"num_words":49864,"start":4144,"end":4158},[50092],{"text":50093,"start":4144,"end":4158},"das ist schon Ja,",{"sentences":50095,"speaker":854,"num_words":49858,"start":4158,"end":4215},[50096,50098],{"text":50097,"start":4158,"end":4193},"aber Du hast auch gesagt, also, ne, ne Eröffnungspreis.",{"text":50099,"start":4197,"end":4215},"Also nicht Eröffnungspreis, aber am Anfang.",{"sentences":50101,"speaker":405,"num_words":258,"start":4215,"end":4249},[50102,50103,50104],{"text":4223,"start":4215,"end":4220},{"text":4223,"start":4225,"end":4226},{"text":50105,"start":4229,"end":4249},"Ja, kann sein, dass es Und",{"sentences":50107,"speaker":854,"num_words":50114,"start":4249,"end":4359},[50108,50110,50112],{"text":50109,"start":4249,"end":4280},"wenn Du's dann irgendwie Secondhand hast und so, ne.",{"text":50111,"start":4280,"end":4291},"Aber ja klar.",{"text":50113,"start":4291,"end":4359},"Trotzdem auf jeden Fall jetzt nicht, lagen nicht kostenlos rum auf der Straße und man konnt sie einsammeln.",30,{"sentences":50116,"speaker":405,"num_words":50122,"start":4363,"end":4446},[50117,50118,50120],{"text":1917,"start":4363,"end":4364},{"text":50119,"start":4368,"end":4392},"Du Du hast nur gespielt, hast Du gesagt.",{"text":50121,"start":4392,"end":4446},"Was war so das Erste an, was Du dich erinnern kannst, was mehr war als spielen?",25,{"sentences":50124,"speaker":282,"num_words":50135,"start":4450,"end":4610},[50125,50127,50129,50131,50133],{"text":50126,"start":4450,"end":4495},"Das war, also es war schon immer in der Anfangszeit sehr stark Spiele.",{"text":50128,"start":4495,"end":4534},"Also wir haben so Quake und so was, also so was gespielt.",{"text":50130,"start":4534,"end":4543},"Ah ja.",{"text":50132,"start":4543,"end":4592},"Und dann ging's eher in die Richtung RC Channels, weil, also Ah.",{"text":50134,"start":4596,"end":4610},"Wir waren halt in so",44,{"sentences":50137,"speaker":405,"num_words":49848,"start":4613,"end":4634},[50138],{"text":50139,"start":4613,"end":4634},"Ihr hattet schon Internet so früh?",{"sentences":50141,"speaker":282,"num_words":50152,"start":4638,"end":4899},[50142,50144,50146,50148,50150],{"text":50143,"start":4638,"end":4659},"Ja, das war 'n bisschen später dann.",{"text":50145,"start":4659,"end":4683},"Das war 'n bisschen später natürlich dann.",{"text":50147,"start":4683,"end":4795},"Aber so richtig, wo ich dann wirklich was mit Computer gemacht hab, also ganz am Anfang, wenn wenn jetzt über Commodoreo und vielleicht den ersten 3 Sechsundachtziger, wenn man darüber nachdenkt.",{"text":50149,"start":4795,"end":4879},"Da ging's dann eher darum, Dateien zu kopieren, Spiele zu kopieren oder so was oder also oder vielleicht mal zu formatieren oder so was.",{"text":50151,"start":4882,"end":4899},"Viel gemacht haben wir damit nicht.",75,{"sentences":50154,"speaker":282,"num_words":50114,"start":4899,"end":5005},[50155,50157,50159],{"text":50156,"start":4899,"end":4955},"Vielleicht 'n bisschen mal 'n Brief geschrieben oder so was für für die Eltern oder so was.",{"text":50158,"start":4955,"end":4996},"Aber sonst, Programmieren hab ich eigentlich erst später, viel später angefangen.",{"text":50160,"start":5000,"end":5005},"Und Ja.",{"sentences":50162,"speaker":854,"num_words":49829,"start":5008,"end":5289},[50163,50164,50166,50168,50169],{"text":1912,"start":5008,"end":5009},{"text":50165,"start":5009,"end":5048},"Aber es ist halt trotzdem noch mal was anderes, finde ich.",{"text":50167,"start":5048,"end":5186},"Also wenn man heute eine Tenntenance Hirt und die machst Du an und steckst 'n Spiel rein, trotzdem natürlich bei 'nem Commodore ein anderes Erlebnis gewesen, weil Du musstest halt irgendwas in eine Art Kommandozeile eintippen.",{"text":50074,"start":5186,"end":5194},{"text":50170,"start":5194,"end":5289},"Also das heißt so, der, es fühlte sich halt deutlich technischer an, als als der Zugriff heute ist zu spielen und das braucht es so auf jeden Fall.",{"sentences":50172,"speaker":854,"num_words":886,"start":5293,"end":5427},[50173,50175,50177,50179],{"text":50174,"start":5293,"end":5323},"Und so 'n paar Grundlagen, was bedeutet das überhaupt?",{"text":50176,"start":5323,"end":5349},"Was ist eine eine Speichermedium und so?",{"text":50178,"start":5349,"end":5377},"Also 'n paar Dinge musste man einfach wissen.",{"text":50180,"start":5381,"end":5427},"Und vielleicht war dadurch dann einfach der Zugang schon technischer, als er heute vielleicht ist.",{"sentences":50182,"speaker":282,"num_words":50192,"start":5430,"end":5631},[50183,50184,50186,50188,50190],{"text":1912,"start":5430,"end":5431},{"text":50185,"start":5435,"end":5458},"Das wird auf jeden Fall der Fall sein.",{"text":50187,"start":5458,"end":5498},"Ich hatte auch nie Spielekonsole beispielsweise, hatt ich irgendwie nie.",{"text":50189,"start":5498,"end":5567},"Also ich hab dann, wenn überhaupt dann Spiele aufm Computer gespielt und vielleicht später dann mal bei Freunden oder so was.",{"text":50191,"start":5567,"end":5631},"Aber irgendwie war mir dieses, okay, ich hab jetzt eine Kommandozeile und musste irgendwie was eintippen, damit was passiert.",59,{"sentences":50194,"speaker":282,"num_words":49848,"start":5635,"end":5654},[50195],{"text":50196,"start":5635,"end":5654},"Ist schon irgendwie 'n gängiges Ding.",{"sentences":50198,"speaker":405,"num_words":50122,"start":5658,"end":5751},[50199],{"text":50200,"start":5658,"end":5751},"Wann hattest Du so zum ersten Mal das Gefühl, dass Computer so in deiner Zukunft, in deiner Ausbildung, in deinem Job eine Rolle spielen können?",{"sentences":50202,"speaker":282,"num_words":50213,"start":5755,"end":5999},[50203,50205,50207,50209,50211],{"text":50204,"start":5755,"end":5803},"Ich glaub, das war nachm Abi erst so richtig, beziehungsweise Fachabi hab ich gemacht.",{"text":50206,"start":5807,"end":5855},"Weil ich dann irgendwann gemerkt hab, okay, ich beschäftige mich viel mehr mit technischen Sachen.",{"text":50208,"start":5855,"end":5905},"Und ich wusste damals nicht so richtig, was ich, was der nächste Schritt sein sollte.",{"text":50210,"start":5909,"end":5965},"Und das kam dadurch zustande, weil ich war zum Beispiel gar nicht gut in der Schule.",{"text":50212,"start":5965,"end":5999},"Also ich gab nur 3 Fächer, wo ich gut war.",70,{"sentences":50215,"speaker":282,"num_words":50226,"start":5999,"end":6379},[50216,50218,50220,50222,50224],{"text":50217,"start":5999,"end":6023},"Das war Sport, Mathe und Kunst.",{"text":50219,"start":6027,"end":6142},"Und ich hab dann irgendwie später herausgefunden, weil Du musst die Schule wechseln, bin dann auf eine Fachoberschule gegangen und hab in dem Bereich Elektrotechnik meine mein Fachabitur gemacht.",{"text":50221,"start":6145,"end":6190},"Und das zu machen, musstest Du 'n Jahr lang 'n Praktikum machen auch.",{"text":50223,"start":6190,"end":6324},"Heißt, Du bist zur Schule gegangen und hast 'n Jahr lang auch Praktikum gemacht und ich hab das als Elektriker gemacht aufm Bau mit, also nicht nur Kabelziehen im im Rohbau, sondern auch Datennetzwerkschränke und solche Sachen.",{"text":50225,"start":6327,"end":6379},"Und hab ich schon langsam gemerkt, so, okay, irgendwie die technischen Sachen liegen mir ganz gut.",101,{"sentences":50228,"speaker":282,"num_words":49987,"start":6379,"end":6595},[50229,50231,50233,50235],{"text":50230,"start":6379,"end":6418},"Ich konnte sogar damals recht gut mit komplexen Zahlen umgehen.",{"text":50232,"start":6422,"end":6466},"Das lag mir irgendwie, also ich vor gute Mathe immer und logischen Themen.",{"text":50234,"start":6466,"end":6488},"Und dadurch kam das dann irgendwann zustande.",{"text":50236,"start":6492,"end":6595},"Also ich hab dann angefangen, mal kurz angefangen zu studieren, aber eigentlich hab ich erst danach dann gemerkt, okay, ich brauch irgendwas Praktisches und ich muss irgendwie in Richtung Ausbildung denken.",{"sentences":50238,"speaker":405,"num_words":50241,"start":6599,"end":6624},[50239],{"text":50240,"start":6599,"end":6624},"Kannst Du heute noch 'n Netzwerkkabel krempen?",7,{"sentences":50243,"speaker":282,"num_words":49841,"start":6628,"end":6708},[50244,50246,50248,50250,50252],{"text":50245,"start":6628,"end":6643},"Boah, weiß ich gar nicht.",{"text":50247,"start":6646,"end":6666},"Doch, ich, nee, wahrscheinlich nicht mehr.",{"text":50249,"start":6670,"end":6678},"Wahrscheinlich nicht mehr.",{"text":50251,"start":6678,"end":6703},"Also ist schon so so lange her wirklich.",{"text":735,"start":6707,"end":6708},{"sentences":50254,"speaker":405,"num_words":50262,"start":6711,"end":6860},[50255,50256,50258,50260],{"text":1848,"start":6711,"end":6712},{"text":50257,"start":6717,"end":6744},"Ansonsten verlernt verlernt man gefühlt irgendwie sehr schnell.",{"text":50259,"start":6744,"end":6809},"Ich hab das so während dem Hausbau, die ersten Kabel im Stecker sahen sehr schief aus bei mir.",{"text":50261,"start":6809,"end":6860},"Am Ende war ich sehr zufrieden und heut ich kenn ich's auch nicht mehr.",41,{"sentences":50264,"speaker":282,"num_words":50274,"start":6860,"end":7147},[50265,50266,50268,50270,50272],{"text":1912,"start":6860,"end":6863},{"text":50267,"start":6867,"end":6898},"Du brauchst aber spezielle Tools im Endeffekt dafür, ne.",{"text":50269,"start":6898,"end":6949},"Also es gibt ja, ich weiß gar nicht mehr, wie die heißen, euch zu sein.",{"text":50271,"start":6952,"end":7028},"Weil im Endeffekt während der Zeit, wo ich viel aufm Bau gearbeitet hab, ging's dann oft auch, also Datennetzwerkschrank hatten wir natürlich auch.",{"text":50273,"start":7028,"end":7147},"Aber der Fokus war irgendwie, in Düsseldorf aufm Bau fließen auf, nicht fließend, die Wände aufzukloppen, Kabel reinzulegen, Netzwerkschränke dann irgendwie zu verbinden und solche Sachen und Strom zu legen überall.",79,{"sentences":50276,"speaker":282,"num_words":49874,"start":7151,"end":7225},[50277],{"text":50278,"start":7151,"end":7225},"Und das war dann eher 'n bisschen ja son bisschen robustere Arbeit als jetzt tiefe Datennetzwerkthema irgendwie sich damit zu beschäftigen.",{"sentences":50280,"speaker":405,"num_words":50289,"start":7230,"end":7398},[50281,50283,50285,50287],{"text":50282,"start":7230,"end":7267},"Ach so, was waren das damals so für für Kunden, für Projekte?",{"text":50284,"start":7267,"end":7289},"Wie muss man sich das vorstellen?",{"text":50286,"start":7289,"end":7354},"Weil so Sachen wie wie Heimnetz und Automatisierung, das war ja, gab's ja damals so eigentlich kaum, oder?",{"text":50288,"start":7354,"end":7398},"Also wer hatte damals schon Interesse an so an so Set ups?",48,{"sentences":50291,"speaker":282,"num_words":50301,"start":7402,"end":7565},[50292,50293,50295,50297,50299],{"text":1912,"start":7402,"end":7403},{"text":50294,"start":7403,"end":7434},"Also es gab zum Beispiel 'n Neubau in Düsseldorf.",{"text":50296,"start":7438,"end":7518},"Und ich musste dann morgens früh schon zur Firma, weil wir 6 Uhr losgefahren sind, 7 Uhr aufm Bau in Düsseldorf zu sein.",{"text":50298,"start":7518,"end":7544},"Das heißt, ich musste sehr früh mal aufstehen.",{"text":50300,"start":7548,"end":7565},"Und dann sind wir da hingefahren.",47,{"sentences":50303,"speaker":282,"num_words":50314,"start":7565,"end":7802},[50304,50306,50308,50310,50312],{"text":50305,"start":7565,"end":7581},"Das ist 'n Neubau gewesen.",{"text":50307,"start":7585,"end":7608},"Recht wohlhabende Gegend, würd ich sagen.",{"text":50309,"start":7611,"end":7684},"Und die wollten halt nicht nur irgendwie Strom haben, sondern die wollten auch 'n Netzwerk hat in in den in den Gebäuden haben.",{"text":50311,"start":7684,"end":7765},"Und nicht irgendwie außen außen auch 'n Putz drauf zu zu klatschen, sondern wirklich in den Wänden mit Trends verarbeitet zu haben.",{"text":50313,"start":7768,"end":7802},"Das waren oft auch größere Gebäude, manchmal auch son Gewerbegebiet.",66,{"sentences":50316,"speaker":282,"num_words":50262,"start":7806,"end":7955},[50317,50319,50320,50322],{"text":50318,"start":7806,"end":7830},"Und in die Richtung ging das dann oft.",{"text":7839,"start":7835,"end":7836},{"text":50321,"start":7841,"end":7870},"Ja, von 'ner anstrengende Zeit, echt zu sein.",{"text":50323,"start":7870,"end":7955},"Aber ich hab dann gemerkt, wo der Unterschied zwischen körperlicher Arbeit ist und wenn man dann im Büro ist und seinen Kopf mehr anstrengt.",{"sentences":50325,"speaker":854,"num_words":49987,"start":7959,"end":8170},[50326,50328],{"text":50327,"start":7959,"end":8077},"Ja, kann ich mir vorstellen, dass das auch für für die spätere Zeit dann irgendwie Eindrücke sind, ne, die man mitnehmen kann und Erfahrungen, wenn man wenn man unterschiedliche Dinge irgendwie gemacht hat in der Zeit.",{"text":50329,"start":8081,"end":8170},"Du hast gesagt, Du hast das Studium abgebrochen, weil Du dann es praktisch, also Du warst eher praxisorientiert und wolltest daher eher eine Ausbildung machen?",{"sentences":50331,"speaker":282,"num_words":50192,"start":8174,"end":8378},[50332,50333,50335,50337,50339],{"text":1912,"start":8174,"end":8175},{"text":50334,"start":8175,"end":8255},"Also ich hab ich hab nach meinem Fachabi, was in Elektrotechnik abgeschlossen wurde, hab ich gedacht, boah, ich war so gut da drin.",{"text":50336,"start":8259,"end":8277},"Also was heißt so gut, ne?",{"text":50338,"start":8277,"end":8295},"Ich hatte einigermaßen guten Abschluss.",{"text":50340,"start":8299,"end":8378},"Aber ich dachte mir, okay, ich werd jetzt studieren, weil ich wusste nicht, was ich jetzt irgendwie als Ausbildung oder arbeitstechnik direkt machen sollte.",{"sentences":50342,"speaker":282,"num_words":50352,"start":8382,"end":8631},[50343,50345,50347,50349,50351],{"text":50344,"start":8382,"end":8404},"Nun hab ich gedacht, ich mach jetzt Elektrotechnik.",{"text":50346,"start":8408,"end":8463},"Und ich war damals so, hatt ich so gehört, wenn Du Elektrotechnik studierst, das machen nicht viele.",{"text":50348,"start":8467,"end":8561},"Und wenn Du da 'n zweiten Semester schon durch bist, sprich dich schon Siemens an und dann kriegst Du 'n Vertrag und verdienst direkt 2500 Euro.",{"text":50350,"start":8561,"end":8626},"Und das hat mich voll so Ich war son bisschen, dachte so, boah, geil, dann verdienstste dein eigenes Geld.",{"text":1113,"start":8630,"end":8631},71,{"sentences":50354,"speaker":282,"num_words":50365,"start":8635,"end":8889},[50355,50357,50359,50361,50363],{"text":50356,"start":8635,"end":8746},"Und dann bin ich da hingegangen, hab das ein, 2 Semester gemacht und wir waren da zu viert in dem ganzen Studiengang gefühlt, wo wo jeder son bisschen für sich so gearbeitet hat.",{"text":50358,"start":8746,"end":8803},"Und ich da, ich bin halt jemand, der, ich spiel Fußball und so, also jetzt nicht mehr.",{"text":50360,"start":8803,"end":8837},"Aber in der Vergangenheit hab ich sehr viel Fußball gespielt.",{"text":50362,"start":8840,"end":8868},"So viel das Teamgefühl mochte ich sehr gerne.",{"text":50364,"start":8872,"end":8889},"Und das hat irgendwie nicht gepasst.",74,{"sentences":50367,"speaker":282,"num_words":50378,"start":8889,"end":9114},[50368,50370,50372,50374,50376],{"text":50369,"start":8889,"end":8926},"Und das war sehr theoretisch alles, also Vorlesungen zu haben.",{"text":50371,"start":8926,"end":8967},"Und dann hab ich irgendwann gemerkt, okay, das passt gar nicht so richtig.",{"text":50373,"start":8971,"end":8984},"Und dann hab ich's abgebrochen.",{"text":50375,"start":8988,"end":9098},"Ich hatte während der Zeit auch nebenberuflich noch in in in der Kita gearbeitet, was da noch mal andere Perspektive reinbringt, glaub Aber ich hab dann irgendwann entschieden, okay, das geht nicht.",{"text":50377,"start":9098,"end":9114},"Ich muss was anderes machen.",65,{"sentences":50380,"speaker":282,"num_words":50391,"start":9118,"end":9436},[50381,50383,50385,50387,50389],{"text":50382,"start":9118,"end":9151},"Und dann hab ich mich angefangen, als Fachinformatiker zu bewerben.",{"text":50384,"start":9155,"end":9178},"Genau, das hat im ersten Schritt nicht funktioniert.",{"text":50386,"start":9178,"end":9214},"Ich weiß, hab noch hat sich son bisschen meinen Kopf reingebrannt.",{"text":50388,"start":9214,"end":9263},"Ich hab 65 Bewerbungen geschrieben und das war nicht damals, ich 65 Bewerbungen geschrieben.",{"text":50390,"start":9267,"end":9436},"Und das war nicht damals so, dass man das irgendwie per PDF und dann verschickt man das irgendwie, sondern also handschriftlich war's auch nicht mehr, aber ich musste schon alles ausdrucken in sone schöne Mappe reinpacken und dann per Post da hinschicken, damit das nicht verknickt und alles.",91,{"sentences":50393,"speaker":282,"num_words":50404,"start":9436,"end":9602},[50394,50396,50398,50400,50402],{"text":50395,"start":9436,"end":9459},"Manchmal hab ich sogar persönlich vorbeigebracht.",{"text":50397,"start":9463,"end":9475},"Und keiner wollte mich.",{"text":50399,"start":9475,"end":9492},"Keiner wollte mich als Fachinformatiker.",{"text":50401,"start":9496,"end":9574},"Und dann hab ich irgendwann in, also ich hab so auch in der Umgebung von Essen, weil ich bin in Essen groß geworden.",{"text":50403,"start":9578,"end":9602},"In der Umgebung hab ich mich auch beworben.",46,{"sentences":50406,"speaker":282,"num_words":50417,"start":9606,"end":9826},[50407,50409,50411,50413,50415],{"text":50408,"start":9606,"end":9681},"Und dann hab ich irgendwann dann gesehen, dass in Essen eine Rolle offen ist für eine Ausbildung im Bereich Mediengestaltung, Non Print.",{"text":50410,"start":9685,"end":9718},"Und ich hatt ich mir 'n bisschen durchgelesen, was das ist.",{"text":50412,"start":9721,"end":9766},"Und dacht mir, okay, so richtig funktioniert das nicht, aber bewirb dich mal da drauf.",{"text":50414,"start":9770,"end":9812},"Und das war, also hatt ich 'n sehr glückliches Händchen, glaub ich.",{"text":50416,"start":9815,"end":9826},"Also ich hatte Glück.",64,{"sentences":50419,"speaker":282,"num_words":50430,"start":9826,"end":10083},[50420,50422,50424,50426,50428],{"text":50421,"start":9826,"end":9861},"Also 'n Händchen hatt ich vielleicht nicht, ich hatte einfach Glück.",{"text":50423,"start":9864,"end":9931},"Weil da hab ich im Endeffekt das Team oder die Chefs kennengelernt, die mich, die mir alles eigentlich beigebracht haben.",{"text":50425,"start":9934,"end":9969},"Es war zwar eine, also ich bin zum Bewerbungsgespräch gegangen.",{"text":50427,"start":9973,"end":10014},"Die waren so modern, die meinten, ja, schick mir mal eine PDF.",{"text":50429,"start":10018,"end":10083},"Und dann hab ich son PDF Generator genommen, wo noch son Logo von dem Tool draufstand und so was.",72,{"sentences":50432,"speaker":282,"num_words":50262,"start":10087,"end":10232},[50433,50435,50437,50439,50441],{"text":50434,"start":10087,"end":10101},"Fand die aber trotzdem gut.",{"text":50436,"start":10101,"end":10126},"Die meinten, hast Du hast Du gut gemacht?",{"text":50438,"start":10130,"end":10173},"Und die meinten, ja, eigentlich suchen wir Fachinformatiker, aber wir sind alles Mediengestalter.",{"text":50440,"start":10177,"end":10193},"Wir können keinen Fachinformatiker ausbilden.",{"text":50442,"start":10198,"end":10232},"Deswegen würden wir dich als Mediengestalter ausbinden im Bereich Nonprint.",{"sentences":50444,"speaker":282,"num_words":50455,"start":10236,"end":10398},[50445,50447,50449,50451,50453],{"text":50446,"start":10236,"end":10277},"Also man muss dazu sagen, ich glaub, die heißen, die Rollen heißen jetzt anders.",{"text":50448,"start":10277,"end":10298},"Aber es gibt Print und Nonprint.",{"text":50450,"start":10298,"end":10317},"Das heißt alles, was gedruckt wird.",{"text":50452,"start":10317,"end":10374},"Und Nonprint ist eher so alles, was digital ist von Präsentation bis Webseiten und so was.",{"text":50454,"start":10377,"end":10398},"Und die meinen, Du kannst Nonprint machen.",49,{"sentences":50457,"speaker":282,"num_words":50468,"start":10401,"end":10604},[50458,50460,50462,50464,50466],{"text":50459,"start":10401,"end":10463},"Und wir würden schätzen, so 60, 70 Prozent ist Softwareentwicklung und alles andere ist im Bereich Design.",{"text":50461,"start":10463,"end":10524},"Und dann dacht ich mir, okay, ich sag gar nicht verkehrt, so beide Welten vielleicht son bisschen kennenzulernen.",{"text":50463,"start":10528,"end":10544},"Und dann hab ich das gemacht.",{"text":50465,"start":10547,"end":10591},"Und bevor ich die Ausbildung angefangen hab, wurd ich dann ins Linuxhotel geschickt.",{"text":50467,"start":10591,"end":10604},"Kennt ihr das?",57,{"sentences":50470,"speaker":282,"num_words":50480,"start":10608,"end":10757},[50471,50472,50474,50476,50478],{"text":1113,"start":10608,"end":10609},{"text":50473,"start":10613,"end":10617},"Ich nicht.",{"text":50475,"start":10620,"end":10677},"Ja, das ist das ist 'n Hotel, eigentlich ist das sone riesige Villa in in Essen auch.",{"text":50477,"start":10680,"end":10744},"Und also der, der das organisiert hat, der hat einfach eine riesige Villa gebaut und hat, macht da Workshops.",{"text":50479,"start":10744,"end":10757},"Und das heißt, Du",43,{"sentences":50482,"speaker":405,"num_words":50485,"start":10760,"end":10801},[50483],{"text":50484,"start":10760,"end":10801},"Ach, der hat die, ich dacht, das sone alte Gründerzeitwille, die sieht",12,{"sentences":50487,"speaker":282,"num_words":50498,"start":10801,"end":11082},[50488,50490,50492,50494,50496],{"text":50489,"start":10801,"end":10828},"immer so Also der hat die renoviert, ne.",{"text":50491,"start":10828,"end":10861},"Also der hat das nicht grad als selber gebaut, also.",{"text":50493,"start":10861,"end":10972},"Der hat das irgendwann übernommen und hat daraus irgendwie son riesige Villa gemacht, wo Du halt für eine Woche oder fürn Wochenende hin kannst und dann machst Du Workshops, machst Du zum Beispiel.",{"text":50495,"start":10972,"end":10997},"Also ich hab Japan am Anfang kennengelernt.",{"text":50497,"start":10997,"end":11082},"Ich bin da hingefahren, saß dann dafür, ich glaub, eine Woche sogar was oder 4 Tage und hab Java gelernt, hab Workshops gemacht.",81,{"sentences":50500,"speaker":282,"num_words":50352,"start":11085,"end":11326},[50501,50503,50505,50507,50509],{"text":50502,"start":11085,"end":11156},"Und da waren ganz viele andere Leute auch da, die beispielsweise aus München kommen und die konnten dann in der Villa übernachten.",{"text":50504,"start":11160,"end":11200},"Und da gibt's halt so in der Villa halt alles drum und dran.",{"text":50506,"start":11200,"end":11243},"Also Du hast eine gute Zeit und Du lernst auch noch zusätzlich was.",{"text":50508,"start":11246,"end":11302},"Und soweit ich weiß, sind da eigentlich größere Unternehmen immer wieder hingegangen, ihre Personal zu schulen.",{"text":50510,"start":11302,"end":11326},"Deswegen dacht ich vielleicht, kennt ihr das?",{"sentences":50512,"speaker":854,"num_words":49848,"start":11329,"end":11348},[50513],{"text":50514,"start":11329,"end":11348},"Du hast ja auch genickt, ne?",{"sentences":50516,"speaker":405,"num_words":49869,"start":11348,"end":11358},[50517],{"text":50518,"start":11348,"end":11358},"Ja, ja, also",{"sentences":50520,"speaker":282,"num_words":50021,"start":11361,"end":11394},[50521],{"text":50522,"start":11361,"end":11394},"Du kannst ja Du Du kannst ja die Geschichte irgendwie.",{"sentences":50524,"speaker":405,"num_words":50534,"start":11397,"end":11622},[50525,50527,50529,50531,50532],{"text":50526,"start":11397,"end":11488},"Ich war nie selber da, weil ich so früh in meiner Karriere niemanden hatte, der das hätte für mich bezahlen können, wollen, wie auch immer.",{"text":50528,"start":11492,"end":11585},"Aber das Linuxhotel, das war damals so, ich glaub, Dauerwerbeast so in den ganzen Foren und Computer Printmagazin und so was, was man so konsumiert hat.",{"text":50530,"start":11585,"end":11605},"Also präsent war das halt schon.",{"text":1917,"start":11605,"end":11609},{"text":50533,"start":11609,"end":11622},"Die gibt's immer noch.",62,{"sentences":50536,"speaker":405,"num_words":258,"start":11622,"end":11650},[50537],{"text":50538,"start":11622,"end":11650},"Ich hab grad mal auf der Webseite geguckt.",{"sentences":50540,"speaker":282,"num_words":50550,"start":11650,"end":11894},[50541,50543,50544,50546,50548],{"text":50542,"start":11650,"end":11693},"Ja, ich will will da Vogelsang oder so was, glaub ich, ne.",{"text":1912,"start":11693,"end":11696},{"text":50545,"start":11699,"end":11713},"Ja, es war ganz nett.",{"text":50547,"start":11713,"end":11748},"Und da hab ich dann im Endeffekt angefangen, Java zu lernen.",{"text":50549,"start":11752,"end":11894},"Ich muss dazu sagen, ich hatte, also warum die mich als Ausbildung, glaub ich, auch, also für die Ausbildung genommen haben, ich hab vorher an der Volkshochschule Java und c plus plus noch mal so Kurse gemacht, was in meinem CV natürlich zu haben.",73,{"sentences":50552,"speaker":282,"num_words":50563,"start":11897,"end":12168},[50553,50555,50557,50559,50561],{"text":50554,"start":11897,"end":11922},"Aber also ihr wisst ja, wie das ist.",{"text":50556,"start":11922,"end":11981},"Am Anfang, wenn man irgendwie 'n Java Kurs macht, man versteht eigentlich überhaupt nicht, was man da tut.",{"text":50558,"start":11985,"end":12033},"Und sogar nach dem Kurs hab ich noch nicht richtig verstanden, was ich da tue.",{"text":50560,"start":12033,"end":12056},"Das hat bei mir wirklich lange gedauert.",{"text":50562,"start":12060,"end":12168},"Ich glaub, es hat son Jahr lang gedauert, bis ich wirklich verstanden hab, bis ich die Synapsen in meinem Gehirn gebildet haben, bis ich verstanden hab, was objektorientierte Programmierung ist und so.",80,{"sentences":50565,"speaker":282,"num_words":50570,"start":12171,"end":12273},[50566,50568],{"text":50567,"start":12171,"end":12214},"Also ich hab da echt lange gebraucht, aber ja, das war 'n Superteam.",{"text":50569,"start":12218,"end":12273},"Ich hab recht viel von unterschiedlichen Seiten, unterschiedliche Aspekte einfach kennengelernt in von von diesem Team.",29,{"sentences":50572,"speaker":854,"num_words":49911,"start":12277,"end":12341},[50573],{"text":50574,"start":12277,"end":12341},"Und Du hast dann aber doch noch mal, wenn ich das richtig gelesen hab, parallel noch mal studiert, ne?",{"sentences":50576,"speaker":282,"num_words":854,"start":12341,"end":12349},[50577,50578],{"text":1912,"start":12341,"end":12344},{"text":2518,"start":12348,"end":12349},{"sentences":50580,"speaker":854,"num_words":49944,"start":12349,"end":12378},[50581],{"text":50582,"start":12349,"end":12378},"Du das Studium so gut fand, ist das Erste.",{"sentences":50584,"speaker":282,"num_words":50593,"start":12382,"end":12598},[50585,50586,50588,50589,50591],{"text":1912,"start":12382,"end":12383},{"text":50587,"start":12387,"end":12468},"Ja, nicht unbedingt, aber also ich glaub, das ist auch vielleicht vom Familienhaus son bisschen drin, dass man immer gesagt hat, okay, Du musst studieren.",{"text":1113,"start":12472,"end":12473},{"text":50590,"start":12473,"end":12555},"Und ich hatte irgendwie im Kopf, okay, und meine Schwester hatte auch studiert und ich hab mir überlegt, okay, Du hast jetzt eine Ausbildung.",{"text":50592,"start":12555,"end":12598},"Ich war noch in in der Ausbildungsphase, die geht 3 Jahre normalerweise.",63,{"sentences":50595,"speaker":282,"num_words":50593,"start":12598,"end":12816},[50596,50598,50600,50602,50604],{"text":50597,"start":12598,"end":12617},"Ich hatte verkürzt auf zweieinhalb.",{"text":50599,"start":12617,"end":12733},"Und nach 2 Jahren, dadurch, dass ich das so gut verbinden konnte mit dem Praktischen und dem Theoretischen in der in der Schule, meinten meine Chefs damals, ja, die wollen auch noch mal studieren.",{"text":50601,"start":12733,"end":12764},"Die waren so 10, 15 Jahre älter als ich.",{"text":50603,"start":12767,"end":12795},"Die würden auch jetzt noch mal 'n Bachelor machen.",{"text":50605,"start":12798,"end":12816},"Wollen wir das nicht zusammen machen?",{"sentences":50607,"speaker":282,"num_words":50617,"start":12819,"end":12996},[50608,50610,50612,50613,50615],{"text":50609,"start":12819,"end":12849},"Und ich hab dann überlegt, ja, wo können wir das machen?",{"text":50611,"start":12849,"end":12923},"Und dann gab's halt diese FOM in Essen, da gibt's deutschlandweit ist sone Fachhochschule, wo man nebenberuflich halt spielen kann.",{"text":1113,"start":12923,"end":12926},{"text":50614,"start":12926,"end":12948},"Das heißt, man geht am Wochenende dahin.",{"text":50616,"start":12952,"end":12996},"Und nach dem zweiten Jahr Ausbildung hab ich dann angefangen, auch das Studium anzufangen.",53,{"sentences":50619,"speaker":282,"num_words":50430,"start":13000,"end":13246},[50620,50622,50624,50626,50628],{"text":50621,"start":13000,"end":13046},"Das war dann Bachelor im ersten Schritt und dann hab ich noch im Master hinterhergegangen.",{"text":50623,"start":13050,"end":13123},"Also ich hab auch Medien- und Webinformatik am Anfang studiert und im Master ist dann eher Richtung Management, IT Management gegangen.",{"text":50625,"start":13126,"end":13134},"War sehr anstrengend.",{"text":50627,"start":13138,"end":13164},"Ich hatte auch eine Freundin während der Zeit.",{"text":50629,"start":13164,"end":13246},"Ich weiß nicht, wie ich's gemacht hab, möcht ich sagen, weil Du bist ja am Wochenende halt auch irgendwie in der Uni die ganze Zeit.",{"sentences":50631,"speaker":282,"num_words":282,"start":13246,"end":13249},[50632],{"text":1113,"start":13246,"end":13249},{"sentences":50634,"speaker":405,"num_words":50135,"start":13249,"end":13396},[50635,50637],{"text":50636,"start":13249,"end":13290},"Warum hat das Studieren im zweiten Durchlauf besser funktioniert als im ersten?",{"text":50638,"start":13294,"end":13396},"Was also weil Du dann besser wusstest, was Du eigentlich wolltest oder weil das Studienangebot 'n besseres war oder weil Du mit anderen zusammen irgendwie hingegangen bist, was hat dich da durchgezogen?",{"sentences":50640,"speaker":282,"num_words":50651,"start":13400,"end":13757},[50641,50643,50645,50647,50649],{"text":50642,"start":13400,"end":13415},"Ja, das waren mehrere Sachen.",{"text":50644,"start":13415,"end":13478},"Also das eine war, glaub ich, dass ich son klarere Linie habe hatte, über was ich jetzt mache.",{"text":50646,"start":13478,"end":13549},"Weil ich ich hab am Anfang ja Java gelernt und hab so das Technische und Backend Entwicklung und so was verstanden.",{"text":50648,"start":13553,"end":13600},"Und ich hatte immer son gewisses Interesse, so dieses das große Ganze zu verstehen.",{"text":50650,"start":13600,"end":13757},"Deswegen fand ich schon ganz cool, dass ich Programmierung verstanden hab, Design dann auch schon im in der Ausbildung drin hatte und verstanden hab, wie man so Frontends baut und gestaltet und Logos und und all so Themen waren halt irgendwie da auch immer da.",103,{"sentences":50653,"speaker":282,"num_words":50417,"start":13761,"end":13976},[50654,50656,50658,50660,50662],{"text":50655,"start":13761,"end":13834},"Und dann hab ich immer mehr und mehr gesehen, okay, vieles, was ich jetzt irgendwie gelernt hab, das ist theoretisch in dem Studium da.",{"text":50657,"start":13834,"end":13863},"Das heißt, ich hab da sehr gute Voraussetzungen einfach.",{"text":50659,"start":13867,"end":13882},"Und mir fiel das leichter.",{"text":50661,"start":13882,"end":13926},"Mir fiel das leichter, durch dieses praktische und theoretische gleichzeitig zu haben.",{"text":50663,"start":13926,"end":13976},"Also als ich im Bachelorstudium angefangen hab, war ich ganz vielen schon voraus, ja.",{"sentences":50665,"speaker":282,"num_words":50192,"start":13976,"end":14179},[50666,50668,50670,50672,50674],{"text":50667,"start":13976,"end":14033},"Und man muss dazu sagen, in der Fachhochschule ist es auch eher wie in der Schule so strukturiert.",{"text":50669,"start":14037,"end":14074},"Du hast so ähnlich wie Stundenpläne, die für recht fix sind.",{"text":50671,"start":14074,"end":14119},"Da kommst Du Also eigentlich sollst Du immer kommen, aber ist nicht verpflichtend.",{"text":50673,"start":14123,"end":14174},"Bei der Uni ist ja eher so, dass es dass Du dir deinen Stundenplan selber zusammenstellst.",{"text":1912,"start":14178,"end":14179},{"sentences":50676,"speaker":282,"num_words":50192,"start":14183,"end":14394},[50677],{"text":50678,"start":14183,"end":14394},"Dadurch, dass das son bisschen mehr strukturierter war und ich auch Geld dafür gezahlt hab und ich mir gedacht hab, okay, da ist jetzt 'n gewisser Druck hinter, ich hab ich zahl dafür jeden Monat 300, 400 Euro von meinem kleinen, also was ist klein, aber war schon, war jetzt kein Großgehalt, dann hat man eine andere Motivation dahinter.",{"sentences":50680,"speaker":405,"num_words":49911,"start":14399,"end":14471},[50681,50682],{"text":14403,"start":14399,"end":14400},{"text":50683,"start":14405,"end":14471},"Wie lange bist Du dann bei dieser Firma geblieben und hast unter dem Deckmantel von Grafikdesign Software entwickelt?",{"sentences":50685,"speaker":282,"num_words":50289,"start":14475,"end":14644},[50686,50688,50689],{"text":50687,"start":14475,"end":14551},"Ja, also man muss dazu sagen, es war nicht so richtig der Deckmantel, weil das Unternehmen war 'n PrePress Team, also son Druckvorstufe.",{"text":1113,"start":14555,"end":14556},{"text":50690,"start":14556,"end":14644},"Das ist, bevor es bevor so Sachen in den Druck gehen gehen, wird das ja mit Adobe, Photoshop und so was alles vorbereitet, Layout.",{"sentences":50692,"speaker":405,"num_words":50122,"start":14644,"end":14734},[50693,50695],{"text":50694,"start":14644,"end":14682},"Okay, dann das sag ich ganz kurz zur Unterbrechung noch mal.",{"text":50696,"start":14682,"end":14734},"Wenn wenn das das Hauptfeld der der Firma, warum haben die 'n Softwareentwickler gebraucht?",{"sentences":50698,"speaker":282,"num_words":49906,"start":14738,"end":14976},[50699,50700,50702,50704,50706],{"text":14742,"start":14738,"end":14739},{"text":50701,"start":14739,"end":14757},"Da komm ich jetzt drauf.",{"text":50703,"start":14760,"end":14847},"Es war ein Großunternehmen, die beispielsweise damals für Einzel für Supermärkte diese Handflyer gemacht haben, wo dann drinsteht, welche Produkte beispielsweise drin sind.",{"text":50705,"start":14847,"end":14895},"Und das war 'n recht großes europäisches Unternehmen, das heißt, die hatten sehr viele Aufträge.",{"text":50707,"start":14899,"end":14976},"Und wenn Du so viele Aufträge hast und viele Bilder und viele PDF Dateien, die dann in den Druck gehen, brauchst Du Server.",{"sentences":50709,"speaker":282,"num_words":50563,"start":14980,"end":15260},[50710,50712,50714,50716,50718],{"text":50711,"start":14980,"end":14998},"Und die haben eigene Server gehabt.",{"text":50713,"start":14998,"end":15042},"Die haben komplett eigene Systeme gehabt, wo sehr viel IT nötig war.",{"text":50715,"start":15045,"end":15099},"Und ja, da dadurch haben die irgendwann ein kleineres Unternehmen gegründet, was Mark 5 hieß.",{"text":50717,"start":15099,"end":15159},"Das war, glaub ich, der Name war, glaub ich, orientiert an irgend 'nem Roboter oder so was.",{"text":50719,"start":15159,"end":15260},"Ich ich kenn den Film leider nicht, aber das das war die Und in dem Team waren so 3, 4, 5 Leute, die haben im Bereich Digital Asset Management gearbeitet.",{"sentences":50721,"speaker":282,"num_words":50122,"start":15260,"end":15347},[50722,50724,50726,50728,50729],{"text":50723,"start":15260,"end":15277},"Und ich war 1 davon.",{"text":50725,"start":15281,"end":15308},"Digital Asset Management, das sind so riesige Multimedia Datenbanken.",{"text":50727,"start":15312,"end":15340},"Kennt ihr, habt ihr schon begehrt, glaub ich, ne.",{"text":1113,"start":15340,"end":15343},{"text":1912,"start":15343,"end":15347},{"sentences":50731,"speaker":282,"num_words":50737,"start":15347,"end":15543},[50732,50733,50735],{"text":14742,"start":15347,"end":15351},{"text":50734,"start":15354,"end":15489},"Und dadurch kam was halt zustande und ich hab sehr viel, also mit den Leuten hab hab ich 7 Jahre insgesamt zusammengearbeitet in unterschiedlichen Unternehmen, weil die irgendwann 'n eigenes gegründet haben und ich kurze Zeit danach mit drüber gegangen bin.",{"text":50736,"start":15493,"end":15543},"Aber das war so das Feld, also Javaentwicklung, dicke Asset Management, große Multimedadaten Datenbank.",56,{"sentences":50739,"speaker":405,"num_words":50745,"start":15547,"end":15645},[50740,50741,50743],{"text":7839,"start":15547,"end":15548},{"text":50742,"start":15552,"end":15632},"Und wann und wie bist Du dann in deine erste Tech Rolle mit so wirklich Verantwortung für Menschen, für Projekte, für Ja.",{"text":50744,"start":15636,"end":15645},"Alles andere gekommen?",26,{"sentences":50747,"speaker":282,"num_words":50365,"start":15649,"end":15889},[50748,50750,50752,50754,50756],{"text":50749,"start":15649,"end":15695},"Also ich muss dazu sagen, ich ich hatte schon recht viel früh Verantwortung für Projekte.",{"text":50751,"start":15695,"end":15763},"Nicht so sehr für Menschen, weil wir waren am Anfang, also was heißt Also das Team war, wir waren so 4 Personen.",{"text":50753,"start":15767,"end":15790},"Im Endeffekt waren's 3 Geschäftsführer und ich.",{"text":50755,"start":15793,"end":15857},"1 war mehr fokussiert auf Sales und externe Sachen, der andere eher für die Entwicklung und eine Person für Design.",{"text":50757,"start":15857,"end":15889},"Und ich konnte von all diesen 3 unterschiedlichen Sachen lernen.",{"sentences":50759,"speaker":282,"num_words":50770,"start":15893,"end":16189},[50760,50762,50764,50766,50768],{"text":50761,"start":15893,"end":15989},"Und die Projekte, die wir damals hatten, ich erinner mich noch, es war gar nicht so, dass irgendwie oder oder, Grand and Backend, den Unterschied gab's gar nicht bei uns.",{"text":50763,"start":15989,"end":16027},"Also Du warst irgendwie Mitarbeiter der IT und Du hast alles gemacht.",{"text":50765,"start":16030,"end":16084},"Du warst dafür verantwortlich, das Frontend irgendwie zu gestalten und die Datenbankstruktur dahinter zu entwickeln.",{"text":50767,"start":16088,"end":16119},"Das heißt, das ist ja jetzt erst so hochprofessionalisiert worden.",{"text":50769,"start":16123,"end":16189},"Und zu dem Zeitpunkt war das gar nicht, deswegen hatt ich schon viel Eigenverantwortung für gewisse Projekte, wurd immer geführt.",87,{"sentences":50772,"speaker":282,"num_words":50122,"start":16192,"end":16270},[50773],{"text":50774,"start":16192,"end":16270},"Und so richtig mit Mitarbeiter, das ist eigentlich erst dann passiert, als ich das Team verlassen hab und nach meinem Studium nach Berlin gezogen bin.",{"sentences":50776,"speaker":405,"num_words":49911,"start":16273,"end":16339},[50777,50779],{"text":50778,"start":16273,"end":16291},"Was hat dich nach Berlin gezogen?",{"text":50780,"start":16291,"end":16339},"War das so die klassische Start-up Goldgräberstimmung oder wie bist Du da hingekommen?",{"sentences":50782,"speaker":282,"num_words":50793,"start":16344,"end":16676},[50783,50785,50787,50789,50791],{"text":50784,"start":16344,"end":16359},"Ey, würd ich nicht sagen.",{"text":50786,"start":16359,"end":16393},"Also ich war gar nicht im ersten Schritt in Start ups.",{"text":50788,"start":16393,"end":16499},"Ich hatte meinen Masterstudien fertig und dachte mir, okay, ich hab jetzt so lange fünfeinhalb Jahre nebenberuflich studiert und jetzt willst Du ja irgendwie was davon haben, bisschen mehr Geld verdienen.",{"text":50790,"start":16503,"end":16595},"Und ich hatte ein, 2 Workshops gegeben für Unternehmen in Berlin und die fronten mich so toll und haben gefragt, ob ich nicht für die arbeiten möchte.",{"text":50792,"start":16599,"end":16676},"Und gleichzeitig war hatt ich ein, 2 Freunde, die in Berlin von einem Jahr dann irgendwie nach Berlin gezogen sind, da angefangen haben zu arbeiten.",99,{"sentences":50795,"speaker":282,"num_words":49996,"start":16680,"end":16848},[50796,50798,50800],{"text":50797,"start":16680,"end":16761},"Und die hatten eine Fünfer WG und da waren Zimmer frei und das hat sich so irgendwie natürlich ergeben, würd ich würd ich sagen.",{"text":50799,"start":16764,"end":16818},"Also es ging gar nicht darum so unbedingt, ich müsste jetzt in die Start ups hier eintauchen.",{"text":50801,"start":16822,"end":16848},"Die ersten Unternehmen waren auch gar keine Start ups.",{"sentences":50803,"speaker":405,"num_words":50008,"start":16851,"end":16911},[50804,50806],{"text":50805,"start":16851,"end":16870},"Was waren die ersten Unternehmen für Unternehmen?",{"text":50807,"start":16870,"end":16911},"Also so Größe, Branche, wie wie bist Du da so durchgekommen?",{"sentences":50809,"speaker":282,"num_words":50114,"start":16915,"end":17020},[50810,50811,50813,50815,50817],{"text":1912,"start":16915,"end":16916},{"text":50812,"start":16920,"end":16939},"Also das erste Unternehmen war sone Gruppe.",{"text":50814,"start":16939,"end":16955},"Das war, gab's mehrere Unternehmen.",{"text":50816,"start":16955,"end":16982},"Ich war in einem der Subunternehmen drin.",{"text":50818,"start":16985,"end":17020},"Aber das Hautunternehmen, das hieß Maschine und die haben gemacht.",{"sentences":50820,"speaker":282,"num_words":49869,"start":17020,"end":17029},[50821],{"text":50467,"start":17020,"end":17029},{"sentences":50823,"speaker":405,"num_words":49869,"start":17031,"end":17040},[50824],{"text":50825,"start":17031,"end":17040},"Das sagt mir,",{"sentences":50827,"speaker":854,"num_words":49864,"start":17040,"end":17056},[50828],{"text":50829,"start":17040,"end":17056},"mit Pferden zu tun?",{"sentences":50831,"speaker":282,"num_words":50838,"start":17056,"end":17096},[50832,50833,50835,50836],{"text":50074,"start":17056,"end":17064},{"text":50834,"start":17064,"end":17081},"Das ist so diese Pferdeshow.",{"text":1912,"start":17085,"end":17086},{"text":50837,"start":17086,"end":17096},"Ich war da",11,{"sentences":50840,"speaker":405,"num_words":49853,"start":17096,"end":17112},[50841],{"text":50842,"start":17096,"end":17112},"ich war da schon mal.",{"sentences":50844,"speaker":282,"num_words":886,"start":17112,"end":17249},[50845,50846,50848,50849,50851],{"text":17118,"start":17112,"end":17115},{"text":50847,"start":17115,"end":17124},"Sehr gut.",{"text":1912,"start":17124,"end":17127},{"text":50850,"start":17127,"end":17191},"Ja, das ist diese Pferdeshow im Endeffekt, die, also die heißen jetzt anders, glaub ich, die europaweit getourt sind.",{"text":50852,"start":17191,"end":17249},"Und die haben halt auch Subunternehmen gehabt, die sich so mit IT- und Psychografiethemen beschäftigt haben.",{"sentences":50854,"speaker":282,"num_words":50078,"start":17249,"end":17336},[50855,50857,50859],{"text":50856,"start":17249,"end":17295},"Das heißt, die haben, sagt euch mal ja was, so Persönlichkeitstest, genau.",{"text":50858,"start":17295,"end":17322},"So was haben die gemacht, aber visuell basiert.",{"text":50860,"start":17322,"end":17336},"Also nicht fragen basiert.",{"sentences":50862,"speaker":405,"num_words":282,"start":17339,"end":17340},[50863],{"text":1917,"start":17339,"end":17340},{"sentences":50865,"speaker":282,"num_words":50876,"start":17344,"end":17656},[50866,50868,50870,50872,50874],{"text":50867,"start":17344,"end":17413},"Sondern die haben das visuell gemacht, sodass Du halt nicht direkt aus der Frage schließen kann kannst und das nicht manipulieren kannst.",{"text":50869,"start":17413,"end":17456},"Und das war recht interessant und die haben das für Werbung eingesetzt.",{"text":50871,"start":17460,"end":17489},"Das heißt, wenn Du die, also hat man das genannt.",{"text":50873,"start":17489,"end":17627},"Wenn Du jetzt, keine Ahnung, Du gehst auf irgend 'n E-Commerce-Seite und schaust dir 'n Nike Schuh an und gehst nachher auf Spiegel d e oder so was und dann siehst Du den Schuh auf einmal da wieder.",{"text":50875,"start":17631,"end":17656},"Das ist ja kein Persönlichkeitsprofil angezeigt wird.",89,{"sentences":50878,"speaker":282,"num_words":50593,"start":17656,"end":17868},[50879,50881,50883],{"text":50880,"start":17656,"end":17718},"Das heißt, wenn Du zum Beispiel sehr detailliert 'n detaillierter Typ bist, dann haben die dir eher Details angezeigt.",{"text":50882,"start":17722,"end":17821},"Und wenn Du eher jemand bist, der so das große Ganze sehen will, dann haben die das vielleicht gezeigt, wie der Schuh jemand den Schuh anhält und grade am Laufen ist.",{"text":50884,"start":17824,"end":17868},"Solche Themen haben lieb ich gemacht und ich durfte an dem System mitentwickeln.",{"sentences":50886,"speaker":405,"num_words":49944,"start":17872,"end":17904},[50887,50889],{"text":50888,"start":17872,"end":17879},"Interessant, Interessant.",{"text":50890,"start":17883,"end":17904},"Wie ging deine Reise durch Berlin weiter?",{"sentences":50892,"speaker":282,"num_words":50903,"start":17908,"end":18186},[50893,50895,50897,50899,50901],{"text":50894,"start":17908,"end":17962},"Genau, also ich war da Softwareentwickler und da hatt ich auch noch keine Beantwortung für Mitarbeiter.",{"text":50896,"start":17966,"end":18043},"Da fing's dann an, also die nächste Station, das war ein Unternehmen, das ist aus dem deutschen Forschungszentrum für künstliche Intelligenz entstanden.",{"text":50898,"start":18043,"end":18062},"Das war 'n Spin off.",{"text":50900,"start":18066,"end":18149},"Und da saßen 'n paar clevere Leute zusammen, die sich in 'nem Bereich schon, also mit AI Technologien neuronalen Netzen irgendwie beschäftigt haben.",{"text":50902,"start":18152,"end":18186},"Und die brauchen Softwareentwickler und haben das für den Bereich gemacht.",77,{"sentences":50905,"speaker":282,"num_words":50912,"start":18189,"end":18258},[50906,50908,50910],{"text":50907,"start":18189,"end":18208},"Und im gibt's auch, also Immobilienbranche.",{"text":50909,"start":18212,"end":18237},"Da gibt's auch den Begriff Asset Management Systeme.",{"text":50911,"start":18241,"end":18258},"Und da ging's darum, dass digital",20,{"sentences":50914,"speaker":405,"num_words":50241,"start":18261,"end":18282},[50915],{"text":50916,"start":18261,"end":18282},"Und da hast Du gedacht, das hab",{"sentences":50918,"speaker":854,"num_words":49864,"start":18282,"end":18295},[50919],{"text":50920,"start":18282,"end":18295},"ich schon mal gemacht.",{"sentences":50922,"speaker":282,"num_words":50593,"start":18295,"end":18509},[50923,50925,50927,50929,50931],{"text":50924,"start":18295,"end":18363},"Und dann hab ich hab ich haben wurd mir das gepitcht und ich dachte, ja, Digital Asset Management kenn ich, ja.",{"text":50926,"start":18363,"end":18397},"Und dann haben die auch gedacht, das ist das Gleiche.",{"text":50928,"start":18401,"end":18421},"Ist aber natürlich was ganz anderes, ne.",{"text":50930,"start":18424,"end":18482},"Aber trotzdem haben die gemerkt, ich hab viel Erfahrung mit PDF Dokumenten und so weiter und so fort.",{"text":50932,"start":18482,"end":18509},"Und Asset Management, da geht's oft Verträge.",{"sentences":50934,"speaker":282,"num_words":50912,"start":18513,"end":18580},[50935,50937],{"text":50936,"start":18513,"end":18554},"Und Verträge sind in PDF abgebildet, deswegen hat das schon sehr gut gepasst.",{"text":50938,"start":18557,"end":18580},"Ist aber eine andere, ist Industrie einfach.",{"sentences":50940,"speaker":854,"num_words":49869,"start":18583,"end":18591},[50941],{"text":50942,"start":18583,"end":18591},"Das ist cool.",{"sentences":50944,"speaker":282,"num_words":49869,"start":18595,"end":18605},[50945,50946,50947],{"text":1912,"start":18595,"end":18596},{"text":14742,"start":18600,"end":18601},{"text":1325,"start":18601,"end":18605},{"sentences":50949,"speaker":405,"num_words":49874,"start":18605,"end":18679},[50950,50952],{"text":50951,"start":18605,"end":18639},"das heißt, Du hattest, wann wann war das so ungefähr?",{"text":50953,"start":18639,"end":18679},"In in welchen Jahren, Jahrzehnten sind wir da jetzt grad unterwegs?",{"sentences":50955,"speaker":282,"num_words":50958,"start":18684,"end":18759},[50956],{"text":50957,"start":18684,"end":18759},"2013 bin ich nach Berlin gekommen und dann 2015 bin ich zum zu dem, also Level nicht das Unternehmen, das Spin off.",22,{"sentences":50960,"speaker":405,"num_words":50085,"start":18762,"end":18815},[50961],{"text":50962,"start":18762,"end":18815},"Okay, das war ja doch relativ früh noch im im Vergleich zu dem jetzigen AI Boom.",{"sentences":50964,"speaker":282,"num_words":50593,"start":18819,"end":19029},[50965,50966,50968,50970,50972],{"text":1912,"start":18819,"end":18820},{"text":50967,"start":18820,"end":18857},"Also wir haben uns sehr früh mit AI beschäftigt, das stimmt.",{"text":50969,"start":18861,"end":18937},"Also was was da vielleicht passiert ist und auch vielleicht die Erfahrung, die ich dann da gesammelt hab, die war, glaub ich, sehr prägend.",{"text":50971,"start":18941,"end":18988},"Weil es war 'n Start up Szenario und wir waren 'n sehr kleines Team.",{"text":50973,"start":18988,"end":19029},"Also ich war, glaub ich, der zweite oder dritte Mitarbeiter, der angestellt wurde.",{"sentences":50975,"speaker":282,"num_words":50986,"start":19029,"end":19334},[50976,50978,50980,50982,50984],{"text":50977,"start":19029,"end":19110},"Und es gab einen CTO, der Florian Kuhlmann heißt der, der war sehr gut im Bereich AI und hatte ein, 2 Researcher dabei.",{"text":50979,"start":19110,"end":19141},"Und die haben im Endeffekt sich mit beschäftigt, also.",{"text":50981,"start":19144,"end":19207},"Das ist so das, das sind so die Grundlagen im Endeffekt von von AI, kann man sagen, von neuronalen Netzen.",{"text":50983,"start":19211,"end":19259},"Und die haben das damals, also damals gab's ja noch keinen und all so was.",{"text":50985,"start":19259,"end":19334},"Sondern die haben das damals selber entwickelt, haben eigene Strukturen entwickelt, eigene entwickelt und haben dann überlegt, okay, das muss ja irgendwie skalieren.",90,{"sentences":50988,"speaker":282,"num_words":50998,"start":19334,"end":19638},[50989,50991,50993,50995,50997],{"text":50990,"start":19334,"end":19450},"Weil also der deren Idee war zu sagen, wir haben ganz viele Unternehmen, riesige Immobilienunternehmen, die haben Immobilien überall in der Welt und möchten irgendwie eine Übersicht über ihr Portfolio haben.",{"text":50992,"start":19450,"end":19495},"Und das kannst Du halt eigentlich nur rauskriegen, wenn Du diese Verträge dir anschaust.",{"text":50994,"start":19499,"end":19513},"Und das ist sehr teuer.",{"text":50996,"start":19513,"end":19634},"Das heißt, Du musst das in den Anwalt schicken und dann muss der Anwalt das durchlesen und schreibt dir dann manuell raus, wer ist der Mieter, wer Vermieter und wie viel Gold kostet das?",{"text":1912,"start":19637,"end":19638},85,{"sentences":51000,"speaker":282,"num_words":50617,"start":19638,"end":19823},[51001,51003,51005],{"text":51002,"start":19638,"end":19664},"Und das konntest Du mit dem System machen.",{"text":51004,"start":19664,"end":19814},"Das heißt, das System hat die PDF Dokumente mit OCR Technologie ausgelesen und dann, also beziehungsweise Klassifizierung am Anfang gemacht und dann, herauszufinden, okay, das ist der Name des Landlords, das ist der Name des Vermieters und so weiter und so fort.",{"text":51006,"start":19814,"end":19823},"Wie muss ich",{"sentences":51008,"speaker":405,"num_words":50534,"start":19823,"end":20043},[51009,51011,51013,51015],{"text":51010,"start":19823,"end":19921},"mir so was in der praktischen alltäglichen Zusammenarbeit vorstellen, wo Du grad sagst, na ja, Du kamst jetzt aus soner sehr pragmatischen Softwareentwicklungswelt, sag ich mal, ja.",{"text":51012,"start":19921,"end":19972},"Und jetzt arbeitet er zusammen mit Leuten, die eher ausm Researchfeld vielleicht noch kommen.",{"text":51014,"start":19976,"end":20014},"Wie was was für Unterschiede tun sich da so auf in der Zusammenarbeit?",{"text":51016,"start":20018,"end":20043},"Was muss man da vielleicht auch überbrücken mal?",{"sentences":51018,"speaker":282,"num_words":50563,"start":20047,"end":20321},[51019,51021,51023,51025,51027],{"text":51020,"start":20047,"end":20102},"Ja, also man hat schon gemerkt, dass also der Florian selber, der war eigentlich 'n ganz guter Softwareentwickler.",{"text":51022,"start":20106,"end":20141},"Der war noch besser in dem Research Thema, würd ich sagen.",{"text":51024,"start":20144,"end":20209},"Und man hat schon gemerkt, dass dass die Researcher nicht so sehr, also Designpatterns oder so kennen die nicht, ne.",{"text":51026,"start":20209,"end":20293},"Oder also Dokumentation oder Variablen gut zu benennen und solche Sachen, das war schon schwierig oder auch Tests oder so was zu schreiben.",{"text":51028,"start":20297,"end":20321},"Das heißt, da gab's dann schon irgendwie Probleme.",{"sentences":51030,"speaker":282,"num_words":51039,"start":20321,"end":20561},[51031,51033,51035,51037],{"text":51032,"start":20321,"end":20395},"Und meine Aufgabe war es, denen dabei zu helfen, dass sie eine entwickeln, die ich dann in einem Produkt skalieren kann.",{"text":51034,"start":20398,"end":20445},"Ja, also ich hab die ich hab im Endeffekt die Engine geschrieben als Webservice.",{"text":51036,"start":20449,"end":20498},"Aber das, was die gemacht haben auf Ebene, das war wirklich sehr dediziert und klein gedacht.",{"text":51038,"start":20502,"end":20561},"Und ich musste einfach sichergehen, dass die das in 'ner Form bauen, dass das dennoch skalierbar ist.",68,{"sentences":51041,"speaker":405,"num_words":50593,"start":20564,"end":20783},[51042,51043,51045,51047,51048],{"text":1912,"start":20564,"end":20565},{"text":51044,"start":20569,"end":20640},"Und wie viel in diesem Unterschied in der Zusammenarbeit war son, ich sag mal, son son Skill Gap vielleicht einfach, ja?",{"text":51046,"start":20640,"end":20702},"Weil für die einen ist halt Programmierung die Hauptaufgabe, für die anderen ist es nur Mittel zum Zweck.",{"text":1912,"start":20706,"end":20707},{"text":51049,"start":20707,"end":20783},"Und wie viel war aber auch, boah, ich ich will da jetzt niemanden beleidigen, ne, aber son Verständnis fürs Business halt auch.",{"sentences":51051,"speaker":405,"num_words":50417,"start":20786,"end":20992},[51052,51054,51056,51057],{"text":51053,"start":20786,"end":20895},"Weil ich kann mir vorstellen, wenn Du aus 'ner Research Ecke kommst, in sone Firma reinkommst, dann ist ja so, ne, am Ende profitabel sein und son Produkt auf die Straße bringen und so.",{"text":51055,"start":20895,"end":20958},"Das ja jetzt nicht so das Mindset, mit dem Du die letzten paar Jahre an der Uni wahrscheinlich unterwegs warst.",{"text":1912,"start":20958,"end":20962},{"text":51058,"start":20966,"end":20992},"Und und wie finden findet man da so zusammen?",{"sentences":51060,"speaker":282,"num_words":282,"start":20996,"end":20997},[51061],{"text":1912,"start":20996,"end":20997},{"sentences":51063,"speaker":405,"num_words":50008,"start":21001,"end":21059},[51064,51066],{"text":51065,"start":21001,"end":21049},"Oder ist das überhaupt gar kein Problem und ich unterstell hier einfach nur was, ne?",{"text":51067,"start":21049,"end":21059},"Ich weiß nicht.",{"sentences":51069,"speaker":282,"num_words":50314,"start":21059,"end":21279},[51070,51072,51074,51076,51078],{"text":51071,"start":21059,"end":21117},"Nee, also bei uns war's nicht son großes Problem, weil wir die Verantwortlichkeiten recht klar definiert hatten.",{"text":51073,"start":21117,"end":21126},"Also Okay.",{"text":51075,"start":21129,"end":21190},"Der Researcher ist gar nicht so auf die Idee gekommen, irgendwie jetzt Produkteentscheidungen treffen zu wollen oder so was.",{"text":51077,"start":21190,"end":21246},"Der war zwar einbezogen und der hat das auch mit verstanden, aber es war schon recht klar organisiert.",{"text":51079,"start":21250,"end":21279},"Und das hat der damalige CTO auch sehr gut gemacht.",{"sentences":51081,"speaker":282,"num_words":49885,"start":21279,"end":21322},[51082,51084],{"text":51083,"start":21279,"end":21318},"Also vor allem in diesem kleinen Szenario wird das ja gut organisiert.",{"text":1113,"start":21318,"end":21322},{"sentences":51086,"speaker":854,"num_words":854,"start":21325,"end":21329},[51087],{"text":51088,"start":21325,"end":21329},"Es wurd",{"sentences":51090,"speaker":282,"num_words":49841,"start":21329,"end":21408},[51091,51093,51094,51095],{"text":51092,"start":21329,"end":21379},"'n bisschen schwieriger, als es größer geworden ist, aber das ist, glaub ich, auch normal.",{"text":1113,"start":21383,"end":21384},{"text":1912,"start":21384,"end":21388},{"text":51096,"start":21388,"end":21408},"Also zumindest seh ich das immer.",{"sentences":51098,"speaker":405,"num_words":50055,"start":21411,"end":21466},[51099,51100,51101],{"text":1917,"start":21411,"end":21412},{"text":1917,"start":21416,"end":21417},{"text":51102,"start":21420,"end":21466},"Und wie lange bist Du da geblieben und warum bist Du heute nicht mehr da?",{"sentences":51104,"speaker":282,"num_words":49987,"start":21470,"end":21678},[51105,51107,51109,51111,51113],{"text":51106,"start":21470,"end":21501},"Ja, also ich ich war ich war 3 Jahre da.",{"text":51108,"start":21504,"end":21574},"Und in der Zeit bin ich, nach einem Jahr ungefähr bin ich Director of Engineering geworden, weil wir sind recht stark gewachsen.",{"text":51110,"start":21578,"end":21605},"Ich hab diese entwickelt, die war recht hoch skalierbar.",{"text":51112,"start":21609,"end":21658},"Da fing das auch immer mehr an, in AWS, also in die Cloud zu ziehen.",{"text":51114,"start":21662,"end":21678},"Und wir hatten internationale Kunden.",{"sentences":51116,"speaker":282,"num_words":50430,"start":21678,"end":21924},[51117,51119,51121,51123,51125],{"text":51118,"start":21678,"end":21716},"Es gab 'n Office in London, 1 in New York.",{"text":51120,"start":21720,"end":21747},"Und meine Aufgaben haben sich sehr stark dann verändert.",{"text":51122,"start":21747,"end":21816},"Also ich war dann irgendwann nicht mehr dafür verantwortlich, die Engine zu entwickeln, sondern meine Aufgabe war irgendwie, 30 Mitarbeiter zu führen.",{"text":51124,"start":21819,"end":21876},"Und da bin ich 'n bisschen ins kalte Wasser gesprungen, hab auch bestimmt viele Sachen falsch gemacht.",{"text":51126,"start":21879,"end":21924},"Aber auf die Frage noch mal zu antworten, also 3 Jahre bin ich geblieben.",{"sentences":51128,"speaker":282,"num_words":50066,"start":21928,"end":22131},[51129,51131,51133,51135,51137],{"text":51130,"start":21928,"end":21969},"Das Unternehmen wurd, ich glaub, 2019, glaub ich, verkauft in die USA.",{"text":51132,"start":21973,"end":21988},"Und ich bin 2018 rausgegangen.",{"text":51134,"start":21992,"end":22030},"Und zwar war es so, dass es sich schon sehr stark verändert hatte.",{"text":51136,"start":22030,"end":22057},"Also kulturell war das sehr, sehr anders geworden.",{"text":51138,"start":22060,"end":22131},"Und es gab 'n gewissen Druck von Investoren auch, wo ich dann auch irgendwann gemerkt hab, okay, ich komm hier nicht weiter.",{"sentences":51140,"speaker":282,"num_words":50055,"start":22134,"end":22188},[51141],{"text":51142,"start":22134,"end":22188},"Und ja, das war eigentlich der Hauptgrund, dass ich gemerkt hab, okay, man kommt hier nicht weiter.",{"sentences":51144,"speaker":405,"num_words":51149,"start":22191,"end":22333},[51145,51147],{"text":51146,"start":22191,"end":22284},"Aber trotzdem hat sich ja da schon für dich gezeigt, zumindest impliziert das dein Lebenslauf ja so, dass so dieses dieses Leadershipp Thema schon was ist, was dich interessiert.",{"text":51148,"start":22288,"end":22333},"Also vielleicht war die Umgebung nicht mehr die richtige, aber die die Rolle ja irgendwie schon.",45,{"sentences":51151,"speaker":282,"num_words":863,"start":22336,"end":22448},[51152,51153,51155,51157,51159],{"text":1912,"start":22336,"end":22337},{"text":51154,"start":22341,"end":22345},"Ja, schon.",{"text":51156,"start":22345,"end":22375},"Aber das das hatt ich sogar schon während der Ausbildung.",{"text":51158,"start":22375,"end":22424},"Also meine damaligen Chefs, die haben sich damals schon immer irgendwie so mit unterschiedlichen Sachen beschäftigt.",{"text":51160,"start":22424,"end":22448},"Und das hab ich auch von denen gelernt.",{"sentences":51162,"speaker":282,"num_words":51173,"start":22448,"end":22701},[51163,51165,51167,51169,51171],{"text":51164,"start":22448,"end":22524},"Also nicht nur irgendwie sich mit den technischen Sachen zu beschäftigen, sondern auch zu schauen, wie Organisationen funktionieren, wie kann man gut zusammenarbeiten?",{"text":51166,"start":22528,"end":22549},"Auch so Managementmethoden und solche Sachen.",{"text":51168,"start":22552,"end":22592},"Das hatt ich schon recht früh und auch 'n recht frühes Interesse daran.",{"text":51170,"start":22596,"end":22632},"Ich konnt's und deswegen hab ich ja auch Management studiert im Endeffekt.",{"text":51172,"start":22635,"end":22701},"Ich konnt's halt nie so richtig einsetzen und da war's so die erste Zeit, wo ich's dann auch für dich einsetzen konnte.",76,{"sentences":51175,"speaker":854,"num_words":854,"start":22705,"end":22711},[51176,51177],{"text":1113,"start":22705,"end":22706},{"text":1113,"start":22710,"end":22711},{"sentences":51179,"speaker":405,"num_words":49841,"start":22714,"end":22785},[51180],{"text":51181,"start":22714,"end":22785},"Und wenn Du dann gesagt hast, okay, die Umgebung hat nicht mehr gepasst, wie hast Du die nächste richtige Umgebung für dich gefunden?",{"sentences":51183,"speaker":282,"num_words":51194,"start":22789,"end":23150},[51184,51186,51188,51190,51192],{"text":51185,"start":22789,"end":22799},"Ja, durch Ausprobieren.",{"text":51187,"start":22803,"end":23012},"Also, weil weil es war jetzt nicht so, dass ich dann gesagt hab, okay, jetzt weiß ich genau, was ich machen will, sondern es gab dann, ich hatte mehrere Stationen dann, wo ich dann CTO war für ungefähr ein Jahr und dann schauen musste, wie ich das wie ich das hinbekomme in 'ner anderen Unternehmen, ob das ähnlich ist, ob die meine Skills auch benötigen.",{"text":51189,"start":23016,"end":23049},"Und das hat sich oft herausgestellt, dass das was anderes ist.",{"text":51191,"start":23049,"end":23129},"Weil wenn Du wenn Du beispielsweise als Softwareentwickler in die Rolle von der Führungskraft reinwächst, dann ist das 'n irgendwie 'n natürlicher Prozess.",{"text":51193,"start":23129,"end":23150},"Alle akzeptieren das, alle sehen das.",108,{"sentences":51196,"speaker":282,"num_words":51194,"start":23154,"end":23503},[51197,51199,51201,51203,51205],{"text":51198,"start":23154,"end":23232},"Wenn Du überhaupt von außen jetzt reinkommst und da gibt's schon irgendwie 10 Mitarbeiter, dann denken die sich, ah, okay, wer ist er denn jetzt, ne.",{"text":51200,"start":23232,"end":23324},"Also das ist dann son bisschen eigenartig, da jetzt auch wenn man eine neue Person ist, die jetzt auch wenn man irgendwie vielleicht den Ton angeben soll.",{"text":51202,"start":23328,"end":23397},"Und wenn Du dann so der Typ bist, der dann sagt, okay, jetzt machen wir alles anders, dann funktioniert das halt nicht lange.",{"text":51204,"start":23401,"end":23432},"Das hab ich nicht jetzt gemacht in dem Fall, ne.",{"text":51206,"start":23432,"end":23503},"Aber ich hab schon gemerkt, dass das nicht so richtig das ist, was ich mir wünsche, weil ich nicht frei entscheiden konnte.",{"sentences":51208,"speaker":282,"num_words":51219,"start":23503,"end":23859},[51209,51211,51213,51215,51217],{"text":51210,"start":23503,"end":23594},"Also das, was ich zum Beispiel in meiner ersten Zeit als in der Ausbildung und auch in dem ersten Start-up, wo ich gearbeitet hab, ich hatte recht viele Freiheiten.",{"text":51212,"start":23594,"end":23636},"Ich konnte frei entscheiden, das ist das, was ich immer mir gewöhnt hab.",{"text":51214,"start":23639,"end":23699},"Und in den anderen Unternehmen war's dann immer so, Du warst dann der Dienstleister IT und musst Du liefern.",{"text":51216,"start":23703,"end":23790},"Und Du warst auch irgendwie nicht die Person, die irgendwie mit einbezogen wurde in die Businessentscheidung, sondern es hieß, ja, ja, mach das mal jetzt im Endeffekt.",{"text":51218,"start":23790,"end":23859},"Und das hat mir halt irgendwann hab ich gemerkt, okay, das ist nicht das, was ich mir, wie ich mir das vorstelle.",110,{"sentences":51221,"speaker":854,"num_words":51230,"start":23863,"end":24038},[51222,51224,51226,51228],{"text":51223,"start":23863,"end":23891},"Wie bist Du an die unterschiedlichen Jobs damals gekommen?",{"text":51225,"start":23891,"end":23939},"Also waren, hast Du dich da irgendwie, hast Du, waren das immer Bekanntschaften, Freunde?",{"text":51227,"start":23943,"end":23999},"War das einfach irgendwie Bewerbungen oder war das 'n Netzwerk, wo Du dann drin warst oder so was?",{"text":51229,"start":23999,"end":24038},"Waren so, wie konntest Du verschiedene Rollen als als CTO ausprobieren?",52,{"sentences":51232,"speaker":282,"num_words":51243,"start":24042,"end":24319},[51233,51235,51237,51239,51241],{"text":51234,"start":24042,"end":24049},"Das waren immer.",{"text":51236,"start":24052,"end":24158},"Also es es gibt, glaub ich, keinen, der irgendjemanden aufs Ziel Level reinlässt, ohne dass man irgendwie die Person schon son bisschen kennt oder irgendwie Also hab ich zumindest sehr selten gesehen.",{"text":51238,"start":24162,"end":24189},"Bei mir war alles die Opposition, die ich hatte.",{"text":51240,"start":24189,"end":24276},"Das war, vorher gab's da 'n Mitarbeiter, der vorher mit mir zusammengearbeitet hat und der wusste, wie ich die Organisationsstruktur in 'nem anderen Unternehmen aufgebaut hab.",{"text":51242,"start":24279,"end":24319},"Und der gesagt hat, okay, Paymann hat das sehr gut in dem Team gemacht.",84,{"sentences":51245,"speaker":282,"num_words":51254,"start":24322,"end":24457},[51246,51248,51250,51252,51253],{"text":51247,"start":24322,"end":24338},"Der kann das bei uns machen.",{"text":51249,"start":24338,"end":24356},"Wir sind, haben die gleiche Challenge.",{"text":51251,"start":24360,"end":24447},"Wir sind jetzt auch irgendwie 30 Mitarbeiter, wir müssen auf 50 an wachsen in den nächsten ein, 2 Jahren und dann haben die mich dazu geholt.",{"text":1113,"start":24451,"end":24452},{"text":489,"start":24456,"end":24457},40,{"sentences":51256,"speaker":405,"num_words":50122,"start":24457,"end":24544},[51257],{"text":51258,"start":24457,"end":24544},"überleg grad, ich hab das, glaub ich, auch noch nie anders erlebt auf dem Level, dass so wirklich, weiß ich nicht, ob der Bewerbungsprozess oder?",{"sentences":51260,"speaker":854,"num_words":50480,"start":24547,"end":24683},[51261],{"text":51262,"start":24547,"end":24683},"Ja, es gibt ja schon, also das, was schon da hier und da, was wir auch, glaub ich, hier schon mal im Podcast hatten, dass es halt explizite Recruiter gibt, ne, die schon auch auf der Ebene das nur machen und da ein",{"sentences":51264,"speaker":282,"num_words":49864,"start":24686,"end":24697},[51265],{"text":51266,"start":24686,"end":24697},"Aber das ist ja",{"sentences":51268,"speaker":405,"num_words":50485,"start":24697,"end":24739},[51269],{"text":51270,"start":24697,"end":24739},"zumindest sone Proxyempfehlung, weil dann hörst Du ja zumindest auf deinen Recruiter.",{"sentences":51272,"speaker":854,"num_words":50055,"start":24743,"end":24800},[51273,51274,51276,51277],{"text":1912,"start":24743,"end":24744},{"text":51275,"start":24748,"end":24753},"So, ne.",{"text":24760,"start":24756,"end":24757},{"text":51278,"start":24757,"end":24800},"Also ja, dass sie einfach ausgeschrieben ist, ist, glaub ich, nicht so häufig.",{"sentences":51280,"speaker":282,"num_words":49944,"start":24804,"end":24833},[51281,51283],{"text":51282,"start":24804,"end":24827},"Ich glaub, im öffentlichen Dienst geht das.",{"text":51284,"start":24827,"end":24833},"Also da",{"sentences":51286,"speaker":405,"num_words":49996,"start":24836,"end":24996},[51287,51289,51291,51293],{"text":51288,"start":24836,"end":24847},"Da musst Du's ja.",{"text":51290,"start":24847,"end":24884},"Also da, die sind ja dazu verpflichtet, das das zu machen.",{"text":51292,"start":24887,"end":24951},"Aber so, selbst wenn es jetzt jemand war, der nicht schon mit Ziel Level Erfahrung gekommen ist, dann war's meistens so.",{"text":51294,"start":24951,"end":24996},"Ich hab mit dem mal in 'ner vorherigen Rolle zusammengearbeitet, als wir beide noch,",{"sentences":51296,"speaker":282,"num_words":282,"start":24999,"end":25000},[51297],{"text":1113,"start":24999,"end":25000},{"sentences":51299,"speaker":405,"num_words":50050,"start":25004,"end":25115},[51300,51302,51304,51305],{"text":51301,"start":25004,"end":25045},"Ne, weiß nicht, auf 'nem Senior- oder Head of irgendwas Level waren.",{"text":51303,"start":25049,"end":25107},"Jetzt mach ich hier meine Firma und hätt ihn gerne als mein CTO, CFO, was auch immer so.",{"text":1912,"start":25110,"end":25111},{"text":1912,"start":25114,"end":25115},{"sentences":51307,"speaker":282,"num_words":50563,"start":25118,"end":25383},[51308,51310,51312,51314,51316],{"text":51309,"start":25118,"end":25144},"Ich kann das auch verstehen, warum das so ist.",{"text":51311,"start":25144,"end":25185},"Also man braucht ja viel Vertrauen, jemanden auf dem Labor reinzulassen.",{"text":51313,"start":25189,"end":25211},"Deswegen gehen die Gespräche auch so lange.",{"text":51315,"start":25214,"end":25288},"Also wenn ich jetzt, ich ich stell ja selber auch teilweise, wenn ich in Unternehmen zurzeit reingeh, CTOs ein, die mich dann replacen.",{"text":51317,"start":25292,"end":25383},"Aber auch damals war's halt immer so, die dauern 3 bis 6 Monate manchmal die Gespräche, weil man sich will sich ja schon irgendwie sicher sein, dass das gut funktioniert.",{"sentences":51319,"speaker":282,"num_words":49869,"start":25386,"end":25396},[51320,51321],{"text":1912,"start":25386,"end":25387},{"text":51322,"start":25390,"end":25396},"Dann dann,",{"sentences":51324,"speaker":854,"num_words":50570,"start":25396,"end":25493},[51325,51327],{"text":51326,"start":25396,"end":25448},"ich glaub, das haben wir am Anfang ja eigentlich gesagt, das sagen wir sonst am Anfang zumindest.",{"text":51328,"start":25448,"end":25493},"Geh mal 'n kurzen Hinweis darauf, was machst Du denn eigentlich heute?",{"sentences":51330,"speaker":282,"num_words":50241,"start":25497,"end":25519},[51331,51332],{"text":1912,"start":25497,"end":25498},{"text":51333,"start":25502,"end":25519},"Was ich heute mache so hab",{"sentences":51335,"speaker":405,"num_words":50050,"start":25519,"end":25629},[51336,51338,51340],{"text":51337,"start":25519,"end":25532},"ich auch grad gesagt.",{"text":51339,"start":25535,"end":25548},"Muss ich noch ranschneiden.",{"text":51341,"start":25548,"end":25629},"Was ist die Belohnung für alle Hörerinnen, die jetzt für 10 Minuten dabei geblieben sind, ohne zu wissen, auf was sie sich eingelassen haben?",{"sentences":51343,"speaker":282,"num_words":51354,"start":25633,"end":26022},[51344,51346,51348,51350,51352],{"text":51345,"start":25633,"end":25798},"Ja, also dadurch, dass ich dass ich bei bei dem ersten Start-up so diese Erfahrungen gemacht hab, wie man selber in die Rolle reinwächst und was für organisatorische Wachstumsschmerzen man so hat, haben mich danach eigentlich immer wieder einzelne Start up Freunde gefragt, okay, hast Du 'n Tipp für uns?",{"text":51347,"start":25802,"end":25854},"Und denen hab ich das am Anfang für mich umsonst irgendwie erzählt, wie ich das gemacht hab.",{"text":51349,"start":25856,"end":25890},"Und irgendwann kamen Leute auf mich zu, die kannte ich nicht.",{"text":51351,"start":25890,"end":25929},"Und dann dacht ich mir, okay, da kann ich auch Geld für verlangen.",{"text":51353,"start":25933,"end":26022},"Und dann hat sich das son bisschen so natürlich entwickelt, dass ich immer mehr in sone Richtung Beratung, Coaching, Interim, CTO Rollen so in die Richtung entwickelt hab.",119,{"sentences":51356,"speaker":282,"num_words":258,"start":26022,"end":26047},[51357],{"text":51358,"start":26022,"end":26047},"Und das mach ich jetzt seit 5 Jahren.",{"sentences":51360,"speaker":405,"num_words":51371,"start":26051,"end":26238},[51361,51363,51365,51367,51369],{"text":51362,"start":26051,"end":26121},"Dann ist ja gut, dass wir vorher schon mal gesprochen hatten und wir uns quasi kannten, bevor wir diesen Podcast angefangen haben.",{"text":51364,"start":26121,"end":26148},"Sonst müssten wir jetzt auch noch zahlen hier.",{"text":51366,"start":26152,"end":26186},"Wie wie muss ich mir das vorstellen, Coaching auf soner Ebene?",{"text":51368,"start":26190,"end":26223},"Von von wem geht da der der Erstkontakt irgendwie aus?",{"text":51370,"start":26223,"end":26238},"Also wer sucht dich?",55,{"sentences":51373,"speaker":282,"num_words":49934,"start":26241,"end":26440},[51374,51375,51377,51379,51381],{"text":1912,"start":26241,"end":26242},{"text":51376,"start":26245,"end":26262},"Ich mach's mal an einem Beispiel.",{"text":51378,"start":26262,"end":26315},"Ich war, es gab 'n Start-up in Berlin, das wurd von, also ist ja öffentlich auch.",{"text":51380,"start":26315,"end":26406},"Die heißen oder hießen Data, auch Immobiliensektor, weil das so, wenn Du einmal im Immobiliensektor erfolgreich warst, kommen alle aus dem gleichen Bereich und wollen auch.",{"text":51382,"start":26409,"end":26440},"Und die wurden von Moody's in den USA eingekauft.",{"sentences":51384,"speaker":282,"num_words":49829,"start":26440,"end":26706},[51385,51386,51388,51390,51392],{"text":1113,"start":26440,"end":26444},{"text":51387,"start":26444,"end":26457},"Also sie haben gekauft.",{"text":51389,"start":26461,"end":26552},"Und da ging's darum, sich Einzelgliedern und in das IT System von denen Und die hatten sehr guten, also das Start-up hat einen sehr guten VP of Engineering.",{"text":51391,"start":26557,"end":26670},"Und der war aber sehr techgy, also der war sehr tief in der Programmierung noch drin und hat eigentlich Vorsicht die gehabt, die ich jetzt in der Vergangenheit hatte, mehr in diese organisatorische Rolle reinzuwachsen.",{"text":51393,"start":26674,"end":26706},"Und der musste irgendwann mit dem CEO von Moody sprechen.",{"sentences":51395,"speaker":282,"num_words":50550,"start":26710,"end":26947},[51396,51398,51400,51402,51404],{"text":51397,"start":26710,"end":26779},"Und die anderen, also die die Partner von dem Start-up, die dachten, okay, wir brauchen halt irgendjemanden, der ihn darauf vorbereitet.",{"text":51399,"start":26783,"end":26813},"Und dann haben wir so ein, 2 Jahre 'n Coaching gemacht.",{"text":51401,"start":26813,"end":26855},"Das heißt, wir haben uns alle ein, 2 Wochen getroffen, Sessions gemacht.",{"text":51403,"start":26855,"end":26898},"Ich hab Workshops mit ihm gegeben, ihm akut bei gewissen Sachen einfach zu helfen.",{"text":51405,"start":26902,"end":26947},"Aber ihm auch selber sone Perspektive zu geben, in welche Richtung er sich entwickeln könnte.",{"sentences":51407,"speaker":282,"num_words":50593,"start":26951,"end":27157},[51408,51410,51412,51413],{"text":51409,"start":26951,"end":27063},"Und das waren oft so technische Sachen, aber meistens sind's auch irgendwie ganz normale Sachen, die man so im Umgang mit Mitarbeitern und so was auch irgendwie, also Probleme da zu besprechen und solche Sachen.",{"text":51411,"start":27066,"end":27149},"Und das hat, also mir hat das viel Spaß gemacht und er ist irgendwann dann, wenn ich mich richtig erinnere, hätte auf geworden dann irgendwo dies.",{"text":1113,"start":27149,"end":27153},{"text":1113,"start":27156,"end":27157},{"sentences":51415,"speaker":405,"num_words":51425,"start":27161,"end":27563},[51416,51417,51419,51421,51423],{"text":730,"start":27161,"end":27162},{"text":51418,"start":27162,"end":27277},"Warum ich frag, ist, weil ich mir so Consulting auf auf C-Level Ebene schwierig vorstelle, weil grade in kleineren oder jüngeren Firmen natürlich so das sehr an einzelnen Personen hängt, ja.",{"text":51420,"start":27277,"end":27344},"Die die ganze Firma, der der Erfolg, das Vertrauen in die Firmaeien, auch von den Mitarbeitern und so was, ja.",{"text":51422,"start":27347,"end":27435},"Und dann ja natürlich sie sich Hilfesuchen, ganz schnell falsch gelesen werden kann als Hilfe brauchen, überfordert sein, nicht mehr weiterkommen und so weiter, ja.",{"text":51424,"start":27435,"end":27563},"Und da stell ich mir schon vor, dass es da sone gewisse Hemmschwelle gibt, son Angebot dann irgendwie zu suchen, in Anspruch zu nehmen und so weiter, weil ja Reputation da schon irgendwie kritisch ist in soner Phase.",115,{"sentences":51427,"speaker":282,"num_words":50404,"start":27567,"end":27715},[51428,51430,51432,51434],{"text":51429,"start":27567,"end":27579},"Ja, das stimmt völlig.",{"text":51431,"start":27583,"end":27632},"Also in dem Fall war's einigermaßen, also da da war das Problem gar nicht so groß.",{"text":51433,"start":27632,"end":27655},"Weil das Management hat hat das initiiert.",{"text":51435,"start":27659,"end":27715},"Und da hätte der VP schon das Gefühl haben können, okay, die vertrauen mir nicht, dass ich das hinbekomme.",{"sentences":51437,"speaker":405,"num_words":49864,"start":27719,"end":27731},[51438],{"text":51439,"start":27719,"end":27731},"Ja, zum Beispiel, ne.",{"sentences":51441,"speaker":282,"num_words":50122,"start":27731,"end":27815},[51442,51444],{"text":51443,"start":27731,"end":27798},"Aber er hatte er hatte selber, glaub ich, interne Gespräche mit denen vorher und hat sich das, glaub ich, auch gewünscht.",{"text":51445,"start":27802,"end":27815},"Also er war waren",{"sentences":51447,"speaker":405,"num_words":50021,"start":27815,"end":27850},[51448],{"text":51449,"start":27815,"end":27850},"die ja auch in trockenen Tüchern nach soner Übernahme, ja.",{"sentences":51451,"speaker":282,"num_words":854,"start":27850,"end":27857},[51452],{"text":51453,"start":27850,"end":27857},"Aber wenn",{"sentences":51455,"speaker":405,"num_words":51460,"start":27857,"end":27959},[51456,51458],{"text":51457,"start":27857,"end":27917},"wir jetzt auf soner freien Marktsituation unterwegs sind, dann ist das vielleicht auch noch mal was anderes, oder?",{"text":51459,"start":27917,"end":27959},"Ich mein, weiß nicht, wie wie kommst Du sonst zu deinen anderen Klienten?",31,{"sentences":51462,"speaker":282,"num_words":49944,"start":27963,"end":27991},[51463],{"text":51464,"start":27963,"end":27991},"Also das Coachingszenario, das mach ich nicht so oft.",{"sentences":51466,"speaker":405,"num_words":282,"start":27994,"end":27995},[51467],{"text":1917,"start":27994,"end":27995},{"sentences":51469,"speaker":282,"num_words":50378,"start":27995,"end":28224},[51470,51472,51474,51476,51478],{"text":51471,"start":27995,"end":28048},"Meistens meistens, also am liebsten mach ich wirklich Beratung als Externer, so als Sprengtspartner.",{"text":51473,"start":28052,"end":28114},"Aber das, was am, was schon häufig vorkommt, ist so internen CTO Rollen und das sind halt Feuerwehrmann Situationen.",{"text":51475,"start":28119,"end":28169},"Das heißt, es brennt wirklich grade, der jetzige CTO ist aus einem Grund nicht mehr da.",{"text":51477,"start":28172,"end":28206},"Oder man weiß, dass er kurz, dass dass er wegfallen wird.",{"text":51479,"start":28209,"end":28224},"Manchmal auch Elternzeit einfach nur.",{"sentences":51481,"speaker":282,"num_words":50563,"start":28228,"end":28488},[51482,51484,51486,51488,51490],{"text":51483,"start":28228,"end":28272},"Aber da musst Du dann wirklich reinspringen und tiefer auch mit dem Unternehmen arbeiten.",{"text":51485,"start":28275,"end":28363},"Und die Szenarien, da gibt's eigentlich dann, weil der ehemalige C-Dur ist ja dann nicht mehr da, deswegen hast Du das Problem in dem Fall nicht so.",{"text":51487,"start":28363,"end":28430},"Da hast Du eher das Problem, das bestehende Team davon zu überzeugen, dass Du eine gute Wahl bist für diese Zeit.",{"text":51489,"start":28432,"end":28466},"Und in dem Szenario such ich dann auch oft zukünftige CTOs.",{"text":51491,"start":28470,"end":28488},"Also ich mach das auch mit Recruiter.",{"sentences":51493,"speaker":282,"num_words":49885,"start":28488,"end":28530},[51494],{"text":51495,"start":28488,"end":28530},"Ich mach das nicht komplett selber, aber dass so das Szenario dann oft.",{"sentences":51497,"speaker":405,"num_words":51508,"start":28533,"end":28809},[51498,51500,51502,51504,51506],{"text":51499,"start":28533,"end":28542},"Wie ist das?",{"text":51501,"start":28545,"end":28626},"Wie wie muss ich mir das vorstellen, wenn Du irgendwo reinkommst und schon mit soner begrenzten Verweildauer ja quasi das von vornherein klar ist, ja?",{"text":51503,"start":28626,"end":28655},"Wie schafft man das dann trotzdem, da Vertrauen aufzubauen?",{"text":51505,"start":28659,"end":28792},"Weil ja natürlich der zynische Betrachter sagen kann so, ja, der der der Perman, der kommt ja an und der erzählt mir irgendwas, aber in 18 Monaten ist er wieder weg und der kann ja gar kein langfristiges intrinsisches Interesse haben.",{"text":51507,"start":28792,"end":28809},"Verstehst Du, was ich mein?",83,{"sentences":51510,"speaker":282,"num_words":50352,"start":28809,"end":29046},[51511,51512,51514,51516,51518],{"text":1912,"start":28809,"end":28813},{"text":51513,"start":28817,"end":28931},"Also ich ich geh rein in die Sachen und versuch jeden eigentlich klar zu machen, dass für jeden, was da drin ist, wenn wir das jetzt zusammen zusammen jetzt einfach stemmen für die nächsten 6 Monate beispielsweise.",{"text":51515,"start":28935,"end":28980},"Und es gibt auch schon so gewisse Ziele, auf die irgendwie erreicht werden sollen.",{"text":51517,"start":28980,"end":29017},"Die sind im Start up Bereich oft verändern die sich auch.",{"text":51519,"start":29020,"end":29046},"Aber eigentlich will man ja immer Verbesserungen erzielen.",{"sentences":51521,"speaker":282,"num_words":51532,"start":29050,"end":29345},[51522,51524,51526,51528,51530],{"text":51523,"start":29050,"end":29113},"Und ich erarbeite das meistens mit den, also eigentlich immer mit den Teams zusammen, weil anders geht das gar nicht.",{"text":51525,"start":29113,"end":29139},"Du kannst das nicht top down irgendwie entscheiden.",{"text":51527,"start":29139,"end":29188},"Vor allem, wenn Du externer bist und gar nicht so tief in der Materie bist.",{"text":51529,"start":29188,"end":29236},"Du brauchst ja die Expertise von den Leuten, die irgendwie schon 4, 5 Jahre dran arbeiten.",{"text":51531,"start":29239,"end":29345},"Das heißt, ich mach oft so am Anfang ja, so Art Workshop, wo alle zusammenkommen und Also ich hab das früher immer so genannt, was würdest Du machen, wenn Du der CTO bist?",92,{"sentences":51534,"speaker":282,"num_words":50213,"start":29349,"end":29586},[51535,51537],{"text":51536,"start":29349,"end":29407},"Und jeder kommt halt mit den Ideen die Ecke, was man sich vorstellt, was man gern machen würde.",{"text":51538,"start":29411,"end":29586},"Und dadurch schafft man eigentlich recht offen zu sehen, okay, was denken die einzelnen Leute, was für Probleme, was ich vielleicht aufn ersten Blick auch nicht gesehen hätte, dann irgendwie gemeinsam eine Strategie und eine Roadmap aufzustellen für die nächsten 6 Monate, was realistisch ist und dann deren Commitment auch zu haben.",{"sentences":51540,"speaker":854,"num_words":51551,"start":29589,"end":30070},[51541,51543,51545,51547,51549],{"text":51542,"start":29589,"end":29708},"Wie fix hängst Du so an einem Modell oder an 1 Art von Unternehmensstruktur, Führung, wie Dev Teams aufgebaut sind und und hältst das so für das Richtige oder wie flexibel muss man sein?",{"text":51544,"start":29708,"end":29788},"Weil ich stell mir so vor, ne, Du hast irgendwie Erfahrung, Du hast verschiedene Jahre irgendwie deinen deinen deinen Lebenslauf, den wir jetzt gehört haben, gehabt.",{"text":51546,"start":29791,"end":29836},"Und also bei mir ist es vielleicht anders, ich hab nicht besonders viel gesehen.",{"text":51548,"start":29836,"end":30012},"Ich bin jetzt seit 15 Jahren beim gleichen Unternehmen und ne und trotzdem, also haben sich ja Dinge etabliert und ich würde auch sagen, bei uns viele Dinge, die sehr gut gelaufen sind und das ist ja dann irgendwie 'n Modell, was man im Kopf hat, wo man sagt so, ne, das ist 1, was funktioniert.",{"text":51550,"start":30015,"end":30070},"Und das würde gerne man irgendwie so auf dann andere stülpen und sagen, damit muss es ja auch funktionieren.",149,{"sentences":51553,"speaker":854,"num_words":50737,"start":30074,"end":30265},[51554,51556,51558],{"text":51555,"start":30074,"end":30127},"Also ist es praktisch, hast Du so ein ein Set an funktionierenden, für dich funktionierendem System?",{"text":51557,"start":30127,"end":30184},"Sagst Du sagst, okay, in dieser Größe mit den Herausforderungen so, das sind die Lösungen dafür?",{"text":51559,"start":30188,"end":30265},"Oder ist es eher, dass Du sagst, na ja, wichtiger ist es, da anzufangen, wo das Unternehmen ist und darauf basierend oder das weiterzutragen?",{"sentences":51561,"speaker":282,"num_words":50078,"start":30269,"end":30349},[51562,51563,51564,51566,51568],{"text":1912,"start":30269,"end":30270},{"text":1912,"start":30270,"end":30274},{"text":51565,"start":30277,"end":30282},"Also beides.",{"text":51567,"start":30282,"end":30324},"Ich hab natürlich 'n gewisses Set an Methoden, die man nutzen kann.",{"text":51569,"start":30324,"end":30349},"Also ihr kennt das ja alles selber wahrscheinlich.",{"sentences":51571,"speaker":282,"num_words":51582,"start":30353,"end":30683},[51572,51574,51576,51578,51580],{"text":51573,"start":30353,"end":30405},"Das Spotify File Modell mit und so was, Scrum, Kanban Methoden und so was.",{"text":51575,"start":30408,"end":30481},"Das kann man alles nutzen, aber final kommt's im Endeffekt drauf an, ob das Team das auch umsetzen möchte und da daran glaubt.",{"text":51577,"start":30485,"end":30570},"Weil dass das alle, also Du kannst die beste Methode aufsetzen, wenn das Team keine Lust hat, da so zu arbeiten, dann passiert das nicht.",{"text":51579,"start":30573,"end":30631},"Deswegen versuch ich oft, auch Sachen zu kombinieren und das in Format aufzustellen, sodass das Team das selber erarbeitet.",{"text":51581,"start":30635,"end":30683},"Ich glaub, das ist auch der Grund, warum niemand so strikt nach Scrum beispielsweise arbeitet.",96,{"sentences":51584,"speaker":282,"num_words":51254,"start":30687,"end":30821},[51585,51587],{"text":51586,"start":30687,"end":30777},"Das ist halt einfach, es gibt einfach gewisse Bedürfnisse, die in Teams da sind, wo man sich nicht so strikt an so gewisse Modelle einfach halten kann.",{"text":51588,"start":30780,"end":30821},"Und ich versuch, das sehr individuell zu machen, jedem den Fragen zu geben.",{"sentences":51590,"speaker":854,"num_words":50998,"start":30825,"end":31122},[51591,51593,51595],{"text":51592,"start":30825,"end":30848},"Und greifst Du typischerweise eine Seite?",{"text":51594,"start":30848,"end":30974},"Also bist Du eher auf der Seite der Entwickler*innen und sagst so, okay, ne, ich gucke nach dem und versuche das von mir aus auch auf auf Sea Ebene irgendwie durchzudrücken oder die die Perspektive zu teilen?",{"text":51596,"start":30978,"end":31122},"Oder sagst Du, nee, Unternehmen oder Unternehmenskultur ist so stark auch geprägt von, ja, den Gründern oder den der der den Ziel Levelpositionen, da sich auch eher darauf hören muss, was dort gewünscht ist, wie sich das, wie wir es strukturieren wollen?",{"sentences":51598,"speaker":282,"num_words":50498,"start":31126,"end":31387},[51599,51601,51603,51605,51607],{"text":51600,"start":31126,"end":31170},"Also ich glaub, sich auf eine Seite zu stellen, ist meistens eigentlich der falsche Weg.",{"text":51602,"start":31170,"end":31220},"Weil wenn man das macht, ist ja die andere Seite im Endeffekt dann stark benachteiligt.",{"text":51604,"start":31220,"end":31286},"Deswegen versuch ich eigentlich immer, sich über die Brücke zu schlagen und die Kommunikation zwischen diesen Bereichen auch zu machen.",{"text":51606,"start":31286,"end":31337},"Das ist nicht nur unbedingt Business und Technologie, sondern auch oft auch schon Produkt- und Technologieentwicklung.",{"text":51608,"start":31341,"end":31387},"Im besten Fall geht das Hand in Hand, aber das ist oft nicht der Fall.",{"sentences":51610,"speaker":282,"num_words":51039,"start":31387,"end":31614},[51611,51613,51615],{"text":51612,"start":31387,"end":31436},"Da gibt's manchmal einfach unterschiedliche Abteilungen, die das komplett machen und ist gar so integriert.",{"text":51614,"start":31440,"end":31481},"Und das heißt, ich versuch das eigentlich immer auf beiden Seiten zu vermitteln.",{"text":51616,"start":31481,"end":31614},"Und man schafft das ganz gut, wenn man die Business Goals daran anknüpft und das erklärt den den Leuten, die in der IT arbeiten, damit klarer wird, wofür die eigentlich arbeiten und warum man gewisse Sachen einfach versucht zu erzählen.",{"sentences":51618,"speaker":405,"num_words":49829,"start":31618,"end":31886},[51619,51621,51623,51625,51627],{"text":51620,"start":31618,"end":31658},"Du hast so grad 'n wichtigen Punkt angesprochen mit dem Brücken bauen.",{"text":51622,"start":31662,"end":31735},"Und Du bist ja, wenn Du quasi extern in son Unternehmen reinkommst, immer erst mal in der Position, dich einarbeiten zu müssen.",{"text":51624,"start":31739,"end":31823},"So, das eine natürlich technisch und in in das Produkt und da können wir bestimmt auch gleich noch mal drüber sprechen, was da so Strategien sind.",{"text":51626,"start":31826,"end":31842},"Das andere ist ja aber menschlich.",{"text":51628,"start":31846,"end":31886},"Also ich war nur einmal in meinem Leben in soner WPCTO Rolle.",{"sentences":51630,"speaker":405,"num_words":50430,"start":31890,"end":32122},[51631,51633,51635,51637,51639],{"text":51632,"start":31890,"end":31940},"Und ich muss sagen, ich hab da massiv von profitierter Zeit mit dem Unternehmen mitgewachsen bin.",{"text":51634,"start":31943,"end":32010},"Du kennst die die die Mitgründer, Du kennst die die Leute, die irgendwie die anderen Teams auch leiten und so was alles.",{"text":51636,"start":32010,"end":32064},"Und das ist ja, also hat bei mir zumindest maßgeblich dafür den Erfolg zu beigetragen, ja.",{"text":51638,"start":32064,"end":32118},"Jetzt kommt man ja extern in son Unternehmen rein und hat genau diese Beziehung ja eben nicht.",{"text":1113,"start":32121,"end":32122},{"sentences":51641,"speaker":405,"num_words":50745,"start":32122,"end":32208},[51642],{"text":51643,"start":32122,"end":32208},"So, wie wie gelingt einem dann das Brückenbauen und wie nähert man sich so Menschen an, wenn man das mit dem Fuß aufm Gaspedal machen muss?",{"sentences":51645,"speaker":282,"num_words":50192,"start":32212,"end":32415},[51646,51647,51649,51651,51653],{"text":1912,"start":32212,"end":32213},{"text":51648,"start":32217,"end":32251},"Also so ganz ohne Referenz komm ich ja meistens nicht rein.",{"text":51650,"start":32251,"end":32339},"Das heißt, es gibt schon irgendwie jemanden, der mich empfohlen hat und der dann Also wenn Du jemanden empfiehlst, heißt das ja, ich vertrau der Person.",{"text":51652,"start":32339,"end":32390},"Und meistens ist das jemand ausm Management, wo dann gewisse Basis Vertrauenswürdigkeit da ist.",{"text":51654,"start":32393,"end":32415},"Und dann remote find ich's schwierig, ja.",{"sentences":51656,"speaker":282,"num_words":50737,"start":32415,"end":32599},[51657,51659,51661,51663,51665],{"text":51658,"start":32415,"end":32476},"Aber oft ist es halt dann auch so, dass wenn Sie 'n Office haben, ich sehr oft im Office bin.",{"text":51660,"start":32476,"end":32517},"Also ich versuch wirklich dann immer da zu sein und die Leute kennenzulernen.",{"text":51662,"start":32520,"end":32562},"Und was ich denen oft auch die ersten Schritte mache, ist sone Bestandsaufnahme.",{"text":51664,"start":32566,"end":32594},"Also es ist son bisschen wie eine Tech Dudeligence.",{"text":1113,"start":32598,"end":32599},{"sentences":51667,"speaker":282,"num_words":50998,"start":32603,"end":32890},[51668,51670,51672,51674,51676],{"text":51669,"start":32603,"end":32671},"Ich nenn's eher Healthcheck, einfach tief zu verstehen, wie in welchem Stadium ist eigentlich die Abteilung Produkt und Technologie.",{"text":51671,"start":32671,"end":32748},"Und basierend darauf dann zu entscheiden, was sind jetzt die nächsten Schritte, die man eigentlich machen müsste für die nächsten 6 bis 8, 9 Monate?",{"text":51673,"start":32752,"end":32785},"Und in diesem Health Check Szenario interview ich viele.",{"text":51675,"start":32785,"end":32837},"Also ich sprech mit vielen und da lernt man sich kennen, man geht gemeinsam zu Mittag.",{"text":51677,"start":32837,"end":32890},"Ab und zu gibt's Events in den Unternehmens, wo ich dann auch versuch, dabei zu sein.",{"sentences":51679,"speaker":282,"num_words":51690,"start":32893,"end":33026},[51680,51682,51684,51686,51688],{"text":51681,"start":32893,"end":32933},"Und so kommt man eigentlich dazu, dass da 'n gewisses Vertrauen da ist.",{"text":51683,"start":32933,"end":32970},"Und die Leute fragen mich ja auch, was hast Du vorher gemacht?",{"text":51685,"start":32970,"end":32986},"Was hast Du vorher gearbeitet?",{"text":51687,"start":32990,"end":33007},"Was für Projekte hast Du entwickelt?",{"text":51689,"start":33010,"end":33026},"Und eine gewisse Erfahrung hab ich.",42,{"sentences":51692,"speaker":282,"num_words":49829,"start":33026,"end":33277},[51693,51695,51697,51699],{"text":51694,"start":33026,"end":33097},"Und da, das sorgt dafür, dass die Leute dann auch sagen, okay, der hat schon mal so was schon in der Vergangenheit gemacht.",{"text":51696,"start":33100,"end":33133},"Und ich kann davon auch profitieren und mich zum Beispiel auch weiterentwickeln.",{"text":51698,"start":33138,"end":33243},"Letztes Mal gab's zum Beispiel einen, der wollte auch CTO werden, der war noch Softwareentwickler und hat mich dann auch intensiver gefragt, in welchen welchen Pfad er einschlagen könnte, wie er's machen könnte.",{"text":51700,"start":33246,"end":33277},"Und ich glaub, so was ist schon interessant für Entwickler.",{"sentences":51702,"speaker":854,"num_words":50274,"start":33281,"end":33542},[51703,51705],{"text":51704,"start":33281,"end":33538},"Wenn Du jetzt so in verschiedenste Teams gehst, dann dann siehst Du ja auch irgendwie für sehr unterschiedliche Konstellationen, wie die Leute irgendwie zusammenarbeiten und würdest Du wirklich sagen, die die Probleme, die in den Unternehmen existieren, die sind sehr individuell oder ist das irgendwie doch immer son Einheitsbrei und sagt so, na, wenn man die Stellschraube hat, die sei überall die gleiche und dann dann hat man irgendwie die Lösung für, wie das Team besser werden kann.",{"text":1113,"start":33538,"end":33542},{"sentences":51707,"speaker":282,"num_words":51582,"start":33545,"end":33861},[51708,51710,51712,51714,51716],{"text":51709,"start":33545,"end":33581},"Also auf dem ersten Blick sind die immer recht identisch, die Probleme.",{"text":51711,"start":33584,"end":33678},"Und aufm zweiten Blick, wenn man detaillierter reingeht, merkt man dann schon, dass es schon irgendwie 'n anderes Business ist und die Probleme irgendwie anders gehandhabt werden müssen.",{"text":51713,"start":33681,"end":33706},"Also es ist schon sehr individuell aus meiner Sicht.",{"text":51715,"start":33710,"end":33758},"Aber ausm ersten Blick ist es einfach, wo man denkt, okay, ist einfach 'n strukturelles Problem.",{"text":51717,"start":33762,"end":33861},"Es gab zum Beispiel ein Team, das hatte irgendwie 15 Mitarbeiter und eine Person hat die geführt, wo ich mir dachte, okay, ich wunder mich jetzt nicht, warum das nicht funktioniert.",{"sentences":51719,"speaker":282,"num_words":50152,"start":33861,"end":34105},[51720,51721,51723,51725,51727],{"text":1912,"start":33861,"end":33864},{"text":51722,"start":33868,"end":33886},"Aber die Leute wissen das einfach nicht.",{"text":51724,"start":33886,"end":33962},"Also weil die die Erfahrung einfach vorher nicht gemacht haben und sich auch denken, okay cool, ich hab 15 Mitarbeiter kann ich jetzt anleiten.",{"text":51726,"start":33966,"end":34029},"Aber merk dann erst später, okay, 15 Mitarbeiter haben Bedürfnisse, die wollen mit dir sprechen, die wollen one 9 Gespräche haben.",{"text":51728,"start":34032,"end":34105},"Und wenn ich 14 Dark Reports hab, dann bin ich jeden Tag in Meetings und hab keine Zeit für irgendwas anderes mehr.",{"sentences":51730,"speaker":282,"num_words":50085,"start":34108,"end":34156},[51731],{"text":51732,"start":34108,"end":34156},"Und ja, dann fängt man dann an zu sagen, okay, lass uns das mal anders strukturieren.",{"sentences":51734,"speaker":405,"num_words":51745,"start":34160,"end":34349},[51735,51737,51739,51741,51743],{"text":51736,"start":34160,"end":34175},"Was lachst Du so gern?",{"text":51738,"start":34175,"end":34212},"Ich ich hatte mal übergangsweise sone Situation mit 16 Leuten.",{"text":51740,"start":34216,"end":34297},"Weil mir ein Ich dachte, ich dachte, ich hab Nee, weil mir son Teamlead mal ausgefallen war, dann hab ich das kurzfristig mit übernommen.",{"text":51742,"start":34301,"end":34341},"Und da bist Du schon, also da ist deine Woche im Prinzip gelaufen.",{"text":51744,"start":34345,"end":34349},"So, so.",54,{"sentences":51747,"speaker":405,"num_words":282,"start":34349,"end":34352},[51748],{"text":1912,"start":34349,"end":34352},{"sentences":51750,"speaker":282,"num_words":50593,"start":34355,"end":34562},[51751,51753,51755,51757],{"text":51752,"start":34355,"end":34366},"Ich hatte das auch.",{"text":51754,"start":34366,"end":34404},"Ich hatte 13 direct Reports und man kommt zu nichts anderes.",{"text":51756,"start":34404,"end":34471},"Also Du lernst, morgens gehst Du rein, machst Meetings one on ons und am Freitag bist Du abends wieder raus.",{"text":51758,"start":34471,"end":34562},"Also das war schon 'n bisschen, also ist auch frustrierend für einen selber, find ich, weil man dann irgendwie gar nicht das Gefühl hat, dass man effektiv ist.",{"sentences":51760,"speaker":405,"num_words":49957,"start":34562,"end":34842},[51761,51763,51765,51767,51769],{"text":51762,"start":34562,"end":34649},"Und ich muss auch sagen, ich find so one on one und und diese Art von Gesprächen und was da so ad hoc alles passiert, auch anstrengender.",{"text":51764,"start":34653,"end":34716},"Ich mein das gar nicht abwertend für die Leute, weil sie jetzt mit ihrem Problem zu mir kommen oder so.",{"text":51766,"start":34716,"end":34814},"Aber ich find das schwieriger, als wenn ich jetzt einen Tag lang nur Produktmeetings oder Technical Review oder wo Du halt son bisschen mehr weißt, ne, was erwartet dich da?",{"text":51768,"start":34814,"end":34829},"Was wird von dir erwartet?",{"text":51770,"start":34829,"end":34842},"Was kannst Du beitragen?",{"sentences":51772,"speaker":405,"num_words":50378,"start":34842,"end":35070},[51773,51775,51777,51779],{"text":51774,"start":34842,"end":34887},"Da da ist so so alles 'n bisschen vorgegebener und in gelenkteren Bahnen.",{"text":51776,"start":34891,"end":34947},"Und in in so oder Skip Level one on onons so was, da kann ja alles passieren.",{"text":51778,"start":34947,"end":34998},"So, da da kommst Du rein und da ist Wundertüte, wenn Du reinkommst so, ja.",{"text":51780,"start":35001,"end":35070},"Und das fand ich immer son bisschen schlauchender so am Ende des Tages, was so das persönliche Energielevel angeht einfach.",{"sentences":51782,"speaker":282,"num_words":51792,"start":35073,"end":35297},[51783,51784,51786,51788,51790],{"text":1912,"start":35073,"end":35074},{"text":51785,"start":35074,"end":35080},"Das stimmt.",{"text":51787,"start":35080,"end":35150},"Und also ich glaub, das liegt auch daran, wenn Du so viele hast, kannst Du nicht so nah an den Leuten sein.",{"text":51789,"start":35150,"end":35195},"Also wenn Du 'n kleineres Team hast, dann sprichst Du ja täglich eigentlich miteinander.",{"text":51791,"start":35199,"end":35297},"Und man merkt dann, glaub ich, auch wenn irgendwie 'n Problem da ist, viel früher und man braucht gar nicht warten, bis jetzt das One on One Meeting irgendwie ansteht.",69,{"sentences":51794,"speaker":405,"num_words":49874,"start":35301,"end":35370},[51795,51796,51797,51798,51800],{"text":1912,"start":35301,"end":35302},{"text":1912,"start":35306,"end":35307},{"text":1917,"start":35310,"end":35311},{"text":51799,"start":35311,"end":35333},"Jetzt haben wir über über Teams gesprochen.",{"text":51801,"start":35333,"end":35370},"Vielleicht noch mal auf die Frage, die ich eben gestellt hab.",{"sentences":51803,"speaker":405,"num_words":50152,"start":35370,"end":35615},[51804,51806,51808],{"text":51805,"start":35370,"end":35480},"Du musstest ja nicht nur mit den Leuten irgendwie gut stellen und alle kennenlernen und verstehen, sondern auch son bisschen immer mit der Materie, mit der Technik, mit der Domäne, mit dem Stack.",{"text":51807,"start":35484,"end":35504},"Wie wie arbeitest Du da jetzt ein?",{"text":51809,"start":35504,"end":35615},"Wenn jetzt, weiß nicht, morgen kommt eine Firma, die braucht Hilfe von dir und die machen, ja, ich weiß nicht, was Du noch nicht gemacht hast, die machen Inforance Software in Kobol oder so was.",{"sentences":51811,"speaker":282,"num_words":282,"start":35615,"end":35618},[51812],{"text":1113,"start":35615,"end":35618},{"sentences":51814,"speaker":405,"num_words":51818,"start":35618,"end":35667},[51815,51816],{"text":1912,"start":35618,"end":35622},{"text":51817,"start":35622,"end":35667},"Wie was sind so deine ersten 3 Punkte auf deiner Agenda, da reinzukommen?",14,{"sentences":51820,"speaker":282,"num_words":50274,"start":35671,"end":35935},[51821,51822,51824,51826,51828],{"text":1912,"start":35671,"end":35672},{"text":51823,"start":35675,"end":35722},"Also mit diesen, von dem ich erzählt hab, der bringt mir viel, einfach tiefer reinzukommen.",{"text":51825,"start":35726,"end":35811},"Und meistens ist das so, wenn ich jetzt wirklich sone Interim Citro Rolle nehme, dass ich ja gar nicht der Experte für all diese Bereiche sein muss.",{"text":51827,"start":35815,"end":35874},"Sondern es geht oft darum, eigentlich eher das auszurichten und strategisch zu entscheiden, in welche Richtung das gehen sollte.",{"text":51829,"start":35874,"end":35935},"Das heißt, ich überlasse den Mitarbeitern, die jetzt 'n Kobold Experte, Kobold Entwickler, dem überlass ich das.",{"sentences":51831,"speaker":282,"num_words":51690,"start":35935,"end":36072},[51832,51834],{"text":51833,"start":35935,"end":35989},"Das ist jetzt nicht so, dass ich da reingeh und das versuch in die Tiefe alles zu verstehen.",{"text":51835,"start":35992,"end":36072},"Sondern da geht's eher darum, die richtigen Punkte aufzugreifen, sodass die Probleme, die man bislang hat, ja, Millimeter sind und man besser zusammenarbeiten kann.",{"sentences":51837,"speaker":405,"num_words":51848,"start":36075,"end":36499},[51838,51840,51842,51844,51846],{"text":51839,"start":36075,"end":36185},"Ja, aber es gibt doch trotzdem sonen Bereich, in dem man sein will zwischen, also Du willst kein kein Mikromanagement betreiben, das versteh ich schon, ja, und die sollen ihre eigenen Fachentscheidung treffen.",{"text":51841,"start":36185,"end":36241},"Aber Du musst ja trotzdem tief genug drinstecken, zu merken, wenn dir irgendjemand Bullshit erzählt.",{"text":51843,"start":36245,"end":36419},"So, ja, wenn jetzt dein Kobol Entwickler ankommt und sagt, na ja, wir bauen jetzt das Frontend übrigens auch in Kobol und haben da so über, weiß es nicht, Web Assembley eine Kobol Run Time für deinen Browser gebaut und die nehmen wir jetzt, von jetzt an alles UI- mäßige zu bauen.",{"text":51845,"start":36419,"end":36450},"Da müsst ja irgendwann son bisschen die Alarmglocken angehen.",{"text":51847,"start":36450,"end":36499},"Ja, Ja, und deswegen meinte, son bisschen muss man da schon irgendwie reinkommen, oder?",123,{"sentences":51850,"speaker":282,"num_words":51745,"start":36502,"end":36677},[51851,51852,51854,51856,51858],{"text":1912,"start":36502,"end":36503},{"text":51853,"start":36503,"end":36571},"Also es gibt ja natürlich so TechStac Formate, wo man dann überlegt, was natürlich nur Tierentscheidungen man treffen möchte.",{"text":51855,"start":36571,"end":36594},"Aber die mach ich gemeinsam mit dem Team.",{"text":51857,"start":36597,"end":36613},"Die mach ich nicht top down.",{"text":51859,"start":36617,"end":36677},"Da geh ich gemeinsam rein, erzähl denen, was ich so aus der Vergangenheit kenne, was gut bei mir funktioniert hat.",{"sentences":51861,"speaker":282,"num_words":50417,"start":36681,"end":36884},[51862,51864,51866,51868,51870],{"text":51863,"start":36681,"end":36699},"Das Team erzählt, was sie sich vorstellen.",{"text":51865,"start":36703,"end":36733},"Und dann überlegt man, was ist wirklich der richtige Weg.",{"text":51867,"start":36736,"end":36762},"Also dein Beispiel ist jetzt extrem, glaube ich.",{"text":51869,"start":36765,"end":36842},"Aber ich glaub, da kommt man im Team auch schon Also da bin ich auch nicht der Einzige, dann der sagt, nee, das funktioniert so nicht.",{"text":51871,"start":36842,"end":36884},"Sondern da ist dann meistens so, dass andere auch im Team irgendwie mitarbeiten.",{"sentences":51873,"speaker":282,"num_words":49874,"start":36884,"end":36961},[51874],{"text":51875,"start":36884,"end":36961},"Es gibt zum Beispiel ein Thema, was ich mal hatte, da gab's 'n etwas älteren Mitarbeiter, der Maven genutzt hat immer.",{"sentences":51877,"speaker":405,"num_words":49869,"start":36961,"end":36971},[51878,51879],{"text":1113,"start":36961,"end":36964},{"text":51880,"start":36964,"end":36971},"Und da",{"sentences":51882,"speaker":282,"num_words":50055,"start":36971,"end":37028},[51883,51885,51887],{"text":51884,"start":36971,"end":36998},"gab's 'n anderen, der wollte unbedingt gradel nutzen.",{"text":51886,"start":36998,"end":37023},"Und gradel war da recht neu und frisch.",{"text":668,"start":37027,"end":37028},{"sentences":51889,"speaker":405,"num_words":50021,"start":37031,"end":37063},[51890],{"text":51891,"start":37031,"end":37063},"Also Java Bild Tools für die Leute da draußen, ne?",{"sentences":51893,"speaker":282,"num_words":51745,"start":37066,"end":37238},[51894,51895,51897,51899,51901],{"text":14742,"start":37066,"end":37067},{"text":51896,"start":37071,"end":37098},"Und da ging's halt darum, ja, was nutzen wir jetzt?",{"text":51898,"start":37102,"end":37148},"Und ich, da war, das war meine erste Rolle, wo ich 'n bisschen Leadershipfunktion war.",{"text":51900,"start":37151,"end":37217},"Und ich hatte da gar keinen Also ich fand zwar groovy und gradel cool, aber ich dachte mir, okay, Mavin ist etabliert.",{"text":51902,"start":37221,"end":37238},"Ist schon nicht verkehrt so, ne.",{"sentences":51904,"speaker":282,"num_words":51230,"start":37238,"end":37409},[51905,51907,51909,51911,51913],{"text":51906,"start":37238,"end":37251},"Könnte man auch nutzen.",{"text":51908,"start":37251,"end":37304},"Ich hatte da gar keine harte Richtlinie im Kopf, okay, das müssen wir jetzt so machen.",{"text":51910,"start":37307,"end":37341},"Und dann hab ich die 'n bisschen gegeneinander antreten lassen im Endeffekt.",{"text":51912,"start":37341,"end":37384},"Dann hab ich denen gesagt, okay, zeig mal, warum deins so cool ist.",{"text":51914,"start":37384,"end":37409},"Zeig mal, warum Gradu so cool ist.",{"sentences":51916,"speaker":282,"num_words":51582,"start":37409,"end":37731},[51917,51919,51921,51923,51925],{"text":51918,"start":37409,"end":37430},"Zeig mal, warum Mavin so cool ist.",{"text":51920,"start":37430,"end":37595},"Und dann haben die sich das gegenseitig präsentiert und dann hat der eine gemerkt, okay, ich schreib hier irgendwie 100 Zeilen, irgendwas zu machen und der andere macht das in 5 Zeilen in in in Gradule, weil das einfach eine Programmiersprache ist, die geil genutzt wird und nicht XML.",{"text":51922,"start":37599,"end":37633},"Und dann sind bei den Leuten einfach selber die Lichter aufgegangen.",{"text":51924,"start":37637,"end":37660},"Und das ist natürlich der beste Fall, ne.",{"text":51926,"start":37660,"end":37731},"Also das ist jetzt schon Szenario, das ich beschreibe, was ja der beste Fall ist, wo das Team das selber lernt.",{"sentences":51928,"speaker":282,"num_words":50958,"start":37735,"end":37805},[51929],{"text":51930,"start":37735,"end":37805},"Da der Respekt zwischen diesem neuen Mitarbeiter und dem älteren Mitarbeiter dann auch irgendwie gewachsen ist und dass Merz dann geschweißt wurde.",{"sentences":51932,"speaker":405,"num_words":50391,"start":37808,"end":38102},[51933,51935,51937],{"text":51934,"start":37808,"end":37832},"Ja, also ist ja cool, wenn das läuft.",{"text":51936,"start":37832,"end":38055},"Ich hätte jetzt nur erwartet, weil Du ja vorhin auch gesagt hast, Du bist halt oft auch irgendwie als Feuerwehrmann unterwegs, dass ja man dann vielleicht grade eher in so Situationen kommt, wo halt nicht so cool funktionale Teams irgendwie da sind, sondern ne, da son bisschen mehr Aufräumarbeit irgendwie erst mal noch gebraucht hat und vielleicht auch mal son bisschen mehr Führung und Händchenhalten irgendwie erforderlich ist.",{"text":51938,"start":38055,"end":38102},"Aber wenn wenn das trotzdem mit den Teams so klappt, dann ist es ja umso",{"sentences":51940,"speaker":282,"num_words":51230,"start":38105,"end":38266},[51941,51942,51944,51946,51948],{"text":38109,"start":38105,"end":38106},{"text":51943,"start":38106,"end":38145},"Ja, also es gibt natürlich auch Szenarien, wo das nicht so gut funktioniert.",{"text":51945,"start":38145,"end":38178},"Aber es liegt meistens daran, weil die Verantwortlichkeiten nicht klar sind.",{"text":51947,"start":38178,"end":38212},"Also im Start-up ist das ja oft so, jeder macht alles.",{"text":51949,"start":38215,"end":38266},"Und wenn Du irgendwie so 30, 40 Mitarbeiter bist, dann musst Du das langsam mal definieren.",{"sentences":51951,"speaker":282,"num_words":51149,"start":38270,"end":38424},[51952,51954,51956,51958,51960],{"text":51953,"start":38270,"end":38291},"Weil sonst fühlt sich auch keiner verantwortlich.",{"text":51955,"start":38295,"end":38322},"Und das ist auch etwas, was ich halt mitmache.",{"text":51957,"start":38326,"end":38395},"Wo ich dann auch sage, okay, es gibt ein Projekt und da ist jetzt nur diese Person verantwortlich oder das Team.",{"text":51959,"start":38398,"end":38410},"Und die lösen das.",{"text":51961,"start":38413,"end":38424},"Das funktioniert auch meistens.",{"sentences":51963,"speaker":282,"num_words":50485,"start":38424,"end":38467},[51964,51966,51968],{"text":51965,"start":38424,"end":38441},"Natürlich gibt's immer unterschiedliche Meinungen.",{"text":51967,"start":38445,"end":38463},"Aber so ist das halt, ne.",{"text":38469,"start":38463,"end":38467},{"sentences":51970,"speaker":405,"num_words":50352,"start":38471,"end":38712},[51971,51972,51973,51975],{"text":1113,"start":38471,"end":38472},{"text":1113,"start":38476,"end":38477},{"text":51974,"start":38477,"end":38676},"Gibt es so eine Art von Fehler oder eine eine Gruppe von Fehler, 'n Typ von Fehler, den Du sehr häufig siehst, wo Du sagst, okay, wenn der Jan mir jetzt mal 5 Minuten das Mikrofon gibt und dann erklär ich den Teamset ups aufgebaut sein müssen, damit nicht jeder da draußen in in dieselbe Falle rennt so.",{"text":51976,"start":38679,"end":38712},"Gibt's so was oder sind das wirklich so ganz unterschiedliche Sachen?",{"sentences":51978,"speaker":282,"num_words":51989,"start":38716,"end":38829},[51979,51981,51983,51985,51987],{"text":51980,"start":38716,"end":38742},"Nee, also die Größe des Teams ist schon wichtig.",{"text":51982,"start":38746,"end":38768},"Also optimal find ich immer 5, 6 Mitarbeiter.",{"text":51984,"start":38771,"end":38793},"Also man sagt, diese 8 Leute maximal.",{"text":51986,"start":38797,"end":38810},"Das find ich schon viel.",{"text":51988,"start":38810,"end":38829},"Ich würd's eher kleiner halten.",34,{"sentences":51991,"speaker":282,"num_words":49885,"start":38829,"end":38873},[51992],{"text":51993,"start":38829,"end":38873},"Ich würd's versuchen, so 5 bis 6 find ich eigentlich ganz gute Lösungen.",{"sentences":51995,"speaker":854,"num_words":49853,"start":38873,"end":38892},[51996],{"text":51997,"start":38873,"end":38892},"Und die also unterschiedlicher Rollen.",{"sentences":51999,"speaker":282,"num_words":50289,"start":38892,"end":39049},[52000,52001,52002,52004,52006],{"text":14742,"start":38892,"end":38896},{"text":1113,"start":38896,"end":38900},{"text":52003,"start":38900,"end":38932},"Also cross funktional, das ist das ist schon wichtig.",{"text":52005,"start":38935,"end":38989},"Ich hatte sogar ein-, zweimal mal Teams, wo wirklich auch Sales Leute in den Teams dabei waren.",{"text":52007,"start":38989,"end":39049},"Das war das war, das fand ich schon sehr gut, weil die Leute sich dann angefangen haben, besser zu verstehen.",{"sentences":52009,"speaker":282,"num_words":50021,"start":39049,"end":39080},[52010,52012],{"text":52011,"start":39049,"end":39055},"Aber selten.",{"text":52013,"start":39059,"end":39080},"Aber da müssen die Leute auch Lust zu",{"sentences":52015,"speaker":405,"num_words":50745,"start":39080,"end":39164},[52016,52017,52019],{"text":7686,"start":39080,"end":39083},{"text":52018,"start":39083,"end":39144},"Das wär ja jetzt meine Frage gewesen, von von welcher Seite das ausgegangen ist und wie freiwillig das war.",{"text":52020,"start":39144,"end":39164},"Aber wenn's funktioniert, ist sehr cool.",{"sentences":52022,"speaker":282,"num_words":51989,"start":39166,"end":39279},[52023,52024,52026,52027],{"text":1912,"start":39166,"end":39167},{"text":52025,"start":39170,"end":39207},"Genau, das ist so, glaub ich, das Grundsätzlichste, was ich sagen würde.",{"text":1113,"start":39210,"end":39211},{"text":52028,"start":39214,"end":39279},"Was eigentlich so was das ist, was was ich immer versuch, einzuführen, dass das halt nicht zu große Teams werden.",{"sentences":52030,"speaker":405,"num_words":50480,"start":39279,"end":39422},[52031,52033,52035],{"text":52032,"start":39279,"end":39353},"Und was ist sone Art von Fehler, die oftmals vielleicht viel zu spät bemerkt wird, weil sie nicht so wirklich sichtbare Symptome haben?",{"text":52034,"start":39353,"end":39370},"Weißt Du, was ich mein?",{"text":52036,"start":39370,"end":39422},"Sone son Problem, was lange gerne untergerig irgendwie so vor sich hin stellt und dann",{"sentences":52038,"speaker":282,"num_words":258,"start":39425,"end":39457},[52039,52040,52042],{"text":1912,"start":39425,"end":39426},{"text":52041,"start":39430,"end":39439},"Dann irgendwie hochnimmt.",{"text":52043,"start":39444,"end":39457},"Testing ist ein Thema.",{"sentences":52045,"speaker":405,"num_words":49869,"start":39460,"end":39470},[52046,52048],{"text":52047,"start":39460,"end":39465},"Ja, okay.",{"text":606,"start":39469,"end":39470},{"sentences":52050,"speaker":282,"num_words":50192,"start":39473,"end":39667},[52051,52053,52055,52057,52059],{"text":52052,"start":39473,"end":39487},"macht ja gefühlt irgendwie niemand.",{"text":52054,"start":39491,"end":39529},"Aber man merkt dann irgendwann, okay, das ist 'n riesiger Monolith geworden.",{"text":52056,"start":39532,"end":39592},"Und ich schraub hier an der Seite was und auf der anderen Seite explodiert's auf einmal und keiner weiß, warum.",{"text":52058,"start":39596,"end":39657},"Das ist auch etwas, was ich halt irgendwie früh gelernt hab, als ich diese diese gebaut hab, diese AI damals.",{"text":52060,"start":39661,"end":39667},"Recht kompliziert.",{"sentences":52062,"speaker":282,"num_words":50050,"start":39671,"end":39776},[52063,52065,52067,52069,52071],{"text":52064,"start":39671,"end":39695},"Und ich konnte nachts manchmal nicht mehr schlafen.",{"text":52066,"start":39695,"end":39707},"Ich dachte, scheiße.",{"text":52068,"start":39711,"end":39733},"Ich weiß nicht, ob das jetzt noch funktioniert.",{"text":52070,"start":39733,"end":39754},"Ich hab jetzt die Änderung gemacht.",{"text":52072,"start":39757,"end":39776},"Und ich hab dann irgendwann angefangen, die.",{"sentences":52074,"speaker":282,"num_words":50192,"start":39776,"end":39977},[52075,52077,52079,52081,52083],{"text":52076,"start":39776,"end":39818},"Also nur, gar nicht so Integrationstest und alles, was Du rum gewesen.",{"text":52078,"start":39818,"end":39854},"Nur, Tests versuchen zu 80 80 Prozent Coverage zu haben.",{"text":52080,"start":39854,"end":39920},"Und das hat schon viel geholfen, einfach zu sehen, okay, BASIC Vertrauen da da das kann nicht mehr komplett schiefgehen.",{"text":52082,"start":39920,"end":39959},"Wenn da 'n Bug entsteht, dann ist das 'n kleiner Bug.",{"text":52084,"start":39962,"end":39977},"Also das ist, glaub ich, 1.",{"sentences":52086,"speaker":282,"num_words":49885,"start":39981,"end":40019},[52087],{"text":52088,"start":39981,"end":40019},"Und ich hab noch irgendwas im Kopf, ist mir aber jetzt wieder abhandengekommen.",{"sentences":52090,"speaker":405,"num_words":51371,"start":40023,"end":40208},[52091,52092,52094],{"text":1917,"start":40023,"end":40024},{"text":52093,"start":40024,"end":40046},"Und vielleicht so die gegenteilige Frage.",{"text":52095,"start":40050,"end":40208},"Gibt's auch Probleme, die für für die Beteiligten so enorm riesig wirken, die aber eigentlich so ganz kleine Lösungen, haben gesagt, okay, Leute, ihr müsst an dieser Stellschraube vielleicht nur 'n kleines bisschen drehen oder irgendwas 'n bisschen anders machen und schon wär euer Leben so viel einfacher.",{"sentences":52097,"speaker":282,"num_words":50485,"start":40212,"end":40250},[52098,52099],{"text":1912,"start":40212,"end":40213},{"text":52100,"start":40213,"end":40250},"Mir ist die Antwort von der letzten Frage noch mal eingefallen.",{"sentences":52102,"speaker":405,"num_words":258,"start":40250,"end":40277},[52103,52105],{"text":52104,"start":40250,"end":40271},"Ja, dann haut die erst raus.",{"text":52106,"start":40271,"end":40277},"Alles gut.",{"sentences":52108,"speaker":282,"num_words":854,"start":40277,"end":40286},[52109],{"text":52110,"start":40277,"end":40286},"Also Technologieupdates.",{"sentences":52112,"speaker":405,"num_words":258,"start":40290,"end":40316},[52113,52114],{"text":52047,"start":40290,"end":40295},{"text":52115,"start":40298,"end":40316},"Also Ja, das kommt auch direkt.",{"sentences":52117,"speaker":282,"num_words":50550,"start":40320,"end":40572},[52118,52120,52122,52124,52126],{"text":52119,"start":40320,"end":40403},"Irgendwie, also letztes Mal gab's wieder irgendwie 'n, da wurd irgendwie eine uralte PHP PHP Lösung genutzt, wo's super viele Sicherheitslösungen Sicherheitslücken gibt.",{"text":52121,"start":40407,"end":40493},"Wo man einfach, wenn man das, weiß nicht, einmal im Jahr machst 'n Update, das reicht schon, damit Du nicht ganz aufm aufm aufm Boden fällst damit.",{"text":52123,"start":40497,"end":40530},"Also das ist etwas, was irgendwie oft vergessen wird, find ich.",{"text":52125,"start":40533,"end":40552},"Und das ist kein großer Aufwand.",{"text":52127,"start":40552,"end":40572},"Man muss das einfach nur schedulen.",{"sentences":52129,"speaker":282,"num_words":49944,"start":40576,"end":40605},[52130,52131],{"text":14742,"start":40576,"end":40577},{"text":52132,"start":40577,"end":40605},"Und die, wiederhol noch mal die Frage, bitte.",{"sentences":52134,"speaker":405,"num_words":50262,"start":40605,"end":40734},[52135],{"text":52136,"start":40605,"end":40734},"Die Frage war, gibt es irgend eine Art von Problem, die halt für die Beteiligten so so riesig und ungreifbar und nicht angebar wirkt, aber die vielleicht eigentlich ganz ganz kleine, simple Lösungen haben, die aber niemand sieht in dem Moment.",{"sentences":52138,"speaker":282,"num_words":52146,"start":40738,"end":40916},[52139,52140,52142,52143,52145],{"text":1912,"start":40738,"end":40739},{"text":52141,"start":40743,"end":40880},"Also oft die Entwickler, die so im Seniorbereich sind und sich weiterentwickeln wollen in Richtung Managementlösung, also Richtung Management und dann Organisationsstrukturen verändern wollen, die denken immer, hab ich das Gefühl, ja, sie brauchen erst die Autorität, das machen zu können.",{"text":1113,"start":40884,"end":40885},{"text":52144,"start":40885,"end":40912},"Damit einem keiner auf die Füße tritt.",{"text":1113,"start":40912,"end":40916},51,{"sentences":52148,"speaker":282,"num_words":50430,"start":40916,"end":41149},[52149,52151,52152,52154,52156],{"text":52150,"start":40916,"end":40948},"Und ich denk mir immer, mach doch einfach erst mal.",{"text":1113,"start":40948,"end":40951},{"text":52153,"start":40951,"end":41026},"Mach doch das einfach in deinem Team, wenn das funktioniert, werden alle sagen, boah geil, ihr macht das irgendwie doppelt so schnell wie vorher.",{"text":52155,"start":41030,"end":41062},"Also oft sind diese Gedanken so hierarchisch sehr angelegt.",{"text":52157,"start":41062,"end":41149},"Und das ist, glaube ich, oft 'n Problem, dass man so oft denkt, okay, ich brauch erst mal den CTO Titel, bevor ich hier überhaupt was machen kann.",{"sentences":52159,"speaker":282,"num_words":854,"start":41149,"end":41156},[52160],{"text":52161,"start":41149,"end":41156},"Das ist",{"sentences":52163,"speaker":405,"num_words":50617,"start":41156,"end":41325},[52164,52166],{"text":52165,"start":41156,"end":41183},"auch son typisches Szene Ei Problem, ne.",{"text":52167,"start":41183,"end":41325},"Also die Leute denken irgendwie immer, ich brauch hier ich brauch hier Autorität, damit ich was umsetzen kann und vergessen dabei, dass sie vielleicht erst mal anfangen Sachen anfangen sollten, Sachen umzusetzen, damit sie dann diesen CDO Titel bekommen und damit dann quasi aufsteigen so, ja.",{"sentences":52169,"speaker":282,"num_words":51254,"start":41328,"end":41463},[52170,52171,52173,52175,52177],{"text":1912,"start":41328,"end":41329},{"text":52172,"start":41329,"end":41364},"Das ist halt auch auf irgendwie son bisschen Ego Thema.",{"text":52174,"start":41367,"end":41420},"Und ich hab im Laufe der Zeit gemerkt, das das sollte man komplett wegschmeißen nach Möglichkeit.",{"text":52176,"start":41423,"end":41446},"Also das hält einen meistens nur auf irgendwie.",{"text":52178,"start":41449,"end":41463},"Und jeder hat das, ne.",{"sentences":52180,"speaker":282,"num_words":49853,"start":41463,"end":41479},[52181],{"text":52182,"start":41463,"end":41479},"Also jeder hat das irgendwie.",{"sentences":52184,"speaker":405,"num_words":51989,"start":41482,"end":41594},[52185,52186,52187,52188],{"text":1113,"start":41482,"end":41483},{"text":7839,"start":41483,"end":41486},{"text":7839,"start":41489,"end":41490},{"text":52189,"start":41494,"end":41594},"Was sind so deine Lieblingsarten von Kunden und was sind so Kunden oder, wo Du eher sagst, ah, die, also ich mach die jetzt halt mal, aber mein ist das nicht.",{"sentences":52191,"speaker":282,"num_words":50745,"start":41597,"end":41696},[52192,52193,52195,52197,52199],{"text":1912,"start":41597,"end":41598},{"text":52194,"start":41602,"end":41648},"Meine Lieblingskunden sind Start ups, also wenn wir jetzt 'n Start-up erreicht bleiben.",{"text":52196,"start":41648,"end":41680},"Start ups, die vor 1 Investment, Investmentrunde sind.",{"text":52198,"start":41680,"end":41691},"Oh, richtig vor.",{"text":1912,"start":41695,"end":41696},{"sentences":52201,"speaker":282,"num_words":49885,"start":41700,"end":41740},[52202,52204],{"text":52203,"start":41700,"end":41737},"Nee, es kann schon irgendwie eine CSA Runde sein oder so was.",{"text":7234,"start":41737,"end":41740},{"sentences":52206,"speaker":405,"num_words":49944,"start":41740,"end":41769},[52207],{"text":52208,"start":41740,"end":41769},"so, aber grade vor der nächsten Runde meinst Du?",{"sentences":52210,"speaker":282,"num_words":50301,"start":41769,"end":41928},[52211,52213,52215,52216,52218],{"text":52212,"start":41769,"end":41788},"Genau, vor der nächsten Runde sind.",{"text":52214,"start":41791,"end":41830},"Weil dann kann man sehr viel vorbereiten, diesen Wachstum zu managen.",{"text":1912,"start":41834,"end":41835},{"text":52217,"start":41835,"end":41857},"Oft ist das aber der umgekehrte Fall.",{"text":52219,"start":41857,"end":41928},"Die haben irgendwie, keine Ahnung, 'n paar Millionen bekommen, haben dann irgendwie 10 Leute angestellt und merken, okay, das funktioniert gar nicht.",{"sentences":52221,"speaker":282,"num_words":50152,"start":41931,"end":42180},[52222,52224,52226,52228,52230],{"text":52223,"start":41931,"end":41952},"Das ist ein bisschen schwieriger für mich einfach.",{"text":52225,"start":41955,"end":42056},"Und wenn man vorher Zeit hat, dann kann man das gut strukturieren und aufbauen, sodass das alle verstehen und dann auch dediziert einzelne Leute schrittweise einzustellen und so und so weiter.",{"text":52227,"start":42056,"end":42078},"Also das ist, das ist oft 1.",{"text":52229,"start":42082,"end":42139},"Und aktuell mach ich sehr gerne einfach auch so Themen, die erst im Bereich Forschung eigentlich unterwegs sind.",{"text":52231,"start":42142,"end":42180},"Was grade grade aktuell arbeite ich für das Projekt Mission KI.",{"sentences":52233,"speaker":282,"num_words":51039,"start":42184,"end":42420},[52234,52236,52238,52240,52242],{"text":52235,"start":42184,"end":42220},"Das ist vom Bundesministerium für Digitales und Verkehr initiiert worden.",{"text":52237,"start":42223,"end":42237},"Gibt's ja leider nicht mehr.",{"text":52239,"start":42237,"end":42262},"Das wird jetzt übernommen von von dem Digitalministerium.",{"text":52241,"start":42266,"end":42393},"Und die haben sich ausgesucht, also die haben gesagt, wir wir machen Fellowship, also 'n Stipendium für die 10 besten PhD Studenten im Bereich AI und helfen ihnen dabei, ihre Forschung in Business Modelle und Start-up auszulagern.",{"text":52243,"start":42397,"end":42420},"Also dass sie ja selber halt gründen können.",{"sentences":52245,"speaker":282,"num_words":50480,"start":42423,"end":42568},[52246,52248,52250,52252,52254],{"text":52247,"start":42423,"end":42455},"Und das mach ich aktuell gerade und das macht viel Spaß.",{"text":52249,"start":42459,"end":42471},"Das klingt auch gut.",{"text":52251,"start":42471,"end":42528},"Das das funktioniert auch im Endeffekt aber auch nur, weil das unterstützt wird von vom vom Staat.",{"text":52253,"start":42528,"end":42564},"Oder manchmal auch vom oder im Inkubator oder so was.",{"text":14742,"start":42567,"end":42568},{"sentences":52256,"speaker":282,"num_words":50050,"start":42568,"end":42675},[52257,52259,52261],{"text":52258,"start":42568,"end":42622},"Das ist, das find ich sehr spannend, weil es wirklich diese Brücke steckt zwischen Research und Business.",{"text":52260,"start":42626,"end":42669},"Und 'n bisschen Erfahrung hab ich ja damals 2015 schon gehabt mit dem AAAAAAA.",{"text":7839,"start":42674,"end":42675},{"sentences":52263,"speaker":405,"num_words":50078,"start":42679,"end":42760},[52264],{"text":52265,"start":42679,"end":42760},"Eine eine Standardfrage, die wir, glaub ich, auch allen immer stellen, ist so, was was rätst Du Leuten, die gerne CTO werden wollen würden?",{"sentences":52267,"speaker":282,"num_words":52277,"start":42764,"end":43067},[52268,52269,52271,52273,52275],{"text":1912,"start":42764,"end":42765},{"text":52270,"start":42769,"end":42871},"Also ich glaub, wenn man CTO werden will, dann sollte man darauf vorbereitet sein, dass die Arbeit sich sehr stark verändert von dem, was man bislang gemacht hat, vor allem, wenn man Softwareentwickler ist.",{"text":52272,"start":42874,"end":42922},"Und dass man sich wirklich überlegen sollte, ob das wirklich die richtige Fahrt für einen ist.",{"text":52274,"start":42925,"end":43002},"Aber also man, ich ich sag auch für, man soll das auf jeden Fall ausprobieren und dann halt entscheiden, ob das die richtige Fahrt ist.",{"text":52276,"start":43002,"end":43067},"Weil ich merk oft, dass Softwareentwickler in die Rolle kommen und dann merken, okay, das gar nicht, was ich machen will.",97,{"sentences":52279,"speaker":282,"num_words":50651,"start":43067,"end":43411},[52280,52282,52284,52286,52288],{"text":52281,"start":43067,"end":43169},"Ich hab gar keine Lust irgendwie, mich mit Leuten, Menschen irgendwie die Probleme auseinanderzusetzen, sondern ich will einfach 8 Stunden vorm Rechner sitzen, geil geil geilen Code schreiben.",{"text":52283,"start":43172,"end":43195},"Weil das ist schon eine sehr andere Aufgabe.",{"text":52285,"start":43195,"end":43288},"Und man muss aus meiner Sicht auch nicht nur technisches zu wissen haben, son bisschen mehr über den Tellerrand schauen und verstehen, was die anderen, was alle anderen Abteilungen machen.",{"text":52287,"start":43288,"end":43371},"Also man muss 'n CEO und 'n CEO und alles, was so auf Ziel Level existiert, einfach grundsätzlich verstehen, wie die arbeiten, was die machen.",{"text":52289,"start":43374,"end":43411},"Und auf Ziel Level bist Du ja auch irgendwann für Budgets verantwortlich.",{"sentences":52291,"speaker":282,"num_words":50301,"start":43411,"end":43566},[52292,52294,52295,52297,52299],{"text":52293,"start":43411,"end":43446},"Das heißt, dieses Finanzthema muss halt auch irgendwie abdecken können.",{"text":1912,"start":43449,"end":43450},{"text":52296,"start":43450,"end":43477},"Vielleicht noch vielleicht noch ein ein kleiner Rat.",{"text":52298,"start":43477,"end":43498},"Ich würd's versuchen, immer schrittweise zu machen.",{"text":52300,"start":43498,"end":43566},"Also vielleicht ist im ersten Schritt eher eine Head off Rolle oder eine direkte Rolle, als jetzt direkt Institut zu werden.",{"sentences":52302,"speaker":282,"num_words":50838,"start":43569,"end":43604},[52303,52304],{"text":1912,"start":43569,"end":43570},{"text":52305,"start":43570,"end":43604},"Weil das auch schon 'n bisschen hilft, sich darauf vorzubereiten.",{"sentences":52307,"speaker":405,"num_words":49848,"start":43608,"end":43627},[52308],{"text":52309,"start":43608,"end":43627},"Aber also geht es denn anders?",{"sentences":52311,"speaker":282,"num_words":49885,"start":43631,"end":43672},[52312,52313],{"text":1912,"start":43631,"end":43632},{"text":52314,"start":43632,"end":43672},"Also 'n Start ups hast Du dann auf einmal eine Situor Rolle.",{"sentences":52316,"speaker":405,"num_words":50066,"start":43675,"end":43878},[52317,52319,52321,52323,52325],{"text":52318,"start":43675,"end":43743},"Ja, also okay, dann hast Du die aufm Papier, aber das ist ja ehrlicherweise meilenweit weg von dem, was Ja.",{"text":52320,"start":43746,"end":43767},"Die meisten anderen CTOs da draußen machen.",{"text":52322,"start":43767,"end":43841},"Dann hast Du Lust zwar, aber Du wächst, also Du gehst ja trotzdem diese Teamlead, Head of Engineering, VP CTO Reise durch.",{"text":52324,"start":43841,"end":43874},"Du heißt halt nur von Anfang an so, aber Ja.",{"text":43880,"start":43877,"end":43878},{"sentences":52327,"speaker":405,"num_words":49944,"start":43878,"end":43907},[52328,52329,52330],{"text":1912,"start":43878,"end":43882},{"text":1912,"start":43882,"end":43885},{"text":52331,"start":43885,"end":43907},"Die Firma wächst ja unter dir mit.",{"sentences":52333,"speaker":282,"num_words":50114,"start":43911,"end":44007},[52334,52336,52337],{"text":52335,"start":43911,"end":43949},"Ich hab ich hab's auch noch nie gesehen, aber die Ambitionen gibt's.",{"text":1912,"start":43953,"end":43954},{"text":52338,"start":43954,"end":44007},"Da sagt jetzt, okay, ich war jetzt ich hab jetzt 5 bis 7 Jahre irgendwie Software entwickelt.",{"sentences":52340,"speaker":405,"num_words":49869,"start":44011,"end":44022},[52341,52343],{"text":52342,"start":44011,"end":44017},"Reicht jetzt.",{"text":1912,"start":44021,"end":44022},{"sentences":52345,"speaker":282,"num_words":49944,"start":44025,"end":44052},[52346],{"text":52347,"start":44025,"end":44052},"Hier gibt's also, viele Ambitionen haben die Leute manchmal.",{"sentences":52349,"speaker":405,"num_words":50021,"start":44056,"end":44088},[52350,52352,52353],{"text":52351,"start":44056,"end":44062},"Ah, okay.",{"text":1912,"start":44065,"end":44066},{"text":52354,"start":44069,"end":44088},"Okay, dann haben wir noch was vorbereitet.",{"sentences":52356,"speaker":854,"num_words":258,"start":44091,"end":44118},[52357],{"text":52358,"start":44091,"end":44118},"Ja, ohne Absprache würde ich das gerne ersetzen.",{"sentences":52360,"speaker":405,"num_words":50021,"start":44122,"end":44155},[52361,52363],{"text":52362,"start":44122,"end":44145},"Ohne, ja, Dennis hat irgendwas anderes vorbereitet.",{"text":52364,"start":44145,"end":44155},"Das ist, okay.",{"sentences":52366,"speaker":282,"num_words":49864,"start":44158,"end":44170},[52367],{"text":52368,"start":44158,"end":44170},"Okay, ich bin gespannt.",{"sentences":52370,"speaker":405,"num_words":49853,"start":44170,"end":44187},[52371,52373],{"text":52372,"start":44170,"end":44178},"Ich auch.",{"text":52374,"start":44178,"end":44187},"Also sonst haben",{"sentences":52376,"speaker":854,"num_words":49848,"start":44187,"end":44208},[52377],{"text":52378,"start":44187,"end":44208},"wir ja immer einen eine Frau",{"sentences":52380,"speaker":405,"num_words":50241,"start":44208,"end":44238},[52381],{"text":52382,"start":44208,"end":44238},"Musik im Hintergrund, erfüllen, was Du wollen",{"sentences":52384,"speaker":854,"num_words":51173,"start":44238,"end":44500},[52385,52387,52389,52391,52393],{"text":52386,"start":44238,"end":44245},"wir nicht.",{"text":52388,"start":44245,"end":44257},"Kannst Du gerne machen.",{"text":52390,"start":44260,"end":44292},"Einen Fragenkatalog, wo wir so entweder oder Fragen stellen.",{"text":52392,"start":44292,"end":44457},"Aber bei dir würde mich jetzt und in der heutigen Zeit, wo wir jetzt Mitte 2025 sind, noch mehr interessieren, wie denn dein persönlicher Take zu AI ist und vor allen Dingen eben auch auf das, was Du tust, nämlich irgendwie, ne, überlegen, wie Tech Organisationen strukturiert sind.",{"text":52394,"start":44460,"end":44500},"Wie sehr Also was denkst Du aktuell, wie sehr wird sich das verändern?",{"sentences":52396,"speaker":854,"num_words":51371,"start":44504,"end":44689},[52397,52399],{"text":52398,"start":44504,"end":44550},"Und in welcher Geschwindigkeit, aber vielleicht also vorneweg noch so, wird sich das verändern?",{"text":52400,"start":44553,"end":44689},"Kann ja auch sein, dass Du da konträrerer Meinung bist und wenn ja, wie schnell und wie schnell wird das auf das, was Du machst im Sinne von, es braucht andere Strukturen, es braucht, ne, andere andere Ideen, eine Auswirkung haben.",{"sentences":52402,"speaker":282,"num_words":50301,"start":44692,"end":44840},[52403,52404,52406,52408,52410],{"text":1912,"start":44692,"end":44693},{"text":52405,"start":44697,"end":44724},"Also ich glaub auf jeden Fall, dass sich das verändert.",{"text":52407,"start":44724,"end":44752},"Und ich glaub, man man sieht das auch schon teilweise.",{"text":52409,"start":44756,"end":44794},"Was was halt noch, also alle nutzen ChatGPT und solche solche Lösungen.",{"text":52411,"start":44794,"end":44840},"Und was ich halt oft seh, ist, das sind halt immer noch Language Models.",{"sentences":52413,"speaker":282,"num_words":51792,"start":44844,"end":45065},[52414,52416,52418,52420,52422],{"text":52415,"start":44844,"end":44873},"Das sind keine Knowledge Models oder so was, ne.",{"text":52417,"start":44873,"end":44933},"Also das wird immer mehr in die Richtung, dass auch irgendwie logische Zusammenhänge und so was verbessert werden.",{"text":52419,"start":44933,"end":45029},"Aber das ist noch nicht auf dem Level, was ich gleichzeitig seh, dass es schon einzelne technische Lösungen gibt, die sehr viel, also ist 'n höherer Grad an Automatisierung für mich.",{"text":52421,"start":45032,"end":45045},"So seh ich das eigentlich.",{"text":52423,"start":45049,"end":45065},"Und das wird schon viel verändern.",{"sentences":52425,"speaker":282,"num_words":49975,"start":45065,"end":45378},[52426,52428,52430,52432,52434],{"text":52427,"start":45065,"end":45112},"Und es gibt ja, also ich beschäftige mich ja viel mit Start ups grade aktuell.",{"text":52429,"start":45116,"end":45197},"Und ich seh auch zum Beispiel, dass in bei Y Kombinator in den USA dafür aufgerufen wird, Native AI Unternehmen zu gründen, ja.",{"text":52431,"start":45197,"end":45238},"Also dass man sagt, okay, das muss von Grund auf alles AI basiert sein.",{"text":52433,"start":45241,"end":45339},"Und zu überlegen, okay, wie bau ich jetzt, ich glaub, das Beispiel, das Sie genannt haben, war, wie bau ich jetzt eine Anwaltskanzlei auf, die mit AR Unterstützung super arbeiten kann?",{"text":52435,"start":45343,"end":45378},"Und da sagen die, okay, das will, den wollen wir gar nicht.",{"sentences":52437,"speaker":282,"num_words":52448,"start":45378,"end":45718},[52438,52440,52442,52444,52446],{"text":52439,"start":45378,"end":45425},"Wir wollen, dass die Mitarbeiter, die die Anwaltstätigkeiten machen, dass das AI Systeme sind.",{"text":52441,"start":45428,"end":45490},"Und gar nicht mehr, dass das nur unterstützend ist, weil Und ich glaube, das geht mehr und mehr in die Richtung.",{"text":52443,"start":45490,"end":45620},"Also ich hab schon ein, 2 Tendenzen gesehen, wo es auch mehr in die Richtung geht, dass es einzelne Personen teilweise gibt, die Millionen von Umsätzen machen, dadurch, dass sie halt sehr viel automatisieren können und AI dazu auch nutzen.",{"text":52445,"start":45622,"end":45674},"Genau, das dauert eine gewisse Zeit, glaub ich, noch, bis es da wirklich so weiter etabliert ist.",{"text":52447,"start":45677,"end":45718},"Aber so, das ist der Trend und die Tendenz, die ich zumindest sehe.",105,{"sentences":52450,"speaker":282,"num_words":50404,"start":45722,"end":45875},[52451,52453],{"text":52452,"start":45722,"end":45749},"Also Teams werden kleiner, viele Sachen werden mehr automatisiert.",{"text":52454,"start":45753,"end":45875},"Die Aufgaben, die wir teilweise haben, auch teilweise in der Softwareentwicklung selber, dass Tools verwendet werden, wo man teilweise schon sagen kann, okay, das könnte auch 'n Juniorentwickler irgendwie ersetzen, dass das immer mehr und mehr kommt.",{"sentences":52456,"speaker":854,"num_words":49848,"start":45880,"end":45898},[52457],{"text":52458,"start":45880,"end":45898},"Freust Du dich auf die Zukunft?",{"sentences":52460,"speaker":282,"num_words":50021,"start":45901,"end":45933},[52461],{"text":52462,"start":45901,"end":45933},"Ja, generell eigentlich schon, aber ich Es klingt so, ich",{"sentences":52464,"speaker":405,"num_words":854,"start":45933,"end":45940},[52465],{"text":52466,"start":45933,"end":45940},"bin gespannt.",{"sentences":52468,"speaker":282,"num_words":49987,"start":45943,"end":46140},[52469,52471,52473,52475,52477],{"text":52470,"start":45943,"end":45965},"Ich bin gespannt, sagen wir mal so.",{"text":52472,"start":45965,"end":46065},"Also ich bin ich bin neugieriger Typ, aber ich ich ich hab noch 'n, ich hab jetzt, wenn ich so in die Glaskugel gucke, ist es noch schwammig für mich.",{"text":52474,"start":46065,"end":46075},"Also ist neblig.",{"text":52476,"start":46079,"end":46135},"Ich weiß, ich kann noch nicht so klar sagen, okay, das, ich würde schätzen, das wird in die Richtung gehen.",{"text":14742,"start":46139,"end":46140},{"sentences":52479,"speaker":282,"num_words":50135,"start":46140,"end":46284},[52480,52482,52483,52485],{"text":52481,"start":46140,"end":46172},"Aber ich träume mich generell schon darauf, würde ich sagen.",{"text":1912,"start":46175,"end":46176},{"text":52484,"start":46176,"end":46247},"Also ich hab bin jetzt nicht 1 von denen, die sagen würde, okay, dass ich hab jetzt Angst davor oder so was.",{"text":52486,"start":46250,"end":46284},"Ich glaub schon, dass das sehr viel Fortschritt oft bedeuten wird.",{"sentences":52488,"speaker":405,"num_words":50301,"start":46287,"end":46441},[52489,52491],{"text":52490,"start":46287,"end":46325},"Wo siehst Du denn da die die Grenzen aktuell oder perspektivisch?",{"text":52492,"start":46329,"end":46441},"Grade wenn Du schon von so früh mit dabei warst und ja wahrscheinlich doch eher bei denen mit dabei bist, die ja auch sehen, dass da am Ende viel Stochastik einfach nur hinten dran ist, ja.",{"sentences":52494,"speaker":282,"num_words":854,"start":46441,"end":46448},[52495,52496],{"text":1113,"start":46441,"end":46444},{"text":668,"start":46444,"end":46448},{"sentences":52498,"speaker":405,"num_words":50050,"start":46448,"end":46557},[52499,52501,52503],{"text":52500,"start":46448,"end":46492},"und und kein Wissen und logisches Denken, zumindest so, wie's aktuell funktioniert.",{"text":52502,"start":46495,"end":46539},"Gibt es da für dich sone sone natürlich sone Glasgrenze, die wir irgendwann erreichen?",{"text":52504,"start":46539,"end":46557},"Oder oder wie siehst Du das?",{"sentences":52506,"speaker":282,"num_words":50563,"start":46560,"end":46830},[52507,52509,52511,52513,52515],{"text":52508,"start":46560,"end":46625},"Also es gibt ja viele Tools, die so im kreativen Bereich eingesetzt werden, ne, Bilder zu generieren und all so.",{"text":52510,"start":46625,"end":46680},"Und alle haben gedacht, okay, der kreative Bereich, der wird eigentlich krass dadurch beeinflusst und attackiert.",{"text":52512,"start":46684,"end":46731},"Und einerseits stimmt das, aber echte Kreativität ist dann noch mal irgendwie was anderes.",{"text":52514,"start":46731,"end":46796},"Echte echte Ideen und Innovationskraft irgendwie zu haben, da das seh ich noch nicht so richtig bei den AI Systemen.",{"text":52516,"start":46800,"end":46830},"Da weiß ich auch nicht, ob die das erreichen können.",{"sentences":52518,"speaker":282,"num_words":49848,"start":46833,"end":46852},[52519,52521],{"text":52520,"start":46833,"end":46849},"Das sucht mein Gedanke dazu.",{"text":1113,"start":46851,"end":46852},{"sentences":52523,"speaker":405,"num_words":50008,"start":46856,"end":46919},[52524,52525,52526,52528],{"text":1912,"start":46856,"end":46857},{"text":46865,"start":46862,"end":46863},{"text":52527,"start":46867,"end":46884},"Hast Du noch mehr Fragen denn?",{"text":52529,"start":46884,"end":46919},"Es ist klein so, als hättest Du sonen Fragenkatalog dabei.",{"sentences":52531,"speaker":282,"num_words":282,"start":46919,"end":46922},[52532],{"text":46925,"start":46919,"end":46922},{"sentences":52534,"speaker":854,"num_words":51818,"start":46922,"end":46968},[52535,52537],{"text":52536,"start":46922,"end":46931},"Ach so.",{"text":52538,"start":46931,"end":46968},"Ich hab einfach nur den den anderen ersetzt durch diese eine Frage.",{"sentences":52540,"speaker":405,"num_words":854,"start":46968,"end":46977},[52541],{"text":52542,"start":46968,"end":46977},"Ah, eisi.",{"sentences":52544,"speaker":282,"num_words":854,"start":46981,"end":46987},[52545,52546],{"text":46985,"start":46981,"end":46982},{"text":1917,"start":46982,"end":46987},{"sentences":52548,"speaker":854,"num_words":854,"start":46990,"end":46995},[52549,52550],{"text":1912,"start":46990,"end":46991},{"text":7839,"start":46991,"end":46995},{"sentences":52552,"speaker":405,"num_words":49944,"start":46998,"end":47024},[52553],{"text":52554,"start":46998,"end":47024},"Dann sind wir, glaub ich, durch für heute schon.",{"sentences":52556,"speaker":854,"num_words":51818,"start":47027,"end":47070},[52557],{"text":52558,"start":47027,"end":47070},"Ja, außer Du willst die anderen 2 klassischen Fragen, die hab ich natürlich noch.",{"sentences":52560,"speaker":405,"num_words":49848,"start":47070,"end":47090},[52561],{"text":52562,"start":47070,"end":47090},"Ja, die kannst Du auch raushauen.",{"sentences":52564,"speaker":854,"num_words":52573,"start":47090,"end":47399},[52565,52567,52569,52571],{"text":52566,"start":47090,"end":47108},"Die kann ich auch rauchen.",{"text":52568,"start":47108,"end":47247},"Okay, die erste ist, wenn Du jetzt zurückreihst, ich mein, Du hast ja 'n durchaus spannenden Lebenslauf und hier die ein oder anderen Pivot son bisschen gemacht mit Ausbildung und Studium und jetzt dem dem Coaching und dem Weiterbringen von anderen.",{"text":52570,"start":47251,"end":47311},"Wenn Du zurückreisen könntest, vielleicht nicht ganz in die Kommodore Zeit, aber doch irgendwie an an am Anfang.",{"text":52572,"start":47314,"end":47399},"Gibt's da was, was Du dir ins Ohr flüstern würdest und wo Du so mit der Erfahrung, die Du heute hast, irgendwie was auf jeden Fall anders machen würdest?",93,{"sentences":52575,"speaker":282,"num_words":50468,"start":47402,"end":47587},[52576,52578,52579,52581,52583],{"text":52577,"start":47402,"end":47477},"Also ich hätte wahrscheinlich früher angefangen, in die Selbstständigkeit, also das würd ich mir sagen, fang früher an, in die Selbstständigkeit zu gehen.",{"text":1113,"start":47480,"end":47481},{"text":52580,"start":47484,"end":47541},"Also bei mir war das so, ich hatte schon eigentlich immer so den Wunsch irgendwie, selbstständig zu arbeiten.",{"text":52582,"start":47544,"end":47573},"Ich glaube, das hätt ich früher locker auch stemmen können.",{"text":52584,"start":47576,"end":47587},"So 5 Jahre früher beispielsweise.",{"sentences":52586,"speaker":282,"num_words":258,"start":47590,"end":47615},[52587],{"text":52588,"start":47590,"end":47615},"Das das hätte, glaub ich, mehr Sinn gemacht.",{"sentences":52590,"speaker":405,"num_words":49841,"start":47617,"end":47691},[52591,52593],{"text":52592,"start":47617,"end":47652},"Was waren damals so die Bedenken, die dich davon abgehalten haben?",{"text":52594,"start":47652,"end":47691},"Oder war's einfach nicht auf deinem Schirm, dass das eine Option ist?",{"sentences":52596,"speaker":282,"num_words":51219,"start":47694,"end":48044},[52597,52599,52601,52603,52605],{"text":52598,"start":47694,"end":47765},"Das war's schon auf meinem Schirm, aber ich weiß nicht, es gibt halt so gewisse Ängste und Sicherheitsgefühle, wo man sagt, okay.",{"text":52600,"start":47768,"end":47834},"Und außerdem hat man hat hatt ich auch immer einigermaßen gute Jobs, wo ich dann gedacht hab, ich komm dann auch immer weiter.",{"text":52602,"start":47837,"end":47897},"Aber ist es noch mal was anderes, wenn man selber wirklich frei entscheiden kann, Sachen so zu gestalten, wie man möchte?",{"text":52604,"start":47901,"end":47921},"Das ist noch mal was ganz anderes.",{"text":52606,"start":47921,"end":48044},"Sogar wenn Du wenn Du irgendwie im Ziellevel aufm, in 'nem Unternehmen, 'n Start-up bist und von mir aus bist Du auch Gesellschafter, hast Du trotzdem immer 'n Rahmen, wo Du dich mit anderen Leuten absprechen musst?",{"sentences":52608,"speaker":405,"num_words":49853,"start":48044,"end":48062},[52609],{"text":52610,"start":48044,"end":48062},"Ja, meistens heißt der Gesellschafterbetrag.",{"sentences":52612,"speaker":282,"num_words":52620,"start":48066,"end":48193},[52613,52614,52616,52617,52618],{"text":14742,"start":48066,"end":48067},{"text":52615,"start":48067,"end":48121},"Und das ist halt das ist halt, in gewissen Situationen hab ich mich da immer limitiert gefühlt.",{"text":1113,"start":48125,"end":48126},{"text":14742,"start":48130,"end":48131},{"text":52619,"start":48135,"end":48193},"Deswegen war, ist mein mein, würde ich meinem jüngeren Ich sagen, mach das ruhig früher, trau dich ruhig.",38,{"sentences":52622,"speaker":282,"num_words":49841,"start":48193,"end":48272},[52623],{"text":52624,"start":48193,"end":48272},"Ist ja okay, wenn Du auf die auf die Schnauze fällst damit, dann steht immer wieder auf und macht's halt noch mal besser.",{"sentences":52626,"speaker":405,"num_words":49848,"start":48275,"end":48294},[52627],{"text":52628,"start":48275,"end":48294},"Das, glaub ich, eine gute Einstellung.",{"sentences":52630,"speaker":854,"num_words":52635,"start":48298,"end":48406},[52631,52633],{"text":52632,"start":48298,"end":48353},"Und die andere Frage, die wir gerne stellen, welche Frage wärst Du, hätten wir dir noch stellen sollen?",{"text":52634,"start":48357,"end":48406},"Also was was bist Du nicht gefragt worden und hättest Du trotzdem gerne geteilt in dem Podcast?",35,{"sentences":52637,"speaker":282,"num_words":52648,"start":48410,"end":48684},[52638,52640,52642,52644,52646],{"text":52639,"start":48410,"end":48471},"Also ich glaub, die Frage hättet ihr nicht stellen können, aber das hatt ich im Kopf, aber ich hab's nicht erzählt.",{"text":52641,"start":48474,"end":48599},"Und zwar, was mich damals so gefreckt hat und auch beeinflusst hat, war, dass ich wirklich diese ersten 3 Geschäftsführer, die ich hatte, dass sie nicht nur irgendwie mir technisch und thematisch Sachen gut beigebracht haben, sondern auch das Zwischenmenschliche.",{"text":52643,"start":48603,"end":48616},"Also wie wir zusammengearbeitet haben.",{"text":52645,"start":48616,"end":48657},"Wir haben zum Beispiel, also 2005 hab ich angefangen, mit denen zu arbeiten.",{"text":52647,"start":48657,"end":48684},"Und wir waren damals schon irgendwann im Remote Setup.",88,{"sentences":52650,"speaker":282,"num_words":50114,"start":48684,"end":48788},[52651,52653,52655,52657,52659],{"text":52652,"start":48684,"end":48709},"Das heißt, die haben mir voll vertraut.",{"text":52654,"start":48709,"end":48733},"Die haben gesagt, mach, was Du willst.",{"text":52656,"start":48733,"end":48745},"Hier ist das Projekt.",{"text":52658,"start":48745,"end":48761},"Bau das, wie Du möchtest.",{"text":52660,"start":48761,"end":48788},"Montags haben wir uns zum Frühstück getroffen.",{"sentences":52662,"speaker":282,"num_words":50066,"start":48788,"end":48995},[52663,52665,52667,52669,52671],{"text":52664,"start":48788,"end":48807},"Ich hab die Brüche mitgebracht.",{"text":52666,"start":48807,"end":48822},"Wir haben's dann gefrühstückt.",{"text":52668,"start":48826,"end":48846},"Und dann war das, das war sehr familiär.",{"text":52670,"start":48850,"end":48911},"Und das ist, glaub ich, so etwas, was großen Einfluss darauf hat, wie man sich entwickelt, wie man lernt.",{"text":52672,"start":48914,"end":48995},"Und was noch zusätzlich hinzukommt, die waren halt, ich hab die halt irgendwann dabei erwischt, dass sie in der Pause 3 live gespielt haben.",{"sentences":52674,"speaker":282,"num_words":50085,"start":48998,"end":49046},[52675,52677],{"text":52676,"start":48998,"end":49023},"Und ich wusste das nicht, dass sie auch spielen.",{"text":52678,"start":49027,"end":49046},"Und da dacht ich mir, okay, cool.",{"sentences":52680,"speaker":854,"num_words":49864,"start":49049,"end":49061},[52681],{"text":52682,"start":49049,"end":49061},"Ja, ja, ist cool.",{"sentences":52684,"speaker":405,"num_words":49957,"start":49064,"end":49354},[52685,52687],{"text":52686,"start":49064,"end":49122},"Ja, das glaub ich, glaub ich, bei so jedem Lebensabschnitt ist irgendwie entscheidend mehr da mitmachen, ne.",{"text":52688,"start":49122,"end":49354},"Ich glaub, bei bei Kindern so, dein dein erster Lehrer, Lehrerin, was auch immer, ist irgendwie super ausschlaggebend, wenn Du jemanden hast, der dich fördert und aufbaut oder so, ja, an der an der Schule, wenn Du irgendwie 'n coolen Dozent oder 'n coolen Tutor hast oder an der Uni dann später und halt grade dann auch irgendwie im ersten Job da steht und fällt irgendwie so viel damit.",{"sentences":52690,"speaker":282,"num_words":49858,"start":49357,"end":49398},[52691],{"text":52692,"start":49357,"end":49398},"Ja, man unterschätzt das oft und man sieht das erst im Nachhinein dann auch erst.",{"sentences":52694,"speaker":854,"num_words":49853,"start":49402,"end":49418},[52695,52696,52698],{"text":1912,"start":49402,"end":49403},{"text":52697,"start":49407,"end":49414},"Das ist richtig.",{"text":856,"start":49417,"end":49418},{"sentences":52700,"speaker":405,"num_words":49858,"start":49421,"end":49469},[52701,52702],{"text":1912,"start":49421,"end":49422},{"text":52703,"start":49426,"end":49469},"Dann 1000 Dank, Perman, dass Du dir die Zeit genommen hast für uns heute.",{"sentences":52705,"speaker":282,"num_words":49869,"start":49472,"end":49480},[52706],{"text":52707,"start":49472,"end":49480},"Ich hab's dann.",{"sentences":52709,"speaker":405,"num_words":51745,"start":49480,"end":49678},[52710,52712,52714,52715,52717],{"text":52711,"start":49480,"end":49493},"Sehr interessantes Gespräch.",{"text":52713,"start":49497,"end":49522},"1000 Dank Dennis, dass Du mit dabei warst.",{"text":49528,"start":49522,"end":49526},{"text":52716,"start":49526,"end":49557},"1000 Dank an alle, die da draußen zugehört haben.",{"text":52718,"start":49557,"end":49678},"Wenn ihr Fragen, Anregungen, Kritik, was auch immer habt, dann immer gerne an Podcast at Programmier Punkt bar oder gerne auf LinkedIn, Mastodon, Blues Guy, Instagram, wo auch immer ihr uns findet, Youtube.",{"sentences":52720,"speaker":405,"num_words":49911,"start":49682,"end":49743},[52721],{"text":52722,"start":49682,"end":49743},"Wir sind überall, lesen alles mit und freuen uns auf eure Kommentare und freuen uns auf die nächste Folge.",{"sentences":52724,"speaker":854,"num_words":854,"start":49747,"end":49754},[52725],{"text":52726,"start":49747,"end":49754},"Bis schön.",{"sentences":52728,"speaker":405,"num_words":50021,"start":49754,"end":49795},[52729,52731,52733,52734,52736],{"text":52730,"start":49754,"end":49762},"Bis dahin.",{"text":52732,"start":49766,"end":49771},"Tschau, tschau.",{"text":49778,"start":49771,"end":49775},{"text":52735,"start":49775,"end":49787},"Und bis bald.",{"text":52737,"start":49787,"end":49795},"Macht's gut.",{"sentences":52739,"speaker":405,"num_words":854,"start":49795,"end":49803},[52740],{"text":52741,"start":49795,"end":49803},"Danke, Peymane.",{"sentences":52743,"speaker":282,"num_words":854,"start":49807,"end":49812},[52744],{"text":52732,"start":49807,"end":49812},[52746,52813,52834,52861,52872,52881,52950,52962,52966,53026,53037,53065,53069,53105,53116,53124,53139,53151,53171,53180,53280,53325,53465,53493,53497,53517,53542,53553,53565,53586,53609,53613,53652,53676,53700,53722,53731,53753,53773,53803,53820,53831,53858,53913,53921,53928,53935,53946,53965,54014,54018,54047,54054,54091,54098,54117,54135,54168,54182,54230,54245,54268,54335,54352,54359,54403,54439,54464,54479,54488,54504,54522,54534,54562,54579,54601,54609,54613,54623,54635,54645,54656,54660,54664,54672,54718,54726,54734,54742,54767,54776,54783,54800,54813,54844,54861,54870,54892,54896,54900,54950,54975,54995,55004,55022,55049,55057,55066,55080,55148,55152,55187,55203,55207,55211,55220,55238,55281,55290,55302,55306,55320,55342,55353,55393,55409,55413,55440,55448,55465,55481,55491,55500,55520,55544,55555,55559,55588,55620,55642,55646,55655,55700,55734,55766,55786,55797,55806,55840,55844,55857,55875,55916,55930,55957,55967,55975,55990,55997,56010,56017,56048,56056,56068,56090,56114,56127,56165,56183,56196,56211,56219,56268,56285,56299,56303,56333,56347,56366,56372,56390,56394,56402,56406,56507,56515,56529,56541,56567,56598,56614,56618,56634,56658,56682,56686,56696,56710,56714,56767,56785,56820,56842,56873,56928,56937,56949,56953,56969,56973,56983,56992,57010,57032,57036,57040,57049,57089,57111,57125,57138,57146,57156,57164,57171,57179,57213,57240,57253,57257,57281,57285,57298,57317,57331,57348,57355,57363,57392,57418,57497,57511,57530,57555,57565,57581,57588,57610,57629,57664,57712,57732,57736,57749,57774,57791,57795,57811,57823,57827,57836,57854,57861,57887,57895,57910,57926,57948,57962,57973,57984,57988,57992,58000,58032,58059,58072,58087,58091,58106,58144,58181,58232,58244,58257,58265,58273,58277,58297,58301,58315,58334,58350,58374,58409,58421,58437,58444,58475,58488,58496,58503,58515,58519,58541,58549,58559,58584,58602,58613,58635,58644,58658,58667,58691,58695,58704,58715,58725,58735,58752,58761,58799,58830,58854,58881,58892,58901,58920,58953,58961,58968,58975,58991,58999,59003,59007,59011,59053,59075,59087,59097,59112,59122,59153,59157,59183,59194,59237,59241,59245,59256,59267,59279,59286,59290,59322,59330,59341,59360,59369,59373,59384,59394,59404,59412,59457,59470,59481,59488,59536,59545,59556,59579,59592,59600,59615,59635,59652,59680,59692,59721,59744,59751,59762,59769,59778,59799,59809,59821,59842,59860,59870,59879,59883,59897,59910,59930,59974,60000,60007,60020,60027,60059,60079,60086,60106,60115,60132,60153,60191,60208,60232,60250,60263,60276,60294,60298,60311,60324,60345,60349,60353,60368,60390,60413,60454,60494,60509,60534,60549,60621,60643,60656,60660,60664,60668,60690,60702,60733,60743,60762,60766,60785,60821,60842,60846,60864,60875,60883,60891,60895,60904,60914,60935,60961,60965,60986,60992,61024,61044,61075,61104,61113,61124,61148,61164,61190,61194,61198,61225,61229,61236,61264,61286,61290,61298,61306,61329,61352,61364,61384,61421,61425,61450,61477,61528,61535,61539,61569,61588,61598,61616,61624,61662,61689,61715,61724,61734,61741,61759,61783,61809,61828,61859,61878,61890,61900,61904,61925,61939,61943,61980,62063,62089,62111,62133,62140,62165,62181,62205,62226,62245,62249,62279,62290,62294,62309,62342,62359,62380,62384,62392,62406,62431,62466,62490,62498,62517,62552,62563,62567,62576,62596,62618,62635,62650,62664,62668,62686,62698,62709,62726,62733,62749,62760,62768,62772,62792,62805,62812,62820,62843,62877,62890,62909,62927,62939,62951,62964,62979,62996,63006,63010,63021,63029,63050,63059,63091,63099,63112,63145,63180,63233,63273,63280,63307,63311,63319,63333,63350,63359,63378,63411,63420,63424,63442,63455,63485,63500,63510,63524,63531,63550,63563,63585,63608,63660,63673,63692,63712,63742,63754,63758,63762,63825,63838,63859,63873,63887,63901,63912,63939,63951,63955,63976,63988,64000,64004,64040,64048,64064,64068,64072,64098,64113,64155,64187,64195,64229,64250,64265,64272,64295,64304,64318,64342,64351,64361,64381,64420,64429,64465,64475,64523,64535,64553,64561,64585,64612,64623,64666,64690,64705,64722,64730,64765,64779,64795,64821,64858,64874,64878,64908,64979,64992,64998,65005,65024,65036,65060,65069,65073,65080,65091,65098,65131,65140,65157,65169,65176,65186,65190,65204,65208,65242,65250,65257,65286,65303,65312,65343,65353,65357,65368,65395,65411,65448,65462,65492,65513,65588,65592,65600,65609,65639,65653,65659,65685,65707,65726,65751,65777,65797,65857,65869,65876,65880,65916,65950,65975,66047,66051,66060,66069,66161,66180,66203,66251,66265,66293,66332,66341,66358,66368,66382,66400,66434,66442,66469,66479,66486,66493,66505,66513,66564,66649,66663,66678,66700,66724,66735,66758,66801,66822,66826,66855,66859,66875,66889,66893,66911,66915,66926,66947,66968,66983,67016,67039,67067,67091,67106,67124,67128,67170,67245,67271,67312,67332,67343,67356,67367,67387,67395,67409,67421,67425,67434,67441,67483,67515,67528,67545,67575,67585,67602,67622,67651,67690,67694,6770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und herzlich willkommen zu einem neuen CTO Special, das wir auch lange nicht mehr hatten in der Programmier. Ich bin grade auf dem ganz falschen Fuß aufgestanden und weiß gar nicht mehr, wann das Letzte war, aber es ist auf alle Fälle schon 'n bisschen her. Das war mit Katrin, das war, glaub ich, die Nummer 30 oder 31 oder 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