[{"data":1,"prerenderedAt":79480},["ShallowReactive",2],{"/podcast/cto-special-34-moritz-buhl-von-buhl-data":3},{"podcast":4,"pickOfTheDayCount":104,"speakerCount":105,"relatedPodcasts":106,"transcript":107},{"id":5,"published_on":6,"type":7,"number":8,"title":9,"slug":10,"description":11,"transcript":12,"audio_url":13,"apple_url":12,"google_url":12,"spotify_url":12,"cover_image":14,"banner_image":26,"speakers":36,"members":65,"picks_of_the_day":99,"tags":100,"tagsPrepared":101,"speakersPrepared":102},"f678a212-074d-4c1e-a9a9-319688c7e934","2025-09-23T04:00:00.000Z","cto_special","#34","Moritz Buhl von Buhl Data","cto-special-34-moritz-buhl-von-buhl-data","\u003Cp>Ein Familienunternehmen aus Deutschland, das als Tech-Unternehmen schon fast 40 Jahre alt ist? Genau das ist Buhl Data. In dieser Folge sprechen wir mit Moritz Buhl, der das Familienunternehmen bereits in zweiter Generation führt.\u003C/p>\n\u003Cp>Bekannt ist es vor allem für seine Software für Steuererklärungen und Finanzverwaltung. Buhl entwickelt aber auch ganz andere Produkte und hat mal als Druckerei begonnen! Mit Moritz sprechen wir darüber, ob sein Einstieg in den Familienbetrieb mit hunderten Mitarbeitenden vorgezeichnet war. Wir diskutieren die Vorteile und Verantwortung eines solchen Settings und wie Moritz seinen eigenen Weg gefunden hat.\u003C/p>\n\u003Cp>Außerdem geht es um die Herausforderung, eine so umfangreiche, weit verbreitete und kritische Software über Jahrzehnte hinweg zuverlässig weiterzuentwickeln. Wir klären die Frage, wann neue Produkte besser in einem Start-up entstehen – und wann Inhouse-Entwicklungen vielleicht doch die bessere Wahl sind.\u003C/p>",null,"https://www.buzzsprout.com/176239/episodes/17860644-cto-special-34-moritz-buhl-von-buhl-data.mp3",{"id":15,"title":16,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":17,"filename_download":18,"metadata":19,"type":20,"filesize":21,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":22,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":23,"uploaded_on":24,"folder":12,"width":25,"height":25,"charset":12,"duration":12},"e0fb908e-cc58-4515-af51-ae0f103dae8d","Cto34 Moritz Buhl","e0fb908e-cc58-4515-af51-ae0f103dae8d.png","cto34_Moritz Buhl.png",{},"image/png","2709736","2025-09-17T14:42:46.072Z","11a655b6-bcfc-4c6c-a13c-68189e38edb9","2025-09-17T14:42:46.068Z",1500,{"id":27,"title":28,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":29,"filename_download":30,"metadata":31,"type":20,"filesize":32,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":33,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":23,"uploaded_on":34,"folder":12,"width":35,"height":35,"charset":12,"duration":12},"89ebedfa-a20d-4839-b54a-b5cae39bf275","Moritz Buhl Profile","89ebedfa-a20d-4839-b54a-b5cae39bf275.png","Moritz Buhl_profile.png",{},"1029248","2025-09-17T14:43:33.847Z","2025-09-17T14:43:33.844Z",1024,[37],{"speaker":38},{"id":39,"slug":40,"academic_title":12,"occupation":41,"first_name":42,"last_name":43,"description":44,"event_image":45,"profile_image":56},"70cb2cba-3a41-401f-80a0-c0fd7189bb38","moritz-buhl","Geschäftsführer der Buhl Data Service GmbH","Moritz","Buhl","\u003Cp>Moritz Buhl ist Alleingesellschafter und Geschäftsführer der Buhl Data Service GmbH, dem größten inhabergeführten Softwareunternehmen Deutschlands. In zweiter Generation treibt er die Weiterentwicklung des Unternehmens mit einem klaren Fokus auf digitale Lösungen für Privat- und Geschäftskunden voran – von Produkten wie WISO Steuer bis hin zu neuen Angeboten wie Billbob für Solo-Selbstständige. Dabei verbindet er unternehmerische Weitsicht mit technologischem Know-how und einem tiefen Verständnis für die Bedürfnisse seiner Zielgruppen.\u003C/p>",{"id":46,"title":47,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":48,"filename_download":49,"metadata":50,"type":51,"filesize":52,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":53,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":23,"uploaded_on":54,"folder":12,"width":55,"height":35,"charset":12,"duration":12},"1edcdf7e-d51c-4ab2-b567-e63e29881543","Moritz Buhl Event","1edcdf7e-d51c-4ab2-b567-e63e29881543.jpg","Moritz Buhl_event.jpg",{},"image/jpeg","1036958","2025-09-17T14:41:48.775Z","2025-09-17T14:41:48.771Z",1536,{"id":57,"title":58,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":59,"filename_download":60,"metadata":61,"type":20,"filesize":62,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":63,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":23,"uploaded_on":64,"folder":12,"width":35,"height":35,"charset":12,"duration":12},"51e9eb96-169f-4722-a097-e668ee9f2f00","Moritz Buhl Speaker Profile","51e9eb96-169f-4722-a097-e668ee9f2f00.png","Moritz Buhl_speaker_profile.png",{},"1792898","2025-09-17T14:41:40.526Z","2025-09-17T14:41:40.523Z",[66,83],{"member":67},{"id":68,"first_name":69,"last_name":70,"occupation":71,"description":72,"normal_image":73},"47099351-508c-44d9-a2a2-855181c72ee8","Jan Gregor","Emge-Triebel","// programmier.bar Tech Community Lead // Podcast-Host","\u003Cp>Jan ist ein echter Technik-Fan mit einer facettenreichen Karriere, die sich über Web-, Mobile-App-Entwicklung und DevOps erstreckt. Dank seiner vielfältigen Rollen – vom Entwickler über den Teamleiter bis hin zum Vice President Development – verfügt Jan über einen großen Erfahrungsschatz in der Softwareentwicklung und Developer Advocacy.\u003Cbr>Seine Leidenschaften jenseits der Technik reichen von Tauchgängen an exotischen Orten über das Eintauchen in digitale wie analoge Spiele bis hin zum Abtauchen in gelungene Plot-Twists in Büchern und Filmen.\u003C/p>",{"id":74,"title":75,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":76,"filename_download":77,"metadata":78,"type":51,"filesize":79,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":80,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":81,"uploaded_on":82,"folder":12,"width":35,"height":35,"charset":12,"duration":12},"ef7c0ccb-a2b5-48a0-8261-c8bbfffd917b","Jan CD","ef7c0ccb-a2b5-48a0-8261-c8bbfffd917b.jpg","Jan_CD.jpg",{},"649400","2024-07-26T09:26:17.846Z","e97179d2-51b3-4deb-828f-9524091441f5","2024-07-26T09:26:17.710Z",{"member":84},{"id":85,"first_name":86,"last_name":87,"occupation":88,"description":89,"normal_image":90},"ff2b7fcd-803f-4bcb-88d4-4f36636c7d6a","Fabi","Fink","// Podcast-Host","\u003Cp>Es ist eher dem Zufall zuzuschreiben, dass Fabi zum Full Stack Developer wurde. Mit Anfängen als Product Owner und Software-Architekt, hatte er zwischenzeitig seine Passion als Coding Wizard gefunden. Heute fungiert er als Product Manager bei Lotum.\u003Cbr>Als Frontsänger mehrerer Bandprojekte fehlt Fabi manchmal die große Bühne im Alltag. Das ist vor allem dann spürbar, wenn er im Podcast auch mal ungefragt seinen Expertisen-Senf dazugibt. Im Gegenzug ist er der Einzige in der Runde, der den Pick of the Day wirklich ernst nimmt.\u003C/p>",{"id":91,"title":92,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":93,"filename_download":94,"metadata":95,"type":51,"filesize":96,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":97,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":81,"uploaded_on":98,"folder":12,"width":35,"height":35,"charset":12,"duration":12},"56cc12dd-4672-4db0-850f-7ad37b68ca86","Fabi CD","56cc12dd-4672-4db0-850f-7ad37b68ca86.jpg","Fabi_CD.jpg",{},"583732","2024-07-29T11:46:00.241Z","2024-07-29T11:46:00.135Z",[],[],[],[103],{"first_name":42,"last_name":43,"profile_image":56,"slug":40,"description":44,"event_image":45,"academic_title":12},461,191,[],{"id":108,"service":109,"supported_features":110,"speakers":113,"raw_response":121},"ebb48375-b9bd-4a45-a2fb-07c2ae267899","deepgram",[111,112],"timestamps","diarization",[114,117,119],{"identifier":115,"name":116},"0","Jan",{"identifier":118,"name":86},"1",{"identifier":120,"name":42},"2",{"metadata":122,"results":136},{"transaction_key":123,"request_id":124,"sha256":125,"created":126,"duration":127,"channels":128,"models":129,"model_info":131},"deprecated","ce3b4398-7fd0-4dc0-b5b4-ffb1796301ad","e41adb78a6bf03e1c0ddd6c8c1c9c5f5fef4fa7cd05c701ca3cf9abee5abead9","2025-09-15T13:25:09.625Z",5389.285,1,[130],"91f8eabe-2126-4ed4-9e56-d480032309b3",{"91f8eabe-2126-4ed4-9e56-d480032309b3":132},{"name":133,"version":134,"arch":135},"2-general-nova","2024-05-09.3071","nova-2",{"channels":137,"utterances":58360},[138],{"alternatives":139},[140],{"transcript":141,"confidence":142,"words":143,"paragraphs":55616},"Hallo und herzlich willkommen zu einem neuen CTO Special in der Programmierbar. Heute schon das, oh je, ich weiß jetzt gar nicht, ich hab gar nicht drauf, bevor Sechsunddreißigste oder so was. Irgendwas in der Richtung vielleicht? Ja, auf alle Fälle über 30 und unter 40 irgendwo dazwischen sind wir. Das ist ja auch 'n gutes Alter immer, ne. Ja. Fühl ich mich auch wohl mit. Aber ich glaube, es grenzt so langsam an Verpackungsbetrug, was wir hier machen. Ich hab nämlich eben mal nachgeschaut, dass es wieder ein CTO Special mit jemandem zu Gast, der offiziell zumindest gar keinen CTO Titel hat und das schon zum, ich glaub, vierten Mal in Folge jetzt. Also wir müssen uns 'n neues Naming überlegen, Fabi, für dieses Format. Das C-Special. Das CTO Special. Das Irgendwas mit C beginnt, wo das auch hier, ja. Ja. Oder wir haben heute zu Gast im Podcast bei uns den Moritz Buhl. Hallo Moritz, schön, dass Du Zeit für uns hast. Hi, schön, dass ich bei euch sein darf. Wunderbar. Ich hoffe, Du fühlst dich nicht unter dem Wertverkauf, wenn wir jetzt gesagt haben, das ist gar kein echtes CTO Special, so war das überhaupt gar nicht gemeint. Wir sind ja immer froh und happy damit, wenn Leute mit uns reden, die son bisschen anderen Blickwinkel auf Software und Softwareentwicklung, das ganze Ökosystem haben, auf Produktentwicklung und freuen uns eigentlich immer, wenn Leute aus, wie Fabi grade gesagt hat, so, Sea Level Führungsebene, Leadership zu uns kommen und mit uns 'n bisschen quatschen. Also ich fühl mich überhaupt nicht unter Wert verkauft, ganz im Gegenteil. Ich Das t in dem CDO hat mir ja im Vorfeld eher Angst gemacht. Insofern bin ich heilfroh, dass Du das auch direkt direkt so korrekt anmoderiert hast, nicht, dass die Erwartungshaltung hier eine Falsche ist. Aber dafür kann ich glänzen mit der guten Zahl zwischen 30 und 40. Das persönlich ganz gut zu meinem Alter auch. Wunder, wunderbar. Bevor wir über Leadership und und Firmen und alles sprechen, Moritz, erzähl uns doch mal, was hat so eigentlich dein Interesse an an Computer und und und Software geweckt? Gab's da so diesen einen Moment, an den Du dich irgendwie zurückerinnern kannst, wo Du das pinpointen kannst? Oder ist das was, was dich so ganz organisch anderweitig ergeben hat oder erst sehr spät? Wie wie war das bei dir? Ja, es ist mir insofern ein bisschen in die Wiege gelegt. Tatsächlich sind wir etwas als Unternehmen, wir sind etwas, glaub ich, Besonderes, was es so häufig in Deutschland nicht gibt. Wir sind ein Software Familienunternehmen. Normalerweise gibt's entweder Familienunternehmen oder Softwareunternehmen. Beides ist, glaub ich, recht selten und ich bin zweite Generation jetzt tatsächlich. Mein Vater hat das Unternehmen gegründet und ich bin mittlerweile jetzt seit 2019 in der Geschäftsführung, auch seit einigen Jahren allein im Sinne von, dass mein Vater mittlerweile in Rente ist. Und insofern bin ich mit dem Thema Software immer schon aufgewachsen. Ich bin allerdings auch überhaupt kein Techy, aber war immer schon super softwarinteressiert. Damals war das immer so, wir haben als wohl Dataservice, wir haben zum großen Teil von den Testberichten gelebt, die so in den ganzen PC Magazinen immer da waren. Und dann gab's irgendwie gefühlt wöchentlich kamen immer so 2, 3 Hefte mit nach Hause, die mein Vater dann immer an mich weitergereicht hat. Und ich hab die eigentlich alle verschlungen. Und das waren so meine ersten Berührungspunkte. Vielleicht nicht so sehr mit Programmieren, wie das wahrscheinlich bei vielen anderen, die hier im Podcast sind, der Fall ist, sondern sehr stark mit, was die Software eigentlich selbst angeht, was was UX angeht, was die Funktionalität selbst angeht. Wie gewinnt man Testsieg? Was passiert, wenn man doch mal leider nur Zweiter ist? Das waren eigentlich so die Themen, mit denen ich aufgewachsen bin. Und deswegen war ich immer schon an der Software dran, aber wahrscheinlich 'n bisschen über einen ungewöhnlichen Weg. Ich find das superspannend, weil Du's ja auch eben grade gesagt hast, ne, es gibt in Deutschland Softwarefirmen und so Familienbetrieb, aber irgendwie nicht so beides zusammen. Ich glaube tatsächlich, Moritz Buhrl, Data ist die erste Firma, die wir hier oder ne, die erste Firma, über die wir hier so sprechen, die älter ist als wir. Kann das sein? Oder ich lehm mich mal weit ausm Headset, ich hab gar nicht auf Kopf, Fabi, was so dein Jahrgang ist. Aber Buhrl ist auf alle Fälle älter als ich. Gut, dann demnächst auch älter als ich, weil ich bin jünger als Du, aber ob jetzt, wie alt alle anderen Firmen waren? Du, ich kann dir in der Historie kann ich jetzt nicht so genau zurückblicken, aber Es gibt vielleicht so Otto und die Bahn. So, das sind vielleicht so, aber die sind ja keine keine klassischen Softwarunternehmen, ne. Die sind da ja so, ich sag mal, reingestolpert, aber aber BUELL ist ja, also Softwareunternehmen von Anfang an eigentlich gewesen. Ja. Und vielleicht hatten wir doch nicht. Das, ja, das definitiv nicht. Aber vielleicht können wir ja, das haben wir, glaub ich, am Anfang jetzt auch gar nicht so ins Detail reingegangen. Gut, dass wir schon mal verstanden haben, wie Du grundsätzlich zur Software kamst. Aber vielleicht, Moritz, kannst Du noch mal 1, 2 Sätze für die da draußen, die den Bool dann doch kein Begriff sein sollte, erzählen, was genau Bool ist und was denn eure Software ist, die ihr die ihr hauptsächlich Entwickler, mit der ihr bekannt geworden seid. Ja, genau. Also im Vergleich zu Otto und der Deutschen Bahn sind wir wahrscheinlich doch eher nur Teenager, aber wir feiern als Unternehmen tatsächlich nächstes Jahr Vierzigjähriges. Wir sind aber nicht immer, ich sag mal, ein ein klassisches Softwareunternehmen, Softwarehaus gewesen. Tatsächlich haben wir am Anfang sehr auf Softwarevertrieb fokussiert, haben auch früher viel Microsoft Geschäft gehabt. Das heißt, wir waren eigentlich der Microsoft Vertriebspartner für den ganzen Emir Raum gewesen. Das heißt, wenn ihr irgendwie eine Windows CD euch besorgt habt inklusive Echtheitszertifikat, dann kam die über uns. Insofern, wir waren jetzt anfangs zugegebenermaßen vor 40 Jahren auch nicht das reinrassige Softwareunternehmen. Aber wenn Du so willst, waren wir immer irgendwo ja softwaregetrieben. Und ja, was wir machen heute, was uns der Schwerpunkt ist, ist zum einen innerhalb der BULDATA Service sind wir wahrscheinlich am meisten bekannt für unsere für die Steuersoftware, die VISO Software Reihe. Also VISO VISO Steuer, das sind wir auch Marktführer in Deutschland. Das ist wahrscheinlich das diese Softwareanwendung von uns, die dem meisten am geläufigsten ist. Da steckt auch noch 'n bisschen mehr dahinter, teilweise unter unter anderen Labels. Also das heißt, wenn ihr irgendwo beim Discounter Steuersoftware kauft, dann kommt die auch von uns. Daneben haben wir dann auch einiges weiter teilweise unter der Viso Reihe, teilweise unter eigenen Markennamen wie Bilbop, Finanzblick, einiges anderes. Und dann sind wir tatsächlich auch noch mal eine Softwaregruppe. Das heißt, wir haben verschiedene Tochterunternehmen, die im Bereich b-two-b-Software, also Software für größere Unternehmen, mittelständische Unternehmen in aller Regel, die so was wie Warenwirtschaftssysteme, CRM Systeme und so weiter machen. Ich wollt das eigentlich nicht ansprechen, aber weil Du eben die Microsoft Lizenzen erwähnt hast, Thorsten Moritz, ne. Nach unserem ersten Gespräch hab ich so 'n bisschen überlegt, na, buhl, mit was über was kann man so mit denen reden im Podcast? Und ich hab mich da an was erinnert, von dem ich nicht mehr genau weiß, ob es wahr ist, sondern ob ich mir das einbilde. Aber hat Bool nicht auch die Microsoft CDs und DVDs tatsächlich hergestellt? Also die Ja, genau. Die Speichermedien und so was alles? Also habt ihr da so wirklich Genau, also ist nicht nur Vertrieb in dem Sinne gewesen, ja, sondern wir haben tatsächlich die Datenträger selbst hergestellt. Wir haben das gesamte Packaging gemacht. Das heißt, wir haben alles selbst zusammengestellt und das dann vertrieben. Microsoft hat eigentlich nur eine Sache gemacht. Microsoft hat uns im Prinzip diese Echtheitszertifikate geliefert und wir haben den ganzen Rest gemacht vom Datenträger übers Handbuch bis zum Packaging und die dann eben vertrieben an die verschiedenen OEMs. Und das waren sehr spannende Zeiten. Das war damals diese diese Echtheitzertifikate, die waren Gold wert. Da gab's auch mehrere Einbruchsversuche. Wir haben damals sone Art Ford Nox gestaltet mit Iriserkennung und allem Drum und Dran. Das das war schon wild teilweise. Hab mich da so ganz duster dran erinnert, aber das ist halt leider sehr, also Bool, Microsoft und CD zusammen zu googeln, ist halt einfach komplett unbrauchbar, ja. Also da hab ich so ganz viele andere Treffer, aber ich konnte das nicht mehr nachvollziehen, ob das wirklich so war, aber coole Geschichte auf jeden Fall. Normalerweise, wenn wir in den CTO Special sind, dem dem Termin, mit dem wir starten, das, was wir schon abgehakt haben, ist, wie so dein Bezug zu Technologie war. Normalerweise ist dann ja jetzt erst mal so der persönliche Werdegang, den wir son bisschen durchgehen. Aber dadurch, dass wir hier son Familienunternehmen haben, sind ja 2 Werdegänge, die eigentlich interessant sind. So, das eine ist BUEL als Firma so. Wie kam es denn überhaupt, dass ihr Software entwickelt habt? Und dann natürlich in deiner Rolle, wo Du jetzt bist, wie wie sich das Ganze entwickelt hat. Vielleicht, damit man so den Kontext hat, würd ich eigentlich ganz gerne diesmal hier mit so der Firmenhistorie son bisschen anfangen, zu verstehen, wie's denn überhaupt dazu kam, dass ihr dass ihr Software entwickelt und dann vielleicht eher 'n bisschen auf die persönliche Historie blicken, zumindest im Zeitstrahl fangen wir damit 'n bisschen weiter vorne an, so. Und Du hast jetzt schon viel davon davon erzählt, aber vielleicht kannst Du probieren, mir 2 Dinge näherzubringen. So das eine ist, wie ist es, also ich hab jetzt verstanden, ihr habt Microsoft vertrieben und auch die die DVDs mit Echtzeitzertifikanten, so was selbst hergestellt so. War das der Anfang? Also wie wurde Bool denn überhaupt gegründet? Und wie war der Wechsel von Vertrieb und auch Herstellung hin zu Du auf ganz ursprünglich Druck schaust, war's sogar gab's sogar noch 'n paar Stufen davor. Mein Vater ist gelernt, hat Drucker und tatsächlich, mein Opa hatte 'n Druckereiunternehmen und das war son bisschen der Background und so ist tatsächlich cool. Auch gestartet ganz ursprünglich als als eine Druckerei. Nur ich muss sagen, das ist schon so lange vor mir her, die Geschichten kenn ich auch nur noch selbst aus aus zweiter, dritter Hand. Ja. Aber was wir dann tatsächlich waren und was das was dann auch die Brücke zu diesem Microsoft Geschäft ist, ist, dass wir eben sehr stark im im Softwarevetrieb waren. Das heißt, wir haben eigentlich Softwarelizenzen oder Softwarelizenziert und die dann rausgebracht. Das war dann früher vor allen Dingen im Handel. Die haben wir dann eben unter durch die Kooperation mit mit Viso haben wir die dann unter der Viso Marke herausgebracht. Und dann haben wir irgendwann angefangen und haben, der BWLer würde sagen Vertical Integration, sprich, wir haben angefangen, die Software selbst herzustellen, haben auch teilweise die Software und teilweise auch die Unternehmen dahinter, das waren in der Regel keine großen Unternehmen, die haben wir dann auch aufgekauft, weil wir gesagt haben, das ist für uns so wichtig. Wir wollen hier nicht nur Vertrieb machen. Wir wollen selbstverantwortlich sein für die Software. Wir wollen die Software nach unseren eigenen Vorstellungen weiterentwickeln. Wir wollen unseren Qualitätsanspruch eigentlich überall gleichermaßen durchsetzen können. Und von da haben wir uns dann eben zum Softwarehaus selbst entwickelt, das, was wir heute sind. Weißt Du, wie das so angefangen hat? Also weiß nicht, hat da das ZDF bei euch geklopft und sagt, hey, wir würden gerne Steuersoftware machen und wollt ihr das nicht mit uns zusammen machen? Oder habt ihr beim ZDF angerufen und sagt, hey, wir hätten hier eine voll coole Idee, aber uns fehlt son bisschen Branding, wie wie, das ist ja eine sehr ungewöhnliche Partnerschaft auf den ersten Blick, son Softwarehaus und öffentlich rechtliche. Wie wie kommen die zusammen? Ja, das ist, wie das immer so ist, das ist, denk ich nicht, das ist nicht 100 Prozent planbar. Da gibt's auch, das kannst Du wiederum googeln. Die die Geschichte gibt's gibt's auch online, wie das passiert ist, ja. Im Prinzip war's 'n ziemlich fehlgeschlagenes Event, wo dann aber am Ende wir beziehungsweise mein Vater und damals ein Vertreter vom ZDF zusammengekommen sind und ich sag mal, da saßen dann auch die richtigen Personen beim Tisch. Da war auch beim beim ZDF, war eine Offenheit und auch eine gewisse Risikobereitschaft, muss man wahrscheinlich auch sagen, war dabei. Und das hat sich, denke ich, für für beide Seiten dann dann sehr stark auch ausgezahlt und auch für die Viso Sendung, denke ich, sehr stark ausgezahlt. Also das sind Themen, die kannst Du, glaub ich, nicht planen, ja. Da müssen die richtigen Leute in der richtigen Situation zusammenkommen und dann kann das auch funktionieren. Ja. Wie so oft, manchmal gehört 'n bisschen Zufall dazu. Wie fast immer, ja. Cool. Son bisschen den den Schwenk zu schaffen zu zu dir und wir haben ja schon son bisschen gehört, dass Du dich schon immer eigentlich da dafür interessiert hast, aber war dir das auf soner persönlichen Ebene schon immer klar, dass das mal ist, was Du später auch irgendwie machen willst? Also ich kenn ja, es gibt ja auch Menschen, grade in Familienbetrieben, die sagen, so aus aus Prinzip halt nicht, ne. So, nur weil jetzt meine Eltern und meine Großeltern und das ja alles irgendwie gemacht haben, ich will irgendwie mein eigenes Ding machen und maximal weit weg und mit dem Thema gar nichts zu tun haben so. Wie war wie war das für dich? Also das hatte ich auch mal. Da war ich allerdings 13 und das war reiner Protest gewesen. Da darf ich Das war aber auch immer. Sehr starke Waffe, wenn ich das mal meinen Eltern an den Kopf knalle, dass ich das ganz bestimmt nicht machen werde. Na ja, also ich glaub, zum einen hat mein mein Vater diesen Bliff sehr schnell durchschaut. Zum anderen war der da auch sehr entspannt. Das war auch, wenn wir's jetzt mal kurz vor meine von der Seite meiner Eltern betrachten, die haben immer die haben immer schon gesagt, es ist kein Muss, wir sind nicht hier, eine Dynastie zu begründen oder so was, ja. Ihr macht das, woran ihr woran ihr Freude habt und wofür ihr auch eine Begabung habt. So, und ich sag mal von dieser Kursperiode mal abgesehen, war es in Wirklichkeit immer das, was ich gerne wollte. Ich fand ich fand das Ganze mit T schon wahnsinnig spannend damals, als es noch vielleicht Software für auf CD war bis zu bis heute zu Cloud Mobile Anwendungen und jetzt KI als Riesenthema. Ich kann mir ganz ehrlich, ich kann mir keine spannendere Branche vorstellen. Du bist immer so am Puls der Zeit, das macht, Du musst immer up to date bleiben, aber es macht einfach wahnsinnig viel Spaß. Und mal ganz ehrlich, betriebswirtschaftlich, ich find's auch einfach spannender als Metallbau. Oder was grade bei uns hier im Siegerland sehr, sehr üblich ist. Ja. Ja, aber das das ist ja ist ja cool. So, wenn das würde ich schon irgendwie immer klar, weil ich glaub, das ist auch was, was manche Leute dann son bisschen beneiden, vielleicht sich dann vielleicht erst son bisschen finden müssen in ihrem Karriereweg. Ja, ich muss ganz ehrlich sagen, ich bin wahnsinnig dankbar, dass ausgerechnet wir und unser Unternehmen in dieser Branche ist und nicht in irgend 'ner anderen, wo ich sagen würde nach 'n paar Jahren, ah, ich kann's auch nicht mehr sehen, ich kann's auch nicht mehr hören und ich hab auch keine Lust mehr drauf und ich bin jetzt vielleicht aus reinem Pflichtbewusstsein noch im Unternehmen. Also ich bin bin heilfroh, dass es genau die Branche ist, die mich selbst auch fasziniert. Ja, total. Also ich muss auch sagen, ich war jahrelang auch VISO Nutzer und das war auch das erste Mal, ich benutz hab da direkt so irgendwie sone supercoole Software und das irgendwie ausdeutet. Und ich war einfach beim ersten Mal benutzt, da ist auf jeden Fall irgendwie eine stimmige Software. Und so, und wenn ich jetzt, also da würden mir sehr viel andere Familienunternehmen einfallen, bei der bei denen ich vom inhaltlichen Schwerpunkt weniger gerne arbeiten würde als als Buen. Mein einziger Grund, warum ich nicht mehr bei VISA bin, ist, weil ich mich die Buchhaltung für meine Frau mache und da Lexoffice nutze und die, für die nur eine Smartsteuerintegration haben und ich deswegen von von VISO weg musste. Wenn ich das jetzt dein Feature pitche, weil Du Nein, das ist ja, und Moritz schon mal da hast. Da da sag ich jetzt mein Beileid, das tut mir sehr leid für dich, aber vielleicht schaffen wir ja auch noch für die Lexoffice Kunden irgendwann noch eine noch eine bessere Möglichkeit, ja. Hat jetzt nix damit zu tun, dass wir dass wir mit dir darüber sprechen, aber zumindest diesem Steuerteil trauer ich schon hinterher, dass ich jetzt Smartsteuer dafür nutzen muss. Also ich bin zufrieden mit dem mit Lexoffice als Produkt, aber dass ich mir das wiederum eingekauft hab, gefällt mir nicht daran. Also ja. Also wie gerne, genau, wenn ich nicht machen kann, dann nur für mich gerne diese Integration. Wunderbar. Aber lass uns doch die Reise, weil ich glaub, es gibt, also ich hab mir, ich hab so viele Fragen zu Bool und was grade eure Challenges sind und auch mit eurem Start-up, das ihr noch parallel gegründet habt. Aber lasst doch gerne trotzdem noch die die Historie, damit wir das hier für in unserem Special komplett haben, gerne von dir dann noch mal durchgehen. Weil was was war denn, also so nach Schule bis Einstieg bei Buhl, was waren noch so deine Zwischenstationen? Weil ich hab zumindest gesehen, auch wenn's bei dir, glaub ich, nur 2 Monate waren, haben wir waren wir haben wir zeitgleich für die Deutsche Bank gearbeitet. Echt? Dass wir gleich aufgefallen wollen. Wahnsinn, wir haben zeitgleich für die Deutsche Bank Ja, ich muss zugeben. Ich war ich war allerdings nur Praktikant da. Du warst, ja, ich war zu der Zeit dualer Schüler nicht meine. Ich hab gesehen, 2 11 war's bei dir. Kann das sein? Das müsst ich nachgucken. Also laut laut Xing Aber warte, lass mich überlegen. 2 11 kommt könnte schon gut sein. Kommt hin, 2 Ja, da war mein Beginn fürs duale Studium, weil ich glaub, wir waren also müssten da zeitgleich gewesen sein. Ich war auch Ist das ja der Meinung, der danach sagen muss, meinem Beileid? Ich muss sagen, es war eine sehr spannende Zeit gewesen. Allerdings war ich auch mit Inhouse Consulting in in 'nem sehr spannenden Bereich gewesen. Aber ganz grundsätzlich, ich hab ich hab bei uns ganz normal Abi gemacht, hab dann auch 'n freiwilliges soziales Jahr gemacht. Das heißt, ich hab damals verweigert. Wir mussten ja noch theoretisch. Hab als Deutschlehrer in China gearbeitet an der christlichen Universität und hab dann 'n Bachelor in in Deutschland und 'n Master, beides in 'ner Management BWL Richtung gemacht. Hatte zum einen immer vor, auch währenddessen und danach auch erst mal woanders zu arbeiten, zumindest mal 'n begrenzten Zeitraum, auch einfach mal was anderes zu sehen. Aber schon irgendwo mit dem Ziel, dann irgendwann mal zumindest zur BUELL wieder reinzukommen, wenn ich immer noch das Gefühl hatte, dass es passt. Und wenn die mich auch da haben wollen und beides der Fall war, bin ich dann auch nach nach 1 Station bei bei bei Vodafone Vodafone Italien dann damals, dadurch, dass ich ja in Italien meinen Master gemacht hab. Nach der Station bin ich dann auch wieder zurück ins Unternehmen oder überhaupt mal erst hin ins Unternehmen, wobei ich nie so ganz weg war. Ich war tatsächlich immer son bisschen das da im Familienunternehmen im Sinne von, ich hab damals gab's das noch, bin ich mit 6 Jahren noch aufm Lkw bei uns mitgefahren. Dadurch, dass wir eben noch viel Material, physische Produkte und Warenwirtschaft zu dem Zeitpunkt hatten, hatten wir auch noch Lkws und Fließbänder und solche Sachen, wo eben die ganzen Handbücher und das ganze Packaging und so weiter stattfand. Dann hab ich illegalerweise schon irgendwie im Alter von bis 10 Jahren oder so gab's Heimarbeit damals. Das heißt, Du konntest dir irgendwie so die verschiedenen Packages, Bestandteile nach Hause liefern lassen und die konntest Du dann zusammenstecken. Das hab ich dann gemacht und dann hat mir meine Mutter entsprechend was zugesteckt. Und dann hab ich irgendwann genauso illegal mit 13, glaub ich, angefangen, bei uns in im Servicecenter zu arbeiten am Telefon und mit 15 dann in der in der technischen Nordline. Also das heißt, so ganz weg war ich eigentlich nie gewesen. Und bin dann 2014 nach der Vodafone Station bin ich dann in ein Tochterunternehmen bei uns eingestiegen in der Schweiz, wo ich 3 Jahre war. Und dann 2017 bin ich zu uns, zu nach Neukirchen gekommen, da wo wir sitzen an unseren Firmensitz. Und hab dann als Erstes Invoice mit aufgebaut. 'N Invoicing Produkt, wie der Name schon sagt. Und dann ab 2019 war ich in der Geschäftszeitung und ab wann war's? Ende 20 21? Nee, nee, nee, war früher. Jetzt hab ich grad nicht mehr aufm Schirm, aber ist seit einigen Jahren dann auch alleine im Sinne von, dass mein Vater draußen ist, allerdings nicht alleine in der Geschäftsführung und sowieso nicht alleine im Leiterkreis. Ich hab noch eine Frage zu deinem Studium. Ja. Und Du hast ja gesagt, das war für dich eigentlich schon immer klar oder Du wolltest das gerne, dass Du dann zu Buhrl eben auch gehst. Das hätte ja auf 3 verschiedene Studien eigentlich rauslaufen können, ne. Du hättest entweder was so hart mit mit Software machen können, klassische Software Engineering, Du hättest was mit Managern machen können, wie Du gemacht hast, oder Du hättest ja auch was in Richtung Text und Legal machen können, einfach so Domainwissen aufzubauen, ne. Wie sah so dieser Entscheidungsprozess für dich aus? Oder war das überhaupt gar keine Entscheidung? Und das war schon immer für dich klar, dass Du das irgendwie in der Richtung machen willst. Also faktisch war es immer schon für mich klar. Ich überlege gerade, woher kommt es? Also zum einen auf die Gefahr hin, mich unbeliebt zu machen. Ich hab gerne diese BWL im Managementrichtung studiert. Ich hatte Spaß an der, hat mich hat mich immer gefolgt. Zum anderen war es auch so, ich bin da 'n bisschen von zu Hause vorgeprägt. Wie gesagt, mein Vater ist gelernter Drucker, der kann auch keine Zeile programmieren, genauso wenig wie ich, ja. Ich hab, glaube ich, 'n ganz gutes Verständnis, grade für UX Themen, aber Code 0 Zero hatte ich auch nie wirklich Bezug zu. Dann den Text, die Text, Lidl Themen klar, hätte man machen können, aber am Ende hatte ich das Gefühl, dass mich auch im BWL Studium, ich sag mal, für für diese gesamtverantwortliche Rolle doch wahrscheinlich besser vorbereitet als eine fachliche Richtung. Vielleicht, mich würd mal interessieren, wie sieht son denn jetzt grade heute aus? Du hast immer mal son paar Eindrücke aus deiner frühen Jugend irgendwie geteilt so. Ich hab jetzt grad verstanden, irgendwie LKWs. Du hast von Ford Nox erzählt, dass man da mit Iris Scanner irgendwie nicht reinkam und so. Und irgendwie alles war sehr hardwaregetrieben, dann hin den Switch zu Software so. Wie, wenn wir jetzt bei euch im Headquarter sind, so wie viel, ich werd überhaupt gar keinen keinen Empfinden dafür, wie wie viel ist denn überhaupt noch? Verkauft ihr irgendeine Form von physischen Datenträgern aktuell grade noch? Ist alles digital so? Wie viel von Also was ist ein Bool heute im Vergleich zu dem Ford Knox Iris Scanner von vor 25, 20 Jahren? Ja. Tatsächlich, das das eine hat fast nichts mehr mit dem anderen zu tun, deswegen. Ich hab eben schon gedacht, als ich's erzählt hab, oh, hoffentlich kommen hier keine falschen Bilder rüber. Wenn Du dir heute eigentlich eine eine gute Gesamtheit nicht anguckst, dann hast Du 3 große Bereiche. Der eine Bereich ist natürlich Softwareentwicklung und da ist voller Fokus Web, App und mittlerweile auch AI. Da auch mal 'n Eindruck zu geben, wir haben jetzt zu Hochphasen, wir haben ja jetzt grade vor 'n paar Tagen haben wir ja Steuerdeadline für dieses Jahr gehabt. Es sind genau 7 Prozent, die noch eine zu installierende On Brand Version als Neukunde kaufen. Der Rest ist Web und App. So dementsprechend ist das unser normales Daily Business geworden und das, an dem wir arbeiten und das, wie wir auch denken. Softwareentwicklung ist insofern der eine große Teil. Der ist aber nur teilweise hier in Neukirchen, gerade für die Steuersoftware. Haben wir Entwicklungsstandort in Mannheim und Hannover. Andere wie zum Beispiel eben 'n oder 'n Finanzblick, die werden hier entwickelt in Neukirchen. Der zweite große Bereich ist das Thema IT und vor allen Dingen dort Rechenzentren. Wir betreiben ja unsere eigenen Rechenzentren. Das ist natürlich kein ganz kleines Unterfangen. Das Wilde ist, wir haben's jetzt genau zur Deadline auch noch mal gehabt, wir müssen eigentlich die Rechenzentren auf diesen einen verrückten Tag dieses Jahr, einunddreißigster Achter 20 25 müssen wir auslegen, wo wir irgendwie das Zwanzigfache an Last haben als an 'nem normalen Tag. Dafür muss die ganze Infrastruktur stehen und funktionieren. Und das ist natürlich 'n ultrawichtiger Bereich für uns, weil's einfach auch 'n essenzieller Teil unseres unseres Werbeversprechens ist. So und der dritte Teil ist Marketing und Vertrieb, vor allen Dingen damit dann Onlinemarketing, wo natürlich auch 'n großer Teil des Budgets auch hingeht. Diese On Preme Lösung ist aber, also wie, das ist ja wahrscheinlich trotzdem nicht verschickt, physische Datenpräg oder so was, das wahrscheinlich 'n, also Gibt es noch? Ist aber ist aber tatsächlich die Ausnahme. Also es gab 2 Punkte. Das eine ist der Handel, wo wir auch immer noch 'n bisschen was machen. Die haben logischerweise noch physische Themen, aber auch 'n Amazon stellt jetzt komplett auf digitale- und Download Versionen was auch da schon sowieso das meiste ist. Web und App ist dann natürlich 'n bisschen schwieriger. Und dann ist es so, wir haben eben auch noch einen Haufen Bestandskunden da draußen. Und manchmal tut's mir 'n bisschen selber weh, aber dann sehe ich, dann bin ich bei Leuten am Laptop zu Hause und dann sehe ich irgendwie, Viso Steuer ist noch die letzte installierte Software, die die haben und ich frag sie, warum. Ja, ich hab's seit 15 Jahren so. Ja, gut. Das heißt, es gibt auch noch eine Diskrepanz zwischen Neukunden. Welche welche Kanäle und welche Devices wählt wählt ein Neukunde versus die Bestandskunden, die vielleicht ja eben aus alter Routine dann auch immer noch installieren, auch wenn sie keinen physischen Datenträger mehr nehmen. Und die Maschinen zum Erstellen der Datenträger und das ganze, die gibt's in der Tat nicht mehr. Also das Bisschen, was wir noch machen, machen wir in der Regel nicht mehr selbst. Kannst Du uns das son bisschen noch von der Größe her einordnen, diese 3 Säulen? Wie viele Mitarbeiter habt ihr so insgesamt und wie verteilen die sich? Ja, ich hab eben noch Ganz ganz cool. Mitarbeiterzahl angeht, grob noch einen großen Bereich wiederschlagen und das ist der Bereich Service und Support, der kommt noch mit dazu. Insofern, das ist eine große Säule. Die Softwareentwicklung ist eine große Säule, was personaltechnisch angeht und dann die Bereiche Rechenzentren und Marketing, die sind kleiner, was eine Anzahl an Personen angeht. Budgetverteilung sieht allerdings 'n bisschen anders aus Als Reinemull Data Service ohne die Tochterunternehmen kommen wir, statt mich tot, vielleicht so auf. Lass mich nicht lügen, 500 Leute so was den Dreh müssen es sein. So, und das sind aber Das ist ja schon wieder eine Größenordnung. Genau. Und als ganze Gruppe sind wir, glaub ich, knapp unter 1000. Und als, weil Du grade Beispiel, einunddreißigster Achter und zwanzigfache Last so, son bisschen, ein 1 der ersten Takea Themen son bisschen zu schneiden. Wie wie ist denn? Heißt das, ihr haltet die ganze Zeit Server für diesen Tag vor oder wie wie Rechenzentren bisher noch wenig, also noch kein eigenes aufgebaut, bisher noch bei keiner Firma gearbeitet, die ihre eigenen Rechenzentren betreiben musste oder es nicht hat von jemand anderem betreiben lassen? Wie also wie stellt ihr sicher, dass ihr zwanzigfache Kapazität habt in an diesem einunddreißigsten Achten? Ja, also die Infrastruktur ist prinzipiell alles da, ist alles vorhanden. Also wir mieten jetzt auch nichts irgendwie für 'n Tag noch mal dazu. Wir haben, wenn Du so willst, noch mal 'n paar Back up Lösungen, wenn alles in die Winzen gehen würde. Aber ja, wir halten tatsächlich alles vor und das sind natürlich ist 'n Saisonverlauf und 'n Saisonhöhepunkt, den wir natürlich auch lang voraus planen. Und da muss man auch tatsächlich immer son bisschen gucken. Es spielt eine Rolle, an was fürn Tag ist der einunddreißigste Achte? Die letzten Jahre war's anders, da war's dann irgendwie der zweite des Folgemonats oder so. Ist das 'n Wochentag? Ist der am Wochenende so? Sonntag oder Samstag, wenn es Samstagnacht wäre, dann dann wär's wahrscheinlich noch mal schärfer, als wenn es unter der Woche ist. Ja. Und wir sehen dann wirklich, wie die Zahlen immer höher und höher und höher gehen. Zum Abend hin wird es mehr und mehr und mehr. Und dann hast Du so den Peak so 20 Uhr. Und dann hast Du noch mal son Peak 23 Uhr 59 tatsächlich. Aber ja, prinzipiell halten wir alles dafür vor und bereit. Du hast ja gesagt, ihr betreibt euer eigenes Rechenzentrum, weil das auch so Teil von eurer Außenkommunikation ist. Ist das die Hauptmotivation? Ich hab auch schon in Projekten Firmen gearbeitet, die ihre eigenen Rechenzentren betreiben mussten, weil sie so Sicherheitsanforderungen an, also tatsächlich physische Sicherheitsanforderungen, ne, an das Rechenzentrum. Das muss besonders zugangsgeschützt und so was alles sein, weil da halt sehr sensible Daten rumliegen und so. Ist ist das eure Motivation oder ist das eher dieses, hey, wenn ihr mit BUEL arbeitet, liegen eure Daten in Deutschland sicher bei uns, kommunikativer Aspekt? Es ist der, es ist eine Kombination aus beidem. Weil die Daten so sensibel sind, ja, es, ich mein, es sind die, es sind Steuerdaten, es sind Buchhaltungsdaten. Ich glaube, als Privatperson oder als Selbstständiger in Deutschland kannst Du nichts Sensibleres haben. Weil die Daten so sensibel sind, fühlen wir, dass wir dieses Werteversprechen abgeben müssen, ja. Dass es so sein muss, dass es Teil dessen ist. Gleichzeitig Aber es ist rechtlich treueben. Na ja, wir sind auch BaFin lizenziert, damit kommt dann auch noch mal So was. Was. Das heißt, wenn auch Bankkonten abrufen und und Transaktionen auslösen im Onlinebanking. Das macht es uns natürlich auch noch mal deutlich leichter. Aber das ist auch natürlich im Moment 'n Punkt an uns jetzt gerade, wenn wir wenn wir am Anfang 1 KI Zeitalters stehen, müssen wir gucken, okay, an welchen Stellen ist das absolut noch sinnvoll? Gibt es aber auch vielleicht Stellen, wo wir sagen, okay, wir beschneiden nicht bei uns, aber wir beschneiden den Kundennutzen extrem, wenn wir sagen, wir bleiben die ganze Zeit on bram, ja. Ich mein auch unsere KI Infrastruktur und wir sind auch grade mitten im Aufbau, die können wir prinzipiell schon lokal betreiben. Aber es gibt natürlich immer wieder Szenarien, Anwendungen, wo's absolut Sinn macht, wenn Du nach wenn Du nach außen gehst. Das ist einmal natürlich die Frage, wo machst Du das? Und dann ist natürlich auch die Frage, wie machst Du das, ohne dass dass trotzdem eine sensible Daten sind, die die nach außen gehen, ja? Und ich sag mal, das ist eine ongoing Diskussion. Ich spring vielleicht wieder son bisschen zurück, aber weil die also im Zeitstrahler, weil mich die Frage son bisschen interessiert aus der heutigen Zeit, so wie wie ihr eigentlich die Software entwickelt? Wie seid ihr aufgestellt? So, in welcher Art entwickelt ihr so? Und in dem Zuge kommt mir noch eine Frage son bisschen vorher. Und zwar, ich mein, wir, ihr und ich arbeiten beide in ein Unternehmen, das Software entwickelt und wissen selbst, welche Challenges daherkommen, wenn man Software entwickelt und die Art und Weise, wie man das tut und welche Technologien man entscheiden und so was. Da kann man auch viele Fehler machen und auch durchaus so was den Erfolg des Unternehmens irgendwie beeinflussen. Und ich stell mir's grundsätzlich schwierig vor, jetzt so wenn ich mir in der Stelle mal 'n bisschen zurückspule, dein dein Papa kommt irgendwie, ist gelernter Drucker und entscheidet dann irgendwann, okay, die die Software wollen wir jetzt irgendwie selbst weiterentwickeln und so. Und hab, die Seite ja jetzt echt 40 Jahre später an 'nem Date, wo man wirklich sagen kann, wie gesagt, es war auch vorhin wirklich ernst gemeint, sowieso als Software eine, die wirklich super gut funktioniert, ihr es hinbekommen hat, gut das Ganze zu skalieren, superviele Produkte parallel macht und so. Und ich frag mich, weiß nicht, ob Du da Geschichten aus der Historie son bisschen kennst, so, welche Entscheidung glaubst Du, hat dein Papa da in der Vergangenheit vielleicht auch irgendwie gut getroffen? Hat er die richtigen Leute eingestellt, die im Endeffekt so was mit ihm zusammen den Softwareteil aufbauen, weil so komplett softwarefremd, ein Softwareunternehmen zu führen. Ich kann mir vorstellen, dass man, dass auch viele andere da durchaus Entscheidungen hätten treffen können, die heute ein vielleicht kein Unternehmen hervorgerufen werden, dass es seit 40 Jahren gibt und so erfolgreich ist. Es ist sehr weit gefasst diese Frage. Vielleicht irgend so was, wie hast Du's Gefühl, ist es so, gab's da irgendwie auch bestimmte Entscheidungen, wo dann die dann Papa drauf zurück sind, hat er von vornherein irgendwie die richtigen Leute eingestellt, hat er schon seit Ewigkeiten irgendwie einen CT, wenn wir's jetzt mal Titel wieder nehmen, einen CTO beiseite, der irgendwie ihm da viel von abgenommen hat, sodass er das das gar nicht sein Hauptaugenmerk sein musste, sondern produktfokussierter sein musste. So wie, vielleicht ein bisschen aus der Historie und dann gerne erzählt mit, wie arbeitet ihr denn heute, wie entwickelt ihr heute Software? Ja, also erst mal, wir haben auch eine Menge grober Fehler gemacht. Das ist definitiv so und unter einigen dieser Fehler und leiden wir auch bis heute noch, auch eben technologische Fehlentscheidungen gehören auch mit dazu. Ich glaube, das ist eine ist aber 'n Stück weit normal. Aber es ist vor allen Dingen das, was Du gesagt hast. Mein Vater hat damals mit den richtigen Leuten zusammengearbeitet, die die richtigen Leute eingestellt und das ist etwas, was uns als Unternehmen bis heute noch auszeichnet. Ich finde, wir haben gerade 'n besonders starkes Leadershipteam, worüber ich auch sehr dankbar bin. Ich mein, ich hab eben die wohl beschrieben, wir haben eine gewisse Komplexität auch dabei. Wenn es irgendwo son einsamen Geschäftsführer oben gäbe und wenn ich das dann noch wäre, ich glaube, das wär sehr, sehr schwer. Insofern bin ich sehr dankbar dafür, dass wir immer schon diese diese Kultur hatten 1 starken Leadershipteams, immer schon sehr, sehr gute Leute hatten Und die sind es letzten Ende die die diese schwierigen Entscheidungen dann auch treffen konnten, ohne dass mein Vater oder ich als Nichttechniker dort immer alles 100 Prozent beurteilen konnten. Und trotzdem ist es natürlich so, wir haben auch den Anspruch heute als als Leadershipteam, dass wir wie unser, wie man Co Geschäftsführer hat, wie der Globik so schön sagt, wir sind keine Frühstücksdirektoren. Jeder von uns hat seine Bereiche, in denen er immer mit dabei ist, wo er im Fieg mal rumspringt, wo er mittextet, wo er aber auch bei Technologieentscheidungen mit dabei ist, auch wenn er auch wenn man selber vielleicht kein Techniker ist. Aber grade die großen Technologieentscheidungen sind ja eigentlich eher fast nur strategischer Natur. Was ist uns wichtig und was wollen wir letzten Endes? Und da kann man sehr wohl, glaub ich, als Nichttechniker zumindest 'n Input leisten und muss es wahrscheinlich auch. Ich hoffe, das beantwortet deine Frage 'n bisschen. Ja. Ja, definitiv. Aber vielleicht kannst Du mich dann ja gern noch mal, jetzt hast Du schon mal, jetzt sind wir schon fast, also sozusagen das erste Tool gejobbt, ihr ihr nutzt Figma zur Entwicklung, aber vielleicht kannst Du mich gerne auch von auf 'ner hohen Flughöhe erst mal abholen, so, wie wie genau entwickelt ihr denn Software? Also wie wie wie ist Entscheidungsfindung so? Wie sind eure Teams aufgestellt so? Wie also gerne so die Struktur, sowohl was Prozesse als auch was irgendwie Teamstrukturen angeht. Probier mich da gerne mal durch zum Job. Bevor Du das antwortest, würde die Frage gerne erweitern. Oh. Ist ja nicht so, dass ich sie schon sehr breit gestellt hab. Ja, also weil weil Du auch so auf diesen Prozessen und und wie passiert das? Ich stell mir das grade in in eurem Space, also egal ob wir jetzt über über Bool und VISO oder über Invoice und Billbop und so was reden, das ist ja immer auch 'n bisschen von außen getrieben, ne. Also was gibt es für rechtliche Vorgaben? Wie ändern die sich? So, das gibt ja schon viel vor, was einfach gemacht werden muss, ob Du willst oder nicht, ne. Da muss halt irgendwie eine Rechnung angepasst werden, da muss müssen neue Felder hinzugefügt werden et cetera, et cetera. Und gleichzeitig habt ihr ja einen einen einen Veröffentlichungszyklus Schrägstrich Rhythmus, der ja auch son bisschen fremdbestimmt ist, weil wird halt jedes Jahr, ne, gibt's 'n Jahresabschluss, wird eine Steuererklärung gemacht, so. Das das liegt ja auch nicht in eurer Hand, wann ihr dann veröffentlichen wollt oder nicht. Und das sind ja so so 2 Seiten, von denen so der Handlungsspielraum für Sachen, die jetzt rein von euch kommen, neue Features, neue Produktideen, die das ja schon son bisschen einschränken, einfach, was überhaupt vielleicht links und rechts möglich ist. Und das stell ich mir halt als son sehr spannenden Drahtseilakt vor. Ja, also eigentlich hast Du schon angefangen, die Frage 'n bisschen zu beantworten, kann man sagen, jeden Tag. Ich weiß nicht, was die Antwort ist. Ich weiß ja noch nicht. Jetzt noch nicht. Du hast mal gemught, was Teil der Antwort sein könnte so. Es gibt doch Anforderungen von außen. Ja, also alles alles, was Jan sagt, sowieso, nein. Es ist aber tatsächlich so, wie er sagt. Wir haben zum einen haben wir einen einen Rhythmus, der ein Stück weit von außen diktiert ist. Das ist zumindest in der Steuerwelt so. In der Buchhaltungswelt ist das ist das nicht so umfangreich und nicht nicht in diesem starken Maß. Das heißt, ich sag mal, Du hast, wenn wir jetzt beim Steuerbereich bleiben, hast Du einen einen starken Jahresrhythmus, ja. Du weißt, dann und dann bringen wir in die nächste die nächste Version raus. Das heißt, dann und dann muss die fertig sein. Das ist der Zeitraum, in dem wir was machen können. Zum zur Deadline lassen wir die Finger von allem, ja. Da werden wir auch keine keine Updates mehr fahren. Was alles, was nicht absolut notwendig ist. Da werden wir 0 Risiko gehen, ja. Das ist das ist so der von außen auferlegte Rhythmus. Und den musst Du natürlich fahren und der hilft dir als Unternehmen. So. Und dann musst Du aber gleichzeitig und das ist dann in der Tat die Challenge, musst Du sagen, okay, außerhalb dieses dieses Rhythmus arbeite ich jetzt eigentlich an den an den Innovationsthemen, ja. Jetzt muss ich ich muss 'n Stück weit nicht 2 Geschwindigkeiten fahren, aber 2 verschiedene Arten von Softwareentwicklungen fahren. Einmal die von außen auferlegte, wo ich neue steuerliche Rahmenbedingungen mit abbilde, neue buchhalterische Themen mit integriere, ja, die von außen auferlegten. Und dann hast Du aber die intern Getriebenen, ja, wo Du sagst, ich brauche neue Features, ich brauche neue Technologien. Ich möchte das, was bisher manuell war, möcht ich jetzt irgendwie durch durch KI vorantreiben und so und so weiter und so fort. Und Du musst achtgeben, dass der Rhythmus des einen, dieser Jahresrhythmus, nicht den Rhythmus des anderen diktiert. Denn dann wird's gefährlich, denn dann wirst Du ganz schnell langsam. Und das Problem ist natürlich auch, der eine Rhythmus ist ein Muss, der von außen auch verlegte. Der andere Rhythmus ist ein Kann, ja. Und das heißt natürlich, es kann ja sehr schnell passieren, dass der dass der Muss Rhythmus immer den den Kanu Rhythmus übersteuert. Und das das ist eine Gefahr. Deswegen Du musst zusehen, dass Du immer Teile des Teams hast, die innovationsgetrieben arbeiten, die einfach auch zusehen, dass ihre Sachen rauskommen, ja. Und Du musst auch sehr stark unterscheiden, was sind Bereiche, wo ich Fehler machen darf und was sind Bereiche, wo ich's nicht machen darf? Bei der steuerlichen Logik, da sind 0 Fehlertoleranz, ja. Das darf ich einfach nicht versauen, fertig erst. Bei den Innovationsthemen, wenn ich sage, okay, das hier eben, jetzt mach ich mit KI oder sonst irgendwas, aber KI ist einfach 'n schönes Beispiel. Da darf ich sagen, okay, da muss ich auch sagen, hier bin ich auch mal unperfekt, ja. Hier hier bring ich auch mal Sachen raus und vielleicht geht's auch schief, ja. Aber ich muss hier eine hohe Geschwindigkeit fahren und ich muss einfach eine andere Risikobereitschaft haben. Und das heißt, gibt es unternehmerisch schon auch diese Muss und Kann Teams? Also trennt ihr Teams nach diesen nach diesem Art des Arbeitens oder machen, also wie wie macht ihr die Trennung danach? Und wie wie ihr auch, ich mein, es ist ja am Ende halt trotzdem Software, am Ende die gleiche irgendwie Infrastruktur. Wie schaut ihr denn, dass die einen, die Fehler machen dürfen, nicht Fehler reinbringen in ein System, wo andere da eigentlich darauf achten müssen, dass keine reinkommen soll? Also wie ist wie wie funktioniert denn diese Trennung? Ist das ist das Gleichnis, dass natürlich Teams? Es ist nicht ganz leicht, es auch zu sagen. Also es gibt kein, Du bist nicht Mitglied im Team M oder im Team K, das jetzt nicht. Aber ich sag mal, es es kommt darauf an, eben in welchem Projekt Du arbeitest, welche Verantwortung Du gerade hast für welches Thema. Und das muss natürlich auch 'n Stück weit zu den Leuten passen, ja. Und dann muss auch in der in der Anforderung definiert werden, worum geht es hier, ja? Und was was ist die Erwartungshaltung? Daran hängt es, aber es ist es ist auch 'n Kampf die richtige Struktur an der Stelle, ganz klar. Und da ist auch die Diskussion ist noch nicht ausgefochten, absolut nicht. Du hast auch gerade gesagt, man man das muss man auch die richtige Person für sein, ne, so zu arbeiten. Softwareentwickler müssen ja immer auch so die Domäne verstehen, in der sie unterwegs sind, ja. Also wenn wir hier Spiele bauen, müssen wir verstehen, wie Spiele funktionieren, was so Mechaniken dahinter sind. Wenn jemand im E-Commerce unterwegs ist, muss er von Marketing und Produktahnung haben, ja. Und wenn jemand bei euch Software baut, dann stell ich mir das so mit als die komplexeste Domäne vor, die man so nebenbei irgendwie noch beherrschen muss. Wie wie wie stellt ihr das denn denn sicher? Weil also, ich stell mir vor, die allerwenigsten Menschen, die zu euch kommen, sind schon absolute Steuerprofis vorher, sondern die müssen es ja irgendwie bei euch, mit euch während der Arbeit irgendwie lernen. Habt habt ihr da son son Framework für euch gefunden, allen Teams, egal ob das jetzt, ne, Software wird da sicherlich ein ist, aber auch Leuten im im Support und so weiter, denen halt noch Fachwissen mitzugeben? Ja, also wir haben sehr unterschiedliche Biografien. Der Standardisierungsgrad ist auch sehr unterschiedlich, eben im im Support und und im Service. Da da sind natürlich die Trainingswege wesentlich standardisierter, ne. Als das jetzt, sagen wir mal, im Produktmanagement der Fall ist. Da da haben wir zum einen haben wir immer Fachleute im Team. Das heißt, wir haben Buchhaltungsexperten, wir haben Steuerexperten, die sind normaler Bestandteil des Teams, aber in der Regel nicht da, wo Du grade neuem aufbauen willst und wo Du sagst, jetzt eigentlich jetzt bräuchten wir eigentlich einen hier mitten mitten im Team. Da hast Du natürlich immer keinen, wie das so ist. Den kannst Du ja auch nicht in der Regel so schnell schnitzen. Ist wahrscheinlich auch gut so. Und dann sind die Wege auch oft 'n bisschen ungerarder. Viel ist tatsächlich Erfahrung. Du kommst rein, Du bist vielleicht, Du trägst nicht die Verantwortung für Fachlichkeit, aber Du lernst dazu, Du hast die richtigen Leute an der Hand. Du weißt, wen Du fragen kannst und dann wird auch irgendwann 'n strukturierter Prozess draus. Aber wenn ich mir das jetzt grade mal anschaue, wenn wir Buchhaltungslogik in den Bilbov integrieren, ja, ich seh das an unserer Produktmanagerin. Die hat verschiedene Vorstation bei uns im Unternehmen gehabt. Die ist mit dem Thema schon in den Berührungen gekommen, ja. Die hatte schon eine Grundahnung und da hat sie sich dann weiterentwickelt. Und dann haben wir aber auch im Unternehmen wiederum die richtigen Ressourcen, die sie dann wieder ansprechen kann und die dann auch entsprechend unterstützen können. Also ich sag mal so, wir haben ein gewisses Grundwissen im Unternehmen, das ist auch wichtig so. Und das können dann Leute auch reinwachsen und können dann auch selbst Teil dieser Fachlichkeit werden. Und hab ich das eben richtig in der Halbzeit verstanden? Ihr macht crossfunktionale Teams dann entsprechend da? Wenn Du sagst, da sind zum Beispiel auch Fachleute schon mit dabei, das heißt, es gibt immer Teams mit unterschiedlicher Zusammensetzung dafür. Ja. Ist nicht ist nicht von Produkt zu Produkt gleich, aber in der Regel ja. Cool. Du hast fachlichen Vielleicht. Produktmanagement Input. Du hast Du hast die Entwickler selbst, Marketing. Mhm. Cool. Ja. Ich muss noch mal 'n bisschen nachfragen hin zu eurem Entwicklungsprozess. Und ich, was ich noch nicht so komplett verstanden hab, ist, wie denn genau bei euch neue Features in Software irgendwie priorisiert werden und wie nehmen Teams diese Features und priorisieren Kann versus Muss Features gegeneinander so. Also ich probier mich gern mal davon abzuholen, so in welchem Zeit, also wann wann plant die werden? Son Musthema am Anfang des Jahres und dann ist klar, das muss dieses Jahr geschehen so und wie passieren dann diese Kann Themen parallel? So wie ist dieser wie ist wie ist der Prozess von Idee, das müssten wir machen, gerne das ist dann jetzt eher im Kann Bereich, zu, jetzt ist es umgesetzt so. Wie wem ich da mal irgendwie reinzusondern und wie wie die Teams selbst jonglieren zwischen, das hätte der Moritz jetzt gerne dieses Jahr, dass wir dann 'n Innovationsfeature haben und da sagt der Staat, das muss aber. Ja, wie gesagt, für das für das, was der Staat sagt, da hast Du eigentlich einen einen festen Rhythmus, ja. Der wird einfach gelebt, der ist in der in der Organisation drin. Das andere sind, ich ich hätt fast gesagt, normale Priorisierungsprozesse. 1 unserer Hauptanliegen, wo wir aber auch immer wieder kläglich versagen, ist, dass wir sagen, wir brauchen Fokus bei diesen Kanthemen, ne. Und wir müssen aktiv aktiv Ressourcen dafür finden, Ressourcen dafür freimachen. Ja, ich ja. Ich wünschte manchmal, es wäre nicht so, aber wahrscheinlich hat jeder immer das Gefühl, man hat zu wenig Leute. Aber umgekehrt, es hilft uns eben in diesem Priorisierungsprozess, dass man eben nicht unendlich Ressourcen hat, deswegen ist das eine gute Sache. Ich ich kann dir keinen festen Prozess als Antwort geben, aber wir müssen für uns immer wieder neu definieren und das ist nicht einmal im Jahr, das ist eher Jeden Monat hätt ich bald gesagt, immer wieder, was ist uns wirklich wichtig? Weil wir auch während des Jahres lernen wir natürlich immer wieder, wir lernen über diese Kant Features auch und es verändert sich auch ständig immer wieder. Und insofern, das ist 'n recht agiler Prozess. Aber tatsächlich musst Du regelmäßig die Richtung festklopfen und sagen, okay, das haben wir vielleicht letzten Monat gedacht, das müssen wir machen oder sollten wir machen, ja. Es ist für uns als Unternehmen relevant, es ist für den Kunden relevant, dass es immer noch war, aber das Cop hat sich jetzt vielleicht noch mal verändert. Aber ich muss, ich muss trotzdem noch mal nach nachklopfen. Wer wer genau ist das Wir? Also wer wer macht, also ich hab jetzt eine Produktmanagerin, die für ein Team verantwortlich ist so. Wo bist Du da drin und wo ist das Produktmanagement drin und wer wer ist das, wie er die darüber entscheidet hat? Ist sone Frage nach der Autonomie in den Teams oder worauf worum geht's dir? Ja, eigentlich nee, erst mal nur zu verstehen, wie genau so Features, also wie wie kommt bei bei Boul sein, weil ist das halt schon, für mich ist das aus meiner Brille son, also mit diesen sehr restriktiven Anforderungen irgendwie eine andere Art der der Softwareentwicklung so. Und ich würde gerne wissen so, wie wie in welchen Kreisen wird über solche Features diskutiert? Wie wie kommen sie am Ende rein? Und so so der der Lebenstyp ist son bisschen einfach besser besser zu verstehen. Ja. Viele, nicht nur Vorschläge, auch Entscheidungen kommen natürlich von den Produktmanagern selbst. Aber, und das war auch das, was ich eben meinte, jeder aus unserem Leadershipteam, die jetzt irgendwo Umsatz- und Produktverantwortung haben, ja, sprich in der in der BULTEC Service mit 'nem Peter Schmitz als Geschäftsführer dort im Buchhaltungsbereich oder bei mir mit Bilob. Jeder von uns hat ausm Leadership Team hat seine seine Produkte und seine Bereiche oder sein Produkt, wo er eben sehr hands on mit dabei ist und wo er eben aktiv Teil dieses Priorisierungsprozesses ist. Also es ist nicht so, dass wir am Ende des Jahres da mal runtergehen und mal sagen, gucken wir uns doch mal an, wie die Software jetzt aussieht. Und was jetzt auch sehr geworden ist im Laufe des Jahres gar nicht eben. Das meine ich, da sind wir wirklich eng mit dabei. Jeder, der irgendwo Produktverantwortung trägt und das ist auch gleichzeitig bei uns in der Regel mit Umsatzverantwortung, die beiden gehen Hand in Hand. Nicht jeder ist in allem drin, aber jeder ist irgendwo tief drin. Das heißt, das ist auch das, was Du am Anfang meint, das mit, ihr seid nicht die, wie war der Begriff, die Frühstückdirektororen, ja. Die Frühstücksdirektororen, sondern so so. Ihr im Leadershipteam seid ihr dann nach Produkten irgendwie aufgeteilt und derjenige, der verantwortlich für das Produkt ist, ist so einfach sehr nah und am Ende irgendwie im im Entwicklungsprozess mit drin. Das heißt, es ist irgendwie eine 'n Zusammenspiel aus Leadershipteam plus Produktmanager. Dadurch, dass die so eng zusammen sind, ist es nicht ein einmal im Monat Report gemacht, ab und zu kommen wir von oben Ideen rein dann wieder, sondern ist einfach eine sehr enge Zusammenarbeiten. Es gibt, das das war auch der Teil, den man auch bis jetzt nicht so ganz bewusst hat. Wie wie sind denn die Hierarchien zwischen Produktmanagement bis hin zu einem ausm Leadershipteam, der Produktverantwortung hat? Ja. Und dazu kommt kommt dann noch mal die technische Seite, auch eben vertreten durch durch unseren CTO. Insofern eine gewisse Komplexität ist da. Es gibt auch gewisse Überschneidungen, aber am Ende und das ist 'n wichtiger Punkt für uns, bei aller Technik, die wichtig ist, wir schauen am Ende ganz klar auf das, was sieht der Kunde, was was erlebt der Kunde? Wir sind sehr, sehr stark User Experience getrieben und insofern, da sind wir natürlich mit bei den Produktmanagern und auch bei den Designern mit am engsten dran. Es ist auch das, wo wir natürlich auch, wo jemand wie ich mit meinem Hintergrund, den ich eben beschrieben hab, am ehesten mitreden kann. Mhm. Das heißt, es ist, mal beim Beispiel Bilob zu bleiben, wo ich eben hands on mit dabei bin. Es ist absolut normal, dass ich mit Entwicklern und Produktmanagerin, dass wir auch physisch einfach zusammensitzen, über die Schulter gucken, Designs angucken, Entscheidungen gemeinsam treffen, also wirklich zusammen im Gespräch und Hands on. Bevor wir gleich auf das Thema kommen, weil ich glaub, dann ergibt sich auch noch die ein oder andere Antwort für das, was Fabi grade gefragt hat, hätt ich noch eine oder vielleicht 2 Fragen zu dem Thema AI, weil Du's grade auch schon wieder erwähnt hattest als 1 von diesen neuen Themen, die man sich jetzt halt auch mal anschauen muss und das irgendwie da mit mit reinbringen muss. Ich muss ehrlich sagen, dass so meine Steuererklärung nicht das erste Thema ist, das mir einfällt, wenn ich an an AI denke Und AI ja grade so in seinen Kinderschuhen noch eher dafür bekannt war, herumzufantasieren, als irgendwie fachlich korrekte Antworten zu liefern. Wie nähert ihr euch denn dem Thema, wenn grade bei euch so Korrektheit ja eigentlich das oberste dogmatische Gebot sein muss? Ja, absolut. In zweierlei Hinsicht. Also zum einen haben wir tatsächlich den Anspruch, dass wir in der Lage sind, mithilfe von ai fachlich korrekte Inhalte an den Kunden ranzubringen, ohne zu fantasieren, ja. Da sind wir dann auch wieder da sind wir wieder bei unserer technischen ai Infrastruktur, die wir aufgebaut haben und weiter am Ausbauen sind, wo wir natürlich die komplette Kontrolle über die Inhalte haben. Ja, und da liegt es dann an uns, ob fantasie wird oder nicht. Zum anderen ist es aber natürlich auch einfach, ich sag mal, ein ein UX Hilfsmittel. Wie cool ist es, wenn Du deine Software einfach fragen kannst, hey, ich hab hier jetzt diese Ausgabe. Soll ich die jetzt überhaupt scannen? Lohnt sich das? Oder wenn umgekehrt die Software dich zurückfragt, hey, dies kann dies oder jenes bedeuten, ja? Was ist denn jetzt tatsächlich hiermit gemeint? Was für eine Art von Ausgabe war das? Oder wenn die Software sagt, hey, Du bist jetzt irgendwie noch noch mal 10 Jahre älter und Du hast 'n Job, mit dem bist Du höchstwahrscheinlich Bildschirmarbeiter. Kann es vielleicht sein, dass Du eine Gleitsichtbrille hast, die Du noch nicht angegeben hast? Mhm. Also insofern, ich glaube, Steuererklärung ist eigentlich prädestiniert für dieses Thema, denn Du hast ja ganz oft, wenn Du heute, ich sag mal irgendwie son Interview oder dialogbasierte Herangehensweise hast, hast, wo die Software dich was fragt und Du entweder ja nein sagst oder irgendwas eintipperst. Was Du denkst, ist in der Regel nicht ja nein, sondern ganz oft überlegst Du ja, hm, ist das jetzt so? Was ist denn was ist denn jetzt mit die mit diesem oder jedem Sachverhalt? Ist es ist es ein ja nein, was geborene ich dir richtigerweise an? Und wenn Du diese Rückfrage einfach stellen kannst in Zukunft, das ist natürlich wahnsinnig wertvoll. Wie ist denn, vielleicht zur Nachfrage. Zu erstens, wie ist denn der aktuelle Roller schon von eurer KI so? Also ist das ein User facing facing Feature oder ist das noch grade im Test? Und dann die Folge darauf, weil Du meintest, ja, ihr seid ja in der Verantwortung, darauf zu gucken, dass da eben kein Quatsch erzählt wird, aber es ist ja jetzt kein unterkomplexes Problem sicherzustellen, dass AI an der Stelle nicht halluziniert. Von daher gerne die Frage so, wie wie stellt ihr's denn sicher so? Und könnt ihr das wirklich? Ja. Also was Du im Moment schon mal draußen sehen kannst, was was schon draußen ist, ist im Moment erst mal unser unser Steuer GPT. Der ist und das ist eigentlich und deswegen ist der besonders wichtig für uns, der ist eigentlich die Grundlage für vieles, was in Zukunft kommt. Das heißt, wenn Du siehst, ob der halluziniert oder nicht, dann wird's auch die Software in Zukunft nicht. Und das Gute ist, wir haben schon 'n guten Qualitätsstand. Wir sind gestartet, da war der Qualitätsstand noch nicht so supergut, ja. Was natürlich schon mal sehr hilft, das System arbeitet nur auf unserem Wissen, den wir ihm geben. Das heißt, der fängt nicht irgendwann der macht kein Internet suchen oder sonst irgendwann fängt nicht noch mal an, irgendwie literisches Steuerrecht auf einmal da mit reinzumixen oder sonst irgendwas, sondern der basiert rein auf unserem Content. Das ist, glaube ich, schon mal sehr wichtig. Dann haben wir noch einiges Weiteres getan. Da muss ich aber sagen, bin ich jetzt son bisschen inhaltlich raus, wie wir wie wir das das Fantasien an der Stelle dann verhindern. Aber dieser Steuer GPT, der jetzt im Moment als als einfache Frage Antwort Maschine funktioniert, der ist am Ende Grundlage, damit Du dann auch in der Software, ich sag mal, dialogbasiert deine Antworten auch geben kannst beziehungsweise auch Fragen aus der Software enthält. Mhm. Und vielleicht eine Frage, ich weiß gar nicht, ob Du diese beantworten kannst oder willst. Was ist denn, welchem Modell liegt das Ganze denn zugrunde? Weil Du jetzt auch grade vorhin meint hast, so, ihr müsst euch über On Premise Gedanken machen oder wo, wie jetzt grade 'n Zugriff von AI, so ist das eigenes Datencenter, wo liegt das? Und unterhalten wir uns da über 'n Open Source Modell oder ist das irgendein gehostetes Modell von einem der großen Anbieter? Ich weiß nicht, ob das Das, was wir bei uns haben, ist all das, was wir bei uns haben. Wir haben die Open Source Modelle für intern. Aber wir sind natürlich auch, da sind wir grade dran, dass wir dass wir natürlich auch Weichen stellen. Also dass sich am Ende der Agent selber die Informationen holt und die LLMs bedient, die er am besten für die für die Beantwortung der Frage braucht oder für für die Ausführung des Tasks braucht. Aber alles, was wir im Moment draußen haben und alles, was irgendwie im Steuerbereich ist, ist wie gesagt am Brem und ist dementsprechend auch Open Source. Okay, verstanden. Cool. Dann würde ich das sagen, können wir doch jetzt gern mal die Abbiegung machen zu Bill Bob, oder? Ja. Und Du hast ja schon, glaub ich, eingangs gesagt, Bilob so als Tool für Rechnungserstellung, ich glaub, für so Freelancer, Selbstständige ist so die die Zielgruppe, ne, wenn ich das richtig im Kopf hatte. Und wenn man sich die die Webseite von von Bilbob anguckt, dann ist da ja Buhr sehr im im Hintergrund und man man sieht sowohl optisch als auch im im Branding als auch in in der Ansprache, dass es schon so sein sein eigenes Produkt ist, seine eigene Firma, Firmenphilosophie son bisschen vielleicht auch dahinter. Wie wie kam es dazu, dass ihr für euch gesagt habt, na ja, das ist ein ein Produkt, das wollen wir irgendwie als eigenes Start-up drehen und nicht hier als Teil von Bool VISO Produkt 37 irgendwie noch noch mit aufbauen. Also ganz so krass, wie Du's jetzt schilderst, sollte es gar nicht sein von bis Protokoll mal. Du siehst es ja zum Beispiel auch daran, Du kannst dich auch mit deinem Konto da einloggen, beziehungsweise wenn Du kein noch kein BULL Konto hast, dann erstellst Du dir auch ein BULL Konto an der Stelle, ja. Dass Du dann auch boolweit nutzen kannst. Und das, glaube ich, korrekterweise zu sagen, es ist auch, glaube ich, gar kein, also rechtlich gesehen ist es immer noch BULL auch hinten dran, der es hat keine eigene rechtliche Entität oder so. Es ist keine eigene Legal Entität, genau. Aber also es ist es wirkt halt so in seiner Ansprache son bisschen, das ist 'n bisschen jünger, das ist 'n bisschen verspielter, das ist 'n bisschen Es soll auch nur mal 'n bisschen mutiger sein, genau. Das Verzeihen, das ist 'n bisschen weniger angestaubt so, ja, vielleicht, ne. Aber aber was steht da für eine Entscheidung hintendran? Also das macht ihr ja nicht für alles, weil ihr habt ja auch unter unter Bool und und Viso einen großen Produktkatalog und da hätte es ja auch einen Teil von werden können. Ist es aber nicht, sondern ihr habt da was ganz Eigenes gemacht. Wie wie wie war das? Ja, es gibt mehrere Gründe dafür. Also zum einen ist es natürlich 'n Stück weit 'n Signaling, sowohl nach innen als auch nach außen. Wir bauen hier bewusst noch mal was ganz anderes, ja. Wir wollen uns hier auch nicht von Konventionen treiben lassen. Gleichzeitig wollen wir das, was wir haben und was uns wertvoll macht und auch, was wir an Infrastrukturintern haben, das wollen wir mitnehmen, wie eben wohl Konto, unsere eigenen Rechenzentren und so weiter. Insofern, es sollte, es hat den Anspruch son bisschen beides aus das Beste aus beiden Welten zu vereinen. Aber klar ist eben, wir wollen hier was wir wollen hier was Neues machen. Wir haben hier 'n Mobile First Produkt. Wir wollen wir haben hier ein Produkt, das wir eigentlich immer mehr mit KI ausstatten. Wir wollen auch gleichzeitig einfach wirklich, wirklich schnell hier sein, Continuous Deployment. Wir wollen mehrmals am Tag releasen, so wie es eben Sinn ergibt und das wollen wir sowohl nach innen als auch nach außen sichtbar machen, dass dass hier noch mal anders gefahren wird auch. Dass es hier eben auch keinen Rhythmus von außen gibt, der uns etwas diktiert. Mhm. Und wie habt ihr diese diese Trennung für euch intern geschaffen? Wie scharf war das? Habt ihr da ein komplett neues Team für eingestellt, vielleicht auch mal bisschen frisches Blut, frisches Mindset reinzukriegen oder habt ihr aus den bestehenden Produkt Teams son bisschen geräubert und gesagt, so, ah, der der würde sich sehr gut da vereignen, hier und der Kollege da drüben doch bestimmt auch und die Kollegin da hinten, die nehmen wir auch noch mit und überall son bisschen was mitgenommen und dann gesagt, okay, das ist jetzt hier euer Raum, euer Stockwerk, euer keine Ahnung was und da könnt ihr schalten und walten, wo ihr wollt oder oder wie wie viel Trennschärfe ist da? Es war Letzteres. Also wir haben kein neues Team eingestellt, absolut nicht. Es war eher, dass wir dass wir geräubert haben. Also ich muss auch sagen, da hab ich son bisschen die die die Macht meines Amtes genutzt und hab gesagt, ich möchte jetzt gern die Besten hier in diesem Raum versammeln. Und ihr habt jetzt auch die Freiheit, aber entsprechend viel Wir erwarten jetzt auch viel, wir haben besonderen Anspruch an dieses Produkt. Und dementsprechend haben wir gesagt, wir bauen hier die Besten der Besten aus, auch was nicht heißt, dass es dass es noch viele weitere von diesen Leuten gibt. Aber wir sind bewusst auch etwas andere Wege gegangen, ja. Zum Beispiel, wir haben bewusst gesagt, okay, wer bei Bilbop mitarbeiten möchte, wir machen jetzt das, was eigentlich heute überhaupt nicht mehr in ist. Wir machen 4 Tage Präsenz, weil wir gesagt haben, wir haben hier 'n neues Produkt. Es ist viel Konzeptionsarbeit. Es wird davon leben, dass die Leute viel miteinander kommunizieren. Wir wollen wir wollen Raum haben mit Whiteboard. Und dieses Whiteboard sollen sich sollen sich die Leute versammeln und gemeinsam schreiben und malen können. Und dafür haben wir gesagt, brauchen wir grade jetzt eine Präsenzkultur. Und damit war das Team auch nicht für jedermann. Nicht jeder wollte das, das war auch völlig okay. Aber die die, die wollten, die haben's aus Überzeugung getan, glaube ich, Klammer auf, Klammer zu, ich denke schon. Und ich bin sehr froh, dass wir es haben. Es ist eine große Geschwindigkeit, die wir dort im Team fahren. Es macht auch viel, viel Spaß. Deswegen also ich bin gerne genau in diesem Team Hands on und ich denke, wir haben auch ja 'n hohes Niveau in allen Positionen, die wir dort haben. Und wenn die dann zusammenkommt, dann entsteht auch wirklich was Gutes. Da auch noch mal zum Verständnis, wie groß ist das BillBob Team so? Viel kleiner, als die meisten Leute denken. Jetzt muss ich durchzählen. Du siehst, ich kann auch durchzählen 6 Leute. Ah, ich hab grad hier, ich hab grad 6 gezeigt so unterm Tisch. Nein, nein, 60. Nee, 5 hatte ich hier gerade so unterm unterm Tisch. Es sind 6, aber wir haben natürlich auch viele Hilfe vom Rest des Unternehmens. Wie gesagt, wir müssen uns keine Rechenzentren kümmern. US, muss man sagen, gehört auch nicht dazu, sondern ist ist Teil unseres unseres eigenen US Teams. Und so haben wir eben noch noch viel Unterstützung und viele Funktionen, die eben ansonsten unternehmensweit angesiedelt sind. Das halten wir zum Verständnis, welche Profession bei den 6 Leuten, also wie viel sind Entwickler designen? Die Entwickler ein Produktmanagement, ein Design. Cool. Ja. Das klingt ähnlich wie bei uns eigentlich. Das klingt nicht für uns. Sehr gute Teamgrößen halten wir auch für sehr sinnvoll, viel schaffen zu können. Ja. Und dieser dieser Modus, den ihr da jetzt gefunden habt, ist das was, wo ihr sagt, den den ziehen wir jetzt durch oder das das ist jetzt das Billbob Modell und das das bleibt quasi so. Vielleicht wird es vielleicht größer, wenn das Produkt auch größer wird. Ja, bis zu 500000000 a yeah. Nein, Scherz. Ja. Also so lang, bis es dann komplett ausgegliedert wird. Oder ist das eher so wie son Inkubator und irgendwann sagt er, na ja, jetzt ist hat das Produkt vielleicht eine gewisse Reife erreicht, eine gewisse Größe, eine gewisse Stabilität und wir holen das quasi zurück nach Hause in Anführungszeichen und dann wird es so ganz normal eingegliedert und verhält sich dann auch mehr so wie der Rest der der Bullteams und der Produkte? Die Wahrheit liegt wird wahrscheinlich in der Mitte liegen. Also das das Ziel ist schon, wir wollen so lang wie möglich agil bleiben. Wir wollen grundsätzlich immer diese Philosophie fahren, dass wir sagen, lieber weniger Leute, dafür die Besten mit dabei. Das ist das ist etwas, was wir durchziehen wollen. Und trotzdem, wenn das Produkt wächst, wenn auch vielleicht die Integration damit dazu den anderen Produkten noch mal stärker ist, egal ob das auf 'ner Produktseite oder auf 'ner Marketingseite, dann wird es sicherlich noch mal näher ranrücken an, ich sag mal, die Standardprozesse im Haus. Und trotzdem ist es immer das Ziel, dass wir, wenn wir ein solches Produkt reinholen, dass das die anderen nach vorne bringt und die Prozesse, die die fahren, die anderen nach vorne bringt. Nicht, dass es dann auf einmal unter sone sone Decke des Standards kommt, ja. Sondern das ist immer das Ziel, dass egal, wo wir Newcomer haben, egal, ob wir neue Teammitglieder haben, ob wir irgendwo 'n neues Produkt mit dabei haben, ja, dass die eigentlich noch mal eine Verbesserung durchführen beim ganzen Rest. Jetzt hast Du schon ganz viele Stellen genannt, wo das ja vorteilhaft war, diese diese Arbeitsweise zu wählen. Ich hab da 2 Fragen zu, die vielleicht auch son bisschen auf die Nachteile zielen. Das eine ist, wenn man jetzt grade, wie Du gesagt hast, eher so aus dem bestehenden Personal räubert und sich da so die die Leute rauspickt, auch wenn man die besten oder die Richtigsten dafür findet, die sind ja doch wahrscheinlich eher noch ein anderes Arbeiten gewohnt. Ich mein das gar nicht wertend, aber halt, ne, mit 500 anderen zusammenarbeitet man halt anders zusammen als mit 5 anderen. Habt ihr da sone gewisse Startphase gehabt, auch so so so son Mindsetwechsel irgendwie zu haben? Sagen okay, das machen wir jetzt anders und hier überlegen wir uns 'n anderen, schlankeren Prozess, nicht per Default so in diese Standardmuster zurückzufallen? Ja, absolut. Also wir haben anfangs auch 'n Stück weit anders gearbeitet, aber nicht so sehr, weil wir gesagt haben, wir wollen jetzt anders sein, es anders sein zu wählen, sondern weil wir gesagt haben, hey, es ergibt jetzt keinen Sinn, wenn wir jetzt von Anfang an irgendwie 'n full flatcht Scrum Prozess fahren, wenn wir noch keine Ahnung haben, wie die Userstory aussieht oder so. Sondern es war tatsächlich ein Hand in Hand arbeiten im Prinzip. Du kannst das so vorstellen, Produktmanagement und Design waren irgendwie so die Schneefräse und die Entwickler sind wie die sind wie der Lkw direkt hinter 5 Meter da hinterhergefahren durch die durch dieselbe Schneise. So liefen die eher zusammen. Gab's da auch son paar Sachen, wo ihr gesagt habt, okay, dieses oder jenes wollen wir auf alle Fälle jetzt mal anders machen und wir wollten schon immer mal, weiß es nicht, nicht Scrum ausprobieren, sondern 'n anderes Lines Modell oder wir wollten schon immer mal 'n anderen Tech Stack und jetzt haben wir die Chance. Also was was ehrlicherweise ja auch nicht immer son eine reine Businessentscheidung ist, sondern einfach auch manchmal so ausm Bauch raus, nicht einfach mal was anderes machen. So, jetzt haben wir die Chance, mal was anderes zu probieren. Gab's so Momente auch? Ja, absolut. Also ich mein, wie Du sagst, wir wir haben auf der grünen Wiese angefangen und das hat uns natürlich jede Menge Möglichkeiten gegeben. Wir haben uns son bisschen, ich hab das damals sogenannte im Alliance Meeting, wir haben uns son bisschen, ist son bisschen das Best of Album der Pool. Also überall, wo wir gesehen haben, dies und jenes hat sich bewährt, egal ob das 'n Prozess ist oder Technologie ist. Das ist dann etwas, das haben wir von Anfang an dort mitnehmen können. Kannst Du, auch wenn wir ja schon am Anfang gesagt hatten, wir sind jetzt kein CTO Special, trotzdem sagen, was dann die, was ist 'n was ist son Technologiestag bei jetzt zum zum Beispiel Billbob? Also ist seid ihr mit 'nem, ja, Du hast also erst mal, ihr seid nur mobile only, ne. Also es gibt keine Nein, wir sind mobile first. Das war zum Beispiel ein Thema. Wir haben wir haben Bilboop einfach, weil wir damit sehr gute Erfahrungen gemacht haben. Wir haben Bilboop als Progress Web App, als PBA aufgebaut. Okay. Das heißt, wir haben Mobile First immer als Design, aber wir haben im Prinzip den gleichen Code auf allen Geräten, egal ob Web oder in der nativen App oder responsive den Web logischerweise. Das war zum Beispiel etwas, was wir vorher in 'nem anderen Produkt, in dem Fall Finanzflick, durch durchgeführt und durchgesetzt hatten und ausgeführt haben, sehr gute Erfahrungen damit gemacht haben. Es hat einfach dafür gesorgt, der Entwicklungs- und der Pflegeaufwand hinterher ist einfach so viel geringer. Die die Komplexität, die Du zu bedenken hast, ist so viel geringer. Du hast in den Apps, Du hast praktisch nur noch sone Art nativen Rahmen mit sehr begrenzten Aufgaben, so was wie Face ID oder so was, ja. Die baust Du im Prinzip drum rum und der ganze Rest ist standardisiert und eine Code Base. Ich glaube, andere anders hätten wir es auch mit der Teamkurse überhaupt nicht geschafft. Ja, weil das ja auch ein, wie wir auch lange vorgegangen sind, auch mit unseren Games, wenn wir sie teilweise vom Web hin ins Nativeportiert haben, dass das auch einfach nur 'n ganz kleiner Webview ist mit 'nem kleinen Rapper und der Rest der des Codes ist gleich. Das hat auf jeden Fall die Vorteile, was Wartbarkeit auf jeden Fall angeht. Man kann mit kleineren Teams sehr viel mehr schaffen, als wenn's verschiedene sind. Genau. Weil ihr grade beide son bisschen bei der Teamgröße wart, wie ist denn so der Wachstumsplan für Bilbop dann innerhalb von Bool? Wenn ihr jetzt zum Beispiel neue Leute brauchen würde oder wollt, ne, hast grad schon darüber gesprochen, dass das ja immer eine sehr bewusste Entscheidung auch sein sollte, wenn man da mehr Leute dazunimmt, Stellt ihr dann als Billbob ein und kriegt ihr dann Bewerbungen für Billbob oder ist das einfach so, Leute bewerben sich bei Bool und dann landen sie vielleicht bei bei VISO oder vielleicht bei Billbob oder oder wie wie wollt ihr wachsen? Vielleicht auch als Kontext, also kannst Du kurz sagen, ich wir haben gar nicht darüber gesprochen, wie lange es Bilbop schon gibt. Also wie wie wie matcheur ist dieses Produktprojekt? Ja. Also Bilbop ist ist ist noch sehr jung. Ich glaub, die Erste, wer's wohnt, die öffentlich wirklich zugänglich war, die man so ganz, ganz vorsichtig beworben haben und so ganz vorsichtig mal raus in die Welt gesetzt haben. Ich glaube, die war aus 'nem November oder Dezember letzten Jahres, also vielleicht son Dreivierteljahr alt oder so was, die allerersten Anfänge. Zu der zu der Frage, wie wir an dieser Stelle auch recruiten, also jeder weiß schon, auf welches Projekt er kommt. Jeder Bewerber, das ist auch schon wichtiger. Er wird auch innerhalb, er lernt auch die Leute aus dem Projekt kennen. Der Teamleiter ist Teil des Interviews. Insofern, Du bewirbst dich nicht blind und dann stehst Du stehst Du morgens hier und wir sagen dir, ja, hupserla, Du bist hier oder hupserla, Du bist leider Du bist in meinem Büro oder Du bist im Steuer oder Du bist im Billbob. So ist es nicht, nee. Aber das heißt, es bewerben sich schon alle erst mal bei Bool sozusagen? Ja gut, Du Du bewirbst dich bei Bool als Unternehmen, aber es ist immer klar, für welches Produkte Du dich bewirbst oder für welches für welches Produkt die Stelle ist. Das meine ich, deswegen Du sprichst ja auch mit deinen zukünftigen Kollegen, lernst die auch kennen und lernst dann auch das Produkt kennen, lernst auch die Technologien kennen beziehungsweise hast dir in der Regel auch ein Skill Set, der genau zu den benötigten Skill Set und Technologien im Produkt passt. Na, ich seh's dir grade auf der Website. Ihr beschreibt schon sehr ausführlich, was die Leute dann eigentlich machen sollen am Ende des Tages. Was interessant? Aber was auch wichtig ist, wir haben tatsächlich intern auch auch Bewegung drin. Das heißt, Leute, die vorher auf auf 'nem Produkt Finanzpflicht waren, sind vielleicht morgen auf 'nem auf 'nem Produkt, mein Verein oder so was. Das ist absolut der Fall. Es ist auch für uns eine gute gute Möglichkeit, den Leuten auch Weiterentwicklung zu ermöglichen, in andere Technologien reinzuschauen. Natürlich auch Aufstiegsmöglichkeiten. Ja, in 'nem kleinen Team hast Du ja eben auch nicht unendlich viele Aufstiegsmöglichkeiten. Da kommt es uns einfach zu Pass und es kommt auch unseren Mitarbeitern immer zu Pass, dass Du eben die Möglichkeit hast, intern sehr viele verschiedene Aufgaben wahrzunehmen. Nicht nur Produkte eben, sondern auch Infrastruktur, klar. Aber wie hast Du denn, weil weil jetzt Du Jan, Du bist ja jetzt schon damit implizit davon ausgegangen, dass für BillBob Leute gesucht werden, Leute eingestellt werden. Ich hatte, glaub ich, die eine Frage Glaub einfach fest an den Erfolg von dem Produkt, Fabi. Das hat ja, aber das hat ja, das 1 der mit dem anderen nix zu tun. Das wär nämlich meine Frage, ob die es auch gut abzielt. So, also ist es denn, weil Du ganz vorne am Anfang im Gespräch hast Du gemeint, ja, kennt ja jede die Situation, ich weiß gar nicht, in welchem Kontext Du es gesagt hattest Du, aber man hat ja immer man hat immer mehr zu tun, hat am liebsten immer mehr Leute, die noch irgendwie sozusagen noch Dinge irgendwie erledigen können so. Und mich würde mal interessieren, hast Du bei Bill Bob dieses Gefühl? Oder hast Du dieses Gefühl, hey, da sitzen jetzt, da sitzt ein Team von 6 Leuten, mit denen werden wir sehr lange sehr gut und schnell entwickeln können. Weil natürlich immer die Problematik ist, sobald Du mit 2, sobald Du mit Scrum entwickelst, sobald Du mit Skate machst und irgendwie 2 Teams hast, so, kommt ja so viel Kommunikationsoberhead mit rein, dass Du ja es eine sehr lange Zeit gibt, wo Du sagen kannst, hey, mit 6 Leuten werd ich so viel schaffen können, sodass es echt die Frage ist, macht's überhaupt Sinn? Also klar, 2, 3 kriegt man vielleicht noch unter, aber irgendwann will's ja an die Grenze kommen so. Wann krieg ich mehr Produktivität rein und wann muss ich wirklich eine ganze Ecke mehr Leute drauf geben, dass ich dieses Produktivitätseinbuße durch Kommunikationsoberhead überhaupt wieder drin hab? Also die Frage, ist überhaupt der da, mittelfristig als Leute einzustellen oder siehst Du dieses Modell längerfristig so für Billbob, was die Teamgröße angeht? Ja, ich glaub, das ist 'n Punkt, der hat sich jetzt grade in den letzten ein, 2 Jahren deutlich geändert. Du siehst Du siehst natürlich heute die ganzen die ganzen AI Tools draußen. Wir haben nach dem Motto, wir haben ein mit einem Vollzeit und 1 einem Azubi haben wir innerhalb von anderthalb Wochen auf 100000000 AR AR AR AR oder so was, ja. Du siehst halt diese diese ganzen Stories von diesen extrem kleinen Teams, wo ich ehrlich gesagt vorsichtig bin, wo ich mir denke, okay, Du hast eine 100000000 ARA Unternehmen und ihr seid 20, wenn das wirklich stimmt, ja. Gesund kann das nicht sein. Angenommen, ihr habt irgendwann mal ein Problem, wie wollt ihr mit 20 Leuten diese riesige Menge an Kunden, die ihr habt, wie wollt ihr denen ordentlich noch Support geben? Wie wollt ihr die noch ordentlich unterstützen oder so? Wenn irgendwann mal was nicht ganz nach Plan geht, also das halt ich nicht für für gesund. Aber auf der anderen Seite glaube ich, dass Du heute mit weniger Leuten sehr viel weiterkommst als früher. Die Produktivität jedes Einzelnen, nicht nur nicht nur 1 Entwicklers, sondern eben auch 1 Designers und 1 Produktmanagers beginnt ja jetzt schon zu steigen und wird sicherlich auch noch mal steigen jetzt in den nächsten in den nächsten Jahren. Das heißt, ich glaub, Du kannst sehr viel mehr bewegen mit weniger Leuten, als das noch vor einiger Zeit möglich war. Und ich bin sehr froh über diese Entwicklung, gar nicht mehr so sehr irgendwie aus Kosten oder aus betriebswirtschaftlichen Gründen, sondern eben, wie Du sagst, es es hält die Komplexität gering, ja? Du hast weniger Wege, wenig Kommunikationswege, weniger Ansprechpartner. Aber irgendwann wird sicherlich ein Punkt kommen, da wo's da musst Du sagen, okay, es war bis hierhin sinnvoll und jetzt fangen wir an, uns selber zu beschränken und jetzt müssen wir auch mehr Leute aufbauen. Jetzt muss es vielleicht 'n zweites Entwicklungsteam sein. Und ich glaube, es ist genauso schädlich, wenn Du diesen Punkt ignorierst, der guten alten Zeitenbildung und des wohllieben Gefühls das Miteinanderwägen. Und aber versteh ich's jetzt richtig, wenn ich das zwischen den Zeilen rausstehe, dass Du sagst, dieses Setup, wie ihr's jetzt habt, ist überhaupt erst möglich geworden durch AI? Würdest Du sagen, vor 3 Jahren hättest Du in dem Set-up noch 'n Billbob noch nicht so entwickeln können? Nee, nee, das nee, nee, so weit nee. So weit würd ich nicht gehen. Du hättest Du kannst sicher immer schon, Du konntest auch schon vor 10 Jahren mit 'nem sechsterteam weit kommen. Ich glaube nur, dieses sechster Team ist heute jetzt schon produktiver oder hat zumindest die Möglichkeiten, produktiver zu sein, als das noch vor wenigen Jahren der Fall sein war. Und ich glaube, das wird noch weiter zunehmen. Ich glaube, dank TUMING, dank AI wird auch nächstes Jahr werden wir nächstes oder übernächstes Jahr hier sitzen und sagen, okay, wir sind noch mal produktiver geworden und wir kommen insofern als nächstes Team jetzt noch mal weiter, als es vor einigen Jahren noch der Fall gewesen wäre. Ich müsste aber auch später die Frage sozusagen stellen, wann ihr eskaliert, weil ihr länger Genau. Die Produktivität hochhäuten könnt. Genau. Aber dass Du mit dem Sechster Team gut starrtest und gut weit kommen kannst, das war sicherlich schon immer so. Ja, aber ich glaube, dieser Punkt mit 6 Leute tragen dich heute einfach, weiß nicht, doppelt fünfmal so lange wie früher, das ist, glaub ich, der entscheidende Unterschied. Ja. So. Ich würd gern den den BillBob Kreis schließen, so, weil Du vorhin gesagt hast, wenn man so ein ein Start-up, ein unabhängiges Produktteam wieder zurückführen würde, würde man das nur machen, wenn es alle anderen auch weiterbringt, ja. Wie könnte denn son Szenario aussehen? Hattet ihr so was schon mal? Habt ihr da Kriterien für, was ihr euch wünschen? Was könnte eine Bereicherung sein, die ein ein Billbob oder vergleichbare Projekte zurück zum großen Bool bringen? Ja. Das kann auf jeder Ebene sein. Aber jetzt nehmen wir mal Themen wie wie AI Funktionalität, wo wir ja auch bewusst ja bei Willwolf sagen, hey, auch hier können wir noch mal Bayer agieren. Hier müssen wir nicht unbedingt in unserem On Preme AI Stack unterwegs sein. Hier können wir irgendwie an irgend 'n Public LLM gehen oder wegen an 5 oder oder 10, ja. Grade das, was grade möglich ist und was uns am weitesten bringt. Diese Erfahrung, die wir haben, das ist zum Beispiel etwas, was Du wieder mit zurückbringen kannst, ja. Wo andere vielleicht auch sagen, hey, wir haben bisher uns eben, kehrt, wenn jetzt am Anfang, immer als diejenigen verkauft, die ausschließlich und immer alles auf den eigenen Rechenzentren in Deutschland hosten. Wo wir jetzt sagen können, hey, ja, aber hier hast Du vielleicht eine Möglichkeit gefunden, dass die wichtigen Sachen immer noch hier bleiben, Du aber trotzdem durch Pseudonyme, pseudonymisierte Daten oder was auch immer andere Möglichkeiten noch mal nutzen kannst. Und wir haben's dir vorgemacht und schau mal, es funktioniert und die Kundenakzeptanz ist da. Dann lass es uns jetzt auch in größerer Skalierung machen. Selbes natürlich dann für Prozesse, für die Art und Weise, wie Teams miteinander arbeiten et cetera et cetera. Ich glaube, Du kannst immer, wenn Du 'n junges Team hast, das dich irgendwo bewährt hast und 'n junges Projekt, 'n junges Produkt, ich glaube, das hat immer den großen Vieh was zu geben. Aber das auch mal zu sagen, umgekehrt ganz genauso. Wir sind grade jetzt bei Billwob in der Phase, wo wir wo wir eben auch viel Buchhaltungsfunktionalität einbauen, was man nach außen noch nicht sehen kann, denn es ist immer etwas ungünstig, sone Viertelbuchhaltung zu releasen. Wo wir umgekehrt sagen, wir müssen jetzt ganz, ganz viel aus anderen Bereichen, auch aus dem Steuerbereich lernen und sagen, okay, was ist für euch der Anspruch an Qualität? Wo sagt ihr, okay, das müssen wir alles noch mitnehmen, ja? Und diese letzte Wendung, die müssen wir auch noch mal bedenken und dieser Edge Case, den werden wir jetzt auch abbilden, einfach weil das unser Anspruch ist. Und da sind wir grade total in der Lernphase. Jetzt ist jetzt ist der Drehpunkt, wo wo wir dann auch sagen, okay, jetzt mal vorwärts brechen als kleines Inhouse Start-up ist gut und schön. Aber das bedeutet nicht, dass wir hier oberflächlich sein können, ganz im Gegenteil. Mhm. Du sprichst ja noch 'n interessantes Thema an, nämlich so Qualitätssicherung. Der das Gros der Firmen da draußen betreibt, glaub ich, 2 Arten von Qualitätssicherung. Gar keine. Oder es gibt sone dedizierte Tester Rolle, das sind meistens vielleicht son bisschen eher einstiegsjuniorigere Rollen, die einfach so damit beauftragt werden, ja, klickt halt mal hier son bisschen in unsere App rum und versucht sie mal son bisschen kaputt zu machen und meldet uns, was ihr so für Fehler findet. Das ist, zumindest in meiner Consultingzeit sind's das so, die steckt, glaub ich, 90 Prozent der Firmen da draußen ab. Bei euch stell ich's mir sehr anders vor, ja, weil ja a eure Testcases wahrscheinlich unglaublich komplex sind und ja allein auch die Validierung von na ja, dem, was da rauskommt und ist das richtig oder nicht, ja auch unglaublich viel Fachwissen und Expertise erfordert. Also wer testet bei euch und wie? Ja. Du musst eben, Du hast es Du hast die Frage wie bisschen selbst mit mit beantwortet. Du musst 'n bisschen unterscheiden zwischen denen, was was in Anführungsstrichen eine normale Software QS macht und was vielleicht fachliche Tests sind. Diese fachlichen Tests, die müssen auch tatsächlich von Fachexperten sein. Umgekehrt haben wir aber auch Leute, die beides sind, ja? Die vielleicht auch schon lange im Unternehmen sind, die auch die Fachlichkeit mittlerweile voll drauf haben, die beides 'n Stück weit erfüllen können. Aber generell musst Du zwischen diesen Rollen unterscheiden oder Du musst zumindest mal klar definieren, wer macht hier die fachlichen Tests? Und wie gesagt, dafür haben wir auch grade grade im Steuerbereich, aber auch auch in der Buch im im Buchhaltungsbereich haben wir Fachleute, die teilweise sogar Steuerberaters sind, die die 'n Fachwirt haben, Steuerfachleute. Also insofern, die Expertise musst Du dann schon an Bord haben, ohne geht es nicht. Mhm. Und wenn wir schon bei dem Thema Qualität sind, Du hast vorhin auch gesagt so, ihr habt auch Fehler gemacht und das gehört dazu, ne. Nur aus Fehlern lernt man ja am Ende des Tages auch. Hast Du so einen Punkt, wo Du zurückdenkst und sagst, boah, in dem Moment, als das aufgekommen oder passiert oder entschieden wurde, hat das megadramatisch gewirkt, aber rückblickend war das eigentlich eine sehr wichtige Lektion oder son Moment, wo man immer wieder dran zurückgehen kann und son bisschen reflektiert was mitnehmen kann. Die schweren Fragen kommen immer am Ende. Ja, ist eine gute Frage, ich sag mal so. Du sagst ja, aus jedem Fehler lernst Du, aber ich würd's 'n bisschen relativieren. Oft lernst Du ja nicht aus den einzelnen Fehlern, oft lernst Du ja aus mehreren Fehlern, zu verstehen, okay, was ist der grundsätzliche falsche Denkansatz, der diesen der diesen Fehlern gemein war? Ja. Beispiel Technologieentscheidungen, wo Du sagst, okay, ich hab mich jetzt für irgend 'n heißen Scheiß entschieden und 2 Jahre später musste ich wieder feststellen, okay, wir waren irgendwie mit den Einzigen, die das genommen haben und wahrscheinlich haben sie auch noch falsch verwendet. So war's überhaupt nicht gedacht, ja. Und wenn Du siehst, das ist irgendwie 'n Stück weit 'n Denkmuster oder dir ist das mehrmals passiert, dann kannst Du ja in Zukunft auch drauf achten, ja. Also insofern, ich würde sagen, aus der aus der Summe der Fehler lernt man. Das ist schön. Ja. Und gab's denn, weil Du ja so meintest so zu bestimmten Zeiten darf's keine Releases geben zu diesen Abgabezeiten und so weiter. Gab's denn, was diese harten Anforderungen gab mal irgendwelche sehr kopfschmelze Fuck ups auf eurer Seite so, wo Also ich mein, in 40 Jahren kann ja dann doch mal auch was schief gehen, auch wenn man probiert, es nicht nichts falsch zu machen, also irgendwie keine Ahnung, wo am Ende jeder 'n kleinen Fehler in seiner Steuererklärung hatte. Gab's so was mal? Oh Gott, das klingt schon sehr hart, aber geh ja grade. Ja, ja. Also in jeder kleinen Fehler hatten wir in der in der Form nicht, aber wir haben zum Beispiel auch jetzt gehabt, wir hatten, wann war's? Ich glaub so. Es waren noch 14 Tage, 3 Wochen vor der Deadline. Da waren wir tatsächlich, ging wir mal eine Viertelstunde offline. Klingt nicht so furchtbar, aber wenn Du mal bei uns im Servicecenter guckst, ja. Wenn wenn Du mal davon ausgehst, nur ein Prozent der Kunden würde anrufen, wir könnten dieses Volumen auf Monate wahrscheinlich nicht mehr handeln. Und deswegen ist selbst ein Fehler, der nicht alle betrifft, ist bei uns ganz schnell ganz schön schmerzhaft. Also das das war jetzt mal 'n Beispiel gewesen, wo wir alle nur heilfroh waren. Gut, dass es irgendwie am, ich weiß nicht mehr, wann es war, am zwölften Achten passiert ist und nicht am dreißigsten oder noch schlimmer am einunddreißigsten Achten. Also insofern, die haben wir die haben wir regelmäßig, wir versuchen den den dieser Fehler einfach nur zu verringern und das Risiko zu verringern, dass das eben viele betrifft oder zu falschen Zeiten kommt. Und nur als Folgefrage noch zu dem, wo Du als Beispiel meintest so, dass man zu früh auf Technologie und neue Technologien gedacht hast, der neueste heiße Scheiß hat's vielleicht auch noch falsch benutzt. Und aus diesen Fehlern in der Summe lernt man. Ist es denn so, dass ihr aus so Technologiefehlentscheidung irgendwie allgemeinere Ableitung getroffen habt, wie es gibt nur noch ein definiertes Text Stack oder irgendwas so? Ist das wirklich ein Fehler, aus dem ihr, aus dem 1 Entscheidung irgendwie resultiert ist, was jetzt so Text Stack angeht? Ja. Also wir haben bewusst kein ganz fest definiertes Text Deck, ja. Jetzt ist es natürlich auch nicht so, dass wir jetzt irgendwie alle 3 Monate eine neue Software launchen, wo wir komplett neue neues Text Deck verwenden können. Aber ich glaube schon, dass wir gelernt haben auf den richtigen Mix aus, hat sich etabliert und ist verbreitet und auch zum Beispiel findest Du Entwickler für zu achten Ja. Versus es wird uns auch in die Zukunft tragen. Ja, also insofern auch das sind Text Tech Fehlentscheidungen, die wir gehabt haben, dass wir gesagt haben, wir setzen hier auf etwas und hinterher findest Du keine Leute, die die damit umgehen können oder die es lernen müssen. Und das ist fast so tödlich, als wenn's einfach technologisch eine schlechte Entscheidung war. Wir haben das Gespräch angefangen mit wie wie ihr früher mal Microsoft Lizenzen irgendwie verkauft habt und das Wichtigste war, dass ihr die Lizenzen und die Zertifikate sauber aufhebt, ja. Und das ist natürlich zu heute 20, 25 Jahre später 'n ganz schön großer Wandel so, ja. Wie stellst Du dir Bool in den nächsten 20, 25 Jahren vor? In den nächsten 20, 25 Jahren? Also Jan, ganz ehrlich, ich bin ich bin heilfroh, wenn ich irgendwie eine grobe Vorstellung hab, was vielleicht in den nächsten 2 Jahren passiert. Das ist das ohne Flachs jetzt ist das 'n Zeithorizont, über den denke ich ganz bewusst nicht nach, denn ich sehe einfach, wir sind, das haben wir ja gesagt, ist ja auch das Spannende an unserem Business, wir sind in einem solchen High Velocity Business, das sich das sich ständig wieder verändert. Also die nächsten 20, 25 Jahre kann ich dir kann ich dir nicht sagen, will ich auch nicht in Die lasse ich auch 'n Stück weit bewusst auf mich zukommen. Das ist 'n Weg, den den müssen wir beim Gehen finden. Das haben wir immer schon so gemacht und wir haben als Unternehmen haben wir immer tiefgreifende Veränderungen gehabt, wie zum Beispiel, weil Du grad das Microsoft Geschäft angesprochen hast. Dieses Microsoft Geschäft haben wir irgendwann komplett aufgegeben, weil es einfach faktisch nicht mehr existierte. Das war unser größte unser unsere größte Umsatzsäule damals gewesen. Die haben wir praktisch mit Software, eine eigene Software uns erst mal wieder mühsam neu erarbeiten müssen. Und diese Art von Umbrüchen, die haben wir die haben wir mehrmals gehabt und die wird auch immer wiederkommen. Und deswegen sehe ich es als als meine Aufgabe, dass dass wir dir auch, dass ich dafür sorge, dass wir die Augen aufhalten, dass wir sehen, wenn ein solcher Umbruch wiederkommt und ich glaube jetzt, dass wir mit dem Thema AI einen solchen Umbruch haben, einfach eine Art und Weise, wie ich Software verwende, wie ich Software bediene, wie ich mit Software umgehe, weil ich von Software erwarte. Und ich ich deswegen bin ich heifroh, wenn man diesen nächsten Umbruch, ja, wenn wenn wir auf dieser Welle surfen und uns diese Welle nicht überrollt. Das ist das ist ja gut, dass das euer euer Fokuspunkt. Das hätte ja auch sein können, dass ihr jetzt doch Angst habt, dass, weiß ich nicht, Friedrich Schmelz die Steuererklärung aufm Bierdeckel durchsetzt und so euer Geschäftsmodell wegbricht auf einmal, ja? Das kann passieren. Also ehrlich gesagt, ich glaube nicht, dass das passieren wird. Ich glaube, es gibt andere Faktoren, die dazu beitragen können, wie zum Beispiel Personalnot beim Finanzamt oder so. Aber auch das wäre etwas, von dem ich glaube, das würden wir das würden wir überstehen. Dafür haben wir einige dieser Umbrüche hinter uns und ich wäre ich bin guter Hoffnung, dass wir selbst so etwas Fundamentales wegstecken können, ist der falsche Ausdruck, dass wir damit umgehen könnten, ja, dass wir dann neue Wege finden würden. Das ist, glaub ich, 'n sehr schönes Schlusswort. Definitiv. Aber wir sind nicht am Ende, weil, Fabi, was kommt noch? Die letzte Frage? Die Schnellfragerunde. Die Schnellfragerunde. Mehrere Fragen. Ich war schon lange nicht mehr im City Ost Special. Fabi müssen eingerostet, aber wir machen das noch. Ja, wir haben ja eigentlich auch noch, ist sie nicht mehr aktiv, die die letzte Frage in der im City Ost Special? Die haben wir nicht mehr. Wieso was? Wenn Du einen Tipp an der Demo, was ich geben würdest, eigentlich hatten wir sone Frage auch, weil natürlich Ja, dann bitte, jetzt stellen. Das ist immer die letzte Frage. Was was willst Du jetzt zuerst machen? Die Schnellfragerunde oder die letzte Frage? Jetzt hast Du mich aus sonem Konzept gebracht. Wir machen Mach deine Schnellfragerunde. Wir machen die Schnellfragerunde zuerst und dann darfst Du damit den Abschluss machen. Okay, also eine Reihe entweder oder fragen Moritz, ohne lange zu überlegen. Entweder Hund oder Katze? Hund, ganz klar. Tee oder Kaffee? Kaffee. Auto oder Fahrrad? Ich lieb beides. Lassen wir mal ausnahmsweise gelten. Mac oder Windows oder Linux? Keine Ahnung, was ihr benutzt. Windows. Nicht Windows. Marketing, Design, alle Mac mittlerweile über viele. IOS oder Android? IOS. Büro oder remote? Büro. Native Apps oder Web? Was haben wir eben gesagt? Web mit dem Teamrahmen. Wunderbar. Teamwork oder Individualist? Ich muss mich entscheiden wollen. Was wär hilfreicher? Ja, dann nehme ich Teamwork E-Mail. Start-up oder Konzern? Start-up. Cool, das war die Schnellfragerunde. Das war die Schnellfragerunde, ja. Und eigentlich hören wir das CTO Special auf immer son bisschen mit, wir fangen wir fingen ja mit klein an, wie war dein Erstkontakt zu Technologie und hören auf, was würdest Du deinem kleinen Ich noch mal ins Ohr flüstern, wenn Du ihm jetzt noch mal einen kleinen Tipp mit deinen dann jetzt Was hatten wir hatten wir gesagt? So knapp 40. Habt ihr's gestimmt oder knapp drunter, so in die in die richtigen? Ja, nein. Noch 38, genau. Noch 38, ja, dann alle ungefähr das Ergebnis. So war ja alle gut dabei. Wenn Du da noch mal flüstern könntest in das in deinen in das Ohr deines jüngeren und ich so, gib's einen Tipp, den Du irgendwie mitgeben könntest, irgendwas was Du vielleicht, irgend 'n Fehler, den man vermeiden kann, irgendwas, was Du heute anders machen würdest mit deinem Wissen, wenn Du zurückblicken kannst. Gibt's da was? Ja, ich glaub, ich will 2 2 Dinge 2 Dinge fallen mir ein. Der erste Punkt ist, wenn Du irgendwo eigentlich weißt, dass etwas die richtige Entscheidung ist, auch wenn sie schwer ist, dann triff sie. Du musst sie früher oder später sowieso treffen und eine harte Entscheidung früher zu treffen, ist immer besser, als eine harte Entscheidung später zu treffen. Das ist Tipp Nummer 1. Tipp Nummer 2, vertraue. Was ich damit meine, ich bin bekennender Christ und ich weiß, dass mein Leben in Gottes Hand ist und ich glaube an Gottes Führung für mein Leben. Und trotzdem ist es oft so, Du hast irgendwie 'n Ereignis grad auf der Arbeit, kann aber auch privat sein, ja? Und Du Du denkst natürlich dadrüber nach und Du grübelst und Du machst dir Sorgen und Du stellst alles auf den Prüfstand. Und Du stellst auf einmal die ganz allgemeinen Fragen nach dem Motto, mach ich hier das Richtige? Wird das Unternehmen? Morgen bleibt es sein, ja? Und da ist etwas, wo ich sagen muss, nimm's locker. Es geht vorbei und Du weißt dich unter dieser Führung, vertrau dich dieser dieser Führung Gottes an. Und Du weißt auch, dann wird es 'n guter Weg gehen. Und dieses Vertrauen, das würd ich, meinem Jungen sollen ich, glaub ich, noch mal mitgeben. Sind auf jeden Fall 2 sehr gute und allgemeingültige Aussagen, glaub ich. Grade, der erste Teil, wenn jetzt wenn wir jetzt nicht schon am Ende wären, könnt ich da auf jeden Fall noch mal sehr viel weiter reinfragen, welche Entscheidungen es bei dir waren. Aber ich finde trotzdem ist doch ein, lass lass uns lieber belassen bei dabei, weil ich glaub, das können sich viele von uns mitnehmen. Na ja, also wir haben ja grad schon gesagt, wir wissen nicht, wie es in 20 Jahren aussieht, also müssen wir 'n Follow-up machen zu dieser Folge in 20 Jahren. Ja, dann. Ja. Und die helfen dir auch ab jetzt noch mal wahrscheinlich für die nächsten 20 Jahre, diese beiden, sie immer mal Ich glaub, in 20 Jahren gibt's noch 'n Podcast Format. Wahrscheinlich gibt's oder wenn da was ganz anderes Ich mein, Bull wird's eher geben als unseren Podcast. Das ist auf jeden Fall schon mal eine Oh, jetzt bin ich 'n bisschen den Hals getroffen, Fabi, muss ich sagen. Ja, aber da würde ich sag, einmal nur weniger Arbeit für uns automatisch generieren. Ich hab aufs Format auch nur angespielt, wollt ich nur mal sagen. Ja. Wunderbar. Und wir sehen's ja in den 20 Jahren, wie's dann wie's dann aussieht. Auf alle Fälle dir heute schon mal supervielen Dank, Moritz, für die Zeit, die Du dir genommen hast, für die Fragen, für Rede und Antwort, die Du gestanden hast. Ja, vielen Dank. Allen da draußen vielen Dank, dass Sie wieder zugehört haben. Ihr könnt uns jederzeit erreichen auf Social Media, auf unserem Discord Server. Ihr könnt uns E-Mails schreiben an Podcast at Programmier Punkt bar. Wir freuen uns immer über Feedback, Vorschläge, Anregungen, Kritik aller Art und selbst wenn ihr uns nicht schreibt, wir hören uns so oder so in ein paar Wochen hier wieder. Genau. Bis dann. Bis dahin. Moritz, vielen Dank in der Bar. Danke euch, mein Name. Viel Spaß gemacht. Tschau, bis bald und tschau 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0: Hallo und herzlich willkommen zu einem neuen CTO Special in der Programmierbar. Heute schon das, oh je, ich weiß jetzt gar nicht, ich hab gar nicht drauf, bevor Sechsunddreißigste oder so was.\n\nSpeaker 1: Irgendwas in der Richtung vielleicht?\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, auf alle Fälle über 30 und unter 40 irgendwo dazwischen sind wir. Das ist ja auch 'n gutes Alter immer, ne. Ja. Fühl ich mich auch wohl mit. Aber ich glaube, es grenzt so langsam an Verpackungsbetrug, was wir hier machen.\n\nIch hab nämlich eben mal nachgeschaut, dass es wieder ein CTO Special mit jemandem zu Gast, der offiziell zumindest gar keinen CTO Titel hat und das schon zum, ich glaub, vierten Mal in Folge jetzt. Also wir müssen uns 'n neues Naming überlegen, Fabi, für dieses Format.\n\nSpeaker 1: Das C-Special. Das CTO Special. Das Irgendwas mit C beginnt, wo das auch hier, ja.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja. Oder wir haben heute zu Gast im Podcast bei uns den Moritz Buhl. Hallo Moritz, schön, dass Du Zeit für uns hast.\n\nSpeaker 2: Hi, schön, dass ich bei euch sein darf.\n\nSpeaker 0: Wunderbar. Ich hoffe, Du fühlst dich nicht unter dem Wertverkauf, wenn wir jetzt gesagt haben, das ist gar kein echtes CTO Special, so war das überhaupt gar nicht gemeint. Wir sind ja immer froh und happy damit, wenn Leute mit uns reden, die son bisschen anderen Blickwinkel auf Software und Softwareentwicklung, das ganze Ökosystem haben, auf Produktentwicklung und freuen uns eigentlich immer, wenn Leute aus, wie Fabi grade gesagt hat, so, Sea Level Führungsebene, Leadership zu uns kommen und mit uns 'n bisschen quatschen.\n\nSpeaker 2: Also ich fühl mich überhaupt nicht unter Wert verkauft, ganz im Gegenteil. Ich Das t in dem CDO hat mir ja im Vorfeld eher Angst gemacht. Insofern bin ich heilfroh, dass Du das auch direkt direkt so korrekt anmoderiert hast, nicht, dass die Erwartungshaltung hier eine Falsche ist. Aber dafür kann ich glänzen mit der guten Zahl zwischen 30 und 40. Das persönlich ganz gut zu meinem Alter auch.\n\nSpeaker 0: Wunder, wunderbar. Bevor wir über Leadership und und Firmen und alles sprechen, Moritz, erzähl uns doch mal, was hat so eigentlich dein Interesse an an Computer und und und Software geweckt? Gab's da so diesen einen Moment, an den Du dich irgendwie zurückerinnern kannst, wo Du das pinpointen kannst? Oder ist das was, was dich so ganz organisch anderweitig ergeben hat oder erst sehr spät? Wie wie war das bei dir?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, es ist mir insofern ein bisschen in die Wiege gelegt. Tatsächlich sind wir etwas als Unternehmen, wir sind etwas, glaub ich, Besonderes, was es so häufig in Deutschland nicht gibt. Wir sind ein Software Familienunternehmen. Normalerweise gibt's entweder Familienunternehmen oder Softwareunternehmen. Beides ist, glaub ich, recht selten und ich bin zweite Generation jetzt tatsächlich.\n\nMein Vater hat das Unternehmen gegründet und ich bin mittlerweile jetzt seit 2019 in der Geschäftsführung, auch seit einigen Jahren allein im Sinne von, dass mein Vater mittlerweile in Rente ist. Und insofern bin ich mit dem Thema Software immer schon aufgewachsen. Ich bin allerdings auch überhaupt kein Techy, aber war immer schon super softwarinteressiert. Damals war das immer so, wir haben als wohl Dataservice, wir haben zum großen Teil von den Testberichten gelebt, die so in den ganzen PC Magazinen immer da waren. Und dann gab's irgendwie gefühlt wöchentlich kamen immer so 2, 3 Hefte mit nach Hause, die mein Vater dann immer an mich weitergereicht hat.\n\nUnd ich hab die eigentlich alle verschlungen. Und das waren so meine ersten Berührungspunkte. Vielleicht nicht so sehr mit Programmieren, wie das wahrscheinlich bei vielen anderen, die hier im Podcast sind, der Fall ist, sondern sehr stark mit, was die Software eigentlich selbst angeht, was was UX angeht, was die Funktionalität selbst angeht. Wie gewinnt man Testsieg? Was passiert, wenn man doch mal leider nur Zweiter ist?\n\nDas waren eigentlich so die Themen, mit denen ich aufgewachsen bin. Und deswegen war ich immer schon an der Software dran, aber wahrscheinlich 'n bisschen über einen ungewöhnlichen Weg.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ich find das superspannend, weil Du's ja auch eben grade gesagt hast, ne, es gibt in Deutschland Softwarefirmen und so Familienbetrieb, aber irgendwie nicht so beides zusammen. Ich glaube tatsächlich, Moritz Buhrl, Data ist die erste Firma, die wir hier oder ne, die erste Firma, über die wir hier so sprechen, die älter ist als wir. Kann das sein? Oder ich lehm mich mal weit ausm Headset, ich hab gar nicht auf Kopf, Fabi, was so dein Jahrgang ist. Aber Buhrl ist auf alle Fälle älter als ich.\n\nSpeaker 1: Gut, dann demnächst auch älter als ich, weil ich bin jünger als Du, aber ob jetzt, wie alt alle anderen Firmen waren? Du, ich kann dir in der Historie kann ich jetzt nicht so genau zurückblicken, aber Es\n\nSpeaker 0: gibt vielleicht so Otto und die Bahn. So, das sind vielleicht so, aber die sind ja keine keine klassischen Softwarunternehmen, ne.\n\nSpeaker 1: Die sind da ja\n\nSpeaker 0: so, ich sag mal, reingestolpert, aber aber BUELL ist ja, also Softwareunternehmen von Anfang an eigentlich gewesen. Ja. Und vielleicht hatten wir doch nicht.\n\nSpeaker 1: Das, ja, das definitiv nicht. Aber vielleicht können wir ja, das haben wir, glaub ich, am Anfang jetzt auch gar nicht so ins Detail reingegangen. Gut, dass wir schon mal verstanden haben, wie Du grundsätzlich zur Software kamst. Aber vielleicht, Moritz, kannst Du noch mal 1, 2 Sätze für die da draußen, die den Bool dann doch kein Begriff sein sollte, erzählen, was genau Bool ist und was denn eure Software ist, die ihr die ihr hauptsächlich Entwickler, mit der ihr bekannt geworden seid.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, genau. Also im Vergleich zu Otto und der Deutschen Bahn sind wir wahrscheinlich doch eher nur Teenager, aber wir feiern als Unternehmen tatsächlich nächstes Jahr Vierzigjähriges. Wir sind aber nicht immer, ich sag mal, ein ein klassisches Softwareunternehmen, Softwarehaus gewesen. Tatsächlich haben wir am Anfang sehr auf Softwarevertrieb fokussiert, haben auch früher viel Microsoft Geschäft gehabt. Das heißt, wir waren eigentlich der Microsoft Vertriebspartner für den ganzen Emir Raum gewesen.\n\nDas heißt, wenn ihr irgendwie eine Windows CD euch besorgt habt inklusive Echtheitszertifikat, dann kam die über uns. Insofern, wir waren jetzt anfangs zugegebenermaßen vor 40 Jahren auch nicht das reinrassige Softwareunternehmen. Aber wenn Du so willst, waren wir immer irgendwo ja softwaregetrieben. Und ja, was wir machen heute, was uns der Schwerpunkt ist, ist zum einen innerhalb der BULDATA Service sind wir wahrscheinlich am meisten bekannt für unsere für die Steuersoftware, die VISO Software Reihe. Also VISO VISO Steuer, das sind wir auch Marktführer in Deutschland.\n\nDas ist wahrscheinlich das diese Softwareanwendung von uns, die dem meisten am geläufigsten ist. Da steckt auch noch 'n bisschen mehr dahinter, teilweise unter unter anderen Labels. Also das heißt, wenn ihr irgendwo beim Discounter Steuersoftware kauft, dann kommt die auch von uns. Daneben haben wir dann auch einiges weiter teilweise unter der Viso Reihe, teilweise unter eigenen Markennamen wie Bilbop, Finanzblick, einiges anderes. Und dann sind wir tatsächlich auch noch mal eine Softwaregruppe.\n\nDas heißt, wir haben verschiedene Tochterunternehmen, die im Bereich b-two-b-Software, also Software für größere Unternehmen, mittelständische Unternehmen in aller Regel, die so was wie Warenwirtschaftssysteme, CRM Systeme und so weiter machen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ich wollt das eigentlich nicht ansprechen, aber weil Du eben die Microsoft Lizenzen erwähnt hast, Thorsten Moritz, ne. Nach unserem ersten Gespräch hab ich so 'n bisschen überlegt, na, buhl, mit was über was kann man so mit denen reden im Podcast? Und ich hab mich da an was erinnert, von dem ich nicht mehr genau weiß, ob es wahr ist, sondern ob ich mir das einbilde. Aber hat Bool nicht auch die Microsoft CDs und DVDs tatsächlich hergestellt?\n\nSpeaker 2: Also die Ja, genau.\n\nSpeaker 0: Die Speichermedien und so was alles? Also habt ihr da so wirklich\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau, also ist nicht nur Vertrieb in dem Sinne gewesen, ja, sondern wir haben tatsächlich die Datenträger selbst hergestellt. Wir haben das gesamte Packaging gemacht. Das heißt, wir haben alles selbst zusammengestellt und das dann vertrieben. Microsoft hat eigentlich nur eine Sache gemacht. Microsoft hat uns im Prinzip diese Echtheitszertifikate geliefert und wir haben den ganzen Rest gemacht vom Datenträger übers Handbuch bis zum Packaging und die dann eben vertrieben an die verschiedenen OEMs.\n\nUnd das waren sehr spannende Zeiten. Das war damals diese diese Echtheitzertifikate, die waren Gold wert. Da gab's auch mehrere Einbruchsversuche. Wir haben damals sone Art Ford Nox gestaltet mit Iriserkennung und allem Drum und Dran. Das das war schon wild teilweise.\n\nSpeaker 0: Hab mich da so ganz duster dran erinnert, aber das ist halt leider sehr, also Bool, Microsoft und CD zusammen zu googeln, ist halt einfach komplett unbrauchbar, ja. Also da hab ich so ganz viele andere Treffer, aber ich konnte das nicht mehr nachvollziehen, ob das wirklich so war, aber coole Geschichte auf jeden Fall.\n\nSpeaker 1: Normalerweise, wenn wir in den CTO Special sind, dem dem Termin, mit dem wir starten, das, was wir schon abgehakt haben, ist, wie so dein Bezug zu Technologie war. Normalerweise ist dann ja jetzt erst mal so der persönliche Werdegang, den wir son bisschen durchgehen. Aber dadurch, dass wir hier son Familienunternehmen haben, sind ja 2 Werdegänge, die eigentlich interessant sind. So, das eine ist BUEL als Firma so. Wie kam es denn überhaupt, dass ihr Software entwickelt habt?\n\nUnd dann natürlich in deiner Rolle, wo Du jetzt bist, wie wie sich das Ganze entwickelt hat. Vielleicht, damit man so den Kontext hat, würd ich eigentlich ganz gerne diesmal hier mit so der Firmenhistorie son bisschen anfangen, zu verstehen, wie's denn überhaupt dazu kam, dass ihr dass ihr Software entwickelt und dann vielleicht eher 'n bisschen auf die persönliche Historie blicken, zumindest im Zeitstrahl fangen wir damit 'n bisschen weiter vorne an, so. Und Du hast jetzt schon viel davon davon erzählt, aber vielleicht kannst Du probieren, mir 2 Dinge näherzubringen. So das eine ist, wie ist es, also ich hab jetzt verstanden, ihr habt Microsoft vertrieben und auch die die DVDs mit Echtzeitzertifikanten, so was selbst hergestellt so. War das der Anfang?\n\nAlso wie wurde Bool denn überhaupt gegründet? Und wie war der Wechsel von Vertrieb und auch Herstellung hin zu\n\nSpeaker 2: Du auf ganz ursprünglich Druck schaust, war's sogar gab's sogar noch 'n paar Stufen davor. Mein Vater ist gelernt, hat Drucker und tatsächlich, mein Opa hatte 'n Druckereiunternehmen und das war son bisschen der Background und so ist tatsächlich cool. Auch gestartet ganz ursprünglich als als eine Druckerei. Nur ich muss sagen, das ist schon so lange vor mir her, die Geschichten kenn ich auch nur noch selbst aus aus zweiter, dritter Hand. Ja.\n\nAber was wir dann tatsächlich waren und was das was dann auch die Brücke zu diesem Microsoft Geschäft ist, ist, dass wir eben sehr stark im im Softwarevetrieb waren. Das heißt, wir haben eigentlich Softwarelizenzen oder Softwarelizenziert und die dann rausgebracht. Das war dann früher vor allen Dingen im Handel. Die haben wir dann eben unter durch die Kooperation mit mit Viso haben wir die dann unter der Viso Marke herausgebracht. Und dann haben wir irgendwann angefangen und haben, der BWLer würde sagen Vertical Integration, sprich, wir haben angefangen, die Software selbst herzustellen, haben auch teilweise die Software und teilweise auch die Unternehmen dahinter, das waren in der Regel keine großen Unternehmen, die haben wir dann auch aufgekauft, weil wir gesagt haben, das ist für uns so wichtig.\n\nWir wollen hier nicht nur Vertrieb machen. Wir wollen selbstverantwortlich sein für die Software. Wir wollen die Software nach unseren eigenen Vorstellungen weiterentwickeln. Wir wollen unseren Qualitätsanspruch eigentlich überall gleichermaßen durchsetzen können. Und von da haben wir uns dann eben zum Softwarehaus selbst entwickelt, das, was wir heute sind.\n\nSpeaker 0: Weißt Du, wie das so angefangen hat? Also weiß nicht, hat da das ZDF bei euch geklopft und sagt, hey, wir würden gerne Steuersoftware machen und wollt ihr das nicht mit uns zusammen machen? Oder habt ihr beim ZDF angerufen und sagt, hey, wir hätten hier eine voll coole Idee, aber uns fehlt son bisschen Branding, wie wie, das ist ja eine sehr ungewöhnliche Partnerschaft auf den ersten Blick, son Softwarehaus und öffentlich rechtliche. Wie wie kommen die zusammen?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, das ist, wie das immer so ist, das ist, denk ich nicht, das ist nicht 100 Prozent planbar. Da gibt's auch, das kannst Du wiederum googeln. Die die Geschichte gibt's gibt's auch online, wie das passiert ist, ja. Im Prinzip war's 'n ziemlich fehlgeschlagenes Event, wo dann aber am Ende wir beziehungsweise mein Vater und damals ein Vertreter vom ZDF zusammengekommen sind und ich sag mal, da saßen dann auch die richtigen Personen beim Tisch. Da war auch beim beim ZDF, war eine Offenheit und auch eine gewisse Risikobereitschaft, muss man wahrscheinlich auch sagen, war dabei.\n\nUnd das hat sich, denke ich, für für beide Seiten dann dann sehr stark auch ausgezahlt und auch für die Viso Sendung, denke ich, sehr stark ausgezahlt. Also das sind Themen, die kannst Du, glaub ich, nicht planen, ja. Da müssen die richtigen Leute in der richtigen Situation zusammenkommen und dann kann das auch funktionieren.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja. Wie so oft, manchmal gehört 'n bisschen Zufall dazu. Wie fast immer, ja. Cool. Son bisschen den den Schwenk zu schaffen zu zu dir und wir haben ja schon son bisschen gehört, dass Du dich schon immer eigentlich da dafür interessiert hast, aber war dir das auf soner persönlichen Ebene schon immer klar, dass das mal ist, was Du später auch irgendwie machen willst?\n\nAlso ich kenn ja, es gibt ja auch Menschen, grade in Familienbetrieben, die sagen, so aus aus Prinzip halt nicht, ne. So, nur weil jetzt meine Eltern und meine Großeltern und das ja alles irgendwie gemacht haben, ich will irgendwie mein eigenes Ding machen und maximal weit weg und mit dem Thema gar nichts zu tun haben so. Wie war wie war das für dich?\n\nSpeaker 2: Also das hatte ich auch mal. Da war ich allerdings 13 und das war reiner Protest gewesen. Da darf ich Das war aber auch immer. Sehr starke Waffe, wenn ich das mal meinen Eltern an den Kopf knalle, dass ich das ganz bestimmt nicht machen werde. Na ja, also ich glaub, zum einen hat mein mein Vater diesen Bliff sehr schnell durchschaut.\n\nZum anderen war der da auch sehr entspannt. Das war auch, wenn wir's jetzt mal kurz vor meine von der Seite meiner Eltern betrachten, die haben immer die haben immer schon gesagt, es ist kein Muss, wir sind nicht hier, eine Dynastie zu begründen oder so was, ja. Ihr macht das, woran ihr woran ihr Freude habt und wofür ihr auch eine Begabung habt. So, und ich sag mal von dieser Kursperiode mal abgesehen, war es in Wirklichkeit immer das, was ich gerne wollte. Ich fand ich fand das Ganze mit T schon wahnsinnig spannend damals, als es noch vielleicht Software für auf CD war bis zu bis heute zu Cloud Mobile Anwendungen und jetzt KI als Riesenthema.\n\nIch kann mir ganz ehrlich, ich kann mir keine spannendere Branche vorstellen. Du bist immer so am Puls der Zeit, das macht, Du musst immer up to date bleiben, aber es macht einfach wahnsinnig viel Spaß. Und mal ganz ehrlich, betriebswirtschaftlich, ich find's auch einfach spannender als Metallbau. Oder was grade bei uns hier im Siegerland sehr, sehr üblich ist.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja. Ja, aber das das ist ja ist ja cool. So, wenn das würde ich schon irgendwie immer klar, weil ich glaub, das ist auch was, was manche Leute dann son bisschen beneiden, vielleicht sich dann vielleicht erst son bisschen finden müssen in ihrem Karriereweg.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, ich muss ganz ehrlich sagen, ich bin wahnsinnig dankbar, dass ausgerechnet wir und unser Unternehmen in dieser Branche ist und nicht in irgend 'ner anderen, wo ich sagen würde nach 'n paar Jahren, ah, ich kann's auch nicht mehr sehen, ich kann's auch nicht mehr hören und ich hab auch keine Lust mehr drauf und ich bin jetzt vielleicht aus reinem Pflichtbewusstsein noch im Unternehmen. Also ich bin bin heilfroh, dass es genau die Branche ist, die mich selbst auch fasziniert.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, total. Also ich muss auch sagen, ich war jahrelang auch VISO Nutzer und das war auch das erste Mal, ich benutz hab da direkt so irgendwie sone supercoole Software und das irgendwie ausdeutet. Und ich war einfach beim ersten Mal benutzt, da ist auf jeden Fall irgendwie eine stimmige Software. Und so, und wenn ich jetzt, also da würden mir sehr viel andere Familienunternehmen einfallen, bei der bei denen ich vom inhaltlichen Schwerpunkt weniger gerne arbeiten würde als als Buen. Mein einziger Grund, warum ich nicht mehr bei VISA bin, ist, weil ich mich die Buchhaltung für meine Frau mache und da Lexoffice nutze und die, für die nur eine Smartsteuerintegration haben und ich deswegen von von VISO weg musste.\n\nWenn ich\n\nSpeaker 0: das jetzt dein Feature pitche, weil Du\n\nSpeaker 1: Nein, das ist ja,\n\nSpeaker 0: und Moritz schon mal da hast.\n\nSpeaker 2: Da da sag ich jetzt mein Beileid, das tut mir sehr leid für dich, aber vielleicht schaffen wir ja auch noch für die Lexoffice Kunden irgendwann noch eine noch eine bessere Möglichkeit, ja.\n\nSpeaker 1: Hat jetzt nix damit zu tun, dass wir dass wir mit dir darüber sprechen, aber zumindest diesem Steuerteil trauer ich schon hinterher, dass ich jetzt Smartsteuer dafür nutzen muss. Also ich bin zufrieden mit dem mit Lexoffice als Produkt, aber dass ich mir das wiederum eingekauft hab, gefällt mir nicht daran. Also ja. Also wie gerne, genau, wenn ich nicht machen kann, dann nur für mich gerne diese Integration. Wunderbar.\n\nAber lass uns doch die Reise, weil ich glaub, es gibt, also ich hab mir, ich hab so viele Fragen zu Bool und was grade eure Challenges sind und auch mit eurem Start-up, das ihr noch parallel gegründet habt. Aber lasst doch gerne trotzdem noch die die Historie, damit wir das hier für in unserem Special komplett haben, gerne von dir dann noch mal durchgehen. Weil was was war denn, also so nach Schule bis Einstieg bei Buhl, was waren noch so deine Zwischenstationen? Weil ich hab zumindest gesehen, auch wenn's bei dir, glaub ich, nur 2 Monate waren, haben wir waren wir haben wir zeitgleich für die Deutsche Bank gearbeitet. Echt?\n\nSpeaker 0: Dass wir gleich aufgefallen wollen.\n\nSpeaker 1: Wahnsinn, wir\n\nSpeaker 2: haben zeitgleich für die Deutsche Bank Ja, ich muss zugeben. Ich war ich war allerdings nur Praktikant da.\n\nSpeaker 1: Du warst, ja, ich war zu der Zeit dualer Schüler nicht meine. Ich hab gesehen, 2 11 war's bei dir. Kann das sein?\n\nSpeaker 2: Das müsst ich nachgucken.\n\nSpeaker 1: Also laut laut\n\nSpeaker 2: Xing Aber warte, lass mich überlegen. 2 11 kommt könnte schon gut sein. Kommt hin, 2 Ja, da\n\nSpeaker 1: war mein Beginn fürs duale Studium, weil ich glaub, wir waren also müssten da zeitgleich gewesen sein. Ich war auch\n\nSpeaker 0: Ist das ja der Meinung, der danach sagen muss, meinem Beileid?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ich muss sagen, es war eine sehr spannende Zeit gewesen. Allerdings war ich auch mit Inhouse Consulting in in 'nem sehr spannenden Bereich gewesen. Aber ganz grundsätzlich, ich hab ich hab bei uns ganz normal Abi gemacht, hab dann auch 'n freiwilliges soziales Jahr gemacht. Das heißt, ich hab damals verweigert. Wir mussten ja noch theoretisch.\n\nHab als Deutschlehrer in China gearbeitet an der christlichen Universität und hab dann 'n Bachelor in in Deutschland und 'n Master, beides in 'ner Management BWL Richtung gemacht. Hatte zum einen immer vor, auch währenddessen und danach auch erst mal woanders zu arbeiten, zumindest mal 'n begrenzten Zeitraum, auch einfach mal was anderes zu sehen. Aber schon irgendwo mit dem Ziel, dann irgendwann mal zumindest zur BUELL wieder reinzukommen, wenn ich immer noch das Gefühl hatte, dass es passt. Und wenn die mich auch da haben wollen und beides der Fall war, bin ich dann auch nach nach 1 Station bei bei bei Vodafone Vodafone Italien dann damals, dadurch, dass ich ja in Italien meinen Master gemacht hab. Nach der Station bin ich dann auch wieder zurück ins Unternehmen oder überhaupt mal erst hin ins Unternehmen, wobei ich nie so ganz weg war.\n\nIch war tatsächlich immer son bisschen das da im Familienunternehmen im Sinne von, ich hab damals gab's das noch, bin ich mit 6 Jahren noch aufm Lkw bei uns mitgefahren. Dadurch, dass wir eben noch viel Material, physische Produkte und Warenwirtschaft zu dem Zeitpunkt hatten, hatten wir auch noch Lkws und Fließbänder und solche Sachen, wo eben die ganzen Handbücher und das ganze Packaging und so weiter stattfand. Dann hab ich illegalerweise schon irgendwie im Alter von bis 10 Jahren oder so gab's Heimarbeit damals. Das heißt, Du konntest dir irgendwie so die verschiedenen Packages, Bestandteile nach Hause liefern lassen und die konntest Du dann zusammenstecken. Das hab ich dann gemacht und dann hat mir meine Mutter entsprechend was zugesteckt.\n\nUnd dann hab ich irgendwann genauso illegal mit 13, glaub ich, angefangen, bei uns in im Servicecenter zu arbeiten am Telefon und mit 15 dann in der in der technischen Nordline. Also das heißt, so ganz weg war ich eigentlich nie gewesen. Und bin dann 2014 nach der Vodafone Station bin ich dann in ein Tochterunternehmen bei uns eingestiegen in der Schweiz, wo ich 3 Jahre war. Und dann 2017 bin ich zu uns, zu nach Neukirchen gekommen, da wo wir sitzen an unseren Firmensitz. Und hab dann als Erstes Invoice mit aufgebaut.\n\n'N Invoicing Produkt, wie der Name schon sagt. Und dann ab 2019 war ich in der Geschäftszeitung und ab wann war's? Ende 20 21? Nee, nee, nee, war früher. Jetzt hab ich grad nicht mehr aufm Schirm, aber ist seit einigen Jahren dann auch alleine im Sinne von, dass mein Vater draußen ist, allerdings nicht alleine in der Geschäftsführung und sowieso nicht alleine im Leiterkreis.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ich hab noch eine Frage zu deinem Studium. Ja. Und Du hast ja gesagt, das war für dich eigentlich schon immer klar oder Du wolltest das gerne, dass Du dann zu Buhrl eben auch gehst. Das hätte ja auf 3 verschiedene Studien eigentlich rauslaufen\n\nSpeaker 2: können, ne. Du hättest entweder was so hart mit mit Software machen\n\nSpeaker 0: können, klassische Software Engineering, Du hättest was mit Managern machen können, wie Du gemacht hast, oder Du hättest ja auch was in Richtung Text und Legal machen können, einfach so Domainwissen aufzubauen, ne. Wie sah so dieser Entscheidungsprozess für dich aus? Oder war das überhaupt gar keine Entscheidung? Und das war schon immer für dich klar, dass Du das irgendwie in der Richtung machen willst.\n\nSpeaker 2: Also faktisch war es immer schon für mich klar. Ich überlege gerade, woher kommt es? Also zum einen auf die Gefahr hin, mich unbeliebt zu machen. Ich hab gerne diese BWL im Managementrichtung studiert. Ich hatte Spaß an der, hat mich hat mich immer gefolgt.\n\nZum anderen war es auch so, ich bin da 'n bisschen von zu Hause vorgeprägt. Wie gesagt, mein Vater ist gelernter Drucker, der kann auch keine Zeile programmieren, genauso wenig wie ich, ja. Ich hab, glaube ich, 'n ganz gutes Verständnis, grade für UX Themen, aber Code 0 Zero hatte ich auch nie wirklich Bezug zu. Dann den Text, die Text, Lidl Themen klar, hätte man machen können, aber am Ende hatte ich das Gefühl, dass mich auch im BWL Studium, ich sag mal, für für diese gesamtverantwortliche Rolle doch wahrscheinlich besser vorbereitet als eine fachliche Richtung.\n\nSpeaker 1: Vielleicht, mich würd mal interessieren, wie sieht son denn jetzt grade heute aus? Du hast immer mal son paar Eindrücke aus deiner frühen Jugend irgendwie geteilt so. Ich hab jetzt grad verstanden, irgendwie LKWs. Du hast von Ford Nox erzählt, dass man da mit Iris Scanner irgendwie nicht reinkam und so. Und irgendwie alles war sehr hardwaregetrieben, dann hin den Switch zu Software so.\n\nWie, wenn wir jetzt bei euch im Headquarter sind, so wie viel, ich werd überhaupt gar keinen keinen Empfinden dafür, wie wie viel ist denn überhaupt noch? Verkauft ihr irgendeine Form von physischen Datenträgern aktuell grade noch? Ist alles digital so? Wie viel von Also was ist ein Bool heute im Vergleich zu dem Ford Knox Iris Scanner von vor 25, 20 Jahren?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja. Tatsächlich, das das eine hat fast nichts mehr mit dem anderen zu tun, deswegen. Ich hab eben schon gedacht, als ich's erzählt hab, oh, hoffentlich kommen hier keine falschen Bilder rüber. Wenn Du dir heute eigentlich eine eine gute Gesamtheit nicht anguckst, dann hast Du 3 große Bereiche. Der eine Bereich ist natürlich Softwareentwicklung und da ist voller Fokus Web, App und mittlerweile auch AI.\n\nDa auch mal 'n Eindruck zu geben, wir haben jetzt zu Hochphasen, wir haben ja jetzt grade vor 'n paar Tagen haben wir ja Steuerdeadline für dieses Jahr gehabt. Es sind genau 7 Prozent, die noch eine zu installierende On Brand Version als Neukunde kaufen. Der Rest ist Web und App. So dementsprechend ist das unser normales Daily Business geworden und das, an dem wir arbeiten und das, wie wir auch denken. Softwareentwicklung ist insofern der eine große Teil.\n\nDer ist aber nur teilweise hier in Neukirchen, gerade für die Steuersoftware. Haben wir Entwicklungsstandort in Mannheim und Hannover. Andere wie zum Beispiel eben 'n oder 'n Finanzblick, die werden hier entwickelt in Neukirchen. Der zweite große Bereich ist das Thema IT und vor allen Dingen dort Rechenzentren. Wir betreiben ja unsere eigenen Rechenzentren.\n\nDas ist natürlich kein ganz kleines Unterfangen. Das Wilde ist, wir haben's jetzt genau zur Deadline auch noch mal gehabt, wir müssen eigentlich die Rechenzentren auf diesen einen verrückten Tag dieses Jahr, einunddreißigster Achter 20 25 müssen wir auslegen, wo wir irgendwie das Zwanzigfache an Last haben als an 'nem normalen Tag. Dafür muss die ganze Infrastruktur stehen und funktionieren. Und das ist natürlich 'n ultrawichtiger Bereich für uns, weil's einfach auch 'n essenzieller Teil unseres unseres Werbeversprechens ist. So und der dritte Teil ist Marketing und Vertrieb, vor allen Dingen damit dann Onlinemarketing, wo natürlich auch\n\nSpeaker 1: 'n\n\nSpeaker 2: großer Teil des Budgets auch hingeht.\n\nSpeaker 1: Diese On Preme Lösung ist aber, also wie, das ist ja wahrscheinlich trotzdem nicht verschickt, physische Datenpräg oder so was, das wahrscheinlich 'n, also\n\nSpeaker 2: Gibt es noch? Ist aber ist aber tatsächlich die Ausnahme. Also es gab 2 Punkte. Das eine ist der Handel, wo wir auch immer noch 'n bisschen was machen. Die haben logischerweise noch physische Themen, aber auch 'n Amazon stellt jetzt komplett auf digitale- und Download Versionen was auch da schon sowieso das meiste ist.\n\nWeb und App ist dann natürlich 'n bisschen schwieriger. Und dann ist es so, wir haben eben auch noch einen Haufen Bestandskunden da draußen. Und manchmal tut's mir 'n bisschen selber weh, aber dann sehe ich, dann bin ich bei Leuten am Laptop zu Hause und dann sehe ich irgendwie, Viso Steuer ist noch die letzte installierte Software, die die haben und ich frag sie, warum. Ja, ich hab's seit 15 Jahren so. Ja, gut.\n\nDas heißt, es gibt auch noch eine Diskrepanz zwischen Neukunden. Welche welche Kanäle und welche Devices wählt wählt ein Neukunde versus die Bestandskunden, die vielleicht ja eben aus alter Routine dann auch immer noch installieren, auch wenn sie keinen physischen Datenträger mehr nehmen. Und die Maschinen zum Erstellen der Datenträger und das ganze, die gibt's in der Tat nicht mehr. Also das Bisschen, was wir noch machen, machen wir in der Regel nicht mehr selbst.\n\nSpeaker 0: Kannst Du uns das son bisschen noch von der Größe her einordnen, diese 3 Säulen? Wie viele Mitarbeiter habt ihr so insgesamt und wie verteilen die sich?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, ich hab eben noch Ganz ganz cool. Mitarbeiterzahl angeht, grob noch einen großen Bereich wiederschlagen und das ist der Bereich Service und Support, der kommt noch mit dazu. Insofern, das ist eine große Säule. Die Softwareentwicklung ist eine große Säule, was personaltechnisch angeht und dann die Bereiche Rechenzentren und Marketing, die sind kleiner, was eine Anzahl an Personen angeht. Budgetverteilung sieht allerdings 'n bisschen anders aus Als Reinemull Data Service ohne die Tochterunternehmen kommen wir, statt mich tot, vielleicht so auf.\n\nLass mich nicht lügen, 500 Leute so was den Dreh müssen es sein. So, und das sind aber Das\n\nSpeaker 0: ist ja schon wieder eine Größenordnung.\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau. Und als ganze Gruppe sind wir, glaub ich, knapp unter 1000.\n\nSpeaker 1: Und als, weil Du grade Beispiel, einunddreißigster Achter und zwanzigfache Last so, son bisschen, ein 1 der ersten Takea Themen son bisschen zu schneiden. Wie wie ist denn? Heißt das, ihr haltet die ganze Zeit Server für diesen Tag vor oder wie wie Rechenzentren bisher noch wenig, also noch kein eigenes aufgebaut, bisher noch bei keiner Firma gearbeitet, die ihre eigenen Rechenzentren betreiben musste oder es nicht hat von jemand anderem betreiben lassen? Wie also wie stellt ihr sicher, dass ihr zwanzigfache Kapazität habt in an diesem einunddreißigsten Achten?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, also die Infrastruktur ist prinzipiell alles da, ist alles vorhanden. Also wir mieten jetzt auch nichts irgendwie für 'n Tag noch mal dazu. Wir haben, wenn Du so willst, noch mal 'n paar Back up Lösungen, wenn alles in die Winzen gehen würde. Aber ja, wir halten tatsächlich alles vor und das sind natürlich ist 'n Saisonverlauf und 'n Saisonhöhepunkt, den wir natürlich auch lang voraus planen. Und da muss man auch tatsächlich immer son bisschen gucken.\n\nEs spielt eine Rolle, an was fürn Tag ist der einunddreißigste Achte? Die letzten Jahre war's anders, da war's dann irgendwie der zweite des Folgemonats oder so. Ist das 'n Wochentag? Ist der am Wochenende so? Sonntag oder Samstag, wenn es Samstagnacht wäre, dann dann wär's wahrscheinlich noch mal schärfer, als wenn es unter der Woche ist.\n\nJa. Und wir sehen dann wirklich, wie die Zahlen immer höher und höher und höher gehen. Zum Abend hin wird es mehr und mehr und mehr. Und dann hast Du so den Peak so 20 Uhr. Und dann hast Du noch mal son Peak 23 Uhr 59 tatsächlich.\n\nAber ja, prinzipiell halten wir alles dafür vor und bereit.\n\nSpeaker 0: Du hast ja gesagt, ihr betreibt euer eigenes Rechenzentrum, weil das auch so Teil von eurer Außenkommunikation ist. Ist das die Hauptmotivation? Ich hab auch schon in Projekten Firmen gearbeitet, die ihre eigenen Rechenzentren betreiben mussten, weil sie so Sicherheitsanforderungen an, also tatsächlich physische Sicherheitsanforderungen, ne, an das Rechenzentrum. Das muss besonders zugangsgeschützt und so was alles sein, weil da halt sehr sensible Daten rumliegen und so. Ist ist das eure Motivation oder ist das eher dieses, hey, wenn ihr mit BUEL arbeitet, liegen eure Daten in Deutschland sicher bei uns, kommunikativer Aspekt?\n\nSpeaker 2: Es ist der, es ist eine Kombination aus beidem. Weil die Daten so sensibel sind, ja, es, ich mein, es sind die, es sind Steuerdaten, es sind Buchhaltungsdaten. Ich glaube, als Privatperson oder als Selbstständiger in Deutschland kannst Du nichts Sensibleres haben. Weil die Daten so sensibel sind, fühlen wir, dass wir dieses Werteversprechen abgeben müssen, ja. Dass es so sein muss, dass es Teil dessen ist.\n\nGleichzeitig Aber es ist rechtlich treueben. Na ja, wir sind auch BaFin lizenziert, damit kommt dann auch noch mal So was. Was. Das heißt, wenn auch Bankkonten abrufen und und Transaktionen auslösen im Onlinebanking. Das macht es uns natürlich auch noch mal deutlich leichter.\n\nAber das ist auch natürlich im Moment 'n Punkt an uns jetzt gerade, wenn wir wenn wir am Anfang 1 KI Zeitalters stehen, müssen wir gucken, okay, an welchen Stellen ist das absolut noch sinnvoll? Gibt es aber auch vielleicht Stellen, wo wir sagen, okay, wir beschneiden nicht bei uns, aber wir beschneiden den Kundennutzen extrem, wenn wir sagen, wir bleiben die ganze Zeit on bram, ja. Ich mein auch unsere KI Infrastruktur und wir sind auch grade mitten im Aufbau, die können wir prinzipiell schon lokal betreiben. Aber es gibt natürlich immer wieder Szenarien, Anwendungen, wo's absolut Sinn macht, wenn Du nach wenn Du nach außen gehst. Das ist einmal natürlich die Frage, wo machst Du das?\n\nUnd dann ist natürlich auch die Frage, wie machst Du das, ohne dass dass trotzdem eine sensible Daten sind, die die nach außen gehen, ja? Und ich sag mal, das ist eine ongoing Diskussion. Ich\n\nSpeaker 1: spring vielleicht wieder son bisschen zurück, aber weil die also im Zeitstrahler, weil mich die Frage son bisschen interessiert aus der heutigen Zeit, so wie wie ihr eigentlich die Software entwickelt? Wie seid ihr aufgestellt? So, in welcher Art entwickelt ihr so? Und in dem Zuge kommt mir noch eine Frage son bisschen vorher. Und zwar, ich mein, wir, ihr und ich arbeiten beide in ein Unternehmen, das Software entwickelt und wissen selbst, welche Challenges daherkommen, wenn man Software entwickelt und die Art und Weise, wie man das tut und welche Technologien man entscheiden und so was.\n\nDa kann man auch viele Fehler machen und auch durchaus so was den Erfolg des Unternehmens irgendwie beeinflussen. Und ich stell mir's grundsätzlich schwierig vor, jetzt so wenn ich mir in der Stelle mal 'n bisschen zurückspule, dein dein Papa kommt irgendwie, ist gelernter Drucker und entscheidet dann irgendwann, okay, die die Software wollen wir jetzt irgendwie selbst weiterentwickeln und so. Und hab, die Seite ja jetzt echt 40 Jahre später an 'nem Date, wo man wirklich sagen kann, wie gesagt, es war auch vorhin wirklich ernst gemeint, sowieso als Software eine, die wirklich super gut funktioniert, ihr es hinbekommen hat, gut das Ganze zu skalieren, superviele Produkte parallel macht und so. Und ich frag mich, weiß nicht, ob Du da Geschichten aus der Historie son bisschen kennst, so, welche Entscheidung glaubst Du, hat dein Papa da in der Vergangenheit vielleicht auch irgendwie gut getroffen? Hat er die richtigen Leute eingestellt, die im Endeffekt so was mit ihm zusammen den Softwareteil aufbauen, weil so komplett softwarefremd, ein Softwareunternehmen zu führen.\n\nIch kann mir vorstellen, dass man, dass auch viele andere da durchaus Entscheidungen hätten treffen können, die heute ein vielleicht kein Unternehmen hervorgerufen werden, dass es seit 40 Jahren gibt und so erfolgreich ist. Es ist sehr weit gefasst diese Frage. Vielleicht irgend so was, wie hast Du's Gefühl, ist es so, gab's da irgendwie auch bestimmte Entscheidungen, wo dann die dann Papa drauf zurück sind, hat er von vornherein irgendwie die richtigen Leute eingestellt, hat er schon seit Ewigkeiten irgendwie einen CT, wenn wir's jetzt mal Titel wieder nehmen, einen CTO beiseite, der irgendwie ihm da viel von abgenommen hat, sodass er das das gar nicht sein Hauptaugenmerk sein musste, sondern produktfokussierter sein musste. So wie, vielleicht ein bisschen aus der Historie und dann gerne erzählt mit, wie arbeitet ihr denn heute, wie entwickelt ihr heute Software?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, also erst mal, wir haben auch eine Menge grober Fehler gemacht. Das ist definitiv so und unter einigen dieser Fehler und leiden wir auch bis heute noch, auch eben technologische Fehlentscheidungen gehören auch mit dazu. Ich glaube, das ist eine ist aber 'n Stück weit normal. Aber es ist vor allen Dingen das, was Du gesagt hast. Mein Vater hat damals mit den richtigen Leuten zusammengearbeitet, die die richtigen Leute eingestellt und das ist etwas, was uns als Unternehmen bis heute noch auszeichnet.\n\nIch finde, wir haben gerade 'n besonders starkes Leadershipteam, worüber ich auch sehr dankbar bin. Ich mein, ich hab eben die wohl beschrieben, wir haben eine gewisse Komplexität auch dabei. Wenn es irgendwo son einsamen Geschäftsführer oben gäbe und wenn ich das dann noch wäre, ich glaube, das wär sehr, sehr schwer. Insofern bin ich sehr dankbar dafür, dass wir immer schon diese diese Kultur hatten 1 starken Leadershipteams, immer schon sehr, sehr gute Leute hatten Und die sind es letzten Ende die die diese schwierigen Entscheidungen dann auch treffen konnten, ohne dass mein Vater oder ich als Nichttechniker dort immer alles 100 Prozent beurteilen konnten. Und trotzdem ist es natürlich so, wir haben auch den Anspruch heute als als Leadershipteam, dass wir wie unser, wie man Co Geschäftsführer hat, wie der Globik so schön sagt, wir sind keine Frühstücksdirektoren.\n\nJeder von uns hat seine Bereiche, in denen er immer mit dabei ist, wo er im Fieg mal rumspringt, wo er mittextet, wo er aber auch bei Technologieentscheidungen mit dabei ist, auch wenn er auch wenn man selber vielleicht kein Techniker ist. Aber grade die großen Technologieentscheidungen sind ja eigentlich eher fast nur strategischer Natur. Was ist uns wichtig und was wollen wir letzten Endes? Und da kann man sehr wohl, glaub ich, als Nichttechniker zumindest 'n Input leisten und muss es wahrscheinlich auch. Ich hoffe, das beantwortet deine Frage 'n bisschen.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja. Ja, definitiv. Aber vielleicht kannst Du mich dann ja gern noch mal, jetzt hast Du schon mal, jetzt sind wir schon fast, also sozusagen das erste Tool gejobbt, ihr ihr nutzt Figma zur Entwicklung, aber vielleicht kannst Du mich gerne auch von auf 'ner hohen Flughöhe erst mal abholen, so, wie wie genau entwickelt ihr denn Software? Also wie wie wie ist Entscheidungsfindung so? Wie sind eure Teams aufgestellt so?\n\nWie also gerne so die Struktur, sowohl was Prozesse als auch was irgendwie Teamstrukturen angeht. Probier mich da gerne mal durch\n\nSpeaker 0: zum Job. Bevor Du das antwortest, würde die Frage gerne erweitern. Oh. Ist ja nicht so, dass ich\n\nSpeaker 1: sie schon sehr breit gestellt hab.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, also weil weil Du auch so auf diesen Prozessen und und wie passiert das? Ich stell mir das grade in in eurem Space, also egal ob wir jetzt über über Bool und VISO oder über Invoice und Billbop und so was reden, das ist ja immer auch 'n bisschen von außen getrieben, ne. Also was gibt es für rechtliche Vorgaben? Wie ändern die sich? So, das gibt ja schon viel vor, was einfach gemacht werden muss, ob Du willst oder nicht, ne.\n\nDa muss halt irgendwie eine Rechnung angepasst werden, da muss müssen neue Felder hinzugefügt werden et cetera, et cetera. Und gleichzeitig habt ihr ja einen einen einen Veröffentlichungszyklus Schrägstrich Rhythmus, der ja auch son bisschen fremdbestimmt ist, weil wird halt jedes Jahr, ne, gibt's 'n Jahresabschluss, wird eine Steuererklärung gemacht, so. Das das liegt ja auch nicht in eurer Hand, wann ihr dann veröffentlichen wollt oder nicht. Und das sind ja so so 2 Seiten, von denen so der Handlungsspielraum für Sachen, die jetzt rein von euch kommen, neue Features, neue Produktideen, die das ja schon son bisschen einschränken, einfach, was überhaupt vielleicht links und rechts möglich ist. Und das stell ich mir halt als son sehr spannenden Drahtseilakt vor.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, also eigentlich hast Du schon angefangen, die Frage 'n bisschen zu beantworten, kann man sagen, jeden Tag.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ich weiß nicht, was die Antwort ist. Ich weiß ja noch nicht. Jetzt noch nicht. Du hast mal gemught, was Teil der\n\nSpeaker 1: Antwort sein könnte so. Es gibt doch Anforderungen von außen.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, also alles alles, was Jan sagt, sowieso, nein. Es ist aber tatsächlich so, wie er sagt. Wir haben zum einen haben wir einen einen Rhythmus, der ein Stück weit von außen diktiert ist. Das ist zumindest in der Steuerwelt so. In der Buchhaltungswelt ist das ist das nicht so umfangreich und nicht nicht in diesem starken Maß.\n\nDas heißt, ich sag mal, Du hast, wenn wir jetzt beim Steuerbereich bleiben, hast Du einen einen starken Jahresrhythmus, ja. Du weißt, dann und dann bringen wir in die nächste die nächste Version raus. Das heißt, dann und dann muss die fertig sein. Das ist der Zeitraum, in dem wir was machen können. Zum zur Deadline lassen wir die Finger von allem, ja.\n\nDa werden wir auch keine keine Updates mehr fahren. Was alles, was nicht absolut notwendig ist. Da werden wir 0 Risiko gehen, ja. Das ist das ist so der von außen auferlegte Rhythmus. Und den musst Du natürlich fahren und der hilft dir als Unternehmen.\n\nSo. Und dann musst Du aber gleichzeitig und das ist dann in der Tat die Challenge, musst Du sagen, okay, außerhalb dieses dieses Rhythmus arbeite ich jetzt eigentlich an den an den Innovationsthemen, ja. Jetzt muss ich ich muss 'n Stück weit nicht 2 Geschwindigkeiten fahren, aber 2 verschiedene Arten von Softwareentwicklungen fahren. Einmal die von außen auferlegte, wo ich neue steuerliche Rahmenbedingungen mit abbilde, neue buchhalterische Themen mit integriere, ja, die von außen auferlegten. Und dann hast Du aber die intern Getriebenen, ja, wo Du sagst, ich brauche neue Features, ich brauche neue Technologien.\n\nIch möchte das, was bisher manuell war, möcht ich jetzt irgendwie durch durch KI vorantreiben und so und so weiter und so fort. Und Du musst achtgeben, dass der Rhythmus des einen, dieser Jahresrhythmus, nicht den Rhythmus des anderen diktiert. Denn dann wird's gefährlich, denn dann wirst Du ganz schnell langsam. Und das Problem ist natürlich auch, der eine Rhythmus ist ein Muss, der von außen auch verlegte. Der andere Rhythmus ist ein Kann, ja.\n\nUnd das heißt natürlich, es kann ja sehr schnell passieren, dass der dass der Muss Rhythmus immer den den Kanu Rhythmus übersteuert. Und das das ist eine Gefahr. Deswegen Du musst zusehen, dass Du immer Teile des Teams hast, die innovationsgetrieben arbeiten, die einfach auch zusehen, dass ihre Sachen rauskommen, ja. Und Du musst auch sehr stark unterscheiden, was sind Bereiche, wo ich Fehler machen darf und was sind Bereiche, wo ich's nicht machen darf? Bei der steuerlichen Logik, da sind 0 Fehlertoleranz, ja.\n\nDas darf ich einfach nicht versauen, fertig erst. Bei den Innovationsthemen, wenn ich sage, okay, das hier eben, jetzt mach ich mit KI oder sonst irgendwas, aber KI ist einfach 'n schönes Beispiel. Da darf ich sagen, okay, da muss ich auch sagen, hier bin ich auch mal unperfekt, ja. Hier hier bring ich auch mal Sachen raus und vielleicht geht's auch schief, ja. Aber ich muss hier eine hohe Geschwindigkeit fahren und ich muss einfach eine andere Risikobereitschaft haben.\n\nSpeaker 1: Und das heißt, gibt es unternehmerisch schon auch diese Muss und Kann Teams? Also trennt ihr Teams nach diesen nach diesem Art des Arbeitens oder machen, also wie wie macht ihr die Trennung danach? Und wie wie ihr auch, ich mein, es ist ja am Ende halt trotzdem Software, am Ende die gleiche irgendwie Infrastruktur. Wie schaut ihr denn, dass die einen, die Fehler machen dürfen, nicht Fehler reinbringen in ein System, wo andere da eigentlich darauf achten müssen, dass keine reinkommen soll? Also wie ist wie wie funktioniert denn diese Trennung?\n\nIst das ist das Gleichnis, dass natürlich Teams?\n\nSpeaker 2: Es ist nicht ganz leicht, es auch zu sagen. Also es gibt kein, Du bist nicht Mitglied im Team M oder im Team K, das jetzt nicht. Aber ich sag mal, es es kommt darauf an, eben in welchem Projekt Du arbeitest, welche Verantwortung Du gerade hast für welches Thema. Und das muss natürlich auch 'n Stück weit zu den Leuten passen, ja. Und dann muss auch in der in der Anforderung definiert werden, worum geht es hier, ja?\n\nUnd was was ist die Erwartungshaltung? Daran hängt es, aber es ist es ist auch 'n Kampf die richtige Struktur an der Stelle, ganz klar. Und da ist auch die Diskussion ist noch nicht ausgefochten, absolut nicht.\n\nSpeaker 0: Du hast auch gerade gesagt, man man das muss man auch die richtige Person für sein, ne, so zu arbeiten. Softwareentwickler müssen ja immer auch so die Domäne verstehen, in der sie unterwegs sind, ja. Also wenn wir hier Spiele bauen, müssen wir verstehen, wie Spiele funktionieren, was so Mechaniken dahinter sind. Wenn jemand im E-Commerce unterwegs ist, muss er von Marketing und Produktahnung haben, ja. Und wenn jemand bei euch Software baut, dann stell ich mir das so mit als die komplexeste Domäne vor, die man so nebenbei irgendwie noch beherrschen muss.\n\nWie wie wie stellt ihr das denn denn sicher? Weil also, ich stell mir vor, die allerwenigsten Menschen, die zu euch kommen, sind schon absolute Steuerprofis vorher, sondern die müssen es ja irgendwie bei euch, mit euch während der Arbeit irgendwie lernen. Habt habt ihr da son son Framework für euch gefunden, allen Teams, egal ob das jetzt, ne, Software wird da sicherlich ein ist, aber auch Leuten im im Support und so weiter, denen halt noch Fachwissen mitzugeben?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, also wir haben sehr unterschiedliche Biografien. Der Standardisierungsgrad ist auch sehr unterschiedlich, eben im im Support und und im Service. Da da sind natürlich die Trainingswege wesentlich standardisierter, ne. Als das jetzt, sagen wir mal, im Produktmanagement der Fall ist. Da da haben wir zum einen haben wir immer Fachleute im Team.\n\nDas heißt, wir haben Buchhaltungsexperten, wir haben Steuerexperten, die sind normaler Bestandteil des Teams, aber in der Regel nicht da, wo Du grade neuem aufbauen willst und wo Du sagst, jetzt eigentlich jetzt bräuchten wir eigentlich einen hier mitten mitten im Team. Da hast Du natürlich immer keinen, wie das so ist. Den kannst Du ja auch nicht in der Regel so schnell schnitzen. Ist wahrscheinlich auch gut so. Und dann sind die Wege auch oft 'n bisschen ungerarder.\n\nViel ist tatsächlich Erfahrung. Du kommst rein, Du bist vielleicht, Du trägst nicht die Verantwortung für Fachlichkeit, aber Du lernst dazu, Du hast die richtigen Leute an der Hand. Du weißt, wen Du fragen kannst und dann wird auch irgendwann 'n strukturierter Prozess draus. Aber wenn ich mir das jetzt grade mal anschaue, wenn wir Buchhaltungslogik in den Bilbov integrieren, ja, ich seh das an unserer Produktmanagerin. Die hat verschiedene Vorstation bei uns im Unternehmen gehabt.\n\nDie ist mit dem Thema schon in den Berührungen gekommen, ja. Die hatte schon eine Grundahnung und da hat sie sich dann weiterentwickelt. Und dann haben wir aber auch im Unternehmen wiederum die richtigen Ressourcen, die sie dann wieder ansprechen kann und die dann auch entsprechend unterstützen können. Also ich sag mal so, wir haben ein gewisses Grundwissen im Unternehmen, das ist auch wichtig so. Und das können dann Leute auch reinwachsen und können dann auch selbst Teil dieser Fachlichkeit werden.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und hab ich das eben richtig in der Halbzeit verstanden? Ihr macht crossfunktionale Teams dann entsprechend da? Wenn Du sagst, da sind zum Beispiel auch Fachleute schon mit dabei, das heißt, es gibt immer Teams mit unterschiedlicher Zusammensetzung dafür.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja. Ist nicht ist nicht von Produkt zu Produkt gleich, aber in der Regel ja.\n\nSpeaker 0: Cool.\n\nSpeaker 2: Du hast fachlichen Vielleicht. Produktmanagement Input. Du hast Du hast die Entwickler selbst, Marketing.\n\nSpeaker 0: Mhm. Cool. Ja.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ich muss noch mal 'n bisschen nachfragen hin zu eurem Entwicklungsprozess. Und ich, was ich noch nicht so komplett verstanden hab, ist, wie denn genau bei euch neue Features in Software irgendwie priorisiert werden und wie nehmen Teams diese Features und priorisieren Kann versus Muss Features gegeneinander so. Also ich probier mich gern mal davon abzuholen, so in welchem Zeit, also wann wann plant die werden? Son Musthema am Anfang des Jahres und dann ist klar, das muss dieses Jahr geschehen so und wie passieren dann diese Kann Themen parallel? So wie ist dieser wie ist wie ist der Prozess von Idee, das müssten wir machen, gerne das ist dann jetzt eher im Kann Bereich, zu, jetzt ist es umgesetzt so.\n\nWie wem ich da mal irgendwie reinzusondern und wie wie die Teams selbst jonglieren zwischen, das hätte der Moritz jetzt gerne dieses Jahr, dass wir dann 'n Innovationsfeature haben und da sagt der Staat, das muss aber.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, wie gesagt, für das für das, was der Staat sagt, da hast Du eigentlich einen einen festen Rhythmus, ja. Der wird einfach gelebt, der ist in der in der Organisation drin. Das andere sind, ich ich hätt fast gesagt, normale Priorisierungsprozesse. 1 unserer Hauptanliegen, wo wir aber auch immer wieder kläglich versagen, ist, dass wir sagen, wir brauchen Fokus bei diesen Kanthemen, ne. Und wir müssen aktiv aktiv Ressourcen dafür finden, Ressourcen dafür freimachen.\n\nJa, ich ja. Ich wünschte manchmal, es wäre nicht so, aber wahrscheinlich hat jeder immer das Gefühl, man hat zu wenig Leute. Aber umgekehrt, es hilft uns eben in diesem Priorisierungsprozess, dass man eben nicht unendlich Ressourcen hat, deswegen ist das eine gute Sache. Ich ich kann dir keinen festen Prozess als Antwort geben, aber wir müssen für uns immer wieder neu definieren und das ist nicht einmal im Jahr, das ist eher Jeden Monat hätt ich bald gesagt, immer wieder, was ist uns wirklich wichtig? Weil wir auch während des Jahres lernen wir natürlich immer wieder, wir lernen über diese Kant Features auch und es verändert sich auch ständig immer wieder.\n\nUnd insofern, das ist 'n recht agiler Prozess. Aber tatsächlich musst Du regelmäßig die Richtung festklopfen und sagen, okay, das haben wir vielleicht letzten Monat gedacht, das müssen wir machen oder sollten wir machen, ja. Es ist für uns als Unternehmen relevant, es ist für den Kunden relevant, dass es immer noch war, aber das Cop hat sich jetzt vielleicht noch mal verändert. Aber ich\n\nSpeaker 1: muss, ich muss trotzdem noch mal nach nachklopfen. Wer wer genau ist das Wir? Also wer wer macht, also ich hab jetzt eine Produktmanagerin, die für ein Team verantwortlich ist so. Wo bist Du da drin und wo ist das Produktmanagement drin und wer wer ist das, wie er die darüber entscheidet hat?\n\nSpeaker 0: Ist sone Frage nach der Autonomie in den Teams oder worauf worum geht's dir? Ja, eigentlich nee, erst mal\n\nSpeaker 1: nur zu verstehen, wie genau so Features, also wie wie kommt bei bei Boul sein, weil ist das halt schon, für mich ist das aus meiner Brille son, also mit diesen sehr restriktiven Anforderungen irgendwie eine andere Art der der Softwareentwicklung so. Und ich würde gerne wissen so, wie wie in welchen Kreisen wird über solche Features diskutiert? Wie wie kommen sie am Ende rein? Und so so der der Lebenstyp ist son bisschen einfach besser besser zu verstehen.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja. Viele, nicht nur Vorschläge, auch Entscheidungen kommen natürlich von den Produktmanagern selbst. Aber, und das war auch das, was ich eben meinte, jeder aus unserem Leadershipteam, die jetzt irgendwo Umsatz- und Produktverantwortung haben, ja, sprich in der in der BULTEC Service mit 'nem Peter Schmitz als Geschäftsführer dort im Buchhaltungsbereich oder bei mir mit Bilob. Jeder von uns hat ausm Leadership Team hat seine seine Produkte und seine Bereiche oder sein Produkt, wo er eben sehr hands on mit dabei ist und wo er eben aktiv Teil dieses Priorisierungsprozesses ist. Also es ist nicht so, dass wir am Ende des Jahres da mal runtergehen und mal sagen, gucken wir uns doch mal an, wie die Software jetzt aussieht.\n\nUnd was jetzt auch sehr geworden ist im Laufe des Jahres gar nicht eben. Das meine ich, da sind wir wirklich eng mit dabei. Jeder, der irgendwo Produktverantwortung trägt und das ist auch gleichzeitig bei uns in der Regel mit Umsatzverantwortung, die beiden gehen Hand in Hand. Nicht jeder ist in allem drin, aber jeder ist irgendwo tief drin.\n\nSpeaker 1: Das heißt, das ist auch das, was Du am Anfang meint, das mit, ihr seid nicht die, wie war der Begriff, die\n\nSpeaker 2: Frühstückdirektororen, ja.\n\nSpeaker 1: Die Frühstücksdirektororen, sondern so so. Ihr im Leadershipteam seid ihr dann nach Produkten irgendwie aufgeteilt und derjenige, der verantwortlich für das Produkt ist, ist so einfach sehr nah und am Ende irgendwie im im Entwicklungsprozess mit drin. Das heißt, es ist irgendwie eine 'n Zusammenspiel aus Leadershipteam plus Produktmanager. Dadurch, dass die so eng zusammen sind, ist es nicht ein einmal im Monat Report gemacht, ab und zu kommen wir von oben Ideen rein dann wieder, sondern ist einfach eine sehr enge Zusammenarbeiten. Es gibt, das das war auch der Teil, den man auch bis jetzt nicht so ganz bewusst hat.\n\nWie wie sind denn die Hierarchien zwischen Produktmanagement bis hin zu einem ausm Leadershipteam, der Produktverantwortung hat?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja. Und dazu kommt kommt dann noch mal die technische Seite, auch eben vertreten durch durch unseren CTO. Insofern eine gewisse Komplexität ist da. Es gibt auch gewisse Überschneidungen, aber am Ende und das ist 'n wichtiger Punkt für uns, bei aller Technik, die wichtig ist, wir schauen am Ende ganz klar auf das, was sieht der Kunde, was was erlebt der Kunde? Wir sind sehr, sehr stark User Experience getrieben und insofern, da sind wir natürlich mit bei den Produktmanagern und auch bei den Designern mit am engsten dran.\n\nEs ist auch das, wo wir natürlich auch, wo jemand wie ich mit meinem Hintergrund, den ich eben beschrieben hab, am ehesten mitreden kann.\n\nSpeaker 0: Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 2: Das heißt, es ist, mal beim Beispiel Bilob zu bleiben, wo ich eben hands on mit dabei bin. Es ist absolut normal, dass ich mit Entwicklern und Produktmanagerin, dass wir auch physisch einfach zusammensitzen, über die Schulter gucken, Designs angucken, Entscheidungen gemeinsam treffen, also wirklich zusammen im Gespräch und Hands on.\n\nSpeaker 0: Bevor wir gleich auf das Thema kommen, weil ich glaub, dann ergibt sich auch noch die ein oder andere Antwort für das, was Fabi grade gefragt hat, hätt ich noch eine oder vielleicht 2 Fragen zu dem Thema AI, weil Du's grade auch schon wieder erwähnt hattest als 1 von diesen neuen Themen, die man sich jetzt halt auch mal anschauen muss und das irgendwie da mit mit reinbringen muss. Ich muss ehrlich sagen, dass so meine Steuererklärung nicht das erste Thema ist, das mir einfällt, wenn ich an an AI denke Und AI ja grade so in seinen Kinderschuhen noch eher dafür bekannt war, herumzufantasieren, als irgendwie fachlich korrekte Antworten zu liefern. Wie nähert ihr euch denn dem Thema, wenn grade bei euch so Korrektheit ja eigentlich das oberste dogmatische Gebot sein muss?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, absolut. In zweierlei Hinsicht. Also zum einen haben wir tatsächlich den Anspruch, dass wir in der Lage sind, mithilfe von ai fachlich korrekte Inhalte an den Kunden ranzubringen, ohne zu fantasieren, ja. Da sind wir dann auch wieder da sind wir wieder bei unserer technischen ai Infrastruktur, die wir aufgebaut haben und weiter am Ausbauen sind, wo wir natürlich die komplette Kontrolle über die Inhalte haben. Ja, und da liegt es dann an uns, ob fantasie wird oder nicht.\n\nZum anderen ist es aber natürlich auch einfach, ich sag mal, ein ein UX Hilfsmittel. Wie cool ist es, wenn Du deine Software einfach fragen kannst, hey, ich hab hier jetzt diese Ausgabe. Soll ich die jetzt überhaupt scannen? Lohnt sich das? Oder wenn umgekehrt die Software dich zurückfragt, hey, dies kann dies oder jenes bedeuten, ja?\n\nWas ist denn jetzt tatsächlich hiermit gemeint? Was für eine Art von Ausgabe war das? Oder wenn die Software sagt, hey, Du bist jetzt irgendwie noch noch mal 10 Jahre älter und Du hast 'n Job, mit dem bist Du höchstwahrscheinlich Bildschirmarbeiter. Kann es vielleicht sein, dass Du eine Gleitsichtbrille hast, die Du noch nicht angegeben hast?\n\nSpeaker 0: Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 2: Also insofern, ich glaube, Steuererklärung ist eigentlich prädestiniert für dieses Thema, denn Du hast ja ganz oft, wenn Du heute, ich sag mal irgendwie son Interview oder dialogbasierte Herangehensweise hast, hast, wo die Software dich was fragt und Du entweder ja nein sagst oder irgendwas eintipperst. Was Du denkst, ist in der Regel nicht ja nein, sondern ganz oft überlegst Du ja, hm, ist das jetzt so? Was ist denn was ist denn jetzt mit die mit diesem oder jedem Sachverhalt? Ist es ist es ein ja nein, was geborene ich dir richtigerweise an? Und wenn Du diese Rückfrage einfach stellen kannst in Zukunft, das ist natürlich wahnsinnig wertvoll.\n\nSpeaker 1: Wie ist denn, vielleicht zur Nachfrage. Zu erstens, wie ist denn der aktuelle Roller schon von eurer KI so? Also ist das ein User facing facing Feature oder ist das noch grade im Test? Und dann die Folge darauf, weil Du meintest, ja, ihr seid ja in der Verantwortung, darauf zu gucken, dass da eben kein Quatsch erzählt wird, aber es ist ja jetzt kein unterkomplexes Problem sicherzustellen, dass AI an der Stelle nicht halluziniert. Von daher gerne die Frage so, wie wie stellt ihr's denn sicher so?\n\nUnd könnt ihr das wirklich?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja. Also was Du im Moment schon mal draußen sehen kannst, was was schon draußen ist, ist im Moment erst mal unser unser Steuer GPT. Der ist und das ist eigentlich und deswegen ist der besonders wichtig für uns, der ist eigentlich die Grundlage für vieles, was in Zukunft kommt. Das heißt, wenn Du siehst, ob der halluziniert oder nicht, dann wird's auch die Software in Zukunft nicht. Und das Gute ist, wir haben schon 'n guten Qualitätsstand.\n\nWir sind gestartet, da war der Qualitätsstand noch nicht so supergut, ja. Was natürlich schon mal sehr hilft, das System arbeitet nur auf unserem Wissen, den wir ihm geben. Das heißt, der fängt nicht irgendwann der macht kein Internet suchen oder sonst irgendwann fängt nicht noch mal an, irgendwie literisches Steuerrecht auf einmal da mit reinzumixen oder sonst irgendwas, sondern der basiert rein auf unserem Content. Das ist, glaube ich, schon mal sehr wichtig. Dann haben wir noch einiges Weiteres getan.\n\nDa muss ich aber sagen, bin ich jetzt son bisschen inhaltlich raus, wie wir wie wir das das Fantasien an der Stelle dann verhindern. Aber dieser Steuer GPT, der jetzt im Moment als als einfache Frage Antwort Maschine funktioniert, der ist am Ende Grundlage, damit Du dann auch in der Software, ich sag mal, dialogbasiert deine Antworten auch geben kannst beziehungsweise auch Fragen aus der Software enthält.\n\nSpeaker 1: Mhm. Und vielleicht eine Frage, ich weiß gar nicht, ob Du diese beantworten kannst oder willst. Was ist denn, welchem Modell liegt das Ganze denn zugrunde? Weil Du jetzt auch grade vorhin meint hast, so, ihr müsst euch über On Premise Gedanken machen oder wo, wie jetzt grade 'n Zugriff von AI, so ist das eigenes Datencenter, wo liegt das? Und unterhalten wir uns da über 'n Open Source Modell oder ist das irgendein gehostetes Modell von einem der großen Anbieter?\n\nIch weiß nicht, ob das\n\nSpeaker 2: Das, was wir bei uns haben, ist all das, was wir bei uns haben. Wir haben die Open Source Modelle für intern. Aber wir sind natürlich auch, da sind wir grade dran, dass wir dass wir natürlich auch Weichen stellen. Also dass sich am Ende der Agent selber die Informationen holt und die LLMs bedient, die er am besten für die für die Beantwortung der Frage braucht oder für für die Ausführung des Tasks braucht. Aber alles, was wir im Moment draußen haben und alles, was irgendwie im Steuerbereich ist, ist wie gesagt am Brem und ist dementsprechend auch Open Source.\n\nSpeaker 1: Okay, verstanden. Cool. Dann würde ich das sagen, können wir doch jetzt gern mal die Abbiegung machen zu Bill Bob, oder?\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja. Und Du hast ja schon, glaub ich, eingangs gesagt, Bilob so als Tool für Rechnungserstellung, ich glaub, für so Freelancer, Selbstständige ist so die die Zielgruppe, ne, wenn ich das richtig im Kopf hatte. Und wenn man sich die die Webseite von von Bilbob anguckt, dann ist da ja Buhr sehr im im Hintergrund und man man sieht sowohl optisch als auch im im Branding als auch in in der Ansprache, dass es schon so sein sein eigenes Produkt ist, seine eigene Firma, Firmenphilosophie son bisschen vielleicht auch dahinter. Wie wie kam es dazu, dass ihr für euch gesagt habt, na ja, das ist ein ein Produkt, das wollen wir irgendwie als eigenes Start-up drehen und nicht hier als Teil von Bool VISO Produkt 37 irgendwie noch noch mit aufbauen.\n\nSpeaker 2: Also ganz so krass, wie Du's jetzt schilderst, sollte es gar nicht sein von bis Protokoll mal. Du siehst es ja zum Beispiel auch daran, Du kannst dich auch mit deinem Konto da einloggen, beziehungsweise wenn Du kein noch kein BULL Konto hast, dann erstellst Du dir auch ein BULL Konto an der Stelle, ja. Dass Du dann auch boolweit nutzen kannst.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und das, glaube ich, korrekterweise zu sagen, es ist auch, glaube ich, gar kein, also rechtlich gesehen ist es immer noch BULL auch hinten dran, der es hat keine eigene rechtliche Entität oder so.\n\nSpeaker 2: Es ist keine eigene Legal Entität,\n\nSpeaker 0: genau. Aber also es ist es wirkt halt so in seiner Ansprache son bisschen, das ist 'n bisschen jünger, das ist 'n bisschen verspielter, das ist 'n bisschen\n\nSpeaker 2: Es soll auch nur mal 'n bisschen mutiger sein, genau.\n\nSpeaker 0: Das Verzeihen, das ist 'n bisschen weniger angestaubt so, ja, vielleicht, ne. Aber aber was steht da für eine Entscheidung hintendran? Also das macht ihr ja nicht für alles, weil ihr habt ja auch unter unter Bool und und Viso einen großen Produktkatalog und da hätte es ja auch einen Teil von werden können. Ist es aber nicht, sondern ihr habt da was ganz Eigenes gemacht. Wie wie wie war das?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, es gibt mehrere Gründe dafür. Also zum einen ist es natürlich 'n Stück weit 'n Signaling, sowohl nach innen als auch nach außen. Wir bauen hier bewusst noch mal was ganz anderes, ja. Wir wollen uns hier auch nicht von Konventionen treiben lassen. Gleichzeitig wollen wir das, was wir haben und was uns wertvoll macht und auch, was wir an Infrastrukturintern haben, das wollen wir mitnehmen, wie eben wohl Konto, unsere eigenen Rechenzentren und so weiter.\n\nInsofern, es sollte, es hat den Anspruch son bisschen beides aus das Beste aus beiden Welten zu vereinen. Aber klar ist eben, wir wollen hier was wir wollen hier was Neues machen. Wir haben hier 'n Mobile First Produkt. Wir wollen wir haben hier ein Produkt, das wir eigentlich immer mehr mit KI ausstatten. Wir wollen auch gleichzeitig einfach wirklich, wirklich schnell hier sein, Continuous Deployment.\n\nWir wollen mehrmals am Tag releasen, so wie es eben Sinn ergibt und das wollen wir sowohl nach innen als auch nach außen sichtbar machen, dass dass hier noch mal anders gefahren wird auch. Dass es hier eben auch keinen Rhythmus von außen gibt, der uns etwas diktiert.\n\nSpeaker 0: Mhm. Und wie habt ihr diese diese Trennung für euch intern geschaffen? Wie scharf war das? Habt ihr da ein komplett neues Team für eingestellt, vielleicht auch mal bisschen frisches Blut, frisches Mindset reinzukriegen oder habt ihr aus den bestehenden Produkt Teams son bisschen geräubert und gesagt, so, ah, der der würde sich sehr gut da vereignen, hier und der Kollege da drüben doch bestimmt auch und die Kollegin da hinten, die nehmen wir auch noch mit und überall son bisschen was mitgenommen und dann gesagt, okay, das ist jetzt hier euer Raum, euer Stockwerk, euer keine Ahnung was und da könnt ihr schalten und walten, wo ihr wollt oder oder wie wie viel Trennschärfe ist da?\n\nSpeaker 2: Es war Letzteres. Also wir haben kein neues Team eingestellt, absolut nicht. Es war eher, dass wir dass wir geräubert haben. Also ich muss auch sagen, da hab ich son bisschen die die die Macht meines Amtes genutzt und hab gesagt, ich möchte jetzt gern die Besten hier in diesem Raum versammeln. Und ihr habt jetzt auch die Freiheit, aber entsprechend viel Wir erwarten jetzt auch viel, wir haben besonderen Anspruch an dieses Produkt.\n\nUnd dementsprechend haben wir gesagt, wir bauen hier die Besten der Besten aus, auch was nicht heißt, dass es dass es noch viele weitere von diesen Leuten gibt. Aber wir sind bewusst auch etwas andere Wege gegangen, ja. Zum Beispiel, wir haben bewusst gesagt, okay, wer bei Bilbop mitarbeiten möchte, wir machen jetzt das, was eigentlich heute überhaupt nicht mehr in ist. Wir machen 4 Tage Präsenz, weil wir gesagt haben,\n\nSpeaker 0: wir\n\nSpeaker 2: haben hier 'n neues Produkt. Es ist viel Konzeptionsarbeit. Es wird davon leben, dass die Leute viel miteinander kommunizieren. Wir wollen wir wollen Raum haben mit Whiteboard. Und dieses Whiteboard sollen sich sollen sich die Leute versammeln und gemeinsam schreiben und malen können.\n\nUnd dafür haben wir gesagt, brauchen wir grade jetzt eine Präsenzkultur. Und damit war das Team auch nicht für jedermann. Nicht jeder wollte das, das war auch völlig okay. Aber die die, die wollten, die haben's aus Überzeugung getan, glaube ich, Klammer auf, Klammer zu, ich denke schon. Und ich bin sehr froh, dass wir es haben.\n\nEs ist eine große Geschwindigkeit, die wir dort im Team fahren. Es macht auch viel, viel Spaß. Deswegen also ich bin gerne genau in diesem Team Hands on und ich denke, wir haben auch ja 'n hohes Niveau in allen Positionen, die wir dort haben. Und wenn die dann zusammenkommt, dann entsteht auch wirklich was Gutes.\n\nSpeaker 0: Da auch noch mal zum Verständnis, wie groß ist das BillBob Team so?\n\nSpeaker 2: Viel kleiner, als die meisten Leute denken. Jetzt muss ich durchzählen. Du siehst, ich kann auch durchzählen 6 Leute.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ah, ich hab grad hier,\n\nSpeaker 1: ich hab grad 6 gezeigt\n\nSpeaker 0: so unterm Tisch. Nein, nein, 60. Nee, 5 hatte ich hier gerade so unterm unterm Tisch.\n\nSpeaker 2: Es sind 6, aber wir haben natürlich auch viele Hilfe vom Rest des Unternehmens. Wie gesagt, wir müssen uns keine Rechenzentren kümmern. US, muss man sagen, gehört auch nicht dazu, sondern ist ist Teil unseres unseres eigenen US Teams. Und so haben wir eben noch noch viel Unterstützung und viele Funktionen, die eben ansonsten unternehmensweit angesiedelt sind.\n\nSpeaker 1: Das halten wir zum Verständnis, welche Profession bei den 6 Leuten, also wie viel sind Entwickler designen?\n\nSpeaker 2: Die Entwickler ein Produktmanagement, ein Design.\n\nSpeaker 0: Cool. Ja. Das klingt ähnlich wie bei uns eigentlich. Das klingt\n\nSpeaker 1: nicht für uns. Sehr gute Teamgrößen halten wir auch für sehr sinnvoll, viel schaffen zu können. Ja.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und dieser dieser Modus, den ihr da jetzt gefunden habt, ist das was, wo ihr sagt, den den ziehen wir jetzt durch oder das das ist jetzt das Billbob Modell und das das bleibt quasi so. Vielleicht wird es vielleicht größer, wenn das Produkt auch größer wird.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, bis zu 500000000 a yeah. Nein, Scherz.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja. Also so lang, bis es dann komplett ausgegliedert wird. Oder ist das eher so wie son Inkubator und irgendwann sagt er, na ja, jetzt ist hat das Produkt vielleicht eine gewisse Reife erreicht, eine gewisse Größe, eine gewisse Stabilität und wir holen das quasi zurück nach Hause in Anführungszeichen und dann wird es so ganz normal eingegliedert und verhält sich dann auch mehr so wie der Rest der der Bullteams und der Produkte?\n\nSpeaker 2: Die Wahrheit liegt wird wahrscheinlich in der Mitte liegen. Also das das Ziel ist schon, wir wollen so lang wie möglich agil bleiben. Wir wollen grundsätzlich immer diese Philosophie fahren, dass wir sagen, lieber weniger Leute, dafür die Besten mit dabei. Das ist das ist etwas, was wir durchziehen wollen. Und trotzdem, wenn das Produkt wächst, wenn auch vielleicht die Integration damit dazu den anderen Produkten noch mal stärker ist, egal ob das auf 'ner Produktseite oder auf 'ner Marketingseite, dann wird es sicherlich noch mal näher ranrücken an, ich sag mal, die Standardprozesse im Haus.\n\nUnd trotzdem ist es immer das Ziel, dass wir, wenn wir ein solches Produkt reinholen, dass das die anderen nach vorne bringt und die Prozesse, die die fahren, die anderen nach vorne bringt. Nicht, dass es dann auf einmal unter sone sone Decke des Standards kommt, ja. Sondern das ist immer das Ziel, dass egal, wo wir Newcomer haben, egal, ob wir neue Teammitglieder haben, ob wir irgendwo 'n neues Produkt mit dabei haben, ja, dass die eigentlich noch mal eine Verbesserung durchführen beim ganzen Rest.\n\nSpeaker 0: Jetzt hast Du schon ganz viele Stellen genannt, wo das ja vorteilhaft war, diese diese Arbeitsweise zu wählen. Ich hab da 2 Fragen zu, die vielleicht auch son bisschen auf die Nachteile zielen. Das eine ist, wenn man jetzt grade, wie Du gesagt hast, eher so aus dem bestehenden Personal räubert und sich da so die die Leute rauspickt, auch wenn man die besten oder die Richtigsten dafür findet, die sind ja doch wahrscheinlich eher noch ein anderes Arbeiten gewohnt. Ich mein das gar nicht wertend, aber halt, ne, mit 500 anderen zusammenarbeitet man halt anders zusammen als mit 5 anderen. Habt ihr da sone gewisse Startphase gehabt, auch so so so son Mindsetwechsel irgendwie zu haben?\n\nSagen okay, das machen wir jetzt anders und hier überlegen wir uns 'n anderen, schlankeren Prozess, nicht per Default so in diese Standardmuster zurückzufallen?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, absolut. Also wir haben anfangs auch 'n Stück weit anders gearbeitet, aber nicht so sehr, weil wir gesagt haben, wir wollen jetzt anders sein, es anders sein zu wählen, sondern weil wir gesagt haben, hey, es ergibt jetzt keinen Sinn, wenn wir jetzt von Anfang an irgendwie 'n full flatcht Scrum Prozess fahren, wenn wir noch keine Ahnung haben, wie die Userstory aussieht oder so. Sondern es war tatsächlich ein Hand in Hand arbeiten im Prinzip. Du kannst das so vorstellen, Produktmanagement und Design waren irgendwie so die Schneefräse und die Entwickler sind wie die sind wie der Lkw direkt hinter 5 Meter da hinterhergefahren durch die durch dieselbe Schneise. So liefen die eher zusammen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Gab's da auch son paar Sachen, wo ihr gesagt habt, okay, dieses oder jenes wollen wir auf alle Fälle jetzt mal anders machen und wir wollten schon immer mal, weiß es nicht, nicht Scrum ausprobieren, sondern 'n anderes Lines Modell oder wir wollten schon immer mal 'n anderen Tech Stack und jetzt haben wir die Chance. Also was was ehrlicherweise ja auch nicht immer son eine reine Businessentscheidung ist, sondern einfach auch manchmal so ausm Bauch raus, nicht einfach mal was anderes machen. So, jetzt haben wir die Chance, mal was anderes zu probieren. Gab's so Momente auch?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, absolut. Also ich mein, wie Du sagst, wir wir haben auf der grünen Wiese angefangen und das hat uns natürlich jede Menge Möglichkeiten gegeben. Wir haben uns son bisschen, ich hab das damals sogenannte im Alliance Meeting, wir haben uns son bisschen, ist son bisschen das Best of Album der Pool. Also überall, wo wir gesehen haben, dies und jenes hat sich bewährt, egal ob das 'n Prozess ist oder Technologie ist. Das ist dann etwas, das haben wir von Anfang an dort mitnehmen können.\n\nSpeaker 1: Kannst Du, auch wenn wir ja schon am Anfang gesagt hatten, wir sind jetzt kein CTO Special, trotzdem sagen, was dann die, was ist 'n was ist son Technologiestag bei jetzt zum zum Beispiel Billbob? Also ist seid ihr mit 'nem, ja, Du hast also erst mal, ihr seid nur mobile only, ne. Also es gibt keine\n\nSpeaker 2: Nein, wir sind mobile first. Das war zum Beispiel ein Thema. Wir haben wir haben Bilboop einfach, weil wir damit sehr gute Erfahrungen gemacht haben. Wir haben Bilboop als Progress Web App, als PBA aufgebaut.\n\nSpeaker 1: Okay.\n\nSpeaker 2: Das heißt, wir haben Mobile First immer als Design, aber wir haben im Prinzip den gleichen Code auf allen Geräten, egal ob Web oder in der nativen App oder responsive den Web logischerweise. Das war zum Beispiel etwas, was wir vorher in 'nem anderen Produkt, in dem Fall Finanzflick, durch durchgeführt und durchgesetzt hatten und ausgeführt haben, sehr gute Erfahrungen damit gemacht haben. Es hat einfach dafür gesorgt, der Entwicklungs- und der Pflegeaufwand hinterher ist einfach so viel geringer. Die die Komplexität, die Du zu bedenken hast, ist so viel geringer. Du hast in den Apps, Du hast praktisch nur noch sone Art nativen Rahmen mit sehr begrenzten Aufgaben, so was wie Face ID oder so was, ja.\n\nDie baust Du im Prinzip drum rum und der ganze Rest ist standardisiert und eine Code Base. Ich glaube, andere anders hätten wir es auch mit der Teamkurse überhaupt nicht geschafft.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, weil das ja auch ein, wie wir auch lange vorgegangen sind, auch mit unseren Games, wenn wir sie teilweise vom Web hin ins Nativeportiert haben, dass das auch einfach nur 'n ganz kleiner Webview ist mit 'nem kleinen Rapper und der Rest der des Codes ist gleich. Das hat auf jeden Fall die Vorteile, was Wartbarkeit auf jeden Fall angeht. Man kann mit kleineren Teams sehr viel mehr schaffen, als wenn's verschiedene sind.\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau.\n\nSpeaker 0: Weil ihr grade beide son bisschen bei der Teamgröße wart, wie ist denn so der Wachstumsplan für Bilbop dann innerhalb von Bool? Wenn ihr jetzt zum Beispiel neue Leute brauchen würde oder wollt, ne, hast grad schon darüber gesprochen, dass das ja immer eine sehr bewusste Entscheidung auch sein sollte, wenn man da mehr Leute dazunimmt, Stellt ihr dann als Billbob ein und kriegt ihr dann Bewerbungen für Billbob oder ist das einfach so, Leute bewerben sich bei Bool und dann landen sie vielleicht bei bei VISO oder vielleicht bei Billbob oder oder wie wie wollt ihr wachsen? Vielleicht auch\n\nSpeaker 1: als Kontext, also kannst Du kurz sagen, ich wir haben gar nicht darüber gesprochen, wie lange es Bilbop schon gibt. Also wie wie wie matcheur ist dieses Produktprojekt?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja. Also Bilbop ist ist ist noch sehr jung. Ich glaub, die Erste, wer's wohnt, die öffentlich wirklich zugänglich war, die man so ganz, ganz vorsichtig beworben haben und so ganz vorsichtig mal raus in die Welt gesetzt haben. Ich glaube, die war aus 'nem November oder Dezember letzten Jahres, also vielleicht son Dreivierteljahr alt oder so was, die allerersten Anfänge. Zu der zu der Frage, wie wir an dieser Stelle auch recruiten, also jeder weiß schon, auf welches Projekt er kommt.\n\nJeder Bewerber, das ist auch schon wichtiger. Er wird auch innerhalb, er lernt auch die Leute aus dem Projekt kennen. Der Teamleiter ist Teil des Interviews. Insofern, Du bewirbst dich nicht blind und dann stehst Du stehst Du morgens hier und wir sagen dir, ja, hupserla, Du bist hier oder hupserla, Du bist leider Du bist in meinem Büro oder Du bist im Steuer oder Du bist im Billbob. So ist es nicht, nee.\n\nSpeaker 0: Aber das heißt, es bewerben sich schon alle erst mal bei Bool sozusagen?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja gut, Du Du bewirbst dich bei Bool als Unternehmen, aber es ist immer klar, für welches Produkte Du dich bewirbst oder für welches für welches Produkt die Stelle ist. Das meine ich, deswegen Du sprichst ja auch mit deinen zukünftigen Kollegen, lernst die auch kennen und lernst dann auch das Produkt kennen, lernst auch die Technologien kennen beziehungsweise hast dir in der Regel auch ein Skill Set, der genau zu den benötigten Skill Set und Technologien im Produkt passt.\n\nSpeaker 0: Na, ich seh's dir grade auf der Website. Ihr beschreibt schon sehr ausführlich, was die Leute dann eigentlich machen sollen am Ende des Tages. Was interessant?\n\nSpeaker 2: Aber was auch wichtig ist, wir haben tatsächlich intern auch auch Bewegung drin. Das heißt, Leute, die vorher auf auf 'nem Produkt Finanzpflicht waren, sind vielleicht morgen auf 'nem auf 'nem Produkt, mein Verein oder so was. Das ist absolut der Fall. Es ist auch für uns eine gute gute Möglichkeit, den Leuten auch Weiterentwicklung zu ermöglichen, in andere Technologien reinzuschauen. Natürlich auch Aufstiegsmöglichkeiten.\n\nJa, in 'nem kleinen Team hast Du ja eben auch nicht unendlich viele Aufstiegsmöglichkeiten. Da kommt es uns einfach zu Pass und es kommt auch unseren Mitarbeitern immer zu Pass, dass Du eben die Möglichkeit hast, intern sehr viele verschiedene Aufgaben wahrzunehmen. Nicht nur Produkte eben, sondern auch Infrastruktur, klar.\n\nSpeaker 1: Aber wie hast Du denn, weil weil jetzt Du Jan, Du bist ja jetzt schon damit implizit davon ausgegangen, dass für BillBob Leute gesucht werden, Leute eingestellt werden. Ich hatte, glaub ich, die eine Frage\n\nSpeaker 0: Glaub einfach fest an den Erfolg von dem Produkt, Fabi.\n\nSpeaker 1: Das hat ja, aber das hat ja, das 1 der mit dem anderen nix zu tun. Das wär nämlich meine Frage, ob die es auch gut abzielt. So, also ist es denn, weil Du ganz vorne am Anfang im Gespräch hast Du gemeint, ja, kennt ja jede die Situation, ich weiß gar nicht, in welchem Kontext Du es gesagt hattest Du, aber man hat ja immer man hat immer mehr zu tun, hat am liebsten immer mehr Leute, die noch irgendwie sozusagen noch Dinge irgendwie erledigen können so. Und mich würde mal interessieren, hast Du bei Bill Bob dieses Gefühl? Oder hast Du dieses Gefühl, hey, da sitzen jetzt, da sitzt ein Team von 6 Leuten, mit denen werden wir sehr lange sehr gut und schnell entwickeln können.\n\nWeil natürlich immer die Problematik ist, sobald Du mit 2, sobald Du mit Scrum entwickelst, sobald Du mit Skate machst und irgendwie 2 Teams hast, so, kommt ja so viel Kommunikationsoberhead mit rein, dass Du ja es eine sehr lange Zeit gibt, wo Du sagen kannst, hey, mit 6 Leuten werd ich so viel schaffen können, sodass es echt die Frage ist, macht's überhaupt Sinn? Also klar, 2, 3 kriegt man vielleicht noch unter, aber irgendwann will's ja an die Grenze kommen so. Wann krieg ich mehr Produktivität rein und wann muss ich wirklich eine ganze Ecke mehr Leute drauf geben, dass ich dieses Produktivitätseinbuße durch Kommunikationsoberhead überhaupt wieder drin hab? Also die Frage, ist überhaupt der da, mittelfristig als Leute einzustellen oder siehst Du dieses Modell längerfristig so für Billbob, was die Teamgröße angeht?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, ich glaub, das ist 'n Punkt, der hat sich jetzt grade in den letzten ein, 2 Jahren deutlich geändert. Du siehst Du siehst natürlich heute die ganzen die ganzen AI Tools draußen. Wir haben nach dem Motto, wir haben ein mit einem Vollzeit und 1 einem Azubi haben wir innerhalb von anderthalb Wochen auf 100000000 AR AR AR AR oder so was, ja. Du siehst halt diese diese ganzen Stories von diesen extrem kleinen Teams, wo ich ehrlich gesagt vorsichtig bin, wo ich mir denke, okay, Du hast eine 100000000 ARA Unternehmen und ihr seid 20, wenn das wirklich stimmt, ja. Gesund kann das nicht sein.\n\nAngenommen, ihr habt irgendwann mal ein Problem, wie wollt ihr mit 20 Leuten diese riesige Menge an Kunden, die ihr habt, wie wollt ihr denen ordentlich noch Support geben? Wie wollt ihr die noch ordentlich unterstützen oder so? Wenn irgendwann mal was nicht ganz nach Plan geht, also das halt ich nicht für für gesund. Aber auf der anderen Seite glaube ich, dass Du heute mit weniger Leuten sehr viel weiterkommst als früher. Die Produktivität jedes Einzelnen, nicht nur nicht nur 1 Entwicklers, sondern eben auch 1 Designers und 1 Produktmanagers beginnt ja jetzt schon zu steigen und wird sicherlich auch noch mal steigen jetzt in den nächsten in den nächsten Jahren.\n\nDas heißt, ich glaub, Du kannst sehr viel mehr bewegen mit weniger Leuten, als das noch vor einiger Zeit möglich war. Und ich bin sehr froh über diese Entwicklung, gar nicht mehr so sehr irgendwie aus Kosten oder aus betriebswirtschaftlichen Gründen, sondern eben, wie Du sagst, es es hält die Komplexität gering, ja? Du hast weniger Wege, wenig Kommunikationswege, weniger Ansprechpartner. Aber irgendwann wird sicherlich ein Punkt kommen, da wo's da musst Du sagen, okay, es war bis hierhin sinnvoll und jetzt fangen wir an, uns selber zu beschränken und jetzt müssen wir auch mehr Leute aufbauen. Jetzt muss es vielleicht 'n zweites Entwicklungsteam sein.\n\nUnd ich glaube, es ist genauso schädlich, wenn Du diesen Punkt ignorierst, der guten alten Zeitenbildung und des wohllieben Gefühls das Miteinanderwägen.\n\nSpeaker 1: Und aber versteh ich's jetzt richtig, wenn ich das zwischen den Zeilen rausstehe, dass Du sagst, dieses Setup, wie ihr's jetzt habt, ist überhaupt erst möglich geworden durch AI? Würdest Du sagen, vor 3 Jahren hättest Du in dem Set-up noch 'n Billbob noch nicht so entwickeln können?\n\nSpeaker 2: Nee, nee, das nee, nee, so weit nee. So weit würd ich nicht gehen. Du hättest Du kannst sicher immer schon, Du konntest auch schon vor 10 Jahren mit 'nem sechsterteam weit kommen. Ich glaube nur, dieses sechster Team ist heute jetzt schon produktiver oder hat zumindest die Möglichkeiten, produktiver zu sein, als das noch vor wenigen Jahren der Fall sein war. Und ich glaube, das wird noch weiter zunehmen.\n\nIch glaube, dank TUMING, dank AI wird auch nächstes Jahr werden wir nächstes oder übernächstes Jahr hier sitzen und sagen, okay, wir sind noch mal produktiver geworden und wir kommen insofern als nächstes Team jetzt noch mal weiter, als es vor einigen Jahren noch der Fall gewesen wäre.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ich müsste aber auch\n\nSpeaker 1: später die Frage sozusagen stellen, wann ihr eskaliert, weil ihr länger Genau. Die Produktivität hochhäuten könnt.\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau. Aber dass Du mit dem Sechster Team gut starrtest und gut weit kommen kannst, das war sicherlich schon immer so.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, aber ich glaube, dieser Punkt mit 6 Leute tragen dich heute einfach, weiß nicht, doppelt fünfmal so lange wie früher, das ist, glaub ich, der entscheidende Unterschied. Ja. So. Ich würd gern den den BillBob Kreis schließen, so, weil Du vorhin gesagt hast, wenn man so ein ein Start-up, ein unabhängiges Produktteam wieder zurückführen würde, würde man das nur machen, wenn es alle anderen auch weiterbringt, ja. Wie könnte denn son Szenario aussehen?\n\nHattet ihr so was schon mal? Habt ihr da Kriterien für, was ihr euch wünschen? Was könnte eine Bereicherung sein, die ein ein Billbob oder vergleichbare Projekte zurück zum großen Bool bringen?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja. Das kann auf jeder Ebene sein. Aber jetzt nehmen wir mal Themen wie wie AI Funktionalität, wo wir ja auch bewusst ja bei Willwolf sagen, hey, auch hier können wir noch mal Bayer agieren. Hier müssen wir nicht unbedingt in unserem On Preme AI Stack unterwegs sein. Hier können wir irgendwie an irgend 'n Public LLM gehen oder wegen an 5 oder oder 10, ja.\n\nGrade das, was grade möglich ist und was uns am weitesten bringt. Diese Erfahrung, die wir haben, das ist zum Beispiel etwas, was Du wieder mit zurückbringen kannst, ja. Wo andere vielleicht auch sagen, hey, wir haben bisher uns eben, kehrt, wenn jetzt am Anfang, immer als diejenigen verkauft, die ausschließlich und immer alles auf den eigenen Rechenzentren in Deutschland hosten. Wo wir jetzt sagen können, hey, ja, aber hier hast Du vielleicht eine Möglichkeit gefunden, dass die wichtigen Sachen immer noch hier bleiben, Du aber trotzdem durch Pseudonyme, pseudonymisierte Daten oder was auch immer andere Möglichkeiten noch mal nutzen kannst. Und wir haben's dir vorgemacht und schau mal, es funktioniert und die Kundenakzeptanz ist da.\n\nDann lass es uns jetzt auch in größerer Skalierung machen. Selbes natürlich dann für Prozesse, für die Art und Weise, wie Teams miteinander arbeiten et cetera et cetera. Ich glaube, Du kannst immer, wenn Du 'n junges Team hast, das dich irgendwo bewährt hast und 'n junges Projekt, 'n junges Produkt, ich glaube, das hat immer den großen Vieh was zu geben. Aber das auch mal zu sagen, umgekehrt ganz genauso. Wir sind grade jetzt bei Billwob in der Phase, wo wir wo wir eben auch viel Buchhaltungsfunktionalität einbauen, was man nach außen noch nicht sehen kann, denn es ist immer etwas ungünstig, sone Viertelbuchhaltung zu releasen.\n\nWo wir umgekehrt sagen, wir müssen jetzt ganz, ganz viel aus anderen Bereichen, auch aus dem Steuerbereich lernen und sagen, okay, was ist für euch der Anspruch an Qualität? Wo sagt ihr, okay, das müssen wir alles noch mitnehmen, ja? Und diese letzte Wendung, die müssen wir auch noch mal bedenken und dieser Edge Case, den werden wir jetzt auch abbilden, einfach weil das unser Anspruch ist. Und da sind wir grade total in der Lernphase. Jetzt ist jetzt ist der Drehpunkt, wo wo wir dann auch sagen, okay, jetzt mal vorwärts brechen als kleines Inhouse Start-up ist gut und schön.\n\nAber das bedeutet nicht, dass wir hier oberflächlich sein können, ganz im Gegenteil.\n\nSpeaker 0: Mhm. Du sprichst ja noch 'n interessantes Thema an, nämlich so Qualitätssicherung. Der das Gros der Firmen da draußen betreibt, glaub ich, 2 Arten von Qualitätssicherung. Gar keine. Oder es gibt sone dedizierte Tester Rolle, das sind meistens vielleicht son bisschen eher einstiegsjuniorigere Rollen, die einfach so damit beauftragt werden, ja, klickt halt mal hier son bisschen in unsere App rum und versucht sie mal son bisschen kaputt zu machen und meldet uns, was ihr so für Fehler findet.\n\nDas ist, zumindest in meiner Consultingzeit sind's das so, die steckt, glaub ich, 90 Prozent der Firmen da draußen ab. Bei euch stell ich's mir sehr anders vor, ja, weil ja a eure Testcases wahrscheinlich unglaublich komplex sind und ja allein auch die Validierung von na ja, dem, was da rauskommt und ist das richtig oder nicht, ja auch unglaublich viel Fachwissen und Expertise erfordert. Also wer testet bei euch und wie?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja. Du musst eben, Du hast es Du hast die Frage wie bisschen selbst mit mit beantwortet. Du musst 'n bisschen unterscheiden zwischen denen, was was in Anführungsstrichen eine normale Software QS macht und was vielleicht fachliche Tests sind. Diese fachlichen Tests, die müssen auch tatsächlich von Fachexperten sein. Umgekehrt haben wir aber auch Leute, die beides sind, ja?\n\nDie vielleicht auch schon lange im Unternehmen sind, die auch die Fachlichkeit mittlerweile voll drauf haben, die beides 'n Stück weit erfüllen können. Aber generell musst Du zwischen diesen Rollen unterscheiden oder Du musst zumindest mal klar definieren, wer macht hier die fachlichen Tests? Und wie gesagt, dafür haben wir auch grade grade im Steuerbereich, aber auch auch in der Buch im im Buchhaltungsbereich haben wir Fachleute, die teilweise sogar Steuerberaters sind, die die 'n Fachwirt haben, Steuerfachleute. Also insofern, die Expertise musst Du dann schon an Bord haben, ohne geht es nicht.\n\nSpeaker 0: Mhm. Und wenn wir schon bei dem Thema Qualität sind, Du hast vorhin auch gesagt so, ihr habt auch Fehler gemacht und das gehört dazu, ne. Nur aus Fehlern lernt man ja am Ende des Tages auch. Hast Du so einen Punkt, wo Du zurückdenkst und sagst, boah, in dem Moment, als das aufgekommen oder passiert oder entschieden wurde, hat das megadramatisch gewirkt, aber rückblickend war das eigentlich eine sehr wichtige Lektion oder son Moment, wo man immer wieder dran zurückgehen kann und son bisschen reflektiert was mitnehmen kann. Die schweren Fragen kommen immer am Ende.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, ist eine gute Frage, ich sag mal so. Du sagst ja, aus jedem Fehler lernst Du, aber ich würd's 'n bisschen relativieren. Oft lernst Du ja nicht aus den einzelnen Fehlern, oft lernst Du ja aus mehreren Fehlern, zu verstehen, okay, was ist der grundsätzliche falsche Denkansatz, der diesen der diesen Fehlern gemein war? Ja. Beispiel Technologieentscheidungen, wo Du sagst, okay, ich hab mich jetzt für irgend 'n heißen Scheiß entschieden und 2 Jahre später musste ich wieder feststellen, okay, wir waren irgendwie mit den Einzigen, die das genommen haben und wahrscheinlich haben sie auch noch falsch verwendet.\n\nSo war's überhaupt nicht gedacht, ja. Und wenn Du siehst, das ist irgendwie 'n Stück weit 'n Denkmuster oder dir ist das mehrmals passiert, dann kannst Du ja in Zukunft auch drauf achten, ja. Also insofern, ich würde sagen, aus der aus der Summe der Fehler lernt man.\n\nSpeaker 0: Das ist schön.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja. Und gab's denn, weil Du ja so meintest so zu bestimmten Zeiten darf's keine Releases geben zu diesen Abgabezeiten und so weiter. Gab's denn, was diese harten Anforderungen gab mal irgendwelche sehr kopfschmelze Fuck ups auf eurer Seite so, wo Also ich mein, in 40 Jahren kann ja dann doch mal auch was schief gehen, auch wenn man probiert, es nicht nichts falsch zu machen, also irgendwie keine Ahnung, wo am Ende jeder 'n kleinen Fehler in seiner Steuererklärung hatte. Gab's so was mal?\n\nSpeaker 0: Oh Gott, das klingt schon sehr\n\nSpeaker 1: hart, aber geh ja grade.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, ja. Also in jeder kleinen Fehler hatten wir in der in der Form nicht, aber wir haben zum Beispiel auch jetzt gehabt, wir hatten, wann war's? Ich glaub so. Es waren noch 14 Tage, 3 Wochen vor der Deadline. Da waren wir tatsächlich, ging wir mal eine Viertelstunde offline.\n\nKlingt nicht so furchtbar, aber wenn Du mal bei uns im Servicecenter guckst, ja. Wenn wenn Du mal davon ausgehst, nur ein Prozent der Kunden würde anrufen, wir könnten dieses Volumen auf Monate wahrscheinlich nicht mehr handeln. Und deswegen ist selbst ein Fehler, der nicht alle betrifft, ist bei uns ganz schnell ganz schön schmerzhaft. Also das das war jetzt mal 'n Beispiel gewesen, wo wir alle nur heilfroh waren. Gut, dass es irgendwie am, ich weiß nicht mehr, wann es war, am zwölften Achten passiert ist und nicht am dreißigsten oder noch schlimmer am einunddreißigsten Achten.\n\nAlso insofern, die haben wir die haben wir regelmäßig, wir versuchen den den dieser Fehler einfach nur zu verringern und das Risiko zu verringern, dass das eben viele betrifft oder zu falschen Zeiten kommt.\n\nSpeaker 1: Und nur als Folgefrage noch zu dem, wo Du als Beispiel meintest so, dass man zu früh auf Technologie und neue Technologien gedacht hast, der neueste heiße Scheiß hat's vielleicht auch noch falsch benutzt. Und aus diesen Fehlern in der Summe lernt man. Ist es denn so, dass ihr aus so Technologiefehlentscheidung irgendwie allgemeinere Ableitung getroffen habt, wie es gibt nur noch ein definiertes Text Stack oder irgendwas so? Ist das wirklich ein Fehler, aus dem ihr, aus dem 1 Entscheidung irgendwie resultiert ist, was jetzt so Text Stack angeht?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja. Also wir haben bewusst kein ganz fest definiertes Text Deck, ja. Jetzt ist es natürlich auch nicht so, dass wir jetzt irgendwie alle 3 Monate eine neue Software launchen, wo wir komplett neue neues Text Deck verwenden können. Aber ich glaube schon, dass wir gelernt haben auf den richtigen Mix aus, hat sich etabliert und ist verbreitet und auch zum Beispiel findest Du Entwickler für zu achten Ja. Versus es wird uns auch in die Zukunft tragen.\n\nJa, also insofern auch das sind Text Tech Fehlentscheidungen, die wir gehabt haben, dass wir gesagt haben, wir setzen hier auf etwas und hinterher findest Du keine Leute, die die damit umgehen können oder die es lernen müssen. Und das ist fast so tödlich, als wenn's einfach technologisch eine schlechte Entscheidung war.\n\nSpeaker 0: Wir haben das Gespräch angefangen mit wie wie ihr früher mal Microsoft Lizenzen irgendwie verkauft habt und das Wichtigste war, dass ihr die Lizenzen und die Zertifikate sauber aufhebt, ja. Und das ist natürlich zu heute 20, 25 Jahre später 'n ganz schön großer Wandel so, ja. Wie stellst Du dir Bool in den nächsten 20, 25 Jahren vor?\n\nSpeaker 2: In den nächsten 20, 25 Jahren? Also Jan, ganz ehrlich, ich bin ich bin heilfroh, wenn ich irgendwie eine grobe Vorstellung hab, was vielleicht in den nächsten 2 Jahren passiert. Das ist das ohne Flachs jetzt ist das 'n Zeithorizont, über den denke ich ganz bewusst nicht nach, denn ich sehe einfach, wir sind, das haben wir ja gesagt, ist ja auch das Spannende an unserem Business, wir sind in einem solchen High Velocity Business, das sich das sich ständig wieder verändert. Also die nächsten 20, 25 Jahre kann ich dir kann ich dir nicht sagen, will ich auch nicht in Die lasse ich auch 'n Stück weit bewusst auf mich zukommen. Das ist 'n Weg, den den müssen wir beim Gehen finden.\n\nDas haben wir immer schon so gemacht und wir haben als Unternehmen haben wir immer tiefgreifende Veränderungen gehabt, wie zum Beispiel, weil Du grad das Microsoft Geschäft angesprochen hast. Dieses Microsoft Geschäft haben wir irgendwann komplett aufgegeben, weil es einfach faktisch nicht mehr existierte. Das war unser größte unser unsere größte Umsatzsäule damals gewesen. Die haben wir praktisch mit Software, eine eigene Software uns erst mal wieder mühsam neu erarbeiten müssen. Und diese Art von Umbrüchen, die haben wir die haben wir mehrmals gehabt und die wird auch immer wiederkommen.\n\nUnd deswegen sehe ich es als als meine Aufgabe, dass dass wir dir auch, dass ich dafür sorge, dass wir die Augen aufhalten, dass wir sehen, wenn ein solcher Umbruch wiederkommt und ich glaube jetzt, dass wir mit dem Thema AI einen solchen Umbruch haben, einfach eine Art und Weise, wie ich Software verwende, wie ich Software bediene, wie ich mit Software umgehe, weil ich von Software erwarte. Und ich ich deswegen bin ich heifroh, wenn man diesen nächsten Umbruch, ja, wenn wenn wir auf dieser Welle surfen und uns diese Welle nicht überrollt.\n\nSpeaker 0: Das ist das ist ja gut, dass das euer euer Fokuspunkt. Das hätte ja auch sein können, dass ihr jetzt doch Angst habt, dass, weiß ich nicht, Friedrich Schmelz die Steuererklärung aufm Bierdeckel durchsetzt und so euer Geschäftsmodell wegbricht auf einmal, ja?\n\nSpeaker 2: Das kann passieren. Also ehrlich gesagt, ich glaube nicht, dass das passieren wird. Ich glaube, es gibt andere Faktoren, die dazu beitragen können, wie zum Beispiel Personalnot beim Finanzamt oder so. Aber auch das wäre etwas, von dem ich glaube, das würden wir das würden wir überstehen. Dafür haben wir einige dieser Umbrüche hinter uns und ich wäre ich bin guter Hoffnung, dass wir selbst so etwas Fundamentales wegstecken können, ist der falsche Ausdruck, dass wir damit umgehen könnten, ja, dass wir dann neue Wege finden würden.\n\nSpeaker 0: Das ist, glaub ich, 'n sehr schönes Schlusswort.\n\nSpeaker 2: Definitiv.\n\nSpeaker 0: Aber wir sind nicht am Ende, weil, Fabi, was kommt noch?\n\nSpeaker 1: Die letzte Frage?\n\nSpeaker 0: Die Schnellfragerunde. Die Schnellfragerunde. Mehrere Fragen. Ich war schon lange nicht\n\nSpeaker 1: mehr im City Ost Special.\n\nSpeaker 0: Fabi müssen eingerostet, aber wir machen das noch.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, wir haben ja eigentlich auch noch, ist sie nicht mehr aktiv, die die letzte Frage in der im City Ost Special? Die haben wir nicht mehr.\n\nSpeaker 0: Wieso was?\n\nSpeaker 1: Wenn Du einen Tipp an der Demo, was ich geben würdest, eigentlich hatten wir sone Frage auch, weil natürlich Ja,\n\nSpeaker 0: dann bitte, jetzt stellen.\n\nSpeaker 1: Das ist immer die letzte Frage. Was was willst Du jetzt zuerst machen? Die Schnellfragerunde oder die letzte Frage?\n\nSpeaker 0: Jetzt hast Du mich aus sonem Konzept gebracht. Wir machen\n\nSpeaker 1: Mach deine Schnellfragerunde.\n\nSpeaker 0: Wir machen die Schnellfragerunde zuerst und dann darfst Du damit den Abschluss machen. Okay, also eine Reihe entweder oder fragen Moritz, ohne lange zu überlegen. Entweder Hund oder Katze?\n\nSpeaker 2: Hund, ganz klar.\n\nSpeaker 0: Tee oder Kaffee?\n\nSpeaker 2: Kaffee.\n\nSpeaker 0: Auto oder Fahrrad?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ich lieb beides.\n\nSpeaker 0: Lassen wir mal ausnahmsweise gelten. Mac oder Windows oder Linux? Keine Ahnung, was ihr benutzt.\n\nSpeaker 2: Windows. Nicht Windows. Marketing, Design, alle Mac mittlerweile über viele.\n\nSpeaker 0: IOS oder Android? IOS. Büro oder remote?\n\nSpeaker 2: Büro.\n\nSpeaker 0: Native Apps oder Web?\n\nSpeaker 2: Was haben wir eben gesagt? Web mit dem Teamrahmen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Wunderbar. Teamwork oder Individualist?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ich muss mich entscheiden wollen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Was wär hilfreicher?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, dann nehme ich Teamwork\n\nSpeaker 0: E-Mail. Start-up oder Konzern? Start-up. Cool, das war die Schnellfragerunde. Das war\n\nSpeaker 1: die Schnellfragerunde, ja. Und eigentlich hören wir das CTO Special auf immer son bisschen mit, wir fangen wir fingen ja mit klein an, wie war dein Erstkontakt zu Technologie und hören auf, was würdest Du deinem kleinen Ich noch mal ins Ohr flüstern, wenn Du ihm jetzt noch mal einen kleinen Tipp mit deinen dann jetzt Was hatten wir hatten wir gesagt? So knapp 40. Habt ihr's gestimmt oder knapp drunter, so in die in die richtigen?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, nein. Noch 38, genau.\n\nSpeaker 1: Noch 38, ja, dann alle ungefähr das Ergebnis. So war\n\nSpeaker 0: ja alle gut dabei.\n\nSpeaker 1: Wenn Du da noch mal flüstern könntest in das in deinen in das Ohr deines jüngeren und ich so, gib's einen Tipp, den Du irgendwie mitgeben könntest, irgendwas was Du vielleicht, irgend 'n Fehler, den man vermeiden kann, irgendwas, was Du heute anders machen würdest mit deinem Wissen, wenn\n\nSpeaker 0: Du zurückblicken kannst.\n\nSpeaker 2: Gibt's da was? Ja, ich glaub, ich will 2 2 Dinge 2 Dinge fallen mir ein. Der erste Punkt ist, wenn Du irgendwo eigentlich weißt, dass etwas die richtige Entscheidung ist, auch wenn sie schwer ist, dann triff sie. Du musst sie früher oder später sowieso treffen und eine harte Entscheidung früher zu treffen, ist immer besser, als eine harte Entscheidung später zu treffen. Das ist Tipp Nummer 1.\n\nTipp Nummer 2, vertraue. Was ich damit meine, ich bin bekennender Christ und ich weiß, dass mein Leben in Gottes Hand ist und ich glaube an Gottes Führung für mein Leben. Und trotzdem ist es oft so, Du hast irgendwie 'n Ereignis grad auf der Arbeit, kann aber auch privat sein, ja? Und Du Du denkst natürlich dadrüber nach und Du grübelst und Du machst dir Sorgen und Du stellst alles auf den Prüfstand. Und Du stellst auf einmal die ganz allgemeinen Fragen nach dem Motto, mach ich hier das Richtige?\n\nWird das Unternehmen? Morgen bleibt es sein, ja? Und da ist etwas, wo ich sagen muss, nimm's locker. Es geht vorbei und Du weißt dich unter dieser Führung, vertrau dich dieser dieser Führung Gottes an. Und Du weißt auch, dann wird es 'n guter Weg gehen.\n\nUnd dieses Vertrauen, das würd ich, meinem Jungen sollen ich, glaub ich, noch mal mitgeben.\n\nSpeaker 1: Sind auf jeden Fall 2 sehr gute und allgemeingültige Aussagen, glaub ich. Grade, der erste Teil, wenn jetzt wenn wir jetzt nicht schon am Ende wären, könnt ich da auf jeden Fall noch mal sehr viel weiter reinfragen, welche Entscheidungen es bei dir waren. Aber ich finde trotzdem ist doch ein, lass lass uns lieber belassen bei dabei, weil ich glaub, das können sich viele von uns mitnehmen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Na ja, also wir haben ja grad schon gesagt, wir wissen nicht, wie es in 20 Jahren aussieht, also müssen wir 'n Follow-up machen zu dieser Folge in\n\nSpeaker 2: 20 Jahren. Ja, dann. Ja. Und\n\nSpeaker 1: die helfen dir auch ab jetzt noch mal wahrscheinlich für die nächsten 20 Jahre, diese beiden, sie immer mal Ich glaub,\n\nSpeaker 2: in 20 Jahren gibt's noch 'n Podcast Format. Wahrscheinlich gibt's oder wenn da was ganz anderes\n\nSpeaker 1: Ich mein, Bull wird's eher geben als unseren Podcast. Das ist auf jeden Fall schon mal eine\n\nSpeaker 0: Oh, jetzt bin ich 'n bisschen den Hals getroffen, Fabi, muss\n\nSpeaker 1: ich sagen. Ja, aber da würde ich sag, einmal nur weniger Arbeit für uns automatisch generieren. Ich hab\n\nSpeaker 2: aufs Format auch nur angespielt, wollt ich nur mal sagen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja. Wunderbar. Und wir sehen's ja in den 20 Jahren, wie's dann wie's dann aussieht. Auf alle Fälle dir heute schon mal supervielen Dank, Moritz, für die Zeit, die Du dir genommen hast, für die Fragen, für Rede und Antwort, die Du gestanden hast. Ja, vielen Dank.\n\nAllen da draußen vielen Dank, dass Sie wieder zugehört haben. Ihr könnt uns jederzeit erreichen auf Social Media, auf unserem Discord Server. Ihr könnt uns E-Mails schreiben an Podcast at Programmier Punkt bar. Wir freuen uns immer über Feedback, Vorschläge, Anregungen, Kritik aller Art und selbst wenn ihr uns nicht schreibt, wir hören uns so oder so in ein paar Wochen hier wieder.\n\nSpeaker 1: Genau. Bis dann. Bis dahin. Moritz, vielen Dank in der Bar.\n\nSpeaker 2: Danke euch, mein Name. Viel Spaß gemacht.\n\nSpeaker 0: Tschau, bis bald und tschau tschau.",[55619,55626,55631,55643,55650,55659,55667,55672,55680,55693,55706,55719,55732,55745,55752,55765,55772,55779,55784,55792,55802,55814,55827,55840,55845,55856,55860,55867,55879,55891,55897,55909,55922,55929,55940,55953,55966,55976,55989,55997,56008,56016,56029,56042,56053,56061,56068,56081,56085,56090,56094,56099,56104,56116,56128,56132,56136,56143,56150,56154,56159,56167,56174,56179,56192,56205,56218,56231,56243,56253,56259,56269,56281,56291,56304,56315,56327,56339,56352,56364,56367,56371,56375,56387,56400,56410,56417,56429,56435,56439,56444,56455,56468,56481,56493,56498,56510,56522,56533,56545,56553,56565,56578,56589,56601,56614,56626,56637,56643,56652,56656,56669,56681,56685,56696,56702,56715,56727,56739,56751,56763,56775,56788,56800,56804,56816,56825,56837,56845,56858,56870,56883,56896,56905,56910,56913,56921,56926,56938,56942,56954,56966,56976,56986,56992,57002,57014,57025,57029,57033,57046,57051,57062,57066,57069,57076,57085,57097,57109,57119,57122,57135,57147,57151,57162,57174,57180,57191,57195,57207,57214,57223,57231,57236,57240,57246,57250,57262,57275,57287,57293,57303,57315,57325,57328,57341,57353,57363,57368,57376,57380,57384,57393,57403,57407,57411,57419,57426,57432,57438,57445,57458,57467,57479,57483,57495,57506,57517,57525,57535,57538,57550,57556,57564,57567,57576,57582,57593,57605,57609,57615,57624,57636,57645,57651,57655,57667,57678,57691,57703,57716,57720,57726,57738,57742,57746,57752,57757,57767,57775,57786,57798,57810,57822,57826,57837,57846,57857,57867,57878,57890,57898,57902,57912,57916,57920,57932,57944,57948,57958,57969,57976,57984,57997,58009,58016,58022,58034,58038,58041,58045,58049,58058,58062,58066,58072,58076,58080,58084,58092,58098,58102,58110,58114,58118,58121,58125,58129,58137,58144,58151,58154,58158,58165,58170,58174,58178,58182,58192,58202,58208,58214,58218,58222,58226,58238,58251,58264,58268,58277,58281,58289,58293,58299,58305,58309,58317,58321,58331,58341,58350,58356],{"sentences":55620,"speaker":149,"num_words":55625,"start":146,"end":287},[55621,55623],{"text":55622,"start":146,"end":199},"Hallo und herzlich willkommen zu einem neuen CTO Special in der Programmierbar.",{"text":55624,"start":204,"end":287},"Heute schon das, oh je, ich weiß jetzt gar nicht, ich hab gar nicht drauf, bevor Sechsunddreißigste oder so was.",32,{"sentences":55627,"speaker":128,"num_words":55630,"start":292,"end":310},[55628],{"text":55629,"start":292,"end":310},"Irgendwas in der Richtung vielleicht?",5,{"sentences":55632,"speaker":149,"num_words":55642,"start":315,"end":490},[55633,55635,55637,55638,55640],{"text":55634,"start":315,"end":367},"Ja, auf alle Fälle über 30 und unter 40 irgendwo dazwischen sind wir.",{"text":55636,"start":367,"end":406},"Das ist ja auch 'n gutes Alter immer, ne.",{"text":413,"start":406,"end":410},{"text":55639,"start":410,"end":435},"Fühl ich mich auch wohl mit.",{"text":55641,"start":440,"end":490},"Aber ich glaube, es grenzt so langsam an Verpackungsbetrug, was wir hier machen.",42,{"sentences":55644,"speaker":149,"num_words":55649,"start":490,"end":681},[55645,55647],{"text":55646,"start":490,"end":627},"Ich hab nämlich eben mal nachgeschaut, dass es wieder ein CTO Special mit jemandem zu Gast, der offiziell zumindest gar keinen CTO Titel hat und das schon zum, ich glaub, vierten Mal in Folge jetzt.",{"text":55648,"start":627,"end":681},"Also wir müssen uns 'n neues Naming überlegen, Fabi, für dieses Format.",47,{"sentences":55651,"speaker":128,"num_words":55658,"start":681,"end":740},[55652,55654,55656],{"text":55653,"start":681,"end":690},"Das C-Special.",{"text":55655,"start":694,"end":701},"Das CTO Special.",{"text":55657,"start":701,"end":740},"Das Irgendwas mit C beginnt, wo das auch hier, ja.",15,{"sentences":55660,"speaker":149,"num_words":55666,"start":744,"end":834},[55661,55662,55664],{"text":413,"start":744,"end":745},{"text":55663,"start":745,"end":797},"Oder wir haben heute zu Gast im Podcast bei uns den Moritz Buhl.",{"text":55665,"start":797,"end":834},"Hallo Moritz, schön, dass Du Zeit für uns hast.",23,{"sentences":55668,"speaker":842,"num_words":55671,"start":839,"end":867},[55669],{"text":55670,"start":839,"end":867},"Hi, schön, dass ich bei euch sein darf.",8,{"sentences":55673,"speaker":149,"num_words":55679,"start":872,"end":1200},[55674,55675,55677],{"text":876,"start":872,"end":873},{"text":55676,"start":873,"end":980},"Ich hoffe, Du fühlst dich nicht unter dem Wertverkauf, wenn wir jetzt gesagt haben, das ist gar kein echtes CTO Special, so war das überhaupt gar nicht gemeint.",{"text":55678,"start":984,"end":1200},"Wir sind ja immer froh und happy damit, wenn Leute mit uns reden, die son bisschen anderen Blickwinkel auf Software und Softwareentwicklung, das ganze Ökosystem haben, auf Produktentwicklung und freuen uns eigentlich immer, wenn Leute aus, wie Fabi grade gesagt hat, so, Sea Level Führungsebene, Leadership zu uns kommen und mit uns 'n bisschen quatschen.",84,{"sentences":55681,"speaker":842,"num_words":55692,"start":1204,"end":1464},[55682,55684,55686,55688,55690],{"text":55683,"start":1204,"end":1245},"Also ich fühl mich überhaupt nicht unter Wert verkauft, ganz im Gegenteil.",{"text":55685,"start":1245,"end":1300},"Ich Das t in dem CDO hat mir ja im Vorfeld eher Angst gemacht.",{"text":55687,"start":1300,"end":1387},"Insofern bin ich heilfroh, dass Du das auch direkt direkt so korrekt anmoderiert hast, nicht, dass die Erwartungshaltung hier eine Falsche ist.",{"text":55689,"start":1387,"end":1434},"Aber dafür kann ich glänzen mit der guten Zahl zwischen 30 und 40.",{"text":55691,"start":1438,"end":1464},"Das persönlich ganz gut zu meinem Alter auch.",69,{"sentences":55694,"speaker":149,"num_words":55705,"start":1469,"end":1737},[55695,55697,55699,55701,55703],{"text":55696,"start":1469,"end":1475},"Wunder, wunderbar.",{"text":55698,"start":1479,"end":1586},"Bevor wir über Leadership und und Firmen und alles sprechen, Moritz, erzähl uns doch mal, was hat so eigentlich dein Interesse an an Computer und und und Software geweckt?",{"text":55700,"start":1586,"end":1658},"Gab's da so diesen einen Moment, an den Du dich irgendwie zurückerinnern kannst, wo Du das pinpointen kannst?",{"text":55702,"start":1658,"end":1716},"Oder ist das was, was dich so ganz organisch anderweitig ergeben hat oder erst sehr spät?",{"text":55704,"start":1716,"end":1737},"Wie wie war das bei dir?",71,{"sentences":55707,"speaker":842,"num_words":55718,"start":1741,"end":1952},[55708,55710,55712,55714,55716],{"text":55709,"start":1741,"end":1778},"Ja, es ist mir insofern ein bisschen in die Wiege gelegt.",{"text":55711,"start":1783,"end":1857},"Tatsächlich sind wir etwas als Unternehmen, wir sind etwas, glaub ich, Besonderes, was es so häufig in Deutschland nicht gibt.",{"text":55713,"start":1857,"end":1875},"Wir sind ein Software Familienunternehmen.",{"text":55715,"start":1880,"end":1902},"Normalerweise gibt's entweder Familienunternehmen oder Softwareunternehmen.",{"text":55717,"start":1907,"end":1952},"Beides ist, glaub ich, recht selten und ich bin zweite Generation jetzt tatsächlich.",55,{"sentences":55720,"speaker":842,"num_words":55731,"start":1957,"end":2360},[55721,55723,55725,55727,55729],{"text":55722,"start":1957,"end":2076},"Mein Vater hat das Unternehmen gegründet und ich bin mittlerweile jetzt seit 2019 in der Geschäftsführung, auch seit einigen Jahren allein im Sinne von, dass mein Vater mittlerweile in Rente ist.",{"text":55724,"start":2079,"end":2114},"Und insofern bin ich mit dem Thema Software immer schon aufgewachsen.",{"text":55726,"start":2118,"end":2159},"Ich bin allerdings auch überhaupt kein Techy, aber war immer schon super softwarinteressiert.",{"text":55728,"start":2164,"end":2271},"Damals war das immer so, wir haben als wohl Dataservice, wir haben zum großen Teil von den Testberichten gelebt, die so in den ganzen PC Magazinen immer da waren.",{"text":55730,"start":2275,"end":2360},"Und dann gab's irgendwie gefühlt wöchentlich kamen immer so 2, 3 Hefte mit nach Hause, die mein Vater dann immer an mich weitergereicht hat.",108,{"sentences":55733,"speaker":842,"num_words":55744,"start":2360,"end":2614},[55734,55736,55738,55740,55742],{"text":55735,"start":2360,"end":2384},"Und ich hab die eigentlich alle verschlungen.",{"text":55737,"start":2388,"end":2410},"Und das waren so meine ersten Berührungspunkte.",{"text":55739,"start":2414,"end":2558},"Vielleicht nicht so sehr mit Programmieren, wie das wahrscheinlich bei vielen anderen, die hier im Podcast sind, der Fall ist, sondern sehr stark mit, was die Software eigentlich selbst angeht, was was UX angeht, was die Funktionalität selbst angeht.",{"text":55741,"start":2562,"end":2575},"Wie gewinnt man Testsieg?",{"text":55743,"start":2579,"end":2614},"Was passiert, wenn man doch mal leider nur Zweiter ist?",67,{"sentences":55746,"speaker":842,"num_words":55751,"start":2618,"end":2715},[55747,55749],{"text":55748,"start":2618,"end":2652},"Das waren eigentlich so die Themen, mit denen ich aufgewachsen bin.",{"text":55750,"start":2652,"end":2715},"Und deswegen war ich immer schon an der Software dran, aber wahrscheinlich 'n bisschen über einen ungewöhnlichen Weg.",29,{"sentences":55753,"speaker":149,"num_words":55764,"start":2719,"end":3029},[55754,55756,55758,55760,55762],{"text":55755,"start":2719,"end":2817},"Ich find das superspannend, weil Du's ja auch eben grade gesagt hast, ne, es gibt in Deutschland Softwarefirmen und so Familienbetrieb, aber irgendwie nicht so beides zusammen.",{"text":55757,"start":2817,"end":2917},"Ich glaube tatsächlich, Moritz Buhrl, Data ist die erste Firma, die wir hier oder ne, die erste Firma, über die wir hier so sprechen, die älter ist als wir.",{"text":55759,"start":2920,"end":2929},"Kann das sein?",{"text":55761,"start":2929,"end":3001},"Oder ich lehm mich mal weit ausm Headset, ich hab gar nicht auf Kopf, Fabi, was so dein Jahrgang ist.",{"text":55763,"start":3001,"end":3029},"Aber Buhrl ist auf alle Fälle älter als ich.",88,{"sentences":55766,"speaker":128,"num_words":55771,"start":3033,"end":3165},[55767,55769],{"text":55768,"start":3033,"end":3107},"Gut, dann demnächst auch älter als ich, weil ich bin jünger als Du, aber ob jetzt, wie alt alle anderen Firmen waren?",{"text":55770,"start":3107,"end":3165},"Du, ich kann dir in der Historie kann ich jetzt nicht so genau zurückblicken, aber Es",38,{"sentences":55773,"speaker":149,"num_words":55778,"start":3165,"end":3244},[55774,55776],{"text":55775,"start":3165,"end":3192},"gibt vielleicht so Otto und die Bahn.",{"text":55777,"start":3196,"end":3244},"So, das sind vielleicht so, aber die sind ja keine keine klassischen Softwarunternehmen, ne.",21,{"sentences":55780,"speaker":128,"num_words":55783,"start":3244,"end":3258},[55781],{"text":55782,"start":3244,"end":3258},"Die sind da ja",4,{"sentences":55785,"speaker":149,"num_words":55791,"start":3258,"end":3349},[55786,55788,55789],{"text":55787,"start":3258,"end":3323},"so, ich sag mal, reingestolpert, aber aber BUELL ist ja, also Softwareunternehmen von Anfang an eigentlich gewesen.",{"text":413,"start":3327,"end":3328},{"text":55790,"start":3328,"end":3349},"Und vielleicht hatten wir doch nicht.",24,{"sentences":55793,"speaker":128,"num_words":55679,"start":3353,"end":3649},[55794,55796,55798,55800],{"text":55795,"start":3353,"end":3369},"Das, ja, das definitiv nicht.",{"text":55797,"start":3369,"end":3438},"Aber vielleicht können wir ja, das haben wir, glaub ich, am Anfang jetzt auch gar nicht so ins Detail reingegangen.",{"text":55799,"start":3438,"end":3482},"Gut, dass wir schon mal verstanden haben, wie Du grundsätzlich zur Software kamst.",{"text":55801,"start":3482,"end":3649},"Aber vielleicht, Moritz, kannst Du noch mal 1, 2 Sätze für die da draußen, die den Bool dann doch kein Begriff sein sollte, erzählen, was genau Bool ist und was denn eure Software ist, die ihr die ihr hauptsächlich Entwickler, mit der ihr bekannt geworden seid.",{"sentences":55803,"speaker":842,"num_words":55705,"start":3649,"end":3920},[55804,55806,55808,55810,55812],{"text":55805,"start":3649,"end":3657},"Ja, genau.",{"text":55807,"start":3661,"end":3751},"Also im Vergleich zu Otto und der Deutschen Bahn sind wir wahrscheinlich doch eher nur Teenager, aber wir feiern als Unternehmen tatsächlich nächstes Jahr Vierzigjähriges.",{"text":55809,"start":3755,"end":3804},"Wir sind aber nicht immer, ich sag mal, ein ein klassisches Softwareunternehmen, Softwarehaus gewesen.",{"text":55811,"start":3804,"end":3868},"Tatsächlich haben wir am Anfang sehr auf Softwarevertrieb fokussiert, haben auch früher viel Microsoft Geschäft gehabt.",{"text":55813,"start":3868,"end":3920},"Das heißt, wir waren eigentlich der Microsoft Vertriebspartner für den ganzen Emir Raum gewesen.",{"sentences":55815,"speaker":842,"num_words":55826,"start":3923,"end":4242},[55816,55818,55820,55822,55824],{"text":55817,"start":3923,"end":3988},"Das heißt, wenn ihr irgendwie eine Windows CD euch besorgt habt inklusive Echtheitszertifikat, dann kam die über uns.",{"text":55819,"start":3992,"end":4042},"Insofern, wir waren jetzt anfangs zugegebenermaßen vor 40 Jahren auch nicht das reinrassige Softwareunternehmen.",{"text":55821,"start":4045,"end":4081},"Aber wenn Du so willst, waren wir immer irgendwo ja softwaregetrieben.",{"text":55823,"start":4085,"end":4203},"Und ja, was wir machen heute, was uns der Schwerpunkt ist, ist zum einen innerhalb der BULDATA Service sind wir wahrscheinlich am meisten bekannt für unsere für die Steuersoftware, die VISO Software Reihe.",{"text":55825,"start":4203,"end":4242},"Also VISO VISO Steuer, das sind wir auch Marktführer in Deutschland.",87,{"sentences":55828,"speaker":842,"num_words":55839,"start":4242,"end":4524},[55829,55831,55833,55835,55837],{"text":55830,"start":4242,"end":4296},"Das ist wahrscheinlich das diese Softwareanwendung von uns, die dem meisten am geläufigsten ist.",{"text":55832,"start":4299,"end":4344},"Da steckt auch noch 'n bisschen mehr dahinter, teilweise unter unter anderen Labels.",{"text":55834,"start":4344,"end":4403},"Also das heißt, wenn ihr irgendwo beim Discounter Steuersoftware kauft, dann kommt die auch von uns.",{"text":55836,"start":4408,"end":4489},"Daneben haben wir dann auch einiges weiter teilweise unter der Viso Reihe, teilweise unter eigenen Markennamen wie Bilbop, Finanzblick, einiges anderes.",{"text":55838,"start":4493,"end":4524},"Und dann sind wir tatsächlich auch noch mal eine Softwaregruppe.",74,{"sentences":55841,"speaker":842,"num_words":55844,"start":4528,"end":4645},[55842],{"text":55843,"start":4528,"end":4645},"Das heißt, wir haben verschiedene Tochterunternehmen, die im Bereich b-two-b-Software, also Software für größere Unternehmen, mittelständische Unternehmen in aller Regel, die so was wie Warenwirtschaftssysteme, CRM Systeme und so weiter machen.",31,{"sentences":55846,"speaker":149,"num_words":55855,"start":4648,"end":4922},[55847,55849,55851,55853],{"text":55848,"start":4648,"end":4711},"Ich wollt das eigentlich nicht ansprechen, aber weil Du eben die Microsoft Lizenzen erwähnt hast, Thorsten Moritz, ne.",{"text":55850,"start":4714,"end":4793},"Nach unserem ersten Gespräch hab ich so 'n bisschen überlegt, na, buhl, mit was über was kann man so mit denen reden im Podcast?",{"text":55852,"start":4797,"end":4876},"Und ich hab mich da an was erinnert, von dem ich nicht mehr genau weiß, ob es wahr ist, sondern ob ich mir das einbilde.",{"text":55854,"start":4880,"end":4922},"Aber hat Bool nicht auch die Microsoft CDs und DVDs tatsächlich hergestellt?",79,{"sentences":55857,"speaker":842,"num_words":55783,"start":4926,"end":4938},[55858],{"text":55859,"start":4926,"end":4938},"Also die Ja, genau.",{"sentences":55861,"speaker":149,"num_words":55866,"start":4941,"end":4982},[55862,55864],{"text":55863,"start":4941,"end":4961},"Die Speichermedien und so was alles?",{"text":55865,"start":4961,"end":4982},"Also habt ihr da so wirklich",12,{"sentences":55868,"speaker":842,"num_words":55839,"start":4985,"end":5250},[55869,55871,55873,55875,55877],{"text":55870,"start":4985,"end":5052},"Genau, also ist nicht nur Vertrieb in dem Sinne gewesen, ja, sondern wir haben tatsächlich die Datenträger selbst hergestellt.",{"text":55872,"start":5052,"end":5075},"Wir haben das gesamte Packaging gemacht.",{"text":55874,"start":5078,"end":5112},"Das heißt, wir haben alles selbst zusammengestellt und das dann vertrieben.",{"text":55876,"start":5112,"end":5136},"Microsoft hat eigentlich nur eine Sache gemacht.",{"text":55878,"start":5139,"end":5250},"Microsoft hat uns im Prinzip diese Echtheitszertifikate geliefert und wir haben den ganzen Rest gemacht vom Datenträger übers Handbuch bis zum Packaging und die dann eben vertrieben an die verschiedenen OEMs.",{"sentences":55880,"speaker":842,"num_words":55642,"start":5254,"end":5414},[55881,55883,55885,55887,55889],{"text":55882,"start":5254,"end":5273},"Und das waren sehr spannende Zeiten.",{"text":55884,"start":5273,"end":5310},"Das war damals diese diese Echtheitzertifikate, die waren Gold wert.",{"text":55886,"start":5310,"end":5329},"Da gab's auch mehrere Einbruchsversuche.",{"text":55888,"start":5333,"end":5392},"Wir haben damals sone Art Ford Nox gestaltet mit Iriserkennung und allem Drum und Dran.",{"text":55890,"start":5392,"end":5414},"Das das war schon wild teilweise.",{"sentences":55892,"speaker":149,"num_words":55718,"start":5418,"end":5614},[55893,55895],{"text":55894,"start":5418,"end":5517},"Hab mich da so ganz duster dran erinnert, aber das ist halt leider sehr, also Bool, Microsoft und CD zusammen zu googeln, ist halt einfach komplett unbrauchbar, ja.",{"text":55896,"start":5520,"end":5614},"Also da hab ich so ganz viele andere Treffer, aber ich konnte das nicht mehr nachvollziehen, ob das wirklich so war, aber coole Geschichte auf jeden Fall.",{"sentences":55898,"speaker":128,"num_words":55855,"start":5618,"end":5887},[55899,55901,55903,55905,55907],{"text":55900,"start":5618,"end":5715},"Normalerweise, wenn wir in den CTO Special sind, dem dem Termin, mit dem wir starten, das, was wir schon abgehakt haben, ist, wie so dein Bezug zu Technologie war.",{"text":55902,"start":5715,"end":5769},"Normalerweise ist dann ja jetzt erst mal so der persönliche Werdegang, den wir son bisschen durchgehen.",{"text":55904,"start":5769,"end":5825},"Aber dadurch, dass wir hier son Familienunternehmen haben, sind ja 2 Werdegänge, die eigentlich interessant sind.",{"text":55906,"start":5825,"end":5854},"So, das eine ist BUEL als Firma so.",{"text":55908,"start":5854,"end":5887},"Wie kam es denn überhaupt, dass ihr Software entwickelt habt?",{"sentences":55910,"speaker":128,"num_words":55921,"start":5887,"end":6328},[55911,55913,55915,55917,55919],{"text":55912,"start":5887,"end":5948},"Und dann natürlich in deiner Rolle, wo Du jetzt bist, wie wie sich das Ganze entwickelt hat.",{"text":55914,"start":5948,"end":6150},"Vielleicht, damit man so den Kontext hat, würd ich eigentlich ganz gerne diesmal hier mit so der Firmenhistorie son bisschen anfangen, zu verstehen, wie's denn überhaupt dazu kam, dass ihr dass ihr Software entwickelt und dann vielleicht eher 'n bisschen auf die persönliche Historie blicken, zumindest im Zeitstrahl fangen wir damit 'n bisschen weiter vorne an, so.",{"text":55916,"start":6150,"end":6216},"Und Du hast jetzt schon viel davon davon erzählt, aber vielleicht kannst Du probieren, mir 2 Dinge näherzubringen.",{"text":55918,"start":6220,"end":6313},"So das eine ist, wie ist es, also ich hab jetzt verstanden, ihr habt Microsoft vertrieben und auch die die DVDs mit Echtzeitzertifikanten, so was selbst hergestellt so.",{"text":55920,"start":6316,"end":6328},"War das der Anfang?",124,{"sentences":55923,"speaker":128,"num_words":55928,"start":6328,"end":6395},[55924,55926],{"text":55925,"start":6328,"end":6351},"Also wie wurde Bool denn überhaupt gegründet?",{"text":55927,"start":6351,"end":6395},"Und wie war der Wechsel von Vertrieb und auch Herstellung hin zu",19,{"sentences":55930,"speaker":842,"num_words":55839,"start":6398,"end":6682},[55931,55933,55935,55937,55939],{"text":55932,"start":6398,"end":6457},"Du auf ganz ursprünglich Druck schaust, war's sogar gab's sogar noch 'n paar Stufen davor.",{"text":55934,"start":6461,"end":6553},"Mein Vater ist gelernt, hat Drucker und tatsächlich, mein Opa hatte 'n Druckereiunternehmen und das war son bisschen der Background und so ist tatsächlich cool.",{"text":55936,"start":6557,"end":6585},"Auch gestartet ganz ursprünglich als als eine Druckerei.",{"text":55938,"start":6589,"end":6677},"Nur ich muss sagen, das ist schon so lange vor mir her, die Geschichten kenn ich auch nur noch selbst aus aus zweiter, dritter Hand.",{"text":413,"start":6681,"end":6682},{"sentences":55941,"speaker":842,"num_words":55952,"start":6682,"end":7137},[55942,55944,55946,55948,55950],{"text":55943,"start":6682,"end":6780},"Aber was wir dann tatsächlich waren und was das was dann auch die Brücke zu diesem Microsoft Geschäft ist, ist, dass wir eben sehr stark im im Softwarevetrieb waren.",{"text":55945,"start":6780,"end":6825},"Das heißt, wir haben eigentlich Softwarelizenzen oder Softwarelizenziert und die dann rausgebracht.",{"text":55947,"start":6829,"end":6860},"Das war dann früher vor allen Dingen im Handel.",{"text":55949,"start":6864,"end":6933},"Die haben wir dann eben unter durch die Kooperation mit mit Viso haben wir die dann unter der Viso Marke herausgebracht.",{"text":55951,"start":6937,"end":7137},"Und dann haben wir irgendwann angefangen und haben, der BWLer würde sagen Vertical Integration, sprich, wir haben angefangen, die Software selbst herzustellen, haben auch teilweise die Software und teilweise auch die Unternehmen dahinter, das waren in der Regel keine großen Unternehmen, die haben wir dann auch aufgekauft, weil wir gesagt haben, das ist für uns so wichtig.",128,{"sentences":55954,"speaker":842,"num_words":55965,"start":7137,"end":7307},[55955,55957,55959,55961,55963],{"text":55956,"start":7137,"end":7160},"Wir wollen hier nicht nur Vertrieb machen.",{"text":55958,"start":7163,"end":7183},"Wir wollen selbstverantwortlich sein für die Software.",{"text":55960,"start":7183,"end":7215},"Wir wollen die Software nach unseren eigenen Vorstellungen weiterentwickeln.",{"text":55962,"start":7219,"end":7253},"Wir wollen unseren Qualitätsanspruch eigentlich überall gleichermaßen durchsetzen können.",{"text":55964,"start":7253,"end":7307},"Und von da haben wir uns dann eben zum Softwarehaus selbst entwickelt, das, was wir heute sind.",49,{"sentences":55967,"speaker":149,"num_words":55855,"start":7311,"end":7589},[55968,55970,55972,55974],{"text":55969,"start":7311,"end":7334},"Weißt Du, wie das so angefangen hat?",{"text":55971,"start":7334,"end":7428},"Also weiß nicht, hat da das ZDF bei euch geklopft und sagt, hey, wir würden gerne Steuersoftware machen und wollt ihr das nicht mit uns zusammen machen?",{"text":55973,"start":7428,"end":7571},"Oder habt ihr beim ZDF angerufen und sagt, hey, wir hätten hier eine voll coole Idee, aber uns fehlt son bisschen Branding, wie wie, das ist ja eine sehr ungewöhnliche Partnerschaft auf den ersten Blick, son Softwarehaus und öffentlich rechtliche.",{"text":55975,"start":7575,"end":7589},"Wie wie kommen die zusammen?",{"sentences":55977,"speaker":842,"num_words":55988,"start":7593,"end":7936},[55978,55980,55982,55984,55986],{"text":55979,"start":7593,"end":7656},"Ja, das ist, wie das immer so ist, das ist, denk ich nicht, das ist nicht 100 Prozent planbar.",{"text":55981,"start":7656,"end":7685},"Da gibt's auch, das kannst Du wiederum googeln.",{"text":55983,"start":7685,"end":7723},"Die die Geschichte gibt's gibt's auch online, wie das passiert ist, ja.",{"text":55985,"start":7726,"end":7858},"Im Prinzip war's 'n ziemlich fehlgeschlagenes Event, wo dann aber am Ende wir beziehungsweise mein Vater und damals ein Vertreter vom ZDF zusammengekommen sind und ich sag mal, da saßen dann auch die richtigen Personen beim Tisch.",{"text":55987,"start":7858,"end":7936},"Da war auch beim beim ZDF, war eine Offenheit und auch eine gewisse Risikobereitschaft, muss man wahrscheinlich auch sagen, war dabei.",97,{"sentences":55990,"speaker":842,"num_words":55718,"start":7940,"end":8125},[55991,55993,55995],{"text":55992,"start":7940,"end":8030},"Und das hat sich, denke ich, für für beide Seiten dann dann sehr stark auch ausgezahlt und auch für die Viso Sendung, denke ich, sehr stark ausgezahlt.",{"text":55994,"start":8034,"end":8072},"Also das sind Themen, die kannst Du, glaub ich, nicht planen, ja.",{"text":55996,"start":8075,"end":8125},"Da müssen die richtigen Leute in der richtigen Situation zusammenkommen und dann kann das auch funktionieren.",{"sentences":55998,"speaker":149,"num_words":56007,"start":8129,"end":8355},[55999,56000,56002,56004,56005],{"text":413,"start":8129,"end":8130},{"text":56001,"start":8130,"end":8164},"Wie so oft, manchmal gehört 'n bisschen Zufall dazu.",{"text":56003,"start":8168,"end":8179},"Wie fast immer, ja.",{"text":8185,"start":8182,"end":8183},{"text":56006,"start":8187,"end":8355},"Son bisschen den den Schwenk zu schaffen zu zu dir und wir haben ja schon son bisschen gehört, dass Du dich schon immer eigentlich da dafür interessiert hast, aber war dir das auf soner persönlichen Ebene schon immer klar, dass das mal ist, was Du später auch irgendwie machen willst?",65,{"sentences":56009,"speaker":149,"num_words":56007,"start":8359,"end":8573},[56010,56012,56014],{"text":56011,"start":8359,"end":8427},"Also ich kenn ja, es gibt ja auch Menschen, grade in Familienbetrieben, die sagen, so aus aus Prinzip halt nicht, ne.",{"text":56013,"start":8427,"end":8552},"So, nur weil jetzt meine Eltern und meine Großeltern und das ja alles irgendwie gemacht haben, ich will irgendwie mein eigenes Ding machen und maximal weit weg und mit dem Thema gar nichts zu tun haben so.",{"text":56015,"start":8555,"end":8573},"Wie war wie war das für dich?",{"sentences":56017,"speaker":842,"num_words":56028,"start":8577,"end":8793},[56018,56020,56022,56024,56026],{"text":56019,"start":8577,"end":8594},"Also das hatte ich auch mal.",{"text":56021,"start":8594,"end":8632},"Da war ich allerdings 13 und das war reiner Protest gewesen.",{"text":56023,"start":8635,"end":8660},"Da darf ich Das war aber auch immer.",{"text":56025,"start":8664,"end":8738},"Sehr starke Waffe, wenn ich das mal meinen Eltern an den Kopf knalle, dass ich das ganz bestimmt nicht machen werde.",{"text":56027,"start":8742,"end":8793},"Na ja, also ich glaub, zum einen hat mein mein Vater diesen Bliff sehr schnell durchschaut.",62,{"sentences":56030,"speaker":842,"num_words":56041,"start":8797,"end":9227},[56031,56033,56035,56037,56039],{"text":56032,"start":8797,"end":8822},"Zum anderen war der da auch sehr entspannt.",{"text":56034,"start":8826,"end":8964},"Das war auch, wenn wir's jetzt mal kurz vor meine von der Seite meiner Eltern betrachten, die haben immer die haben immer schon gesagt, es ist kein Muss, wir sind nicht hier, eine Dynastie zu begründen oder so was, ja.",{"text":56036,"start":8967,"end":9023},"Ihr macht das, woran ihr woran ihr Freude habt und wofür ihr auch eine Begabung habt.",{"text":56038,"start":9027,"end":9098},"So, und ich sag mal von dieser Kursperiode mal abgesehen, war es in Wirklichkeit immer das, was ich gerne wollte.",{"text":56040,"start":9098,"end":9227},"Ich fand ich fand das Ganze mit T schon wahnsinnig spannend damals, als es noch vielleicht Software für auf CD war bis zu bis heute zu Cloud Mobile Anwendungen und jetzt KI als Riesenthema.",118,{"sentences":56043,"speaker":842,"num_words":56052,"start":9231,"end":9446},[56044,56046,56048,56050],{"text":56045,"start":9231,"end":9272},"Ich kann mir ganz ehrlich, ich kann mir keine spannendere Branche vorstellen.",{"text":56047,"start":9276,"end":9359},"Du bist immer so am Puls der Zeit, das macht, Du musst immer up to date bleiben, aber es macht einfach wahnsinnig viel Spaß.",{"text":56049,"start":9359,"end":9404},"Und mal ganz ehrlich, betriebswirtschaftlich, ich find's auch einfach spannender als Metallbau.",{"text":56051,"start":9408,"end":9446},"Oder was grade bei uns hier im Siegerland sehr, sehr üblich ist.",60,{"sentences":56054,"speaker":149,"num_words":56060,"start":9449,"end":9596},[56055,56056,56058],{"text":413,"start":9449,"end":9450},{"text":56057,"start":9450,"end":9479},"Ja, aber das das ist ja ist ja cool.",{"text":56059,"start":9479,"end":9596},"So, wenn das würde ich schon irgendwie immer klar, weil ich glaub, das ist auch was, was manche Leute dann son bisschen beneiden, vielleicht sich dann vielleicht erst son bisschen finden müssen in ihrem Karriereweg.",45,{"sentences":56062,"speaker":842,"num_words":56067,"start":9600,"end":9877},[56063,56065],{"text":56064,"start":9600,"end":9825},"Ja, ich muss ganz ehrlich sagen, ich bin wahnsinnig dankbar, dass ausgerechnet wir und unser Unternehmen in dieser Branche ist und nicht in irgend 'ner anderen, wo ich sagen würde nach 'n paar Jahren, ah, ich kann's auch nicht mehr sehen, ich kann's auch nicht mehr hören und ich hab auch keine Lust mehr drauf und ich bin jetzt vielleicht aus reinem Pflichtbewusstsein noch im Unternehmen.",{"text":56066,"start":9829,"end":9877},"Also ich bin bin heilfroh, dass es genau die Branche ist, die mich selbst auch fasziniert.",82,{"sentences":56069,"speaker":128,"num_words":56080,"start":9881,"end":10299},[56070,56072,56074,56076,56078],{"text":56071,"start":9881,"end":9887},"Ja, total.",{"text":56073,"start":9887,"end":10000},"Also ich muss auch sagen, ich war jahrelang auch VISO Nutzer und das war auch das erste Mal, ich benutz hab da direkt so irgendwie sone supercoole Software und das irgendwie ausdeutet.",{"text":56075,"start":10000,"end":10056},"Und ich war einfach beim ersten Mal benutzt, da ist auf jeden Fall irgendwie eine stimmige Software.",{"text":56077,"start":10056,"end":10155},"Und so, und wenn ich jetzt, also da würden mir sehr viel andere Familienunternehmen einfallen, bei der bei denen ich vom inhaltlichen Schwerpunkt weniger gerne arbeiten würde als als Buen.",{"text":56079,"start":10155,"end":10299},"Mein einziger Grund, warum ich nicht mehr bei VISA bin, ist, weil ich mich die Buchhaltung für meine Frau mache und da Lexoffice nutze und die, für die nur eine Smartsteuerintegration haben und ich deswegen von von VISO weg musste.",121,{"sentences":56082,"speaker":128,"num_words":842,"start":10299,"end":10307},[56083],{"text":56084,"start":10299,"end":10307},"Wenn ich",{"sentences":56086,"speaker":149,"num_words":56089,"start":10307,"end":10333},[56087],{"text":56088,"start":10307,"end":10333},"das jetzt dein Feature pitche, weil Du",7,{"sentences":56091,"speaker":128,"num_words":55783,"start":10337,"end":10349},[56092],{"text":56093,"start":10337,"end":10349},"Nein, das ist ja,",{"sentences":56095,"speaker":149,"num_words":56098,"start":10349,"end":10368},[56096],{"text":56097,"start":10349,"end":10368},"und Moritz schon mal da hast.",6,{"sentences":56100,"speaker":842,"num_words":56103,"start":10368,"end":10485},[56101],{"text":56102,"start":10368,"end":10485},"Da da sag ich jetzt mein Beileid, das tut mir sehr leid für dich, aber vielleicht schaffen wir ja auch noch für die Lexoffice Kunden irgendwann noch eine noch eine bessere Möglichkeit, ja.",33,{"sentences":56105,"speaker":128,"num_words":56115,"start":10488,"end":10734},[56106,56108,56110,56112,56114],{"text":56107,"start":10488,"end":10589},"Hat jetzt nix damit zu tun, dass wir dass wir mit dir darüber sprechen, aber zumindest diesem Steuerteil trauer ich schon hinterher, dass ich jetzt Smartsteuer dafür nutzen muss.",{"text":56109,"start":10589,"end":10666},"Also ich bin zufrieden mit dem mit Lexoffice als Produkt, aber dass ich mir das wiederum eingekauft hab, gefällt mir nicht daran.",{"text":56111,"start":10670,"end":10675},"Also ja.",{"text":56113,"start":10675,"end":10729},"Also wie gerne, genau, wenn ich nicht machen kann, dann nur für mich gerne diese Integration.",{"text":876,"start":10733,"end":10734},70,{"sentences":56117,"speaker":128,"num_words":56127,"start":10737,"end":11125},[56118,56120,56122,56124,56126],{"text":56119,"start":10737,"end":10867},"Aber lass uns doch die Reise, weil ich glaub, es gibt, also ich hab mir, ich hab so viele Fragen zu Bool und was grade eure Challenges sind und auch mit eurem Start-up, das ihr noch parallel gegründet habt.",{"text":56121,"start":10867,"end":10951},"Aber lasst doch gerne trotzdem noch die die Historie, damit wir das hier für in unserem Special komplett haben, gerne von dir dann noch mal durchgehen.",{"text":56123,"start":10954,"end":11022},"Weil was was war denn, also so nach Schule bis Einstieg bei Buhl, was waren noch so deine Zwischenstationen?",{"text":56125,"start":11026,"end":11120},"Weil ich hab zumindest gesehen, auch wenn's bei dir, glaub ich, nur 2 Monate waren, haben wir waren wir haben wir zeitgleich für die Deutsche Bank gearbeitet.",{"text":11127,"start":11120,"end":11125},112,{"sentences":56129,"speaker":149,"num_words":55630,"start":11125,"end":11145},[56130],{"text":56131,"start":11125,"end":11145},"Dass wir gleich aufgefallen wollen.",{"sentences":56133,"speaker":128,"num_words":842,"start":11145,"end":11155},[56134],{"text":56135,"start":11145,"end":11155},"Wahnsinn, wir",{"sentences":56137,"speaker":842,"num_words":56142,"start":11155,"end":11217},[56138,56140],{"text":56139,"start":11155,"end":11188},"haben zeitgleich für die Deutsche Bank Ja, ich muss zugeben.",{"text":56141,"start":11188,"end":11217},"Ich war ich war allerdings nur Praktikant da.",18,{"sentences":56144,"speaker":128,"num_words":55666,"start":11217,"end":11298},[56145,56147,56149],{"text":56146,"start":11217,"end":11261},"Du warst, ja, ich war zu der Zeit dualer Schüler nicht meine.",{"text":56148,"start":11261,"end":11288},"Ich hab gesehen, 2 11 war's bei dir.",{"text":55759,"start":11288,"end":11298},{"sentences":56151,"speaker":842,"num_words":55783,"start":11301,"end":11314},[56152],{"text":56153,"start":11301,"end":11314},"Das müsst ich nachgucken.",{"sentences":56155,"speaker":128,"num_words":56158,"start":11314,"end":11326},[56156],{"text":56157,"start":11314,"end":11326},"Also laut laut",3,{"sentences":56160,"speaker":842,"num_words":56142,"start":11330,"end":11395},[56161,56163,56165],{"text":56162,"start":11330,"end":11350},"Xing Aber warte, lass mich überlegen.",{"text":56164,"start":11350,"end":11375},"2 11 kommt könnte schon gut sein.",{"text":56166,"start":11375,"end":11395},"Kommt hin, 2 Ja, da",{"sentences":56168,"speaker":128,"num_words":56173,"start":11395,"end":11464},[56169,56171],{"text":56170,"start":11395,"end":11455},"war mein Beginn fürs duale Studium, weil ich glaub, wir waren also müssten da zeitgleich gewesen sein.",{"text":56172,"start":11455,"end":11464},"Ich war auch",20,{"sentences":56175,"speaker":149,"num_words":56178,"start":11467,"end":11505},[56176],{"text":56177,"start":11467,"end":11505},"Ist das ja der Meinung, der danach sagen muss, meinem Beileid?",11,{"sentences":56180,"speaker":842,"num_words":56191,"start":11509,"end":11700},[56181,56183,56185,56187,56189],{"text":56182,"start":11509,"end":11539},"Ich muss sagen, es war eine sehr spannende Zeit gewesen.",{"text":56184,"start":11539,"end":11588},"Allerdings war ich auch mit Inhouse Consulting in in 'nem sehr spannenden Bereich gewesen.",{"text":56186,"start":11591,"end":11662},"Aber ganz grundsätzlich, ich hab ich hab bei uns ganz normal Abi gemacht, hab dann auch 'n freiwilliges soziales Jahr gemacht.",{"text":56188,"start":11662,"end":11681},"Das heißt, ich hab damals verweigert.",{"text":56190,"start":11685,"end":11700},"Wir mussten ja noch theoretisch.",56,{"sentences":56193,"speaker":842,"num_words":56204,"start":11704,"end":12203},[56194,56196,56198,56200,56202],{"text":56195,"start":11704,"end":11809},"Hab als Deutschlehrer in China gearbeitet an der christlichen Universität und hab dann 'n Bachelor in in Deutschland und 'n Master, beides in 'ner Management BWL Richtung gemacht.",{"text":56197,"start":11812,"end":11906},"Hatte zum einen immer vor, auch währenddessen und danach auch erst mal woanders zu arbeiten, zumindest mal 'n begrenzten Zeitraum, auch einfach mal was anderes zu sehen.",{"text":56199,"start":11906,"end":11992},"Aber schon irgendwo mit dem Ziel, dann irgendwann mal zumindest zur BUELL wieder reinzukommen, wenn ich immer noch das Gefühl hatte, dass es passt.",{"text":56201,"start":11992,"end":12120},"Und wenn die mich auch da haben wollen und beides der Fall war, bin ich dann auch nach nach 1 Station bei bei bei Vodafone Vodafone Italien dann damals, dadurch, dass ich ja in Italien meinen Master gemacht hab.",{"text":56203,"start":12124,"end":12203},"Nach der Station bin ich dann auch wieder zurück ins Unternehmen oder überhaupt mal erst hin ins Unternehmen, wobei ich nie so ganz weg war.",143,{"sentences":56206,"speaker":842,"num_words":56217,"start":12203,"end":12634},[56207,56209,56211,56213,56215],{"text":56208,"start":12203,"end":12301},"Ich war tatsächlich immer son bisschen das da im Familienunternehmen im Sinne von, ich hab damals gab's das noch, bin ich mit 6 Jahren noch aufm Lkw bei uns mitgefahren.",{"text":56210,"start":12301,"end":12442},"Dadurch, dass wir eben noch viel Material, physische Produkte und Warenwirtschaft zu dem Zeitpunkt hatten, hatten wir auch noch Lkws und Fließbänder und solche Sachen, wo eben die ganzen Handbücher und das ganze Packaging und so weiter stattfand.",{"text":56212,"start":12446,"end":12506},"Dann hab ich illegalerweise schon irgendwie im Alter von bis 10 Jahren oder so gab's Heimarbeit damals.",{"text":56214,"start":12506,"end":12584},"Das heißt, Du konntest dir irgendwie so die verschiedenen Packages, Bestandteile nach Hause liefern lassen und die konntest Du dann zusammenstecken.",{"text":56216,"start":12588,"end":12634},"Das hab ich dann gemacht und dann hat mir meine Mutter entsprechend was zugesteckt.",120,{"sentences":56219,"speaker":842,"num_words":56230,"start":12638,"end":12964},[56220,56222,56224,56226,56228],{"text":56221,"start":12638,"end":12742},"Und dann hab ich irgendwann genauso illegal mit 13, glaub ich, angefangen, bei uns in im Servicecenter zu arbeiten am Telefon und mit 15 dann in der in der technischen Nordline.",{"text":56223,"start":12746,"end":12777},"Also das heißt, so ganz weg war ich eigentlich nie gewesen.",{"text":56225,"start":12780,"end":12867},"Und bin dann 2014 nach der Vodafone Station bin ich dann in ein Tochterunternehmen bei uns eingestiegen in der Schweiz, wo ich 3 Jahre war.",{"text":56227,"start":12870,"end":12932},"Und dann 2017 bin ich zu uns, zu nach Neukirchen gekommen, da wo wir sitzen an unseren Firmensitz.",{"text":56229,"start":12936,"end":12964},"Und hab dann als Erstes Invoice mit aufgebaut.",93,{"sentences":56232,"speaker":842,"num_words":56007,"start":12968,"end":13203},[56233,56235,56237,56239,56241],{"text":56234,"start":12968,"end":12997},"'N Invoicing Produkt, wie der Name schon sagt.",{"text":56236,"start":13001,"end":13045},"Und dann ab 2019 war ich in der Geschäftszeitung und ab wann war's?",{"text":56238,"start":13045,"end":13059},"Ende 20 21?",{"text":56240,"start":13064,"end":13080},"Nee, nee, nee, war früher.",{"text":56242,"start":13084,"end":13203},"Jetzt hab ich grad nicht mehr aufm Schirm, aber ist seit einigen Jahren dann auch alleine im Sinne von, dass mein Vater draußen ist, allerdings nicht alleine in der Geschäftsführung und sowieso nicht alleine im Leiterkreis.",{"sentences":56244,"speaker":149,"num_words":56252,"start":13207,"end":13354},[56245,56247,56248,56250],{"text":56246,"start":13207,"end":13232},"Ich hab noch eine Frage zu deinem Studium.",{"text":413,"start":13236,"end":13237},{"text":56249,"start":13237,"end":13320},"Und Du hast ja gesagt, das war für dich eigentlich schon immer klar oder Du wolltest das gerne, dass Du dann zu Buhrl eben auch gehst.",{"text":56251,"start":13324,"end":13354},"Das hätte ja auf 3 verschiedene Studien eigentlich rauslaufen",44,{"sentences":56254,"speaker":842,"num_words":55866,"start":13357,"end":13394},[56255,56257],{"text":56256,"start":13357,"end":13363},"können, ne.",{"text":56258,"start":13363,"end":13394},"Du hättest entweder was so hart mit mit Software machen",{"sentences":56260,"speaker":149,"num_words":56007,"start":13394,"end":13617},[56261,56263,56265,56267],{"text":56262,"start":13394,"end":13512},"können, klassische Software Engineering, Du hättest was mit Managern machen können, wie Du gemacht hast, oder Du hättest ja auch was in Richtung Text und Legal machen können, einfach so Domainwissen aufzubauen, ne.",{"text":56264,"start":13512,"end":13541},"Wie sah so dieser Entscheidungsprozess für dich aus?",{"text":56266,"start":13541,"end":13565},"Oder war das überhaupt gar keine Entscheidung?",{"text":56268,"start":13565,"end":13617},"Und das war schon immer für dich klar, dass Du das irgendwie in der Richtung machen willst.",{"sentences":56270,"speaker":842,"num_words":56060,"start":13621,"end":13778},[56271,56273,56275,56277,56279],{"text":56272,"start":13621,"end":13648},"Also faktisch war es immer schon für mich klar.",{"text":56274,"start":13652,"end":13672},"Ich überlege gerade, woher kommt es?",{"text":56276,"start":13672,"end":13712},"Also zum einen auf die Gefahr hin, mich unbeliebt zu machen.",{"text":56278,"start":13712,"end":13741},"Ich hab gerne diese BWL im Managementrichtung studiert.",{"text":56280,"start":13745,"end":13778},"Ich hatte Spaß an der, hat mich hat mich immer gefolgt.",{"sentences":56282,"speaker":842,"num_words":55988,"start":13782,"end":14112},[56283,56285,56287,56289],{"text":56284,"start":13782,"end":13826},"Zum anderen war es auch so, ich bin da 'n bisschen von zu Hause vorgeprägt.",{"text":56286,"start":13830,"end":13889},"Wie gesagt, mein Vater ist gelernter Drucker, der kann auch keine Zeile programmieren, genauso wenig wie ich, ja.",{"text":56288,"start":13889,"end":13970},"Ich hab, glaube ich, 'n ganz gutes Verständnis, grade für UX Themen, aber Code 0 Zero hatte ich auch nie wirklich Bezug zu.",{"text":56290,"start":13970,"end":14112},"Dann den Text, die Text, Lidl Themen klar, hätte man machen können, aber am Ende hatte ich das Gefühl, dass mich auch im BWL Studium, ich sag mal, für für diese gesamtverantwortliche Rolle doch wahrscheinlich besser vorbereitet als eine fachliche Richtung.",{"sentences":56292,"speaker":128,"num_words":56303,"start":14116,"end":14336},[56293,56295,56297,56299,56301],{"text":56294,"start":14116,"end":14160},"Vielleicht, mich würd mal interessieren, wie sieht son denn jetzt grade heute aus?",{"text":56296,"start":14160,"end":14209},"Du hast immer mal son paar Eindrücke aus deiner frühen Jugend irgendwie geteilt so.",{"text":56298,"start":14209,"end":14230},"Ich hab jetzt grad verstanden, irgendwie LKWs.",{"text":56300,"start":14234,"end":14290},"Du hast von Ford Nox erzählt, dass man da mit Iris Scanner irgendwie nicht reinkam und so.",{"text":56302,"start":14290,"end":14336},"Und irgendwie alles war sehr hardwaregetrieben, dann hin den Switch zu Software so.",64,{"sentences":56305,"speaker":128,"num_words":56314,"start":14339,"end":14558},[56306,56308,56310,56312],{"text":56307,"start":14339,"end":14431},"Wie, wenn wir jetzt bei euch im Headquarter sind, so wie viel, ich werd überhaupt gar keinen keinen Empfinden dafür, wie wie viel ist denn überhaupt noch?",{"text":56309,"start":14431,"end":14470},"Verkauft ihr irgendeine Form von physischen Datenträgern aktuell grade noch?",{"text":56311,"start":14470,"end":14481},"Ist alles digital so?",{"text":56313,"start":14481,"end":14558},"Wie viel von Also was ist ein Bool heute im Vergleich zu dem Ford Knox Iris Scanner von vor 25, 20 Jahren?",63,{"sentences":56316,"speaker":842,"num_words":56326,"start":14562,"end":14802},[56317,56318,56320,56322,56324],{"text":413,"start":14562,"end":14563},{"text":56319,"start":14567,"end":14612},"Tatsächlich, das das eine hat fast nichts mehr mit dem anderen zu tun, deswegen.",{"text":56321,"start":14612,"end":14673},"Ich hab eben schon gedacht, als ich's erzählt hab, oh, hoffentlich kommen hier keine falschen Bilder rüber.",{"text":56323,"start":14677,"end":14734},"Wenn Du dir heute eigentlich eine eine gute Gesamtheit nicht anguckst, dann hast Du 3 große Bereiche.",{"text":56325,"start":14738,"end":14802},"Der eine Bereich ist natürlich Softwareentwicklung und da ist voller Fokus Web, App und mittlerweile auch AI.",66,{"sentences":56328,"speaker":842,"num_words":55855,"start":14806,"end":15092},[56329,56331,56333,56335,56337],{"text":56330,"start":14806,"end":14904},"Da auch mal 'n Eindruck zu geben, wir haben jetzt zu Hochphasen, wir haben ja jetzt grade vor 'n paar Tagen haben wir ja Steuerdeadline für dieses Jahr gehabt.",{"text":56332,"start":14907,"end":14970},"Es sind genau 7 Prozent, die noch eine zu installierende On Brand Version als Neukunde kaufen.",{"text":56334,"start":14970,"end":14990},"Der Rest ist Web und App.",{"text":56336,"start":14994,"end":15067},"So dementsprechend ist das unser normales Daily Business geworden und das, an dem wir arbeiten und das, wie wir auch denken.",{"text":56338,"start":15071,"end":15092},"Softwareentwicklung ist insofern der eine große Teil.",{"sentences":56340,"speaker":842,"num_words":56351,"start":15096,"end":15288},[56341,56343,56345,56347,56349],{"text":56342,"start":15096,"end":15131},"Der ist aber nur teilweise hier in Neukirchen, gerade für die Steuersoftware.",{"text":56344,"start":15135,"end":15162},"Haben wir Entwicklungsstandort in Mannheim und Hannover.",{"text":56346,"start":15166,"end":15216},"Andere wie zum Beispiel eben 'n oder 'n Finanzblick, die werden hier entwickelt in Neukirchen.",{"text":56348,"start":15220,"end":15267},"Der zweite große Bereich ist das Thema IT und vor allen Dingen dort Rechenzentren.",{"text":56350,"start":15271,"end":15288},"Wir betreiben ja unsere eigenen Rechenzentren.",54,{"sentences":56353,"speaker":842,"num_words":55988,"start":15291,"end":15640},[56354,56356,56358,56360,56362],{"text":56355,"start":15291,"end":15310},"Das ist natürlich kein ganz kleines Unterfangen.",{"text":56357,"start":15314,"end":15475},"Das Wilde ist, wir haben's jetzt genau zur Deadline auch noch mal gehabt, wir müssen eigentlich die Rechenzentren auf diesen einen verrückten Tag dieses Jahr, einunddreißigster Achter 20 25 müssen wir auslegen, wo wir irgendwie das Zwanzigfache an Last haben als an 'nem normalen Tag.",{"text":56359,"start":15479,"end":15507},"Dafür muss die ganze Infrastruktur stehen und funktionieren.",{"text":56361,"start":15510,"end":15575},"Und das ist natürlich 'n ultrawichtiger Bereich für uns, weil's einfach auch 'n essenzieller Teil unseres unseres Werbeversprechens ist.",{"text":56363,"start":15578,"end":15640},"So und der dritte Teil ist Marketing und Vertrieb, vor allen Dingen damit dann Onlinemarketing, wo natürlich auch",{"sentences":56365,"speaker":128,"num_words":128,"start":15640,"end":15643},[56366],{"text":386,"start":15640,"end":15643},{"sentences":56368,"speaker":842,"num_words":56098,"start":15643,"end":15668},[56369],{"text":56370,"start":15643,"end":15668},"großer Teil des Budgets auch hingeht.",{"sentences":56372,"speaker":128,"num_words":55791,"start":15672,"end":15757},[56373],{"text":56374,"start":15672,"end":15757},"Diese On Preme Lösung ist aber, also wie, das ist ja wahrscheinlich trotzdem nicht verschickt, physische Datenpräg oder so was, das wahrscheinlich 'n, also",{"sentences":56376,"speaker":842,"num_words":55718,"start":15760,"end":15946},[56377,56379,56381,56383,56385],{"text":56378,"start":15760,"end":15769},"Gibt es noch?",{"text":56380,"start":15772,"end":15792},"Ist aber ist aber tatsächlich die Ausnahme.",{"text":56382,"start":15792,"end":15809},"Also es gab 2 Punkte.",{"text":56384,"start":15809,"end":15854},"Das eine ist der Handel, wo wir auch immer noch 'n bisschen was machen.",{"text":56386,"start":15857,"end":15946},"Die haben logischerweise noch physische Themen, aber auch 'n Amazon stellt jetzt komplett auf digitale- und Download Versionen was auch da schon sowieso das meiste ist.",{"sentences":56388,"speaker":842,"num_words":56399,"start":15949,"end":16206},[56389,56391,56393,56395,56397],{"text":56390,"start":15949,"end":15976},"Web und App ist dann natürlich 'n bisschen schwieriger.",{"text":56392,"start":15980,"end":16028},"Und dann ist es so, wir haben eben auch noch einen Haufen Bestandskunden da draußen.",{"text":56394,"start":16032,"end":16177},"Und manchmal tut's mir 'n bisschen selber weh, aber dann sehe ich, dann bin ich bei Leuten am Laptop zu Hause und dann sehe ich irgendwie, Viso Steuer ist noch die letzte installierte Software, die die haben und ich frag sie, warum.",{"text":56396,"start":16181,"end":16200},"Ja, ich hab's seit 15 Jahren so.",{"text":56398,"start":16200,"end":16206},"Ja, gut.",75,{"sentences":56401,"speaker":842,"num_words":56399,"start":16210,"end":16478},[56402,56404,56406,56408],{"text":56403,"start":16210,"end":16243},"Das heißt, es gibt auch noch eine Diskrepanz zwischen Neukunden.",{"text":56405,"start":16248,"end":16366},"Welche welche Kanäle und welche Devices wählt wählt ein Neukunde versus die Bestandskunden, die vielleicht ja eben aus alter Routine dann auch immer noch installieren, auch wenn sie keinen physischen Datenträger mehr nehmen.",{"text":56407,"start":16370,"end":16429},"Und die Maschinen zum Erstellen der Datenträger und das ganze, die gibt's in der Tat nicht mehr.",{"text":56409,"start":16429,"end":16478},"Also das Bisschen, was wir noch machen, machen wir in der Regel nicht mehr selbst.",{"sentences":56411,"speaker":149,"num_words":56416,"start":16481,"end":16575},[56412,56414],{"text":56413,"start":16481,"end":16532},"Kannst Du uns das son bisschen noch von der Größe her einordnen, diese 3 Säulen?",{"text":56415,"start":16532,"end":16575},"Wie viele Mitarbeiter habt ihr so insgesamt und wie verteilen die sich?",27,{"sentences":56418,"speaker":842,"num_words":56067,"start":16579,"end":16875},[56419,56421,56423,56425,56427],{"text":56420,"start":16579,"end":16606},"Ja, ich hab eben noch Ganz ganz cool.",{"text":56422,"start":16610,"end":16679},"Mitarbeiterzahl angeht, grob noch einen großen Bereich wiederschlagen und das ist der Bereich Service und Support, der kommt noch mit dazu.",{"text":56424,"start":16682,"end":16698},"Insofern, das ist eine große Säule.",{"text":56426,"start":16702,"end":16792},"Die Softwareentwicklung ist eine große Säule, was personaltechnisch angeht und dann die Bereiche Rechenzentren und Marketing, die sind kleiner, was eine Anzahl an Personen angeht.",{"text":56428,"start":16796,"end":16875},"Budgetverteilung sieht allerdings 'n bisschen anders aus Als Reinemull Data Service ohne die Tochterunternehmen kommen wir, statt mich tot, vielleicht so auf.",{"sentences":56430,"speaker":842,"num_words":55928,"start":16879,"end":16945},[56431,56433],{"text":56432,"start":16879,"end":16924},"Lass mich nicht lügen, 500 Leute so was den Dreh müssen es sein.",{"text":56434,"start":16927,"end":16945},"So, und das sind aber Das",{"sentences":56436,"speaker":149,"num_words":56098,"start":16945,"end":16967},[56437],{"text":56438,"start":16945,"end":16967},"ist ja schon wieder eine Größenordnung.",{"sentences":56440,"speaker":842,"num_words":55866,"start":16971,"end":17011},[56441,56442],{"text":16975,"start":16971,"end":16972},{"text":56443,"start":16972,"end":17011},"Und als ganze Gruppe sind wir, glaub ich, knapp unter 1000.",{"sentences":56445,"speaker":128,"num_words":56454,"start":17015,"end":17320},[56446,56448,56450,56452],{"text":56447,"start":17015,"end":17097},"Und als, weil Du grade Beispiel, einunddreißigster Achter und zwanzigfache Last so, son bisschen, ein 1 der ersten Takea Themen son bisschen zu schneiden.",{"text":56449,"start":17101,"end":17112},"Wie wie ist denn?",{"text":56451,"start":17112,"end":17261},"Heißt das, ihr haltet die ganze Zeit Server für diesen Tag vor oder wie wie Rechenzentren bisher noch wenig, also noch kein eigenes aufgebaut, bisher noch bei keiner Firma gearbeitet, die ihre eigenen Rechenzentren betreiben musste oder es nicht hat von jemand anderem betreiben lassen?",{"text":56453,"start":17261,"end":17320},"Wie also wie stellt ihr sicher, dass ihr zwanzigfache Kapazität habt in an diesem einunddreißigsten Achten?",89,{"sentences":56456,"speaker":842,"num_words":56467,"start":17324,"end":17590},[56457,56459,56461,56463,56465],{"text":56458,"start":17324,"end":17359},"Ja, also die Infrastruktur ist prinzipiell alles da, ist alles vorhanden.",{"text":56460,"start":17359,"end":17400},"Also wir mieten jetzt auch nichts irgendwie für 'n Tag noch mal dazu.",{"text":56462,"start":17403,"end":17470},"Wir haben, wenn Du so willst, noch mal 'n paar Back up Lösungen, wenn alles in die Winzen gehen würde.",{"text":56464,"start":17474,"end":17556},"Aber ja, wir halten tatsächlich alles vor und das sind natürlich ist 'n Saisonverlauf und 'n Saisonhöhepunkt, den wir natürlich auch lang voraus planen.",{"text":56466,"start":17560,"end":17590},"Und da muss man auch tatsächlich immer son bisschen gucken.",78,{"sentences":56469,"speaker":842,"num_words":56480,"start":17590,"end":17795},[56470,56472,56474,56476,56478],{"text":56471,"start":17590,"end":17633},"Es spielt eine Rolle, an was fürn Tag ist der einunddreißigste Achte?",{"text":56473,"start":17637,"end":17684},"Die letzten Jahre war's anders, da war's dann irgendwie der zweite des Folgemonats oder so.",{"text":56475,"start":17684,"end":17696},"Ist das 'n Wochentag?",{"text":56477,"start":17700,"end":17716},"Ist der am Wochenende so?",{"text":56479,"start":17720,"end":17795},"Sonntag oder Samstag, wenn es Samstagnacht wäre, dann dann wär's wahrscheinlich noch mal schärfer, als wenn es unter der Woche ist.",57,{"sentences":56482,"speaker":842,"num_words":56492,"start":17798,"end":17960},[56483,56484,56486,56488,56490],{"text":413,"start":17798,"end":17799},{"text":56485,"start":17799,"end":17848},"Und wir sehen dann wirklich, wie die Zahlen immer höher und höher und höher gehen.",{"text":56487,"start":17848,"end":17883},"Zum Abend hin wird es mehr und mehr und mehr.",{"text":56489,"start":17883,"end":17918},"Und dann hast Du so den Peak so 20 Uhr.",{"text":56491,"start":17918,"end":17960},"Und dann hast Du noch mal son Peak 23 Uhr 59 tatsächlich.",48,{"sentences":56494,"speaker":842,"num_words":56497,"start":17963,"end":17994},[56495],{"text":56496,"start":17963,"end":17994},"Aber ja, prinzipiell halten wir alles dafür vor und bereit.",10,{"sentences":56499,"speaker":149,"num_words":56230,"start":17998,"end":18330},[56500,56502,56504,56506,56508],{"text":56501,"start":17998,"end":18062},"Du hast ja gesagt, ihr betreibt euer eigenes Rechenzentrum, weil das auch so Teil von eurer Außenkommunikation ist.",{"text":56503,"start":18065,"end":18077},"Ist das die Hauptmotivation?",{"text":56505,"start":18081,"end":18174},"Ich hab auch schon in Projekten Firmen gearbeitet, die ihre eigenen Rechenzentren betreiben mussten, weil sie so Sicherheitsanforderungen an, also tatsächlich physische Sicherheitsanforderungen, ne, an das Rechenzentrum.",{"text":56507,"start":18174,"end":18239},"Das muss besonders zugangsgeschützt und so was alles sein, weil da halt sehr sensible Daten rumliegen und so.",{"text":56509,"start":18239,"end":18330},"Ist ist das eure Motivation oder ist das eher dieses, hey, wenn ihr mit BUEL arbeitet, liegen eure Daten in Deutschland sicher bei uns, kommunikativer Aspekt?",{"sentences":56511,"speaker":842,"num_words":55744,"start":18334,"end":18569},[56512,56514,56516,56518,56520],{"text":56513,"start":18334,"end":18363},"Es ist der, es ist eine Kombination aus beidem.",{"text":56515,"start":18367,"end":18431},"Weil die Daten so sensibel sind, ja, es, ich mein, es sind die, es sind Steuerdaten, es sind Buchhaltungsdaten.",{"text":56517,"start":18435,"end":18483},"Ich glaube, als Privatperson oder als Selbstständiger in Deutschland kannst Du nichts Sensibleres haben.",{"text":56519,"start":18483,"end":18537},"Weil die Daten so sensibel sind, fühlen wir, dass wir dieses Werteversprechen abgeben müssen, ja.",{"text":56521,"start":18537,"end":18569},"Dass es so sein muss, dass es Teil dessen ist.",{"sentences":56523,"speaker":842,"num_words":56252,"start":18573,"end":18736},[56524,56526,56528,56529,56531],{"text":56525,"start":18573,"end":18595},"Gleichzeitig Aber es ist rechtlich treueben.",{"text":56527,"start":18599,"end":18648},"Na ja, wir sind auch BaFin lizenziert, damit kommt dann auch noch mal So was.",{"text":18655,"start":18651,"end":18652},{"text":56530,"start":18652,"end":18700},"Das heißt, wenn auch Bankkonten abrufen und und Transaktionen auslösen im Onlinebanking.",{"text":56532,"start":18704,"end":18736},"Das macht es uns natürlich auch noch mal deutlich leichter.",{"sentences":56534,"speaker":842,"num_words":56041,"start":18740,"end":19142},[56535,56537,56539,56541,56543],{"text":56536,"start":18740,"end":18860},"Aber das ist auch natürlich im Moment 'n Punkt an uns jetzt gerade, wenn wir wenn wir am Anfang 1 KI Zeitalters stehen, müssen wir gucken, okay, an welchen Stellen ist das absolut noch sinnvoll?",{"text":56538,"start":18864,"end":18968},"Gibt es aber auch vielleicht Stellen, wo wir sagen, okay, wir beschneiden nicht bei uns, aber wir beschneiden den Kundennutzen extrem, wenn wir sagen, wir bleiben die ganze Zeit on bram, ja.",{"text":56540,"start":18968,"end":19037},"Ich mein auch unsere KI Infrastruktur und wir sind auch grade mitten im Aufbau, die können wir prinzipiell schon lokal betreiben.",{"text":56542,"start":19041,"end":19108},"Aber es gibt natürlich immer wieder Szenarien, Anwendungen, wo's absolut Sinn macht, wenn Du nach wenn Du nach außen gehst.",{"text":56544,"start":19111,"end":19142},"Das ist einmal natürlich die Frage, wo machst Du das?",{"sentences":56546,"speaker":842,"num_words":56552,"start":19142,"end":19261},[56547,56549,56551],{"text":56548,"start":19142,"end":19225},"Und dann ist natürlich auch die Frage, wie machst Du das, ohne dass dass trotzdem eine sensible Daten sind, die die nach außen gehen, ja?",{"text":56550,"start":19225,"end":19257},"Und ich sag mal, das ist eine ongoing Diskussion.",{"text":497,"start":19257,"end":19261},35,{"sentences":56554,"speaker":128,"num_words":55988,"start":19265,"end":19587},[56555,56557,56559,56561,56563],{"text":56556,"start":19265,"end":19363},"spring vielleicht wieder son bisschen zurück, aber weil die also im Zeitstrahler, weil mich die Frage son bisschen interessiert aus der heutigen Zeit, so wie wie ihr eigentlich die Software entwickelt?",{"text":56558,"start":19363,"end":19377},"Wie seid ihr aufgestellt?",{"text":56560,"start":19377,"end":19400},"So, in welcher Art entwickelt ihr so?",{"text":56562,"start":19400,"end":19440},"Und in dem Zuge kommt mir noch eine Frage son bisschen vorher.",{"text":56564,"start":19440,"end":19587},"Und zwar, ich mein, wir, ihr und ich arbeiten beide in ein Unternehmen, das Software entwickelt und wissen selbst, welche Challenges daherkommen, wenn man Software entwickelt und die Art und Weise, wie man das tut und welche Technologien man entscheiden und so was.",{"sentences":56566,"speaker":128,"num_words":56577,"start":19587,"end":20172},[56567,56569,56571,56573,56575],{"text":56568,"start":19587,"end":19651},"Da kann man auch viele Fehler machen und auch durchaus so was den Erfolg des Unternehmens irgendwie beeinflussen.",{"text":56570,"start":19651,"end":19799},"Und ich stell mir's grundsätzlich schwierig vor, jetzt so wenn ich mir in der Stelle mal 'n bisschen zurückspule, dein dein Papa kommt irgendwie, ist gelernter Drucker und entscheidet dann irgendwann, okay, die die Software wollen wir jetzt irgendwie selbst weiterentwickeln und so.",{"text":56572,"start":19799,"end":19969},"Und hab, die Seite ja jetzt echt 40 Jahre später an 'nem Date, wo man wirklich sagen kann, wie gesagt, es war auch vorhin wirklich ernst gemeint, sowieso als Software eine, die wirklich super gut funktioniert, ihr es hinbekommen hat, gut das Ganze zu skalieren, superviele Produkte parallel macht und so.",{"text":56574,"start":19969,"end":20077},"Und ich frag mich, weiß nicht, ob Du da Geschichten aus der Historie son bisschen kennst, so, welche Entscheidung glaubst Du, hat dein Papa da in der Vergangenheit vielleicht auch irgendwie gut getroffen?",{"text":56576,"start":20077,"end":20172},"Hat er die richtigen Leute eingestellt, die im Endeffekt so was mit ihm zusammen den Softwareteil aufbauen, weil so komplett softwarefremd, ein Softwareunternehmen zu führen.",170,{"sentences":56579,"speaker":128,"num_words":56588,"start":20172,"end":20628},[56580,56582,56584,56586],{"text":56581,"start":20172,"end":20283},"Ich kann mir vorstellen, dass man, dass auch viele andere da durchaus Entscheidungen hätten treffen können, die heute ein vielleicht kein Unternehmen hervorgerufen werden, dass es seit 40 Jahren gibt und so erfolgreich ist.",{"text":56583,"start":20286,"end":20308},"Es ist sehr weit gefasst diese Frage.",{"text":56585,"start":20308,"end":20555},"Vielleicht irgend so was, wie hast Du's Gefühl, ist es so, gab's da irgendwie auch bestimmte Entscheidungen, wo dann die dann Papa drauf zurück sind, hat er von vornherein irgendwie die richtigen Leute eingestellt, hat er schon seit Ewigkeiten irgendwie einen CT, wenn wir's jetzt mal Titel wieder nehmen, einen CTO beiseite, der irgendwie ihm da viel von abgenommen hat, sodass er das das gar nicht sein Hauptaugenmerk sein musste, sondern produktfokussierter sein musste.",{"text":56587,"start":20558,"end":20628},"So wie, vielleicht ein bisschen aus der Historie und dann gerne erzählt mit, wie arbeitet ihr denn heute, wie entwickelt ihr heute Software?",138,{"sentences":56590,"speaker":842,"num_words":55679,"start":20632,"end":20906},[56591,56593,56595,56597,56599],{"text":56592,"start":20632,"end":20668},"Ja, also erst mal, wir haben auch eine Menge grober Fehler gemacht.",{"text":56594,"start":20671,"end":20749},"Das ist definitiv so und unter einigen dieser Fehler und leiden wir auch bis heute noch, auch eben technologische Fehlentscheidungen gehören auch mit dazu.",{"text":56596,"start":20749,"end":20785},"Ich glaube, das ist eine ist aber 'n Stück weit normal.",{"text":56598,"start":20789,"end":20820},"Aber es ist vor allen Dingen das, was Du gesagt hast.",{"text":56600,"start":20823,"end":20906},"Mein Vater hat damals mit den richtigen Leuten zusammengearbeitet, die die richtigen Leute eingestellt und das ist etwas, was uns als Unternehmen bis heute noch auszeichnet.",{"sentences":56602,"speaker":842,"num_words":56613,"start":20910,"end":21386},[56603,56605,56607,56609,56611],{"text":56604,"start":20910,"end":20961},"Ich finde, wir haben gerade 'n besonders starkes Leadershipteam, worüber ich auch sehr dankbar bin.",{"text":56606,"start":20961,"end":21011},"Ich mein, ich hab eben die wohl beschrieben, wir haben eine gewisse Komplexität auch dabei.",{"text":56608,"start":21014,"end":21090},"Wenn es irgendwo son einsamen Geschäftsführer oben gäbe und wenn ich das dann noch wäre, ich glaube, das wär sehr, sehr schwer.",{"text":56610,"start":21094,"end":21271},"Insofern bin ich sehr dankbar dafür, dass wir immer schon diese diese Kultur hatten 1 starken Leadershipteams, immer schon sehr, sehr gute Leute hatten Und die sind es letzten Ende die die diese schwierigen Entscheidungen dann auch treffen konnten, ohne dass mein Vater oder ich als Nichttechniker dort immer alles 100 Prozent beurteilen konnten.",{"text":56612,"start":21275,"end":21386},"Und trotzdem ist es natürlich so, wir haben auch den Anspruch heute als als Leadershipteam, dass wir wie unser, wie man Co Geschäftsführer hat, wie der Globik so schön sagt, wir sind keine Frühstücksdirektoren.",140,{"sentences":56615,"speaker":842,"num_words":1364,"start":21391,"end":21702},[56616,56618,56620,56622,56624],{"text":56617,"start":21391,"end":21534},"Jeder von uns hat seine Bereiche, in denen er immer mit dabei ist, wo er im Fieg mal rumspringt, wo er mittextet, wo er aber auch bei Technologieentscheidungen mit dabei ist, auch wenn er auch wenn man selber vielleicht kein Techniker ist.",{"text":56619,"start":21534,"end":21577},"Aber grade die großen Technologieentscheidungen sind ja eigentlich eher fast nur strategischer Natur.",{"text":56621,"start":21577,"end":21609},"Was ist uns wichtig und was wollen wir letzten Endes?",{"text":56623,"start":21612,"end":21675},"Und da kann man sehr wohl, glaub ich, als Nichttechniker zumindest 'n Input leisten und muss es wahrscheinlich auch.",{"text":56625,"start":21678,"end":21702},"Ich hoffe, das beantwortet deine Frage 'n bisschen.",{"sentences":56627,"speaker":128,"num_words":55705,"start":21706,"end":21947},[56628,56629,56631,56633,56635],{"text":413,"start":21706,"end":21707},{"text":56630,"start":21707,"end":21714},"Ja, definitiv.",{"text":56632,"start":21717,"end":21902},"Aber vielleicht kannst Du mich dann ja gern noch mal, jetzt hast Du schon mal, jetzt sind wir schon fast, also sozusagen das erste Tool gejobbt, ihr ihr nutzt Figma zur Entwicklung, aber vielleicht kannst Du mich gerne auch von auf 'ner hohen Flughöhe erst mal abholen, so, wie wie genau entwickelt ihr denn Software?",{"text":56634,"start":21902,"end":21926},"Also wie wie wie ist Entscheidungsfindung so?",{"text":56636,"start":21926,"end":21947},"Wie sind eure Teams aufgestellt so?",{"sentences":56638,"speaker":128,"num_words":55778,"start":21947,"end":22023},[56639,56641],{"text":56640,"start":21947,"end":22003},"Wie also gerne so die Struktur, sowohl was Prozesse als auch was irgendwie Teamstrukturen angeht.",{"text":56642,"start":22003,"end":22023},"Probier mich da gerne mal durch",{"sentences":56644,"speaker":149,"num_words":56142,"start":22023,"end":22088},[56645,56647,56649,56650],{"text":56646,"start":22023,"end":22031},"zum Job.",{"text":56648,"start":22031,"end":22063},"Bevor Du das antwortest, würde die Frage gerne erweitern.",{"text":22071,"start":22067,"end":22068},{"text":56651,"start":22068,"end":22088},"Ist ja nicht so, dass ich",{"sentences":56653,"speaker":128,"num_words":56098,"start":22088,"end":22109},[56654],{"text":56655,"start":22088,"end":22109},"sie schon sehr breit gestellt hab.",{"sentences":56657,"speaker":149,"num_words":56668,"start":22109,"end":22377},[56658,56660,56662,56664,56666],{"text":56659,"start":22109,"end":22159},"Ja, also weil weil Du auch so auf diesen Prozessen und und wie passiert das?",{"text":56661,"start":22162,"end":22287},"Ich stell mir das grade in in eurem Space, also egal ob wir jetzt über über Bool und VISO oder über Invoice und Billbop und so was reden, das ist ja immer auch 'n bisschen von außen getrieben, ne.",{"text":56663,"start":22287,"end":22310},"Also was gibt es für rechtliche Vorgaben?",{"text":56665,"start":22314,"end":22325},"Wie ändern die sich?",{"text":56667,"start":22328,"end":22377},"So, das gibt ja schon viel vor, was einfach gemacht werden muss, ob Du willst oder nicht, ne.",83,{"sentences":56670,"speaker":149,"num_words":56217,"start":22377,"end":22793},[56671,56673,56675,56677,56679],{"text":56672,"start":22377,"end":22445},"Da muss halt irgendwie eine Rechnung angepasst werden, da muss müssen neue Felder hinzugefügt werden et cetera, et cetera.",{"text":56674,"start":22445,"end":22560},"Und gleichzeitig habt ihr ja einen einen einen Veröffentlichungszyklus Schrägstrich Rhythmus, der ja auch son bisschen fremdbestimmt ist, weil wird halt jedes Jahr, ne, gibt's 'n Jahresabschluss, wird eine Steuererklärung gemacht, so.",{"text":56676,"start":22560,"end":22612},"Das das liegt ja auch nicht in eurer Hand, wann ihr dann veröffentlichen wollt oder nicht.",{"text":56678,"start":22615,"end":22752},"Und das sind ja so so 2 Seiten, von denen so der Handlungsspielraum für Sachen, die jetzt rein von euch kommen, neue Features, neue Produktideen, die das ja schon son bisschen einschränken, einfach, was überhaupt vielleicht links und rechts möglich ist.",{"text":56680,"start":22752,"end":22793},"Und das stell ich mir halt als son sehr spannenden Drahtseilakt vor.",{"sentences":56682,"speaker":128,"num_words":56142,"start":22797,"end":22853},[56683],{"text":56684,"start":22797,"end":22853},"Ja, also eigentlich hast Du schon angefangen, die Frage 'n bisschen zu beantworten, kann man sagen, jeden Tag.",{"sentences":56686,"speaker":149,"num_words":56695,"start":22853,"end":22927},[56687,56689,56691,56693],{"text":56688,"start":22853,"end":22877},"Ich weiß nicht, was die Antwort ist.",{"text":56690,"start":22877,"end":22892},"Ich weiß ja noch nicht.",{"text":56692,"start":22892,"end":22902},"Jetzt noch nicht.",{"text":56694,"start":22905,"end":22927},"Du hast mal gemught, was Teil der",22,{"sentences":56697,"speaker":128,"num_words":56497,"start":22927,"end":22958},[56698,56700],{"text":56699,"start":22927,"end":22937},"Antwort sein könnte so.",{"text":56701,"start":22937,"end":22958},"Es gibt doch Anforderungen von außen.",{"sentences":56703,"speaker":842,"num_words":56714,"start":22962,"end":23154},[56704,56706,56708,56710,56712],{"text":56705,"start":22962,"end":22991},"Ja, also alles alles, was Jan sagt, sowieso, nein.",{"text":56707,"start":22995,"end":23016},"Es ist aber tatsächlich so, wie er sagt.",{"text":56709,"start":23016,"end":23071},"Wir haben zum einen haben wir einen einen Rhythmus, der ein Stück weit von außen diktiert ist.",{"text":56711,"start":23071,"end":23094},"Das ist zumindest in der Steuerwelt so.",{"text":56713,"start":23094,"end":23154},"In der Buchhaltungswelt ist das ist das nicht so umfangreich und nicht nicht in diesem starken Maß.",58,{"sentences":56716,"speaker":842,"num_words":56314,"start":23158,"end":23361},[56717,56719,56721,56723,56725],{"text":56718,"start":23158,"end":23221},"Das heißt, ich sag mal, Du hast, wenn wir jetzt beim Steuerbereich bleiben, hast Du einen einen starken Jahresrhythmus, ja.",{"text":56720,"start":23221,"end":23268},"Du weißt, dann und dann bringen wir in die nächste die nächste Version raus.",{"text":56722,"start":23268,"end":23297},"Das heißt, dann und dann muss die fertig sein.",{"text":56724,"start":23300,"end":23328},"Das ist der Zeitraum, in dem wir was machen können.",{"text":56726,"start":23331,"end":23361},"Zum zur Deadline lassen wir die Finger von allem, ja.",{"sentences":56728,"speaker":842,"num_words":56060,"start":23361,"end":23510},[56729,56731,56733,56735,56737],{"text":56730,"start":23361,"end":23392},"Da werden wir auch keine keine Updates mehr fahren.",{"text":56732,"start":23392,"end":23416},"Was alles, was nicht absolut notwendig ist.",{"text":56734,"start":23416,"end":23438},"Da werden wir 0 Risiko gehen, ja.",{"text":56736,"start":23441,"end":23471},"Das ist das ist so der von außen auferlegte Rhythmus.",{"text":56738,"start":23471,"end":23510},"Und den musst Du natürlich fahren und der hilft dir als Unternehmen.",{"sentences":56740,"speaker":842,"num_words":56750,"start":23513,"end":23845},[56741,56742,56744,56746,56748],{"text":23516,"start":23513,"end":23514},{"text":56743,"start":23514,"end":23625},"Und dann musst Du aber gleichzeitig und das ist dann in der Tat die Challenge, musst Du sagen, okay, außerhalb dieses dieses Rhythmus arbeite ich jetzt eigentlich an den an den Innovationsthemen, ja.",{"text":56745,"start":23625,"end":23693},"Jetzt muss ich ich muss 'n Stück weit nicht 2 Geschwindigkeiten fahren, aber 2 verschiedene Arten von Softwareentwicklungen fahren.",{"text":56747,"start":23693,"end":23775},"Einmal die von außen auferlegte, wo ich neue steuerliche Rahmenbedingungen mit abbilde, neue buchhalterische Themen mit integriere, ja, die von außen auferlegten.",{"text":56749,"start":23779,"end":23845},"Und dann hast Du aber die intern Getriebenen, ja, wo Du sagst, ich brauche neue Features, ich brauche neue Technologien.",95,{"sentences":56752,"speaker":842,"num_words":56399,"start":23849,"end":24098},[56753,56755,56757,56759,56761],{"text":56754,"start":23849,"end":23923},"Ich möchte das, was bisher manuell war, möcht ich jetzt irgendwie durch durch KI vorantreiben und so und so weiter und so fort.",{"text":56756,"start":23927,"end":23979},"Und Du musst achtgeben, dass der Rhythmus des einen, dieser Jahresrhythmus, nicht den Rhythmus des anderen diktiert.",{"text":56758,"start":23983,"end":24021},"Denn dann wird's gefährlich, denn dann wirst Du ganz schnell langsam.",{"text":56760,"start":24021,"end":24074},"Und das Problem ist natürlich auch, der eine Rhythmus ist ein Muss, der von außen auch verlegte.",{"text":56762,"start":24078,"end":24098},"Der andere Rhythmus ist ein Kann, ja.",{"sentences":56764,"speaker":842,"num_words":55679,"start":24101,"end":24381},[56765,56767,56769,56771,56773],{"text":56766,"start":24101,"end":24172},"Und das heißt natürlich, es kann ja sehr schnell passieren, dass der dass der Muss Rhythmus immer den den Kanu Rhythmus übersteuert.",{"text":56768,"start":24176,"end":24193},"Und das das ist eine Gefahr.",{"text":56770,"start":24193,"end":24275},"Deswegen Du musst zusehen, dass Du immer Teile des Teams hast, die innovationsgetrieben arbeiten, die einfach auch zusehen, dass ihre Sachen rauskommen, ja.",{"text":56772,"start":24278,"end":24346},"Und Du musst auch sehr stark unterscheiden, was sind Bereiche, wo ich Fehler machen darf und was sind Bereiche, wo ich's nicht machen darf?",{"text":56774,"start":24346,"end":24381},"Bei der steuerlichen Logik, da sind 0 Fehlertoleranz, ja.",{"sentences":56776,"speaker":842,"num_words":56787,"start":24381,"end":24654},[56777,56779,56781,56783,56785],{"text":56778,"start":24381,"end":24407},"Das darf ich einfach nicht versauen, fertig erst.",{"text":56780,"start":24411,"end":24494},"Bei den Innovationsthemen, wenn ich sage, okay, das hier eben, jetzt mach ich mit KI oder sonst irgendwas, aber KI ist einfach 'n schönes Beispiel.",{"text":56782,"start":24498,"end":24551},"Da darf ich sagen, okay, da muss ich auch sagen, hier bin ich auch mal unperfekt, ja.",{"text":56784,"start":24551,"end":24598},"Hier hier bring ich auch mal Sachen raus und vielleicht geht's auch schief, ja.",{"text":56786,"start":24598,"end":24654},"Aber ich muss hier eine hohe Geschwindigkeit fahren und ich muss einfach eine andere Risikobereitschaft haben.",80,{"sentences":56789,"speaker":128,"num_words":1364,"start":24657,"end":24962},[56790,56792,56794,56796,56798],{"text":56791,"start":24657,"end":24698},"Und das heißt, gibt es unternehmerisch schon auch diese Muss und Kann Teams?",{"text":56793,"start":24698,"end":24768},"Also trennt ihr Teams nach diesen nach diesem Art des Arbeitens oder machen, also wie wie macht ihr die Trennung danach?",{"text":56795,"start":24768,"end":24837},"Und wie wie ihr auch, ich mein, es ist ja am Ende halt trotzdem Software, am Ende die gleiche irgendwie Infrastruktur.",{"text":56797,"start":24841,"end":24932},"Wie schaut ihr denn, dass die einen, die Fehler machen dürfen, nicht Fehler reinbringen in ein System, wo andere da eigentlich darauf achten müssen, dass keine reinkommen soll?",{"text":56799,"start":24932,"end":24962},"Also wie ist wie wie funktioniert denn diese Trennung?",{"sentences":56801,"speaker":128,"num_words":55671,"start":24962,"end":24990},[56802],{"text":56803,"start":24962,"end":24990},"Ist das ist das Gleichnis, dass natürlich Teams?",{"sentences":56805,"speaker":842,"num_words":55855,"start":24993,"end":25270},[56806,56808,56810,56812,56814],{"text":56807,"start":24993,"end":25022},"Es ist nicht ganz leicht, es auch zu sagen.",{"text":56809,"start":25022,"end":25090},"Also es gibt kein, Du bist nicht Mitglied im Team M oder im Team K, das jetzt nicht.",{"text":56811,"start":25093,"end":25173},"Aber ich sag mal, es es kommt darauf an, eben in welchem Projekt Du arbeitest, welche Verantwortung Du gerade hast für welches Thema.",{"text":56813,"start":25177,"end":25216},"Und das muss natürlich auch 'n Stück weit zu den Leuten passen, ja.",{"text":56815,"start":25216,"end":25270},"Und dann muss auch in der in der Anforderung definiert werden, worum geht es hier, ja?",{"sentences":56817,"speaker":842,"num_words":56824,"start":25270,"end":25396},[56818,56820,56822],{"text":56819,"start":25270,"end":25288},"Und was was ist die Erwartungshaltung?",{"text":56821,"start":25292,"end":25355},"Daran hängt es, aber es ist es ist auch 'n Kampf die richtige Struktur an der Stelle, ganz klar.",{"text":56823,"start":25358,"end":25396},"Und da ist auch die Diskussion ist noch nicht ausgefochten, absolut nicht.",37,{"sentences":56826,"speaker":149,"num_words":56230,"start":25398,"end":25714},[56827,56829,56831,56833,56835],{"text":56828,"start":25398,"end":25462},"Du hast auch gerade gesagt, man man das muss man auch die richtige Person für sein, ne, so zu arbeiten.",{"text":56830,"start":25467,"end":25516},"Softwareentwickler müssen ja immer auch so die Domäne verstehen, in der sie unterwegs sind, ja.",{"text":56832,"start":25516,"end":25573},"Also wenn wir hier Spiele bauen, müssen wir verstehen, wie Spiele funktionieren, was so Mechaniken dahinter sind.",{"text":56834,"start":25573,"end":25623},"Wenn jemand im E-Commerce unterwegs ist, muss er von Marketing und Produktahnung haben, ja.",{"text":56836,"start":25626,"end":25714},"Und wenn jemand bei euch Software baut, dann stell ich mir das so mit als die komplexeste Domäne vor, die man so nebenbei irgendwie noch beherrschen muss.",{"sentences":56838,"speaker":149,"num_words":55855,"start":25717,"end":25986},[56839,56841,56843],{"text":56840,"start":25717,"end":25742},"Wie wie wie stellt ihr das denn denn sicher?",{"text":56842,"start":25742,"end":25856},"Weil also, ich stell mir vor, die allerwenigsten Menschen, die zu euch kommen, sind schon absolute Steuerprofis vorher, sondern die müssen es ja irgendwie bei euch, mit euch während der Arbeit irgendwie lernen.",{"text":56844,"start":25860,"end":25986},"Habt habt ihr da son son Framework für euch gefunden, allen Teams, egal ob das jetzt, ne, Software wird da sicherlich ein ist, aber auch Leuten im im Support und so weiter, denen halt noch Fachwissen mitzugeben?",{"sentences":56846,"speaker":842,"num_words":56857,"start":25990,"end":26177},[56847,56849,56851,56853,56855],{"text":56848,"start":25990,"end":26012},"Ja, also wir haben sehr unterschiedliche Biografien.",{"text":56850,"start":26016,"end":26063},"Der Standardisierungsgrad ist auch sehr unterschiedlich, eben im im Support und und im Service.",{"text":56852,"start":26063,"end":26099},"Da da sind natürlich die Trainingswege wesentlich standardisierter, ne.",{"text":56854,"start":26102,"end":26137},"Als das jetzt, sagen wir mal, im Produktmanagement der Fall ist.",{"text":56856,"start":26140,"end":26177},"Da da haben wir zum einen haben wir immer Fachleute im Team.",53,{"sentences":56859,"speaker":842,"num_words":55855,"start":26177,"end":26430},[56860,56862,56864,56866,56868],{"text":56861,"start":26177,"end":26313},"Das heißt, wir haben Buchhaltungsexperten, wir haben Steuerexperten, die sind normaler Bestandteil des Teams, aber in der Regel nicht da, wo Du grade neuem aufbauen willst und wo Du sagst, jetzt eigentlich jetzt bräuchten wir eigentlich einen hier mitten mitten im Team.",{"text":56863,"start":26313,"end":26346},"Da hast Du natürlich immer keinen, wie das so ist.",{"text":56865,"start":26346,"end":26383},"Den kannst Du ja auch nicht in der Regel so schnell schnitzen.",{"text":56867,"start":26387,"end":26398},"Ist wahrscheinlich auch gut so.",{"text":56869,"start":26398,"end":26430},"Und dann sind die Wege auch oft 'n bisschen ungerarder.",{"sentences":56871,"speaker":842,"num_words":56882,"start":26434,"end":26700},[56872,56874,56876,56878,56880],{"text":56873,"start":26434,"end":26446},"Viel ist tatsächlich Erfahrung.",{"text":56875,"start":26450,"end":26531},"Du kommst rein, Du bist vielleicht, Du trägst nicht die Verantwortung für Fachlichkeit, aber Du lernst dazu, Du hast die richtigen Leute an der Hand.",{"text":56877,"start":26531,"end":26582},"Du weißt, wen Du fragen kannst und dann wird auch irgendwann 'n strukturierter Prozess draus.",{"text":56879,"start":26582,"end":26667},"Aber wenn ich mir das jetzt grade mal anschaue, wenn wir Buchhaltungslogik in den Bilbov integrieren, ja, ich seh das an unserer Produktmanagerin.",{"text":56881,"start":26671,"end":26700},"Die hat verschiedene Vorstation bei uns im Unternehmen gehabt.",76,{"sentences":56884,"speaker":842,"num_words":56895,"start":26700,"end":26965},[56885,56887,56889,56891,56893],{"text":56886,"start":26700,"end":26736},"Die ist mit dem Thema schon in den Berührungen gekommen, ja.",{"text":56888,"start":26739,"end":26776},"Die hatte schon eine Grundahnung und da hat sie sich dann weiterentwickelt.",{"text":56890,"start":26780,"end":26859},"Und dann haben wir aber auch im Unternehmen wiederum die richtigen Ressourcen, die sie dann wieder ansprechen kann und die dann auch entsprechend unterstützen können.",{"text":56892,"start":26859,"end":26914},"Also ich sag mal so, wir haben ein gewisses Grundwissen im Unternehmen, das ist auch wichtig so.",{"text":56894,"start":26914,"end":26965},"Und das können dann Leute auch reinwachsen und können dann auch selbst Teil dieser Fachlichkeit werden.",81,{"sentences":56897,"speaker":149,"num_words":56904,"start":26969,"end":27099},[56898,56900,56902],{"text":56899,"start":26969,"end":27001},"Und hab ich das eben richtig in der Halbzeit verstanden?",{"text":56901,"start":27001,"end":27025},"Ihr macht crossfunktionale Teams dann entsprechend da?",{"text":56903,"start":27025,"end":27099},"Wenn Du sagst, da sind zum Beispiel auch Fachleute schon mit dabei, das heißt, es gibt immer Teams mit unterschiedlicher Zusammensetzung dafür.",39,{"sentences":56906,"speaker":842,"num_words":55658,"start":27103,"end":27149},[56907,56908],{"text":413,"start":27103,"end":27104},{"text":56909,"start":27104,"end":27149},"Ist nicht ist nicht von Produkt zu Produkt gleich, aber in der Regel ja.",{"sentences":56911,"speaker":149,"num_words":128,"start":27152,"end":27153},[56912],{"text":8185,"start":27152,"end":27153},{"sentences":56914,"speaker":842,"num_words":249,"start":27153,"end":27205},[56915,56917,56919],{"text":56916,"start":27153,"end":27169},"Du hast fachlichen Vielleicht.",{"text":56918,"start":27173,"end":27178},"Produktmanagement Input.",{"text":56920,"start":27178,"end":27205},"Du hast Du hast die Entwickler selbst, Marketing.",{"sentences":56922,"speaker":149,"num_words":56158,"start":27211,"end":27221},[56923,56924,56925],{"text":27215,"start":27211,"end":27212},{"text":8185,"start":27212,"end":27217},{"text":413,"start":27220,"end":27221},{"sentences":56927,"speaker":128,"num_words":56080,"start":27224,"end":27616},[56928,56930,56932,56934,56936],{"text":56929,"start":27224,"end":27259},"Ich muss noch mal 'n bisschen nachfragen hin zu eurem Entwicklungsprozess.",{"text":56931,"start":27263,"end":27376},"Und ich, was ich noch nicht so komplett verstanden hab, ist, wie denn genau bei euch neue Features in Software irgendwie priorisiert werden und wie nehmen Teams diese Features und priorisieren Kann versus Muss Features gegeneinander so.",{"text":56933,"start":27376,"end":27435},"Also ich probier mich gern mal davon abzuholen, so in welchem Zeit, also wann wann plant die werden?",{"text":56935,"start":27435,"end":27513},"Son Musthema am Anfang des Jahres und dann ist klar, das muss dieses Jahr geschehen so und wie passieren dann diese Kann Themen parallel?",{"text":56937,"start":27513,"end":27616},"So wie ist dieser wie ist wie ist der Prozess von Idee, das müssten wir machen, gerne das ist dann jetzt eher im Kann Bereich, zu, jetzt ist es umgesetzt so.",{"sentences":56939,"speaker":128,"num_words":56824,"start":27616,"end":27738},[56940],{"text":56941,"start":27616,"end":27738},"Wie wem ich da mal irgendwie reinzusondern und wie wie die Teams selbst jonglieren zwischen, das hätte der Moritz jetzt gerne dieses Jahr, dass wir dann 'n Innovationsfeature haben und da sagt der Staat, das muss aber.",{"sentences":56943,"speaker":842,"num_words":56399,"start":27742,"end":28002},[56944,56946,56948,56950,56952],{"text":56945,"start":27742,"end":27805},"Ja, wie gesagt, für das für das, was der Staat sagt, da hast Du eigentlich einen einen festen Rhythmus, ja.",{"text":56947,"start":27805,"end":27846},"Der wird einfach gelebt, der ist in der in der Organisation drin.",{"text":56949,"start":27850,"end":27881},"Das andere sind, ich ich hätt fast gesagt, normale Priorisierungsprozesse.",{"text":56951,"start":27885,"end":27964},"1 unserer Hauptanliegen, wo wir aber auch immer wieder kläglich versagen, ist, dass wir sagen, wir brauchen Fokus bei diesen Kanthemen, ne.",{"text":56953,"start":27967,"end":28002},"Und wir müssen aktiv aktiv Ressourcen dafür finden, Ressourcen dafür freimachen.",{"sentences":56955,"speaker":842,"num_words":56127,"start":28006,"end":28368},[56956,56958,56960,56962,56964],{"text":56957,"start":28006,"end":28013},"Ja, ich ja.",{"text":56959,"start":28013,"end":28074},"Ich wünschte manchmal, es wäre nicht so, aber wahrscheinlich hat jeder immer das Gefühl, man hat zu wenig Leute.",{"text":56961,"start":28074,"end":28149},"Aber umgekehrt, es hilft uns eben in diesem Priorisierungsprozess, dass man eben nicht unendlich Ressourcen hat, deswegen ist das eine gute Sache.",{"text":56963,"start":28153,"end":28283},"Ich ich kann dir keinen festen Prozess als Antwort geben, aber wir müssen für uns immer wieder neu definieren und das ist nicht einmal im Jahr, das ist eher Jeden Monat hätt ich bald gesagt, immer wieder, was ist uns wirklich wichtig?",{"text":56965,"start":28287,"end":28368},"Weil wir auch während des Jahres lernen wir natürlich immer wieder, wir lernen über diese Kant Features auch und es verändert sich auch ständig immer wieder.",{"sentences":56967,"speaker":842,"num_words":56007,"start":28368,"end":28579},[56968,56970,56972,56974],{"text":56969,"start":28368,"end":28395},"Und insofern, das ist 'n recht agiler Prozess.",{"text":56971,"start":28399,"end":28482},"Aber tatsächlich musst Du regelmäßig die Richtung festklopfen und sagen, okay, das haben wir vielleicht letzten Monat gedacht, das müssen wir machen oder sollten wir machen, ja.",{"text":56973,"start":28485,"end":28570},"Es ist für uns als Unternehmen relevant, es ist für den Kunden relevant, dass es immer noch war, aber das Cop hat sich jetzt vielleicht noch mal verändert.",{"text":56975,"start":28574,"end":28579},"Aber ich",{"sentences":56977,"speaker":128,"num_words":56857,"start":28579,"end":28759},[56978,56980,56982,56984],{"text":56979,"start":28579,"end":28607},"muss, ich muss trotzdem noch mal nach nachklopfen.",{"text":56981,"start":28612,"end":28629},"Wer wer genau ist das Wir?",{"text":56983,"start":28629,"end":28689},"Also wer wer macht, also ich hab jetzt eine Produktmanagerin, die für ein Team verantwortlich ist so.",{"text":56985,"start":28692,"end":28759},"Wo bist Du da drin und wo ist das Produktmanagement drin und wer wer ist das, wie er die darüber entscheidet hat?",{"sentences":56987,"speaker":149,"num_words":55928,"start":28759,"end":28821},[56988,56990],{"text":56989,"start":28759,"end":28805},"Ist sone Frage nach der Autonomie in den Teams oder worauf worum geht's dir?",{"text":56991,"start":28808,"end":28821},"Ja, eigentlich nee, erst mal",{"sentences":56993,"speaker":128,"num_words":55855,"start":28821,"end":29077},[56994,56996,56998,57000],{"text":56995,"start":28821,"end":28959},"nur zu verstehen, wie genau so Features, also wie wie kommt bei bei Boul sein, weil ist das halt schon, für mich ist das aus meiner Brille son, also mit diesen sehr restriktiven Anforderungen irgendwie eine andere Art der der Softwareentwicklung so.",{"text":56997,"start":28959,"end":29008},"Und ich würde gerne wissen so, wie wie in welchen Kreisen wird über solche Features diskutiert?",{"text":56999,"start":29008,"end":29029},"Wie wie kommen sie am Ende rein?",{"text":57001,"start":29029,"end":29077},"Und so so der der Lebenstyp ist son bisschen einfach besser besser zu verstehen.",{"sentences":57003,"speaker":842,"num_words":57013,"start":29081,"end":29482},[57004,57005,57007,57009,57011],{"text":413,"start":29081,"end":29082},{"text":57006,"start":29086,"end":29128},"Viele, nicht nur Vorschläge, auch Entscheidungen kommen natürlich von den Produktmanagern selbst.",{"text":57008,"start":29131,"end":29279},"Aber, und das war auch das, was ich eben meinte, jeder aus unserem Leadershipteam, die jetzt irgendwo Umsatz- und Produktverantwortung haben, ja, sprich in der in der BULTEC Service mit 'nem Peter Schmitz als Geschäftsführer dort im Buchhaltungsbereich oder bei mir mit Bilob.",{"text":57010,"start":29283,"end":29391},"Jeder von uns hat ausm Leadership Team hat seine seine Produkte und seine Bereiche oder sein Produkt, wo er eben sehr hands on mit dabei ist und wo er eben aktiv Teil dieses Priorisierungsprozesses ist.",{"text":57012,"start":29391,"end":29482},"Also es ist nicht so, dass wir am Ende des Jahres da mal runtergehen und mal sagen, gucken wir uns doch mal an, wie die Software jetzt aussieht.",119,{"sentences":57015,"speaker":842,"num_words":57024,"start":29486,"end":29683},[57016,57018,57020,57022],{"text":57017,"start":29486,"end":29530},"Und was jetzt auch sehr geworden ist im Laufe des Jahres gar nicht eben.",{"text":57019,"start":29530,"end":29563},"Das meine ich, da sind wir wirklich eng mit dabei.",{"text":57021,"start":29563,"end":29644},"Jeder, der irgendwo Produktverantwortung trägt und das ist auch gleichzeitig bei uns in der Regel mit Umsatzverantwortung, die beiden gehen Hand in Hand.",{"text":57023,"start":29647,"end":29683},"Nicht jeder ist in allem drin, aber jeder ist irgendwo tief drin.",59,{"sentences":57026,"speaker":128,"num_words":56695,"start":29686,"end":29755},[57027],{"text":57028,"start":29686,"end":29755},"Das heißt, das ist auch das, was Du am Anfang meint, das mit, ihr seid nicht die, wie war der Begriff, die",{"sentences":57030,"speaker":842,"num_words":842,"start":29759,"end":29766},[57031],{"text":57032,"start":29759,"end":29766},"Frühstückdirektororen, ja.",{"sentences":57034,"speaker":128,"num_words":57045,"start":29766,"end":30105},[57035,57037,57039,57041,57043],{"text":57036,"start":29766,"end":29785},"Die Frühstücksdirektororen, sondern so so.",{"text":57038,"start":29785,"end":29892},"Ihr im Leadershipteam seid ihr dann nach Produkten irgendwie aufgeteilt und derjenige, der verantwortlich für das Produkt ist, ist so einfach sehr nah und am Ende irgendwie im im Entwicklungsprozess mit drin.",{"text":57040,"start":29892,"end":29935},"Das heißt, es ist irgendwie eine 'n Zusammenspiel aus Leadershipteam plus Produktmanager.",{"text":57042,"start":29939,"end":30047},"Dadurch, dass die so eng zusammen sind, ist es nicht ein einmal im Monat Report gemacht, ab und zu kommen wir von oben Ideen rein dann wieder, sondern ist einfach eine sehr enge Zusammenarbeiten.",{"text":57044,"start":30051,"end":30105},"Es gibt, das das war auch der Teil, den man auch bis jetzt nicht so ganz bewusst hat.",101,{"sentences":57047,"speaker":128,"num_words":57050,"start":30105,"end":30160},[57048],{"text":57049,"start":30105,"end":30160},"Wie wie sind denn die Hierarchien zwischen Produktmanagement bis hin zu einem ausm Leadershipteam, der Produktverantwortung hat?",17,{"sentences":57052,"speaker":842,"num_words":1335,"start":30163,"end":30450},[57053,57054,57056,57058,57060],{"text":413,"start":30163,"end":30164},{"text":57055,"start":30168,"end":30220},"Und dazu kommt kommt dann noch mal die technische Seite, auch eben vertreten durch durch unseren CTO.",{"text":57057,"start":30224,"end":30241},"Insofern eine gewisse Komplexität ist da.",{"text":57059,"start":30241,"end":30362},"Es gibt auch gewisse Überschneidungen, aber am Ende und das ist 'n wichtiger Punkt für uns, bei aller Technik, die wichtig ist, wir schauen am Ende ganz klar auf das, was sieht der Kunde, was was erlebt der Kunde?",{"text":57061,"start":30362,"end":30450},"Wir sind sehr, sehr stark User Experience getrieben und insofern, da sind wir natürlich mit bei den Produktmanagern und auch bei den Designern mit am engsten dran.",{"sentences":57063,"speaker":842,"num_words":55791,"start":30454,"end":30525},[57064],{"text":57065,"start":30454,"end":30525},"Es ist auch das, wo wir natürlich auch, wo jemand wie ich mit meinem Hintergrund, den ich eben beschrieben hab, am ehesten mitreden kann.",{"sentences":57067,"speaker":149,"num_words":128,"start":30528,"end":30529},[57068],{"text":27215,"start":30528,"end":30529},{"sentences":57070,"speaker":842,"num_words":57075,"start":30532,"end":30704},[57071,57073],{"text":57072,"start":30532,"end":30584},"Das heißt, es ist, mal beim Beispiel Bilob zu bleiben, wo ich eben hands on mit dabei bin.",{"text":57074,"start":30587,"end":30704},"Es ist absolut normal, dass ich mit Entwicklern und Produktmanagerin, dass wir auch physisch einfach zusammensitzen, über die Schulter gucken, Designs angucken, Entscheidungen gemeinsam treffen, also wirklich zusammen im Gespräch und Hands on.",51,{"sentences":57077,"speaker":149,"num_words":57084,"start":30708,"end":31134},[57078,57080,57082],{"text":57079,"start":30708,"end":30911},"Bevor wir gleich auf das Thema kommen, weil ich glaub, dann ergibt sich auch noch die ein oder andere Antwort für das, was Fabi grade gefragt hat, hätt ich noch eine oder vielleicht 2 Fragen zu dem Thema AI, weil Du's grade auch schon wieder erwähnt hattest als 1 von diesen neuen Themen, die man sich jetzt halt auch mal anschauen muss und das irgendwie da mit mit reinbringen muss.",{"text":57081,"start":30914,"end":31059},"Ich muss ehrlich sagen, dass so meine Steuererklärung nicht das erste Thema ist, das mir einfällt, wenn ich an an AI denke Und AI ja grade so in seinen Kinderschuhen noch eher dafür bekannt war, herumzufantasieren, als irgendwie fachlich korrekte Antworten zu liefern.",{"text":57083,"start":31063,"end":31134},"Wie nähert ihr euch denn dem Thema, wenn grade bei euch so Korrektheit ja eigentlich das oberste dogmatische Gebot sein muss?",134,{"sentences":57086,"speaker":842,"num_words":56787,"start":31138,"end":31407},[57087,57089,57091,57093,57095],{"text":57088,"start":31138,"end":31143},"Ja, absolut.",{"text":57090,"start":31147,"end":31156},"In zweierlei Hinsicht.",{"text":57092,"start":31156,"end":31254},"Also zum einen haben wir tatsächlich den Anspruch, dass wir in der Lage sind, mithilfe von ai fachlich korrekte Inhalte an den Kunden ranzubringen, ohne zu fantasieren, ja.",{"text":57094,"start":31257,"end":31367},"Da sind wir dann auch wieder da sind wir wieder bei unserer technischen ai Infrastruktur, die wir aufgebaut haben und weiter am Ausbauen sind, wo wir natürlich die komplette Kontrolle über die Inhalte haben.",{"text":57096,"start":31367,"end":31407},"Ja, und da liegt es dann an uns, ob fantasie wird oder nicht.",{"sentences":57098,"speaker":842,"num_words":56480,"start":31410,"end":31609},[57099,57101,57103,57105,57107],{"text":57100,"start":31410,"end":31457},"Zum anderen ist es aber natürlich auch einfach, ich sag mal, ein ein UX Hilfsmittel.",{"text":57102,"start":31461,"end":31517},"Wie cool ist es, wenn Du deine Software einfach fragen kannst, hey, ich hab hier jetzt diese Ausgabe.",{"text":57104,"start":31522,"end":31541},"Soll ich die jetzt überhaupt scannen?",{"text":57106,"start":31541,"end":31553},"Lohnt sich das?",{"text":57108,"start":31556,"end":31609},"Oder wenn umgekehrt die Software dich zurückfragt, hey, dies kann dies oder jenes bedeuten, ja?",{"sentences":57110,"speaker":842,"num_words":56480,"start":31612,"end":31790},[57111,57113,57115,57117],{"text":57112,"start":31612,"end":31632},"Was ist denn jetzt tatsächlich hiermit gemeint?",{"text":57114,"start":31632,"end":31658},"Was für eine Art von Ausgabe war das?",{"text":57116,"start":31658,"end":31741},"Oder wenn die Software sagt, hey, Du bist jetzt irgendwie noch noch mal 10 Jahre älter und Du hast 'n Job, mit dem bist Du höchstwahrscheinlich Bildschirmarbeiter.",{"text":57118,"start":31745,"end":31790},"Kann es vielleicht sein, dass Du eine Gleitsichtbrille hast, die Du noch nicht angegeben hast?",{"sentences":57120,"speaker":149,"num_words":128,"start":31794,"end":31795},[57121],{"text":27215,"start":31794,"end":31795},{"sentences":57123,"speaker":842,"num_words":57134,"start":31799,"end":32163},[57124,57126,57128,57130,57132],{"text":57125,"start":31799,"end":31951},"Also insofern, ich glaube, Steuererklärung ist eigentlich prädestiniert für dieses Thema, denn Du hast ja ganz oft, wenn Du heute, ich sag mal irgendwie son Interview oder dialogbasierte Herangehensweise hast, hast, wo die Software dich was fragt und Du entweder ja nein sagst oder irgendwas eintipperst.",{"text":57127,"start":31955,"end":32022},"Was Du denkst, ist in der Regel nicht ja nein, sondern ganz oft überlegst Du ja, hm, ist das jetzt so?",{"text":57129,"start":32025,"end":32067},"Was ist denn was ist denn jetzt mit die mit diesem oder jedem Sachverhalt?",{"text":57131,"start":32071,"end":32110},"Ist es ist es ein ja nein, was geborene ich dir richtigerweise an?",{"text":57133,"start":32110,"end":32163},"Und wenn Du diese Rückfrage einfach stellen kannst in Zukunft, das ist natürlich wahnsinnig wertvoll.",109,{"sentences":57136,"speaker":128,"num_words":55764,"start":32167,"end":32460},[57137,57139,57141,57143,57145],{"text":57138,"start":32167,"end":32185},"Wie ist denn, vielleicht zur Nachfrage.",{"text":57140,"start":32185,"end":32230},"Zu erstens, wie ist denn der aktuelle Roller schon von eurer KI so?",{"text":57142,"start":32230,"end":32279},"Also ist das ein User facing facing Feature oder ist das noch grade im Test?",{"text":57144,"start":32279,"end":32417},"Und dann die Folge darauf, weil Du meintest, ja, ihr seid ja in der Verantwortung, darauf zu gucken, dass da eben kein Quatsch erzählt wird, aber es ist ja jetzt kein unterkomplexes Problem sicherzustellen, dass AI an der Stelle nicht halluziniert.",{"text":57146,"start":32421,"end":32460},"Von daher gerne die Frage so, wie wie stellt ihr's denn sicher so?",{"sentences":57148,"speaker":128,"num_words":55630,"start":32460,"end":32475},[57149],{"text":57150,"start":32460,"end":32475},"Und könnt ihr das wirklich?",{"sentences":57152,"speaker":842,"num_words":56467,"start":32479,"end":32720},[57153,57154,57156,57158,57160],{"text":413,"start":32479,"end":32480},{"text":57155,"start":32484,"end":32554},"Also was Du im Moment schon mal draußen sehen kannst, was was schon draußen ist, ist im Moment erst mal unser unser Steuer GPT.",{"text":57157,"start":32558,"end":32628},"Der ist und das ist eigentlich und deswegen ist der besonders wichtig für uns, der ist eigentlich die Grundlage für vieles, was in Zukunft kommt.",{"text":57159,"start":32628,"end":32687},"Das heißt, wenn Du siehst, ob der halluziniert oder nicht, dann wird's auch die Software in Zukunft nicht.",{"text":57161,"start":32690,"end":32720},"Und das Gute ist, wir haben schon 'n guten Qualitätsstand.",{"sentences":57163,"speaker":842,"num_words":56895,"start":32724,"end":32996},[57164,57166,57168,57170,57172],{"text":57165,"start":32724,"end":32763},"Wir sind gestartet, da war der Qualitätsstand noch nicht so supergut, ja.",{"text":57167,"start":32763,"end":32819},"Was natürlich schon mal sehr hilft, das System arbeitet nur auf unserem Wissen, den wir ihm geben.",{"text":57169,"start":32819,"end":32944},"Das heißt, der fängt nicht irgendwann der macht kein Internet suchen oder sonst irgendwann fängt nicht noch mal an, irgendwie literisches Steuerrecht auf einmal da mit reinzumixen oder sonst irgendwas, sondern der basiert rein auf unserem Content.",{"text":57171,"start":32948,"end":32971},"Das ist, glaube ich, schon mal sehr wichtig.",{"text":57173,"start":32974,"end":32996},"Dann haben wir noch einiges Weiteres getan.",{"sentences":57175,"speaker":842,"num_words":55744,"start":32996,"end":33218},[57176,57178],{"text":57177,"start":32996,"end":33077},"Da muss ich aber sagen, bin ich jetzt son bisschen inhaltlich raus, wie wir wie wir das das Fantasien an der Stelle dann verhindern.",{"text":57179,"start":33081,"end":33218},"Aber dieser Steuer GPT, der jetzt im Moment als als einfache Frage Antwort Maschine funktioniert, der ist am Ende Grundlage, damit Du dann auch in der Software, ich sag mal, dialogbasiert deine Antworten auch geben kannst beziehungsweise auch Fragen aus der Software enthält.",{"sentences":57181,"speaker":128,"num_words":56895,"start":33222,"end":33491},[57182,57183,57185,57187,57189],{"text":27215,"start":33222,"end":33223},{"text":57184,"start":33223,"end":33271},"Und vielleicht eine Frage, ich weiß gar nicht, ob Du diese beantworten kannst oder willst.",{"text":57186,"start":33274,"end":33305},"Was ist denn, welchem Modell liegt das Ganze denn zugrunde?",{"text":57188,"start":33305,"end":33418},"Weil Du jetzt auch grade vorhin meint hast, so, ihr müsst euch über On Premise Gedanken machen oder wo, wie jetzt grade 'n Zugriff von AI, so ist das eigenes Datencenter, wo liegt das?",{"text":57190,"start":33418,"end":33491},"Und unterhalten wir uns da über 'n Open Source Modell oder ist das irgendein gehostetes Modell von einem der großen Anbieter?",{"sentences":57192,"speaker":128,"num_words":55630,"start":33491,"end":33508},[57193],{"text":57194,"start":33491,"end":33508},"Ich weiß nicht, ob das",{"sentences":57196,"speaker":842,"num_words":57045,"start":33511,"end":33852},[57197,57199,57201,57203,57205],{"text":57198,"start":33511,"end":33555},"Das, was wir bei uns haben, ist all das, was wir bei uns haben.",{"text":57200,"start":33555,"end":33579},"Wir haben die Open Source Modelle für intern.",{"text":57202,"start":33583,"end":33639},"Aber wir sind natürlich auch, da sind wir grade dran, dass wir dass wir natürlich auch Weichen stellen.",{"text":57204,"start":33639,"end":33767},"Also dass sich am Ende der Agent selber die Informationen holt und die LLMs bedient, die er am besten für die für die Beantwortung der Frage braucht oder für für die Ausführung des Tasks braucht.",{"text":57206,"start":33771,"end":33852},"Aber alles, was wir im Moment draußen haben und alles, was irgendwie im Steuerbereich ist, ist wie gesagt am Brem und ist dementsprechend auch Open Source.",{"sentences":57208,"speaker":128,"num_words":55778,"start":33856,"end":33932},[57209,57211,57212],{"text":57210,"start":33856,"end":33862},"Okay, verstanden.",{"text":8185,"start":33866,"end":33867},{"text":57213,"start":33870,"end":33932},"Dann würde ich das sagen, können wir doch jetzt gern mal die Abbiegung machen zu Bill Bob, oder?",{"sentences":57215,"speaker":149,"num_words":1763,"start":33936,"end":34380},[57216,57217,57219,57221],{"text":413,"start":33936,"end":33937},{"text":57218,"start":33941,"end":34058},"Und Du hast ja schon, glaub ich, eingangs gesagt, Bilob so als Tool für Rechnungserstellung, ich glaub, für so Freelancer, Selbstständige ist so die die Zielgruppe, ne, wenn ich das richtig im Kopf hatte.",{"text":57220,"start":34062,"end":34249},"Und wenn man sich die die Webseite von von Bilbob anguckt, dann ist da ja Buhr sehr im im Hintergrund und man man sieht sowohl optisch als auch im im Branding als auch in in der Ansprache, dass es schon so sein sein eigenes Produkt ist, seine eigene Firma, Firmenphilosophie son bisschen vielleicht auch dahinter.",{"text":57222,"start":34253,"end":34380},"Wie wie kam es dazu, dass ihr für euch gesagt habt, na ja, das ist ein ein Produkt, das wollen wir irgendwie als eigenes Start-up drehen und nicht hier als Teil von Bool VISO Produkt 37 irgendwie noch noch mit aufbauen.",{"sentences":57224,"speaker":842,"num_words":56028,"start":34384,"end":34589},[57225,57227,57229],{"text":57226,"start":34384,"end":34441},"Also ganz so krass, wie Du's jetzt schilderst, sollte es gar nicht sein von bis Protokoll mal.",{"text":57228,"start":34444,"end":34566},"Du siehst es ja zum Beispiel auch daran, Du kannst dich auch mit deinem Konto da einloggen, beziehungsweise wenn Du kein noch kein BULL Konto hast, dann erstellst Du dir auch ein BULL Konto an der Stelle, ja.",{"text":57230,"start":34566,"end":34589},"Dass Du dann auch boolweit nutzen kannst.",{"sentences":57232,"speaker":149,"num_words":57235,"start":34589,"end":34704},[57233],{"text":57234,"start":34589,"end":34704},"Und das, glaube ich, korrekterweise zu sagen, es ist auch, glaube ich, gar kein, also rechtlich gesehen ist es immer noch BULL auch hinten dran, der es hat keine eigene rechtliche Entität oder so.",34,{"sentences":57237,"speaker":842,"num_words":56098,"start":34704,"end":34723},[57238],{"text":57239,"start":34704,"end":34723},"Es ist keine eigene Legal Entität,",{"sentences":57241,"speaker":149,"num_words":57245,"start":34727,"end":34819},[57242,57243],{"text":3659,"start":34727,"end":34728},{"text":57244,"start":34728,"end":34819},"Aber also es ist es wirkt halt so in seiner Ansprache son bisschen, das ist 'n bisschen jünger, das ist 'n bisschen verspielter, das ist 'n bisschen",28,{"sentences":57247,"speaker":842,"num_words":56497,"start":34822,"end":34853},[57248],{"text":57249,"start":34822,"end":34853},"Es soll auch nur mal 'n bisschen mutiger sein, genau.",{"sentences":57251,"speaker":149,"num_words":55705,"start":34856,"end":35087},[57252,57254,57256,57258,57260],{"text":57253,"start":34856,"end":34898},"Das Verzeihen, das ist 'n bisschen weniger angestaubt so, ja, vielleicht, ne.",{"text":57255,"start":34898,"end":34928},"Aber aber was steht da für eine Entscheidung hintendran?",{"text":57257,"start":34928,"end":35033},"Also das macht ihr ja nicht für alles, weil ihr habt ja auch unter unter Bool und und Viso einen großen Produktkatalog und da hätte es ja auch einen Teil von werden können.",{"text":57259,"start":35036,"end":35072},"Ist es aber nicht, sondern ihr habt da was ganz Eigenes gemacht.",{"text":57261,"start":35072,"end":35087},"Wie wie wie war das?",{"sentences":57263,"speaker":842,"num_words":57274,"start":35090,"end":35341},[57264,57266,57268,57270,57272],{"text":57265,"start":35090,"end":35109},"Ja, es gibt mehrere Gründe dafür.",{"text":57267,"start":35109,"end":35167},"Also zum einen ist es natürlich 'n Stück weit 'n Signaling, sowohl nach innen als auch nach außen.",{"text":57269,"start":35170,"end":35199},"Wir bauen hier bewusst noch mal was ganz anderes, ja.",{"text":57271,"start":35199,"end":35234},"Wir wollen uns hier auch nicht von Konventionen treiben lassen.",{"text":57273,"start":35238,"end":35341},"Gleichzeitig wollen wir das, was wir haben und was uns wertvoll macht und auch, was wir an Infrastrukturintern haben, das wollen wir mitnehmen, wie eben wohl Konto, unsere eigenen Rechenzentren und so weiter.",77,{"sentences":57276,"speaker":842,"num_words":56326,"start":35345,"end":35565},[57277,57279,57281,57283,57285],{"text":57278,"start":35345,"end":35405},"Insofern, es sollte, es hat den Anspruch son bisschen beides aus das Beste aus beiden Welten zu vereinen.",{"text":57280,"start":35409,"end":35449},"Aber klar ist eben, wir wollen hier was wir wollen hier was Neues machen.",{"text":57282,"start":35449,"end":35473},"Wir haben hier 'n Mobile First Produkt.",{"text":57284,"start":35477,"end":35519},"Wir wollen wir haben hier ein Produkt, das wir eigentlich immer mehr mit KI ausstatten.",{"text":57286,"start":35523,"end":35565},"Wir wollen auch gleichzeitig einfach wirklich, wirklich schnell hier sein, Continuous Deployment.",{"sentences":57288,"speaker":842,"num_words":56492,"start":35565,"end":35710},[57289,57291],{"text":57290,"start":35565,"end":35671},"Wir wollen mehrmals am Tag releasen, so wie es eben Sinn ergibt und das wollen wir sowohl nach innen als auch nach außen sichtbar machen, dass dass hier noch mal anders gefahren wird auch.",{"text":57292,"start":35671,"end":35710},"Dass es hier eben auch keinen Rhythmus von außen gibt, der uns etwas diktiert.",{"sentences":57294,"speaker":149,"num_words":57302,"start":35713,"end":36102},[57295,57296,57298,57300],{"text":27215,"start":35713,"end":35714},{"text":57297,"start":35718,"end":35751},"Und wie habt ihr diese diese Trennung für euch intern geschaffen?",{"text":57299,"start":35751,"end":35765},"Wie scharf war das?",{"text":57301,"start":35765,"end":36102},"Habt ihr da ein komplett neues Team für eingestellt, vielleicht auch mal bisschen frisches Blut, frisches Mindset reinzukriegen oder habt ihr aus den bestehenden Produkt Teams son bisschen geräubert und gesagt, so, ah, der der würde sich sehr gut da vereignen, hier und der Kollege da drüben doch bestimmt auch und die Kollegin da hinten, die nehmen wir auch noch mit und überall son bisschen was mitgenommen und dann gesagt, okay, das ist jetzt hier euer Raum, euer Stockwerk, euer keine Ahnung was und da könnt ihr schalten und walten, wo ihr wollt oder oder wie wie viel Trennschärfe ist da?",117,{"sentences":57304,"speaker":842,"num_words":55839,"start":36105,"end":36347},[57305,57307,57309,57311,57313],{"text":57306,"start":36105,"end":36114},"Es war Letzteres.",{"text":57308,"start":36118,"end":36144},"Also wir haben kein neues Team eingestellt, absolut nicht.",{"text":57310,"start":36147,"end":36175},"Es war eher, dass wir dass wir geräubert haben.",{"text":57312,"start":36175,"end":36274},"Also ich muss auch sagen, da hab ich son bisschen die die die Macht meines Amtes genutzt und hab gesagt, ich möchte jetzt gern die Besten hier in diesem Raum versammeln.",{"text":57314,"start":36278,"end":36347},"Und ihr habt jetzt auch die Freiheit, aber entsprechend viel Wir erwarten jetzt auch viel, wir haben besonderen Anspruch an dieses Produkt.",{"sentences":57316,"speaker":842,"num_words":55705,"start":36350,"end":36575},[57317,57319,57321,57323],{"text":57318,"start":36350,"end":36434},"Und dementsprechend haben wir gesagt, wir bauen hier die Besten der Besten aus, auch was nicht heißt, dass es dass es noch viele weitere von diesen Leuten gibt.",{"text":57320,"start":36434,"end":36464},"Aber wir sind bewusst auch etwas andere Wege gegangen, ja.",{"text":57322,"start":36467,"end":36544},"Zum Beispiel, wir haben bewusst gesagt, okay, wer bei Bilbop mitarbeiten möchte, wir machen jetzt das, was eigentlich heute überhaupt nicht mehr in ist.",{"text":57324,"start":36547,"end":36575},"Wir machen 4 Tage Präsenz, weil wir gesagt haben,",{"sentences":57326,"speaker":149,"num_words":128,"start":36578,"end":36579},[57327],{"text":366,"start":36578,"end":36579},{"sentences":57329,"speaker":842,"num_words":57340,"start":36579,"end":36722},[57330,57332,57334,57336,57338],{"text":57331,"start":36579,"end":36594},"haben hier 'n neues Produkt.",{"text":57333,"start":36594,"end":36608},"Es ist viel Konzeptionsarbeit.",{"text":57335,"start":36612,"end":36641},"Es wird davon leben, dass die Leute viel miteinander kommunizieren.",{"text":57337,"start":36645,"end":36668},"Wir wollen wir wollen Raum haben mit Whiteboard.",{"text":57339,"start":36672,"end":36722},"Und dieses Whiteboard sollen sich sollen sich die Leute versammeln und gemeinsam schreiben und malen können.",43,{"sentences":57342,"speaker":842,"num_words":56480,"start":36725,"end":36914},[57343,57345,57347,57349,57351],{"text":57344,"start":36725,"end":36757},"Und dafür haben wir gesagt, brauchen wir grade jetzt eine Präsenzkultur.",{"text":57346,"start":36761,"end":36787},"Und damit war das Team auch nicht für jedermann.",{"text":57348,"start":36791,"end":36816},"Nicht jeder wollte das, das war auch völlig okay.",{"text":57350,"start":36820,"end":36885},"Aber die die, die wollten, die haben's aus Überzeugung getan, glaube ich, Klammer auf, Klammer zu, ich denke schon.",{"text":57352,"start":36889,"end":36914},"Und ich bin sehr froh, dass wir es haben.",{"sentences":57354,"speaker":842,"num_words":56191,"start":36916,"end":37092},[57355,57357,57359,57361],{"text":57356,"start":36916,"end":36949},"Es ist eine große Geschwindigkeit, die wir dort im Team fahren.",{"text":57358,"start":36949,"end":36966},"Es macht auch viel, viel Spaß.",{"text":57360,"start":36966,"end":37059},"Deswegen also ich bin gerne genau in diesem Team Hands on und ich denke, wir haben auch ja 'n hohes Niveau in allen Positionen, die wir dort haben.",{"text":57362,"start":37059,"end":37092},"Und wenn die dann zusammenkommt, dann entsteht auch wirklich was Gutes.",{"sentences":57364,"speaker":149,"num_words":57367,"start":37095,"end":37136},[57365],{"text":57366,"start":37095,"end":37136},"Da auch noch mal zum Verständnis, wie groß ist das BillBob Team so?",13,{"sentences":57369,"speaker":842,"num_words":55928,"start":37138,"end":37200},[57370,57372,57374],{"text":57371,"start":37138,"end":37158},"Viel kleiner, als die meisten Leute denken.",{"text":57373,"start":37161,"end":37173},"Jetzt muss ich durchzählen.",{"text":57375,"start":37177,"end":37200},"Du siehst, ich kann auch durchzählen 6 Leute.",{"sentences":57377,"speaker":149,"num_words":55630,"start":37203,"end":37218},[57378],{"text":57379,"start":37203,"end":37218},"Ah, ich hab grad hier,",{"sentences":57381,"speaker":128,"num_words":55630,"start":37218,"end":37235},[57382],{"text":57383,"start":37218,"end":37235},"ich hab grad 6 gezeigt",{"sentences":57385,"speaker":149,"num_words":57392,"start":37235,"end":37291},[57386,57388,57390],{"text":57387,"start":37235,"end":37246},"so unterm Tisch.",{"text":57389,"start":37246,"end":37256},"Nein, nein, 60.",{"text":57391,"start":37260,"end":37291},"Nee, 5 hatte ich hier gerade so unterm unterm Tisch.",16,{"sentences":57394,"speaker":842,"num_words":56480,"start":37291,"end":37485},[57395,57397,57399,57401],{"text":57396,"start":37291,"end":37336},"Es sind 6, aber wir haben natürlich auch viele Hilfe vom Rest des Unternehmens.",{"text":57398,"start":37336,"end":37365},"Wie gesagt, wir müssen uns keine Rechenzentren kümmern.",{"text":57400,"start":37371,"end":37422},"US, muss man sagen, gehört auch nicht dazu, sondern ist ist Teil unseres unseres eigenen US Teams.",{"text":57402,"start":37422,"end":37485},"Und so haben wir eben noch noch viel Unterstützung und viele Funktionen, die eben ansonsten unternehmensweit angesiedelt sind.",{"sentences":57404,"speaker":128,"num_words":57050,"start":37488,"end":37542},[57405],{"text":57406,"start":37488,"end":37542},"Das halten wir zum Verständnis, welche Profession bei den 6 Leuten, also wie viel sind Entwickler designen?",{"sentences":57408,"speaker":842,"num_words":56098,"start":37542,"end":37565},[57409],{"text":57410,"start":37542,"end":37565},"Die Entwickler ein Produktmanagement, ein Design.",{"sentences":57412,"speaker":149,"num_words":56178,"start":37569,"end":37606},[57413,57414,57415,57417],{"text":8185,"start":37569,"end":37570},{"text":413,"start":37574,"end":37575},{"text":57416,"start":37575,"end":37598},"Das klingt ähnlich wie bei uns eigentlich.",{"text":57418,"start":37598,"end":37606},"Das klingt",{"sentences":57420,"speaker":128,"num_words":57050,"start":37606,"end":37663},[57421,57423,57425],{"text":57422,"start":37606,"end":37616},"nicht für uns.",{"text":57424,"start":37616,"end":37659},"Sehr gute Teamgrößen halten wir auch für sehr sinnvoll, viel schaffen zu können.",{"text":413,"start":37662,"end":37663},{"sentences":57427,"speaker":149,"num_words":55649,"start":37666,"end":37816},[57428,57430],{"text":57429,"start":37666,"end":37780},"Und dieser dieser Modus, den ihr da jetzt gefunden habt, ist das was, wo ihr sagt, den den ziehen wir jetzt durch oder das das ist jetzt das Billbob Modell und das das bleibt quasi so.",{"text":57431,"start":37780,"end":37816},"Vielleicht wird es vielleicht größer, wenn das Produkt auch größer wird.",{"sentences":57433,"speaker":842,"num_words":55671,"start":37820,"end":37848},[57434,57436],{"text":57435,"start":37820,"end":37840},"Ja, bis zu 500000000 a yeah.",{"text":57437,"start":37840,"end":37848},"Nein, Scherz.",{"sentences":57439,"speaker":149,"num_words":55839,"start":37848,"end":38094},[57440,57441,57443],{"text":413,"start":37848,"end":37852},{"text":57442,"start":37856,"end":37883},"Also so lang, bis es dann komplett ausgegliedert wird.",{"text":57444,"start":37886,"end":38094},"Oder ist das eher so wie son Inkubator und irgendwann sagt er, na ja, jetzt ist hat das Produkt vielleicht eine gewisse Reife erreicht, eine gewisse Größe, eine gewisse Stabilität und wir holen das quasi zurück nach Hause in Anführungszeichen und dann wird es so ganz normal eingegliedert und verhält sich dann auch mehr so wie der Rest der der Bullteams und der Produkte?",{"sentences":57446,"speaker":842,"num_words":57457,"start":38098,"end":38419},[57447,57449,57451,57453,57455],{"text":57448,"start":38098,"end":38128},"Die Wahrheit liegt wird wahrscheinlich in der Mitte liegen.",{"text":57450,"start":38128,"end":38174},"Also das das Ziel ist schon, wir wollen so lang wie möglich agil bleiben.",{"text":57452,"start":38174,"end":38236},"Wir wollen grundsätzlich immer diese Philosophie fahren, dass wir sagen, lieber weniger Leute, dafür die Besten mit dabei.",{"text":57454,"start":38236,"end":38263},"Das ist das ist etwas, was wir durchziehen wollen.",{"text":57456,"start":38266,"end":38419},"Und trotzdem, wenn das Produkt wächst, wenn auch vielleicht die Integration damit dazu den anderen Produkten noch mal stärker ist, egal ob das auf 'ner Produktseite oder auf 'ner Marketingseite, dann wird es sicherlich noch mal näher ranrücken an, ich sag mal, die Standardprozesse im Haus.",96,{"sentences":57459,"speaker":842,"num_words":57466,"start":38419,"end":38702},[57460,57462,57464],{"text":57461,"start":38419,"end":38525},"Und trotzdem ist es immer das Ziel, dass wir, wenn wir ein solches Produkt reinholen, dass das die anderen nach vorne bringt und die Prozesse, die die fahren, die anderen nach vorne bringt.",{"text":57463,"start":38525,"end":38573},"Nicht, dass es dann auf einmal unter sone sone Decke des Standards kommt, ja.",{"text":57465,"start":38573,"end":38702},"Sondern das ist immer das Ziel, dass egal, wo wir Newcomer haben, egal, ob wir neue Teammitglieder haben, ob wir irgendwo 'n neues Produkt mit dabei haben, ja, dass die eigentlich noch mal eine Verbesserung durchführen beim ganzen Rest.",86,{"sentences":57468,"speaker":149,"num_words":57302,"start":38706,"end":39106},[57469,57471,57473,57475,57477],{"text":57470,"start":38706,"end":38767},"Jetzt hast Du schon ganz viele Stellen genannt, wo das ja vorteilhaft war, diese diese Arbeitsweise zu wählen.",{"text":57472,"start":38767,"end":38817},"Ich hab da 2 Fragen zu, die vielleicht auch son bisschen auf die Nachteile zielen.",{"text":57474,"start":38821,"end":38981},"Das eine ist, wenn man jetzt grade, wie Du gesagt hast, eher so aus dem bestehenden Personal räubert und sich da so die die Leute rauspickt, auch wenn man die besten oder die Richtigsten dafür findet, die sind ja doch wahrscheinlich eher noch ein anderes Arbeiten gewohnt.",{"text":57476,"start":38981,"end":39048},"Ich mein das gar nicht wertend, aber halt, ne, mit 500 anderen zusammenarbeitet man halt anders zusammen als mit 5 anderen.",{"text":57478,"start":39052,"end":39106},"Habt ihr da sone gewisse Startphase gehabt, auch so so so son Mindsetwechsel irgendwie zu haben?",{"sentences":57480,"speaker":149,"num_words":55791,"start":39106,"end":39191},[57481],{"text":57482,"start":39106,"end":39191},"Sagen okay, das machen wir jetzt anders und hier überlegen wir uns 'n anderen, schlankeren Prozess, nicht per Default so in diese Standardmuster zurückzufallen?",{"sentences":57484,"speaker":842,"num_words":57494,"start":39195,"end":39576},[57485,57486,57488,57490,57492],{"text":57088,"start":39195,"end":39200},{"text":57487,"start":39200,"end":39401},"Also wir haben anfangs auch 'n Stück weit anders gearbeitet, aber nicht so sehr, weil wir gesagt haben, wir wollen jetzt anders sein, es anders sein zu wählen, sondern weil wir gesagt haben, hey, es ergibt jetzt keinen Sinn, wenn wir jetzt von Anfang an irgendwie 'n full flatcht Scrum Prozess fahren, wenn wir noch keine Ahnung haben, wie die Userstory aussieht oder so.",{"text":57489,"start":39404,"end":39437},"Sondern es war tatsächlich ein Hand in Hand arbeiten im Prinzip.",{"text":57491,"start":39441,"end":39560},"Du kannst das so vorstellen, Produktmanagement und Design waren irgendwie so die Schneefräse und die Entwickler sind wie die sind wie der Lkw direkt hinter 5 Meter da hinterhergefahren durch die durch dieselbe Schneise.",{"text":57493,"start":39564,"end":39576},"So liefen die eher zusammen.",116,{"sentences":57496,"speaker":149,"num_words":57505,"start":39578,"end":39890},[57497,57499,57501,57503],{"text":57498,"start":39578,"end":39752},"Gab's da auch son paar Sachen, wo ihr gesagt habt, okay, dieses oder jenes wollen wir auf alle Fälle jetzt mal anders machen und wir wollten schon immer mal, weiß es nicht, nicht Scrum ausprobieren, sondern 'n anderes Lines Modell oder wir wollten schon immer mal 'n anderen Tech Stack und jetzt haben wir die Chance.",{"text":57500,"start":39752,"end":39840},"Also was was ehrlicherweise ja auch nicht immer son eine reine Businessentscheidung ist, sondern einfach auch manchmal so ausm Bauch raus, nicht einfach mal was anderes machen.",{"text":57502,"start":39840,"end":39874},"So, jetzt haben wir die Chance, mal was anderes zu probieren.",{"text":57504,"start":39878,"end":39890},"Gab's so Momente auch?",98,{"sentences":57507,"speaker":842,"num_words":57466,"start":39893,"end":40176},[57508,57509,57511,57513,57515],{"text":57088,"start":39893,"end":39898},{"text":57510,"start":39898,"end":39975},"Also ich mein, wie Du sagst, wir wir haben auf der grünen Wiese angefangen und das hat uns natürlich jede Menge Möglichkeiten gegeben.",{"text":57512,"start":39979,"end":40072},"Wir haben uns son bisschen, ich hab das damals sogenannte im Alliance Meeting, wir haben uns son bisschen, ist son bisschen das Best of Album der Pool.",{"text":57514,"start":40072,"end":40137},"Also überall, wo wir gesehen haben, dies und jenes hat sich bewährt, egal ob das 'n Prozess ist oder Technologie ist.",{"text":57516,"start":40140,"end":40176},"Das ist dann etwas, das haben wir von Anfang an dort mitnehmen können.",{"sentences":57518,"speaker":128,"num_words":56480,"start":40179,"end":40367},[57519,57521,57523],{"text":57520,"start":40179,"end":40292},"Kannst Du, auch wenn wir ja schon am Anfang gesagt hatten, wir sind jetzt kein CTO Special, trotzdem sagen, was dann die, was ist 'n was ist son Technologiestag bei jetzt zum zum Beispiel Billbob?",{"text":57522,"start":40296,"end":40355},"Also ist seid ihr mit 'nem, ja, Du hast also erst mal, ihr seid nur mobile only, ne.",{"text":57524,"start":40355,"end":40367},"Also es gibt keine",{"sentences":57526,"speaker":842,"num_words":56552,"start":40370,"end":40483},[57527,57529,57531,57533],{"text":57528,"start":40370,"end":40384},"Nein, wir sind mobile first.",{"text":57530,"start":40384,"end":40402},"Das war zum Beispiel ein Thema.",{"text":57532,"start":40405,"end":40446},"Wir haben wir haben Bilboop einfach, weil wir damit sehr gute Erfahrungen gemacht haben.",{"text":57534,"start":40446,"end":40483},"Wir haben Bilboop als Progress Web App, als PBA aufgebaut.",{"sentences":57536,"speaker":128,"num_words":128,"start":40486,"end":40487},[57537],{"text":40490,"start":40486,"end":40487},{"sentences":57539,"speaker":842,"num_words":56041,"start":40492,"end":40880},[57540,57542,57544,57546,57548],{"text":57541,"start":40492,"end":40593},"Das heißt, wir haben Mobile First immer als Design, aber wir haben im Prinzip den gleichen Code auf allen Geräten, egal ob Web oder in der nativen App oder responsive den Web logischerweise.",{"text":57543,"start":40597,"end":40691},"Das war zum Beispiel etwas, was wir vorher in 'nem anderen Produkt, in dem Fall Finanzflick, durch durchgeführt und durchgesetzt hatten und ausgeführt haben, sehr gute Erfahrungen damit gemacht haben.",{"text":57545,"start":40694,"end":40745},"Es hat einfach dafür gesorgt, der Entwicklungs- und der Pflegeaufwand hinterher ist einfach so viel geringer.",{"text":57547,"start":40745,"end":40786},"Die die Komplexität, die Du zu bedenken hast, ist so viel geringer.",{"text":57549,"start":40786,"end":40880},"Du hast in den Apps, Du hast praktisch nur noch sone Art nativen Rahmen mit sehr begrenzten Aufgaben, so was wie Face ID oder so was, ja.",{"sentences":57551,"speaker":842,"num_words":55844,"start":40880,"end":40981},[57552,57554],{"text":57553,"start":40880,"end":40931},"Die baust Du im Prinzip drum rum und der ganze Rest ist standardisiert und eine Code Base.",{"text":57555,"start":40935,"end":40981},"Ich glaube, andere anders hätten wir es auch mit der Teamkurse überhaupt nicht geschafft.",{"sentences":57557,"speaker":128,"num_words":55839,"start":40984,"end":41233},[57558,57560,57562],{"text":57559,"start":40984,"end":41146},"Ja, weil das ja auch ein, wie wir auch lange vorgegangen sind, auch mit unseren Games, wenn wir sie teilweise vom Web hin ins Nativeportiert haben, dass das auch einfach nur 'n ganz kleiner Webview ist mit 'nem kleinen Rapper und der Rest der des Codes ist gleich.",{"text":57561,"start":41146,"end":41191},"Das hat auf jeden Fall die Vorteile, was Wartbarkeit auf jeden Fall angeht.",{"text":57563,"start":41191,"end":41233},"Man kann mit kleineren Teams sehr viel mehr schaffen, als wenn's verschiedene sind.",{"sentences":57565,"speaker":842,"num_words":128,"start":41233,"end":41236},[57566],{"text":16975,"start":41233,"end":41236},{"sentences":57568,"speaker":149,"num_words":57575,"start":41239,"end":41568},[57569,57571,57573],{"text":57570,"start":41239,"end":41312},"Weil ihr grade beide son bisschen bei der Teamgröße wart, wie ist denn so der Wachstumsplan für Bilbop dann innerhalb von Bool?",{"text":57572,"start":41312,"end":41559},"Wenn ihr jetzt zum Beispiel neue Leute brauchen würde oder wollt, ne, hast grad schon darüber gesprochen, dass das ja immer eine sehr bewusste Entscheidung auch sein sollte, wenn man da mehr Leute dazunimmt, Stellt ihr dann als Billbob ein und kriegt ihr dann Bewerbungen für Billbob oder ist das einfach so, Leute bewerben sich bei Bool und dann landen sie vielleicht bei bei VISO oder vielleicht bei Billbob oder oder wie wie wollt ihr wachsen?",{"text":57574,"start":41563,"end":41568},"Vielleicht auch",100,{"sentences":57577,"speaker":128,"num_words":57245,"start":41568,"end":41657},[57578,57580],{"text":57579,"start":41568,"end":41630},"als Kontext, also kannst Du kurz sagen, ich wir haben gar nicht darüber gesprochen, wie lange es Bilbop schon gibt.",{"text":57581,"start":41630,"end":41657},"Also wie wie wie matcheur ist dieses Produktprojekt?",{"sentences":57583,"speaker":842,"num_words":56067,"start":41661,"end":41936},[57584,57585,57587,57589,57591],{"text":413,"start":41661,"end":41662},{"text":57586,"start":41666,"end":41688},"Also Bilbop ist ist ist noch sehr jung.",{"text":57588,"start":41688,"end":41787},"Ich glaub, die Erste, wer's wohnt, die öffentlich wirklich zugänglich war, die man so ganz, ganz vorsichtig beworben haben und so ganz vorsichtig mal raus in die Welt gesetzt haben.",{"text":57590,"start":41787,"end":41866},"Ich glaube, die war aus 'nem November oder Dezember letzten Jahres, also vielleicht son Dreivierteljahr alt oder so was, die allerersten Anfänge.",{"text":57592,"start":41870,"end":41936},"Zu der zu der Frage, wie wir an dieser Stelle auch recruiten, also jeder weiß schon, auf welches Projekt er kommt.",{"sentences":57594,"speaker":842,"num_words":55839,"start":41936,"end":42187},[57595,57597,57599,57601,57603],{"text":57596,"start":41936,"end":41961},"Jeder Bewerber, das ist auch schon wichtiger.",{"text":57598,"start":41961,"end":42004},"Er wird auch innerhalb, er lernt auch die Leute aus dem Projekt kennen.",{"text":57600,"start":42008,"end":42028},"Der Teamleiter ist Teil des Interviews.",{"text":57602,"start":42032,"end":42170},"Insofern, Du bewirbst dich nicht blind und dann stehst Du stehst Du morgens hier und wir sagen dir, ja, hupserla, Du bist hier oder hupserla, Du bist leider Du bist in meinem Büro oder Du bist im Steuer oder Du bist im Billbob.",{"text":57604,"start":42174,"end":42187},"So ist es nicht, nee.",{"sentences":57606,"speaker":149,"num_words":57367,"start":42191,"end":42228},[57607],{"text":57608,"start":42191,"end":42228},"Aber das heißt, es bewerben sich schon alle erst mal bei Bool sozusagen?",{"sentences":57610,"speaker":842,"num_words":56787,"start":42232,"end":42498},[57611,57613],{"text":57612,"start":42232,"end":42327},"Ja gut, Du Du bewirbst dich bei Bool als Unternehmen, aber es ist immer klar, für welches Produkte Du dich bewirbst oder für welches für welches Produkt die Stelle ist.",{"text":57614,"start":42330,"end":42498},"Das meine ich, deswegen Du sprichst ja auch mit deinen zukünftigen Kollegen, lernst die auch kennen und lernst dann auch das Produkt kennen, lernst auch die Technologien kennen beziehungsweise hast dir in der Regel auch ein Skill Set, der genau zu den benötigten Skill Set und Technologien im Produkt passt.",{"sentences":57616,"speaker":149,"num_words":57623,"start":42501,"end":42588},[57617,57619,57621],{"text":57618,"start":42501,"end":42528},"Na, ich seh's dir grade auf der Website.",{"text":57620,"start":42528,"end":42581},"Ihr beschreibt schon sehr ausführlich, was die Leute dann eigentlich machen sollen am Ende des Tages.",{"text":57622,"start":42581,"end":42588},"Was interessant?",26,{"sentences":57625,"speaker":842,"num_words":56303,"start":42588,"end":42798},[57626,57628,57630,57632,57634],{"text":57627,"start":42588,"end":42633},"Aber was auch wichtig ist, wir haben tatsächlich intern auch auch Bewegung drin.",{"text":57629,"start":42636,"end":42712},"Das heißt, Leute, die vorher auf auf 'nem Produkt Finanzpflicht waren, sind vielleicht morgen auf 'nem auf 'nem Produkt, mein Verein oder so was.",{"text":57631,"start":42715,"end":42726},"Das ist absolut der Fall.",{"text":57633,"start":42726,"end":42785},"Es ist auch für uns eine gute gute Möglichkeit, den Leuten auch Weiterentwicklung zu ermöglichen, in andere Technologien reinzuschauen.",{"text":57635,"start":42789,"end":42798},"Natürlich auch Aufstiegsmöglichkeiten.",{"sentences":57637,"speaker":842,"num_words":57644,"start":42802,"end":42959},[57638,57640,57642],{"text":57639,"start":42802,"end":42842},"Ja, in 'nem kleinen Team hast Du ja eben auch nicht unendlich viele Aufstiegsmöglichkeiten.",{"text":57641,"start":42845,"end":42933},"Da kommt es uns einfach zu Pass und es kommt auch unseren Mitarbeitern immer zu Pass, dass Du eben die Möglichkeit hast, intern sehr viele verschiedene Aufgaben wahrzunehmen.",{"text":57643,"start":42937,"end":42959},"Nicht nur Produkte eben, sondern auch Infrastruktur, klar.",50,{"sentences":57646,"speaker":128,"num_words":56552,"start":42962,"end":43077},[57647,57649],{"text":57648,"start":42962,"end":43055},"Aber wie hast Du denn, weil weil jetzt Du Jan, Du bist ja jetzt schon damit implizit davon ausgegangen, dass für BillBob Leute gesucht werden, Leute eingestellt werden.",{"text":57650,"start":43055,"end":43077},"Ich hatte, glaub ich, die eine Frage",{"sentences":57652,"speaker":149,"num_words":56497,"start":43080,"end":43110},[57653],{"text":57654,"start":43080,"end":43110},"Glaub einfach fest an den Erfolg von dem Produkt, Fabi.",{"sentences":57656,"speaker":128,"num_words":55952,"start":43110,"end":43521},[57657,57659,57661,57663,57665],{"text":57658,"start":43110,"end":43161},"Das hat ja, aber das hat ja, das 1 der mit dem anderen nix zu tun.",{"text":57660,"start":43161,"end":43199},"Das wär nämlich meine Frage, ob die es auch gut abzielt.",{"text":57662,"start":43203,"end":43392},"So, also ist es denn, weil Du ganz vorne am Anfang im Gespräch hast Du gemeint, ja, kennt ja jede die Situation, ich weiß gar nicht, in welchem Kontext Du es gesagt hattest Du, aber man hat ja immer man hat immer mehr zu tun, hat am liebsten immer mehr Leute, die noch irgendwie sozusagen noch Dinge irgendwie erledigen können so.",{"text":57664,"start":43392,"end":43433},"Und mich würde mal interessieren, hast Du bei Bill Bob dieses Gefühl?",{"text":57666,"start":43433,"end":43521},"Oder hast Du dieses Gefühl, hey, da sitzen jetzt, da sitzt ein Team von 6 Leuten, mit denen werden wir sehr lange sehr gut und schnell entwickeln können.",{"sentences":57668,"speaker":128,"num_words":57677,"start":43521,"end":43972},[57669,57671,57673,57675],{"text":57670,"start":43521,"end":43738},"Weil natürlich immer die Problematik ist, sobald Du mit 2, sobald Du mit Scrum entwickelst, sobald Du mit Skate machst und irgendwie 2 Teams hast, so, kommt ja so viel Kommunikationsoberhead mit rein, dass Du ja es eine sehr lange Zeit gibt, wo Du sagen kannst, hey, mit 6 Leuten werd ich so viel schaffen können, sodass es echt die Frage ist, macht's überhaupt Sinn?",{"text":57672,"start":43742,"end":43798},"Also klar, 2, 3 kriegt man vielleicht noch unter, aber irgendwann will's ja an die Grenze kommen so.",{"text":57674,"start":43801,"end":43895},"Wann krieg ich mehr Produktivität rein und wann muss ich wirklich eine ganze Ecke mehr Leute drauf geben, dass ich dieses Produktivitätseinbuße durch Kommunikationsoberhead überhaupt wieder drin hab?",{"text":57676,"start":43895,"end":43972},"Also die Frage, ist überhaupt der da, mittelfristig als Leute einzustellen oder siehst Du dieses Modell längerfristig so für Billbob, was die Teamgröße angeht?",135,{"sentences":57679,"speaker":842,"num_words":57690,"start":43976,"end":44325},[57680,57682,57684,57686,57688],{"text":57681,"start":43976,"end":44036},"Ja, ich glaub, das ist 'n Punkt, der hat sich jetzt grade in den letzten ein, 2 Jahren deutlich geändert.",{"text":57683,"start":44036,"end":44079},"Du siehst Du siehst natürlich heute die ganzen die ganzen AI Tools draußen.",{"text":57685,"start":44079,"end":44185},"Wir haben nach dem Motto, wir haben ein mit einem Vollzeit und 1 einem Azubi haben wir innerhalb von anderthalb Wochen auf 100000000 AR AR AR AR oder so was, ja.",{"text":57687,"start":44188,"end":44306},"Du siehst halt diese diese ganzen Stories von diesen extrem kleinen Teams, wo ich ehrlich gesagt vorsichtig bin, wo ich mir denke, okay, Du hast eine 100000000 ARA Unternehmen und ihr seid 20, wenn das wirklich stimmt, ja.",{"text":57689,"start":44310,"end":44325},"Gesund kann das nicht sein.",107,{"sentences":57692,"speaker":842,"num_words":56127,"start":44325,"end":44675},[57693,57695,57697,57699,57701],{"text":57694,"start":44325,"end":44418},"Angenommen, ihr habt irgendwann mal ein Problem, wie wollt ihr mit 20 Leuten diese riesige Menge an Kunden, die ihr habt, wie wollt ihr denen ordentlich noch Support geben?",{"text":57696,"start":44418,"end":44445},"Wie wollt ihr die noch ordentlich unterstützen oder so?",{"text":57698,"start":44445,"end":44496},"Wenn irgendwann mal was nicht ganz nach Plan geht, also das halt ich nicht für für gesund.",{"text":57700,"start":44496,"end":44551},"Aber auf der anderen Seite glaube ich, dass Du heute mit weniger Leuten sehr viel weiterkommst als früher.",{"text":57702,"start":44554,"end":44675},"Die Produktivität jedes Einzelnen, nicht nur nicht nur 1 Entwicklers, sondern eben auch 1 Designers und 1 Produktmanagers beginnt ja jetzt schon zu steigen und wird sicherlich auch noch mal steigen jetzt in den nächsten in den nächsten Jahren.",{"sentences":57704,"speaker":842,"num_words":57715,"start":44675,"end":45002},[57705,57707,57709,57711,57713],{"text":57706,"start":44675,"end":44735},"Das heißt, ich glaub, Du kannst sehr viel mehr bewegen mit weniger Leuten, als das noch vor einiger Zeit möglich war.",{"text":57708,"start":44735,"end":44839},"Und ich bin sehr froh über diese Entwicklung, gar nicht mehr so sehr irgendwie aus Kosten oder aus betriebswirtschaftlichen Gründen, sondern eben, wie Du sagst, es es hält die Komplexität gering, ja?",{"text":57710,"start":44842,"end":44867},"Du hast weniger Wege, wenig Kommunikationswege, weniger Ansprechpartner.",{"text":57712,"start":44871,"end":44976},"Aber irgendwann wird sicherlich ein Punkt kommen, da wo's da musst Du sagen, okay, es war bis hierhin sinnvoll und jetzt fangen wir an, uns selber zu beschränken und jetzt müssen wir auch mehr Leute aufbauen.",{"text":57714,"start":44976,"end":45002},"Jetzt muss es vielleicht 'n zweites Entwicklungsteam sein.",105,{"sentences":57717,"speaker":842,"num_words":56695,"start":45005,"end":45082},[57718],{"text":57719,"start":45005,"end":45082},"Und ich glaube, es ist genauso schädlich, wenn Du diesen Punkt ignorierst, der guten alten Zeitenbildung und des wohllieben Gefühls das Miteinanderwägen.",{"sentences":57721,"speaker":128,"num_words":56492,"start":45086,"end":45245},[57722,57724],{"text":57723,"start":45086,"end":45181},"Und aber versteh ich's jetzt richtig, wenn ich das zwischen den Zeilen rausstehe, dass Du sagst, dieses Setup, wie ihr's jetzt habt, ist überhaupt erst möglich geworden durch AI?",{"text":57725,"start":45181,"end":45245},"Würdest Du sagen, vor 3 Jahren hättest Du in dem Set-up noch 'n Billbob noch nicht so entwickeln können?",{"sentences":57727,"speaker":842,"num_words":56115,"start":45245,"end":45462},[57728,57730,57732,57734,57736],{"text":57729,"start":45245,"end":45271},"Nee, nee, das nee, nee, so weit nee.",{"text":57731,"start":45271,"end":45289},"So weit würd ich nicht gehen.",{"text":57733,"start":45292,"end":45349},"Du hättest Du kannst sicher immer schon, Du konntest auch schon vor 10 Jahren mit 'nem sechsterteam weit kommen.",{"text":57735,"start":45353,"end":45439},"Ich glaube nur, dieses sechster Team ist heute jetzt schon produktiver oder hat zumindest die Möglichkeiten, produktiver zu sein, als das noch vor wenigen Jahren der Fall sein war.",{"text":57737,"start":45439,"end":45462},"Und ich glaube, das wird noch weiter zunehmen.",{"sentences":57739,"speaker":842,"num_words":56492,"start":45466,"end":45614},[57740],{"text":57741,"start":45466,"end":45614},"Ich glaube, dank TUMING, dank AI wird auch nächstes Jahr werden wir nächstes oder übernächstes Jahr hier sitzen und sagen, okay, wir sind noch mal produktiver geworden und wir kommen insofern als nächstes Team jetzt noch mal weiter, als es vor einigen Jahren noch der Fall gewesen wäre.",{"sentences":57743,"speaker":149,"num_words":55783,"start":45618,"end":45630},[57744],{"text":57745,"start":45618,"end":45630},"Ich müsste aber auch",{"sentences":57747,"speaker":128,"num_words":57392,"start":45630,"end":45689},[57748,57750],{"text":57749,"start":45630,"end":45673},"später die Frage sozusagen stellen, wann ihr eskaliert, weil ihr länger Genau.",{"text":57751,"start":45676,"end":45689},"Die Produktivität hochhäuten könnt.",{"sentences":57753,"speaker":842,"num_words":55778,"start":45689,"end":45756},[57754,57755],{"text":16975,"start":45689,"end":45693},{"text":57756,"start":45693,"end":45756},"Aber dass Du mit dem Sechster Team gut starrtest und gut weit kommen kannst, das war sicherlich schon immer so.",{"sentences":57758,"speaker":149,"num_words":55839,"start":45759,"end":46013},[57759,57761,57762,57763,57765],{"text":57760,"start":45759,"end":45847},"Ja, aber ich glaube, dieser Punkt mit 6 Leute tragen dich heute einfach, weiß nicht, doppelt fünfmal so lange wie früher, das ist, glaub ich, der entscheidende Unterschied.",{"text":413,"start":45847,"end":45851},{"text":23516,"start":45851,"end":45855},{"text":57764,"start":45858,"end":45989},"Ich würd gern den den BillBob Kreis schließen, so, weil Du vorhin gesagt hast, wenn man so ein ein Start-up, ein unabhängiges Produktteam wieder zurückführen würde, würde man das nur machen, wenn es alle anderen auch weiterbringt, ja.",{"text":57766,"start":45993,"end":46013},"Wie könnte denn son Szenario aussehen?",{"sentences":57768,"speaker":149,"num_words":55625,"start":46013,"end":46127},[57769,57771,57773],{"text":57770,"start":46013,"end":46034},"Hattet ihr so was schon mal?",{"text":57772,"start":46034,"end":46067},"Habt ihr da Kriterien für, was ihr euch wünschen?",{"text":57774,"start":46071,"end":46127},"Was könnte eine Bereicherung sein, die ein ein Billbob oder vergleichbare Projekte zurück zum großen Bool bringen?",{"sentences":57776,"speaker":842,"num_words":56326,"start":46131,"end":46347},[57777,57778,57780,57782,57784],{"text":413,"start":46131,"end":46132},{"text":57779,"start":46136,"end":46151},"Das kann auf jeder Ebene sein.",{"text":57781,"start":46151,"end":46246},"Aber jetzt nehmen wir mal Themen wie wie AI Funktionalität, wo wir ja auch bewusst ja bei Willwolf sagen, hey, auch hier können wir noch mal Bayer agieren.",{"text":57783,"start":46250,"end":46286},"Hier müssen wir nicht unbedingt in unserem On Preme AI Stack unterwegs sein.",{"text":57785,"start":46286,"end":46347},"Hier können wir irgendwie an irgend 'n Public LLM gehen oder wegen an 5 oder oder 10, ja.",{"sentences":57787,"speaker":842,"num_words":57494,"start":46350,"end":46714},[57788,57790,57792,57794,57796],{"text":57789,"start":46350,"end":46383},"Grade das, was grade möglich ist und was uns am weitesten bringt.",{"text":57791,"start":46386,"end":46431},"Diese Erfahrung, die wir haben, das ist zum Beispiel etwas, was Du wieder mit zurückbringen kannst, ja.",{"text":57793,"start":46434,"end":46534},"Wo andere vielleicht auch sagen, hey, wir haben bisher uns eben, kehrt, wenn jetzt am Anfang, immer als diejenigen verkauft, die ausschließlich und immer alles auf den eigenen Rechenzentren in Deutschland hosten.",{"text":57795,"start":46538,"end":46662},"Wo wir jetzt sagen können, hey, ja, aber hier hast Du vielleicht eine Möglichkeit gefunden, dass die wichtigen Sachen immer noch hier bleiben, Du aber trotzdem durch Pseudonyme, pseudonymisierte Daten oder was auch immer andere Möglichkeiten noch mal nutzen kannst.",{"text":57797,"start":46662,"end":46714},"Und wir haben's dir vorgemacht und schau mal, es funktioniert und die Kundenakzeptanz ist da.",{"sentences":57799,"speaker":842,"num_words":57690,"start":46717,"end":47070},[57800,57802,57804,57806,57808],{"text":57801,"start":46717,"end":46750},"Dann lass es uns jetzt auch in größerer Skalierung machen.",{"text":57803,"start":46754,"end":46808},"Selbes natürlich dann für Prozesse, für die Art und Weise, wie Teams miteinander arbeiten et cetera et cetera.",{"text":57805,"start":46808,"end":46910},"Ich glaube, Du kannst immer, wenn Du 'n junges Team hast, das dich irgendwo bewährt hast und 'n junges Projekt, 'n junges Produkt, ich glaube, das hat immer den großen Vieh was zu geben.",{"text":57807,"start":46910,"end":46939},"Aber das auch mal zu sagen, umgekehrt ganz genauso.",{"text":57809,"start":46943,"end":47070},"Wir sind grade jetzt bei Billwob in der Phase, wo wir wo wir eben auch viel Buchhaltungsfunktionalität einbauen, was man nach außen noch nicht sehen kann, denn es ist immer etwas ungünstig, sone Viertelbuchhaltung zu releasen.",{"sentences":57811,"speaker":842,"num_words":57045,"start":47074,"end":47401},[57812,57814,57816,57818,57820],{"text":57813,"start":47074,"end":47167},"Wo wir umgekehrt sagen, wir müssen jetzt ganz, ganz viel aus anderen Bereichen, auch aus dem Steuerbereich lernen und sagen, okay, was ist für euch der Anspruch an Qualität?",{"text":57815,"start":47171,"end":47205},"Wo sagt ihr, okay, das müssen wir alles noch mitnehmen, ja?",{"text":57817,"start":47205,"end":47292},"Und diese letzte Wendung, die müssen wir auch noch mal bedenken und dieser Edge Case, den werden wir jetzt auch abbilden, einfach weil das unser Anspruch ist.",{"text":57819,"start":47295,"end":47318},"Und da sind wir grade total in der Lernphase.",{"text":57821,"start":47322,"end":47401},"Jetzt ist jetzt ist der Drehpunkt, wo wo wir dann auch sagen, okay, jetzt mal vorwärts brechen als kleines Inhouse Start-up ist gut und schön.",{"sentences":57823,"speaker":842,"num_words":57367,"start":47405,"end":47441},[57824],{"text":57825,"start":47405,"end":47441},"Aber das bedeutet nicht, dass wir hier oberflächlich sein können, ganz im Gegenteil.",{"sentences":57827,"speaker":149,"num_words":55855,"start":47444,"end":47696},[57828,57829,57831,57833,57835],{"text":27215,"start":47444,"end":47445},{"text":57830,"start":47445,"end":47480},"Du sprichst ja noch 'n interessantes Thema an, nämlich so Qualitätssicherung.",{"text":57832,"start":47484,"end":47524},"Der das Gros der Firmen da draußen betreibt, glaub ich, 2 Arten von Qualitätssicherung.",{"text":57834,"start":47527,"end":47531},"Gar keine.",{"text":57836,"start":47535,"end":47696},"Oder es gibt sone dedizierte Tester Rolle, das sind meistens vielleicht son bisschen eher einstiegsjuniorigere Rollen, die einfach so damit beauftragt werden, ja, klickt halt mal hier son bisschen in unsere App rum und versucht sie mal son bisschen kaputt zu machen und meldet uns, was ihr so für Fehler findet.",{"sentences":57838,"speaker":149,"num_words":57845,"start":47696,"end":47934},[57839,57841,57843],{"text":57840,"start":47696,"end":47759},"Das ist, zumindest in meiner Consultingzeit sind's das so, die steckt, glaub ich, 90 Prozent der Firmen da draußen ab.",{"text":57842,"start":47759,"end":47912},"Bei euch stell ich's mir sehr anders vor, ja, weil ja a eure Testcases wahrscheinlich unglaublich komplex sind und ja allein auch die Validierung von na ja, dem, was da rauskommt und ist das richtig oder nicht, ja auch unglaublich viel Fachwissen und Expertise erfordert.",{"text":57844,"start":47916,"end":47934},"Also wer testet bei euch und wie?",72,{"sentences":57847,"speaker":842,"num_words":57024,"start":47937,"end":48132},[57848,57849,57851,57853,57855],{"text":413,"start":47937,"end":47938},{"text":57850,"start":47942,"end":47989},"Du musst eben, Du hast es Du hast die Frage wie bisschen selbst mit mit beantwortet.",{"text":57852,"start":47993,"end":48066},"Du musst 'n bisschen unterscheiden zwischen denen, was was in Anführungsstrichen eine normale Software QS macht und was vielleicht fachliche Tests sind.",{"text":57854,"start":48069,"end":48101},"Diese fachlichen Tests, die müssen auch tatsächlich von Fachexperten sein.",{"text":57856,"start":48104,"end":48132},"Umgekehrt haben wir aber auch Leute, die beides sind, ja?",{"sentences":57858,"speaker":842,"num_words":56230,"start":48132,"end":48430},[57859,57861,57863,57865],{"text":57860,"start":48132,"end":48198},"Die vielleicht auch schon lange im Unternehmen sind, die auch die Fachlichkeit mittlerweile voll drauf haben, die beides 'n Stück weit erfüllen können.",{"text":57862,"start":48201,"end":48264},"Aber generell musst Du zwischen diesen Rollen unterscheiden oder Du musst zumindest mal klar definieren, wer macht hier die fachlichen Tests?",{"text":57864,"start":48268,"end":48381},"Und wie gesagt, dafür haben wir auch grade grade im Steuerbereich, aber auch auch in der Buch im im Buchhaltungsbereich haben wir Fachleute, die teilweise sogar Steuerberaters sind, die die 'n Fachwirt haben, Steuerfachleute.",{"text":57866,"start":48385,"end":48430},"Also insofern, die Expertise musst Du dann schon an Bord haben, ohne geht es nicht.",{"sentences":57868,"speaker":149,"num_words":57457,"start":48433,"end":48739},[57869,57870,57872,57874,57876],{"text":27215,"start":48433,"end":48434},{"text":57871,"start":48434,"end":48509},"Und wenn wir schon bei dem Thema Qualität sind, Du hast vorhin auch gesagt so, ihr habt auch Fehler gemacht und das gehört dazu, ne.",{"text":57873,"start":48509,"end":48544},"Nur aus Fehlern lernt man ja am Ende des Tages auch.",{"text":57875,"start":48547,"end":48717},"Hast Du so einen Punkt, wo Du zurückdenkst und sagst, boah, in dem Moment, als das aufgekommen oder passiert oder entschieden wurde, hat das megadramatisch gewirkt, aber rückblickend war das eigentlich eine sehr wichtige Lektion oder son Moment, wo man immer wieder dran zurückgehen kann und son bisschen reflektiert was mitnehmen kann.",{"text":57877,"start":48720,"end":48739},"Die schweren Fragen kommen immer am Ende.",{"sentences":57879,"speaker":842,"num_words":57889,"start":48743,"end":49075},[57880,57882,57884,57886,57887],{"text":57881,"start":48743,"end":48769},"Ja, ist eine gute Frage, ich sag mal so.",{"text":57883,"start":48769,"end":48814},"Du sagst ja, aus jedem Fehler lernst Du, aber ich würd's 'n bisschen relativieren.",{"text":57885,"start":48818,"end":48925},"Oft lernst Du ja nicht aus den einzelnen Fehlern, oft lernst Du ja aus mehreren Fehlern, zu verstehen, okay, was ist der grundsätzliche falsche Denkansatz, der diesen der diesen Fehlern gemein war?",{"text":413,"start":48925,"end":48929},{"text":57888,"start":48933,"end":49075},"Beispiel Technologieentscheidungen, wo Du sagst, okay, ich hab mich jetzt für irgend 'n heißen Scheiß entschieden und 2 Jahre später musste ich wieder feststellen, okay, wir waren irgendwie mit den Einzigen, die das genommen haben und wahrscheinlich haben sie auch noch falsch verwendet.",99,{"sentences":57891,"speaker":842,"num_words":56492,"start":49075,"end":49227},[57892,57894,57896],{"text":57893,"start":49075,"end":49094},"So war's überhaupt nicht gedacht, ja.",{"text":57895,"start":49097,"end":49184},"Und wenn Du siehst, das ist irgendwie 'n Stück weit 'n Denkmuster oder dir ist das mehrmals passiert, dann kannst Du ja in Zukunft auch drauf achten, ja.",{"text":57897,"start":49184,"end":49227},"Also insofern, ich würde sagen, aus der aus der Summe der Fehler lernt man.",{"sentences":57899,"speaker":149,"num_words":56158,"start":49231,"end":49238},[57900],{"text":57901,"start":49231,"end":49238},"Das ist schön.",{"sentences":57903,"speaker":128,"num_words":57911,"start":49238,"end":49521},[57904,57905,57907,57909],{"text":413,"start":49238,"end":49241},{"text":57906,"start":49241,"end":49319},"Und gab's denn, weil Du ja so meintest so zu bestimmten Zeiten darf's keine Releases geben zu diesen Abgabezeiten und so weiter.",{"text":57908,"start":49319,"end":49509},"Gab's denn, was diese harten Anforderungen gab mal irgendwelche sehr kopfschmelze Fuck ups auf eurer Seite so, wo Also ich mein, in 40 Jahren kann ja dann doch mal auch was schief gehen, auch wenn man probiert, es nicht nichts falsch zu machen, also irgendwie keine Ahnung, wo am Ende jeder 'n kleinen Fehler in seiner Steuererklärung hatte.",{"text":57910,"start":49509,"end":49521},"Gab's so was mal?",85,{"sentences":57913,"speaker":149,"num_words":56098,"start":49521,"end":49545},[57914],{"text":57915,"start":49521,"end":49545},"Oh Gott, das klingt schon sehr",{"sentences":57917,"speaker":128,"num_words":55630,"start":49545,"end":49563},[57918],{"text":57919,"start":49545,"end":49563},"hart, aber geh ja grade.",{"sentences":57921,"speaker":842,"num_words":57644,"start":49563,"end":49721},[57922,57924,57926,57928,57930],{"text":57923,"start":49563,"end":49571},"Ja, ja.",{"text":57925,"start":49574,"end":49646},"Also in jeder kleinen Fehler hatten wir in der in der Form nicht, aber wir haben zum Beispiel auch jetzt gehabt, wir hatten, wann war's?",{"text":57927,"start":49646,"end":49654},"Ich glaub so.",{"text":57929,"start":49657,"end":49686},"Es waren noch 14 Tage, 3 Wochen vor der Deadline.",{"text":57931,"start":49686,"end":49721},"Da waren wir tatsächlich, ging wir mal eine Viertelstunde offline.",{"sentences":57933,"speaker":842,"num_words":55988,"start":49725,"end":50036},[57934,57936,57938,57940,57942],{"text":57935,"start":49725,"end":49770},"Klingt nicht so furchtbar, aber wenn Du mal bei uns im Servicecenter guckst, ja.",{"text":57937,"start":49773,"end":49845},"Wenn wenn Du mal davon ausgehst, nur ein Prozent der Kunden würde anrufen, wir könnten dieses Volumen auf Monate wahrscheinlich nicht mehr handeln.",{"text":57939,"start":49849,"end":49903},"Und deswegen ist selbst ein Fehler, der nicht alle betrifft, ist bei uns ganz schnell ganz schön schmerzhaft.",{"text":57941,"start":49906,"end":49949},"Also das das war jetzt mal 'n Beispiel gewesen, wo wir alle nur heilfroh waren.",{"text":57943,"start":49952,"end":50036},"Gut, dass es irgendwie am, ich weiß nicht mehr, wann es war, am zwölften Achten passiert ist und nicht am dreißigsten oder noch schlimmer am einunddreißigsten Achten.",{"sentences":57945,"speaker":842,"num_words":57235,"start":50040,"end":50140},[57946],{"text":57947,"start":50040,"end":50140},"Also insofern, die haben wir die haben wir regelmäßig, wir versuchen den den dieser Fehler einfach nur zu verringern und das Risiko zu verringern, dass das eben viele betrifft oder zu falschen Zeiten kommt.",{"sentences":57949,"speaker":128,"num_words":1335,"start":50142,"end":50423},[57950,57952,57954,57956],{"text":57951,"start":50142,"end":50249},"Und nur als Folgefrage noch zu dem, wo Du als Beispiel meintest so, dass man zu früh auf Technologie und neue Technologien gedacht hast, der neueste heiße Scheiß hat's vielleicht auch noch falsch benutzt.",{"text":57953,"start":50249,"end":50275},"Und aus diesen Fehlern in der Summe lernt man.",{"text":57955,"start":50278,"end":50364},"Ist es denn so, dass ihr aus so Technologiefehlentscheidung irgendwie allgemeinere Ableitung getroffen habt, wie es gibt nur noch ein definiertes Text Stack oder irgendwas so?",{"text":57957,"start":50364,"end":50423},"Ist das wirklich ein Fehler, aus dem ihr, aus dem 1 Entscheidung irgendwie resultiert ist, was jetzt so Text Stack angeht?",{"sentences":57959,"speaker":842,"num_words":56467,"start":50426,"end":50670},[57960,57961,57963,57965,57967],{"text":413,"start":50426,"end":50427},{"text":57962,"start":50427,"end":50463},"Also wir haben bewusst kein ganz fest definiertes Text Deck, ja.",{"text":57964,"start":50463,"end":50547},"Jetzt ist es natürlich auch nicht so, dass wir jetzt irgendwie alle 3 Monate eine neue Software launchen, wo wir komplett neue neues Text Deck verwenden können.",{"text":57966,"start":50550,"end":50642},"Aber ich glaube schon, dass wir gelernt haben auf den richtigen Mix aus, hat sich etabliert und ist verbreitet und auch zum Beispiel findest Du Entwickler für zu achten Ja.",{"text":57968,"start":50645,"end":50670},"Versus es wird uns auch in die Zukunft tragen.",{"sentences":57970,"speaker":842,"num_words":57975,"start":50674,"end":50833},[57971,57973],{"text":57972,"start":50674,"end":50786},"Ja, also insofern auch das sind Text Tech Fehlentscheidungen, die wir gehabt haben, dass wir gesagt haben, wir setzen hier auf etwas und hinterher findest Du keine Leute, die die damit umgehen können oder die es lernen müssen.",{"text":57974,"start":50790,"end":50833},"Und das ist fast so tödlich, als wenn's einfach technologisch eine schlechte Entscheidung war.",52,{"sentences":57977,"speaker":149,"num_words":57024,"start":50836,"end":51026},[57978,57980,57982],{"text":57979,"start":50836,"end":50935},"Wir haben das Gespräch angefangen mit wie wie ihr früher mal Microsoft Lizenzen irgendwie verkauft habt und das Wichtigste war, dass ihr die Lizenzen und die Zertifikate sauber aufhebt, ja.",{"text":57981,"start":50938,"end":50988},"Und das ist natürlich zu heute 20, 25 Jahre später 'n ganz schön großer Wandel so, ja.",{"text":57983,"start":50991,"end":51026},"Wie stellst Du dir Bool in den nächsten 20, 25 Jahren vor?",{"sentences":57985,"speaker":842,"num_words":57996,"start":51030,"end":51412},[57986,57988,57990,57992,57994],{"text":57987,"start":51030,"end":51047},"In den nächsten 20, 25 Jahren?",{"text":57989,"start":51047,"end":51118},"Also Jan, ganz ehrlich, ich bin ich bin heilfroh, wenn ich irgendwie eine grobe Vorstellung hab, was vielleicht in den nächsten 2 Jahren passiert.",{"text":57991,"start":51121,"end":51285},"Das ist das ohne Flachs jetzt ist das 'n Zeithorizont, über den denke ich ganz bewusst nicht nach, denn ich sehe einfach, wir sind, das haben wir ja gesagt, ist ja auch das Spannende an unserem Business, wir sind in einem solchen High Velocity Business, das sich das sich ständig wieder verändert.",{"text":57993,"start":51288,"end":51377},"Also die nächsten 20, 25 Jahre kann ich dir kann ich dir nicht sagen, will ich auch nicht in Die lasse ich auch 'n Stück weit bewusst auf mich zukommen.",{"text":57995,"start":51381,"end":51412},"Das ist 'n Weg, den den müssen wir beim Gehen finden.",123,{"sentences":57998,"speaker":842,"num_words":1335,"start":51412,"end":51701},[57999,58001,58003,58005,58007],{"text":58000,"start":51412,"end":51505},"Das haben wir immer schon so gemacht und wir haben als Unternehmen haben wir immer tiefgreifende Veränderungen gehabt, wie zum Beispiel, weil Du grad das Microsoft Geschäft angesprochen hast.",{"text":58002,"start":51505,"end":51550},"Dieses Microsoft Geschäft haben wir irgendwann komplett aufgegeben, weil es einfach faktisch nicht mehr existierte.",{"text":58004,"start":51554,"end":51587},"Das war unser größte unser unsere größte Umsatzsäule damals gewesen.",{"text":58006,"start":51590,"end":51642},"Die haben wir praktisch mit Software, eine eigene Software uns erst mal wieder mühsam neu erarbeiten müssen.",{"text":58008,"start":51645,"end":51701},"Und diese Art von Umbrüchen, die haben wir die haben wir mehrmals gehabt und die wird auch immer wiederkommen.",{"sentences":58010,"speaker":842,"num_words":58015,"start":51705,"end":52001},[58011,58013],{"text":58012,"start":51705,"end":51917},"Und deswegen sehe ich es als als meine Aufgabe, dass dass wir dir auch, dass ich dafür sorge, dass wir die Augen aufhalten, dass wir sehen, wenn ein solcher Umbruch wiederkommt und ich glaube jetzt, dass wir mit dem Thema AI einen solchen Umbruch haben, einfach eine Art und Weise, wie ich Software verwende, wie ich Software bediene, wie ich mit Software umgehe, weil ich von Software erwarte.",{"text":58014,"start":51921,"end":52001},"Und ich ich deswegen bin ich heifroh, wenn man diesen nächsten Umbruch, ja, wenn wenn wir auf dieser Welle surfen und uns diese Welle nicht überrollt.",94,{"sentences":58017,"speaker":149,"num_words":55642,"start":52005,"end":52143},[58018,58020],{"text":58019,"start":52005,"end":52038},"Das ist das ist ja gut, dass das euer euer Fokuspunkt.",{"text":58021,"start":52038,"end":52143},"Das hätte ja auch sein können, dass ihr jetzt doch Angst habt, dass, weiß ich nicht, Friedrich Schmelz die Steuererklärung aufm Bierdeckel durchsetzt und so euer Geschäftsmodell wegbricht auf einmal, ja?",{"sentences":58023,"speaker":842,"num_words":55826,"start":52146,"end":52421},[58024,58026,58028,58030,58032],{"text":58025,"start":52146,"end":52154},"Das kann passieren.",{"text":58027,"start":52154,"end":52182},"Also ehrlich gesagt, ich glaube nicht, dass das passieren wird.",{"text":58029,"start":52185,"end":52239},"Ich glaube, es gibt andere Faktoren, die dazu beitragen können, wie zum Beispiel Personalnot beim Finanzamt oder so.",{"text":58031,"start":52242,"end":52286},"Aber auch das wäre etwas, von dem ich glaube, das würden wir das würden wir überstehen.",{"text":58033,"start":52290,"end":52421},"Dafür haben wir einige dieser Umbrüche hinter uns und ich wäre ich bin guter Hoffnung, dass wir selbst so etwas Fundamentales wegstecken können, ist der falsche Ausdruck, dass wir damit umgehen könnten, ja, dass wir dann neue Wege finden würden.",{"sentences":58035,"speaker":149,"num_words":55671,"start":52425,"end":52449},[58036],{"text":58037,"start":52425,"end":52449},"Das ist, glaub ich, 'n sehr schönes Schlusswort.",{"sentences":58039,"speaker":842,"num_words":128,"start":52453,"end":52454},[58040],{"text":52456,"start":52453,"end":52454},{"sentences":58042,"speaker":149,"num_words":56178,"start":52458,"end":52492},[58043],{"text":58044,"start":52458,"end":52492},"Aber wir sind nicht am Ende, weil, Fabi, was kommt noch?",{"sentences":58046,"speaker":128,"num_words":56158,"start":52495,"end":52502},[58047],{"text":58048,"start":52495,"end":52502},"Die letzte Frage?",{"sentences":58050,"speaker":149,"num_words":56178,"start":52506,"end":52547},[58051,58053,58054,58056],{"text":58052,"start":52506,"end":52512},"Die Schnellfragerunde.",{"text":58052,"start":52516,"end":52521},{"text":58055,"start":52524,"end":52529},"Mehrere Fragen.",{"text":58057,"start":52529,"end":52547},"Ich war schon lange nicht",{"sentences":58059,"speaker":128,"num_words":55630,"start":52547,"end":52567},[58060],{"text":58061,"start":52547,"end":52567},"mehr im City Ost Special.",{"sentences":58063,"speaker":149,"num_words":55671,"start":52570,"end":52596},[58064],{"text":58065,"start":52570,"end":52596},"Fabi müssen eingerostet, aber wir machen das noch.",{"sentences":58067,"speaker":128,"num_words":56416,"start":52596,"end":52681},[58068,58070],{"text":58069,"start":52596,"end":52667},"Ja, wir haben ja eigentlich auch noch, ist sie nicht mehr aktiv, die die letzte Frage in der im City Ost Special?",{"text":58071,"start":52667,"end":52681},"Die haben wir nicht mehr.",{"sentences":58073,"speaker":149,"num_words":842,"start":52685,"end":52691},[58074],{"text":58075,"start":52685,"end":52691},"Wieso was?",{"sentences":58077,"speaker":128,"num_words":56173,"start":52691,"end":52757},[58078],{"text":58079,"start":52691,"end":52757},"Wenn Du einen Tipp an der Demo, was ich geben würdest, eigentlich hatten wir sone Frage auch, weil natürlich Ja,",{"sentences":58081,"speaker":149,"num_words":55783,"start":52757,"end":52772},[58082],{"text":58083,"start":52757,"end":52772},"dann bitte, jetzt stellen.",{"sentences":58085,"speaker":128,"num_words":55928,"start":52775,"end":52833},[58086,58088,58090],{"text":58087,"start":52775,"end":52792},"Das ist immer die letzte Frage.",{"text":58089,"start":52792,"end":52815},"Was was willst Du jetzt zuerst machen?",{"text":58091,"start":52815,"end":52833},"Die Schnellfragerunde oder die letzte Frage?",{"sentences":58093,"speaker":149,"num_words":56497,"start":52833,"end":52870},[58094,58096],{"text":58095,"start":52833,"end":52862},"Jetzt hast Du mich aus sonem Konzept gebracht.",{"text":58097,"start":52862,"end":52870},"Wir machen",{"sentences":58099,"speaker":128,"num_words":56158,"start":52873,"end":52882},[58100],{"text":58101,"start":52873,"end":52882},"Mach deine Schnellfragerunde.",{"sentences":58103,"speaker":149,"num_words":55751,"start":52885,"end":52981},[58104,58106,58108],{"text":58105,"start":52885,"end":52928},"Wir machen die Schnellfragerunde zuerst und dann darfst Du damit den Abschluss machen.",{"text":58107,"start":52928,"end":52966},"Okay, also eine Reihe entweder oder fragen Moritz, ohne lange zu überlegen.",{"text":58109,"start":52966,"end":52981},"Entweder Hund oder Katze?",{"sentences":58111,"speaker":842,"num_words":56158,"start":52985,"end":52994},[58112],{"text":58113,"start":52985,"end":52994},"Hund, ganz klar.",{"sentences":58115,"speaker":149,"num_words":56158,"start":52994,"end":53007},[58116],{"text":58117,"start":52994,"end":53007},"Tee oder Kaffee?",{"sentences":58119,"speaker":842,"num_words":128,"start":53011,"end":53012},[58120],{"text":53015,"start":53011,"end":53012},{"sentences":58122,"speaker":149,"num_words":56158,"start":53018,"end":53027},[58123],{"text":58124,"start":53018,"end":53027},"Auto oder Fahrrad?",{"sentences":58126,"speaker":842,"num_words":56158,"start":53031,"end":53040},[58127],{"text":58128,"start":53031,"end":53040},"Ich lieb beides.",{"sentences":58130,"speaker":149,"num_words":55658,"start":53044,"end":53097},[58131,58133,58135],{"text":58132,"start":53044,"end":53062},"Lassen wir mal ausnahmsweise gelten.",{"text":58134,"start":53067,"end":53082},"Mac oder Windows oder Linux?",{"text":58136,"start":53082,"end":53097},"Keine Ahnung, was ihr benutzt.",{"sentences":58138,"speaker":842,"num_words":56497,"start":53100,"end":53135},[58139,58140,58142],{"text":53104,"start":53100,"end":53101},{"text":58141,"start":53106,"end":53110},"Nicht Windows.",{"text":58143,"start":53113,"end":53135},"Marketing, Design, alle Mac mittlerweile über viele.",{"sentences":58145,"speaker":149,"num_words":56089,"start":53140,"end":53167},[58146,58148,58149],{"text":58147,"start":53140,"end":53150},"IOS oder Android?",{"text":53158,"start":53154,"end":53155},{"text":58150,"start":53160,"end":53167},"Büro oder remote?",{"sentences":58152,"speaker":842,"num_words":128,"start":53171,"end":53172},[58153],{"text":53175,"start":53171,"end":53172},{"sentences":58155,"speaker":149,"num_words":55783,"start":53178,"end":53190},[58156],{"text":58157,"start":53178,"end":53190},"Native Apps oder Web?",{"sentences":58159,"speaker":842,"num_words":58164,"start":53194,"end":53223},[58160,58162],{"text":58161,"start":53194,"end":53208},"Was haben wir eben gesagt?",{"text":58163,"start":53212,"end":53223},"Web mit dem Teamrahmen.",9,{"sentences":58166,"speaker":149,"num_words":55783,"start":53227,"end":53243},[58167,58168],{"text":876,"start":53227,"end":53228},{"text":58169,"start":53233,"end":53243},"Teamwork oder Individualist?",{"sentences":58171,"speaker":842,"num_words":55630,"start":53247,"end":53260},[58172],{"text":58173,"start":53247,"end":53260},"Ich muss mich entscheiden wollen.",{"sentences":58175,"speaker":149,"num_words":56158,"start":53263,"end":53272},[58176],{"text":58177,"start":53263,"end":53272},"Was wär hilfreicher?",{"sentences":58179,"speaker":842,"num_words":55630,"start":53276,"end":53291},[58180],{"text":58181,"start":53276,"end":53291},"Ja, dann nehme ich Teamwork",{"sentences":58183,"speaker":149,"num_words":55866,"start":53295,"end":53340},[58184,58185,58187,58188,58190],{"text":53299,"start":53295,"end":53296},{"text":58186,"start":53296,"end":53308},"Start-up oder Konzern?",{"text":53316,"start":53312,"end":53313},{"text":58189,"start":53318,"end":53333},"Cool, das war die Schnellfragerunde.",{"text":58191,"start":53333,"end":53340},"Das war",{"sentences":58193,"speaker":128,"num_words":57274,"start":53340,"end":53587},[58194,58196,58198,58200],{"text":58195,"start":53340,"end":53352},"die Schnellfragerunde, ja.",{"text":58197,"start":53352,"end":53540},"Und eigentlich hören wir das CTO Special auf immer son bisschen mit, wir fangen wir fingen ja mit klein an, wie war dein Erstkontakt zu Technologie und hören auf, was würdest Du deinem kleinen Ich noch mal ins Ohr flüstern, wenn Du ihm jetzt noch mal einen kleinen Tipp mit deinen dann jetzt Was hatten wir hatten wir gesagt?",{"text":58199,"start":53540,"end":53549},"So knapp 40.",{"text":58201,"start":53549,"end":53587},"Habt ihr's gestimmt oder knapp drunter, so in die in die richtigen?",{"sentences":58203,"speaker":842,"num_words":55630,"start":53591,"end":53610},[58204,58206],{"text":58205,"start":53591,"end":53596},"Ja, nein.",{"text":58207,"start":53599,"end":53610},"Noch 38, genau.",{"sentences":58209,"speaker":128,"num_words":56497,"start":53610,"end":53645},[58210,58212],{"text":58211,"start":53610,"end":53638},"Noch 38, ja, dann alle ungefähr das Ergebnis.",{"text":58213,"start":53638,"end":53645},"So war",{"sentences":58215,"speaker":149,"num_words":55783,"start":53645,"end":53658},[58216],{"text":58217,"start":53645,"end":53658},"ja alle gut dabei.",{"sentences":58219,"speaker":128,"num_words":55965,"start":53660,"end":53813},[58220],{"text":58221,"start":53660,"end":53813},"Wenn Du da noch mal flüstern könntest in das in deinen in das Ohr deines jüngeren und ich so, gib's einen Tipp, den Du irgendwie mitgeben könntest, irgendwas was Du vielleicht, irgend 'n Fehler, den man vermeiden kann, irgendwas, was Du heute anders machen würdest mit deinem Wissen, wenn",{"sentences":58223,"speaker":149,"num_words":56158,"start":53813,"end":53823},[58224],{"text":58225,"start":53813,"end":53823},"Du zurückblicken kannst.",{"sentences":58227,"speaker":842,"num_words":55692,"start":53823,"end":54026},[58228,58230,58232,58234,58236],{"text":58229,"start":53823,"end":53833},"Gibt's da was?",{"text":58231,"start":53833,"end":53872},"Ja, ich glaub, ich will 2 2 Dinge 2 Dinge fallen mir ein.",{"text":58233,"start":53872,"end":53938},"Der erste Punkt ist, wenn Du irgendwo eigentlich weißt, dass etwas die richtige Entscheidung ist, auch wenn sie schwer ist, dann triff sie.",{"text":58235,"start":53938,"end":54007},"Du musst sie früher oder später sowieso treffen und eine harte Entscheidung früher zu treffen, ist immer besser, als eine harte Entscheidung später zu treffen.",{"text":58237,"start":54011,"end":54026},"Das ist Tipp Nummer 1.",{"sentences":58239,"speaker":842,"num_words":58250,"start":54030,"end":54312},[58240,58242,58244,58246,58248],{"text":58241,"start":54030,"end":54040},"Tipp Nummer 2, vertraue.",{"text":58243,"start":54044,"end":54126},"Was ich damit meine, ich bin bekennender Christ und ich weiß, dass mein Leben in Gottes Hand ist und ich glaube an Gottes Führung für mein Leben.",{"text":58245,"start":54130,"end":54190},"Und trotzdem ist es oft so, Du hast irgendwie 'n Ereignis grad auf der Arbeit, kann aber auch privat sein, ja?",{"text":58247,"start":54190,"end":54257},"Und Du Du denkst natürlich dadrüber nach und Du grübelst und Du machst dir Sorgen und Du stellst alles auf den Prüfstand.",{"text":58249,"start":54257,"end":54312},"Und Du stellst auf einmal die ganz allgemeinen Fragen nach dem Motto, mach ich hier das Richtige?",91,{"sentences":58252,"speaker":842,"num_words":58263,"start":54312,"end":54461},[58253,58255,58257,58259,58261],{"text":58254,"start":54312,"end":54323},"Wird das Unternehmen?",{"text":58256,"start":54323,"end":54340},"Morgen bleibt es sein, ja?",{"text":58258,"start":54343,"end":54373},"Und da ist etwas, wo ich sagen muss, nimm's locker.",{"text":58260,"start":54377,"end":54426},"Es geht vorbei und Du weißt dich unter dieser Führung, vertrau dich dieser dieser Führung Gottes an.",{"text":58262,"start":54430,"end":54461},"Und Du weißt auch, dann wird es 'n guter Weg gehen.",46,{"sentences":58265,"speaker":842,"num_words":55658,"start":54461,"end":54510},[58266],{"text":58267,"start":54461,"end":54510},"Und dieses Vertrauen, das würd ich, meinem Jungen sollen ich, glaub ich, noch mal mitgeben.",{"sentences":58269,"speaker":128,"num_words":58276,"start":54514,"end":54725},[58270,58272,58274],{"text":58271,"start":54514,"end":54554},"Sind auf jeden Fall 2 sehr gute und allgemeingültige Aussagen, glaub ich.",{"text":58273,"start":54554,"end":54652},"Grade, der erste Teil, wenn jetzt wenn wir jetzt nicht schon am Ende wären, könnt ich da auf jeden Fall noch mal sehr viel weiter reinfragen, welche Entscheidungen es bei dir waren.",{"text":58275,"start":54652,"end":54725},"Aber ich finde trotzdem ist doch ein, lass lass uns lieber belassen bei dabei, weil ich glaub, das können sich viele von uns mitnehmen.",68,{"sentences":58278,"speaker":149,"num_words":57245,"start":54728,"end":54815},[58279],{"text":58280,"start":54728,"end":54815},"Na ja, also wir haben ja grad schon gesagt, wir wissen nicht, wie es in 20 Jahren aussieht, also müssen wir 'n Follow-up machen zu dieser Folge in",{"sentences":58282,"speaker":842,"num_words":56098,"start":54815,"end":54838},[58283,58285,58287,58288],{"text":58284,"start":54815,"end":54822},"20 Jahren.",{"text":58286,"start":54825,"end":54830},"Ja, dann.",{"text":413,"start":54830,"end":54834},{"text":2082,"start":54834,"end":54838},{"sentences":58290,"speaker":128,"num_words":55778,"start":54838,"end":54908},[58291],{"text":58292,"start":54838,"end":54908},"die helfen dir auch ab jetzt noch mal wahrscheinlich für die nächsten 20 Jahre, diese beiden, sie immer mal Ich glaub,",{"sentences":58294,"speaker":842,"num_words":57392,"start":54908,"end":54957},[58295,58297],{"text":58296,"start":54908,"end":54933},"in 20 Jahren gibt's noch 'n Podcast Format.",{"text":58298,"start":54933,"end":54957},"Wahrscheinlich gibt's oder wenn da was ganz anderes",{"sentences":58300,"speaker":128,"num_words":57050,"start":54960,"end":55012},[58301,58303],{"text":58302,"start":54960,"end":54987},"Ich mein, Bull wird's eher geben als unseren Podcast.",{"text":58304,"start":54987,"end":55012},"Das ist auf jeden Fall schon mal eine",{"sentences":58306,"speaker":149,"num_words":56178,"start":55015,"end":55052},[58307],{"text":58308,"start":55015,"end":55052},"Oh, jetzt bin ich 'n bisschen den Hals getroffen, Fabi, muss",{"sentences":58310,"speaker":128,"num_words":56142,"start":55052,"end":55114},[58311,58313,58315],{"text":58312,"start":55052,"end":55059},"ich sagen.",{"text":58314,"start":55062,"end":55107},"Ja, aber da würde ich sag, einmal nur weniger Arbeit für uns automatisch generieren.",{"text":58316,"start":55107,"end":55114},"Ich hab",{"sentences":58318,"speaker":842,"num_words":56497,"start":55114,"end":55149},[58319],{"text":58320,"start":55114,"end":55149},"aufs Format auch nur angespielt, wollt ich nur mal sagen.",{"sentences":58322,"speaker":149,"num_words":55649,"start":55152,"end":55311},[58323,58324,58325,58327,58329],{"text":413,"start":55152,"end":55153},{"text":876,"start":55157,"end":55158},{"text":58326,"start":55158,"end":55200},"Und wir sehen's ja in den 20 Jahren, wie's dann wie's dann aussieht.",{"text":58328,"start":55203,"end":55300},"Auf alle Fälle dir heute schon mal supervielen Dank, Moritz, für die Zeit, die Du dir genommen hast, für die Fragen, für Rede und Antwort, die Du gestanden hast.",{"text":58330,"start":55300,"end":55311},"Ja, vielen Dank.",{"sentences":58332,"speaker":149,"num_words":56314,"start":55315,"end":55529},[58333,58335,58337,58339],{"text":58334,"start":55315,"end":55347},"Allen da draußen vielen Dank, dass Sie wieder zugehört haben.",{"text":58336,"start":55350,"end":55391},"Ihr könnt uns jederzeit erreichen auf Social Media, auf unserem Discord Server.",{"text":58338,"start":55391,"end":55431},"Ihr könnt uns E-Mails schreiben an Podcast at Programmier Punkt bar.",{"text":58340,"start":55435,"end":55529},"Wir freuen uns immer über Feedback, Vorschläge, Anregungen, Kritik aller Art und selbst wenn ihr uns nicht schreibt, wir hören uns so oder so in ein paar Wochen hier wieder.",{"sentences":58342,"speaker":128,"num_words":56178,"start":55529,"end":55565},[58343,58344,58346,58348],{"text":16975,"start":55529,"end":55532},{"text":58345,"start":55532,"end":55540},"Bis dann.",{"text":58347,"start":55540,"end":55546},"Bis dahin.",{"text":58349,"start":55546,"end":55565},"Moritz, vielen Dank in der Bar.",{"sentences":58351,"speaker":842,"num_words":56089,"start":55565,"end":55591},[58352,58354],{"text":58353,"start":55565,"end":55581},"Danke euch, mein Name.",{"text":58355,"start":55581,"end":55591},"Viel Spaß 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Aber lass uns doch die Reise, weil ich glaub, es gibt, also ich hab mir, ich hab so viele Fragen zu Bool und was grade eure Challenges sind und auch mit eurem Start-up, das ihr noch parallel gegründet habt. Aber lasst doch gerne trotzdem noch die die Historie, damit wir das hier für in unserem Special komplett haben, gerne von dir dann noch mal durchgehen. Weil was was war denn, also so nach Schule bis Einstieg bei Buhl, was waren noch so deine Zwischenstationen? Weil ich hab zumindest gesehen, auch wenn's bei dir, glaub ich, nur 2 Monate waren, haben wir waren wir haben wir zeitgleich für die Deutsche Bank gearbeitet. Echt? Dass wir gleich aufgefallen wollen. Wahnsinn, wir haben zeitgleich für die Deutsche Bank Ja, ich muss zugeben. Ich war ich war allerdings nur Praktikant da. Du warst, ja, ich war zu der Zeit dualer Schüler nicht meine. Ich hab gesehen, 2 11 war's bei dir. Kann das sein? Das müsst ich nachgucken. 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