[{"data":1,"prerenderedAt":70116},["ShallowReactive",2],{"/podcast/cto-special-36-dirk-daumann-von-blacklane":3},{"podcast":4,"pickOfTheDayCount":99,"speakerCount":100,"relatedPodcasts":101,"transcript":102},{"id":5,"published_on":6,"type":7,"number":8,"title":9,"slug":10,"description":11,"transcript":12,"audio_url":13,"apple_url":12,"google_url":12,"spotify_url":12,"cover_image":14,"banner_image":26,"speakers":36,"members":62,"picks_of_the_day":94,"tags":95,"tagsPrepared":96,"speakersPrepared":97},"35b604dd-0252-4dc9-8cd0-eaa2c5be35fe","2025-12-02T05:00:00.000Z","cto_special","#36","Dirk Daumann von Blacklane","cto-special-36-dirk-daumann-von-blacklane","\u003Cp>Wie spannend ein Gesprächspartner ist, merkt man oft schon daran, dass sein Lebenslauf fast ausschließlich aus bekannten Unternehmen besteht. Genau so ist es bei Dirk Daumann. Im CTO-Special spricht er mit uns über seinen Weg durch einige der bekanntesten Tech-Unternehmen und darüber, warum er diesen Pfad überhaupt eingeschlagen hat. Wir tauchen ein in die Motivationen, die ihn immer wieder angetrieben haben.\u003C/p>\n\u003Cp>Heute ist Dirk in einer hybriden Rolle als CPO und CTO bei Blacklane, einem Chauffeur:innen-Dienst mit gehobenem Service. Aus dem Entschluss heraus, sich selbst zu beweisen, dass er Mathematik sehr wohl meistern kann, auch wenn die Schulzeit das vielleicht nicht gezeigt hat, startete er mit einem Physikstudium. Dabei blieb es nicht, aber diese Entscheidung ebnete den Weg zu seinen späteren Stationen: von HERE Maps über Skype, Klarna, Joyn, sennder bis zu Flink und seiner heutigen Rolle.\u003C/p>\n\u003Cp>Dirk spricht mit uns über die Herausforderungen, unterschiedliche Kulturen und prägende Erfahrungen, die ihn über die Jahre begleitet haben. \u003C/p>",null,"https://www.buzzsprout.com/176239/episodes/18260419-cto-special-36-dirk-daumann-von-blacklane.mp3",{"id":15,"title":16,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":17,"filename_download":18,"metadata":19,"type":20,"filesize":21,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":22,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":23,"uploaded_on":24,"folder":12,"width":25,"height":25,"charset":12,"duration":12},"00f806dd-6ae6-40d4-a146-17032b34982b","Cto36 Dirk Daumann","00f806dd-6ae6-40d4-a146-17032b34982b.png","cto36_Dirk Daumann.png",{},"image/png","1368664","2025-11-26T13:13:56.154Z","11a655b6-bcfc-4c6c-a13c-68189e38edb9","2025-11-26T13:13:56.152Z",1500,{"id":27,"title":28,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":29,"filename_download":30,"metadata":31,"type":20,"filesize":32,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":33,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":23,"uploaded_on":34,"folder":12,"width":35,"height":35,"charset":12,"duration":12},"38493ef8-d7c4-4ab4-b4b7-1a8e4dfabd34","Dirk Daumann Profile","38493ef8-d7c4-4ab4-b4b7-1a8e4dfabd34.png","Dirk Daumann_profile.png",{},"182494","2025-11-26T13:14:08.775Z","2025-11-26T13:14:08.772Z",1024,[37],{"speaker":38},{"id":39,"slug":40,"academic_title":12,"occupation":41,"first_name":42,"last_name":43,"description":44,"event_image":45,"profile_image":56},"9fe091c6-67d7-4a19-91d4-4bb3130b43f8","dirk-daumann","CPO & CTO bei Blacklane","Dirk","Daumann","\u003Cp>Dirk Daumann hat bereits einige namenhafte Unternehmen unterstützt und begleitet. Angefangen in der klassischen Beratung bei Accenture ging es dann über HERE Maps, Skype, Klarna, Joyn, seender und Flink zu seiner heutigen Rolle als CPO und CTO bei Blacklane, einem digitalen Chauffeur:innen-Service.\u003C/p>\n\u003Cp> \u003C/p>",{"id":46,"title":47,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":48,"filename_download":49,"metadata":50,"type":51,"filesize":52,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":53,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":23,"uploaded_on":54,"folder":12,"width":55,"height":35,"charset":12,"duration":12},"82579408-9e2d-4f46-9686-c0d35fa399d9","Dirk Daumann Event","82579408-9e2d-4f46-9686-c0d35fa399d9.jpg","Dirk Daumann_event.jpg",{},"image/jpeg","858477","2025-11-26T13:13:37.480Z","2025-11-26T13:13:37.471Z",1536,{"id":57,"title":28,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":58,"filename_download":30,"metadata":59,"type":20,"filesize":32,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":60,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":23,"uploaded_on":61,"folder":12,"width":35,"height":35,"charset":12,"duration":12},"b0434cf1-e89b-4b86-a11d-ac9733c428d2","b0434cf1-e89b-4b86-a11d-ac9733c428d2.png",{},"2025-11-26T13:13:31.631Z","2025-11-26T13:13:31.628Z",[63,78],{"member":64},{"id":65,"first_name":66,"last_name":67,"occupation":68,"description":69,"normal_image":70},"958f6624-c721-4ff9-8a97-69148f540945","Dennis","Becker","// Podcast-Host","\u003Cp>Dennis ist Head of Development bei Lotum und kümmert sich liebevoll um die Entwickler:innen und deren Weiterentwicklung. \u003Cbr>In den Podcastfolgen übernimmt Dennis gerne die Moderation. Beim täglichen Tischtennis ist er immer am Start und seit wenigen Jahren passionierter Kitesurfer. Mittlerweile ist er auch Vibe Coder mit Leidenschaft und überzeugt, dass seine Kolleg:innen AI unterschätzen. \u003C/p>",{"id":71,"title":72,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":73,"filename_download":74,"metadata":12,"type":51,"filesize":75,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":76,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":12,"uploaded_on":77,"folder":12,"width":35,"height":35,"charset":12,"duration":12},"7a9fd72e-16b1-4283-8c1f-348a3e7986f9","Dennis Becker","7a9fd72e-16b1-4283-8c1f-348a3e7986f9.jpg","dennis_becker_normal_01e352e682.jpg","45729","2022-01-16T14:26:35.196Z","2021-12-30T14:16:28.647Z",{"member":79},{"id":80,"first_name":81,"last_name":82,"occupation":68,"description":83,"normal_image":84},"ff2b7fcd-803f-4bcb-88d4-4f36636c7d6a","Fabi","Fink","\u003Cp>Es ist eher dem Zufall zuzuschreiben, dass Fabi zum Full Stack Developer wurde. Mit Anfängen als Product Owner und Software-Architekt, hatte er zwischenzeitig seine Passion als Coding Wizard gefunden. Heute fungiert er als Product Manager bei Lotum.\u003Cbr>Als Frontsänger mehrerer Bandprojekte fehlt Fabi manchmal die große Bühne im Alltag. Das ist vor allem dann spürbar, wenn er im Podcast auch mal ungefragt seinen Expertisen-Senf dazugibt. Im Gegenzug ist er der Einzige in der Runde, der den Pick of the Day wirklich ernst nimmt.\u003C/p>",{"id":85,"title":86,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":87,"filename_download":88,"metadata":89,"type":51,"filesize":90,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":91,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":92,"uploaded_on":93,"folder":12,"width":35,"height":35,"charset":12,"duration":12},"56cc12dd-4672-4db0-850f-7ad37b68ca86","Fabi CD","56cc12dd-4672-4db0-850f-7ad37b68ca86.jpg","Fabi_CD.jpg",{},"583732","2024-07-29T11:46:00.241Z","e97179d2-51b3-4deb-828f-9524091441f5","2024-07-29T11:46:00.135Z",[],[],[],[98],{"first_name":42,"last_name":43,"profile_image":56,"slug":40,"description":44,"event_image":45,"academic_title":12},461,191,[],{"id":103,"service":104,"supported_features":105,"speakers":108,"raw_response":115},"c891596f-bd13-4e4e-8e5f-f4ddba7478da","deepgram",[106,107],"timestamps","diarization",[109,111,113],{"identifier":110,"name":66},"0",{"identifier":112,"name":81},"1",{"identifier":114,"name":42},"2",{"metadata":116,"results":130},{"transaction_key":117,"request_id":118,"sha256":119,"created":120,"duration":121,"channels":122,"models":123,"model_info":125},"deprecated","a0d3232a-6110-49f5-8187-da259cc12cd7","59a0e247d17d1975f413cf42f596e68ab8e522c71233130d15fa90636d867386","2025-11-26T22:15:10.831Z",5568.9434,1,[124],"91f8eabe-2126-4ed4-9e56-d480032309b3",{"91f8eabe-2126-4ed4-9e56-d480032309b3":126},{"name":127,"version":128,"arch":129},"2-general-nova","2024-05-09.3071","nova-2",{"channels":131,"utterances":48162},[132],{"alternatives":133},[134],{"transcript":135,"confidence":136,"words":137,"paragraphs":44724},"Hallo und herzlich willkommen zu einem neuen CTO Special der Programmierbar. Mein ist Dennis Becker und ich sitze hier heute gemeinsam mit mit dem Fabi Fink. Hello. Und unser heutiger Gast hat einige Stationen in seinem Lebenslauf, die man nicht erläutern muss, weil ich glaube, viele sie einfach kennen, sei es bei Skype von Microsoft hörbar, beim Zahlungsanbieter Klarna oder auch beim Streamingdienst Join von ProSieben, Sat. 1 und ist heute CTO und CPO von Blacklane. Herzlich willkommen Dirk Daumann. Dirk, sehr schön, dass Du dir die Zeit genommen hast. Ja, vielen Dank für die Einladung und die Chance zu sprechen mit euch. Ja, wir starten super gerne in dem CTO Podcast. Man könnte fast schon sagen nach Schema F, weil wir es mittlerweile immer so ein bisschen machen. Aber wir würden gerne einmal ganz weit zurückreisen und so ein bisschen deinen ersten Kontakt zu Technologie erfragen. Kannst Du dich daran erinnern, wann so deine ersten Kontaktpunkte zu Technik waren und wer das vielleicht begünstigt hat? Ja, kann ich versuchen. Ich bin schon 'n bisschen älter, von daher. Ah ja, ja. Technologie meinst Du wahrscheinlich Computertechnologie, oder? Genau, ja. Es kann ja auch 'n anderer Einstieg gewesen sein, je nachdem, was sich 'n bisschen in die Karriere gebracht hat. Ja. Also ich glaube, so mein mein Hintergrund war immer von relativ jungen Jahren Technik, aber jetzt nicht unbedingt Software, weil gab's da teilweise noch nicht, als ich noch kleiner war. Aber ich war mal sehr, sehr interessiert daran zu verstehen, wie Dinge funktionieren. Es hat angefangen als Kind, dass ich mein Spielzeug auseinander gebaut hab, bis es nicht mehr benutzbar war, Hab dann an Motorrädern rumgeschraubt und so weiter. Und ich hab auch 'n Bruder, der ist älter, 6 Jahre. Und der war eigentlich relativ so ab Teenageralter, auch an Computer interessiert, ne. Also einfach Problem mehr sparen und so weiter. Da gab's ja, wie gesagt, noch keine Desktopcomputer zu dem Zeitpunkt oder konnten wir uns 'n bisschen nicht leisten, ne. Gab's noch 4 86 und so was und Commodorus. Hatten wir dann auch. Und er war aber immerhin der so der der Nerd vor allem von uns beiden. Und ich war immer 'n bisschen, hab zugeschaut, da bin ich mir nicht aktiv mitgemacht. Und eigentlich so richtig in meinen eigenen Computer hab ich mir gekauft extrem im Studium erst mit, als ich, genau, nach Schulabschluss Studium angefangen. Da hab ich dann immer mal im Sommerurlaub gejobbt und hab mir dann meinen ersten Laptop gekauft. Ich glaube, auch in 4 Sechsundachtziger. Mhm. Wahnsinnig teuer. Und das war so mein erster Kontaktpunkt eigentlich mit Computer und Software direkt selber. Vorher war's eigentlich eher mein Bruder, 'n bisschen rumgespielt, aber ja, eigentlich sonst nicht aktiv probiert oder so. Okay. Also eigentlich relativ spät, vielleicht wahrscheinlich heute, nur die meisten schon als Teenager oder so einsteigen, ja. Genau. Und das war dann auch mehr aus so aus Eigennutz, ne. Computer genutzt fürs Studium, Schreiben und so weiter, 'n bisschen programmiert. Und dann aber halt auch im Studium natürlich dann in in die Programmierung eingestiegen. Mhm. Genau. Und studiert hast Du dann was? Ja, ist ja auch eine interessante Story. Ich hab erst Physik studiert für ein Jahr. Mhm. Und also ich muss dazu sagen, ich hab vom Schulsystem, ich hab ein Fachabitur gemacht, hab, wie nannte sich das? Kommunikationselektroniker gelernt. Also ich hab da auch programmiert, Assembler und solche Geschichten. Hat so Chips programmiert, 80 irgendwas Chips. Schon sehr, sehr lange her. Hab da nach dem Fachabitur wollt ich studieren, aber im deutschen System kannst Du halt nicht mit Fach mit Fachabitur an eine Universität gehen, sondern ich musste an eine, es gab es damals noch, gibt es heute nicht mehr eine Gesamthochschule. Da sind also Universitäten, die auch Leute akzeptieren mit Fachabitur. Und das war in dem Fall die Universität Paderborn. Und da konnt ich dann über sogenannte Brückenkurse in das normale Universitätsstudium einsteigen, sonst hätt ich nur auf die Fachhochschule gehen können. Das war also ganz interessant. Und dann hab ich im Fachabitur, war ich so schlecht in Mathe, dass mein Mathelehrer mir gesagt hat, Herr Dormon, Sie werden es nie schaffen im Studium, weil Sie in Mathe so schlecht sind. Und das haben wir mich da angesprochen, zu sagen, okay, ich studier jetzt Physik, weil schlimmer kann's nicht werden, so nach dem Motto. Und hab dann ein Jahr Physik studiert und hab mich dann durch Mathe durchgekämpft. Hab's auch geschafft. Und das war dann 'n bisschen so für das eigene Ego selbstbeschündige. Und hab dann aber festgestellt, eigentlich hab ich das erreicht, was ich erreichen wollte. Ich hab den Mathekurs bestanden. Jetzt kann ich eigentlich 'n 'n 'n Weg gehen, der mir wahrscheinlich mehr liegt. Und das war dann Wirtschaftsingenieur, also Elektrotechnik und BWL. Ja, genau. Und hat das dann halt zu Ende geführt, ja. Also 'n bisschen lange Story, aber zeigt, glaub ich, son bisschen so mein mein Charakter, dass ich dann sehr angesprochen bin. Und wollte mir sagen, dass ich dass ich nicht erfolgreich sein werde. Bin ich mal gespannt, ob das sich gleich im weiteren Werdegang noch wiederholt in der Story, aber ja Kann sein, ja. Sehr, sehr interessant auf jeden Fall. Wie wenn Du jetzt sagst, okay, dann danach das Studium ja eigentlich auch noch trotzdem jetzt nicht die Informatik- und Softwareentwicklung so, wie ist denn dein Weg weitergegangen? So wie wann wann war der beruflich oder professionell erste Kontakt mit Softwareentwicklung? Ja. Also im Studium haben wir, ich hab jetzt nicht Informatik direkt studiert, aber Wirtschaftsingenieur und Elektrotechnik. Und da ist ja dann auch schon 'n starken Bezug zu Softwareentwicklung in den Elektrotechnik. Und das hat dann auch schon 'n starken Bezug zu Softwareentwicklung in den in den Studiengängen. Und ich hab mich spezialisiert auf den Bereich Operations Control, also Optimierungsprobleme und solche Geschichten. Und da dann auch im Studium programmiert in dem Bereich und pünktlich 'n Elektrotechnik Studium war. Ich hab aber relativ wenig Elektrotechnik gemacht. Und dann war halt nach dem Studium die Frage, hey, was mach ich jetzt? Das war 2009 2000 grade so Internetboom, also war da noch, ist grade Kurz vor der Blase? Genau, die Blase ist genau dann geplatzt, als ich angefangen hab, mein Beruf. Er war halt vorher mich beworben, auch schon 'n halbes Jahr vor Studiumende 'n Vertrag in der Tasche gehabt. Mhm. Und da war die Frau aus Maich, wollte da lieber was Richtung Softwareentwicklung machen, hat da halt mit Rangebots und bin halt in der Beratung gelandet bei Accenture, genau gesagt, Accenture Technology Consulting damals, die halt primär Großprojekte durchgeführt haben, ne. Also wie 100 plus Leute Projekte bei speziell Corpels und so weiter. Und das war dann halt mein Einstieg, professioneller Einstieg in die Softwareentwicklung. Genau. Das erste Projekt war dann bei der Deutschen Bahn das Mainframensystem, was damals noch verwendet wurde, Tickets zu buchen. Das haben wir abgelöst mit 'ner Java- und webbasierten Lösung. Das war aber genau 2000, als die Blase geplatzt ist. Also die Blase ist 'n halbes Jahr voll ungefähr geplatzt. Ich hatte aber Glück, dass ich halt schon 'n Vertrag hatte und dann auch den Vertrag behalten hab. Und dann auch da direkt 'n Projekt gefunden hab bei der Deutschen Bahn. Und dadurch hatt ich, glaub ich, relativ viel Glück im im Start meiner Kehre. Ja. Und das heißt, Du hast eher aus Interesse studiert oder hattest Du irgendwas im Kopf, was Du danach gerne machen würdest? So richtig Plan hätt ich nicht, was ich beruflich machen wollt am Anfang vom Studium. Aber ich hab halt immer Interesse für Technik gehabt, Ingenieurwesen oder halt Softwareentwicklung. Mhm. Und im Studium hat sich das dann so entwickelt. Also ich hab im Studium im Grunde genommen meinen meinen Weg gefunden. Ich hab auch im Studium nebenbei gearbeitet, Verschiedene Jobs bei verschiedenen Firmen, aber auch immer Richtung Consulting oder Softwareentwicklung. Und dadurch hat sich das dann ergeben, dass ich dann nachm Studium einigermaßen wusste, was ich machen wollte. Mhm. Ja. Wie siehst Du das, wenn Du dann als Consultant eingestiegen bist und ja eigentlich dann so ab Minute 1 irgendwo beratend bist oder unterstützend irgendwo in Teams? Wie hat da so die, also zum Ersten, wie hat sich's angefühlt, wo dein Wissensstand damals war? Und wie funktioniert in dem Kontext so dann die Weiterbildung? Also wie wo hast Du da gelernt in der Zeit? Ja, also ein klassisches Beratungsgeschäft, ne. Du kommst von der Uni und bist dann, damals hieß das, glaub ich, Analyst bei Extension Show. Das das unterste Level und bist halt der Mega Junior, der irgendwo in der Ecke sitzt und dann halt relativ genau 'n Scope bekommt, was das Thema angeht, was was umgesetzt werden muss. Ich hatte mal relativ viel Glück in meinen Excenture Projekten oder grade am Anfang, dass ich halt gute Manager hatte, die mich da gecoacht haben und auch mir Aufgaben gegeben haben, die halt jetzt entsprechend meinem Skill Set sind. Und hab mich da halt im Job weiterentwickelt, ne. Klassisch Beratung, größere Aufgaben bekommen, größere Challenges und so weiter. Und da aber auch relativ schnell in die in die Personalverantwortung, zumindest auf Projektebene. Also ich hab dann alle Teams relativ schnell geleitet und ja, haben mich da halt weiterentwickelt in der Richtung Richtung Leadership Position. Technische beide Entwicklung war ganz klar aufm Projekt programmiert, ne, und dann halt da einfach den Skript ausgebaut, Komplexität ausgebaut. Genau. Und dann einfach vom Kollegen gelernt, also Mitarbeitern, die angecoacht haben und so weiter. Ja, cool. Und danach, wenn man mal auf deinen Werdegang schaut, danach kamen ja eigentlich dann ausschließlich Stationen bei Firmen, die im Endeffekt ein digitales Produkt irgendwie vertreiben oder dass das ihr Produkt ist sozusagen, was Und auch alles Namen, die man ja irgendwie kennt, so der nächste Step war ja dann hier, also die Ja. Der Maps Anbieter so. Kannst Du uns 'n bisschen dazu erzählen, wie wie diese Entwicklung dahin zu hier kam? War das irgendwie eine bewusste Entscheidung weg von Beratung hin zu hier und erzähl uns mal gerne, was Du da gemacht hast. Ja, also ich war 7 7 oder fast 8 Jahre dann bei Xent Show, also 7 Mal Bär ungefähr. Was superspannend vor, ne. Also was dir die persönliche Entwicklung angeht, glaub ich, wenn ich jetzt zurückschaue, meine Kehre so, die steilste Entwicklung. Und weshalb liegt auch daran, dass ich da halt vom Junior eingestiegen bin und dann halt Richtung Manager mich entwickelt hab. Vorteil halt, dass man halt verschiedene Projekte sieht, ne, und und verschiedene Kunden sieht, neue Challenges hat und so weiter. Und das alles relativ groß, ne. Sie haben halt Deutsche Bahn gemacht, DHL, Otto und solche Geschichten, ne. Sieht man halt schon so Large Skill Softwareentwicklung. Wie funktioniert das, ne? Also mit 150 Leuten irgendwie 'n ERP System ablösen oder solche Geschichten über Custom Entwicklungen. Weil schon krass, was man da lernt, ne. Nicht nur reine Softwareentwicklung, aber auch das ganze Projektmanagement, Projektmanagement drum herum. Und dass ich halt 7, 8 Tage gemacht hab, bin dann irgendwann leichte, ja, diese leichte persönliche Krise, weil ich halt eigentlich immer von Montag bis Freitag unterwegs war. Also ich hatte am Anfang hab ich in Hamburg gewohnt, hatte das Projekt bei der Bahn in Frankfurt 2 Jahre. Bin dann nach Frankfurt gezogen, hab ich gesagt, ich will nicht mehr reisen. Dann war das Projekt auch vorbei, nämlich, da hab ich in Frankfurt gewohnt, bin nach Prag gereist, die Woche. Und das ging halt 7, 8 Jahre so. Und bei Accenture hast Du halt entweder Hotel- oder Projektwohnung. Und irgendwann hab ich halt in den Projektwohnungen gesessen und hab gedacht so, ey, kannst Du nicht jetzt das so weitermachen? Ist ja kein Leben, ne. Also sitzt in der Wohnung und da hängen Bilder von anderen Leuten an der Wand. Also ich glaub deine eigenen Bilder. Ich hab auch gar keine Wohnung mehr gehabt irgendwann. Ich ich hab meinen meine Mietwohnung aufgegeben damals, weil ich Projektwohnungen hatte und hatte nur noch so 5 Kisten. Das war so mein Einkommen, der Rest war Projektwohnung. Und da hab ich dann irgendwann gesagt, ey, das das das will ich so nicht mehr machen in dieser Reiserei und ständig Hotel oder Projektwohnung. Und das war eigentlich der Grund, warum ich gesagt hab, ich will weg. Und der andere Grund war halt, bei Consulting machst Du halt immer projektbasierte Arbeit. Das heißt, Du bringst das zum gewissen Grade, aber wenn wenn's eventuell spannend wird oder wenn, Du bringst es nie so richtig zu Ende, ne. Das heißt, Du steigst immer aus, wenn's bevor es eigentlich beendet wurde, weil dann meistens der Kunde dann übernimmt und so weiter. Und irgendwann wollt ich das auch mal irgendwie weniger projektbasiert, sondern mehr produktbasiert arbeiten, ne, wirklich 'n Produkt Ownership übernehmen. Und bin dann halt, wie gesagt, weg von 'nem Consulting und Richtung, da hat sich dann einen einen Job ergeben bei hier, der recht spannend war als Architekt. Am ersten Tag, wo ich gestartet bin, gab's den Job aber nicht mehr. Da wurd ich dann eine neue Rolle angeboten, weil die sich umorganisiert haben innerhalb der 3 Monate zwischen Kündigung und und Neuanfang. Kannst Du vielleicht kurz dazu 'n bisschen Kontext geben, wo was hier zu dem Zeitpunkt war? Also ich hab, glaub ich, das erste Mal Kontakt mit dem Maps Produkt hatte ich jetzt 2 13, das war die Zeit dazu, dann schon wieder grade kurz davor was wegzugehen. Also wie wie kann man sich vorstellen, was was war hier zu dem Zeitpunkt, wo Du da angefangen hast? Ja. Also hier war noch wirklich, kann man sagen, was Company und Kultur angeht, nur noch Denkweise mehr Nokia Gate Five. Gate Five, weil die Company damals gekauft wurde von Nokia. Mhm. Also 'n kleines Team in Berlin, ich glaub, es haben sie 200 Leute oder so was, die verschiedene Produkte gebohrt haben, ne. Sagen wir die webbasierte Version, dann noch die App mit relativ starker Verbindung zu Nuklear. Also eigentlich war Nuklear denen ihre Plattform, Hauptplattform. Mhm. Und als ich da war, also sehr produktfokussierte Company, auch über das Leadership. Michael Halbherr damals noch und Christoph Helmes. Sehr, sehr produktfokussisierte visionäre Menschen. Superviel gelernt. So wurde auch relativ schnell klar, dass diese Abhängigkeit zu Symbian, als US und als einzige Plattform wahrscheinlich nicht sehr zukunftsträchtig ist, ne. Sie vielleicht, okay, was können wir machen? Wir haben eigentlich 'n Riesenasset an der Hand. Witzigweise hat dann Nokia Geld five gekauft, was irgendwie 'n 7 Billionen Deal war. Mhm. Also David, Kohliat und so. Und wir haben halt als Asset gehabt. Und haben überlegt so, okay, ist ja eigentlich 'n 'n super Asset und das jetzt nur auf 'nem auf 'ner Plattform zu betreiben, die halt wahrscheinlich eher die kleinen Userzahlen hat, macht wenig Sinn. Was können wir mit dem Produkt abmachen? Und das war ja so grade der Umbruch, ne, dass man gesagt hat, hey, wollen wir nicht eine Plattform anbieten mit APIs, die man extra nutzen kann, ja, für Geocording, Reverse Geocording, Map Branding und so weiter. Und das war grade, das war nicht meine Rolle als Architekt diese APIs mit zu definieren. Und dann, genau, an dem Zeitpunkt war's aber so, dass es 'n ersten Deal gab mit Yahoo damals, die ausgestiegen sind aus diesem ganzen Map Business, weil das relativ investmentheavy ist. Und gesagt haben, okay, wir machen Deal genug, ja. Die bauen uns die Plattform und wir machen halt sozusagen User Interface on top. Und das war dann auch mein erste meine erste Rolle, diese Plattform mit aufzubauen als Produkt. Mhm. Ne, also wir hatten dann verschiedene Assets in Nuklear. Es gab 'n Team, die haben Geocoling gemacht, dann gab's 'n Morting Team. Bisher alles für Simpian. Und jetzt ging's darum, da eine Set und APIs draufzusetzen, als Plattform zu verpacken und halt zu skalieren für so was wie 'n Yahoo, die halt doch relativ hohe Userzahlen hatten. Genau, das war eine Rolle. Und das war also wirklich 'n Mischmasch aus Produktmanagement, Engineering Management, Architektur, Programmmanagement, also recht wild, was zu den Score angeht, der wolle. Aber superspannend, weil man halt mit mit diesen Kunden sozusagen mal, ja, mit natürlich 'n Yahoo und und dann nachher anderen Kunden auch Und da diese Plattform wirklich ausm Boden gehoben hatten. Und find ich ganz interessant, diese, das heißt aber, Kunden waren dann wirklich in erster Linie so was wie Yahoo Maps oder jemand, der wirklich ein Kartenprodukt gebaut hat und ihr wart das Background für dieses Kartenprodukt so. Genau. Gibt's da also so, gibt's da so viele, die auch sich auf son anderes Back bauen verlassen für, also was was für Kunden sind sind das noch, die Maps bauen und dann irgendwie sone API von hier benutzen? Bing Maps zum Beispiel, das war der nächste Kunde. Die hatten das bisher selber gemacht, hatten auch relativ viel investiert, hatten auch Assets aufgebaut, wie zum Beispiel und so weiter. Haben aber auch immer entschieden, okay, das ist nicht unser Core Business. Das macht keinen Sinn, so viel Geld zu investieren in eine Map Plattform. Mhm. Lass uns mit mit machen oder. Eigentlich hast Du ja nur 2 Accountanbieter. Und TomTom, was die Daten angeht. Und dann hast Du halt wenige, die eine Mapplattform bauen, ne. Da ist Google Maps und 'n hier Maps, ne. In dem scale hast Du auch so und so weiter. Aber ist das wollen wir auch erkannt. Ist Google Maps, das heißt, das die Karten, die auf denen Google Maps basiert, die das kümmert sich auch Google nicht selbst rum. Ist das Mischmasch. Mhm. Also Google, wenn Du unten schaust, ich weiß nicht, ob das jetzt noch so ist, damals war das so. Die zeigen wir noch an. TomTom. Mhm. Diese Doku, glaub ich. Ja, genau. Das steht in den in den. Aber natürlich mittlerweile machen die auch viel selber, ne. Also haben viel der Daten und so weiter. Das heißt, die haben dann Overlays, ne, wo sie dann die reine Daten teilweise mit reinbringen. Aber damals war das noch Copyright der Kartendaten, weil das Erstellen der Kartendaten ist halt megeintensiv. Mittlerweile hat Google ja auch Streetmaps und so weiter. Das heißt, die haben da auch aufgebaut und machen das größtenteils jetzt selber wahrscheinlich. Nicht nur die die Streetmaps, sondern auch die wirkliche Kartografie dahinter. Mhm. Aber damals haben die das von Nerfack eingekauft und von TomTom. Nerfack ist halt stark in den USA und TomTom ist halt stark in Europa und die haben das halt kombiniert, ne. Ja. Aber das find ich ganz interessant, weil ich hab mir schon irgendwie 'n paar Mal gefragt, mich wundert, dass dann so viele auch so, also wie Apple Karten und so was. Mir war gar nicht bewusst, dass dieses die Karten dann doch von 'nem anderen Anbieter holen mich Ja. Immer so dachte, da muss doch so viel Aufwand dahinterstecken, dieses Kartenmaterial, dass es so viele Leute tun. Aber jetzt hab ich die Antwort darauf, so viele Leute tun's gar nicht. Es gibt mir 2. Es haben anfänglich aber wohl mal mehr probiert, wenn ich richtig verstanden wollte. So Yahoo Bing und so was, die hatten das mal auch selbst gemacht. Also die haben sich die Kartendaten auch selber auch eingekauft von 'n. Mhm. Aber die haben halt auch on top dann noch die Service gebaut. Ja. Also Du hast einmal die Kartendaten, das sind die Rohrdaten. Und dann hast Du halt zum Beispiel 'n Routingservice, den Yahoo da mal selber gebaut hat, aber einen globalen Routingservice zu bauen, der dir wirklich entweder normales Routing anbietet oder halt auch direction, also für eine Navigation, ist halt schon noch mal eine Liga, ne. Weil Du halt da, da ist halt nicht ein Produkt, was global funktioniert, sondern da ist auch viel lokales Wissen, sondern. Und das ist halt schon eine recht große Investition. Also ist echt simpel, aber grade Routing und Navigation ist halt schon sehr, sehr investment happy. Und für sone Yahoo ist oder oder eine macht das halt irgendwann keinen Sinn mehr, so was so was selber zu bauen. Ist dann dann gelöst das Problem, ne. Irgendwann sind die Rating Service halt von den Core Anbietern jetzt eine eine Nokia also halt auch so gut, dass man die einfach einkaufen kann, ne. Oder über eine Partnerschaft. Ja, gut. Und da, wenn ich's noch mal schlussendlich richtig verstehe, also 'n NAFTEC, das also Nokia hat 'n Nokia gekauft. Das heißt, es gehört zu Nokia Produkt. Und und weil weil ich würd damals, als ich hier das erste Mal benutzt hab, ich hab's glaub ich benutzt, weil das die Offline Funktionalität für Karten glaub ich gut hat. Das heißt im asiatischen Raum hab ich's genutzt, irgendwie mit meinem Roller irgendwo rumzufahren. Und da dachte ich immer so gut, hier ist 'n kleiner Player im Maps Business, aber eigentlich sind das dann sogar eher die Großen. Hab ich jetzt hab ich noch wieder was gelernt? Also die die Storyline ist, es gab eine No Care Gate Five. Mhm. Es gab eine Gate Five GMBH in Berlin, die wurde von No Care gekauft in Finnland. Dann hat Gate Five, also dann Nokia Gate Five Mhm. Den Deal gemacht mit gekauft. Und diese beiden wurden kombiniert in oder. Das war dann sozusagen die neue Brand und das das neue Unternehmen. Und das wurd auch ausgegliedert von Nokia. Das waren also 2 verschiedene Entitäten. Und war halt, das war halt auch basierend auf dem, was wir initial gemacht haben mit 'ner Jahr hohen anderen Kunden, der Gedanke, wir bauen jetzt nicht nur noch Maps wie Nokia auf Symbian, sondern wir bieten das als Plattform an, sondern deswegen hat man das ausgegliedert in Heamaps, das halt global einfach als unabhängige Plattform anbieten zu können, unabhängig von Nokia, was mit Nokia passiert. Das war die Storyline. Und wie gesagt immer noch heute am Markt, ne, wie man sieht. Ja. Genau. Und neben der Plattform verkaufen die immer noch auch Mapdaten, ne, BMW oder Mercedes Automotive Industrie. Genau. Ja. Ganz kurz zu der Offline Funktion. Das war so die Core Value Perposition von Ocar. Das hat von Kannst halt offline deine deine Navigation machen. Das Spannende daran ist, dass halt dieser Code, der auf sonem Symbion Telefon lief und entsprechend optimiert war, diese Navigation auf dem Telefon offline zu machen, den gleichen Code haben wir genommen auf den Server gepackt. Mhm. Und damit dann aufm Server Routing Kalkulation Geocoling, revers Geocoling. Es war halt son megaklein, ich glaub 10 Megabyte Package oder so. Und das konnten wir genauso aufm Server betreiben. Weil Servercode und kleinen Code war der gleiche. Das konnte halt online navigieren oder offline navigieren. Was was was heißt, was war das für eine Programmiersprache oder was würdest, war das geschrieben? Weißt Du das? A c plus plus oder A c. Ja, genau. Also recht und Das heißt, war eigentlich zuerst, diese Navigation war war für den Client gebaut und habt ihr, als die Plattform gebaut habt, dann einfach. Ja, interessant. Ja. Und daher megaeffizient, was zum Server Serverkapazitäten angeht, ja, zumindest den Footprint, ja. Mhm. Spannend. Eine kurze Nachfrage, aber sonst müssen wir 'n bisschen weitergehen, weil Du hast noch andere spannende Stationen, glaub ich. Aber Du hast es gesagt, am Ende von deiner Beraterzeit, Consultingzeit hattest Du auch relativ viel schon so Projektmanagement gemacht. Kannst Du so ganz grob einauthen, wie viel das war, also wie viel Du Technik gemacht hast und wie viel schon das andere war? Und war das dann 'n Asset, was sie spannend fanden, als Du dann gewechselt bist? Oder was war so, was wollten sie vor allen Dingen von dir, als sie dich eingestellt haben bei hier? Ja. Also Projektmanagement selber bei Accenture. Wie gesagt, ich bin angefangen als Journalist, hab ich 'n IC, bin dann Richtung Teamleitung gegangen, hab mit 2, 3 Leute geleitet und dann halt mehrere Teams geleitet und so weiter. Es war eher so Peeple Leadership und dann einfach Delivery Management, ne. Also dafür sorgen, dass wir halt Features liefern zu den vereinbarten Zeiten und so weiter. Das war halt alles auch Wasserfall und so weiter. Mhm. Genau. Und Projektmanagement selber im Sinne von klassisches Programmmanagement oder so hab ich nicht gemacht bei Accenture, sondern eher wirklich und und Delivery. Aber in dem Profil hast Du ganz klar sehr viel Stakeholder, Kommunikation, Projektmanagement im Sinne von Delivery Management. Und wann liefern wir was? Wie können wir Voraussagen, Schätzungen machen und so weiter? Und viel Architektur. Das war son bisschen so, ist auch heute noch, glaub ich, son bisschen mein Steckenpferd. Das Thema Architektur und so weiter. Welche Systeme bauen wir? Wie bauen wir sie? Und das war, glaub ich, interessant für Nokia. Also dadurch, ich war halt nicht nur 1 Nerd, sondern Mischmasch aus. Ich glaub, da spielt's jetzt aber während mein Studium wieder, nicht? Also 'n bisschen so Elektrotechnik BWL, bei Accenture, Softwareentwicklung, Management, Delivery Management. Und dann bei Know how halt diese Rolle als P o Architekt, Leader auch Manager, Pro Manager. Also relativ breit aufgestellt, ne, was das angeht. Und halt auch in der Lage, a, mit dem Team zu reden über technische Architektur, Implementierung, Delivery, aber auch b, mit dem Kunden zu reden wie 'ner Yahoo. Und da entsprechend kommunikativ unterwegs zu sein. Das das ja, das möcht ich aufn Kunden loslassen kann. Ich glaub, das hab ich bei Accenture gelernt, ne, also wie ich mit Stakeholdern umgehe, Stakeholdermanager und so weiter, Upmanagement, aber auch ins Team rein, ne, technisch entsprechend technisch zu sein. Und ich glaub, das andere, was über Accenture gelernt hat, ich nenn das heute immer noch. Also im Detail drin sein, ne. Nicht irgendwie nur rumlabern, sondern auch verstehen, was wir tun. Und relativ tief im Detail sein, wenn's sein muss, ne. Das hat sich immer so durchgezogen. Ich meine Karriere. Und das auch, das schaffst Du auch, jetzt spring ich schon 'n bisschen nach vorne weg, das schaffst Du auch heute noch? Ja, weil ich, also da kommt wieder das, was ich mal erzählt hab mit 'nem Spielzeug auseinandernehmen. Ich bin extrem, also ich bin sehr, sehr interessiert daran, wie Dinge funktionieren und das zieht sich bis heute durch. Und wenn es das schaff ich natürlich heute nicht in der Breite, aber es gibt ja immer so Battles, die man grade hat, ne, in 'nem Mhm. Team oder in 'ner Organisation oder wenn's bestimmte Produkt launt ist geht und so weiter. Und dann geh ich auch gerne entsprechend tief rein, halt die richtigen Fragen zu stellen. Darum geht's am Ende, ne. Erst mal eine Steam halt challenged oder schaut, okay, haben Sie haben wir an alles gedacht, ne. Und dann haben wir sind wir aufm guten Vater nicht. Und dafür musst Du halt schon 'n bisschen, glaub ich, Verständnis haben von dem, was passiert in 'nem Team oder in 'ner Organisation. Ja. Find ich auf jeden Fall, also kann ich komplett nachvollziehen, weil ich auch immer das Gefühl hab, so gerade, also wenn ich auch Glück auf meiner Karriere, welche Manager ich am besten fand, dann waren's auch die, die mit dieser Attitüde rangegangen sind und ich auch das eigentlich selbst zu machen, wie man's, wie Leute es überhaupt anders schaffen. Ich glaub, mein Kopf ist auch ähnlich dann gepoltd wie schon Steiner, dass ich mich frage, wie würde man das überhaupt machen, wenn ich bei diesen Themen dann nicht so im Detail drin wäre so. Also ich merke das bei den Themen so, gerade jetzt bei uns im Produktmanagement Beispiel Deswegen ich bin sehr viel besser in all den Topics, wo ich auch mal es theoretisch auch mal schon selbst gemacht hab. Zum Beispiel ist meine Schwäche so mit so, würde ich sagen, auf Designseite so, weil ich nie selbst Designer war. Ich hab's nie von der Pike auf gelernt. Ich kann da schon ganz guten Input geben, aber ich merke, das ist qualitativ ganz anderer Input und ich kann ganz anders auch führen, wenn ich in den Themen wie Entwicklung und Produkt und so, wo ich einfach überall im Detail auch mit drin bin oder zumindest mal war. Ja. Sehr interessant. Ja, es kommt halt dann auch die Erfahrung mit rein, ne. Ja. Wenn man halt viele Dinge schon gesehen hat. Jetzt ob man da, dann sieht man da, okay, wird das Problem wieder unsicher, ne. Weil ich dann sagen, okay, hier ist meine Erfahrung, hab ich schon mal gemacht, hab ich schon mal gesehen. Weiß ich, funktioniert nicht. Lass mal gleich vermeiden, Ja. Dass man gleich den Weg langgehen. Das hilft halt schon, ne. Muss man nicht irgendwie den Fehler mehrmals machen im Leben. Ja, cool. Ich glaub, Dennis hat das gemeint, wir müssen 'n bisschen weitergehen, sonst wird unser Zeitbudget hier schwierig, ne. Aber wie Oder willst Du willst Du die Frage zum Übergang machen? Jein, also eine Kleinigkeit noch, vielleicht zu so hier so einfach, dass wir 'n Business einordnen können, was die Größe so anging. Also mit wie vielen Leuten hast Du damals da zusammengearbeitet und wie stark hat sich das auch Unternehmen weiterentwickelt, während Du die 5 Jahre 5 Jahre bei bei hier warst? Also Teamgröße war, ich muss ja, 'n bisschen in neuen CVina schauen, das ist schon sehr lange her, aber ich glaub, es waren so 20 plus Leute, ne. Das war halt Mischmaß aus Infrastruktur, weil wir da wirklich auch Server selber gebaut haben. Da fing Amazon grade an, ABS. Nicht Amazon, sondern ABS fing grade an. Infrastrukturteam, Programmmanagement, Produktmanagement und so was. Und dann, das war mein Team, aber das, was wir geliefert haben, ging halt eigentlich über das komplette Organisation, weil das halt Produkte aus verschiedenen Teams waren, die wir zusammen paketiert haben als Plattformen, ne. Also der Skope war schon größer als die 20 Leute, was was Produktmanagement angeht oder Programmmanagement war das ja dann im Endeffekt. Genau. Und hier hat sich halt dann weiterentwickelt mehr Richtung Plattformen, dass es heute ist, ne. Also wirklich, das waren so die die ersten Tage von dem, was man heute sieht, als. Dass man eine Plattform hat mit APIs, die verkauft mit Services und Top und so weiter. In die Richtung ging das dann ganz klar. Wir hatten mehrere Kunden, wir hatten Bing. Wir hatten dann auch, na ja gut, Microsoft, wie ist das so was? Die hatten ja reines Mobile Windowsphone einfach, oder? Ja, Windowsphone, genau. Da war 'n Metall von, was da lief da nicht so gut wie er letztes Jahr. Genau, weiß, ob gapla, Amazon, die uns genutzt hat und so weiter. Das hat sich einfach weiter ausgebaut, ne. Und meine meine, bevor ich dann gegangen bin, haben wir das Ganze dann auch auf AWS gehoben, weg von unseren eigenen Servern global Data Center auf AWS Cloud. Genau, das war so die die technische Weiterentwicklung dann von der Plattform. Ja, schade damals, mit Duden das vorne. Ich fand das eigentlich 'n ganz netten Ansatz, muss ich sagen. Also von dem, was sagen, es war es war halt zu spät. Ja. Genau, zu spät und 3 Player ist halt schwierig, ne. Ja. 3 Ökosysteme, ja. Wenn Bing damals schon ein Thema war, hat dich die Verbindung auch zu deinem nächsten Job zu Skype gebracht oder was völlig unabhängig? Gar nicht. Glaub nicht. Das war eigentlich privat. Also ich, meine Freundin zu dem Zeitpunkt war aus Tschechien, hat 'n Englisch gesprochen, hat mit mir in Berlin gelebt. Dann gesagt so, okay, sprachlich nicht so einfach für sie. Warum ziehen wir nicht in ein englischsprachliches Land, dass wir mehr gleichgestellt sind, was zumindest die Sprachen angeht? Und noch mal als Ziel irgendwie, in die USA zu ziehen. Und zu dem Zeitpunkt hat mich dann irgendwie Skype angepinkt und meint so, hey, wir haben da eine Rolle in Seattle, bist Du interessiert. Und dann bin ich da in den Prozess eingestiegen, wie Du aber vielleicht in meinem Lebenslauf siehst. Ich hab's nie in die USA geschafft. Zu sehen. Nächste Frage gewesen. Genau. Also ich war dann, weil ich kein Visum hatte für 'n Job in den USA, bin ich erst mal nach Stockholm umgezogen für ein Jahr. Das war der Plan, da noch 'n Visa zu bekommen. Es gibt diese L-eins-Visa, die bekommt man dann automatisch. In dem Jahr wurde meine Frau bescheuert. Und dann hat sich, da hat die Familienplanung sozusagen den Umzug verhindert, weil weil das doch zu weit weg war, ne, ne. Also wir haben gesagt, okay, wenn wir 'n Kind haben, wollen wir nie an den an der an der Familie sein und sind an den Schweden geblieben. Genau. Mein Team war aber verteilt. Also ich hatte Team in Stockholm, Team in Redmond, Team in Estonia. Von da hat's eigentlich keine Rolle gespielt, wo ich war. Und wir sind dann in Stockholm geblieben. Das heißt, was war deine Rolle dann bei Skype? Bei Skype bin ich eingestiegen als Direktor, wie hieß es damals? Test. Mhm. Zu dem Zeitpunkt hatte Skype noch 3 Disziplinen, Produktmanagement, Software Engineering und Software Engineering und Test, also Testautomatisierung und hab die Teams geleitet, die Testinfrastruktur, Testautomatisierungen bereitstellen. Also bei Skype war ja die Challenge, wie testet man den Skype Client? Das ist ja jetzt nicht irgendwie 'n Standard Tool, was man irgendwie runterladen kann im Internet. Mhm. Drum ist irgendwie Audioqualität, Videoqualität in 'nem Skype oder Skype Gruppen Call testen können, automatisiert. Und das hat mein Team damals bereitgestellt, diese diese Infrastruktur, das Tooling dafür. Genau. Und dann, aber es gab in der Zeit auch, ich glaub, 5, wo ich da war, hatte dann auch verschiedene Rollen, hat dann teilweise auch andere Teams mit mir übernommen. War aber superspannend, weil Skype grade weggegangen ist von der Peer to Peer Architektur, was ja so der Haupt, die Haupt von Skype war. Na, war das? Am Anfang war das alles Peer to Peer, das hatt ich gar nicht son. Ja. Das war alles Peer to peace, was auch eine sehr, sehr geile Technologie ist. Kosteneffizient auf jeden Fall? Funktioniert leider nur nicht, wenn die Welt Richtung Mobiltelefonen gehst. Also wenn wenn Leute halt verstärkt Mobiltelefone nutzen, weil Skype halt einen der Clients immer als Relay verwendet hat. Mhm. Ne. Das heißt, grade wenn Du 'n Gruppencall hast, dann war 1 der Skype Clients der derjenige, der dann das Multiplexen der Videostreams gemacht hat und da ist halt schon sehr, sehr intensiv, was Rechenleistung angeht. Genau, deswegen ist man weggegangen von der Peer to Peer zu 'ner cloudbasierten Architektur. Außerdem hat man ja Skype und Microsoft damals, aber grad zu dem Zeitpunkt gab's so die Verschmelzung von, damals hieß das noch, Ich weiß nicht, ob wir das noch kennen. Sehr lange, ja. Ganz wildes Punkt, ja. Ich hatte mal Memory League. 15 Minuten ist das Ding abgestürzt, konnt man die Uhr nachstellen. Genau. Also es gab und Skype und das haben wir halt verheiratet in einem Produkt. Skype for Business und Skype. Und war halt cloudbasiert und Skype Peer to be und dann haben wir halt komplett, haben wir's eigentlich komplett neu geschrieben auf eine cloud basierte Architektur. War das dann damals 'n großes Thema so, Peer to Peer to Peer to Cloud? Weil ich mein, der Business Case muss ja schon 'n komplett anderer gewesen sein dann damals, oder? Weil ich mir, also ich hatte nur mal, wir hatten mal für Lotum haben wir auch mal so mal überlegt, ob wir ein Game bauen mit irgendwie Videochatten, weil bestimmte Funktionalitäten wollten auch überlegt, ob wir das mal selbst bauen. Da hatte ich mal son paar Brotschuppen gebaut und mal irgendwie Kostenhochrechnung gemacht und so was, wenn das, wenn wir dafür dann doch Serverinfrastruktur nehmen und so, ich sag mal so für einen Game an sich hat sich's nicht gerechnet so. Ja. Das aber das können wir vorstellen, dass das bei Skype durchaus auch, wenn es genau die Phase wurde da warst, durchaus Thema war so. Also Also weißt Du jetzt aus eurer aus 'ner Kostensicht? Ja, aus 'ner Kostensicht auch, ja, weil ich mir vorstellen kann, dass es Also Kosten interessanterweise war kein Thema. War aber halt auch Microsoft Ja, klar. Schon mal, ja. Ich glaub, Skype so als freies Produkt, da macht halt Peer to Peer Sinn. Mhm. Aber kostengünstig. Aber deutlich, dass Microsoft Skype aufgekauft hat, ging's halt eher darum, daraus 'n kommerzielles Produkt zu machen. Und halt die Skype Technologie, also grade die Audio- und Videokodex damals noch, einfach zu verwenden für auch den den Businessteil, der halt jetzt im Office mit irgend so nicht nicht sehr prickelnd war. Und da ging's halt eher darum, eine Lösung für Business bereitzustellen, wo's grade Gruppen Calls geht und auch große Meetings und so weiter mit 1000 plus Leuten. Und da, das kannst Du halt nur cloudbasiert machen, das geht nicht p to p basiert. Ja. Das andere Problem war halt, dass der Skype Code, der war halt auch schon irgendwie 10 Jahre alt, da gab's halt Teile von Code, weiß nicht, ob man das erzählen darf, aber gab's gar nicht mehr als Hauscode, sondern nur auch als Inair. Und keiner keiner konnte das Ding ja auch irgendwie lesen oder oder mit arbeiten. Also Skype, kurz bevor ich gestartet bin, war ein Jahr sone Art Feature Freeze, weil keiner was releasen konnte, weil das Ding so broken war. Krass. Und da haben wir gesagt, okay, jetzt müssen wir was tun. Und hat dann diese Entscheidung getroffen, auf glaub passiert zu denen, ne. Ja, interessant. Ja, krass. Ich wollte noch mal son bisschen auf die Motivation. Also einmal in die USA zu kommen war eine Motivation, aber war jetzt technisch dann doch was anderes als jetzt eine Map Plattform zu bauen oder zumindest so vom vom Produkt her? Würdest Du sagen, da bist Du eher produktgetrieben oder technologiegetrieben? Also was was hat dich so motiviert an den Stellen? Oder was war tatsächlich? Ich glaub, also beides, glaub ich. Technologie oder warum Skype für mich interessant war und Skype bei mir interessiert war, war als skalierbare, cloud basierte Services. Das hab ich bei Nokia gemacht mit mit großen Kunden, die halt unsere Mapplattform verwendet haben mit entsprechenden Traffic, dass sie genau das, was Skype zu den Zeitungen wollte, dass sie auf die cloudbasierte Lösung gehen. Von daher war das 'n ganz guter Fit, dass ich da Erfahrung hatte, wie man skalierbare Services baut. Und für mich war das Produkt halt interessant, ne, weil's halt 'n hat. Skype hat halt Leute verbunden, 300000000 User damals noch. Ist halt schon geil, ne, wenn Du halt wenn die Oma den Enkel anrufen kann und und die sich über Video unterhalten können. Das ist halt schon noch mal eine andere Liga, ne. Anstatt jetzt eine Mapplattform zu bauen. Also von der Produktsicht auch interessant. Und dann halt als Teil von Microsoft halt spannend auch zu sehen, wie sich das dann integriert an andere Produkte und so weiter und da diese Entwicklung auch zu sehen. Ist halt megaspannend mit. Wolltest Du noch was anderes fragen, Fabi? Nee, ich wir können gerne weiter zu Klarna. Überlass dir. Ja, Klarna, die zumindest Standardtier in der Nähe. Ich weiß gar nicht, haben wahrscheinlich auch noch oder nur hatten, weißt Du, das war wie in Glaub ja, ja. In Duisburg. Der der CTOs war bis vor Kurzem, wenigen der Jahren, das war mein beim Peer bei Klarna, ja. Ja, Klarna, wie ist es da zu dem Wechsel gekommen? Warum wo Genau. Also, genau. Ja. Also Skype Stockholm war halt, war 'n Team 180 Leute ungefähr. Die haben sich spezialisiert auf Audio- und Videokodex. Das gleiche Team hatte man in den USA, in Seattle, nur auf Microsoft Seite. Mhm. Und dann war es halt fast 'n Jahr lang irgendwie im Battle. Wer hat den geileren Codec? Wer hat den geilere Codebase? Und dann war's relativ klar absehbar, dass Microsoft jetzt nicht sehr daran interessiert ist, irgendwie 'n Stockholm Office noch weiter zu betreiben, grade wenn's drum ging, das in die Office Produktsuite mit zu integrieren. Mhm. Da wollen sie doch mehr Kontrolle haben. Und dann waren's natürlich abzusehen, dass Skype wahrscheinlich in Stockholm zumindest runterskaliert oder vielleicht gar nicht mehr existiert. Und genau, und zu dem Tappung gab's dann auch Diskussionen. 'N Freund von mir, 'n Kollege von mir, der war's grad mit dem war, der ist zu Klarna gewechselt und hat mich dann irgendwie 'n 300 Spieler angerufen und hat gesagt, hey, willst nicht zu Klarna kommen? Und genau, bin ich bei Klarna eingestiegen. Cool. Und jetzt was was war da deine Aufgabe, was war deine Rolle bei Klarna? Genau, komplett andere Aufgabe. Und zwar war ich da eigentlich so halt, ja, böse gesagt Projektmanagement, aber Delivery Management. Also Klarna war Größenordnung im Bereich 200 Leute ungefähr, 250 Leute. Und hat extreme Probleme gehabt, irgendwie größere Initiativen, also größere Produkte zu launchen. Haben grade versucht, 'n Kreditprodukt aufzusetzen. Das nennt sich heute Klararanzzahlung, glaub ich, oder oder so was. Und das ist halt irgendwie kläglich gescheitert. Und dann mal son bisschen die die Quintessenz, ja, wir sind irgendwie, wir sind sehr gut in der Produktion wirklich in einzelnen Teams. Aber wenn's darum geht, irgendwas über mehrere Teams hinweg zu liefern, komplettes Failure. Und hat dann diese Rolle Delivery Manager eingeführt. Klarna war damals, bei Klarna war der Marty Kaagen. Mhm. Der kam halt irgendwie einmal im Jahr rein und hat sie zusammengeschaut und gesagt, hier, das müsst ihr fixen, das war nicht gut. Und eine von den Action Items aus dem Workshop war halt, ihr müsst 'n Deliver Manager einstellen. Und das war ich, bin dann halt eingestiegen, hab dann zusammen mit dem CPO, CEO, CTO haben uns überlegt, okay, wie wie können wir eine andere Arbeitsweise aufsetzen, die halt auch funktioniert über Teams hinweg. Und hab dann da son kleines Team aufgebaut mit Delivery Managern, die halt sich speziell son große Initiativen gekümmert haben. Als Beispiel halt dieses Kreditproduktlaune, ne. Und das hab ich son halbes Jahr gemacht, 9 Monate ungefähr. Und bin dann gewechselt Richtung wieder Standard Engineing Rolle. Also hab dann 'n Payment Team mit übernommen, hab dann 'n Plattformteam mit aufgebaut, also 'n Core Payment Team, die also Payment Gatebie und so was gebaut haben. Und dann 'n Plattformteam aufgebaut, was es damals auch noch nicht so gab. Genau. Hatte dann auch wieder recht diverse Bandbreite oder recht große Bandbreite an Rollen. Mhm. Deliry Management, Core Payments und Plattformteam. Ja. Ja, supercool. Vielleicht als kleine, als Seitenwork Marty Kaagens ja auch bei uns bei Lottem großes Thema, also unsere Product Manager Rolle orientiert sich auch sehr an seinen Büchern Ja. Inspiriert und empowered. Also hier noch mal sehr als große Empfehlung gerne gerne lesen. Ist bei uns 1 der Bibeln, die auch Neuankömmlinge immer aufn Tisch gelegt wird. So, das mal lesen. Ja. Find ich auch sehr interessant, dass dann dieser Delivery Managervorschlag auch ihm dann damals kaum in seiner Rolle als Berater bei Klarna. Vielleicht dazu die Frage, wenn das ein Problem war, was sie hatten, was bisher noch keiner ausgefüllt hat und dich jetzt zumindest in deiner Erklärung Delivery Manager noch nicht in deinen Vorrollen gesehen hat. Also warum hat man dich gefragt, dass Du dieser Delivery Manager wirst, der diese Probleme löst? Ist gute Frage, ne. Ich glaub, der der mein Kollege bei Klarna, der mich dann dort angerufen hat, der ist dort eingestiegen als, ich glaub, Director Engineering oder. Ich glaub, Director Engineering. Der hat das dann halt auch gesehen, dass es da Probleme gibt in dem Bereich, auch basierend auf dieser Analyse. Und hatte anscheinend den Eindruck, dass ich da vielleicht ganz gut drin bin. Weil ich, glaub ich, relativ strukturiert bin und auch relativ gut bin, irgendwie so Sachen zu organisieren, 'n großes zu haben und auf Deliver auch stark fokussiert bin, ne, in meiner ganzen Karriere. Geht wieder zurück trägt, Center wahrscheinlich, wo ich halt da sehr stark dort fokussiert war. Und hab mich angerufen. Und dann dacht ich so, okay, ist meine ganz andere Rolle. Bin halt wieder sozusagen als eingestiegen, weil ich erst mal alleine war. Und fand das eigentlich ganz spannend, weil ich da auch irgendwie mal 600 sehr Zeit hatte, mich so auf ein Thema mit halt zu fokussieren. In Skype hatt ich irgendwie so 80, 90 Leute. Das war halt global verteilt und all so klassisches. Managment und so weiter und das war halt eine komplett andere Rolle, fand ich ja sehr spannend. Und anscheinend bring ich die Attribute mit, die die die die dazu führen, dass ich das irgendwie hinbekomme. Zumindest gab's ja das Vertrauen wieder. Ja, wahrscheinlich könnte man eine ganze Podcastfolge alleine über über diesen Themenbereich machen, aber auch da würd's mich tatsächlich nicht mal so interessieren, einfach von der von der Stimmung und der Kultur vielleicht auch, weil ich mir vorstelle, ne, da sind irgendwie, sagt das irgendwie Run about 200 Entwickler in den in den Teams waren und jetzt kommt da son Delivery Manager, der hingesetzt wird, den man vielleicht auch vorher nicht kennt. Ja. Wie war so die die Akzeptanz und also Kommunikation zu was müssen wir anders machen, kannst Du da ein bisschen, also war viel Widerstand, musste man da irgendwie, auch weiß ich nicht, sich von Leuten trennen, wo es wo das von Mindset nicht passt. Also was waren so die die großen Herausforderungen vielleicht so aus kultureller Sicht? Ja. Also kulturell ist sone Rolle immer schwierig, ne, weil das ist halt so, da kommt jemand rein, der ist nicht in son Team, sondern da kommt so und und will irgendwie mitdrehen und koordinieren. Ist erst mal wahrscheinlich, zumindest bei einigen Leuten kann man ganz klar sehen, Ablehnung, ne oder so. Was ist denn deine was sind dein Value Ads hier, so nach dem Motto. Aber ich glaub, das ist dann eher die Frage, wie man's angeht und wie man, dass man halt Mehrwert zeigt in der Rolle und ganz klar nicht zu stark in die Teams reingeht und diktiert, sondern wirklich eigentlich 'n Framework bereitstellt, wo die Teams immer noch sehr autonom agieren können, aber wo man halt Alignment schafft zwischen den Teams. Wenn Du dieses Alignment schaffst, dass die Leute sehen, ah okay, wenn wir und wir uns vernünftig allein und abstimmen und ein Ziel haben, dann macht das auch Sinn für uns, weil wir dann als Company 'n Mehrwert liefern. Du musst also relativ schnell eine Art Framework schaffen, Arbeitsweise schaffen, wo Teams halt 'n Mehrwert auch drin sehen und nicht nur 'n Overhappt. Weil das Problem ist meistens bei diesen Rollen, dass Du mit welchen Prozessen ankommst. Und dann halt so Projektmanagements da irgendwie Teams halt mit Arbeit zu Ballast, die erst mal wahrscheinlich keinen Sinn macht für sie. Von daher muss halt so diesen diesen diese Grat vernommen inzwischen, ich helf euch. Und ihr seht den Mehrwert relativ schnell versus Prozess Overhead für die Teams, ne? Das ist so die Balance. Und was was war denn 'n Allimment Tool dafür? Also für so die die Ja. Also der der Witz war das Problem noch nicht in Teams, sondern vielleicht müssen wir das dann rausschneiden, mal gucken. Ja. Das Problem war halt klassisch wie niemanden Start-up, FounderLab, ne, Founder, CPO haben geile Ideen, die ändern sich aber auch regelmäßig. Und dann gibt's noch die Idee und dann gibt's auch die Idee und dann rennt der Founder zu dem Engineering Team und sagt, hey, hier könnt ihr das mal umsetzen, weil das ist irgendwie beste Zeit, beste Idee. Und das sorgt dann dafür, dass Sachen nicht geliefert werden. Das heißt, was ich erst mal gemacht hab, ist halt, wir haben uns zusammen gesagt, hat gesagt, okay, was sind eigentlich die Topthemen? Was ist 'n Business kritisch? Ja, ist ja ganz klar. Ist das ist das Kreditprodukt? Ja, okay. Lass uns doch mal so die Top 3, 4 Initiativen identifizieren und die ganz klar kommunizieren und sagen, das sind so die Topsachen, an die jeder sich fokussieren sollte, ne. Und das haben wir gemacht. Da hab ich noch gesehen, dass es relativ schwer ist, sich daran zu halten. Mhm. Und das war dann irgendwie 3 Wochen später waren's dann irgendwie wieder 3 andere Gut, von wer wer kann sich später daran halten? Bestimmt nicht die Teams. Ja, genau. Und dann ist es halt eher und dafür sorgen, dass wir ganz klar kommunizieren, was sind die Top Prios? Und dann halt da eine Framework schaffen, wo Du sagst, okay, ihr lingt jetzt mal eure hier in diese ganzen in die in die 3, 4 Initiativen rein und dann haben wir 'n Reporting drüber und sehen, wo wir stehen und was noch fehlt und so weiter. Also 'n Reporting dann aufsetzen, dass wir da auch alle sind, was diese 3 Initiativen angeht. Aber primär ist das dann halt CPO, dass wir halt nicht die Prioritäten alle 3 Wochen ändern und Teams halt so sonen Seiler links und rechts gehen. Das wär dann echt so die Manchere Menschen. Ne. Der der ist son Google Sheet, da hat er sone Prioritätennummer bring geman Management, also das ist ja immer 10 Stück. Ich so, ja, okay. Aber die ändern sich jede Woche. Und Du, der hat dann mal, also wortwörtlich hat er die Zeilen dann immer hin- und herverschoben jede Woche irgendwie. Und ständig hat sich irgendwas geändert, 'n bisschen, das geht nicht, das kann's nicht machen. Und haben dann halt also wirklich in der in der Klarna, in diesem in dieser Social Area, in Küchenbereich haben wir dann so Dashboards gehabt, wo wir so die Top 3 Initiativen, dass jeder gesehen hat. Und das Kreditding war halt top, ja. Und das hat sie auch nicht geändert fürs nächste halbe Jahr. Und da haben haben alle gearbeitet. Und dann halt auch visualisiert, welche Teams da reinarbeiten, Wo stehen die Teams? Was fehlt noch? Wann wollen wir launchen? Business mit reingeholt. Gesagt, warum arbeiten wir daran? Was ist das Why dahinter? Warum ist das wichtig für die Company? Warum wollen wir das überhaupt launchen und was ist der? Dieses Framework zu schaffen, ne? Ich glaub, das ist halt wichtig. Und diese Vorstellung von dem Framework, ich fang jetzt grade so, woher hast Du das Know how gehabt, dieses Also ich mein, klar, es klingt ja irgendwie erst mal, ist relativ einfach so, ja gut, wir müssen die Prioritäten klarziehen. Wir müssen den Teamskommission, was die Prioritäten sind. Aber wenn Du da trotzdem sone Rolle das erste Mal kommst, woher hattest Du dieses Know how? War das einfach wirklich gelernt oder wie wie einfach gut Viel Skype. Mhm. Ja. Wir von Skype. Weil die haben halt so was gemacht, ne. Weil die halt, Skype hatte halt noch eine größere Engineering Organisation. Und da hatte man so Frameworks eingeführt, Planungs Frameworks so. Und von Nokia halt das Ganze, son bisschen der Probermanager Hintergrund, den ich da hatte. Aber da gab's nicht Probleme. Man muss eine Yahoo Plattform zum Beispiel 'n Datum liefern. Mhm. Alignment über Teams hinweg und so weiter. Das war halt genau auch der Job da, ne. Also Erfahrungen aus diesem Programmmanagement und dann halt bei Skype ganz konkret das Framework halt. Natürlich angepasst auf Klarna, das war nur schon mal eine ganz andere Version, aber also der Hintergrund davon, das kommt von Sripe, ne. Cool. Ich will jetzt mal nach Klarna im Endeffekt, wir haben ja nennen das Ganze hier CTO Special, wir haben ja auch schon erzählt, Du bist aktuell CTO CTO von Blacklane. Nach Klarna kam der erste CT, also nach Titel her CTO Job so. Das war dann bei Join ProSieben. Ja. Wie kam der Wechsel und war das irgendwie, also empfindest Du das als einen großen Schritt oder war das einfach nur, also ein ein anderer, der der ein ähnlicher Job mit einem anderen Titel? Also der der Wechsel kam persönlich bedingt, dass wir zurück wollten nach Deutschland. Und die Rolle CTO Rolle war, glaub ich, von der von der Größe der Organisation ähnlich. Aber ich glaub, dass Stakeholder war noch mal anders, ne. Grade bei 1 ProSieben, was ja doch eher Corporate ist und nicht Tech Company, nicht produktorientiert, war da, glaub ich, jetzt weniger die der Titel, die Challenge, sondern die Rolle halt in soner Art von Organisation erfolgreich zu sein, ne. Das war, glaub ich, eher der große Unterschied. Und war das, weil Du grade meines persönlicher umschreibe, war das aber etwas, also wie wie hast Du dich, war das etwas darauf beworben? War das auch wieder Vitamin b oder jemand, der dich angerufen hat oder wie wie wie kam es dazu? Also die meisten Jobs waren eher so, irgendjemand hat mich kontaktiert und meinte, Du hast Interesse. Mhm. Das war jetzt nicht aktive Suche. Ja, ich hab nie wirklich aktiv gesucht. Das hat sich ergeben irgendwie durchs Netzwerk oder Headamt oder was auch noch. Und genau, und und dann war halt Dokumentationen halt 'n Aspekt, ne, wo nach Schweden, wo wollen wir hin? Berlin, München. Und das hat sich daran geben, München. Gut. Und dann als Du als Du kamst, warst Du noch für Digital Entertainment und dann ab 19 war's dann wirklich Join. So gab's ich hab den Hintergrund von Join eigentlich gar nicht. Wurdest da dann erst gelauncht oder hast Du Genau, das waren sie ein Venture. Also ich bin eingestiegen bei bei ProSieben, in der ProSieben selber, hab da die Assets, die ProSieben selber verantwortet hat, also Zot 1, ProSieben Webseiten, Apps und so weiter verantwortet. Und dann gab's die Max Dome, ich weiß nicht, wie das noch kennt oder so. Mhm. Ja. Genau. Und dann gab's halt die Diskussion, okay, macht das nicht Sinn, was irgendwie zusammenzuführen. Und das Ganze in 'ner Partnerschaft, also 'n Joint Venture mit vergessen, mit einem Streaming, großen Content Providern, 'n Joint Venture zu machen und das aus der aus der ganzen aus dem ProSieben kommen wir am Rad, halt 'n eigenes eigenes Büro und so weiter. Das war relativ schnell klar, so nach 'nem halben Jahr ungefähr. Und dann ging's halt darum, das aufzubauen und die Leute mit rüberzuziehen und so weiter. Und dann haben wir ja, dann haben wir das Ding halt fürn Sketch aufgebaut, dieses Streamingplattform. Was war die Hauptmotivation, das zu separieren? Also wenn ihr auch technische Teams irgendwie da hattet, aber es dann trotzdem Ja, einfach Oder wenn ich's dann vom Konzern, wenn wir ja so Start-up, weil Du hast halt schon, wenn Du am Campus bist, hast Du also diese Corporatekultur und 'n Board und Betriebsrat und das ganze Zeug, was dir halt viel Energie raubt, glaub ich. Mhm. Mhm. Und halt auch das Mindset, ne. Also dass Du weißt, okay, wir sind hier eigenständig, wir sind eigene Company. Und halt aus 'ner legalen Sicht, wenn Du 'n Joint Venture hast mit 'ner anderen Company, dass auch der Joint Venture Partner, der mit drin ist, auch sieht, okay, das ist eigenständig, ne. Und es gibt, ihr seid nicht irgendwie hier noch als Teil von der von der anderen Company irgendwie untergebracht, sondern physikalisch eigenständig, aber auch vom Mindset her eigenständig. Auch was Entscheidungstrafungen angeht und so weiter. Wir sind, wir waren wirklich autonom, ne. Das ist schon wichtig. Ja, wie groß wartet das das Team, was ihr dann da neu gegründet habt oder wie die das Joint Venture, das ihr gegründet habt? Also als ich als ich dazugekommen bin, waren es, wenn ich 6 Leute oder so was. Was. Und hab dann aber Leute mitgenommen von der ProSieben. Es gab dann halt Diskussionen, jeden gefragt aus meinem ehemaligen Team an der ProSieben, habt ihr Lust? Ist halt ist halt 'n Holocaust. Ungefähr die Hälfte am Team ist, glaub ich, ja, ungefähr die Hälfte. Ist ungefähr mitgekommen, hat gesagt, haben wir Bock drauf. Und den Rest haben wir aufgebaut, ne. Irgendwie 250 Leute zu Pik Zeiten. Auch viele Externe, auf viel Osteuropa und so was, also Externe genutzt, weil wir halt ungefähr 9 Monate Zeit hatten, das Produkt zu launchen. Also da gab's Wie kriegt man denn in der Zeit auch so viele Externe dann? Also also es eher, also alleine irgendwie orchestriert, dass die an dem gleichen Ding arbeiten und dass es 'n Mehrwert bringt, so zu Also wieder runterbrechen, also das Problem, wir müssen eine Streamingplattform bauen, welche welche Komponenten gibt es? Welche Module gibt es? Und dann halt in Teams aufteilen und dann halt die Teams socen. Das hat ungefähr so 3 Monate gedauert, bis wir dann sozusagen definiert haben, wo wir gesagt haben, okay, das können wir jetzt eigenständig in son Team gehen, die dann irgendwo, damals war das noch, ja, Ukraine teilweise, Polen, die dann an an bestimmten Komponenten gearbeitet haben, ne. Es gab dann irgendwie, als Beispiel, Du musst halt eine Plattform bauen, Content zu injoston mit entsprechenden, ja. Also Du hast ja in diesem ganzen Medienbusiness relativ viele rechte, komplexe rechte Systeme. Mhm. Wann darfst Du was ausstrahlen und so weiter. Da gab's 'n Team, der haben nichts anderes gemacht für 6 Monate, als das Ding zu bauen. Und das ist relativ eigenständig, ne. Oder den Videostreaming Service für Livestream. Das kannst Du relativ monularisieren. Und dann hast Du halt 'n Team, dem machen nix anderes, aber relativ eigenständig. Und am Ende muss es halt zusammenkommen, ne, in in der UX und so weiter. Aber das kann man relativ grundunterbrechen das Problem, sondern Streaming Plattformen. Frontend wird halt schwierig, ne, aber zum Beispiel eine 'n Frontend zu bauen für eine TV Plattform, irgendwie Android auf auf Sony oder so was, kannst Du halt komplett outsourcen. Das sind Webfrontland Entwickler, das heißt, hier ist das Design, hier sind die Specs von dem Fernseher und dann geh ich mitm Baumer. Das können wir also schon schon recht gut skalieren. Das heißt, war's am Ende auch so, wenn ich mir jetzt son, wenn mir grad überlegt, wie son Set-up dann son bisschen aussieht, war das dann, da ich das ja vorher modularisiert hab? Ihr habt irgendwie in 'ner CTO, CPO mit Designern Rolle bisschen Zusammengabe und das Produkt definiert und dann son bisschen bestimmte, keine Ahnung, was technischeres, eigene Teams oder wenn sie extern irgendwo anders waren irgendwie geheiert und wenn Design ready war, das habt ihr in eurer Runde dann gemacht. Das wurde zum Beispiel an einen externen Webdesigner dann gegeben. Also so die Design haben ihr an euch gearbeitet als mit dem mit den Umsetzungsteams? Also die wir hatten 'n extrem starken Designer, Mhm. Der mit 'ner Agentur zusammengearbeitet hat. Die haben uns das Konzept erstellt, wie die UX generell aussehen soll, das bX Paradime und haben da relativ viel am Anfang investiert, weil wir auch 'n Pitch bauen mussten für die Investoren, also die beiden Owner, wie wir uns das Produkt vorstellen. Und das war dann die Basis. Und als wir das hatten, konnten wir ja nicht loslegen, ne. Und dann konnten wir skalieren. Was wir aber gemacht haben, ist halt bei Join, ich sag jetzt nicht, dass ich Fan davon bin, aber eingesetzt, also PII Planning. Also wir haben uns einmal, ich weiß nicht, ich glaub einmal im Monat sogar, 'n anderen Quartal einmal 'n Quartal getroffen und haben halt das Ding durchgeplant, ne, projektmäßig. Da will ich jetzt nicht wieder machen. Kannst Du dazu noch 2 Sätze zu? Ich glaub's nicht jedem Begriff Nummer. Ah, okay. Framework Framework. Mhm. Wird gerne eingesetzt von von Corpels und so weiter, in Anführungsstrichen Planungssicherheit zu haben. Glaub ich nicht, dass das existiert. Aber was ist halt, es hat halt geholfen, alle, wirklich alle Leute zusammenzubringen in 1 Location für ein, 2 Tage, wirklich versuchen durchzuplanen und eine Alimon zu schaffen, ne. Weil anders kannst Du nicht 200 Leute irgendwie in die in die gleiche Richtung schicken, das funktioniert nicht. Und da hat uns, glaub ich, geholfen, ne. Dass wir einfach die Zeit investiert haben, 2 Tage zusammensetzen, einen Raum in Anführungsstrichen, das war eine Lokation. Und da einfach versuchen zu planen und und Protein dann rauszufinden, okay, was sind meine Abhängigkeiten, was müsst ihr liefern und so weiter. Ich glaub, das hat geholfen, ne. Würd ich jetzt für eine normale Produkteinwirkung nicht machen, aber wir so, Deadlinebasierte Projekte hilft das halt schon, wo man eine ganz klare Vorgaben hat, ne, von Investoren oder externen Stakeholdern. Ja. Genau. Genau, weil wie gesagt, Design war ab Front, viel Investment, ne. Und dann hatte man 'n Konzept und 'n und 'n High Level Design zumindest und konnt dann die Teams halt eigentlich nicht da weitermachen pro Plattform, iOS Web und so weiter. Ja. Ja, so sehr spannend. Also sehr stressig. Ja, das Ich hatte auch kurz überlegt, als ich Du noch mal zurückgeblickt, wann Du mir erzählt hast, dass Du Vater geworden bist und ich mir dann Also zum Beispiel eine Frage, die mir auf der Zunge gewandt war, ich hab jetzt mal geschätzt, dein Kind muss vielleicht 5 gewesen sein oder sowas und Du hast ja jedem der Company gefragt, hey, wer hat Lust mitzukommen? Dann kam mir eigentlich die Frage so, war dir denn klar auf jeden Fall, das willst Du und willst Du machen? Weil son, das ist ja bestimmt auch ein nicht geringer, zeitlicher Investment, irgendwie 'n Rollercoaster, den man sich bestimmt auch zweimal fragt, wenn man Nee, die Frage stellt ich mir nicht. Nee? Also ich fand's einfach nur geil. Also ich mein, wann ab an die Möglichkeit, eine Streamingplattform vom Scratch aufzubauen, grade, wenn man technisch ist. Da ist halt Greenfield, ne und ist so geil. Also ich bin halt immer up für eine Challenge. Also zieht sich durch meine Karriere. Auch bei Xentral haben wir schon, ne. Immer so ins kalte Wasser geschmissen worden, bisschen untergegangen und dann angefangen zu schwimmen. Das ist so mein Ding. Das brauch ich, glaub ich. So funktionier ich, ne. Ja, hat ja vielleicht 'n bisschen, was Du im Studium meintest, ne, dazu hat's niemand gesagt, oder ich weiß nicht, vielleicht hat ja jemand gesagt, das schaffst Du nicht, eine Streamingplattform aufzubauen, aber so, das ist ja, die sich selbst zu beweisen, man kann es so, ne, also. Genau. Und da ist das Pattern, ja. Ja, das zieht sich durch, ja. Ja. Das war aber schon als als Kind so. Also Fahrrad selber operiert, keine Ahnung, wie's geht, aber lass mal rausfinden. Genau, und bei Joan ist das nicht. Ich hab 'n Streaming davon gebaut und es gab auch riesen Riesenstress und viele, viele, auch freitags, nachts und samstags da gesessen teilweise. Aber als wir gelauncht sind und dann 200 Leute im Raum hatten und live gegangen sind, das war heut schon sehr geil. Also auch die Energie, die man dann sieht und so. Und dann denk ich dann so, okay, dafür hab ich gearbeitet. Und das halt schon 'n geiles Gefühl, wenn Du dann sagst, okay, das haben wir jetzt geschafft als Team. Und dann müssen wir hinbekommen, 200 Leute oder über 200 Leute. Das war ja auch nicht nur das Produkt, sondern auch Marketing dahinter und so weiter und Content und was da geil und was. Ja. Und das halt dann live zu bekommen und zu sehen als Produkt und das ist schon ist schon sehr geil, ne. Und heute bin ich Kunde. Ja, ja. Sehr schön. Schick. Freak uns vielleicht zum nächsten Job. Das ist der einzige in deinem Lebenslauf, wo mir die Company nichts sagt. Sonst waren ja alles, glaub ich, recht bekannte Dinge, die wir hatten von hier und Skype und so weiter. Klarna auch natürlich irgendwie noch. Ich weiß gar nicht, ich ich bin sogar unsicher, wie ich ausspreche einfach, weil's 2 n sind, aber, nee, wie heißt das? Sender? Sender. Sender, genau. Sender einfach. Okay. Logistik Company, ja. Logistik Company, okay. Was waren da Welche Challenge hast Du da gesucht? Genau. Genau. Die die, also auch wir sind wieder persönlich motiviert, dass wir nach Berlin zurück wollten wie in meiner Familie. Meine Familie kommt ursprünglich aus Berlin. Und Sender war halt interessant, also ganz kurz zu Join und ProSieben. Mhm. Nach dem Launch war auch relativ klar, dass es eben wieder zurückgeht Richtung ProSieben und des Join Bancher, also ja wahrscheinlich aufgelöst wird. War dann nicht mehr so spannend, weil das dann auch Corporate wohl und so weiter. Gab's die ersten Einflüsse von der ProSieben in das Produkt und so was. Fand ich nicht so prickelnd. Genau, und Sender war halt 'n VC Fundet Start-up. Das war so das, na gut, Clan aber auch VC Fundet, aber schon noch mal eine andere andere Level und Sender war halt auch eher und kleiner. Bei Sender ging's darum halt 'n superkleines Tech Team, so wie alt, 30 Leute oder so was, das halt auszubauen, ne. Also sie hatten Sender klassisch angefangen als Plattform mit wenig Tech dahinter, klassisches Junior Tech Team, die halt eine Plattform gebaut haben auf Python damals. Mhm. Mhm. Und die Plattform war aber, musste halt komplett umgebaut werden. Also war nicht mehr skalierbar, hat die Business Recoints nicht erfüllt und so weiter. Und da ging's halt darum, a, neue Plattformen aufzubauen und b, halt das Team auszubauen, halt einfach das Business da besser zu unterstützen. Das war interessant und die waren extrem interessant. Also da war in Nutthaka, war superspannend. Die haben mich im Interviewprozess eingeladen zum Dinner mit Familie. Mhm. Hatte ich so ordentlich. War aber echt geil. Also sehr, sehr nette Leute. Genau, das haben mich son bisschen überzeugt. Auch lange lange gehadert, ne. Und ich's machen sogar nicht, aber. David ist auch sehr, sehr hartnäckig, was das angeht. Gibt Licht auf. Das heißt, der ist der Interviewprozess wirklich ein 1 Schritte war, wirklich mit Familie zum Dinner kommen oder? Da hab ich noch Ja, also auch witzige Story, Familie mit meiner, also meine Frau, meine Tochter damals und mein Hund. Mhm. Und der hat einen Haufen gemacht im Davids Wohnzimmer. Ah, zum Dinner zu Hause? Ich dacht ja den Ball im Restaurant. Ihr wart bei ihm. Nee, zu Hause bei denen. Also David ist halb Italiener, kocht sehr gerne. Mhm. Kocht doch sehr gut. Und David hat damals noch zusammen gewohnt mit den anderen 2 Gründern, den Namen jetzt vergessen. Na ja, egal. Also die haben zu dritt gewohnt in 1 Wohnung und haben mich halt zum Dinner eingeladen und haben selber gekocht. Sehr lecker. Also genau. Auf jeden Fall 'n guter Ort, den potenziellen Kandidaten zu überzeugen so, würd ich sagen. Ja, genau. Nee, ist auch sehr nett halt, rauszufinden, ob man zusammenpasst Ja. Aus persönlicher Ebene. Und ja, es war halt sehr gut. Und genau. Und was habt ihr damals entschieden, wie wie der der, was war das für eine Technologie oder wie kam die Entscheidung zustande? Also ich hab ja jetzt mal so anhand der Homepage und so was gedacht, dass also Du hast ja schon gemeint so, Logistik so, also dass es eher so die Plattform geht, wie man bestimmte Logistikunternehmen mit irgendwie Orten a nach b miteinander verbindet, so. Also das ist sone Art von Plattform, das Logistikunternehmen nutzen, ihre Routen zu planen vielleicht oder so. Ist eigentlich ähnlich wie Blacklane. Mhm. Also ist 'n Marktplatz im oder oder 'n ja, too Site Marketplace. Du hast auf der einen Seite Shipper, das ist eine, das kann eine Coca Cola sein oder eine BMW oder was auch immer. Die wollen das Waren verschicken. Und auf der anderen Seite hast Du 'n relativ fragmentierten Carrier Markt. Carrier halt. Mhm. Und der sehr, sehr fragmentiert. Das heißt, Du hast halt viele kleine so, ich habe so einen Truck, 2 Trucks. Gibt halt auch große, wenn wir mit 20, 50 Trucks. Aber die ist eigentlich, diesen fragmentierten Carrier Markt mit Shippern zusammenzuräumen und diese Plattform dafür bereitzustellen. Das heißt, Du hast auf der einen Seite 'n Marktplatz für Carrier und auf der anderen Seite halt 'n, die man halt verschiedene Interfaces, wie Shipper halt ihre ihre Request da reinschicken. Genau, und das war halt eine Plattform, basierend auf Python und das haben wir halt ausgebaut, mehr Richtung serviceorientiert, shipper Portal rausgezogen, Carrier Portal rausgezogen. Dazwischen nur halt so Dispatchingangime. Und das halt versucht aus, ne, halt zu friemeln, damit das hörlehbar wird, ne. Also was die Softwareentwicklung auch angeht, ne. Es halt 'n kleines Team, der an dem an dem Code gearbeitet und das skaliert halt immer nicht mehr, ne. Man hat halt das Business ausgebremst. Genau. Und dann geht's ging's halt auch Sachen zu automatisieren. Das hat 'n sehr operatives Business, ne. Guck BMW, musst irgendwie Teile angeliefert bekommen im Freitagabend, weil sonst das Band steht und Du hast kein Carrier. Was machst Du? Genau. Und damit ist halt sehr operativ. Telefon. Genau. Und solche Sachen halt versuchen, möglichst zu automatisieren, das war so die Challenge. Also klassisches operatives Business. Ja. Obwohl da 'n guter Fund, mit dem ich kurz drum gewohnt hab, der arbeitet für eine Helikopterfirma. Das ist sind sind das die typischen Use Case, wo die Helikopter rausgeholt werden. Also das, die fliegen auch sehr häufig für für ja, so Automobilzuliefer und so, als Bänder, bevor Bänder stehen bleiben, geht der Heli in die Luft. Genau. Ist sehr, sehr teuer, ne. Ja, nee, Automobilindustrie ist natürlich sehr, sehr tough. Auch wenn Du als Carrier da 10, 15 Uhr zu spät bist, dann müssen die teilweise von Freitag auf bis auf Montagmorgen warten. Nur lassen die sich da komplett. Weil ey, sorry, dann Slot ist. Ach so. Kommen in 2 Tagen wieder. Das ist der nächste Slot. Wenn's nicht kritisch ist, wenn kritisch ist natürlich, dann entladen sie, aber ist teilweise so, dass die dann wirklich Trucker da stehen lassen 2 Tage vorm Gate und die müssen nur einfach warten. Also recht toughes Business, ja. Und ist das irgendwie einen, hat das einen gewissen, ach, das richtige Wort, einen einen neuen Ansatz oder ist das eine Digitalisierung von Prozessen, die's vorhin nicht gab? Oder ist das eine neue Produktkategorie, die das da gibt? Also einmal die Digitalisierung von Prozessen, aber eigentlich die Hauptchallenge ist Digitalisierung dieser Industrie. Mhm. Und das ist, glaub ich, der Knackpunkt und die Schwierigkeit. Das funktioniert auf der Seite, weil die meisten halt sich irgendwie terrain können. Mhm. Kannst Du mir dann 'n Webportal anbieten, wo Du deine deine oder halt oder halt oder was auch immer für Interfaces, ne. Aber auf der Carrier Seite ist es halt schwierig, weil diese Trucker halt jetzt nicht sehr digital Natives sind, ne. Also wir haben wir haben halt eine Ad gehabt, wir hatten eine Webseite, aber die haben das teilweise nicht genutzt, weil sie halt auch, also auch an die Dollesories. Aber wenn Du mitm Carrie dich zusammensetzen und sagst und übers Internet redest, dann haben sie Angst vor dem Internet, weil sie Angst haben, dass ihre Bankdaten geklaut werden und solche Geschichten. Also ganz seltsame Neigung Richtung Digitalisierung. Und da ist, glaub ich, der Hauptknapppunkt. Wie wie bekommt man da die Kombination, son Umfeld Digitalisierung zu betreiben? Gut. So Fabi, vielleicht sollten wir einfach, wenn wir, weißt Du, wenn wir mal sagen, Kim, wir können uns jetzt stressen und jetzt haben wir den Lebenslauf. Ich mein, wir erfahren ja auch so viel. Sind ja einfach super spannende Themen, die wir jetzt schon hatten. Da müssen wir einfach vorher akzeptieren, dass dass dieser Part schon viel eingenommen hat, aber auf jeden Fall war ja so spannende Sachen schon dabei. Trotzdem machen wir es noch komplett mit den Stationen, ja und vielleicht, also eine Fragestellung für deinen letzten, hab ich dann auf jeden Fall, der noch ein bisschen tiefer geht. Das CTO bei Flink. Ja. Und genau. Flink ist glaube ich so Supermarkt oder nicht Supermarkt Lebensmittelsachen bestellen innerhalb von wenigen Minuten da. Genau. So ist das davon ein bisschen. So war's am Anfang, ja. Mittlerweile ist nicht mehr. Wenige Minuten dabei, ja, genau. Also online, Ghost Street, Illuvene. Mhm. Als ich eingestiegen bin, war's unter 10 Minuten. Ich weiß nicht, ob ich nach drinnen, das war so in Coronazeiten, Gorillas und Flink. Ja. Ach ja, nur in Großstädten so, oder? Das ist die Genau. Unter 10 Minuten. Aber es war echt Hype. Also ich, mich hatte Freunde und mich irgendwann mal, ja ey, das geht so nicht. Wie macht ihr das? 8 Minuten. Ich sitz hier beim Frühstück, mach mir 'n Kaffee und ihr seid da. Wie geht das? Ja, und wie geht das? Weil das war so das war so die. Ist natürlich nicht bezahlbar, ne. Ist halt komplettes Verlustgeschäft. Von daher ist das jetzt eher zwischen 30 und 60 Minuten, glaub ich. Aber ja, es war schon sehr cool. Und was war halt mit welchem oder was war deine Challenge, als Du dahin bist? Was war was war dein Job? Was hat es zu tun bei Flink? Bei Flink vielleicht dann CTO. Also 1 der Co Founder Julian Dammes war der CPO, der Produktgemacht und 'n paar andere Themen, Marketing und so was, glaub ich. Und ich war der CTO und hab da das Team ausgebaut. Das war relativ am Anfang. Link hatte angefangen mit 'ner Acquisition, die haben eine Company gekauft, die sone Art E-Commerce-Plattform hatten mit 'ner Mobile App. Damit sind sie gestartet. Das Team haben sie auch eingekauft. Und das war relativ schnell klar, dass die Plattform eskaliert und relativ ungeeignet ist für das Businessmodell, was ich vorhin hatte. Und bin dann eingestiegen und hat das Team dann ausgebaut, dann halt die Plattform neu aufgebaut. Genau. Also ähnlich jetzt glaub ich bei Sender, nur halt anderes Business, ne. Anderes Businessmodell dahinter und andere Challenges im Endeffekt vom Tag können wir halt Plattform umbauen und 'n Team ausbauen, ja. Und gab's da irgendwie größere technologische Challenges an der Stelle oder war das dann am Ende Ja, ja. Dann? Was Nimm ich meinen, die die die Größe davon mit. Ja, also ich glaub, die die Challenge war halt, Du hast 'n extrem stark wachsendes Business mit 'ner Lieferzeit von unter 10 Minuten damals. Das heißt, wenn's irgendwo Probleme gibt, schlägt sich das direkt auf deine Lieferzeit aus, ne. Du hast halt keine Zeit für Fehler. Die das Problem war halt, superschnell wachsendes Start-up mit 'ner sehr bei Plattform. Also denk jetzt einmal noch rum, Plattformen stabilisieren, das ist halt verfügbar. Wir hatten teilweise zu Peeadszeiten nur eine Stunde Outage, ne, dass halt dann deine Formen da hinter dir stehen. Und weil ich verlier grad irgendwie 30000 Euro. Was macht ihr da? Das war halt eine interessante Challenge. Und halt generell die Funktionalität der Plattformen, weil Flink, Flinks Businessmodell basiert halt darauf, dass Du Hubs hast in den Städten. Also Du hast so diese Darkstores, ne. Und diese Darkstores ist in 'ner kleinen Lager. Mhm. Aber Du hast halt sehr viele davon. Da hast Du 'nem begrenzten Einzugskreis, wo Du liefern kannst aufgrund der Lieferzeit. Und da gibt's jetzt nicht unbedingt eine Standard E-Commerce-Plattform, wie er's kann. Also sie haben dann Commerce Tools verwendet als Standard Order Plattform, aber wir mussten halt alles drum rum bauen, was halt dafür sorgt, dass Du in diesem in diesem Modell liefern kannst. Und die Haupt Challenge war dann halt, na ja, diese, wir liefern ein Order mit einem Fahrer, der liefert die aus, kommt dann zurück, funktioniert halt nicht, was die Kosten angeht. Das heißt, Du musst halt irgendwann anfangen zu optimieren, zu sagen, okay, wir wandeln jetzt mal 2 Orders zusammen, dann nimmt der Fahrer 2 Orders mit, die irgendwie zusammenpassen, was jetzt, glaub ich, mittlerweile besteht bei 6 oder so was ist, wenn man sich die Fahrräder anschaut von flink. Und diese Optimierung, das wird halt irgendwann sehr spannend und auch sehr schwierig, ne. Das so Delivery Optimierung. Und dann hast Du halt die Optimierung, was die Warehouses angeht, dass Du halt kein keine keine keinen hast, ne, was grade Fischprodukte angeht und so weiter. Also ganze. Wie viel Bananen brauch ich an 'nem Samstag in der Woche von heute, weil wir die Bestellung aufgeben müssen und Du willst ja nicht die Bananen wegschmeißen am Samstag, weil sie nicht verkauft wurden. Das ist halt extrem. Grade in sonem stark wachsenden Business, wo Du halt wenig historische Daten hast, halt starkes Wachstum hast, da halt Forecastmodell aufbauen, ist halt schon sehr schwierig. Nichts. Davor wir vielleicht gleich zu Blackline kommen, was ich mich dir jetzt da frage, also wir jetzt mal mit deinem am Anfang auch gesagt, so Anspruch darin, bei den Dingen im Detail drin zu sein und irgendwie die richtigen Fragen stellen zu können, mir jetzt vorzustellen, okay, Du hast bestimmt ein paar Dinge davon dann auch schon bei Sender gelernt, was Du bei Flink irgendwie anwenden konntest, weil's irgendwie Logistik vielleicht 'n paar ähnliche Challenges hat, wie es dann auch Flink an der Stelle hat, aber wo Du auch meintest, so, da gibt's ja keine Standardcommerce Lösung. Ihr habt aber trotzdem eine genutzt so und wie war's jetzt auch, also Flink waren's jetzt knapp 2 Jahre, wo Du da bist so. Was hast Du getan, als Du reinkamst, in diesen Details so firm zu sein, dass Du da ausreichend mitdiskutieren kannst? Also wie ist das so, wenn Du in son neue auch Produkt? Ist ja nicht so, dass Du dass alles genau aufeinander aufgebaut hat und immer die gleiche Domäne war, in der Du dich befunden hast. Ja, ich glaub, Du Du hast halt ein ein oder 2 Probleme, auf die Du dich fokussierst, ne. Bei bei Flink, als ich reingekommen bin, war sie noch, die haben damals den komplett neu gebaut. Und der hat den kompletten Produktkatalog beim Start runtergeladen. Das waren 5 Megagmal Jason. Mhm. Und wenn Du dann eine Produktsuche gemacht hast, dann warst Du eine Expression auf diesem Jason. Mhm. Wenn Du also nach Eiscreme gesucht hast, hast Du teilweise Windeln eingezahlt. Warum auch immer? Das hast irgendwie, das wär keine Suche, ja. Also okay, das müssen wir lösen, weil das ist irgendwie das größte Problem. Mhm. Was können wir machen? Kaufen, bauen? Und dann fokussierst Du dich darauf. Und dann gehst halt rein und sagst, okay, dann haben wir damals Algolia genutzt als Search Engine. Der sagt, kaufen wir jetzt und dann löst Du das Problem. Das war das nächste Problem. Kunden können ihre Kreditkartendaten nicht absprechen, weil wir's nicht gebaut haben. Okay, dann gehst Du da rein. Also gehst halt, Du warst ja, glaub ich, 'n sehr guten, der versteht, was sind so die Hauptprioritäten. Und auf die fokussierst Du dich dann, ne. Und dann gehst Du relativ rein. Und dann gibt's halt Team, wo Du weißt, okay, das Team ist komplett on top, ne. Und dann siehst Du halt, okay, Teams strugglen, bestimmt lösen, gehen in die falsche Richtung und da gehst Du halt tiefer rein. Das heißt Da kann sie nicht überall tief dran sein. Das heißt aber in sonem auch so grade Start up mäßigen Umfeld steht dann schon so vor, dass im Endeffekt so Du super eng mit dem CPO da zusammenarbeit ist. Im Endeffekt son bisschen ist so CPO hat eine Vorstellung, Du bist dafür zuständig, die Probleme, die in dieser zwischen dieser Vorstellung und der Umsetzung liegen, einfach aus dem Weg zu räumen so. Und dann damit hast Du auch son bisschen so, weil dann ist noch relativ klar, was dein nächstes Battle ist. Genau. Also versuchst halt irgendwie eine pragmatische Lösung zu finden, ne, für die Produktprobleme, die wir haben oder die die Themen, die wir angehen müssen als Nächstes. Und dann, was ist 'n pragmatische, schnelle Lösung und was ist eine langfristige, sinnvolle Lösung, ne, und da irgendwo dann die Brand zu finden. Und da hilft es dann halt, 'n guten CPO zu haben, der weiß, wie man Sachen priorisiert, worauf Fokus uns fokussieren müssen. Und dann kannst Du dich als CTO halt auf die auf die Implementierung fokussieren, ne. Und auf die Teams halt, Teamset-up und so weiter. Das heißt, bringt jetzt eigentlich dazu, Du brauchst 'n guten CPO, jetzt bist Du ja beides. Genau. Das heißt, Du entscheidest, welche welche welcher Battle als Nächstes bevorsteht. Erzähl uns doch mal was zu Blacklan und deinem aktuellen deiner aktuellen Firma, bei dem Du bist, was was genau ihr macht und was Du da tust und was deine Rolle vielleicht anders ist Ja. Dann zieht die O-Roll davor. Ja. Bei, also Blacklane, ähnliche Problemstellung wie bei Sender. Grob gesagt, Du hast auf der einen Seite demand, Leute, die einen Chauffeur Service suchen. Und auf der anderen Seite hast Du halt 'n recht frenmentierten Markt mit entweder Einzelleuten, die also einzelne Chauffeurre oder sogenannte LSPs nennt sich das, Local Service Provider. Das sind so kleinere Chauffeur Companys, ne. Die haben ja nur 3, 4, 5 Autos, manche auch größer, die haben 20, 50 Autos. Und Blacklain versucht die beiden halt in Anführungsstrichen zusammenzubringen. Das ist so aus 'ner technischen Sicht, ne. Was ist? Ja. Was sind denn die Definition 1 Chauffeurs an der Stelle? Chauffeur ist halt, dass Du vergleichbar mit 'nem über oder über Premium heißt das, glaub ich, in Deutschland, aber noch mal eine Ebene drüber, was für die Person angeht, die durch die Gegend färbt, dass die einfach die, der Service, den Du erfährst. Glaub ich ich will von a nach b fahren und also es ist immer noch 'n Fachfahrer von b und nicht, ich hol mir einen Fahrer für 8 Stunden und hab den zu meiner Verfügung. Also entweder willst Du von a nach b fahren oder Du willst für eine bestimmte Zeit fahren. Das sind so die 2 Okay, es gibt beide so Phoenix Modi, die wir haben. Mhm. Und das Ganze halt mit 'nem Premium Auto, ne. Es ist so E-Klasse oder S-Klasse oder Fünfersiebener BMW mit 'nem entsprechend geschulten Chauffeur. Also nicht, sondern trainiert auf Service. Also vergleichbar mit kannst 'n Dreistelligen Hotel buchen oder irgendwas kalt und wenn Du jetzt kalt und merkst Du halt, okay, die Leute sind anders geschult, die ganze Umgebung ist anders. Und den Anspruch haben wir halt, dass wir entsprechendes Servicelevel anbieten mit unseren Chauffeuren. Nicht nur das Auto, sondern halt der gesamte Service, den Du bekommst. Gibt's schon 'n bisschen länger Blacklane auch, oder? Ja, 14 Jahre jetzt, glaub ich. Okay. Ich meine mal in irgend soner wahrscheinlich noch Start up Phase, wo sie viele Gutscheine vergeben haben. Ja. Bin ich nämlich mal von von Bad Neuheim nach Frankfurt als irgendein Zug, ich wohn mit Blacklane, nach Hause gefahren damals, ja. Ja. Okay. Nee, ist schon 'n bisschen länger unterwegs. Ja. Genau, ja. Genau, also wir bieten Chauffeur Services an. Das ist unser Produkt, was wir anbieten global in 50 Märkten, was, glaub ich, son bisschen Alleinstellungsmerkmal ist von 'nem Blacklinen. Es gibt andere Chauffeur Services, eher traditionelle. Das ist eine, die sind aber meist lokal begrenzt und auch weniger irgendwie begrenzt. Und dann hast Du halt die Tech Player über und so weiter, die halt einen über oder anbieten. Aber es ist schon noch mal 'n anderes Level, was halt das Servicelevel angeht, ne. Also wir wir finden uns halt so dazwischen im Sinne von Servicequalität sehr vergleichbar mit den traditionellen und Tech oder Detail Experience eher Richtung Uber oder oder Lift. Zumindest ist unser Anspruch. Wie bist Du da hingekommen? Vielleicht auch gerne, was hat dich da gereizt? Weil ich glaub, das ist jetzt das, was mich, also bei dem anderen wirkte direkt eine technische Challenge. Ja, also das das war eher so persönlich. Ich hab mit Blacklane vor 7, 8 Jahren mal gesprochen, hab Jens und den Frank Steuer kennengelernt. Wir hatten damals 'n CTO gesucht, war nichts interessiert und bin halt ständig mit Frank irgendwie zum Mittagessen, ne, hab ich mich mit ihm getroffen, so einmal mehr. Mhm. Und Jens dann teilweise auch. Genau, wir waren immer in Kontakt und Jens hatte dann mich kontaktiert und gesagt, Du, ich brauch einen neuen CTO CPO. Der Vorher ist grade gegangen, lange diskutiert und lange gesprochen und ja, dann hab ich gesagt, okay, lass es machen. A, also ich glaub, primär Company Kultur. Jens als Person, Rest Rest vom Team und die gesamte Kultur in Blacklane ist schon recht recht außergewöhnlich, ne. Sehr peopleorientiert, sehr people fokussiert, sehr angenehm dort zu arbeiten. Heißt jetzt nicht, dass wir nicht ambitioniert sind, aber ist einfach vom vom Umgangston anders gewesen, sehr eigen, sehr, sehr speziell, sag ich mal, Positiv speziell. Genau, das hat mich gereizt. Und dann war halt das Team, 'n bestehendes Team, 80 Leute, auch wieder alte Plattformen, Standard, Scaler Problem, ne. Irgendwie monolithische Plattformen, in dem Fall Ruben Rails, stark hinterher, CEO, superanhappy mit mit dem Outcome vom Tech Team. Genau, und das war so die die Challenge. Einmal die Tech Challenge und dann die. Also das Team entsprechend weiter ausbauen oder auch umbauen, ne. Die Organisationsstruktur war recht eigen eigenwillig, nicht sehr optimiert auf Produktfokus, doch eher Stakeholder fokussiert im Sinne von, was der Stakeholder sagt, bauen wir. Nicht datengetrieben und so weiter. Also gab's schon viele, viele Baustellen auch auf der Kulturseite, organisatorischen Seite. Und genau, das haben wir jetzt umgebaut in den letzten 2 Jahren. Wir sind noch dabei. Find ich find ich irgendwie einen interessante Zusammensetzung, wo Du sagst so einerseits Kulturen wie irgendwie die Arbeitsweise nicht produktfokussiert und eher Stakeholderfokussiert. Das spricht für mich erst mal son bisschen, weil ich mein eigentlich war meine Frage so, was was zeichnet denn die die das das Umfeld bei Blacklinzer aus, dass als Firma das Du sagst, okay, irgendwie der Umgang miteinander, irgendwie die Kultur, die ist schon sehr besonders so. Da hätte ich jetzt erwarten, dass das vielleicht auch nicht als 1 der Probleme kommt, sodass Culture und Bieder 'n Produkt gebaut wird, dass das vielleicht einhergeht. Also die erste Frage, was was zeichnet sie aus? Was macht sie besonders? Was machen sie vielleicht auch anders, damit das so ist, damit das 'n Argument für dich war zu kommen? Und dann, wie passt das mit dem mit dann der Arbeitsweise zusammen? Ja, also ich glaub, die Kultur, Care ist, glaub ich, war 1 der, ist noch 1 der, die haben wir jetzt grade neu neu aufgesetzt. Mhm. Mhm. Care im Sinne von, wir wir kümmern uns die Leute. Wir wir sind, ja, nicht über die Arbeit hinaus sozusagen. Und das fühlt man irgendwie. Also wenn ich mich mit Jens treffe, dann haben wir auch sehr viel persönliche Diskussionen, aber auch wenn's einmal nicht gut geht auf beiden Seiten, dann helfen wir uns irgendwie aus und dann hören wir zu. Und dann sind wir auch besorgt, wenn's einem nicht gut geht. Und das hat man nicht in jeder Company. Also vorherige Jobs, die ich hatte, war das auf jeden Fall nicht so, dass das schon sehr speziell, dass Blacklin wirklich für seine Mitarbeiter sich sorgt, meine Vorstellung. Genau. Die Kultur im Techteam war jetzt halt eher so, dass sie wenig datengetrieben war und doch schon eher klassisch auf viele Ideen, die halt umgesetzt wurden, die jetzt nicht unbedingt richtig priorisiert wurden datenbasiert, ne, sondern eher. Aber das, glaub ich, eher so klassische Start-up Problem, wo dann halt Stakeholder im Grunde entscheiden, was gebaut wird und welche Features wichtig sind, ne, ohne dass böswillig oder so oder schlecht, sondern einfach nur eine geprägte Engineering Produktkultur, die halt nicht standesgemäß ist, was so, wie man heut Produkt entwickelt. Glaube ich, ja, 'n Talentproblem. Wie viel p von CP0 war so in der in den letzten 2 Jahren dabei oder war's erst mal auch aus Techsicht? Weißt, wo Du sagtest, da hab ich noch den größeren Hebel? Aufteilung, gute Frage. Wahrscheinlich mehr p als e, also mehr Produkte als Engineering, am Anfang zumindest, weil meine Sichtweise ist halt, kannst 'n Team mit 100 Ingenieure haben. Die das falsche Produkt bauen, bringt das relativ wenig. Oder wenn die in der falschen Themen arbeiten, ne. Das heißt, erst mal war die Frage, okay, was was sind eigentlich die Probleme? Was wollen wir auf Businessseite erreichen? Was müssen wir bauen? Wo müssen wir investieren, ne? In die Mobile App oder in die Web Webpräsenz? Ist es eher B2B oder eher B2C? Blacklin ist halt beides, B2C und B2B. Und da halt entscheiden, welche Features sind wichtig, dann halt Effizienz oder sich danach halt dann drauf zu fokussieren, okay, wie machen wir's denn? Können wir mit der Plattform weitermachen? Brauchen eine neue Plattform? Wie würden wir sie umbauen und so weiter? Aber das ist erst mal, glaub ich, zweitrangig, wenn Du nicht weißt, was das Problem ist, was Du lösen willst. Daher war anfänglich, glaub ich, eher erst mal Produkt. Und jetzt ist halt immer so hin und her, ist grade gemischt, ne. Wir bauen jetzt grad die Plattform bauen eine komplette neue Plattform auf. Aber auch wieder sehr produktgetrieben, ne, was eigentlich Probleme, die wir lösen wollen. Warum machen wir das? Ja. Ja. Vielleicht für mich die Frage, die mich jetzt am meisten interessiert bei deiner aktuellen Rolle noch, ist, CTO und CPO eher was Allgemeines so. Du hast vorher immer, gut, bei Sender warst Du auch schon CPO mit, aber hältst Du den Mix aus CTO und CPO für den für den richtigen Schritt als Company, das in 1 Rolle zu vereinen oder welche pro und contras siehst Du darin? Also ich glaub, es kommt 'n bisschen auf die Struktur da drunter an, auch. Also ich hab jetzt 2 Director products und 2 Director Engineering. Mhm. Mhm. Dadurch, dass wir ja sind, haben wir sozusagen die Chauffeur Seite und die Seite. Wir nennen das. Mhm. Und jeweils da Produkt Produkt dann hinten direktor drauf. Und die verantworten diese 2 Seiten der Plattform recht eigenständig. Was mir halt hilft, mich son bisschen mehr als auf die Businessseite zu fokussieren, zu verstehen, was müssen wir als Company für eine Richtung einschlagen? Da bin ich auch recht stark involviert und das dann halt umsetzen in die Produktstrategie. Und dann hilft es mir zumindest, und ich glaub, auch der Organisation, hoff ich zumindest, diese Abwägung zu treffen. Können wir das können wir das nicht, wenn wir das machen, ist das möglich technisch oder was müssen wir auf technischer Seite machen? Das vereinfacht sehr viel. Der Nachteil ist halt, Kapazität zu haben, ne, also auch für beides. Das ist son bisschen die Challenge, glaub ich. Also das kann halt schon sehr stressig sein teilweise. Aber Du hast halt weniger Abstimmungsbedarf, ne, zwischen dem CPO und CTO. Jetzt können wir dann argumentieren, dass halt so, meistens. Mhm. Aber ich glaub, das ist dann halt vielleicht auch 'n bisschen Erfahrungssache. Also ich hab mit vielen guten Produktleuten zusammengearbeitet. Ich war mal sehr produktorientiert auch in meinen Rollen. Hab auch immer stark auf Produktseite mitgearbeitet. Das hilft mir halt, jetzt beide Seiten abzubilden und mit 'nem Team dadrunter, was es dann halt umsetzen kann und auch mitgestalten kann. Also mir hilft mir, ich glaube, in der Blacklane hilft das. Wir sind dadurch, glaub ich, etwas effizienter in der Umsetzung. Und glaubst Du, dass sone Rolle CTO, CPO nur von ihm ausgelebt werden kann, der vorher schon mal CTO war und dann die CPO Rolle dazu auch noch mit annimmt? Oder gibt es auch, siehst Du auch Beispiele dafür, dass CPOs die CTO Rolle mit annehmen so? Also ich bin halt, ich glaub, meine Zeit bei Nokia und bei Skype hat das son bisschen geprägt. Bei Skype war es so, Skype ist halt Microsoft gewesen und die Kultur bei Microsoft und bei Skype war halt alle sehr, sehr technisch bis zum CEO, ne. Ich meine, Bill Gates selber war halt megatechnisch unterwegs, ne. Und das, der Anspruch war halt da, immer zu sagen, okay, da gab's den Split zwischen Produkt und Engineering, aber die die konnten auch nicht zu jeder Zeit, konnte man austauschen. Die konnten beides. Mhm. Weil die Produktleute sehr technisch waren und die waren sehr produktfokussiert. Und das hab ich da gelernt und auch weitergelebt. Und das war bei Klarna genauso, ne. Bei Klarna musste man sehr technisch sein als Produktmensch und aber auch als Engineer musste man sehr produktfokussiert sein, weil der Gründer und der CPO und alle waren sehr produktfokussiert, ne. Wenn man so in diesem Umfeld aufwächst, dann hat man immer diesen Produktfokus, auch als Ingenieur oder als CTO. Und so betrat ich auch meine Organisation aktuell und das ist auch mein Anspruch an die Organisation. Und wenn Du 'n Engineering Manager bist, kannst Du nicht kannst Du nicht sagen, ist mir egal, was wir bauen. Ich kümmer mich nur den Engineering Teil und musst 'n Produktfokus mitbringen. Und ViceVERSER, Produktleute müssen son bisschen teiltechnisch sein und verstehen, wie das umgesetzt wird, ne. Und wenn Du das mitbringst, dann kann man das, glaub ich, kombinieren ganz gut. Das heißt aber, Du musst das mal gesehen haben, Du musst das mal erlebt haben. Du musst in der Organisation gearbeitet haben, wo das so ist, wo das auch so funktioniert. Kann man ja nur halt eher so vorstellen, dass man wie diesen Produktteil, wenn man den technischen Background hat, eher und der Job irgendwie mitlernen kann, wenn man dafür interessiert ist und so und wenn man aus der Produktsicht kommt, den technischen Teil eher nicht so einfach mitlernt so durchs Zugucken. Ja, aber ich glaube, Produkt ist auch nicht simpel. Also man Definitiv nicht. Das sieht sieht so aus, sagt dem Motto, ich hab auch eine Meinung, wie das Produkt funktionieren sollte. Aber wirklich ist dann Produktmanagement im Sinne von und und so weiter wirklich verstehen und analysieren, wie man 'n Produkt voranbringt und optimiert und weiteroptimiert, das ist schon immer eine andere Liga. Also ich kann kann man, glaub ich, nicht einfach unsere Job unbedingt leer. Muss man, glaub ich, eine Weile gemacht haben in in 'ner Art und Weise, ja. Oder eine eine Organisation, die sehr gut ist und das da mitnehmen, ne, und beobachten. Aber wenn ich jetzt reiner Ingenieur CTO bin, der wenig produkt fokussiert war und dann in eine Protokolle zu gehen, ist halt, glaub ich, schwierig, das, glaub ich. Nee, klar, ich Also da muss das Interesse auch dafür da sein und vorher mich schon mit jetzt kritisiert haben. Ich mein, ich hab selbst aus dem Weg gemacht von vorher Full Stack Engineering zu jetzt hauptsächlich Product Management so und das ist würd auch sagen, es ist für mich der schwierigere Job. Facettenreichere, aber der schwierigere. Aber so, genau, da man kann son bisschen, wenn man die, wenn man das, wenn man die Lust darauf hat, so während man den Engineering Manager vielleicht macht, so im Produkt dann mitarbeiten, sich die Skills irgendwie vielleicht mit drauf schaffen, irgendwie Interesse haben und irgendwie sich's mit anschauen, als dann, wenn man lange Produkte macht, dann zu sagen zu sagen, ach, ich fang jetzt noch mal an zu entwickeln und probier noch mal wirklich von der Pike auf zu lernen, hab ich's viel wäre der schwierige. Aber das war, glaub ich, der Case, den ich son bisschen vielleicht aufmachen wollte. Ja. Aber wahrscheinlich könntest Du als Produktmanager, wenn Du sehr technisch unterwegs bist, dass Du mal gesehen hast, wahrscheinlich sone Engineering Managerrolle einnehmen. Ja. Son bisschen 'nem gewissen Grade, wahrscheinlich weniger, mehr so People Management teil und Delivery teil. Das könnte wahrscheinlich von Sinn. Ja, mal Coding natürlich nicht, ne. Aber ist meintest das trotzdem, was was Du meintest so kulturell halt interessant, dass Du auch grade meintest bei Skype oder halt auch Microsoft im Allgemeinen, da könnten der Produktfokussierte und der Engineering Manager irgendwie theoretisch tauschen. Ich war auch vorher in anderen Enterprises, während man lange Zeit auf meiner großen Bank gearbeitet, da würde das absolut gar nicht funktionieren. Während auf Product Seite ist, ist wirklich so sehr weit entfernt von dem Technischen so. Und da da könnte ich's mir in soner Konzession gar nicht vorstellen. Klar, bei uns jetzt bei Lotum ist die Kombination auch eine andere. Da haben wir ganz viele von diesen Wechseln und da, ja, auf jeden Fall. So, bei uns können eigentlich fast jeder macht auch genauso gut Engineering machen. Ja. Und zum Beispiel Amazon, ne, die haben ja ein ähnliches Modell, die haben ja diese GM Modelle. Du bist halt 'n GM für irgend eine Unit, weiß ich, wenn jetzt bei, ich hab mal den GM getroffen von Amazon s 3. Das ist halt 'n Hardcore Leader und die verantwortet halt s 3 als als als Unit, als Business, ne. Hat aber 'n sehr starkes Produktverständnis, Businessverständnis und 'n technisches Verständnis. Da Amazon fährt nicht jedes Modell, ne, zumindest auf der Ebene. Darunter splittest Du das dann, glaub ich, auf, aber ist sehr ähnlich, ne. Aber ist halt eine spezielle Art von Leuten, glaub ich. Und Du musst halt Interesse daran haben und 'n Bock drauf haben, ne. Ne. Sehr cool. Ich hab jetzt Manager, die ist bei uns als EM eingestiegen und macht jetzt auch grade Produkt mit. Mhm. Und das funktioniert ganz gut. Hat da Bock drauf und ist extrem effizient unterwegs. Was das noch? Weniger Abstimmungsbedarf mit sich selber, ja. Ja. Sehr cool. Eine Frage, die wir gerne am Ende noch einmal stellen in unseren CTO Specials ist, wenn Du jetzt noch mal zurückreisen könntest und deinem jungen Ich irgendwas ins Ohr flüstern kannst, fällt dir da irgendwie spontan was ein, wo Du sagen würdest so, ach, wenn ich diese Erkenntnis damals schon gehabt hätte, dann hätt ich irgendwas grundlegend anders gemacht? Also Spaß bei sehr, aber Microsoft Aktien investieren? Ja? Ja, wenn ich den Preis mit anschauen und dann würd ich mir das flüstern. Hätt ich dir was anders gemacht? Gute Frage. Also im im im Kleinen wahrscheinlich schon, aber so generell bin ich eigentlich ziemlich zufrieden mit dem, was ich erleben durfte mit meiner Karriere. Ich kann mich nicht beschweren. Mhm. Ich hatte extrem spannende Challenges und hatte immer Glück. Also muss ich wirklich sagen, ich hatte, natürlich gab's Challenges, ne, und und auch nicht alles rosig, aber ich hatte irgendwie immer Glück, dass ich Spaß hatte in meinem Job. Ich glaub, was ich mir selber mitgeben würde, wenn man keinen Spaß mehr hat, dann ist es auch gut und dann kann man auch weiterziehen und da ist nichts Schlimmes Schlimmes dabei. Ich glaub, das ist wichtig, dass man Spaß hat und Passion hat für seinen Job, ne. Ansonsten macht das keinen Sinn. Das gesagt, ja, man muss aber auch manchmal durchhalten, ne und auch irgendwie haben und durch durch Challenges durchgehen. Also das ist, glaub ich, auch wichtig. Das seh ich halt heute so in der grade son Berliner Markt, da wird halt viel, wenn mal irgendwie was nicht funktioniert, dann gehen ziehen Leute gleich weiter direkt. Ich glaub, man muss ja mal haben, ne. Das ist nicht immer, das Gras ist nicht immer grün auf der anderen Seite. Ja. Genau. Aber generell bin ich ziemlich happy mit meinem Werdegang. Hatte echt viel Glück in meine Kehle und immer noch Spaß. Sehr cool. Na, eine Frage, die mich noch zum Schluss interessiert. Du hast am Anfang gemeint, dein sechsjähriger älterer Bruder, der war eigentlich am Anfang der Nerd. Wenn man jetzt deinen Werteigungswissen anschaut, dann bist Du's definitiv auch. Ist das denn jetzt immer noch so? Seid ihr jetzt 2 Nerds oder hat sich dein Bruder in die andere Richtung entwickelt? Nee, ich glaub, er ist immer mehr Nerd als ich bin. Ich bin, ich hab mich, glaub ich, mehr Richtung halt Videoschirm und so was entwickelt hat, immer noch sehr technisch unterwegs, aber ich glaub halt nicht so der, ja, jetzt bin ich am Wochenende nicht mehr hin und code irgendwas. Das hab ich zum letzten Mal bei Klarna gemacht irgendwie so als Hobbyprojekt oder jetzt wieder mit Cloud Code und so weiter. Ja. Kenn ich das wieder, zumindest krieg so, kann ich so tun, als ob. Nee, aber ich glaub, er ist immer mehr Nerd, als als ich das bin. Sehr schön. Ja, sehr handel von dir vieles auch auf das Glück zu beziehen. Ich glaube, mit Sicherheit hast Du auch viele Dinge sehr richtig gemacht, dass Du die Möglichkeit hattest, in in diesen verschiedenen Rollen zu arbeiten und und da mitzuwirken und mit Sicherheit einiges bewirkt hast bei den all den Firmen. Von daher vielen vielen Dank, Dirk, dass Du uns ein bisschen teilhaben hast an all dem, was Du erlebt hast. Ich fand es mega spannend, das mitzubekommen. Danke. Und wünsche dir auf jeden Fall auch ganz viel Glück und Erfolg dann in den nächsten Stationen, die noch auf mich zukommen werden. Vielen Dank. Danke dir auch. Macht's gut. Tschau. 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0: Hallo und herzlich willkommen zu einem neuen CTO Special der Programmierbar. Mein ist Dennis Becker und ich sitze hier heute gemeinsam mit mit\n\nSpeaker 1: dem Fabi Fink. Hello.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und unser heutiger Gast hat einige Stationen in seinem Lebenslauf, die man nicht erläutern muss, weil ich glaube, viele sie einfach kennen, sei es bei Skype von Microsoft hörbar, beim Zahlungsanbieter Klarna oder auch beim Streamingdienst Join von ProSieben, Sat. 1 und ist heute CTO und CPO von Blacklane. Herzlich willkommen Dirk Daumann. Dirk, sehr schön, dass Du dir die Zeit genommen hast.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, vielen Dank für die Einladung und die Chance zu sprechen mit euch.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, wir starten super gerne in dem CTO Podcast. Man könnte fast schon sagen nach Schema F, weil wir es mittlerweile immer so ein bisschen machen. Aber wir würden gerne einmal ganz weit zurückreisen und so ein bisschen deinen ersten Kontakt zu Technologie erfragen. Kannst Du dich daran erinnern, wann so deine ersten Kontaktpunkte zu Technik waren und wer das vielleicht begünstigt hat?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, kann ich versuchen. Ich bin schon 'n bisschen älter, von daher. Ah ja, ja. Technologie meinst Du wahrscheinlich Computertechnologie, oder? Genau, ja.\n\nSpeaker 0: Es kann ja auch 'n anderer Einstieg gewesen sein, je nachdem, was sich 'n bisschen in die Karriere gebracht hat.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja. Also ich glaube, so mein mein Hintergrund war immer von relativ jungen Jahren Technik, aber jetzt nicht unbedingt Software, weil gab's da teilweise noch nicht, als ich noch kleiner war. Aber ich war mal sehr, sehr interessiert daran zu verstehen, wie Dinge funktionieren. Es hat angefangen als Kind, dass ich mein Spielzeug auseinander gebaut hab, bis es nicht mehr benutzbar war, Hab dann an Motorrädern rumgeschraubt und so weiter. Und ich hab auch 'n Bruder, der ist älter, 6 Jahre.\n\nUnd der war eigentlich relativ so ab Teenageralter, auch an Computer interessiert, ne. Also einfach Problem mehr sparen und so weiter. Da gab's ja, wie gesagt, noch keine Desktopcomputer zu dem Zeitpunkt oder konnten wir uns 'n bisschen nicht leisten, ne. Gab's noch 4 86 und so was und Commodorus. Hatten wir dann auch.\n\nUnd er war aber immerhin der so der der Nerd vor allem von uns beiden. Und ich war immer 'n bisschen, hab zugeschaut, da bin ich mir nicht aktiv mitgemacht. Und eigentlich so richtig in meinen eigenen Computer hab ich mir gekauft extrem im Studium erst mit, als ich, genau, nach Schulabschluss Studium angefangen. Da hab ich dann immer mal im Sommerurlaub gejobbt und hab mir dann meinen ersten Laptop gekauft. Ich glaube, auch in 4 Sechsundachtziger.\n\nMhm. Wahnsinnig teuer. Und das war so mein erster Kontaktpunkt eigentlich mit Computer und Software direkt selber. Vorher war's eigentlich eher mein Bruder, 'n bisschen rumgespielt, aber ja, eigentlich sonst nicht aktiv probiert oder\n\nSpeaker 0: so. Okay.\n\nSpeaker 2: Also eigentlich relativ spät, vielleicht wahrscheinlich heute, nur die meisten schon als Teenager oder so einsteigen, ja. Genau. Und das war dann auch mehr aus so aus Eigennutz, ne. Computer genutzt fürs Studium, Schreiben und so weiter, 'n bisschen programmiert. Und dann aber halt auch im Studium natürlich dann in in die Programmierung eingestiegen.\n\nMhm. Genau.\n\nSpeaker 1: Und studiert hast Du dann was?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, ist ja auch eine interessante Story. Ich hab erst Physik studiert für ein Jahr. Mhm. Und also ich muss dazu sagen, ich hab vom Schulsystem, ich hab ein Fachabitur gemacht, hab, wie nannte sich das? Kommunikationselektroniker gelernt.\n\nAlso ich hab da auch programmiert, Assembler und solche Geschichten. Hat so Chips programmiert, 80 irgendwas Chips. Schon sehr, sehr lange her. Hab da nach dem Fachabitur wollt ich studieren, aber im deutschen System kannst Du halt nicht mit Fach mit Fachabitur an eine Universität gehen, sondern ich musste an eine, es gab es damals noch, gibt es heute nicht mehr eine Gesamthochschule. Da sind also Universitäten, die auch Leute akzeptieren mit Fachabitur.\n\nUnd das war in dem Fall die Universität Paderborn. Und da konnt ich dann über sogenannte Brückenkurse in das normale Universitätsstudium einsteigen, sonst hätt ich nur auf die Fachhochschule gehen können. Das war also ganz interessant. Und dann hab ich im Fachabitur, war ich so schlecht in Mathe, dass mein Mathelehrer mir gesagt hat, Herr Dormon, Sie werden es nie schaffen im Studium, weil Sie in Mathe so schlecht sind. Und das haben wir mich da angesprochen, zu sagen, okay, ich studier jetzt Physik, weil schlimmer kann's nicht werden, so nach dem Motto.\n\nUnd hab dann ein Jahr Physik studiert und hab mich dann durch Mathe durchgekämpft. Hab's auch geschafft. Und das war dann 'n bisschen so für das eigene Ego selbstbeschündige. Und hab dann aber festgestellt, eigentlich hab ich das erreicht, was ich erreichen wollte. Ich hab den Mathekurs bestanden.\n\nJetzt kann ich eigentlich 'n 'n 'n Weg gehen, der mir wahrscheinlich mehr liegt. Und das war dann Wirtschaftsingenieur, also Elektrotechnik und BWL. Ja, genau. Und hat das dann halt zu Ende geführt, ja. Also 'n bisschen lange Story, aber zeigt, glaub ich, son bisschen so mein mein Charakter, dass ich dann sehr angesprochen bin.\n\nUnd wollte mir sagen, dass ich dass ich nicht erfolgreich sein werde.\n\nSpeaker 1: Bin ich mal gespannt, ob das sich gleich im weiteren Werdegang noch wiederholt in der Story, aber ja\n\nSpeaker 2: Kann sein, ja.\n\nSpeaker 1: Sehr, sehr interessant auf jeden Fall. Wie wenn Du jetzt sagst, okay, dann danach das Studium ja eigentlich auch noch trotzdem jetzt nicht die Informatik- und Softwareentwicklung so, wie ist denn dein Weg weitergegangen? So wie wann wann war der beruflich oder professionell erste Kontakt mit Softwareentwicklung?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja. Also im Studium haben wir, ich hab jetzt nicht Informatik direkt studiert, aber Wirtschaftsingenieur und Elektrotechnik. Und da ist ja dann auch schon 'n starken Bezug zu Softwareentwicklung in den Elektrotechnik. Und das hat dann auch schon 'n starken Bezug zu Softwareentwicklung in den in den Studiengängen. Und ich hab mich spezialisiert auf den Bereich Operations Control, also Optimierungsprobleme und solche Geschichten.\n\nUnd da dann auch im Studium programmiert in dem Bereich und pünktlich 'n Elektrotechnik Studium war. Ich hab aber relativ wenig Elektrotechnik gemacht. Und dann war halt nach dem Studium die Frage, hey, was mach ich jetzt? Das war 2009 2000 grade so Internetboom, also war da noch, ist grade Kurz\n\nSpeaker 1: vor der Blase?\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau, die Blase ist genau dann geplatzt, als ich angefangen hab, mein Beruf. Er war halt vorher mich beworben, auch schon 'n halbes Jahr vor Studiumende 'n Vertrag in der Tasche gehabt. Mhm. Und da war die Frau aus Maich, wollte da lieber was Richtung Softwareentwicklung machen, hat da halt mit Rangebots und bin halt in der Beratung gelandet bei Accenture, genau gesagt, Accenture Technology Consulting damals, die halt primär Großprojekte durchgeführt haben, ne. Also wie 100 plus Leute Projekte bei speziell Corpels und so weiter.\n\nUnd das war dann halt mein Einstieg, professioneller Einstieg in die Softwareentwicklung. Genau. Das erste Projekt war dann bei der Deutschen Bahn das Mainframensystem, was damals noch verwendet wurde, Tickets zu buchen. Das haben wir abgelöst mit 'ner Java- und webbasierten Lösung. Das war aber genau 2000, als die Blase geplatzt ist.\n\nAlso die Blase ist 'n halbes Jahr voll ungefähr geplatzt. Ich hatte aber Glück, dass ich halt schon 'n Vertrag hatte und dann auch den Vertrag behalten hab. Und dann auch da direkt 'n Projekt gefunden hab bei der Deutschen Bahn. Und dadurch hatt ich, glaub ich, relativ viel Glück im im Start meiner Kehre. Ja.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und das heißt, Du hast eher aus Interesse studiert oder hattest Du irgendwas im Kopf, was Du danach gerne machen würdest?\n\nSpeaker 2: So richtig Plan hätt ich nicht, was ich beruflich machen wollt am Anfang vom Studium. Aber ich hab halt immer Interesse für Technik gehabt, Ingenieurwesen oder halt Softwareentwicklung. Mhm. Und im Studium hat sich das dann so entwickelt. Also ich hab im Studium im Grunde genommen meinen meinen Weg gefunden.\n\nIch hab auch im Studium nebenbei gearbeitet, Verschiedene Jobs bei verschiedenen Firmen, aber auch immer Richtung Consulting oder Softwareentwicklung. Und dadurch hat sich das dann ergeben, dass ich dann nachm Studium einigermaßen wusste, was ich machen wollte.\n\nSpeaker 1: Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja.\n\nSpeaker 0: Wie siehst Du das, wenn Du dann als Consultant eingestiegen bist und ja eigentlich dann so ab Minute 1 irgendwo beratend bist oder unterstützend irgendwo in Teams? Wie hat da so die, also zum Ersten, wie hat sich's angefühlt, wo dein Wissensstand damals war? Und wie funktioniert in dem Kontext so dann die Weiterbildung? Also wie wo hast Du da gelernt in der Zeit?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, also ein klassisches Beratungsgeschäft, ne. Du kommst von der Uni und bist dann, damals hieß das, glaub ich, Analyst bei Extension Show. Das das unterste Level und bist halt der Mega Junior, der irgendwo in der Ecke sitzt und dann halt relativ genau 'n Scope bekommt, was das Thema angeht, was was umgesetzt werden muss. Ich hatte mal relativ viel Glück in meinen Excenture Projekten oder grade am Anfang, dass ich halt gute Manager hatte, die mich da gecoacht haben und auch mir Aufgaben gegeben haben, die halt jetzt entsprechend meinem Skill Set sind. Und hab mich da halt im Job weiterentwickelt, ne.\n\nKlassisch Beratung, größere Aufgaben bekommen, größere Challenges und so weiter. Und da aber auch relativ schnell in die in die Personalverantwortung, zumindest auf Projektebene. Also ich hab dann alle Teams relativ schnell geleitet und ja, haben mich da halt weiterentwickelt in der Richtung Richtung Leadership Position. Technische beide Entwicklung war ganz klar aufm Projekt programmiert, ne, und dann halt da einfach den Skript ausgebaut, Komplexität ausgebaut. Genau.\n\nUnd dann einfach vom Kollegen gelernt, also Mitarbeitern, die angecoacht haben und so weiter.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, cool. Und danach, wenn man mal auf deinen Werdegang schaut, danach kamen ja eigentlich dann ausschließlich Stationen bei Firmen, die im Endeffekt ein digitales Produkt irgendwie vertreiben oder dass das ihr Produkt ist sozusagen, was Und auch alles Namen, die man ja irgendwie kennt, so der nächste Step war ja dann hier, also die Ja. Der Maps Anbieter so. Kannst Du uns 'n bisschen dazu erzählen, wie wie diese Entwicklung dahin zu hier kam? War das irgendwie eine bewusste Entscheidung weg von Beratung hin zu hier und erzähl uns mal gerne, was Du da gemacht hast.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, also ich war 7 7 oder fast 8 Jahre dann bei Xent Show, also 7 Mal Bär ungefähr. Was superspannend vor, ne. Also was dir die persönliche Entwicklung angeht, glaub ich, wenn ich jetzt zurückschaue, meine Kehre so, die steilste Entwicklung. Und weshalb liegt auch daran, dass ich da halt vom Junior eingestiegen bin und dann halt Richtung Manager mich entwickelt hab. Vorteil halt, dass man halt verschiedene Projekte sieht, ne, und und verschiedene Kunden sieht, neue Challenges hat und so weiter.\n\nUnd das alles relativ groß, ne. Sie haben halt Deutsche Bahn gemacht, DHL, Otto und solche Geschichten, ne. Sieht man halt schon so Large Skill Softwareentwicklung. Wie funktioniert das, ne? Also mit 150 Leuten irgendwie 'n ERP System ablösen oder solche Geschichten über Custom Entwicklungen.\n\nWeil schon krass, was man da lernt, ne. Nicht nur reine Softwareentwicklung, aber auch das ganze Projektmanagement, Projektmanagement drum herum. Und dass ich halt 7, 8 Tage gemacht hab, bin dann irgendwann leichte, ja, diese leichte persönliche Krise, weil ich halt eigentlich immer von Montag bis Freitag unterwegs war. Also ich hatte am Anfang hab ich in Hamburg gewohnt, hatte das Projekt bei der Bahn in Frankfurt 2 Jahre. Bin dann nach Frankfurt gezogen, hab ich gesagt, ich will nicht mehr reisen.\n\nDann war das Projekt auch vorbei, nämlich, da hab ich in Frankfurt gewohnt, bin nach Prag gereist, die Woche. Und das ging halt 7, 8 Jahre so. Und bei Accenture hast Du halt entweder Hotel- oder Projektwohnung. Und irgendwann hab ich halt in den Projektwohnungen gesessen und hab gedacht so, ey, kannst Du nicht jetzt das so weitermachen? Ist ja kein Leben, ne.\n\nAlso sitzt in der Wohnung und da hängen Bilder von anderen Leuten an der Wand. Also ich glaub deine eigenen Bilder. Ich hab auch gar keine Wohnung mehr gehabt irgendwann. Ich ich hab meinen meine Mietwohnung aufgegeben damals, weil ich Projektwohnungen hatte und hatte nur noch so 5 Kisten. Das war so mein Einkommen, der Rest war Projektwohnung.\n\nUnd da hab ich dann irgendwann gesagt, ey, das das das will ich so nicht mehr machen in dieser Reiserei und ständig Hotel oder Projektwohnung. Und das war eigentlich der Grund, warum ich gesagt hab, ich will weg. Und der andere Grund war halt, bei Consulting machst Du halt immer projektbasierte Arbeit. Das heißt, Du bringst das zum gewissen Grade, aber wenn wenn's eventuell spannend wird oder wenn, Du bringst es nie so richtig zu Ende, ne. Das heißt, Du steigst immer aus, wenn's bevor es eigentlich beendet wurde, weil dann meistens der Kunde dann übernimmt und so weiter.\n\nUnd irgendwann wollt ich das auch mal irgendwie weniger projektbasiert, sondern mehr produktbasiert arbeiten, ne, wirklich 'n Produkt Ownership übernehmen. Und bin dann halt, wie gesagt, weg von 'nem Consulting und Richtung, da hat sich dann einen einen Job ergeben bei hier, der recht spannend war als Architekt. Am ersten Tag, wo ich gestartet bin, gab's den Job aber nicht mehr. Da wurd ich dann eine neue Rolle angeboten, weil die sich umorganisiert haben innerhalb der 3 Monate zwischen Kündigung und und Neuanfang.\n\nSpeaker 1: Kannst Du vielleicht kurz dazu 'n bisschen Kontext geben, wo was hier zu dem Zeitpunkt war? Also ich hab, glaub ich, das erste Mal Kontakt mit dem Maps Produkt hatte ich jetzt 2 13, das war die Zeit dazu, dann schon wieder grade kurz davor was wegzugehen. Also wie wie kann man sich vorstellen, was was war hier zu dem Zeitpunkt, wo Du da angefangen hast? Ja.\n\nSpeaker 2: Also hier war noch wirklich, kann man sagen, was Company und Kultur angeht, nur noch Denkweise mehr Nokia Gate Five. Gate Five, weil die Company damals gekauft wurde von Nokia. Mhm. Also 'n kleines Team in Berlin, ich glaub, es haben sie 200 Leute oder so was, die verschiedene Produkte gebohrt haben, ne. Sagen wir die webbasierte Version, dann noch die App mit relativ starker Verbindung zu Nuklear.\n\nAlso eigentlich war Nuklear denen ihre Plattform, Hauptplattform. Mhm. Und als ich da war, also sehr produktfokussierte Company, auch über das Leadership. Michael Halbherr damals noch und Christoph Helmes. Sehr, sehr produktfokussisierte visionäre Menschen.\n\nSuperviel gelernt. So wurde auch relativ schnell klar, dass diese Abhängigkeit zu Symbian, als US und als einzige Plattform wahrscheinlich nicht sehr zukunftsträchtig ist, ne. Sie vielleicht, okay, was können wir machen? Wir haben eigentlich 'n Riesenasset an der Hand. Witzigweise hat dann Nokia Geld five gekauft, was irgendwie 'n 7 Billionen Deal war.\n\nMhm. Also David, Kohliat und so.\n\nSpeaker 1: Und wir\n\nSpeaker 2: haben halt als Asset gehabt. Und haben überlegt so, okay, ist ja eigentlich 'n 'n super Asset und das jetzt nur auf 'nem auf 'ner Plattform zu betreiben, die halt wahrscheinlich eher die kleinen Userzahlen hat, macht wenig Sinn. Was können wir mit dem Produkt abmachen? Und das war ja so grade der Umbruch, ne, dass man gesagt hat, hey, wollen wir nicht eine Plattform anbieten mit APIs, die man extra nutzen kann, ja, für Geocording, Reverse Geocording, Map Branding und so weiter. Und das war grade, das war nicht meine Rolle als Architekt diese APIs mit zu definieren.\n\nUnd dann, genau, an dem Zeitpunkt war's aber so, dass es 'n ersten Deal gab mit Yahoo damals, die ausgestiegen sind aus diesem ganzen Map Business, weil das relativ investmentheavy ist. Und gesagt haben, okay, wir machen Deal genug, ja. Die bauen uns die Plattform und wir machen halt sozusagen User Interface on top. Und das war dann auch mein erste meine erste Rolle, diese Plattform mit aufzubauen als Produkt. Mhm.\n\nNe, also wir hatten dann verschiedene Assets in Nuklear. Es gab 'n Team, die haben Geocoling gemacht, dann gab's 'n Morting Team. Bisher alles für Simpian. Und jetzt ging's darum, da eine Set und APIs draufzusetzen, als Plattform zu verpacken und halt zu skalieren für so was wie 'n Yahoo, die halt doch relativ hohe Userzahlen hatten. Genau, das war eine Rolle.\n\nUnd das war also wirklich 'n Mischmasch aus Produktmanagement, Engineering Management, Architektur, Programmmanagement, also recht wild, was zu den Score angeht, der wolle. Aber superspannend, weil man halt mit mit diesen Kunden sozusagen mal, ja, mit natürlich 'n Yahoo und und dann nachher anderen Kunden auch Und da diese Plattform wirklich ausm Boden gehoben hatten.\n\nSpeaker 1: Und find ich ganz interessant, diese, das heißt aber, Kunden waren dann wirklich in erster Linie so was wie Yahoo Maps oder jemand, der wirklich ein Kartenprodukt gebaut hat und ihr wart das Background für dieses Kartenprodukt so.\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau.\n\nSpeaker 1: Gibt's da also so, gibt's da so viele, die auch sich auf son anderes Back bauen verlassen für, also was was für Kunden sind sind das noch, die Maps bauen und dann irgendwie sone API von hier benutzen?\n\nSpeaker 2: Bing Maps zum Beispiel, das war der nächste Kunde. Die hatten das bisher selber gemacht, hatten auch relativ viel investiert, hatten auch Assets aufgebaut, wie zum Beispiel und so weiter. Haben aber auch immer entschieden, okay, das ist nicht unser Core Business. Das macht keinen Sinn, so viel Geld zu investieren in eine Map Plattform. Mhm.\n\nLass uns mit mit machen oder. Eigentlich hast Du ja nur 2 Accountanbieter. Und TomTom, was die Daten angeht. Und dann hast Du halt wenige, die eine Mapplattform bauen, ne. Da ist Google Maps und 'n hier Maps, ne.\n\nIn dem scale hast Du auch so und so weiter.\n\nSpeaker 1: Aber ist das wollen wir auch erkannt. Ist Google Maps, das heißt, das die Karten, die auf denen Google Maps basiert, die das kümmert sich auch Google nicht selbst rum. Ist das\n\nSpeaker 2: Mischmasch. Mhm. Also Google, wenn Du unten schaust, ich weiß nicht, ob das jetzt noch so ist, damals war das so. Die zeigen wir noch an. TomTom.\n\nSpeaker 1: Mhm. Diese Doku, glaub ich.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, genau. Das steht in den in den. Aber natürlich mittlerweile machen die auch viel selber, ne. Also haben viel der Daten und so weiter. Das heißt, die haben dann Overlays, ne, wo sie dann die reine Daten teilweise mit reinbringen.\n\nAber damals war das noch Copyright der Kartendaten, weil das Erstellen der Kartendaten ist halt megeintensiv. Mittlerweile hat Google ja auch Streetmaps und so weiter. Das heißt, die haben da auch aufgebaut und machen das größtenteils jetzt selber wahrscheinlich. Nicht nur die die Streetmaps, sondern auch die wirkliche Kartografie dahinter. Mhm.\n\nAber damals haben die das von Nerfack eingekauft und von TomTom. Nerfack ist halt stark in den USA und TomTom ist halt stark in Europa und die haben das halt kombiniert, ne.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja. Aber das find ich ganz interessant, weil ich hab mir schon irgendwie 'n paar Mal gefragt, mich wundert, dass dann so viele auch so, also wie Apple Karten und so was. Mir war gar nicht bewusst, dass dieses die Karten dann doch von 'nem anderen Anbieter holen\n\nSpeaker 2: mich Ja.\n\nSpeaker 1: Immer so dachte, da muss doch so viel Aufwand dahinterstecken, dieses Kartenmaterial, dass es so viele Leute tun. Aber jetzt hab ich die Antwort darauf, so viele Leute tun's gar nicht.\n\nSpeaker 2: Es gibt mir 2.\n\nSpeaker 1: Es haben anfänglich aber wohl mal mehr probiert, wenn ich richtig verstanden wollte. So Yahoo Bing und so was, die hatten das mal auch selbst gemacht.\n\nSpeaker 2: Also die haben sich die Kartendaten auch selber auch eingekauft von 'n. Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 1: Aber\n\nSpeaker 2: die haben halt auch on top dann noch die Service gebaut. Ja. Also Du hast einmal die Kartendaten, das sind die Rohrdaten. Und dann hast Du halt zum Beispiel 'n Routingservice, den Yahoo da mal selber gebaut hat, aber einen globalen Routingservice zu bauen, der dir wirklich entweder normales Routing anbietet oder halt auch direction, also für eine Navigation, ist halt schon noch mal eine Liga, ne. Weil Du halt da, da ist halt nicht ein Produkt, was global funktioniert, sondern da ist auch viel lokales Wissen, sondern.\n\nUnd das ist halt schon eine recht große Investition. Also ist echt simpel, aber grade Routing und Navigation ist halt schon sehr, sehr investment happy. Und für sone Yahoo ist oder oder eine macht das halt irgendwann keinen Sinn mehr, so was so was selber zu bauen. Ist dann dann gelöst das Problem, ne. Irgendwann sind die Rating Service halt von den Core Anbietern jetzt eine eine Nokia also halt auch so gut, dass man die einfach einkaufen kann, ne.\n\nOder über eine Partnerschaft.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, gut. Und da, wenn ich's noch mal schlussendlich richtig verstehe, also 'n NAFTEC, das also Nokia hat 'n Nokia gekauft. Das heißt, es gehört zu Nokia Produkt. Und und weil weil ich würd damals, als ich hier das erste Mal benutzt hab, ich hab's glaub ich benutzt, weil das die Offline Funktionalität für Karten glaub ich gut hat. Das heißt im asiatischen Raum hab ich's genutzt, irgendwie mit meinem Roller irgendwo rumzufahren.\n\nUnd da dachte ich immer so gut, hier ist 'n kleiner Player im Maps Business, aber eigentlich sind das dann sogar eher die Großen. Hab ich jetzt hab ich noch wieder was gelernt?\n\nSpeaker 2: Also die die Storyline ist, es gab eine No Care Gate Five.\n\nSpeaker 1: Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 2: Es gab eine Gate Five GMBH in Berlin, die wurde von No Care gekauft in Finnland. Dann hat Gate Five, also dann Nokia Gate Five Mhm. Den Deal gemacht mit gekauft. Und diese beiden wurden kombiniert in oder. Das war dann sozusagen die neue Brand und das das neue Unternehmen.\n\nUnd das wurd auch ausgegliedert von Nokia. Das waren also 2 verschiedene Entitäten. Und war halt, das war halt auch basierend auf dem, was wir initial gemacht haben mit 'ner Jahr hohen anderen Kunden, der Gedanke, wir bauen jetzt nicht nur noch Maps wie Nokia auf Symbian, sondern wir bieten das als Plattform an, sondern deswegen hat man das ausgegliedert in Heamaps, das halt global einfach als unabhängige Plattform anbieten zu können, unabhängig von Nokia, was mit Nokia passiert. Das war die Storyline. Und wie gesagt immer noch heute am Markt, ne, wie man sieht.\n\nJa. Genau. Und neben der Plattform verkaufen die immer noch auch Mapdaten, ne, BMW oder Mercedes Automotive Industrie. Genau. Ja.\n\nGanz kurz zu der Offline Funktion. Das war so die Core Value Perposition von Ocar.\n\nSpeaker 1: Das hat von\n\nSpeaker 2: Kannst halt offline deine deine Navigation machen. Das Spannende daran ist, dass halt dieser Code, der auf sonem Symbion Telefon lief und entsprechend optimiert war, diese Navigation auf dem Telefon offline zu machen, den gleichen Code haben wir genommen auf den Server gepackt.\n\nSpeaker 1: Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 2: Und damit dann aufm Server Routing Kalkulation Geocoling, revers Geocoling. Es war halt son megaklein, ich glaub 10 Megabyte Package oder so. Und das konnten wir genauso aufm Server betreiben. Weil Servercode und kleinen Code war der gleiche. Das konnte halt online navigieren oder offline navigieren.\n\nSpeaker 1: Was was was heißt, was war das für eine Programmiersprache oder was würdest, war das geschrieben? Weißt Du das?\n\nSpeaker 2: A c plus plus oder A c. Ja, genau. Also recht und\n\nSpeaker 1: Das heißt, war eigentlich zuerst, diese Navigation war war für den Client gebaut und habt ihr, als die Plattform gebaut habt, dann einfach. Ja, interessant.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja. Und daher megaeffizient, was zum Server Serverkapazitäten angeht, ja, zumindest den Footprint, ja.\n\nSpeaker 0: Mhm. Spannend. Eine kurze Nachfrage, aber sonst müssen wir 'n bisschen weitergehen, weil Du hast noch andere spannende Stationen, glaub ich. Aber Du hast es gesagt, am Ende von deiner Beraterzeit, Consultingzeit hattest Du auch relativ viel schon so Projektmanagement gemacht. Kannst Du so ganz grob einauthen, wie viel das war, also wie viel Du Technik gemacht hast und wie viel schon das andere war?\n\nUnd war das dann 'n Asset, was sie spannend fanden, als Du dann gewechselt bist? Oder was war so, was wollten sie vor allen Dingen von dir, als sie dich eingestellt haben bei hier?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja. Also Projektmanagement selber bei Accenture. Wie gesagt, ich bin angefangen als Journalist, hab ich 'n IC, bin dann Richtung Teamleitung gegangen, hab mit 2, 3 Leute geleitet und dann halt mehrere Teams geleitet und so weiter. Es war eher so Peeple Leadership und dann einfach Delivery Management, ne. Also dafür sorgen, dass wir halt Features liefern zu den vereinbarten Zeiten und so weiter.\n\nDas war halt alles auch Wasserfall und so weiter. Mhm. Genau. Und Projektmanagement selber im Sinne von klassisches Programmmanagement oder so hab ich nicht gemacht bei Accenture, sondern eher wirklich und und Delivery. Aber in dem Profil hast Du ganz klar sehr viel Stakeholder, Kommunikation, Projektmanagement im Sinne von Delivery Management.\n\nUnd wann liefern wir was? Wie können wir Voraussagen, Schätzungen machen und so weiter? Und viel Architektur. Das war son bisschen so, ist auch heute noch, glaub ich, son bisschen mein Steckenpferd. Das Thema Architektur und so weiter.\n\nWelche Systeme bauen wir? Wie bauen wir sie? Und das war, glaub ich, interessant für Nokia. Also dadurch, ich war halt nicht nur 1 Nerd, sondern Mischmasch aus. Ich glaub, da spielt's jetzt aber während mein Studium wieder, nicht?\n\nAlso 'n bisschen so Elektrotechnik BWL, bei Accenture, Softwareentwicklung, Management, Delivery Management. Und dann bei Know how halt diese Rolle als P o Architekt, Leader auch Manager, Pro Manager. Also relativ breit aufgestellt, ne, was das angeht. Und halt auch in der Lage, a, mit dem Team zu reden über technische Architektur, Implementierung, Delivery, aber auch b, mit dem Kunden zu reden wie 'ner Yahoo. Und da entsprechend kommunikativ unterwegs zu sein.\n\nDas das ja, das möcht ich aufn Kunden loslassen kann. Ich glaub, das hab ich bei Accenture gelernt, ne, also wie ich mit Stakeholdern umgehe, Stakeholdermanager und so weiter, Upmanagement, aber auch ins Team rein, ne, technisch entsprechend technisch zu sein. Und ich glaub, das andere, was über Accenture gelernt hat, ich nenn das heute immer noch. Also im Detail drin sein, ne. Nicht irgendwie nur rumlabern, sondern auch verstehen, was wir tun.\n\nUnd relativ tief im Detail sein, wenn's sein muss, ne. Das hat sich immer so durchgezogen. Ich meine Karriere.\n\nSpeaker 1: Und das auch, das schaffst Du auch, jetzt spring ich schon 'n bisschen nach vorne weg, das schaffst Du auch heute noch?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, weil ich, also da kommt wieder das, was ich mal erzählt hab mit 'nem Spielzeug auseinandernehmen. Ich bin extrem, also ich bin sehr, sehr interessiert daran, wie Dinge funktionieren und das zieht sich bis heute durch. Und wenn es das schaff ich natürlich heute nicht in der Breite, aber es gibt ja immer so Battles, die man grade hat, ne, in 'nem Mhm. Team oder in 'ner Organisation oder wenn's bestimmte Produkt launt ist geht und so weiter. Und dann geh ich auch gerne entsprechend tief rein, halt die richtigen Fragen zu stellen.\n\nDarum geht's am Ende, ne. Erst mal eine Steam halt challenged oder schaut, okay, haben Sie haben wir an alles gedacht, ne. Und dann haben wir sind wir aufm guten Vater nicht. Und dafür musst Du halt schon 'n bisschen, glaub ich, Verständnis haben von dem, was passiert in 'nem Team oder in 'ner Organisation.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja. Find ich auf jeden Fall, also kann ich komplett nachvollziehen, weil ich auch immer das Gefühl hab, so gerade, also wenn ich auch Glück auf meiner Karriere, welche Manager ich am besten fand, dann waren's auch die, die mit dieser Attitüde rangegangen sind und ich auch das eigentlich selbst zu machen, wie man's, wie Leute es überhaupt anders schaffen. Ich glaub, mein Kopf ist auch ähnlich dann gepoltd wie schon Steiner, dass ich mich frage, wie würde man das überhaupt machen, wenn ich bei diesen Themen dann nicht so im Detail drin wäre so. Also ich merke das bei den Themen so, gerade jetzt bei uns im Produktmanagement Beispiel Deswegen ich bin sehr viel besser in all den Topics, wo ich auch mal es theoretisch auch mal schon selbst gemacht hab. Zum Beispiel ist meine Schwäche so mit so, würde ich sagen, auf Designseite so, weil ich nie selbst Designer war.\n\nIch hab's nie von der Pike auf gelernt. Ich kann da schon ganz guten Input geben, aber ich merke, das ist qualitativ ganz anderer Input und ich kann ganz anders auch führen, wenn ich in den Themen wie Entwicklung und Produkt und so, wo ich einfach überall im Detail auch mit drin bin oder zumindest mal war. Ja. Sehr interessant.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, es kommt halt dann auch die Erfahrung mit rein, ne. Ja. Wenn man halt viele Dinge schon gesehen hat. Jetzt ob man da, dann sieht man da, okay, wird das Problem wieder unsicher, ne. Weil ich dann sagen, okay, hier ist meine Erfahrung, hab ich schon mal gemacht, hab ich schon mal gesehen.\n\nWeiß ich, funktioniert nicht. Lass mal gleich vermeiden, Ja. Dass man gleich den Weg langgehen. Das hilft halt schon, ne. Muss man nicht irgendwie den Fehler mehrmals machen im Leben.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, cool. Ich glaub, Dennis hat das gemeint, wir müssen 'n bisschen weitergehen, sonst wird unser Zeitbudget hier schwierig, ne. Aber wie\n\nSpeaker 0: Oder willst Du willst\n\nSpeaker 1: Du die Frage zum Übergang machen?\n\nSpeaker 0: Jein, also eine Kleinigkeit noch, vielleicht zu so hier so einfach, dass wir 'n Business einordnen können, was die Größe so anging. Also mit wie vielen Leuten hast Du damals da zusammengearbeitet und wie stark hat sich das auch Unternehmen weiterentwickelt, während Du die 5 Jahre 5 Jahre bei bei hier warst?\n\nSpeaker 2: Also Teamgröße war, ich muss ja, 'n bisschen in neuen CVina schauen, das ist schon sehr lange her, aber ich glaub, es waren so 20 plus Leute, ne. Das war halt Mischmaß aus Infrastruktur, weil wir da wirklich auch Server selber gebaut haben. Da fing Amazon grade an, ABS. Nicht Amazon, sondern ABS fing grade an. Infrastrukturteam, Programmmanagement, Produktmanagement und so was.\n\nUnd dann, das war mein Team, aber das, was wir geliefert haben, ging halt eigentlich über das komplette Organisation, weil das halt Produkte aus verschiedenen Teams waren, die wir zusammen paketiert haben als Plattformen, ne. Also der Skope war schon größer als die 20 Leute, was was Produktmanagement angeht oder Programmmanagement war das ja dann im Endeffekt. Genau. Und hier hat sich halt dann weiterentwickelt mehr Richtung Plattformen, dass es heute ist, ne. Also wirklich, das waren so die die ersten Tage von dem, was man heute sieht, als.\n\nDass man eine Plattform hat mit APIs, die verkauft mit Services und Top und so weiter. In die Richtung ging das dann ganz klar. Wir hatten mehrere Kunden, wir hatten Bing. Wir hatten dann auch, na ja gut, Microsoft, wie ist das so was? Die hatten ja reines Mobile\n\nSpeaker 0: Windowsphone einfach, oder?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, Windowsphone, genau. Da war 'n Metall von, was da lief da nicht so gut wie er letztes Jahr. Genau, weiß, ob gapla, Amazon, die uns genutzt hat und so weiter. Das hat sich einfach weiter ausgebaut, ne. Und meine meine, bevor ich dann gegangen bin, haben wir das Ganze dann auch auf AWS gehoben, weg von unseren eigenen Servern global Data Center auf AWS Cloud.\n\nGenau, das war so die die technische Weiterentwicklung dann von der Plattform.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, schade damals, mit Duden das vorne. Ich fand das eigentlich 'n ganz netten Ansatz, muss ich sagen. Also von dem, was sagen, es war es war halt zu spät.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja. Genau, zu spät und 3 Player ist halt schwierig, ne. Ja. 3 Ökosysteme, ja.\n\nSpeaker 0: Wenn Bing damals schon ein Thema war, hat dich die Verbindung auch zu deinem nächsten Job zu Skype gebracht oder was völlig unabhängig?\n\nSpeaker 2: Gar nicht. Glaub nicht. Das war eigentlich privat. Also ich, meine Freundin zu dem Zeitpunkt war aus Tschechien, hat 'n Englisch gesprochen, hat mit mir in Berlin gelebt. Dann gesagt so, okay, sprachlich nicht so einfach für sie.\n\nWarum ziehen wir nicht in ein englischsprachliches Land, dass wir mehr gleichgestellt sind, was zumindest die Sprachen angeht? Und noch mal als Ziel irgendwie, in die USA zu ziehen. Und zu dem Zeitpunkt hat mich dann irgendwie Skype angepinkt und meint so, hey, wir haben da eine Rolle in Seattle, bist Du interessiert. Und dann bin ich da in den Prozess eingestiegen, wie Du aber vielleicht in meinem Lebenslauf siehst. Ich hab's nie in die USA geschafft.\n\nSpeaker 1: Zu sehen. Nächste Frage gewesen.\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau. Also ich war dann, weil ich kein Visum hatte für 'n Job in den USA, bin ich erst mal nach Stockholm umgezogen für ein Jahr. Das war der Plan, da noch 'n Visa zu bekommen. Es gibt diese L-eins-Visa, die bekommt man dann automatisch. In dem Jahr wurde meine Frau bescheuert.\n\nUnd dann hat sich, da hat die Familienplanung sozusagen den Umzug verhindert, weil weil das doch zu weit weg war, ne, ne. Also wir haben gesagt, okay, wenn wir 'n Kind haben, wollen wir nie an den an der an der Familie sein und sind an den Schweden geblieben. Genau. Mein Team war aber verteilt. Also ich hatte Team in Stockholm, Team in Redmond, Team in Estonia.\n\nVon da hat's eigentlich keine Rolle gespielt, wo ich war. Und wir sind dann in Stockholm geblieben.\n\nSpeaker 1: Das heißt, was war deine Rolle dann bei Skype?\n\nSpeaker 2: Bei Skype bin ich eingestiegen als Direktor, wie hieß es damals? Test. Mhm. Zu dem Zeitpunkt hatte Skype noch 3 Disziplinen, Produktmanagement, Software Engineering und Software Engineering und Test, also Testautomatisierung und hab die Teams geleitet, die Testinfrastruktur, Testautomatisierungen bereitstellen. Also bei Skype war ja die Challenge, wie testet man den Skype Client?\n\nDas ist ja jetzt nicht irgendwie 'n Standard Tool, was man irgendwie runterladen kann im Internet. Mhm. Drum ist irgendwie Audioqualität, Videoqualität in 'nem Skype oder Skype Gruppen Call testen können, automatisiert. Und das hat mein Team damals bereitgestellt, diese diese Infrastruktur, das Tooling dafür. Genau.\n\nUnd dann, aber es gab in der Zeit auch, ich glaub, 5, wo ich da war, hatte dann auch verschiedene Rollen, hat dann teilweise auch andere Teams mit mir übernommen. War aber superspannend, weil Skype grade weggegangen ist von der Peer to Peer Architektur, was ja so der Haupt, die Haupt von Skype war.\n\nSpeaker 1: Na, war das? Am Anfang war das alles Peer to Peer, das hatt ich gar nicht son.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja. Das war alles Peer to peace, was auch eine sehr, sehr geile Technologie ist.\n\nSpeaker 1: Kosteneffizient auf jeden Fall?\n\nSpeaker 2: Funktioniert leider nur nicht, wenn die Welt Richtung Mobiltelefonen gehst. Also wenn wenn Leute halt verstärkt Mobiltelefone nutzen, weil Skype halt einen der Clients immer als Relay verwendet hat. Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ne.\n\nSpeaker 2: Das heißt, grade wenn Du 'n Gruppencall hast, dann war 1 der Skype Clients der derjenige, der dann das Multiplexen der Videostreams gemacht hat und da ist halt schon sehr, sehr intensiv, was Rechenleistung angeht. Genau, deswegen ist man weggegangen von der Peer to Peer zu 'ner cloudbasierten Architektur. Außerdem hat man ja Skype und Microsoft damals, aber grad zu dem Zeitpunkt gab's so die Verschmelzung von, damals hieß das noch, Ich weiß nicht, ob wir das noch kennen. Sehr lange, ja. Ganz wildes Punkt, ja.\n\nIch hatte mal Memory League. 15 Minuten ist das Ding abgestürzt, konnt man die Uhr nachstellen. Genau. Also es gab und Skype und das haben wir halt verheiratet in einem Produkt. Skype for Business und Skype.\n\nUnd war halt cloudbasiert und Skype Peer to be und dann haben wir halt komplett, haben wir's eigentlich komplett neu geschrieben auf eine cloud basierte Architektur.\n\nSpeaker 1: War das dann damals 'n großes Thema so, Peer to Peer to Peer to Cloud? Weil ich mein, der Business Case muss ja schon 'n komplett anderer gewesen sein dann damals, oder? Weil ich mir, also ich hatte nur mal, wir hatten mal für Lotum haben wir auch mal so mal überlegt, ob wir ein Game bauen mit irgendwie Videochatten, weil bestimmte Funktionalitäten wollten auch überlegt, ob wir das mal selbst bauen. Da hatte ich mal son paar Brotschuppen gebaut und mal irgendwie Kostenhochrechnung gemacht und so was, wenn das, wenn wir dafür dann doch Serverinfrastruktur nehmen und so, ich sag mal so für einen Game an sich hat sich's nicht gerechnet so. Ja.\n\nDas aber das können wir vorstellen, dass das bei Skype durchaus auch, wenn es genau die Phase wurde da warst, durchaus Thema war so. Also\n\nSpeaker 2: Also weißt Du jetzt aus eurer aus 'ner Kostensicht?\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, aus 'ner Kostensicht auch, ja, weil ich mir vorstellen kann,\n\nSpeaker 2: dass es Also Kosten interessanterweise war kein Thema. War aber halt auch Microsoft Ja, klar. Schon mal, ja. Ich glaub, Skype so als freies Produkt, da macht halt Peer to Peer Sinn. Mhm.\n\nAber kostengünstig. Aber deutlich, dass Microsoft Skype aufgekauft hat, ging's halt eher darum, daraus 'n kommerzielles Produkt zu machen. Und halt die Skype Technologie, also grade die Audio- und Videokodex damals noch, einfach zu verwenden für auch den den Businessteil, der halt jetzt im Office mit irgend so nicht nicht sehr prickelnd war. Und da ging's halt eher darum, eine Lösung für Business bereitzustellen, wo's grade Gruppen Calls geht und auch große Meetings und so weiter mit 1000 plus Leuten. Und da, das kannst Du halt nur cloudbasiert machen, das geht nicht p to p basiert.\n\nJa. Das andere Problem war halt, dass der Skype Code, der war halt auch schon irgendwie 10 Jahre alt, da gab's halt Teile von Code, weiß nicht, ob man das erzählen darf, aber gab's gar nicht mehr als Hauscode, sondern nur auch als Inair. Und keiner keiner konnte das Ding ja auch irgendwie lesen oder oder mit arbeiten. Also Skype, kurz bevor ich gestartet bin, war ein Jahr sone Art Feature Freeze, weil keiner was releasen konnte, weil das Ding so broken war.\n\nSpeaker 1: Krass.\n\nSpeaker 2: Und da haben wir gesagt, okay, jetzt müssen wir was tun. Und hat dann diese Entscheidung getroffen, auf glaub passiert zu denen, ne.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, interessant. Ja, krass.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ich wollte noch mal son bisschen auf die Motivation. Also einmal in die USA zu kommen war eine Motivation, aber war jetzt technisch dann doch was anderes als jetzt eine Map Plattform zu bauen oder zumindest so vom vom Produkt her? Würdest Du sagen, da bist Du eher produktgetrieben oder technologiegetrieben? Also was was hat dich so motiviert an den Stellen? Oder was war tatsächlich?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ich glaub, also beides, glaub ich. Technologie oder warum Skype für mich interessant war und Skype bei mir interessiert war, war als skalierbare, cloud basierte Services. Das hab ich bei Nokia gemacht mit mit großen Kunden, die halt unsere Mapplattform verwendet haben mit entsprechenden Traffic, dass sie genau das, was Skype zu den Zeitungen wollte, dass sie auf die cloudbasierte Lösung gehen. Von daher war das 'n ganz guter Fit, dass ich da Erfahrung hatte, wie man skalierbare Services baut. Und für mich war das Produkt halt interessant, ne, weil's halt 'n hat.\n\nSkype hat halt Leute verbunden, 300000000 User damals noch. Ist halt schon geil, ne, wenn Du halt wenn die Oma den Enkel anrufen kann und und die sich über Video unterhalten können. Das ist halt schon noch mal eine andere Liga, ne. Anstatt jetzt eine Mapplattform zu bauen. Also von der Produktsicht auch interessant.\n\nUnd dann halt als Teil von Microsoft halt spannend auch zu sehen, wie sich das dann integriert an andere Produkte und so weiter und da diese Entwicklung auch zu sehen. Ist halt megaspannend mit.\n\nSpeaker 0: Wolltest Du noch was anderes fragen, Fabi?\n\nSpeaker 1: Nee, ich wir können gerne weiter zu Klarna. Überlass dir.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, Klarna, die zumindest Standardtier in der Nähe. Ich weiß gar nicht, haben wahrscheinlich auch noch oder nur hatten, weißt Du, das war wie in\n\nSpeaker 2: Glaub ja, ja. In Duisburg. Der der CTOs war bis vor Kurzem, wenigen der Jahren, das war mein beim Peer bei Klarna, ja.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, Klarna, wie ist es da zu dem Wechsel gekommen?\n\nSpeaker 2: Warum wo Genau.\n\nSpeaker 0: Also, genau. Ja.\n\nSpeaker 2: Also Skype Stockholm war halt, war 'n Team 180 Leute ungefähr. Die haben sich spezialisiert auf Audio- und Videokodex. Das gleiche Team hatte man in den USA, in Seattle, nur auf Microsoft Seite. Mhm. Und dann war es halt fast 'n Jahr lang irgendwie im Battle.\n\nWer hat den geileren Codec? Wer hat den geilere Codebase? Und dann war's relativ klar absehbar, dass Microsoft jetzt nicht sehr daran interessiert ist, irgendwie 'n Stockholm Office noch weiter zu betreiben, grade wenn's drum ging, das in die Office Produktsuite mit zu integrieren. Mhm. Da wollen sie doch mehr Kontrolle haben.\n\nUnd dann waren's natürlich abzusehen, dass Skype wahrscheinlich in Stockholm zumindest runterskaliert oder vielleicht gar nicht mehr existiert. Und genau, und zu dem Tappung gab's dann auch Diskussionen. 'N Freund von mir, 'n Kollege von mir, der war's grad mit dem war, der ist zu Klarna gewechselt und hat mich dann irgendwie 'n 300 Spieler angerufen und hat gesagt, hey, willst nicht zu Klarna kommen? Und genau, bin ich bei Klarna eingestiegen.\n\nSpeaker 1: Cool. Und jetzt was was war da deine Aufgabe, was war deine Rolle bei Klarna?\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau, komplett andere Aufgabe. Und zwar war ich da eigentlich so halt, ja, böse gesagt Projektmanagement, aber Delivery Management. Also Klarna war Größenordnung im Bereich 200 Leute ungefähr, 250 Leute. Und hat extreme Probleme gehabt, irgendwie größere Initiativen, also größere Produkte zu launchen. Haben grade versucht, 'n Kreditprodukt aufzusetzen.\n\nDas nennt sich heute Klararanzzahlung, glaub ich, oder oder so was. Und das ist halt irgendwie kläglich gescheitert. Und dann mal son bisschen die die Quintessenz, ja, wir sind irgendwie, wir sind sehr gut in der Produktion wirklich in einzelnen Teams. Aber wenn's darum geht, irgendwas über mehrere Teams hinweg zu liefern, komplettes Failure. Und hat dann diese Rolle Delivery Manager eingeführt.\n\nKlarna war damals, bei Klarna war der Marty Kaagen. Mhm. Der kam halt irgendwie einmal im Jahr rein und hat sie zusammengeschaut und gesagt, hier, das müsst ihr fixen, das war nicht gut. Und eine von den Action Items aus dem Workshop war halt, ihr müsst 'n Deliver Manager einstellen. Und das war ich, bin dann halt eingestiegen, hab dann zusammen mit dem CPO, CEO, CTO haben uns überlegt, okay, wie wie können wir eine andere Arbeitsweise aufsetzen, die halt auch funktioniert über Teams hinweg.\n\nUnd hab dann da son kleines Team aufgebaut mit Delivery Managern, die halt sich speziell son große Initiativen gekümmert haben. Als Beispiel halt dieses Kreditproduktlaune, ne. Und das hab ich son halbes Jahr gemacht, 9 Monate ungefähr. Und bin dann gewechselt Richtung wieder Standard Engineing Rolle. Also hab dann 'n Payment Team mit übernommen, hab dann 'n Plattformteam mit aufgebaut, also 'n Core Payment Team, die also Payment Gatebie und so was gebaut haben.\n\nUnd dann 'n Plattformteam aufgebaut, was es damals auch noch nicht so gab. Genau. Hatte dann auch wieder recht diverse Bandbreite oder recht große Bandbreite an Rollen.\n\nSpeaker 1: Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 2: Deliry Management, Core Payments und Plattformteam. Ja.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, supercool. Vielleicht als kleine, als Seitenwork Marty Kaagens ja auch bei uns bei Lottem großes Thema, also unsere Product Manager Rolle orientiert sich auch sehr an seinen Büchern Ja. Inspiriert und empowered. Also hier noch mal sehr als große Empfehlung gerne gerne lesen. Ist bei uns 1 der Bibeln, die auch Neuankömmlinge immer aufn Tisch gelegt wird.\n\nSo, das mal lesen. Ja. Find ich auch sehr interessant, dass dann dieser Delivery Managervorschlag auch ihm dann damals kaum in seiner Rolle als Berater bei Klarna. Vielleicht dazu die Frage, wenn das ein Problem war, was sie hatten, was bisher noch keiner ausgefüllt hat und dich jetzt zumindest in deiner Erklärung Delivery Manager noch nicht in deinen Vorrollen gesehen hat. Also warum hat man dich gefragt, dass Du dieser Delivery Manager wirst, der diese Probleme löst?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ist gute Frage, ne. Ich glaub, der der mein Kollege bei Klarna, der mich dann dort angerufen hat, der ist dort eingestiegen als, ich glaub, Director Engineering oder. Ich glaub, Director Engineering. Der hat das dann halt auch gesehen, dass es da Probleme gibt in dem Bereich, auch basierend auf dieser Analyse. Und hatte anscheinend den Eindruck, dass ich da vielleicht ganz gut drin bin.\n\nWeil ich, glaub ich, relativ strukturiert bin und auch relativ gut bin, irgendwie so Sachen zu organisieren, 'n großes zu haben und auf Deliver auch stark fokussiert bin, ne, in meiner ganzen Karriere. Geht wieder zurück trägt, Center wahrscheinlich, wo ich halt da sehr stark dort fokussiert war. Und hab mich angerufen. Und dann dacht ich so, okay, ist meine ganz andere Rolle. Bin halt wieder sozusagen als eingestiegen, weil ich erst mal alleine war.\n\nUnd fand das eigentlich ganz spannend, weil ich da auch irgendwie mal 600 sehr Zeit hatte, mich so auf ein Thema mit halt zu fokussieren. In Skype hatt ich irgendwie so 80, 90 Leute. Das war halt global verteilt und all so klassisches. Managment und so weiter und das war halt eine komplett andere Rolle, fand ich ja sehr spannend. Und anscheinend bring ich die Attribute mit, die die die die dazu führen, dass ich das irgendwie hinbekomme.\n\nZumindest gab's ja das Vertrauen wieder.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, wahrscheinlich könnte man eine ganze Podcastfolge alleine über über diesen Themenbereich machen, aber auch da würd's mich tatsächlich nicht mal so interessieren, einfach von der von der Stimmung und der Kultur vielleicht auch, weil ich mir vorstelle, ne, da sind irgendwie, sagt das irgendwie Run about 200 Entwickler in den in den Teams waren und jetzt kommt da son Delivery Manager, der hingesetzt wird, den man vielleicht auch vorher nicht kennt. Ja. Wie war so die die Akzeptanz und also Kommunikation zu was müssen wir anders machen, kannst Du da ein bisschen, also war viel Widerstand, musste man da irgendwie, auch weiß ich nicht, sich von Leuten trennen, wo es wo das von Mindset nicht passt. Also was waren so die die großen Herausforderungen vielleicht so aus kultureller Sicht?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja. Also kulturell ist sone Rolle immer schwierig, ne, weil das ist halt so, da kommt jemand rein, der ist nicht in son Team, sondern da kommt so und und will irgendwie mitdrehen und koordinieren. Ist erst mal wahrscheinlich, zumindest bei einigen Leuten kann man ganz klar sehen, Ablehnung, ne oder so. Was ist denn deine was sind dein Value Ads hier, so nach dem Motto. Aber ich glaub, das ist dann eher die Frage, wie man's angeht und wie man, dass man halt Mehrwert zeigt in der Rolle und ganz klar nicht zu stark in die Teams reingeht und diktiert, sondern wirklich eigentlich 'n Framework bereitstellt, wo die Teams immer noch sehr autonom agieren können, aber wo man halt Alignment schafft zwischen den Teams.\n\nWenn Du dieses Alignment schaffst, dass die Leute sehen, ah okay, wenn wir und wir uns vernünftig allein und abstimmen und ein Ziel haben, dann macht das auch Sinn für uns, weil wir dann als Company 'n Mehrwert liefern. Du musst also relativ schnell eine Art Framework schaffen, Arbeitsweise schaffen, wo Teams halt 'n Mehrwert auch drin sehen und nicht nur 'n Overhappt. Weil das Problem ist meistens bei diesen Rollen, dass Du mit welchen Prozessen ankommst. Und dann halt so Projektmanagements da irgendwie Teams halt mit Arbeit zu Ballast, die erst mal wahrscheinlich keinen Sinn macht für sie. Von daher muss halt so diesen diesen diese Grat vernommen inzwischen, ich helf euch.\n\nUnd ihr seht den Mehrwert relativ schnell versus Prozess Overhead für die Teams, ne? Das ist so die Balance.\n\nSpeaker 1: Und was was war denn 'n Allimment Tool dafür? Also für so die die Ja.\n\nSpeaker 2: Also der der Witz war das Problem noch nicht in Teams, sondern vielleicht müssen wir das dann rausschneiden, mal gucken.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja.\n\nSpeaker 2: Das Problem war halt klassisch wie niemanden Start-up, FounderLab, ne, Founder, CPO haben geile Ideen, die ändern sich aber auch regelmäßig. Und dann gibt's noch die Idee und dann gibt's auch die Idee und dann rennt der Founder zu dem Engineering Team und sagt, hey, hier könnt ihr das mal umsetzen, weil das ist irgendwie beste Zeit, beste Idee. Und das sorgt dann dafür, dass Sachen nicht geliefert werden. Das heißt, was ich erst mal gemacht hab, ist halt, wir haben uns zusammen gesagt, hat gesagt, okay, was sind eigentlich die Topthemen? Was ist 'n Business kritisch?\n\nJa, ist ja ganz klar. Ist das ist das Kreditprodukt? Ja, okay. Lass uns doch mal so die Top 3, 4 Initiativen identifizieren und die ganz klar kommunizieren und sagen, das sind so die Topsachen, an die jeder sich fokussieren sollte, ne. Und das haben wir gemacht.\n\nDa hab ich noch gesehen, dass es relativ schwer ist, sich daran zu halten. Mhm. Und das war dann irgendwie 3 Wochen später waren's dann irgendwie wieder 3 andere\n\nSpeaker 1: Gut, von wer wer kann sich später daran halten? Bestimmt nicht die Teams.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, genau. Und dann ist es halt eher und dafür sorgen, dass wir ganz klar kommunizieren, was sind die Top Prios? Und dann halt da eine Framework schaffen, wo Du sagst, okay, ihr lingt jetzt mal eure hier in diese ganzen in die in die 3, 4 Initiativen rein und dann haben wir 'n Reporting drüber und sehen, wo wir stehen und was noch fehlt und so weiter. Also 'n Reporting dann aufsetzen, dass wir da auch alle sind, was diese 3 Initiativen angeht. Aber primär ist das dann halt CPO, dass wir halt nicht die Prioritäten alle 3 Wochen ändern und Teams halt so sonen Seiler links und rechts gehen.\n\nDas wär dann echt so die Manchere Menschen. Ne. Der der ist son Google Sheet, da hat er sone Prioritätennummer bring geman Management, also das ist ja immer 10 Stück. Ich so, ja, okay. Aber die ändern sich jede Woche.\n\nUnd Du, der hat dann mal, also wortwörtlich hat er die Zeilen dann immer hin- und herverschoben jede Woche irgendwie. Und ständig hat sich irgendwas geändert, 'n bisschen, das geht nicht, das kann's nicht machen. Und haben dann halt also wirklich in der in der Klarna, in diesem in dieser Social Area, in Küchenbereich haben wir dann so Dashboards gehabt, wo wir so die Top 3 Initiativen, dass jeder gesehen hat. Und das Kreditding war halt top, ja. Und das hat sie auch nicht geändert fürs nächste halbe Jahr.\n\nUnd da haben haben alle gearbeitet. Und dann halt auch visualisiert, welche Teams da reinarbeiten, Wo stehen die Teams? Was fehlt noch? Wann wollen wir launchen? Business mit reingeholt.\n\nGesagt, warum arbeiten wir daran? Was ist das Why dahinter? Warum ist das wichtig für die Company? Warum wollen wir das überhaupt launchen und was ist der? Dieses Framework zu schaffen, ne?\n\nIch glaub, das ist halt wichtig.\n\nSpeaker 1: Und diese Vorstellung von dem Framework, ich fang jetzt grade so, woher hast Du das Know how gehabt, dieses Also ich mein, klar, es klingt ja irgendwie erst mal, ist relativ einfach so, ja gut, wir müssen die Prioritäten klarziehen. Wir müssen den Teamskommission, was die Prioritäten sind. Aber wenn Du da trotzdem sone Rolle das erste Mal kommst, woher hattest Du dieses Know how? War das einfach wirklich gelernt oder wie wie einfach gut Viel\n\nSpeaker 2: Skype. Mhm. Ja. Wir von Skype. Weil die haben halt so was gemacht, ne.\n\nWeil die halt, Skype hatte halt noch eine größere Engineering Organisation. Und da hatte man so Frameworks eingeführt, Planungs Frameworks so. Und von Nokia halt das Ganze, son bisschen der Probermanager Hintergrund, den ich da hatte. Aber da gab's nicht Probleme. Man muss eine Yahoo Plattform zum Beispiel 'n Datum liefern.\n\nMhm. Alignment über Teams hinweg und so weiter. Das war halt genau auch der Job da, ne. Also Erfahrungen aus diesem Programmmanagement und dann halt bei Skype ganz konkret das Framework halt. Natürlich angepasst auf Klarna, das war nur schon mal eine ganz andere Version, aber also der Hintergrund davon, das kommt von Sripe, ne.\n\nSpeaker 1: Cool. Ich will jetzt mal nach Klarna im Endeffekt, wir haben ja nennen das Ganze hier CTO Special, wir haben ja auch schon erzählt, Du bist aktuell CTO CTO von Blacklane. Nach Klarna kam der erste CT, also nach Titel her CTO Job so. Das war dann bei Join ProSieben. Ja.\n\nWie kam der Wechsel und war das irgendwie, also empfindest Du das als einen großen Schritt oder war das einfach nur, also ein ein anderer, der der ein ähnlicher Job mit einem anderen Titel?\n\nSpeaker 2: Also der der Wechsel kam persönlich bedingt, dass wir zurück wollten nach Deutschland. Und die Rolle CTO Rolle war, glaub ich, von der von der Größe der Organisation ähnlich. Aber ich glaub, dass Stakeholder war noch mal anders, ne. Grade bei 1 ProSieben, was ja doch eher Corporate ist und nicht Tech Company, nicht produktorientiert, war da, glaub ich, jetzt weniger die der Titel, die Challenge, sondern die Rolle halt in soner Art von Organisation erfolgreich zu sein, ne. Das war, glaub ich, eher der große Unterschied.\n\nSpeaker 1: Und war das, weil Du grade meines persönlicher umschreibe, war das aber etwas, also wie wie hast Du dich, war das etwas darauf beworben? War das auch wieder Vitamin b oder jemand, der dich angerufen hat oder wie wie wie kam es dazu?\n\nSpeaker 2: Also die meisten Jobs waren eher so, irgendjemand hat mich kontaktiert und meinte, Du hast Interesse. Mhm. Das war jetzt nicht aktive Suche. Ja, ich hab nie wirklich aktiv gesucht. Das hat sich ergeben irgendwie durchs Netzwerk oder Headamt oder was auch noch.\n\nUnd genau, und und dann war halt Dokumentationen halt 'n Aspekt, ne, wo nach Schweden, wo wollen wir hin? Berlin, München. Und das hat sich daran geben, München.\n\nSpeaker 1: Gut. Und dann als Du als Du kamst, warst Du noch für Digital Entertainment und dann ab 19 war's dann wirklich Join. So gab's ich hab den Hintergrund von Join eigentlich gar nicht. Wurdest da dann erst gelauncht oder hast Du Genau,\n\nSpeaker 2: das waren sie ein Venture. Also ich bin eingestiegen bei bei ProSieben, in der ProSieben selber, hab da die Assets, die ProSieben selber verantwortet hat, also Zot 1, ProSieben Webseiten, Apps und so weiter verantwortet. Und dann gab's die Max Dome, ich weiß nicht, wie das noch kennt oder so. Mhm. Ja.\n\nGenau. Und dann gab's halt die Diskussion, okay, macht das nicht Sinn, was irgendwie zusammenzuführen. Und das Ganze in 'ner Partnerschaft, also 'n Joint Venture mit vergessen, mit einem Streaming, großen Content Providern, 'n Joint Venture zu machen und das aus der aus der ganzen aus dem ProSieben kommen wir am Rad, halt 'n eigenes eigenes Büro und so weiter. Das war relativ schnell klar, so nach 'nem halben Jahr ungefähr. Und dann ging's halt darum, das aufzubauen und die Leute mit rüberzuziehen und so weiter.\n\nUnd dann haben wir ja, dann haben wir das Ding halt fürn Sketch aufgebaut, dieses Streamingplattform.\n\nSpeaker 0: Was war die Hauptmotivation, das zu separieren? Also wenn ihr auch technische Teams irgendwie da hattet, aber es dann trotzdem\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, einfach Oder wenn ich's dann vom Konzern, wenn wir ja so Start-up, weil Du hast halt schon, wenn Du am Campus bist, hast Du also diese Corporatekultur und 'n Board und Betriebsrat und das ganze Zeug, was dir halt viel Energie raubt, glaub ich. Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 0: Mhm. Und\n\nSpeaker 2: halt auch das Mindset, ne. Also dass Du weißt, okay, wir sind hier eigenständig, wir sind eigene Company. Und halt aus 'ner legalen Sicht, wenn Du 'n Joint Venture hast mit 'ner anderen Company, dass auch der Joint Venture Partner, der mit drin ist, auch sieht, okay, das ist eigenständig, ne. Und es gibt, ihr seid nicht irgendwie hier noch als Teil von der von der anderen Company irgendwie untergebracht, sondern physikalisch eigenständig, aber auch vom Mindset her eigenständig. Auch was Entscheidungstrafungen angeht und so weiter.\n\nWir sind, wir waren wirklich autonom, ne. Das ist schon wichtig.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, wie groß wartet das das Team, was ihr dann da neu gegründet habt oder wie die das Joint Venture, das ihr gegründet habt?\n\nSpeaker 2: Also als ich als ich dazugekommen bin, waren es, wenn ich 6 Leute oder so was. Was. Und hab dann aber Leute mitgenommen von der ProSieben. Es gab dann halt Diskussionen, jeden gefragt aus meinem ehemaligen Team an der ProSieben, habt ihr Lust? Ist halt ist halt 'n Holocaust.\n\nUngefähr die Hälfte am Team ist, glaub ich, ja, ungefähr die Hälfte. Ist ungefähr mitgekommen, hat gesagt, haben wir Bock drauf. Und den Rest haben wir aufgebaut, ne. Irgendwie 250 Leute zu Pik Zeiten. Auch viele Externe, auf viel Osteuropa und so was, also Externe genutzt, weil wir halt ungefähr 9 Monate Zeit hatten, das Produkt zu launchen.\n\nAlso da gab's Wie kriegt\n\nSpeaker 0: man denn in der Zeit auch so viele Externe dann? Also also es eher, also alleine irgendwie orchestriert, dass die an dem gleichen Ding arbeiten und dass es 'n Mehrwert bringt, so zu Also\n\nSpeaker 2: wieder runterbrechen, also das Problem, wir müssen eine Streamingplattform bauen, welche welche Komponenten gibt es? Welche Module gibt es? Und dann halt in Teams aufteilen und dann halt die Teams socen. Das hat ungefähr so 3 Monate gedauert, bis wir dann sozusagen definiert haben, wo wir gesagt haben, okay, das können wir jetzt eigenständig in son Team gehen, die dann irgendwo, damals war das noch, ja, Ukraine teilweise, Polen, die dann an an bestimmten Komponenten gearbeitet haben, ne. Es gab dann irgendwie, als Beispiel, Du musst halt eine Plattform bauen, Content zu injoston mit entsprechenden, ja.\n\nAlso Du hast ja in diesem ganzen Medienbusiness relativ viele rechte, komplexe rechte Systeme. Mhm. Wann darfst Du was ausstrahlen und so weiter. Da gab's 'n Team, der haben nichts anderes gemacht für 6 Monate, als das Ding zu bauen. Und das ist relativ eigenständig, ne.\n\nOder den Videostreaming Service für Livestream. Das kannst Du relativ monularisieren. Und dann hast Du halt 'n Team, dem machen nix anderes, aber relativ eigenständig. Und am Ende muss es halt zusammenkommen, ne, in in der UX und so weiter. Aber das kann man relativ grundunterbrechen das Problem, sondern Streaming Plattformen.\n\nFrontend wird halt schwierig, ne, aber zum Beispiel eine 'n Frontend zu bauen für eine TV Plattform, irgendwie Android auf auf Sony oder so was, kannst Du halt komplett outsourcen. Das sind Webfrontland Entwickler, das heißt, hier ist das Design, hier sind die Specs von dem Fernseher und dann geh ich mitm Baumer. Das können wir also schon schon recht gut skalieren.\n\nSpeaker 1: Das heißt, war's am Ende auch so, wenn ich mir jetzt son, wenn mir grad überlegt, wie son Set-up dann son bisschen aussieht, war das dann, da ich das ja vorher modularisiert hab? Ihr habt irgendwie in 'ner CTO, CPO mit Designern Rolle bisschen Zusammengabe und das Produkt definiert und dann son bisschen bestimmte, keine Ahnung, was technischeres, eigene Teams oder wenn sie extern irgendwo anders waren irgendwie geheiert und wenn Design ready war, das habt ihr in eurer Runde dann gemacht. Das wurde zum Beispiel an einen externen Webdesigner dann gegeben. Also so die Design haben ihr an euch gearbeitet als mit dem mit den Umsetzungsteams?\n\nSpeaker 2: Also die wir hatten 'n extrem starken Designer, Mhm. Der mit 'ner Agentur zusammengearbeitet hat. Die haben uns das Konzept erstellt, wie die UX generell aussehen soll, das bX Paradime und haben da relativ viel am Anfang investiert, weil wir auch 'n Pitch bauen mussten für die Investoren, also die beiden Owner, wie wir uns das Produkt vorstellen. Und das war dann die Basis. Und als wir das hatten, konnten wir ja nicht loslegen, ne.\n\nUnd dann konnten wir skalieren. Was wir aber gemacht haben, ist halt bei Join, ich sag jetzt nicht, dass ich Fan davon bin, aber eingesetzt, also PII Planning. Also wir haben uns einmal, ich weiß nicht, ich glaub einmal im Monat sogar, 'n anderen Quartal einmal 'n Quartal getroffen und haben halt das Ding durchgeplant, ne, projektmäßig. Da will ich jetzt nicht wieder machen.\n\nSpeaker 1: Kannst Du dazu noch 2 Sätze zu? Ich glaub's nicht jedem Begriff Nummer.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ah, okay. Framework Framework. Mhm. Wird gerne eingesetzt von von Corpels und so weiter, in Anführungsstrichen Planungssicherheit zu haben. Glaub ich nicht, dass das existiert.\n\nAber was ist halt, es hat halt geholfen, alle, wirklich alle Leute zusammenzubringen in 1 Location für ein, 2 Tage, wirklich versuchen durchzuplanen und eine Alimon zu schaffen, ne. Weil anders kannst Du nicht 200 Leute irgendwie in die in die gleiche Richtung schicken, das funktioniert nicht. Und da hat uns, glaub ich, geholfen, ne. Dass wir einfach die Zeit investiert haben, 2 Tage zusammensetzen, einen Raum in Anführungsstrichen, das war eine Lokation. Und da einfach versuchen zu planen und und Protein dann rauszufinden, okay, was sind meine Abhängigkeiten, was müsst ihr liefern und so weiter.\n\nIch glaub, das hat geholfen, ne. Würd ich jetzt für eine normale Produkteinwirkung nicht machen, aber wir so, Deadlinebasierte Projekte hilft das halt schon, wo man eine ganz klare Vorgaben hat, ne, von Investoren oder externen Stakeholdern. Ja. Genau. Genau, weil wie gesagt, Design war ab Front, viel Investment, ne.\n\nUnd dann hatte man 'n Konzept und 'n und 'n High Level Design zumindest und konnt dann die Teams halt eigentlich nicht da weitermachen pro Plattform, iOS Web und so weiter. Ja. Ja, so sehr spannend. Also sehr stressig. Ja, das Ich hatte\n\nSpeaker 1: auch kurz überlegt, als ich Du noch mal zurückgeblickt, wann Du mir erzählt hast, dass Du Vater geworden bist und ich mir dann Also zum Beispiel eine Frage, die mir auf der Zunge gewandt war, ich hab jetzt mal geschätzt, dein Kind muss vielleicht 5 gewesen sein oder sowas und Du hast ja jedem der Company gefragt, hey, wer hat Lust mitzukommen? Dann kam mir eigentlich die Frage so, war dir denn klar auf jeden Fall, das willst Du und willst Du machen? Weil son, das ist ja bestimmt auch ein nicht geringer, zeitlicher Investment, irgendwie 'n Rollercoaster, den man sich bestimmt auch zweimal fragt, wenn\n\nSpeaker 2: man Nee, die Frage stellt ich mir nicht. Nee? Also ich fand's einfach nur geil. Also ich mein, wann ab an die Möglichkeit, eine Streamingplattform vom Scratch aufzubauen, grade, wenn man technisch ist. Da ist halt Greenfield, ne und ist so geil.\n\nAlso ich bin halt immer up für eine Challenge. Also zieht sich durch meine Karriere. Auch bei Xentral haben wir schon, ne. Immer so ins kalte Wasser geschmissen worden, bisschen untergegangen und dann angefangen zu schwimmen. Das ist so mein Ding.\n\nDas brauch ich, glaub ich. So funktionier ich, ne. Ja, hat ja vielleicht 'n\n\nSpeaker 1: bisschen, was Du im Studium meintest, ne, dazu hat's niemand gesagt, oder ich weiß nicht, vielleicht hat ja jemand gesagt, das schaffst Du nicht, eine Streamingplattform aufzubauen, aber so, das ist ja, die sich selbst zu beweisen, man kann es so, ne, also. Genau.\n\nSpeaker 2: Und da ist das Pattern, ja. Ja, das zieht sich durch, ja. Ja. Das war aber schon als als Kind so. Also Fahrrad selber operiert, keine Ahnung, wie's geht, aber lass mal rausfinden.\n\nGenau, und bei Joan ist das nicht. Ich hab 'n Streaming davon gebaut und es gab auch riesen Riesenstress und viele, viele, auch freitags, nachts und samstags da gesessen teilweise. Aber als wir gelauncht sind und dann 200 Leute im Raum hatten und live gegangen sind, das war heut schon sehr geil. Also auch die Energie, die man dann sieht und so. Und dann denk ich dann so, okay, dafür hab ich gearbeitet.\n\nUnd das halt schon 'n geiles Gefühl, wenn Du dann sagst, okay, das haben wir jetzt geschafft als Team. Und dann müssen wir hinbekommen, 200 Leute oder über 200 Leute. Das war ja auch nicht nur das Produkt, sondern auch Marketing dahinter und so weiter und Content und was da geil und was. Ja. Und das halt dann live zu bekommen und zu sehen als Produkt und das ist schon ist schon sehr geil, ne.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und heute bin ich Kunde.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, ja. Sehr schön.\n\nSpeaker 0: Schick. Freak uns vielleicht zum nächsten Job. Das ist der einzige in deinem Lebenslauf, wo mir die Company nichts sagt. Sonst waren ja alles, glaub ich, recht bekannte Dinge, die wir hatten von hier und Skype und so weiter. Klarna auch natürlich irgendwie noch.\n\nIch weiß gar nicht, ich ich bin sogar unsicher, wie ich ausspreche einfach, weil's 2 n sind, aber, nee, wie heißt das? Sender? Sender. Sender, genau. Sender einfach.\n\nOkay.\n\nSpeaker 2: Logistik Company, ja.\n\nSpeaker 0: Logistik Company, okay. Was waren da\n\nSpeaker 1: Welche Challenge hast Du da gesucht? Genau.\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau. Die die, also auch wir sind wieder persönlich motiviert, dass wir nach Berlin zurück wollten wie in meiner Familie. Meine Familie kommt ursprünglich aus Berlin. Und Sender war halt interessant, also ganz kurz zu Join und ProSieben. Mhm.\n\nNach dem Launch war auch relativ klar, dass es eben wieder zurückgeht Richtung ProSieben und des Join Bancher, also ja wahrscheinlich aufgelöst wird. War dann nicht mehr so spannend, weil das dann auch Corporate wohl und so weiter. Gab's die ersten Einflüsse von der ProSieben in das Produkt und so was. Fand ich nicht so prickelnd. Genau, und Sender war halt 'n VC Fundet Start-up.\n\nDas war so das, na gut, Clan aber auch VC Fundet, aber schon noch mal eine andere andere Level und Sender war halt auch eher und kleiner. Bei Sender ging's darum halt 'n superkleines Tech Team, so wie alt, 30 Leute oder so was, das halt auszubauen, ne. Also sie hatten Sender klassisch angefangen als Plattform mit wenig Tech dahinter, klassisches Junior Tech Team, die halt eine Plattform gebaut haben auf Python damals. Mhm. Mhm.\n\nUnd die Plattform war aber, musste halt komplett umgebaut werden. Also war nicht mehr skalierbar, hat die Business Recoints nicht erfüllt und so weiter. Und da ging's halt darum, a, neue Plattformen aufzubauen und b, halt das Team auszubauen, halt einfach das Business da besser zu unterstützen. Das war interessant und die waren extrem interessant. Also da war in Nutthaka, war superspannend.\n\nDie haben mich im Interviewprozess eingeladen zum Dinner mit Familie. Mhm. Hatte ich so ordentlich. War aber echt geil. Also sehr, sehr nette Leute.\n\nGenau, das haben mich son bisschen überzeugt. Auch lange lange gehadert, ne. Und ich's machen sogar nicht, aber. David ist auch sehr, sehr hartnäckig, was das angeht. Gibt Licht auf.\n\nSpeaker 1: Das heißt, der ist der Interviewprozess wirklich ein 1 Schritte war, wirklich mit Familie zum Dinner kommen oder? Da hab\n\nSpeaker 2: ich noch Ja, also auch witzige Story, Familie mit meiner, also meine Frau, meine Tochter damals und mein Hund.\n\nSpeaker 1: Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 2: Und der hat einen Haufen gemacht im Davids Wohnzimmer.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ah, zum Dinner zu Hause? Ich dacht ja den Ball im Restaurant. Ihr wart bei ihm. Nee, zu Hause\n\nSpeaker 2: bei denen. Also David ist halb Italiener, kocht sehr gerne. Mhm. Kocht doch sehr gut. Und David hat damals noch zusammen gewohnt mit den anderen 2 Gründern, den Namen jetzt vergessen.\n\nNa ja, egal. Also die haben zu dritt gewohnt in 1 Wohnung und haben mich halt zum Dinner eingeladen und haben selber gekocht. Sehr lecker. Also genau.\n\nSpeaker 1: Auf jeden Fall 'n guter Ort, den potenziellen Kandidaten zu überzeugen so, würd ich sagen.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, genau. Nee, ist auch sehr nett halt, rauszufinden, ob man zusammenpasst Ja. Aus persönlicher Ebene. Und ja, es war halt sehr gut.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und genau.\n\nSpeaker 1: Und was habt ihr damals entschieden, wie wie der der, was war das für eine Technologie oder wie kam die Entscheidung zustande? Also ich hab ja jetzt mal so anhand der Homepage und so was gedacht, dass also Du hast ja schon gemeint so, Logistik so, also dass es eher so die Plattform geht, wie man bestimmte Logistikunternehmen mit irgendwie Orten a nach b miteinander verbindet, so. Also das ist sone Art von Plattform, das Logistikunternehmen nutzen, ihre Routen zu planen vielleicht oder so.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ist eigentlich ähnlich wie Blacklane. Mhm. Also ist 'n Marktplatz im oder oder 'n ja, too Site Marketplace. Du hast auf der einen Seite Shipper, das ist eine, das kann eine Coca Cola sein oder eine BMW oder was auch immer. Die wollen das Waren verschicken.\n\nUnd auf der anderen Seite hast Du 'n relativ fragmentierten Carrier Markt. Carrier halt. Mhm. Und der sehr, sehr fragmentiert. Das heißt, Du hast halt viele kleine so, ich habe so einen Truck, 2 Trucks.\n\nGibt halt auch große, wenn wir mit 20, 50 Trucks. Aber die ist eigentlich, diesen fragmentierten Carrier Markt mit Shippern zusammenzuräumen und diese Plattform dafür bereitzustellen. Das heißt, Du hast auf der einen Seite 'n Marktplatz für Carrier und auf der anderen Seite halt 'n, die man halt verschiedene Interfaces, wie Shipper halt ihre ihre Request da reinschicken. Genau, und das war halt eine Plattform, basierend auf Python und das haben wir halt ausgebaut, mehr Richtung serviceorientiert, shipper Portal rausgezogen, Carrier Portal rausgezogen. Dazwischen nur halt so Dispatchingangime.\n\nUnd das halt versucht aus, ne, halt zu friemeln, damit das hörlehbar wird, ne. Also was die Softwareentwicklung auch angeht, ne. Es halt 'n kleines Team, der an dem an dem Code gearbeitet und das skaliert halt immer nicht mehr, ne. Man hat halt das Business ausgebremst. Genau.\n\nUnd dann geht's ging's halt auch Sachen zu automatisieren. Das hat 'n sehr operatives Business, ne. Guck BMW, musst irgendwie Teile angeliefert bekommen im Freitagabend, weil sonst das Band steht und Du hast kein Carrier. Was machst Du? Genau.\n\nUnd damit ist halt sehr operativ. Telefon. Genau. Und solche Sachen halt versuchen, möglichst zu automatisieren, das war so die Challenge. Also klassisches operatives Business.\n\nJa.\n\nSpeaker 1: Obwohl da 'n guter Fund, mit dem ich kurz drum gewohnt hab, der arbeitet für eine Helikopterfirma. Das ist sind sind das die typischen Use Case, wo die Helikopter rausgeholt werden. Also das, die fliegen auch sehr häufig für für ja, so Automobilzuliefer und so, als Bänder, bevor Bänder stehen bleiben, geht der Heli in die Luft. Genau.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ist sehr, sehr teuer, ne. Ja, nee, Automobilindustrie ist natürlich sehr, sehr tough. Auch wenn Du als Carrier da 10, 15 Uhr zu spät bist, dann müssen die teilweise von Freitag auf bis auf Montagmorgen warten. Nur lassen die sich da komplett. Weil ey, sorry, dann Slot ist.\n\nAch so. Kommen in 2 Tagen wieder. Das ist der nächste Slot. Wenn's nicht kritisch ist, wenn kritisch ist natürlich, dann entladen sie, aber ist teilweise so, dass die dann wirklich Trucker da stehen lassen 2 Tage vorm Gate und die müssen nur einfach warten. Also recht toughes Business,\n\nSpeaker 0: ja. Und ist das irgendwie einen, hat das einen gewissen, ach, das richtige Wort, einen einen neuen Ansatz oder ist das eine Digitalisierung von Prozessen, die's vorhin nicht gab? Oder ist das eine neue Produktkategorie, die das da\n\nSpeaker 2: gibt? Also einmal die Digitalisierung von Prozessen, aber eigentlich die Hauptchallenge ist Digitalisierung dieser Industrie. Mhm. Und das ist, glaub ich, der Knackpunkt und die Schwierigkeit. Das funktioniert auf der Seite, weil die meisten halt sich irgendwie terrain können.\n\nSpeaker 1: Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 2: Kannst Du mir dann 'n Webportal anbieten, wo Du deine deine oder halt oder halt oder was auch immer für Interfaces, ne. Aber auf der Carrier Seite ist es halt schwierig, weil diese Trucker halt jetzt nicht sehr digital Natives sind, ne. Also wir haben wir haben halt eine Ad gehabt, wir hatten eine Webseite, aber die haben das teilweise nicht genutzt, weil sie halt auch, also auch an die Dollesories. Aber wenn Du mitm Carrie dich zusammensetzen und sagst und übers Internet redest, dann haben sie Angst vor dem Internet, weil sie Angst haben, dass ihre Bankdaten geklaut werden und solche Geschichten. Also ganz seltsame Neigung Richtung Digitalisierung.\n\nUnd da ist, glaub ich, der Hauptknapppunkt. Wie wie bekommt man da die Kombination, son Umfeld Digitalisierung zu betreiben?\n\nSpeaker 0: Gut. So Fabi, vielleicht sollten wir einfach, wenn wir, weißt Du, wenn wir mal sagen, Kim, wir können uns jetzt stressen und jetzt haben wir den Lebenslauf. Ich mein, wir erfahren ja auch so viel. Sind ja einfach super spannende Themen, die wir jetzt schon hatten. Da müssen wir einfach vorher akzeptieren, dass dass dieser Part schon viel eingenommen hat, aber\n\nSpeaker 2: auf jeden Fall war ja so\n\nSpeaker 0: spannende Sachen schon dabei. Trotzdem machen wir es noch komplett mit den Stationen, ja und vielleicht, also eine Fragestellung für deinen letzten, hab ich dann auf jeden Fall, der noch ein bisschen tiefer geht. Das CTO bei Flink. Ja. Und genau.\n\nFlink ist glaube ich so Supermarkt oder nicht Supermarkt Lebensmittelsachen bestellen innerhalb von wenigen Minuten da. Genau. So ist das davon ein bisschen.\n\nSpeaker 2: So war's am Anfang, ja. Mittlerweile ist nicht mehr. Wenige Minuten dabei, ja, genau. Also online, Ghost Street, Illuvene.\n\nSpeaker 1: Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 2: Als ich eingestiegen bin, war's unter 10 Minuten. Ich weiß nicht, ob ich nach drinnen, das war so in Coronazeiten, Gorillas und Flink.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja. Ach ja, nur in Großstädten so, oder? Das ist die Genau. Unter 10 Minuten.\n\nSpeaker 2: Aber es war echt Hype. Also ich, mich hatte Freunde und mich irgendwann mal, ja ey, das geht so nicht. Wie macht ihr das? 8 Minuten. Ich sitz hier beim Frühstück, mach mir 'n Kaffee und ihr seid da.\n\nWie geht das? Ja, und\n\nSpeaker 1: wie geht das?\n\nSpeaker 2: Weil das war so\n\nSpeaker 1: das war\n\nSpeaker 2: so die. Ist natürlich nicht bezahlbar, ne. Ist halt komplettes Verlustgeschäft. Von daher ist das jetzt eher zwischen 30 und 60 Minuten, glaub ich. Aber ja, es war schon sehr cool.\n\nSpeaker 1: Und was war halt mit welchem oder was war deine Challenge, als Du dahin bist? Was war was war dein Job? Was hat es zu tun bei Flink?\n\nSpeaker 2: Bei Flink vielleicht dann CTO. Also 1 der Co Founder Julian Dammes war der CPO, der Produktgemacht und 'n paar andere Themen, Marketing und so was, glaub ich. Und ich war der CTO und hab da das Team ausgebaut. Das war relativ am Anfang. Link hatte angefangen mit 'ner Acquisition, die haben eine Company gekauft, die sone Art E-Commerce-Plattform hatten mit 'ner Mobile App.\n\nDamit sind sie gestartet. Das Team haben sie auch eingekauft. Und das war relativ schnell klar, dass die Plattform eskaliert und relativ ungeeignet ist für das Businessmodell, was ich vorhin hatte. Und bin dann eingestiegen und hat das Team dann ausgebaut, dann halt die Plattform neu aufgebaut. Genau.\n\nAlso ähnlich jetzt glaub ich bei Sender, nur halt anderes Business, ne. Anderes Businessmodell dahinter und andere Challenges im Endeffekt vom Tag können wir halt Plattform umbauen und 'n Team ausbauen, ja.\n\nSpeaker 1: Und gab's da irgendwie größere technologische Challenges an der Stelle oder war das dann am Ende Ja, ja. Dann? Was Nimm ich meinen, die die die Größe davon mit.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, also ich glaub, die die Challenge war halt, Du hast 'n extrem stark wachsendes Business mit 'ner Lieferzeit von unter 10 Minuten damals. Das heißt, wenn's irgendwo Probleme gibt, schlägt sich das direkt auf deine Lieferzeit aus, ne. Du hast halt keine Zeit für Fehler. Die das Problem war halt, superschnell wachsendes Start-up mit 'ner sehr bei Plattform. Also denk jetzt einmal noch rum, Plattformen stabilisieren, das ist halt verfügbar.\n\nWir hatten teilweise zu Peeadszeiten nur eine Stunde Outage, ne, dass halt dann deine Formen da hinter dir stehen. Und weil ich verlier grad irgendwie 30000 Euro. Was macht ihr da? Das war halt eine interessante Challenge. Und halt generell die Funktionalität der Plattformen, weil Flink, Flinks Businessmodell basiert halt darauf, dass Du Hubs hast in den Städten.\n\nAlso Du hast so diese Darkstores, ne. Und diese Darkstores ist in 'ner kleinen Lager. Mhm. Aber Du hast halt sehr viele davon. Da hast Du 'nem begrenzten Einzugskreis, wo Du liefern kannst aufgrund der Lieferzeit.\n\nUnd da gibt's jetzt nicht unbedingt eine Standard E-Commerce-Plattform, wie er's kann. Also sie haben dann Commerce Tools verwendet als Standard Order Plattform, aber wir mussten halt alles drum rum bauen, was halt dafür sorgt, dass Du in diesem in diesem Modell liefern kannst. Und die Haupt Challenge war dann halt, na ja, diese, wir liefern ein Order mit einem Fahrer, der liefert die aus, kommt dann zurück, funktioniert halt nicht, was die Kosten angeht. Das heißt, Du musst halt irgendwann anfangen zu optimieren, zu sagen, okay, wir wandeln jetzt mal 2 Orders zusammen, dann nimmt der Fahrer 2 Orders mit, die irgendwie zusammenpassen, was jetzt, glaub ich, mittlerweile besteht bei 6 oder so was ist, wenn man sich die Fahrräder anschaut von flink. Und diese Optimierung, das wird halt irgendwann sehr spannend und auch sehr schwierig, ne.\n\nDas so Delivery Optimierung. Und dann hast Du halt die Optimierung, was die Warehouses angeht, dass Du halt kein keine keine keinen hast, ne, was grade Fischprodukte angeht und so weiter. Also ganze. Wie viel Bananen brauch ich an 'nem Samstag in der Woche von heute, weil wir die Bestellung aufgeben müssen und Du willst ja nicht die Bananen wegschmeißen am Samstag, weil sie nicht verkauft wurden. Das ist halt extrem.\n\nGrade in sonem stark wachsenden Business, wo Du halt wenig historische Daten hast, halt starkes Wachstum hast, da halt Forecastmodell aufbauen, ist halt schon sehr schwierig.\n\nSpeaker 1: Nichts. Davor wir vielleicht gleich zu Blackline kommen, was ich mich dir jetzt da frage, also wir jetzt mal mit deinem am Anfang auch gesagt, so Anspruch darin, bei den Dingen im Detail drin zu sein und irgendwie die richtigen Fragen stellen zu können, mir jetzt vorzustellen, okay, Du hast bestimmt ein paar Dinge davon dann auch schon bei Sender gelernt, was Du bei Flink irgendwie anwenden konntest, weil's irgendwie Logistik vielleicht 'n paar ähnliche Challenges hat, wie es dann auch Flink an der\n\nSpeaker 2: Stelle hat, aber\n\nSpeaker 1: wo Du auch meintest, so, da gibt's ja keine Standardcommerce Lösung. Ihr habt aber trotzdem eine genutzt so und wie war's jetzt auch, also Flink waren's jetzt knapp 2 Jahre, wo Du da bist so. Was hast Du getan, als Du reinkamst, in diesen Details so firm zu sein, dass Du da ausreichend mitdiskutieren kannst? Also wie ist das so, wenn Du in son neue auch Produkt? Ist ja nicht so, dass Du dass alles genau aufeinander aufgebaut hat und immer die gleiche Domäne war, in der Du dich befunden hast.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, ich glaub, Du Du hast halt ein ein oder 2 Probleme, auf die Du dich fokussierst, ne. Bei bei Flink, als ich reingekommen bin, war sie noch, die haben damals den komplett neu gebaut. Und der hat den kompletten Produktkatalog beim Start runtergeladen. Das waren 5 Megagmal Jason. Mhm.\n\nUnd wenn Du dann eine Produktsuche gemacht hast, dann warst Du eine Expression auf diesem Jason. Mhm. Wenn Du also nach Eiscreme gesucht hast, hast Du teilweise Windeln eingezahlt. Warum auch immer? Das hast irgendwie, das wär keine Suche, ja.\n\nAlso okay, das müssen wir lösen, weil das ist irgendwie das größte Problem. Mhm. Was können wir machen? Kaufen, bauen? Und dann fokussierst Du dich darauf.\n\nUnd dann gehst halt rein und sagst, okay, dann haben wir damals Algolia genutzt als Search Engine. Der sagt, kaufen wir jetzt und dann löst Du das Problem. Das war das nächste Problem. Kunden können ihre Kreditkartendaten nicht absprechen, weil wir's nicht gebaut haben. Okay, dann gehst Du da rein.\n\nAlso gehst halt, Du warst ja, glaub ich, 'n sehr guten, der versteht, was sind so die Hauptprioritäten. Und auf die fokussierst Du dich dann, ne. Und dann gehst Du relativ rein. Und dann gibt's halt Team, wo Du weißt, okay, das Team ist komplett on top, ne. Und dann siehst Du halt, okay, Teams strugglen, bestimmt lösen, gehen in die falsche Richtung und da gehst Du halt tiefer rein.\n\nSpeaker 1: Das heißt Da\n\nSpeaker 2: kann sie nicht überall tief dran sein.\n\nSpeaker 0: Das heißt\n\nSpeaker 1: aber in sonem auch so grade Start up mäßigen Umfeld steht dann schon so vor, dass im Endeffekt so Du super eng mit dem CPO da zusammenarbeit ist. Im Endeffekt son bisschen ist so CPO hat eine Vorstellung, Du bist dafür zuständig, die Probleme, die in dieser zwischen dieser Vorstellung und der Umsetzung liegen, einfach aus dem Weg zu räumen so. Und dann damit hast Du auch son bisschen so, weil dann ist noch relativ klar, was dein nächstes Battle ist.\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau. Also versuchst halt irgendwie eine pragmatische Lösung zu finden, ne, für die Produktprobleme, die wir haben oder die die Themen, die wir angehen müssen als Nächstes. Und dann, was ist 'n pragmatische, schnelle Lösung und was ist eine langfristige, sinnvolle Lösung, ne, und da irgendwo dann die Brand zu finden. Und da hilft es dann halt, 'n guten CPO zu haben, der weiß, wie man Sachen priorisiert, worauf Fokus uns fokussieren müssen. Und dann kannst Du dich als CTO halt auf die auf die Implementierung fokussieren, ne.\n\nUnd auf die Teams halt, Teamset-up und so weiter.\n\nSpeaker 1: Das heißt, bringt jetzt eigentlich dazu, Du brauchst 'n guten CPO, jetzt bist Du ja beides. Genau. Das heißt, Du entscheidest, welche welche welcher Battle als Nächstes bevorsteht. Erzähl uns doch mal was zu Blacklan und deinem aktuellen deiner aktuellen Firma, bei dem Du bist, was was genau ihr macht und was Du da tust und was deine Rolle vielleicht anders ist Ja. Dann zieht die O-Roll davor.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja. Bei, also Blacklane, ähnliche Problemstellung wie bei Sender. Grob gesagt, Du hast auf der einen Seite demand, Leute, die einen Chauffeur Service suchen. Und auf der anderen Seite hast Du halt 'n recht frenmentierten Markt mit entweder Einzelleuten, die also einzelne Chauffeurre oder sogenannte LSPs nennt sich das, Local Service Provider. Das sind so kleinere Chauffeur Companys, ne.\n\nDie haben ja nur 3, 4, 5 Autos, manche auch größer, die haben 20, 50 Autos. Und Blacklain versucht die beiden halt in Anführungsstrichen zusammenzubringen. Das ist so aus 'ner technischen Sicht, ne.\n\nSpeaker 1: Was ist?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja. Was\n\nSpeaker 0: sind denn die Definition 1 Chauffeurs an der Stelle?\n\nSpeaker 2: Chauffeur ist halt, dass Du vergleichbar mit 'nem über oder über Premium heißt das, glaub ich, in Deutschland, aber noch mal eine Ebene drüber, was für die Person angeht, die durch die Gegend färbt, dass die einfach die, der Service, den Du erfährst.\n\nSpeaker 0: Glaub ich ich will von a nach b fahren und also es ist immer noch 'n Fachfahrer von b und nicht, ich hol mir einen Fahrer für 8 Stunden und hab den zu meiner Verfügung.\n\nSpeaker 2: Also entweder willst Du von a nach b fahren oder Du willst für eine bestimmte Zeit fahren. Das sind so die 2\n\nSpeaker 0: Okay, es gibt beide so\n\nSpeaker 2: Phoenix Modi, die wir haben. Mhm. Und das Ganze halt mit 'nem Premium Auto, ne. Es ist so E-Klasse oder S-Klasse oder Fünfersiebener BMW mit 'nem entsprechend geschulten Chauffeur. Also nicht, sondern trainiert auf Service.\n\nAlso vergleichbar mit kannst 'n Dreistelligen Hotel buchen oder irgendwas kalt und wenn Du jetzt kalt und merkst Du halt, okay, die Leute sind anders geschult, die ganze Umgebung ist anders. Und den Anspruch haben wir halt, dass wir entsprechendes Servicelevel anbieten mit unseren Chauffeuren. Nicht nur das Auto, sondern halt der gesamte Service, den Du bekommst.\n\nSpeaker 0: Gibt's schon 'n bisschen länger Blacklane auch, oder?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, 14 Jahre jetzt, glaub ich.\n\nSpeaker 0: Okay. Ich meine mal in irgend soner wahrscheinlich noch Start up Phase, wo sie viele Gutscheine vergeben haben. Ja. Bin ich nämlich mal von von Bad Neuheim nach Frankfurt als irgendein Zug, ich wohn mit Blacklane, nach Hause gefahren damals, ja. Ja.\n\nOkay.\n\nSpeaker 2: Nee, ist schon 'n bisschen länger unterwegs. Ja. Genau, ja. Genau, also wir bieten Chauffeur Services an. Das ist unser Produkt, was wir anbieten global in 50 Märkten, was, glaub ich, son bisschen Alleinstellungsmerkmal ist von 'nem Blacklinen.\n\nEs gibt andere Chauffeur Services, eher traditionelle. Das ist eine, die sind aber meist lokal begrenzt und auch weniger irgendwie begrenzt. Und dann hast Du halt die Tech Player über und so weiter, die halt einen über oder anbieten. Aber es ist schon noch mal 'n anderes Level, was halt das Servicelevel angeht, ne. Also wir wir finden uns halt so dazwischen im Sinne von Servicequalität sehr vergleichbar mit den traditionellen und Tech oder Detail Experience eher Richtung Uber oder oder Lift.\n\nZumindest ist unser Anspruch.\n\nSpeaker 0: Wie bist Du da hingekommen?\n\nSpeaker 1: Vielleicht auch gerne, was hat dich da gereizt? Weil ich glaub, das ist jetzt das, was mich, also bei dem anderen wirkte direkt eine technische Challenge.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, also das das war eher so persönlich. Ich hab mit Blacklane vor 7, 8 Jahren mal gesprochen, hab Jens und den Frank Steuer kennengelernt. Wir hatten damals 'n CTO gesucht, war nichts interessiert und bin halt ständig mit Frank irgendwie zum Mittagessen, ne, hab ich mich mit ihm getroffen, so einmal mehr. Mhm. Und Jens dann teilweise auch.\n\nGenau, wir waren immer in Kontakt und Jens hatte dann mich kontaktiert und gesagt, Du, ich brauch einen neuen CTO CPO. Der Vorher ist grade gegangen, lange diskutiert und lange gesprochen und ja, dann hab ich gesagt, okay, lass es machen. A, also ich glaub, primär Company Kultur. Jens als Person, Rest Rest vom Team und die gesamte Kultur in Blacklane ist schon recht recht außergewöhnlich, ne. Sehr peopleorientiert, sehr people fokussiert, sehr angenehm dort zu arbeiten.\n\nHeißt jetzt nicht, dass wir nicht ambitioniert sind, aber ist einfach vom vom Umgangston anders gewesen, sehr eigen, sehr, sehr speziell, sag ich mal, Positiv speziell. Genau, das hat mich gereizt. Und dann war halt das Team, 'n bestehendes Team, 80 Leute, auch wieder alte Plattformen, Standard, Scaler Problem, ne. Irgendwie monolithische Plattformen, in dem Fall Ruben Rails, stark hinterher, CEO, superanhappy mit mit dem Outcome vom Tech Team. Genau, und das war so die die Challenge.\n\nEinmal die Tech Challenge und dann die. Also das Team entsprechend weiter ausbauen oder auch umbauen, ne. Die Organisationsstruktur war recht eigen eigenwillig, nicht sehr optimiert auf Produktfokus, doch eher Stakeholder fokussiert im Sinne von, was der Stakeholder sagt, bauen wir. Nicht datengetrieben und so weiter. Also gab's schon viele, viele Baustellen auch auf der Kulturseite, organisatorischen Seite.\n\nUnd genau, das haben wir jetzt umgebaut in den letzten 2 Jahren. Wir sind noch dabei.\n\nSpeaker 1: Find ich find ich irgendwie einen interessante Zusammensetzung, wo Du sagst so einerseits Kulturen wie irgendwie die Arbeitsweise nicht produktfokussiert und eher Stakeholderfokussiert. Das spricht für mich erst mal son bisschen, weil ich mein eigentlich war meine Frage so, was was zeichnet denn die die das das Umfeld bei Blacklinzer aus, dass als Firma das Du sagst, okay, irgendwie der Umgang miteinander, irgendwie die Kultur, die ist schon sehr besonders so. Da hätte ich jetzt erwarten, dass das vielleicht auch nicht als 1 der Probleme kommt, sodass Culture und Bieder 'n Produkt gebaut wird, dass das vielleicht einhergeht. Also die erste Frage, was was zeichnet sie aus? Was macht sie besonders?\n\nWas machen sie vielleicht auch anders, damit das so ist, damit das 'n Argument für dich war zu kommen? Und dann, wie passt das mit dem mit dann der Arbeitsweise zusammen?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, also ich glaub, die Kultur, Care ist, glaub ich, war 1 der, ist noch 1 der, die haben wir jetzt grade neu neu aufgesetzt. Mhm. Mhm. Care im Sinne von, wir wir kümmern uns die Leute. Wir wir sind, ja, nicht über die Arbeit hinaus sozusagen.\n\nUnd das fühlt man irgendwie. Also wenn ich mich mit Jens treffe, dann haben wir auch sehr viel persönliche Diskussionen, aber auch wenn's einmal nicht gut geht auf beiden Seiten, dann helfen wir uns irgendwie aus und dann hören wir zu. Und dann sind wir auch besorgt, wenn's einem nicht gut geht. Und das hat man nicht in jeder Company. Also vorherige Jobs, die ich hatte, war das auf jeden Fall nicht so, dass das schon sehr speziell, dass Blacklin wirklich für seine Mitarbeiter sich sorgt, meine Vorstellung.\n\nGenau. Die Kultur im Techteam war jetzt halt eher so, dass sie wenig datengetrieben war und doch schon eher klassisch auf viele Ideen, die halt umgesetzt wurden, die jetzt nicht unbedingt richtig priorisiert wurden datenbasiert, ne, sondern eher. Aber das, glaub ich, eher so klassische Start-up Problem, wo dann halt Stakeholder im Grunde entscheiden, was gebaut wird und welche Features wichtig sind, ne, ohne dass böswillig oder so oder schlecht, sondern einfach nur eine geprägte Engineering Produktkultur, die halt nicht standesgemäß ist, was so, wie man heut Produkt entwickelt. Glaube ich, ja, 'n Talentproblem.\n\nSpeaker 0: Wie viel p von CP0 war so in der in den letzten 2 Jahren dabei oder war's erst mal auch aus Techsicht? Weißt, wo Du sagtest, da hab ich noch den größeren Hebel?\n\nSpeaker 2: Aufteilung, gute Frage. Wahrscheinlich mehr p als e, also mehr Produkte als Engineering, am Anfang zumindest, weil meine Sichtweise ist halt, kannst 'n Team mit 100 Ingenieure haben. Die das falsche Produkt bauen, bringt das relativ wenig. Oder wenn die in der falschen Themen arbeiten, ne. Das heißt, erst mal war die Frage, okay, was was sind eigentlich die Probleme?\n\nWas wollen wir auf Businessseite erreichen? Was müssen wir bauen? Wo müssen wir investieren, ne? In die Mobile App oder in die Web Webpräsenz? Ist es eher B2B oder eher B2C?\n\nBlacklin ist halt beides, B2C und B2B.\n\nSpeaker 1: Und\n\nSpeaker 2: da halt entscheiden, welche Features sind wichtig, dann halt Effizienz oder sich danach halt dann drauf zu fokussieren, okay, wie machen wir's denn? Können wir mit der Plattform weitermachen? Brauchen eine neue Plattform? Wie würden wir sie umbauen und so weiter? Aber das ist erst mal, glaub ich, zweitrangig, wenn Du nicht weißt, was das Problem ist, was Du lösen willst.\n\nDaher war anfänglich, glaub ich, eher erst mal Produkt. Und jetzt ist halt immer so hin und her, ist grade gemischt, ne. Wir bauen jetzt grad die Plattform bauen eine komplette neue Plattform auf. Aber auch wieder sehr produktgetrieben, ne, was eigentlich Probleme, die wir lösen wollen. Warum machen wir das?\n\nJa.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja. Vielleicht für mich die Frage, die mich jetzt am meisten interessiert bei deiner aktuellen Rolle noch, ist, CTO und CPO eher was Allgemeines so. Du hast vorher immer, gut, bei Sender warst Du auch schon CPO mit, aber hältst Du den Mix aus CTO und CPO für den für den richtigen Schritt als Company, das in 1 Rolle zu vereinen oder welche pro und contras siehst Du darin?\n\nSpeaker 2: Also ich glaub, es kommt 'n bisschen auf die Struktur da drunter an, auch. Also ich hab jetzt 2 Director products und 2 Director Engineering. Mhm. Mhm. Dadurch, dass wir ja sind, haben wir sozusagen die Chauffeur Seite und die Seite.\n\nWir nennen das. Mhm. Und jeweils da Produkt Produkt dann hinten direktor drauf. Und die verantworten diese 2 Seiten der Plattform recht eigenständig. Was mir halt hilft, mich son bisschen mehr als auf die Businessseite zu fokussieren, zu verstehen, was müssen wir als Company für eine Richtung einschlagen?\n\nDa bin ich auch recht stark involviert und das dann halt umsetzen in die Produktstrategie. Und dann hilft es mir zumindest, und ich glaub, auch der Organisation, hoff ich zumindest, diese Abwägung zu treffen. Können wir das können wir das nicht, wenn wir das machen, ist das möglich technisch oder was müssen wir auf technischer Seite machen? Das vereinfacht sehr viel. Der Nachteil ist halt, Kapazität zu haben, ne, also auch für beides.\n\nDas ist son bisschen die Challenge, glaub ich. Also das kann halt schon sehr stressig sein teilweise. Aber Du hast halt weniger Abstimmungsbedarf, ne, zwischen dem CPO und CTO. Jetzt können wir dann argumentieren, dass halt so, meistens. Mhm.\n\nAber ich glaub, das ist dann halt vielleicht auch 'n bisschen Erfahrungssache. Also ich hab mit vielen guten Produktleuten zusammengearbeitet. Ich war mal sehr produktorientiert auch in meinen Rollen. Hab auch immer stark auf Produktseite mitgearbeitet. Das hilft mir halt, jetzt beide Seiten abzubilden und mit 'nem Team dadrunter, was es dann halt umsetzen kann und auch mitgestalten kann.\n\nAlso mir hilft mir, ich glaube, in der Blacklane hilft das. Wir sind dadurch, glaub ich, etwas effizienter in der Umsetzung.\n\nSpeaker 1: Und glaubst Du, dass sone Rolle CTO, CPO nur von ihm ausgelebt werden kann, der vorher schon mal CTO war und dann die CPO Rolle dazu auch noch mit annimmt? Oder gibt es auch, siehst Du auch Beispiele dafür, dass CPOs die CTO Rolle mit annehmen so?\n\nSpeaker 2: Also ich bin halt, ich glaub, meine Zeit bei Nokia und bei Skype hat das son bisschen geprägt. Bei Skype war es so, Skype ist halt Microsoft gewesen und die Kultur bei Microsoft und bei Skype war halt alle sehr, sehr technisch bis zum CEO, ne. Ich meine, Bill Gates selber war halt megatechnisch unterwegs, ne. Und das, der Anspruch war halt da, immer zu sagen, okay, da gab's den Split zwischen Produkt und Engineering, aber die die konnten auch nicht zu jeder Zeit, konnte man austauschen. Die konnten beides.\n\nSpeaker 1: Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 2: Weil die Produktleute sehr technisch waren und die waren sehr produktfokussiert. Und das hab ich da gelernt und auch weitergelebt. Und das war bei Klarna genauso, ne. Bei Klarna musste man sehr technisch sein als Produktmensch und aber auch als Engineer musste man sehr produktfokussiert sein, weil der Gründer und der CPO und alle waren sehr produktfokussiert, ne. Wenn man so in diesem Umfeld aufwächst, dann hat man immer diesen Produktfokus, auch als Ingenieur oder als CTO.\n\nUnd so betrat ich auch meine Organisation aktuell und das ist auch mein Anspruch an die Organisation. Und wenn Du 'n Engineering Manager bist, kannst Du nicht kannst Du nicht sagen, ist mir egal, was wir bauen. Ich kümmer mich nur den Engineering Teil und musst 'n Produktfokus mitbringen. Und ViceVERSER, Produktleute müssen son bisschen teiltechnisch sein und verstehen, wie das umgesetzt wird, ne. Und wenn Du das mitbringst, dann kann man das, glaub ich, kombinieren ganz gut.\n\nDas heißt aber, Du musst das mal gesehen haben, Du musst das mal erlebt haben. Du musst in der Organisation gearbeitet haben, wo das so ist, wo das auch so funktioniert.\n\nSpeaker 1: Kann man ja nur halt eher so vorstellen, dass man wie diesen Produktteil, wenn man den technischen Background hat, eher und der Job irgendwie mitlernen kann, wenn man dafür interessiert ist und so und wenn man aus der Produktsicht kommt, den technischen Teil eher nicht so einfach mitlernt so durchs Zugucken.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, aber ich glaube, Produkt ist auch nicht simpel. Also man Definitiv nicht. Das sieht sieht so aus, sagt dem Motto, ich hab auch eine Meinung, wie das Produkt funktionieren sollte. Aber wirklich ist dann Produktmanagement im Sinne von und und so weiter wirklich verstehen und analysieren, wie man 'n Produkt voranbringt und optimiert und weiteroptimiert, das ist schon immer eine andere Liga. Also ich kann kann man, glaub ich, nicht einfach unsere Job unbedingt leer.\n\nMuss man, glaub ich, eine Weile gemacht haben in in 'ner Art und Weise, ja. Oder eine eine Organisation, die sehr gut ist und das da mitnehmen, ne, und beobachten. Aber wenn ich jetzt reiner Ingenieur CTO bin, der wenig produkt fokussiert war und dann in eine Protokolle zu gehen, ist halt, glaub ich, schwierig, das, glaub ich.\n\nSpeaker 1: Nee, klar, ich Also da muss das Interesse auch dafür da sein und vorher mich schon mit jetzt kritisiert haben. Ich mein, ich hab selbst aus dem Weg gemacht von vorher Full Stack Engineering zu jetzt hauptsächlich Product Management so und das ist würd auch sagen, es ist für mich der schwierigere Job. Facettenreichere, aber der schwierigere. Aber so, genau, da man kann son bisschen, wenn man die, wenn man das, wenn man die Lust darauf hat, so während man den Engineering Manager vielleicht macht, so im Produkt dann mitarbeiten, sich die Skills irgendwie vielleicht mit drauf schaffen, irgendwie Interesse haben und irgendwie sich's mit anschauen, als dann, wenn man lange Produkte macht, dann zu sagen zu sagen, ach, ich fang jetzt noch mal an zu entwickeln und probier noch mal wirklich von der Pike auf zu lernen, hab ich's viel wäre der schwierige. Aber das war, glaub ich, der Case, den ich son bisschen vielleicht aufmachen wollte.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja. Aber wahrscheinlich könntest Du als Produktmanager, wenn Du sehr technisch unterwegs bist, dass Du mal gesehen hast, wahrscheinlich sone Engineering Managerrolle einnehmen. Ja. Son bisschen 'nem gewissen Grade, wahrscheinlich weniger, mehr so People Management teil und Delivery teil. Das könnte wahrscheinlich von Sinn.\n\nJa, mal Coding natürlich nicht, ne.\n\nSpeaker 1: Aber ist meintest das trotzdem, was was Du meintest so kulturell halt interessant, dass Du auch grade meintest bei Skype oder halt auch Microsoft im Allgemeinen, da könnten der Produktfokussierte und der Engineering Manager irgendwie theoretisch tauschen. Ich war auch vorher in anderen Enterprises, während man lange Zeit auf meiner großen Bank gearbeitet, da würde das absolut gar nicht funktionieren. Während auf Product Seite ist, ist wirklich so sehr weit entfernt von dem Technischen so. Und da da könnte ich's mir in soner Konzession gar nicht vorstellen. Klar, bei uns jetzt bei Lotum ist die Kombination auch eine andere.\n\nDa haben wir ganz viele von diesen Wechseln und da, ja, auf jeden Fall. So, bei uns können eigentlich fast jeder macht auch genauso gut Engineering machen.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja. Und zum Beispiel Amazon, ne, die haben ja ein ähnliches Modell, die haben ja diese GM Modelle. Du bist halt 'n GM für irgend eine Unit, weiß ich, wenn jetzt bei, ich hab mal den GM getroffen von Amazon s 3. Das ist halt 'n Hardcore Leader und die verantwortet halt s 3 als als als Unit, als Business, ne. Hat aber 'n sehr starkes Produktverständnis, Businessverständnis und 'n technisches Verständnis.\n\nDa Amazon fährt nicht jedes Modell, ne, zumindest auf der Ebene. Darunter splittest Du das dann, glaub ich, auf, aber ist sehr ähnlich, ne. Aber ist halt eine spezielle Art von Leuten, glaub ich.\n\nSpeaker 1: Und Du\n\nSpeaker 2: musst halt Interesse daran haben und 'n Bock drauf haben, ne.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ne. Sehr cool.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ich hab jetzt Manager, die ist bei uns als EM eingestiegen und macht jetzt auch grade Produkt mit. Mhm. Und das funktioniert ganz gut. Hat da Bock drauf und ist extrem effizient unterwegs. Was das noch?\n\nWeniger Abstimmungsbedarf mit sich selber, ja. Ja.\n\nSpeaker 1: Sehr cool.\n\nSpeaker 0: Eine Frage, die wir gerne am Ende noch einmal stellen in unseren CTO Specials ist, wenn Du jetzt noch mal zurückreisen könntest und deinem jungen Ich irgendwas ins Ohr flüstern kannst, fällt dir da irgendwie spontan was ein, wo Du sagen würdest so, ach, wenn ich diese Erkenntnis damals schon gehabt hätte, dann hätt ich irgendwas grundlegend anders gemacht?\n\nSpeaker 2: Also Spaß bei sehr, aber Microsoft Aktien investieren? Ja? Ja, wenn ich den Preis mit anschauen und dann würd ich mir das flüstern. Hätt ich dir was anders gemacht? Gute Frage.\n\nAlso im im im Kleinen wahrscheinlich schon, aber so generell bin ich eigentlich ziemlich zufrieden mit dem, was ich erleben durfte mit meiner Karriere. Ich kann mich nicht beschweren. Mhm. Ich hatte extrem spannende Challenges und hatte immer Glück. Also muss ich wirklich sagen, ich hatte, natürlich gab's Challenges, ne, und und auch nicht alles rosig, aber ich hatte irgendwie immer Glück, dass ich Spaß hatte in meinem Job.\n\nIch glaub, was ich mir selber mitgeben würde, wenn man keinen Spaß mehr hat, dann ist es auch gut und dann kann man auch weiterziehen und da ist nichts Schlimmes Schlimmes dabei. Ich glaub, das ist wichtig, dass man Spaß hat und Passion hat für seinen Job, ne. Ansonsten macht das keinen Sinn. Das gesagt, ja, man muss aber auch manchmal durchhalten, ne und auch irgendwie haben und durch durch Challenges durchgehen. Also das ist, glaub ich, auch wichtig.\n\nDas seh ich halt heute so in der grade son Berliner Markt, da wird halt viel, wenn mal irgendwie was nicht funktioniert, dann gehen ziehen Leute gleich weiter direkt. Ich glaub, man muss ja mal haben, ne. Das ist nicht immer, das Gras ist nicht immer grün auf der anderen Seite. Ja. Genau.\n\nAber generell bin ich ziemlich happy mit meinem Werdegang. Hatte echt viel Glück in meine Kehle und immer noch Spaß.\n\nSpeaker 1: Sehr cool. Na, eine Frage, die mich noch zum Schluss interessiert. Du hast am Anfang gemeint, dein sechsjähriger älterer Bruder, der war eigentlich am Anfang der Nerd. Wenn man jetzt deinen Werteigungswissen anschaut, dann bist Du's definitiv auch. Ist das denn jetzt immer noch so?\n\nSeid ihr jetzt 2 Nerds oder hat sich dein Bruder in die andere Richtung entwickelt?\n\nSpeaker 2: Nee, ich glaub, er ist immer mehr Nerd als ich bin. Ich bin, ich hab mich, glaub ich, mehr Richtung halt Videoschirm und so was entwickelt hat, immer noch sehr technisch unterwegs, aber ich glaub halt nicht so der, ja, jetzt bin ich am Wochenende nicht mehr hin und code irgendwas. Das hab ich zum letzten Mal bei Klarna gemacht irgendwie so als Hobbyprojekt oder jetzt wieder mit Cloud Code und so weiter. Ja. Kenn ich das wieder, zumindest krieg so, kann ich so tun, als ob.\n\nNee, aber ich glaub, er ist immer mehr Nerd, als als ich das bin.\n\nSpeaker 1: Sehr\n\nSpeaker 0: schön. Ja, sehr handel von dir vieles auch auf das Glück zu beziehen. Ich glaube, mit Sicherheit hast Du auch viele Dinge sehr richtig gemacht, dass Du die Möglichkeit hattest, in in diesen verschiedenen Rollen zu arbeiten und und da mitzuwirken und mit Sicherheit einiges bewirkt hast bei den all den Firmen. Von daher vielen vielen Dank, Dirk, dass Du uns ein bisschen teilhaben hast an all dem, was Du erlebt hast. Ich fand es mega spannend, das mitzubekommen.\n\nDanke. Und wünsche dir auf jeden Fall auch ganz viel Glück und Erfolg dann in den nächsten Stationen, die noch auf mich zukommen werden.\n\nSpeaker 2: Vielen Dank. Danke dir auch. Macht's gut. Tschau. Tschüss.",[44727,44734,44740,44751,44756,44766,44778,44783,44795,44808,44821,44831,44835,44846,44850,44855,44867,44880,44893,44906,44919,44923,44928,44933,44942,44953,44964,44968,44980,44992,45004,45009,45021,45028,45031,45034,45045,45058,45070,45075,45088,45101,45114,45127,45139,45152,45165,45175,45184,45196,45207,45219,45224,45228,45240,45252,45265,45271,45275,45278,45282,45293,45306,45311,45320,45330,45336,45348,45359,45365,45372,45376,45383,45387,45394,45399,45402,45414,45427,45431,45443,45450,45454,45457,45469,45482,45490,45497,45501,45508,45511,45524,45531,45538,45545,45550,45561,45567,45578,45588,45600,45612,45625,45637,45645,45650,45663,45673,45685,45695,45706,45719,45726,45730,45734,45740,45752,45764,45777,45781,45794,45798,45806,45814,45818,45830,45842,45848,45859,45870,45877,45882,45893,45903,45909,45915,45920,45924,45931,45934,45946,45958,45962,45974,45979,45983,45988,45999,46012,46021,46024,46030,46035,46047,46059,46071,46077,46082,46088,46094,46102,46106,46110,46115,46126,46137,46147,46152,46164,46176,46188,46201,46208,46211,46216,46228,46239,46251,46264,46277,46281,46291,46303,46316,46322,46328,46332,46335,46347,46359,46367,46373,46385,46397,46409,46421,46433,46437,46448,46457,46469,46480,46490,46494,46507,46513,46524,46533,46543,46553,46564,46569,46575,46580,46584,46596,46602,46607,46618,46630,46634,46640,46652,46663,46675,46683,46694,46706,46716,46722,46733,46745,46755,46766,46775,46786,46798,46806,46812,46823,46835,46846,46850,46856,46867,46877,46880,46884,46890,46895,46905,46917,46927,46939,46950,46962,46968,46972,46975,46979,46989,47000,47010,47014,47023,47027,47036,47047,47059,47071,47082,47093,47103,47106,47115,47127,47139,47146,47156,47159,47172,47178,47189,47193,47203,47210,47220,47223,47229,47238,47250,47256,47260,47264,47268,47280,47288,47300,47311,47317,47324,47336,47348,47359,47372,47384,47388,47393,47397,47410,47421,47432,47443,47455,47468,47472,47476,47480,47488,47499,47503,47514,47526,47534,47538,47542,47546,47550,47554,47560,47564,47575,47583,47588,47592,47601,47604,47614,47626,47630,47634,47640,47651,47663,47675,47687,47693,47705,47711,47721,47733,47742,47748,47760,47772,47776,47779,47791,47803,47806,47814,47824,47835,47847,47858,47870,47876,47882,47895,47898,47910,47922,47928,47932,47944,47952,47965,47975,47979,47991,47997,48008,48016,48020,48024,48029,48040,48045,48048,48052,48063,48074,48087,48097,48103,48114,48118,48129,48133,48136,48147,48152],{"sentences":44728,"speaker":143,"num_words":44733,"start":140,"end":235},[44729,44731],{"text":44730,"start":140,"end":188},"Hallo und herzlich willkommen zu einem neuen CTO Special der Programmierbar.",{"text":44732,"start":193,"end":235},"Mein ist Dennis Becker und ich sitze hier heute gemeinsam mit mit",23,{"sentences":44735,"speaker":122,"num_words":44739,"start":235,"end":253},[44736,44738],{"text":44737,"start":235,"end":248},"dem Fabi Fink.",{"text":255,"start":248,"end":253},4,{"sentences":44741,"speaker":143,"num_words":44750,"start":257,"end":507},[44742,44744,44746,44748],{"text":44743,"start":257,"end":419},"Und unser heutiger Gast hat einige Stationen in seinem Lebenslauf, die man nicht erläutern muss, weil ich glaube, viele sie einfach kennen, sei es bei Skype von Microsoft hörbar, beim Zahlungsanbieter Klarna oder auch beim Streamingdienst Join von ProSieben, Sat.",{"text":44745,"start":419,"end":449},"1 und ist heute CTO und CPO von Blacklane.",{"text":44747,"start":453,"end":466},"Herzlich willkommen Dirk Daumann.",{"text":44749,"start":470,"end":507},"Dirk, sehr schön, dass Du dir die Zeit genommen hast.",63,{"sentences":44752,"speaker":514,"num_words":44755,"start":511,"end":556},[44753],{"text":44754,"start":511,"end":556},"Ja, vielen Dank für die Einladung und die Chance zu sprechen mit euch.",13,{"sentences":44757,"speaker":143,"num_words":44750,"start":556,"end":780},[44758,44760,44762,44764],{"text":44759,"start":556,"end":589},"Ja, wir starten super gerne in dem CTO Podcast.",{"text":44761,"start":593,"end":654},"Man könnte fast schon sagen nach Schema F, weil wir es mittlerweile immer so ein bisschen machen.",{"text":44763,"start":654,"end":718},"Aber wir würden gerne einmal ganz weit zurückreisen und so ein bisschen deinen ersten Kontakt zu Technologie erfragen.",{"text":44765,"start":718,"end":780},"Kannst Du dich daran erinnern, wann so deine ersten Kontaktpunkte zu Technik waren und wer das vielleicht begünstigt hat?",{"sentences":44767,"speaker":514,"num_words":44733,"start":783,"end":869},[44768,44770,44772,44774,44776],{"text":44769,"start":783,"end":795},"Ja, kann ich versuchen.",{"text":44771,"start":795,"end":822},"Ich bin schon 'n bisschen älter, von daher.",{"text":44773,"start":827,"end":837},"Ah ja, ja.",{"text":44775,"start":837,"end":859},"Technologie meinst Du wahrscheinlich Computertechnologie, oder?",{"text":44777,"start":864,"end":869},"Genau, ja.",{"sentences":44779,"speaker":143,"num_words":44782,"start":872,"end":931},[44780],{"text":44781,"start":872,"end":931},"Es kann ja auch 'n anderer Einstieg gewesen sein, je nachdem, was sich 'n bisschen in die Karriere gebracht hat.",20,{"sentences":44784,"speaker":514,"num_words":44794,"start":934,"end":1195},[44785,44786,44788,44790,44792],{"text":938,"start":934,"end":935},{"text":44787,"start":941,"end":1035},"Also ich glaube, so mein mein Hintergrund war immer von relativ jungen Jahren Technik, aber jetzt nicht unbedingt Software, weil gab's da teilweise noch nicht, als ich noch kleiner war.",{"text":44789,"start":1038,"end":1077},"Aber ich war mal sehr, sehr interessiert daran zu verstehen, wie Dinge funktionieren.",{"text":44791,"start":1081,"end":1163},"Es hat angefangen als Kind, dass ich mein Spielzeug auseinander gebaut hab, bis es nicht mehr benutzbar war, Hab dann an Motorrädern rumgeschraubt und so weiter.",{"text":44793,"start":1163,"end":1195},"Und ich hab auch 'n Bruder, der ist älter, 6 Jahre.",81,{"sentences":44796,"speaker":514,"num_words":44807,"start":1198,"end":1368},[44797,44799,44801,44803,44805],{"text":44798,"start":1198,"end":1240},"Und der war eigentlich relativ so ab Teenageralter, auch an Computer interessiert, ne.",{"text":44800,"start":1240,"end":1267},"Also einfach Problem mehr sparen und so weiter.",{"text":44802,"start":1269,"end":1330},"Da gab's ja, wie gesagt, noch keine Desktopcomputer zu dem Zeitpunkt oder konnten wir uns 'n bisschen nicht leisten, ne.",{"text":44804,"start":1330,"end":1355},"Gab's noch 4 86 und so was und Commodorus.",{"text":44806,"start":1360,"end":1368},"Hatten wir dann auch.",54,{"sentences":44809,"speaker":514,"num_words":44820,"start":1371,"end":1611},[44810,44812,44814,44816,44818],{"text":44811,"start":1371,"end":1415},"Und er war aber immerhin der so der der Nerd vor allem von uns beiden.",{"text":44813,"start":1419,"end":1464},"Und ich war immer 'n bisschen, hab zugeschaut, da bin ich mir nicht aktiv mitgemacht.",{"text":44815,"start":1467,"end":1540},"Und eigentlich so richtig in meinen eigenen Computer hab ich mir gekauft extrem im Studium erst mit, als ich, genau, nach Schulabschluss Studium angefangen.",{"text":44817,"start":1543,"end":1591},"Da hab ich dann immer mal im Sommerurlaub gejobbt und hab mir dann meinen ersten Laptop gekauft.",{"text":44819,"start":1595,"end":1611},"Ich glaube, auch in 4 Sechsundachtziger.",77,{"sentences":44822,"speaker":514,"num_words":44830,"start":1616,"end":1719},[44823,44824,44826,44828],{"text":1618,"start":1616,"end":1617},{"text":44825,"start":1617,"end":1626},"Wahnsinnig teuer.",{"text":44827,"start":1629,"end":1666},"Und das war so mein erster Kontaktpunkt eigentlich mit Computer und Software direkt selber.",{"text":44829,"start":1666,"end":1719},"Vorher war's eigentlich eher mein Bruder, 'n bisschen rumgespielt, aber ja, eigentlich sonst nicht aktiv probiert oder",34,{"sentences":44832,"speaker":143,"num_words":514,"start":1719,"end":1726},[44833,44834],{"text":1723,"start":1719,"end":1721},{"text":1728,"start":1721,"end":1726},{"sentences":44836,"speaker":514,"num_words":44807,"start":1726,"end":1899},[44837,44839,44840,44842,44844],{"text":44838,"start":1726,"end":1782},"Also eigentlich relativ spät, vielleicht wahrscheinlich heute, nur die meisten schon als Teenager oder so einsteigen, ja.",{"text":1787,"start":1784,"end":1785},{"text":44841,"start":1789,"end":1820},"Und das war dann auch mehr aus so aus Eigennutz, ne.",{"text":44843,"start":1820,"end":1856},"Computer genutzt fürs Studium, Schreiben und so weiter, 'n bisschen programmiert.",{"text":44845,"start":1860,"end":1899},"Und dann aber halt auch im Studium natürlich dann in in die Programmierung eingestiegen.",{"sentences":44847,"speaker":514,"num_words":514,"start":1902,"end":1906},[44848,44849],{"text":1618,"start":1902,"end":1903},{"text":1787,"start":1903,"end":1906},{"sentences":44851,"speaker":122,"num_words":44854,"start":1909,"end":1923},[44852],{"text":44853,"start":1909,"end":1923},"Und studiert hast Du dann was?",6,{"sentences":44856,"speaker":514,"num_words":44866,"start":1926,"end":2052},[44857,44859,44861,44862,44864],{"text":44858,"start":1926,"end":1948},"Ja, ist ja auch eine interessante Story.",{"text":44860,"start":1951,"end":1971},"Ich hab erst Physik studiert für ein Jahr.",{"text":1618,"start":1971,"end":1975},{"text":44863,"start":1975,"end":2039},"Und also ich muss dazu sagen, ich hab vom Schulsystem, ich hab ein Fachabitur gemacht, hab, wie nannte sich das?",{"text":44865,"start":2044,"end":2052},"Kommunikationselektroniker gelernt.",38,{"sentences":44868,"speaker":514,"num_words":44879,"start":2052,"end":2293},[44869,44871,44873,44875,44877],{"text":44870,"start":2052,"end":2084},"Also ich hab da auch programmiert, Assembler und solche Geschichten.",{"text":44872,"start":2084,"end":2109},"Hat so Chips programmiert, 80 irgendwas Chips.",{"text":44874,"start":2112,"end":2127},"Schon sehr, sehr lange her.",{"text":44876,"start":2131,"end":2258},"Hab da nach dem Fachabitur wollt ich studieren, aber im deutschen System kannst Du halt nicht mit Fach mit Fachabitur an eine Universität gehen, sondern ich musste an eine, es gab es damals noch, gibt es heute nicht mehr eine Gesamthochschule.",{"text":44878,"start":2262,"end":2293},"Da sind also Universitäten, die auch Leute akzeptieren mit Fachabitur.",73,{"sentences":44881,"speaker":514,"num_words":44892,"start":2297,"end":2570},[44882,44884,44886,44888,44890],{"text":44883,"start":2297,"end":2317},"Und das war in dem Fall die Universität Paderborn.",{"text":44885,"start":2321,"end":2387},"Und da konnt ich dann über sogenannte Brückenkurse in das normale Universitätsstudium einsteigen, sonst hätt ich nur auf die Fachhochschule gehen können.",{"text":44887,"start":2391,"end":2405},"Das war also ganz interessant.",{"text":44889,"start":2405,"end":2500},"Und dann hab ich im Fachabitur, war ich so schlecht in Mathe, dass mein Mathelehrer mir gesagt hat, Herr Dormon, Sie werden es nie schaffen im Studium, weil Sie in Mathe so schlecht sind.",{"text":44891,"start":2500,"end":2570},"Und das haben wir mich da angesprochen, zu sagen, okay, ich studier jetzt Physik, weil schlimmer kann's nicht werden, so nach dem Motto.",93,{"sentences":44894,"speaker":514,"num_words":44905,"start":2573,"end":2711},[44895,44897,44899,44901,44903],{"text":44896,"start":2573,"end":2607},"Und hab dann ein Jahr Physik studiert und hab mich dann durch Mathe durchgekämpft.",{"text":44898,"start":2612,"end":2619},"Hab's auch geschafft.",{"text":44900,"start":2619,"end":2652},"Und das war dann 'n bisschen so für das eigene Ego selbstbeschündige.",{"text":44902,"start":2656,"end":2693},"Und hab dann aber festgestellt, eigentlich hab ich das erreicht, was ich erreichen wollte.",{"text":44904,"start":2693,"end":2711},"Ich hab den Mathekurs bestanden.",48,{"sentences":44907,"speaker":514,"num_words":44918,"start":2715,"end":2877},[44908,44910,44912,44914,44916],{"text":44909,"start":2715,"end":2751},"Jetzt kann ich eigentlich 'n 'n 'n Weg gehen, der mir wahrscheinlich mehr liegt.",{"text":44911,"start":2751,"end":2781},"Und das war dann Wirtschaftsingenieur, also Elektrotechnik und BWL.",{"text":44913,"start":2781,"end":2789},"Ja, genau.",{"text":44915,"start":2789,"end":2817},"Und hat das dann halt zu Ende geführt, ja.",{"text":44917,"start":2819,"end":2877},"Also 'n bisschen lange Story, aber zeigt, glaub ich, son bisschen so mein mein Charakter, dass ich dann sehr angesprochen bin.",55,{"sentences":44920,"speaker":514,"num_words":178,"start":2881,"end":2912},[44921],{"text":44922,"start":2881,"end":2912},"Und wollte mir sagen, dass ich dass ich nicht erfolgreich sein werde.",{"sentences":44924,"speaker":122,"num_words":44927,"start":2912,"end":2962},[44925],{"text":44926,"start":2912,"end":2962},"Bin ich mal gespannt, ob das sich gleich im weiteren Werdegang noch wiederholt in der Story, aber ja",18,{"sentences":44929,"speaker":514,"num_words":44932,"start":2964,"end":2972},[44930],{"text":44931,"start":2964,"end":2972},"Kann sein, ja.",3,{"sentences":44934,"speaker":122,"num_words":44941,"start":2975,"end":3108},[44935,44937,44939],{"text":44936,"start":2975,"end":2990},"Sehr, sehr interessant auf jeden Fall.",{"text":44938,"start":2990,"end":3070},"Wie wenn Du jetzt sagst, okay, dann danach das Studium ja eigentlich auch noch trotzdem jetzt nicht die Informatik- und Softwareentwicklung so, wie ist denn dein Weg weitergegangen?",{"text":44940,"start":3074,"end":3108},"So wie wann wann war der beruflich oder professionell erste Kontakt mit Softwareentwicklung?",47,{"sentences":44943,"speaker":514,"num_words":44750,"start":3112,"end":3293},[44944,44945,44947,44949,44951],{"text":938,"start":3112,"end":3113},{"text":44946,"start":3117,"end":3156},"Also im Studium haben wir, ich hab jetzt nicht Informatik direkt studiert, aber Wirtschaftsingenieur und Elektrotechnik.",{"text":44948,"start":3156,"end":3204},"Und da ist ja dann auch schon 'n starken Bezug zu Softwareentwicklung in den Elektrotechnik.",{"text":44950,"start":3204,"end":3244},"Und das hat dann auch schon 'n starken Bezug zu Softwareentwicklung in den in den Studiengängen.",{"text":44952,"start":3247,"end":3293},"Und ich hab mich spezialisiert auf den Bereich Operations Control, also Optimierungsprobleme und solche Geschichten.",{"sentences":44954,"speaker":514,"num_words":44963,"start":3293,"end":3436},[44955,44957,44959,44961],{"text":44956,"start":3293,"end":3332},"Und da dann auch im Studium programmiert in dem Bereich und pünktlich 'n Elektrotechnik Studium war.",{"text":44958,"start":3332,"end":3348},"Ich hab aber relativ wenig Elektrotechnik gemacht.",{"text":44960,"start":3351,"end":3387},"Und dann war halt nach dem Studium die Frage, hey, was mach ich jetzt?",{"text":44962,"start":3391,"end":3436},"Das war 2009 2000 grade so Internetboom, also war da noch, ist grade Kurz",51,{"sentences":44965,"speaker":122,"num_words":44932,"start":3436,"end":3445},[44966],{"text":44967,"start":3436,"end":3445},"vor der Blase?",{"sentences":44969,"speaker":514,"num_words":44979,"start":3448,"end":3730},[44970,44972,44974,44975,44977],{"text":44971,"start":3448,"end":3482},"Genau, die Blase ist genau dann geplatzt, als ich angefangen hab, mein Beruf.",{"text":44973,"start":3482,"end":3539},"Er war halt vorher mich beworben, auch schon 'n halbes Jahr vor Studiumende 'n Vertrag in der Tasche gehabt.",{"text":1618,"start":3539,"end":3542},{"text":44976,"start":3545,"end":3688},"Und da war die Frau aus Maich, wollte da lieber was Richtung Softwareentwicklung machen, hat da halt mit Rangebots und bin halt in der Beratung gelandet bei Accenture, genau gesagt, Accenture Technology Consulting damals, die halt primär Großprojekte durchgeführt haben, ne.",{"text":44978,"start":3688,"end":3730},"Also wie 100 plus Leute Projekte bei speziell Corpels und so weiter.",86,{"sentences":44981,"speaker":514,"num_words":44991,"start":3732,"end":3881},[44982,44984,44985,44987,44989],{"text":44983,"start":3732,"end":3760},"Und das war dann halt mein Einstieg, professioneller Einstieg in die Softwareentwicklung.",{"text":1787,"start":3764,"end":3765},{"text":44986,"start":3765,"end":3824},"Das erste Projekt war dann bei der Deutschen Bahn das Mainframensystem, was damals noch verwendet wurde, Tickets zu buchen.",{"text":44988,"start":3828,"end":3855},"Das haben wir abgelöst mit 'ner Java- und webbasierten Lösung.",{"text":44990,"start":3855,"end":3881},"Das war aber genau 2000, als die Blase geplatzt ist.",52,{"sentences":44993,"speaker":514,"num_words":45003,"start":3881,"end":4033},[44994,44996,44998,45000,45002],{"text":44995,"start":3881,"end":3906},"Also die Blase ist 'n halbes Jahr voll ungefähr geplatzt.",{"text":44997,"start":3909,"end":3952},"Ich hatte aber Glück, dass ich halt schon 'n Vertrag hatte und dann auch den Vertrag behalten hab.",{"text":44999,"start":3956,"end":3985},"Und dann auch da direkt 'n Projekt gefunden hab bei der Deutschen Bahn.",{"text":45001,"start":3985,"end":4028},"Und dadurch hatt ich, glaub ich, relativ viel Glück im im Start meiner Kehre.",{"text":938,"start":4032,"end":4033},56,{"sentences":45005,"speaker":143,"num_words":45008,"start":4036,"end":4087},[45006],{"text":45007,"start":4036,"end":4087},"Und das heißt, Du hast eher aus Interesse studiert oder hattest Du irgendwas im Kopf, was Du danach gerne machen würdest?",21,{"sentences":45010,"speaker":514,"num_words":45020,"start":4090,"end":4223},[45011,45013,45015,45016,45018],{"text":45012,"start":4090,"end":4131},"So richtig Plan hätt ich nicht, was ich beruflich machen wollt am Anfang vom Studium.",{"text":45014,"start":4135,"end":4167},"Aber ich hab halt immer Interesse für Technik gehabt, Ingenieurwesen oder halt Softwareentwicklung.",{"text":1618,"start":4169,"end":4170},{"text":45017,"start":4170,"end":4191},"Und im Studium hat sich das dann so entwickelt.",{"text":45019,"start":4191,"end":4223},"Also ich hab im Studium im Grunde genommen meinen meinen Weg gefunden.",50,{"sentences":45022,"speaker":514,"num_words":45027,"start":4223,"end":4331},[45023,45025],{"text":45024,"start":4223,"end":4282},"Ich hab auch im Studium nebenbei gearbeitet, Verschiedene Jobs bei verschiedenen Firmen, aber auch immer Richtung Consulting oder Softwareentwicklung.",{"text":45026,"start":4285,"end":4331},"Und dadurch hat sich das dann ergeben, dass ich dann nachm Studium einigermaßen wusste, was ich machen wollte.",37,{"sentences":45029,"speaker":122,"num_words":122,"start":4333,"end":4334},[45030],{"text":1618,"start":4333,"end":4334},{"sentences":45032,"speaker":514,"num_words":122,"start":4334,"end":4337},[45033],{"text":938,"start":4334,"end":4337},{"sentences":45035,"speaker":143,"num_words":45044,"start":4340,"end":4519},[45036,45038,45040,45042],{"text":45037,"start":4340,"end":4412},"Wie siehst Du das, wenn Du dann als Consultant eingestiegen bist und ja eigentlich dann so ab Minute 1 irgendwo beratend bist oder unterstützend irgendwo in Teams?",{"text":45039,"start":4412,"end":4464},"Wie hat da so die, also zum Ersten, wie hat sich's angefühlt, wo dein Wissensstand damals war?",{"text":45041,"start":4467,"end":4494},"Und wie funktioniert in dem Kontext so dann die Weiterbildung?",{"text":45043,"start":4498,"end":4519},"Also wie wo hast Du da gelernt in der Zeit?",64,{"sentences":45046,"speaker":514,"num_words":45057,"start":4522,"end":4837},[45047,45049,45051,45053,45055],{"text":45048,"start":4522,"end":4541},"Ja, also ein klassisches Beratungsgeschäft, ne.",{"text":45050,"start":4541,"end":4595},"Du kommst von der Uni und bist dann, damals hieß das, glaub ich, Analyst bei Extension Show.",{"text":45052,"start":4595,"end":4697},"Das das unterste Level und bist halt der Mega Junior, der irgendwo in der Ecke sitzt und dann halt relativ genau 'n Scope bekommt, was das Thema angeht, was was umgesetzt werden muss.",{"text":45054,"start":4700,"end":4810},"Ich hatte mal relativ viel Glück in meinen Excenture Projekten oder grade am Anfang, dass ich halt gute Manager hatte, die mich da gecoacht haben und auch mir Aufgaben gegeben haben, die halt jetzt entsprechend meinem Skill Set sind.",{"text":45056,"start":4813,"end":4837},"Und hab mich da halt im Job weiterentwickelt, ne.",104,{"sentences":45059,"speaker":514,"num_words":45069,"start":4837,"end":5043},[45060,45062,45064,45066,45068],{"text":45061,"start":4837,"end":4870},"Klassisch Beratung, größere Aufgaben bekommen, größere Challenges und so weiter.",{"text":45063,"start":4872,"end":4909},"Und da aber auch relativ schnell in die in die Personalverantwortung, zumindest auf Projektebene.",{"text":45065,"start":4913,"end":4973},"Also ich hab dann alle Teams relativ schnell geleitet und ja, haben mich da halt weiterentwickelt in der Richtung Richtung Leadership Position.",{"text":45067,"start":4978,"end":5038},"Technische beide Entwicklung war ganz klar aufm Projekt programmiert, ne, und dann halt da einfach den Skript ausgebaut, Komplexität ausgebaut.",{"text":1787,"start":5042,"end":5043},67,{"sentences":45071,"speaker":514,"num_words":45074,"start":5043,"end":5082},[45072],{"text":45073,"start":5043,"end":5082},"Und dann einfach vom Kollegen gelernt, also Mitarbeitern, die angecoacht haben und so weiter.",14,{"sentences":45076,"speaker":122,"num_words":45087,"start":5084,"end":5348},[45077,45079,45081,45083,45085],{"text":45078,"start":5084,"end":5090},"Ja, cool.",{"text":45080,"start":5090,"end":5235},"Und danach, wenn man mal auf deinen Werdegang schaut, danach kamen ja eigentlich dann ausschließlich Stationen bei Firmen, die im Endeffekt ein digitales Produkt irgendwie vertreiben oder dass das ihr Produkt ist sozusagen, was Und auch alles Namen, die man ja irgendwie kennt, so der nächste Step war ja dann hier, also die Ja.",{"text":45082,"start":5238,"end":5252},"Der Maps Anbieter so.",{"text":45084,"start":5252,"end":5293},"Kannst Du uns 'n bisschen dazu erzählen, wie wie diese Entwicklung dahin zu hier kam?",{"text":45086,"start":5293,"end":5348},"War das irgendwie eine bewusste Entscheidung weg von Beratung hin zu hier und erzähl uns mal gerne, was Du da gemacht hast.",97,{"sentences":45089,"speaker":514,"num_words":45100,"start":5351,"end":5576},[45090,45092,45094,45096,45098],{"text":45091,"start":5351,"end":5404},"Ja, also ich war 7 7 oder fast 8 Jahre dann bei Xent Show, also 7 Mal Bär ungefähr.",{"text":45093,"start":5408,"end":5420},"Was superspannend vor, ne.",{"text":45095,"start":5420,"end":5475},"Also was dir die persönliche Entwicklung angeht, glaub ich, wenn ich jetzt zurückschaue, meine Kehre so, die steilste Entwicklung.",{"text":45097,"start":5475,"end":5524},"Und weshalb liegt auch daran, dass ich da halt vom Junior eingestiegen bin und dann halt Richtung Manager mich entwickelt hab.",{"text":45099,"start":5528,"end":5576},"Vorteil halt, dass man halt verschiedene Projekte sieht, ne, und und verschiedene Kunden sieht, neue Challenges hat und so weiter.",83,{"sentences":45102,"speaker":514,"num_words":45113,"start":5578,"end":5712},[45103,45105,45107,45109,45111],{"text":45104,"start":5578,"end":5594},"Und das alles relativ groß, ne.",{"text":45106,"start":5594,"end":5630},"Sie haben halt Deutsche Bahn gemacht, DHL, Otto und solche Geschichten, ne.",{"text":45108,"start":5630,"end":5653},"Sieht man halt schon so Large Skill Softwareentwicklung.",{"text":45110,"start":5653,"end":5662},"Wie funktioniert das, ne?",{"text":45112,"start":5662,"end":5712},"Also mit 150 Leuten irgendwie 'n ERP System ablösen oder solche Geschichten über Custom Entwicklungen.",45,{"sentences":45115,"speaker":514,"num_words":45126,"start":5716,"end":5957},[45116,45118,45120,45122,45124],{"text":45117,"start":5716,"end":5739},"Weil schon krass, was man da lernt, ne.",{"text":45119,"start":5742,"end":5782},"Nicht nur reine Softwareentwicklung, aber auch das ganze Projektmanagement, Projektmanagement drum herum.",{"text":45121,"start":5785,"end":5871},"Und dass ich halt 7, 8 Tage gemacht hab, bin dann irgendwann leichte, ja, diese leichte persönliche Krise, weil ich halt eigentlich immer von Montag bis Freitag unterwegs war.",{"text":45123,"start":5871,"end":5922},"Also ich hatte am Anfang hab ich in Hamburg gewohnt, hatte das Projekt bei der Bahn in Frankfurt 2 Jahre.",{"text":45125,"start":5922,"end":5957},"Bin dann nach Frankfurt gezogen, hab ich gesagt, ich will nicht mehr reisen.",82,{"sentences":45128,"speaker":514,"num_words":44750,"start":5960,"end":6144},[45129,45131,45133,45135,45137],{"text":45130,"start":5960,"end":6015},"Dann war das Projekt auch vorbei, nämlich, da hab ich in Frankfurt gewohnt, bin nach Prag gereist, die Woche.",{"text":45132,"start":6019,"end":6037},"Und das ging halt 7, 8 Jahre so.",{"text":45134,"start":6037,"end":6064},"Und bei Accenture hast Du halt entweder Hotel- oder Projektwohnung.",{"text":45136,"start":6068,"end":6127},"Und irgendwann hab ich halt in den Projektwohnungen gesessen und hab gedacht so, ey, kannst Du nicht jetzt das so weitermachen?",{"text":45138,"start":6127,"end":6144},"Ist ja kein Leben, ne.",{"sentences":45140,"speaker":514,"num_words":45151,"start":6144,"end":6303},[45141,45143,45145,45147,45149],{"text":45142,"start":6144,"end":6183},"Also sitzt in der Wohnung und da hängen Bilder von anderen Leuten an der Wand.",{"text":45144,"start":6183,"end":6202},"Also ich glaub deine eigenen Bilder.",{"text":45146,"start":6205,"end":6225},"Ich hab auch gar keine Wohnung mehr gehabt irgendwann.",{"text":45148,"start":6225,"end":6278},"Ich ich hab meinen meine Mietwohnung aufgegeben damals, weil ich Projektwohnungen hatte und hatte nur noch so 5 Kisten.",{"text":45150,"start":6278,"end":6303},"Das war so mein Einkommen, der Rest war Projektwohnung.",58,{"sentences":45153,"speaker":514,"num_words":45164,"start":6307,"end":6570},[45154,45156,45158,45160,45162],{"text":45155,"start":6307,"end":6370},"Und da hab ich dann irgendwann gesagt, ey, das das das will ich so nicht mehr machen in dieser Reiserei und ständig Hotel oder Projektwohnung.",{"text":45157,"start":6373,"end":6406},"Und das war eigentlich der Grund, warum ich gesagt hab, ich will weg.",{"text":45159,"start":6406,"end":6445},"Und der andere Grund war halt, bei Consulting machst Du halt immer projektbasierte Arbeit.",{"text":45161,"start":6445,"end":6509},"Das heißt, Du bringst das zum gewissen Grade, aber wenn wenn's eventuell spannend wird oder wenn, Du bringst es nie so richtig zu Ende, ne.",{"text":45163,"start":6509,"end":6570},"Das heißt, Du steigst immer aus, wenn's bevor es eigentlich beendet wurde, weil dann meistens der Kunde dann übernimmt und so weiter.",99,{"sentences":45166,"speaker":514,"num_words":45100,"start":6572,"end":6810},[45167,45169,45171,45173],{"text":45168,"start":6572,"end":6630},"Und irgendwann wollt ich das auch mal irgendwie weniger projektbasiert, sondern mehr produktbasiert arbeiten, ne, wirklich 'n Produkt Ownership übernehmen.",{"text":45170,"start":6633,"end":6704},"Und bin dann halt, wie gesagt, weg von 'nem Consulting und Richtung, da hat sich dann einen einen Job ergeben bei hier, der recht spannend war als Architekt.",{"text":45172,"start":6708,"end":6740},"Am ersten Tag, wo ich gestartet bin, gab's den Job aber nicht mehr.",{"text":45174,"start":6744,"end":6810},"Da wurd ich dann eine neue Rolle angeboten, weil die sich umorganisiert haben innerhalb der 3 Monate zwischen Kündigung und und Neuanfang.",{"sentences":45176,"speaker":122,"num_words":45069,"start":6814,"end":6981},[45177,45179,45181,45183],{"text":45178,"start":6814,"end":6850},"Kannst Du vielleicht kurz dazu 'n bisschen Kontext geben, wo was hier zu dem Zeitpunkt war?",{"text":45180,"start":6850,"end":6930},"Also ich hab, glaub ich, das erste Mal Kontakt mit dem Maps Produkt hatte ich jetzt 2 13, das war die Zeit dazu, dann schon wieder grade kurz davor was wegzugehen.",{"text":45182,"start":6934,"end":6978},"Also wie wie kann man sich vorstellen, was was war hier zu dem Zeitpunkt, wo Du da angefangen hast?",{"text":938,"start":6978,"end":6981},{"sentences":45185,"speaker":514,"num_words":45195,"start":6984,"end":7188},[45186,45188,45190,45191,45193],{"text":45187,"start":6984,"end":7044},"Also hier war noch wirklich, kann man sagen, was Company und Kultur angeht, nur noch Denkweise mehr Nokia Gate Five.",{"text":45189,"start":7048,"end":7070},"Gate Five, weil die Company damals gekauft wurde von Nokia.",{"text":1618,"start":7070,"end":7073},{"text":45192,"start":7076,"end":7137},"Also 'n kleines Team in Berlin, ich glaub, es haben sie 200 Leute oder so was, die verschiedene Produkte gebohrt haben, ne.",{"text":45194,"start":7137,"end":7188},"Sagen wir die webbasierte Version, dann noch die App mit relativ starker Verbindung zu Nuklear.",68,{"sentences":45197,"speaker":514,"num_words":44830,"start":7192,"end":7300},[45198,45200,45201,45203,45205],{"text":45199,"start":7192,"end":7215},"Also eigentlich war Nuklear denen ihre Plattform, Hauptplattform.",{"text":1618,"start":7219,"end":7220},{"text":45202,"start":7222,"end":7254},"Und als ich da war, also sehr produktfokussierte Company, auch über das Leadership.",{"text":45204,"start":7258,"end":7281},"Michael Halbherr damals noch und Christoph Helmes.",{"text":45206,"start":7285,"end":7300},"Sehr, sehr produktfokussisierte visionäre Menschen.",{"sentences":45208,"speaker":514,"num_words":44807,"start":7305,"end":7467},[45209,45211,45213,45215,45217],{"text":45210,"start":7305,"end":7310},"Superviel gelernt.",{"text":45212,"start":7312,"end":7374},"So wurde auch relativ schnell klar, dass diese Abhängigkeit zu Symbian, als US und als einzige Plattform wahrscheinlich nicht sehr zukunftsträchtig ist, ne.",{"text":45214,"start":7377,"end":7393},"Sie vielleicht, okay, was können wir machen?",{"text":45216,"start":7393,"end":7418},"Wir haben eigentlich 'n Riesenasset an der Hand.",{"text":45218,"start":7423,"end":7467},"Witzigweise hat dann Nokia Geld five gekauft, was irgendwie 'n 7 Billionen Deal war.",{"sentences":45220,"speaker":514,"num_words":44854,"start":7467,"end":7487},[45221,45222],{"text":1618,"start":7467,"end":7469},{"text":45223,"start":7471,"end":7487},"Also David, Kohliat und so.",{"sentences":45225,"speaker":122,"num_words":514,"start":7489,"end":7493},[45226],{"text":45227,"start":7489,"end":7493},"Und wir",{"sentences":45229,"speaker":514,"num_words":45164,"start":7493,"end":7768},[45230,45232,45234,45236,45238],{"text":45231,"start":7493,"end":7508},"haben halt als Asset gehabt.",{"text":45233,"start":7508,"end":7596},"Und haben überlegt so, okay, ist ja eigentlich 'n 'n super Asset und das jetzt nur auf 'nem auf 'ner Plattform zu betreiben, die halt wahrscheinlich eher die kleinen Userzahlen hat, macht wenig Sinn.",{"text":45235,"start":7596,"end":7615},"Was können wir mit dem Produkt abmachen?",{"text":45237,"start":7618,"end":7728},"Und das war ja so grade der Umbruch, ne, dass man gesagt hat, hey, wollen wir nicht eine Plattform anbieten mit APIs, die man extra nutzen kann, ja, für Geocording, Reverse Geocording, Map Branding und so weiter.",{"text":45239,"start":7730,"end":7768},"Und das war grade, das war nicht meine Rolle als Architekt diese APIs mit zu definieren.",{"sentences":45241,"speaker":514,"num_words":45251,"start":7771,"end":7957},[45242,45244,45246,45248,45250],{"text":45243,"start":7771,"end":7850},"Und dann, genau, an dem Zeitpunkt war's aber so, dass es 'n ersten Deal gab mit Yahoo damals, die ausgestiegen sind aus diesem ganzen Map Business, weil das relativ investmentheavy ist.",{"text":45245,"start":7853,"end":7873},"Und gesagt haben, okay, wir machen Deal genug, ja.",{"text":45247,"start":7876,"end":7916},"Die bauen uns die Plattform und wir machen halt sozusagen User Interface on top.",{"text":45249,"start":7919,"end":7953},"Und das war dann auch mein erste meine erste Rolle, diese Plattform mit aufzubauen als Produkt.",{"text":1618,"start":7953,"end":7957},71,{"sentences":45253,"speaker":514,"num_words":45264,"start":7957,"end":8136},[45254,45256,45258,45260,45262],{"text":45255,"start":7957,"end":7981},"Ne, also wir hatten dann verschiedene Assets in Nuklear.",{"text":45257,"start":7981,"end":8020},"Es gab 'n Team, die haben Geocoling gemacht, dann gab's 'n Morting Team.",{"text":45259,"start":8025,"end":8036},"Bisher alles für Simpian.",{"text":45261,"start":8040,"end":8123},"Und jetzt ging's darum, da eine Set und APIs draufzusetzen, als Plattform zu verpacken und halt zu skalieren für so was wie 'n Yahoo, die halt doch relativ hohe Userzahlen hatten.",{"text":45263,"start":8126,"end":8136},"Genau, das war eine Rolle.",62,{"sentences":45266,"speaker":514,"num_words":44918,"start":8136,"end":8300},[45267,45269],{"text":45268,"start":8136,"end":8213},"Und das war also wirklich 'n Mischmasch aus Produktmanagement, Engineering Management, Architektur, Programmmanagement, also recht wild, was zu den Score angeht, der wolle.",{"text":45270,"start":8216,"end":8300},"Aber superspannend, weil man halt mit mit diesen Kunden sozusagen mal, ja, mit natürlich 'n Yahoo und und dann nachher anderen Kunden auch Und da diese Plattform wirklich ausm Boden gehoben hatten.",{"sentences":45272,"speaker":122,"num_words":44866,"start":8300,"end":8409},[45273],{"text":45274,"start":8300,"end":8409},"Und find ich ganz interessant, diese, das heißt aber, Kunden waren dann wirklich in erster Linie so was wie Yahoo Maps oder jemand, der wirklich ein Kartenprodukt gebaut hat und ihr wart das Background für dieses Kartenprodukt so.",{"sentences":45276,"speaker":514,"num_words":122,"start":8409,"end":8412},[45277],{"text":1787,"start":8409,"end":8412},{"sentences":45279,"speaker":122,"num_words":44866,"start":8412,"end":8514},[45280],{"text":45281,"start":8412,"end":8514},"Gibt's da also so, gibt's da so viele, die auch sich auf son anderes Back bauen verlassen für, also was was für Kunden sind sind das noch, die Maps bauen und dann irgendwie sone API von hier benutzen?",{"sentences":45283,"speaker":514,"num_words":45003,"start":8518,"end":8666},[45284,45286,45288,45290,45292],{"text":45285,"start":8518,"end":8539},"Bing Maps zum Beispiel, das war der nächste Kunde.",{"text":45287,"start":8543,"end":8596},"Die hatten das bisher selber gemacht, hatten auch relativ viel investiert, hatten auch Assets aufgebaut, wie zum Beispiel und so weiter.",{"text":45289,"start":8599,"end":8631},"Haben aber auch immer entschieden, okay, das ist nicht unser Core Business.",{"text":45291,"start":8631,"end":8662},"Das macht keinen Sinn, so viel Geld zu investieren in eine Map Plattform.",{"text":1618,"start":8662,"end":8666},{"sentences":45294,"speaker":514,"num_words":45305,"start":8669,"end":8781},[45295,45297,45299,45301,45303],{"text":45296,"start":8669,"end":8683},"Lass uns mit mit machen oder.",{"text":45298,"start":8687,"end":8703},"Eigentlich hast Du ja nur 2 Accountanbieter.",{"text":45300,"start":8707,"end":8725},"Und TomTom, was die Daten angeht.",{"text":45302,"start":8728,"end":8757},"Und dann hast Du halt wenige, die eine Mapplattform bauen, ne.",{"text":45304,"start":8757,"end":8781},"Da ist Google Maps und 'n hier Maps, ne.",39,{"sentences":45307,"speaker":514,"num_words":45310,"start":8781,"end":8809},[45308],{"text":45309,"start":8781,"end":8809},"In dem scale hast Du auch so und so weiter.",10,{"sentences":45312,"speaker":122,"num_words":45319,"start":8809,"end":8893},[45313,45315,45317],{"text":45314,"start":8809,"end":8829},"Aber ist das wollen wir auch erkannt.",{"text":45316,"start":8829,"end":8888},"Ist Google Maps, das heißt, das die Karten, die auf denen Google Maps basiert, die das kümmert sich auch Google nicht selbst rum.",{"text":45318,"start":8888,"end":8893},"Ist das",32,{"sentences":45321,"speaker":514,"num_words":45329,"start":8895,"end":8971},[45322,45323,45324,45326,45328],{"text":8899,"start":8895,"end":8896},{"text":1618,"start":8901,"end":8902},{"text":45325,"start":8902,"end":8952},"Also Google, wenn Du unten schaust, ich weiß nicht, ob das jetzt noch so ist, damals war das so.",{"text":45327,"start":8955,"end":8966},"Die zeigen wir noch an.",{"text":8973,"start":8970,"end":8971},27,{"sentences":45331,"speaker":122,"num_words":45335,"start":8975,"end":8991},[45332,45333],{"text":1618,"start":8975,"end":8976},{"text":45334,"start":8976,"end":8991},"Diese Doku, glaub ich.",5,{"sentences":45337,"speaker":514,"num_words":45347,"start":8994,"end":9097},[45338,45339,45341,45343,45345],{"text":44913,"start":8994,"end":8999},{"text":45340,"start":8999,"end":9014},"Das steht in den in den.",{"text":45342,"start":9018,"end":9037},"Aber natürlich mittlerweile machen die auch viel selber, ne.",{"text":45344,"start":9037,"end":9058},"Also haben viel der Daten und so weiter.",{"text":45346,"start":9058,"end":9097},"Das heißt, die haben dann Overlays, ne, wo sie dann die reine Daten teilweise mit reinbringen.",41,{"sentences":45349,"speaker":514,"num_words":44963,"start":9100,"end":9239},[45350,45352,45354,45356,45358],{"text":45351,"start":9100,"end":9143},"Aber damals war das noch Copyright der Kartendaten, weil das Erstellen der Kartendaten ist halt megeintensiv.",{"text":45353,"start":9147,"end":9171},"Mittlerweile hat Google ja auch Streetmaps und so weiter.",{"text":45355,"start":9171,"end":9202},"Das heißt, die haben da auch aufgebaut und machen das größtenteils jetzt selber wahrscheinlich.",{"text":45357,"start":9205,"end":9236},"Nicht nur die die Streetmaps, sondern auch die wirkliche Kartografie dahinter.",{"text":1618,"start":9236,"end":9239},{"sentences":45360,"speaker":514,"num_words":45319,"start":9239,"end":9325},[45361,45363],{"text":45362,"start":9239,"end":9268},"Aber damals haben die das von Nerfack eingekauft und von TomTom.",{"text":45364,"start":9271,"end":9325},"Nerfack ist halt stark in den USA und TomTom ist halt stark in Europa und die haben das halt kombiniert, ne.",{"sentences":45366,"speaker":122,"num_words":44905,"start":9327,"end":9455},[45367,45368,45370],{"text":938,"start":9327,"end":9328},{"text":45369,"start":9328,"end":9414},"Aber das find ich ganz interessant, weil ich hab mir schon irgendwie 'n paar Mal gefragt, mich wundert, dass dann so viele auch so, also wie Apple Karten und so was.",{"text":45371,"start":9414,"end":9455},"Mir war gar nicht bewusst, dass dieses die Karten dann doch von 'nem anderen Anbieter holen",{"sentences":45373,"speaker":514,"num_words":514,"start":9455,"end":9462},[45374],{"text":45375,"start":9455,"end":9462},"mich Ja.",{"sentences":45377,"speaker":122,"num_words":45382,"start":9464,"end":9554},[45378,45380],{"text":45379,"start":9464,"end":9519},"Immer so dachte, da muss doch so viel Aufwand dahinterstecken, dieses Kartenmaterial, dass es so viele Leute tun.",{"text":45381,"start":9519,"end":9554},"Aber jetzt hab ich die Antwort darauf, so viele Leute tun's gar nicht.",31,{"sentences":45384,"speaker":514,"num_words":44739,"start":9554,"end":9565},[45385],{"text":45386,"start":9554,"end":9565},"Es gibt mir 2.",{"sentences":45388,"speaker":122,"num_words":45393,"start":9565,"end":9631},[45389,45391],{"text":45390,"start":9565,"end":9600},"Es haben anfänglich aber wohl mal mehr probiert, wenn ich richtig verstanden wollte.",{"text":45392,"start":9600,"end":9631},"So Yahoo Bing und so was, die hatten das mal auch selbst gemacht.",26,{"sentences":45395,"speaker":514,"num_words":44755,"start":9631,"end":9664},[45396,45398],{"text":45397,"start":9631,"end":9660},"Also die haben sich die Kartendaten auch selber auch eingekauft von 'n.",{"text":1618,"start":9660,"end":9664},{"sentences":45400,"speaker":122,"num_words":122,"start":9664,"end":9667},[45401],{"text":662,"start":9664,"end":9667},{"sentences":45403,"speaker":514,"num_words":45413,"start":9667,"end":9911},[45404,45406,45407,45409,45411],{"text":45405,"start":9667,"end":9695},"die haben halt auch on top dann noch die Service gebaut.",{"text":938,"start":9695,"end":9698},{"text":45408,"start":9698,"end":9724},"Also Du hast einmal die Kartendaten, das sind die Rohrdaten.",{"text":45410,"start":9728,"end":9857},"Und dann hast Du halt zum Beispiel 'n Routingservice, den Yahoo da mal selber gebaut hat, aber einen globalen Routingservice zu bauen, der dir wirklich entweder normales Routing anbietet oder halt auch direction, also für eine Navigation, ist halt schon noch mal eine Liga, ne.",{"text":45412,"start":9857,"end":9911},"Weil Du halt da, da ist halt nicht ein Produkt, was global funktioniert, sondern da ist auch viel lokales Wissen, sondern.",88,{"sentences":45415,"speaker":514,"num_words":45426,"start":9915,"end":10114},[45416,45418,45420,45422,45424],{"text":45417,"start":9915,"end":9936},"Und das ist halt schon eine recht große Investition.",{"text":45419,"start":9939,"end":9980},"Also ist echt simpel, aber grade Routing und Navigation ist halt schon sehr, sehr investment happy.",{"text":45421,"start":9983,"end":10031},"Und für sone Yahoo ist oder oder eine macht das halt irgendwann keinen Sinn mehr, so was so was selber zu bauen.",{"text":45423,"start":10031,"end":10048},"Ist dann dann gelöst das Problem, ne.",{"text":45425,"start":10048,"end":10114},"Irgendwann sind die Rating Service halt von den Core Anbietern jetzt eine eine Nokia also halt auch so gut, dass man die einfach einkaufen kann, ne.",80,{"sentences":45428,"speaker":514,"num_words":44739,"start":10114,"end":10127},[45429],{"text":45430,"start":10114,"end":10127},"Oder über eine Partnerschaft.",{"sentences":45432,"speaker":122,"num_words":44879,"start":10130,"end":10336},[45433,45435,45437,45439,45441],{"text":45434,"start":10130,"end":10135},"Ja, gut.",{"text":45436,"start":10135,"end":10191},"Und da, wenn ich's noch mal schlussendlich richtig verstehe, also 'n NAFTEC, das also Nokia hat 'n Nokia gekauft.",{"text":45438,"start":10191,"end":10212},"Das heißt, es gehört zu Nokia Produkt.",{"text":45440,"start":10215,"end":10297},"Und und weil weil ich würd damals, als ich hier das erste Mal benutzt hab, ich hab's glaub ich benutzt, weil das die Offline Funktionalität für Karten glaub ich gut hat.",{"text":45442,"start":10297,"end":10336},"Das heißt im asiatischen Raum hab ich's genutzt, irgendwie mit meinem Roller irgendwo rumzufahren.",{"sentences":45444,"speaker":122,"num_words":45449,"start":10340,"end":10420},[45445,45447],{"text":45446,"start":10340,"end":10397},"Und da dachte ich immer so gut, hier ist 'n kleiner Player im Maps Business, aber eigentlich sind das dann sogar eher die Großen.",{"text":45448,"start":10397,"end":10420},"Hab ich jetzt hab ich noch wieder was gelernt?",33,{"sentences":45451,"speaker":514,"num_words":178,"start":10420,"end":10457},[45452],{"text":45453,"start":10420,"end":10457},"Also die die Storyline ist, es gab eine No Care Gate Five.",{"sentences":45455,"speaker":122,"num_words":122,"start":10457,"end":10460},[45456],{"text":1618,"start":10457,"end":10460},{"sentences":45458,"speaker":514,"num_words":45020,"start":10463,"end":10592},[45459,45461,45463,45465,45467],{"text":45460,"start":10463,"end":10503},"Es gab eine Gate Five GMBH in Berlin, die wurde von No Care gekauft in Finnland.",{"text":45462,"start":10506,"end":10528},"Dann hat Gate Five, also dann Nokia Gate Five Mhm.",{"text":45464,"start":10530,"end":10542},"Den Deal gemacht mit gekauft.",{"text":45466,"start":10545,"end":10563},"Und diese beiden wurden kombiniert in oder.",{"text":45468,"start":10565,"end":10592},"Das war dann sozusagen die neue Brand und das das neue Unternehmen.",{"sentences":45470,"speaker":514,"num_words":45481,"start":10595,"end":10841},[45471,45473,45475,45477,45479],{"text":45472,"start":10595,"end":10610},"Und das wurd auch ausgegliedert von Nokia.",{"text":45474,"start":10613,"end":10625},"Das waren also 2 verschiedene Entitäten.",{"text":45476,"start":10629,"end":10796},"Und war halt, das war halt auch basierend auf dem, was wir initial gemacht haben mit 'ner Jahr hohen anderen Kunden, der Gedanke, wir bauen jetzt nicht nur noch Maps wie Nokia auf Symbian, sondern wir bieten das als Plattform an, sondern deswegen hat man das ausgegliedert in Heamaps, das halt global einfach als unabhängige Plattform anbieten zu können, unabhängig von Nokia, was mit Nokia passiert.",{"text":45478,"start":10799,"end":10806},"Das war die Storyline.",{"text":45480,"start":10810,"end":10841},"Und wie gesagt immer noch heute am Markt, ne, wie man sieht.",95,{"sentences":45483,"speaker":514,"num_words":44782,"start":10841,"end":10905},[45484,45485,45486,45488,45489],{"text":938,"start":10841,"end":10844},{"text":1787,"start":10847,"end":10848},{"text":45487,"start":10848,"end":10898},"Und neben der Plattform verkaufen die immer noch auch Mapdaten, ne, BMW oder Mercedes Automotive Industrie.",{"text":1787,"start":10901,"end":10902},{"text":938,"start":10904,"end":10905},{"sentences":45491,"speaker":514,"num_words":45496,"start":10908,"end":10949},[45492,45494],{"text":45493,"start":10908,"end":10921},"Ganz kurz zu der Offline Funktion.",{"text":45495,"start":10921,"end":10949},"Das war so die Core Value Perposition von Ocar.",15,{"sentences":45498,"speaker":122,"num_words":44932,"start":10953,"end":10959},[45499],{"text":45500,"start":10953,"end":10959},"Das hat von",{"sentences":45502,"speaker":514,"num_words":45507,"start":10961,"end":11080},[45503,45505],{"text":45504,"start":10961,"end":10981},"Kannst halt offline deine deine Navigation machen.",{"text":45506,"start":10983,"end":11080},"Das Spannende daran ist, dass halt dieser Code, der auf sonem Symbion Telefon lief und entsprechend optimiert war, diese Navigation auf dem Telefon offline zu machen, den gleichen Code haben wir genommen auf den Server gepackt.",43,{"sentences":45509,"speaker":122,"num_words":122,"start":11080,"end":11084},[45510],{"text":1618,"start":11080,"end":11084},{"sentences":45512,"speaker":514,"num_words":45523,"start":11084,"end":11224},[45513,45515,45517,45519,45521],{"text":45514,"start":11084,"end":11118},"Und damit dann aufm Server Routing Kalkulation Geocoling, revers Geocoling.",{"text":45516,"start":11122,"end":11158},"Es war halt son megaklein, ich glaub 10 Megabyte Package oder so.",{"text":45518,"start":11160,"end":11176},"Und das konnten wir genauso aufm Server betreiben.",{"text":45520,"start":11180,"end":11200},"Weil Servercode und kleinen Code war der gleiche.",{"text":45522,"start":11203,"end":11224},"Das konnte halt online navigieren oder offline navigieren.",46,{"sentences":45525,"speaker":122,"num_words":45530,"start":11227,"end":11277},[45526,45528],{"text":45527,"start":11227,"end":11268},"Was was was heißt, was war das für eine Programmiersprache oder was würdest, war das geschrieben?",{"text":45529,"start":11268,"end":11277},"Weißt Du das?",19,{"sentences":45532,"speaker":514,"num_words":178,"start":11277,"end":11312},[45533,45535,45536],{"text":45534,"start":11277,"end":11298},"A c plus plus oder A c.",{"text":44913,"start":11302,"end":11306},{"text":45537,"start":11306,"end":11312},"Also recht und",{"sentences":45539,"speaker":122,"num_words":45544,"start":11315,"end":11382},[45540,45542],{"text":45541,"start":11315,"end":11374},"Das heißt, war eigentlich zuerst, diese Navigation war war für den Client gebaut und habt ihr, als die Plattform gebaut habt, dann einfach.",{"text":45543,"start":11378,"end":11382},"Ja, interessant.",25,{"sentences":45546,"speaker":514,"num_words":45074,"start":11384,"end":11432},[45547,45548],{"text":938,"start":11384,"end":11385},{"text":45549,"start":11385,"end":11432},"Und daher megaeffizient, was zum Server Serverkapazitäten angeht, ja, zumindest den Footprint, ja.",{"sentences":45551,"speaker":143,"num_words":45560,"start":11432,"end":11609},[45552,45553,45554,45556,45558],{"text":1618,"start":11432,"end":11435},{"text":11440,"start":11438,"end":11439},{"text":45555,"start":11442,"end":11492},"Eine kurze Nachfrage, aber sonst müssen wir 'n bisschen weitergehen, weil Du hast noch andere spannende Stationen, glaub ich.",{"text":45557,"start":11492,"end":11551},"Aber Du hast es gesagt, am Ende von deiner Beraterzeit, Consultingzeit hattest Du auch relativ viel schon so Projektmanagement gemacht.",{"text":45559,"start":11551,"end":11609},"Kannst Du so ganz grob einauthen, wie viel das war, also wie viel Du Technik gemacht hast und wie viel schon das andere war?",65,{"sentences":45562,"speaker":143,"num_words":44830,"start":11609,"end":11697},[45563,45565],{"text":45564,"start":11609,"end":11648},"Und war das dann 'n Asset, was sie spannend fanden, als Du dann gewechselt bist?",{"text":45566,"start":11648,"end":11697},"Oder was war so, was wollten sie vor allen Dingen von dir, als sie dich eingestellt haben bei hier?",{"sentences":45568,"speaker":514,"num_words":45044,"start":11701,"end":11883},[45569,45570,45572,45574,45576],{"text":938,"start":11701,"end":11702},{"text":45571,"start":11705,"end":11717},"Also Projektmanagement selber bei Accenture.",{"text":45573,"start":11721,"end":11806},"Wie gesagt, ich bin angefangen als Journalist, hab ich 'n IC, bin dann Richtung Teamleitung gegangen, hab mit 2, 3 Leute geleitet und dann halt mehrere Teams geleitet und so weiter.",{"text":45575,"start":11806,"end":11839},"Es war eher so Peeple Leadership und dann einfach Delivery Management, ne.",{"text":45577,"start":11839,"end":11883},"Also dafür sorgen, dass wir halt Features liefern zu den vereinbarten Zeiten und so weiter.",{"sentences":45579,"speaker":514,"num_words":44963,"start":11883,"end":12021},[45580,45582,45583,45584,45586],{"text":45581,"start":11883,"end":11903},"Das war halt alles auch Wasserfall und so weiter.",{"text":1618,"start":11903,"end":11905},{"text":1787,"start":11907,"end":11908},{"text":45585,"start":11908,"end":11966},"Und Projektmanagement selber im Sinne von klassisches Programmmanagement oder so hab ich nicht gemacht bei Accenture, sondern eher wirklich und und Delivery.",{"text":45587,"start":11969,"end":12021},"Aber in dem Profil hast Du ganz klar sehr viel Stakeholder, Kommunikation, Projektmanagement im Sinne von Delivery Management.",{"sentences":45589,"speaker":514,"num_words":44866,"start":12021,"end":12120},[45590,45592,45594,45596,45598],{"text":45591,"start":12021,"end":12033},"Und wann liefern wir was?",{"text":45593,"start":12035,"end":12058},"Wie können wir Voraussagen, Schätzungen machen und so weiter?",{"text":45595,"start":12062,"end":12069},"Und viel Architektur.",{"text":45597,"start":12069,"end":12103},"Das war son bisschen so, ist auch heute noch, glaub ich, son bisschen mein Steckenpferd.",{"text":45599,"start":12107,"end":12120},"Das Thema Architektur und so weiter.",{"sentences":45601,"speaker":514,"num_words":45305,"start":12120,"end":12224},[45602,45604,45606,45608,45610],{"text":45603,"start":12120,"end":12132},"Welche Systeme bauen wir?",{"text":45605,"start":12132,"end":12142},"Wie bauen wir sie?",{"text":45607,"start":12145,"end":12161},"Und das war, glaub ich, interessant für Nokia.",{"text":45609,"start":12164,"end":12193},"Also dadurch, ich war halt nicht nur 1 Nerd, sondern Mischmasch aus.",{"text":45611,"start":12196,"end":12224},"Ich glaub, da spielt's jetzt aber während mein Studium wieder, nicht?",{"sentences":45613,"speaker":514,"num_words":45624,"start":12224,"end":12447},[45614,45616,45618,45620,45622],{"text":45615,"start":12224,"end":12262},"Also 'n bisschen so Elektrotechnik BWL, bei Accenture, Softwareentwicklung, Management, Delivery Management.",{"text":45617,"start":12265,"end":12323},"Und dann bei Know how halt diese Rolle als P o Architekt, Leader auch Manager, Pro Manager.",{"text":45619,"start":12327,"end":12349},"Also relativ breit aufgestellt, ne, was das angeht.",{"text":45621,"start":12351,"end":12427},"Und halt auch in der Lage, a, mit dem Team zu reden über technische Architektur, Implementierung, Delivery, aber auch b, mit dem Kunden zu reden wie 'ner Yahoo.",{"text":45623,"start":12431,"end":12447},"Und da entsprechend kommunikativ unterwegs zu sein.",72,{"sentences":45626,"speaker":514,"num_words":44879,"start":12447,"end":12651},[45627,45629,45631,45633,45635],{"text":45628,"start":12447,"end":12475},"Das das ja, das möcht ich aufn Kunden loslassen kann.",{"text":45630,"start":12478,"end":12562},"Ich glaub, das hab ich bei Accenture gelernt, ne, also wie ich mit Stakeholdern umgehe, Stakeholdermanager und so weiter, Upmanagement, aber auch ins Team rein, ne, technisch entsprechend technisch zu sein.",{"text":45632,"start":12564,"end":12605},"Und ich glaub, das andere, was über Accenture gelernt hat, ich nenn das heute immer noch.",{"text":45634,"start":12609,"end":12624},"Also im Detail drin sein, ne.",{"text":45636,"start":12624,"end":12651},"Nicht irgendwie nur rumlabern, sondern auch verstehen, was wir tun.",{"sentences":45638,"speaker":514,"num_words":45530,"start":12654,"end":12700},[45639,45641,45643],{"text":45640,"start":12654,"end":12677},"Und relativ tief im Detail sein, wenn's sein muss, ne.",{"text":45642,"start":12677,"end":12692},"Das hat sich immer so durchgezogen.",{"text":45644,"start":12692,"end":12700},"Ich meine Karriere.",{"sentences":45646,"speaker":122,"num_words":45649,"start":12704,"end":12761},[45647],{"text":45648,"start":12704,"end":12761},"Und das auch, das schaffst Du auch, jetzt spring ich schon 'n bisschen nach vorne weg, das schaffst Du auch heute noch?",22,{"sentences":45651,"speaker":514,"num_words":45662,"start":12764,"end":13010},[45652,45654,45656,45658,45660],{"text":45653,"start":12764,"end":12803},"Ja, weil ich, also da kommt wieder das, was ich mal erzählt hab mit 'nem Spielzeug auseinandernehmen.",{"text":45655,"start":12803,"end":12857},"Ich bin extrem, also ich bin sehr, sehr interessiert daran, wie Dinge funktionieren und das zieht sich bis heute durch.",{"text":45657,"start":12860,"end":12926},"Und wenn es das schaff ich natürlich heute nicht in der Breite, aber es gibt ja immer so Battles, die man grade hat, ne, in 'nem Mhm.",{"text":45659,"start":12928,"end":12970},"Team oder in 'ner Organisation oder wenn's bestimmte Produkt launt ist geht und so weiter.",{"text":45661,"start":12970,"end":13010},"Und dann geh ich auch gerne entsprechend tief rein, halt die richtigen Fragen zu stellen.",94,{"sentences":45664,"speaker":514,"num_words":44918,"start":13010,"end":13151},[45665,45667,45669,45671],{"text":45666,"start":13010,"end":13023},"Darum geht's am Ende, ne.",{"text":45668,"start":13023,"end":13070},"Erst mal eine Steam halt challenged oder schaut, okay, haben Sie haben wir an alles gedacht, ne.",{"text":45670,"start":13070,"end":13096},"Und dann haben wir sind wir aufm guten Vater nicht.",{"text":45672,"start":13096,"end":13151},"Und dafür musst Du halt schon 'n bisschen, glaub ich, Verständnis haben von dem, was passiert in 'nem Team oder in 'ner Organisation.",{"sentences":45674,"speaker":122,"num_words":45684,"start":13154,"end":13554},[45675,45676,45678,45680,45682],{"text":938,"start":13154,"end":13155},{"text":45677,"start":13155,"end":13315},"Find ich auf jeden Fall, also kann ich komplett nachvollziehen, weil ich auch immer das Gefühl hab, so gerade, also wenn ich auch Glück auf meiner Karriere, welche Manager ich am besten fand, dann waren's auch die, die mit dieser Attitüde rangegangen sind und ich auch das eigentlich selbst zu machen, wie man's, wie Leute es überhaupt anders schaffen.",{"text":45679,"start":13315,"end":13406},"Ich glaub, mein Kopf ist auch ähnlich dann gepoltd wie schon Steiner, dass ich mich frage, wie würde man das überhaupt machen, wenn ich bei diesen Themen dann nicht so im Detail drin wäre so.",{"text":45681,"start":13406,"end":13500},"Also ich merke das bei den Themen so, gerade jetzt bei uns im Produktmanagement Beispiel Deswegen ich bin sehr viel besser in all den Topics, wo ich auch mal es theoretisch auch mal schon selbst gemacht hab.",{"text":45683,"start":13500,"end":13554},"Zum Beispiel ist meine Schwäche so mit so, würde ich sagen, auf Designseite so, weil ich nie selbst Designer war.",152,{"sentences":45686,"speaker":122,"num_words":45694,"start":13554,"end":13698},[45687,45689,45691,45692],{"text":45688,"start":13554,"end":13575},"Ich hab's nie von der Pike auf gelernt.",{"text":45690,"start":13575,"end":13690},"Ich kann da schon ganz guten Input geben, aber ich merke, das ist qualitativ ganz anderer Input und ich kann ganz anders auch führen, wenn ich in den Themen wie Entwicklung und Produkt und so, wo ich einfach überall im Detail auch mit drin bin oder zumindest mal war.",{"text":938,"start":13692,"end":13693},{"text":45693,"start":13693,"end":13698},"Sehr interessant.",60,{"sentences":45696,"speaker":514,"num_words":44807,"start":13700,"end":13840},[45697,45699,45700,45702,45704],{"text":45698,"start":13700,"end":13727},"Ja, es kommt halt dann auch die Erfahrung mit rein, ne.",{"text":938,"start":13727,"end":13729},{"text":45701,"start":13729,"end":13751},"Wenn man halt viele Dinge schon gesehen hat.",{"text":45703,"start":13754,"end":13794},"Jetzt ob man da, dann sieht man da, okay, wird das Problem wieder unsicher, ne.",{"text":45705,"start":13794,"end":13840},"Weil ich dann sagen, okay, hier ist meine Erfahrung, hab ich schon mal gemacht, hab ich schon mal gesehen.",{"sentences":45707,"speaker":514,"num_words":45718,"start":13840,"end":13925},[45708,45710,45712,45714,45716],{"text":45709,"start":13840,"end":13851},"Weiß ich, funktioniert nicht.",{"text":45711,"start":13853,"end":13866},"Lass mal gleich vermeiden, Ja.",{"text":45713,"start":13868,"end":13883},"Dass man gleich den Weg langgehen.",{"text":45715,"start":13887,"end":13899},"Das hilft halt schon, ne.",{"text":45717,"start":13899,"end":13925},"Muss man nicht irgendwie den Fehler mehrmals machen im Leben.",30,{"sentences":45720,"speaker":122,"num_words":45649,"start":13928,"end":13985},[45721,45722,45724],{"text":45078,"start":13928,"end":13933},{"text":45723,"start":13933,"end":13980},"Ich glaub, Dennis hat das gemeint, wir müssen 'n bisschen weitergehen, sonst wird unser Zeitbudget hier schwierig, ne.",{"text":45725,"start":13980,"end":13985},"Aber wie",{"sentences":45727,"speaker":143,"num_words":44739,"start":13987,"end":13997},[45728],{"text":45729,"start":13987,"end":13997},"Oder willst Du willst",{"sentences":45731,"speaker":122,"num_words":44854,"start":13997,"end":14014},[45732],{"text":45733,"start":13997,"end":14014},"Du die Frage zum Übergang machen?",{"sentences":45735,"speaker":143,"num_words":44991,"start":14017,"end":14151},[45736,45738],{"text":45737,"start":14017,"end":14079},"Jein, also eine Kleinigkeit noch, vielleicht zu so hier so einfach, dass wir 'n Business einordnen können, was die Größe so anging.",{"text":45739,"start":14083,"end":14151},"Also mit wie vielen Leuten hast Du damals da zusammengearbeitet und wie stark hat sich das auch Unternehmen weiterentwickelt, während Du die 5 Jahre 5 Jahre bei bei hier warst?",{"sentences":45741,"speaker":514,"num_words":45264,"start":14154,"end":14333},[45742,45744,45746,45748,45750],{"text":45743,"start":14154,"end":14235},"Also Teamgröße war, ich muss ja, 'n bisschen in neuen CVina schauen, das ist schon sehr lange her, aber ich glaub, es waren so 20 plus Leute, ne.",{"text":45745,"start":14235,"end":14274},"Das war halt Mischmaß aus Infrastruktur, weil wir da wirklich auch Server selber gebaut haben.",{"text":45747,"start":14277,"end":14294},"Da fing Amazon grade an, ABS.",{"text":45749,"start":14297,"end":14312},"Nicht Amazon, sondern ABS fing grade an.",{"text":45751,"start":14315,"end":14333},"Infrastrukturteam, Programmmanagement, Produktmanagement und so was.",{"sentences":45753,"speaker":514,"num_words":45763,"start":14333,"end":14545},[45754,45756,45758,45759,45761],{"text":45755,"start":14333,"end":14419},"Und dann, das war mein Team, aber das, was wir geliefert haben, ging halt eigentlich über das komplette Organisation, weil das halt Produkte aus verschiedenen Teams waren, die wir zusammen paketiert haben als Plattformen, ne.",{"text":45757,"start":14419,"end":14474},"Also der Skope war schon größer als die 20 Leute, was was Produktmanagement angeht oder Programmmanagement war das ja dann im Endeffekt.",{"text":1787,"start":14474,"end":14477},{"text":45760,"start":14479,"end":14511},"Und hier hat sich halt dann weiterentwickelt mehr Richtung Plattformen, dass es heute ist, ne.",{"text":45762,"start":14511,"end":14545},"Also wirklich, das waren so die die ersten Tage von dem, was man heute sieht, als.",89,{"sentences":45765,"speaker":514,"num_words":45776,"start":14549,"end":14671},[45766,45768,45770,45772,45774],{"text":45767,"start":14549,"end":14588},"Dass man eine Plattform hat mit APIs, die verkauft mit Services und Top und so weiter.",{"text":45769,"start":14590,"end":14606},"In die Richtung ging das dann ganz klar.",{"text":45771,"start":14606,"end":14621},"Wir hatten mehrere Kunden, wir hatten Bing.",{"text":45773,"start":14625,"end":14657},"Wir hatten dann auch, na ja gut, Microsoft, wie ist das so was?",{"text":45775,"start":14659,"end":14671},"Die hatten ja reines Mobile",49,{"sentences":45778,"speaker":143,"num_words":44932,"start":14675,"end":14684},[45779],{"text":45780,"start":14675,"end":14684},"Windowsphone einfach, oder?",{"sentences":45782,"speaker":514,"num_words":45793,"start":14684,"end":14864},[45783,45785,45787,45789,45791],{"text":45784,"start":14684,"end":14695},"Ja, Windowsphone, genau.",{"text":45786,"start":14697,"end":14738},"Da war 'n Metall von, was da lief da nicht so gut wie er letztes Jahr.",{"text":45788,"start":14741,"end":14772},"Genau, weiß, ob gapla, Amazon, die uns genutzt hat und so weiter.",{"text":45790,"start":14774,"end":14787},"Das hat sich einfach weiter ausgebaut, ne.",{"text":45792,"start":14787,"end":14864},"Und meine meine, bevor ich dann gegangen bin, haben wir das Ganze dann auch auf AWS gehoben, weg von unseren eigenen Servern global Data Center auf AWS Cloud.",66,{"sentences":45795,"speaker":514,"num_words":178,"start":14864,"end":14895},[45796],{"text":45797,"start":14864,"end":14895},"Genau, das war so die die technische Weiterentwicklung dann von der Plattform.",{"sentences":45799,"speaker":143,"num_words":45718,"start":14897,"end":14976},[45800,45802,45804],{"text":45801,"start":14897,"end":14918},"Ja, schade damals, mit Duden das vorne.",{"text":45803,"start":14918,"end":14947},"Ich fand das eigentlich 'n ganz netten Ansatz, muss ich sagen.",{"text":45805,"start":14947,"end":14976},"Also von dem, was sagen, es war es war halt zu spät.",{"sentences":45807,"speaker":514,"num_words":45496,"start":14979,"end":15016},[45808,45809,45811,45812],{"text":938,"start":14979,"end":14980},{"text":45810,"start":14980,"end":15003},"Genau, zu spät und 3 Player ist halt schwierig, ne.",{"text":938,"start":15003,"end":15006},{"text":45813,"start":15006,"end":15016},"3 Ökosysteme, ja.",{"sentences":45815,"speaker":143,"num_words":44733,"start":15018,"end":15074},[45816],{"text":45817,"start":15018,"end":15074},"Wenn Bing damals schon ein Thema war, hat dich die Verbindung auch zu deinem nächsten Job zu Skype gebracht oder was völlig unabhängig?",{"sentences":45819,"speaker":514,"num_words":44866,"start":15077,"end":15191},[45820,45822,45824,45826,45828],{"text":45821,"start":15077,"end":15083},"Gar nicht.",{"text":45823,"start":15083,"end":15091},"Glaub nicht.",{"text":45825,"start":15091,"end":15100},"Das war eigentlich privat.",{"text":45827,"start":15104,"end":15163},"Also ich, meine Freundin zu dem Zeitpunkt war aus Tschechien, hat 'n Englisch gesprochen, hat mit mir in Berlin gelebt.",{"text":45829,"start":15166,"end":15191},"Dann gesagt so, okay, sprachlich nicht so einfach für sie.",{"sentences":45831,"speaker":514,"num_words":44820,"start":15191,"end":15394},[45832,45834,45836,45838,45840],{"text":45833,"start":15191,"end":15240},"Warum ziehen wir nicht in ein englischsprachliches Land, dass wir mehr gleichgestellt sind, was zumindest die Sprachen angeht?",{"text":45835,"start":15240,"end":15274},"Und noch mal als Ziel irgendwie, in die USA zu ziehen.",{"text":45837,"start":15274,"end":15333},"Und zu dem Zeitpunkt hat mich dann irgendwie Skype angepinkt und meint so, hey, wir haben da eine Rolle in Seattle, bist Du interessiert.",{"text":45839,"start":15337,"end":15378},"Und dann bin ich da in den Prozess eingestiegen, wie Du aber vielleicht in meinem Lebenslauf siehst.",{"text":45841,"start":15378,"end":15394},"Ich hab's nie in die USA geschafft.",{"sentences":45843,"speaker":122,"num_words":45335,"start":15396,"end":15413},[45844,45846],{"text":45845,"start":15396,"end":15402},"Zu sehen.",{"text":45847,"start":15405,"end":15413},"Nächste Frage gewesen.",{"sentences":45849,"speaker":514,"num_words":44991,"start":15416,"end":15552},[45850,45851,45853,45855,45857],{"text":1787,"start":15416,"end":15417},{"text":45852,"start":15421,"end":15481},"Also ich war dann, weil ich kein Visum hatte für 'n Job in den USA, bin ich erst mal nach Stockholm umgezogen für ein Jahr.",{"text":45854,"start":15481,"end":15510},"Das war der Plan, da noch 'n Visa zu bekommen.",{"text":45856,"start":15513,"end":15535},"Es gibt diese L-eins-Visa, die bekommt man dann automatisch.",{"text":45858,"start":15538,"end":15552},"In dem Jahr wurde meine Frau bescheuert.",{"sentences":45860,"speaker":514,"num_words":45069,"start":15556,"end":15728},[45861,45863,45865,45866,45868],{"text":45862,"start":15556,"end":15612},"Und dann hat sich, da hat die Familienplanung sozusagen den Umzug verhindert, weil weil das doch zu weit weg war, ne, ne.",{"text":45864,"start":15612,"end":15679},"Also wir haben gesagt, okay, wenn wir 'n Kind haben, wollen wir nie an den an der an der Familie sein und sind an den Schweden geblieben.",{"text":1787,"start":15679,"end":15682},{"text":45867,"start":15682,"end":15694},"Mein Team war aber verteilt.",{"text":45869,"start":15694,"end":15728},"Also ich hatte Team in Stockholm, Team in Redmond, Team in Estonia.",{"sentences":45871,"speaker":514,"num_words":45876,"start":15732,"end":15772},[45872,45874],{"text":45873,"start":15732,"end":15756},"Von da hat's eigentlich keine Rolle gespielt, wo ich war.",{"text":45875,"start":15756,"end":15772},"Und wir sind dann in Stockholm geblieben.",17,{"sentences":45878,"speaker":122,"num_words":45881,"start":15774,"end":15792},[45879],{"text":45880,"start":15774,"end":15792},"Das heißt, was war deine Rolle dann bei Skype?",9,{"sentences":45883,"speaker":514,"num_words":45892,"start":15795,"end":15947},[45884,45886,45887,45888,45890],{"text":45885,"start":15795,"end":15823},"Bei Skype bin ich eingestiegen als Direktor, wie hieß es damals?",{"text":15829,"start":15827,"end":15828},{"text":1618,"start":15831,"end":15832},{"text":45889,"start":15834,"end":15915},"Zu dem Zeitpunkt hatte Skype noch 3 Disziplinen, Produktmanagement, Software Engineering und Software Engineering und Test, also Testautomatisierung und hab die Teams geleitet, die Testinfrastruktur, Testautomatisierungen bereitstellen.",{"text":45891,"start":15918,"end":15947},"Also bei Skype war ja die Challenge, wie testet man den Skype Client?",53,{"sentences":45894,"speaker":514,"num_words":45523,"start":15947,"end":16080},[45895,45897,45898,45900,45902],{"text":45896,"start":15947,"end":15989},"Das ist ja jetzt nicht irgendwie 'n Standard Tool, was man irgendwie runterladen kann im Internet.",{"text":1618,"start":15989,"end":15992},{"text":45899,"start":15992,"end":16040},"Drum ist irgendwie Audioqualität, Videoqualität in 'nem Skype oder Skype Gruppen Call testen können, automatisiert.",{"text":45901,"start":16043,"end":16076},"Und das hat mein Team damals bereitgestellt, diese diese Infrastruktur, das Tooling dafür.",{"text":1787,"start":16079,"end":16080},{"sentences":45904,"speaker":514,"num_words":44807,"start":16080,"end":16214},[45905,45907],{"text":45906,"start":16080,"end":16152},"Und dann, aber es gab in der Zeit auch, ich glaub, 5, wo ich da war, hatte dann auch verschiedene Rollen, hat dann teilweise auch andere Teams mit mir übernommen.",{"text":45908,"start":16155,"end":16214},"War aber superspannend, weil Skype grade weggegangen ist von der Peer to Peer Architektur, was ja so der Haupt, die Haupt von Skype war.",{"sentences":45910,"speaker":122,"num_words":45876,"start":16214,"end":16254},[45911,45913],{"text":45912,"start":16214,"end":16223},"Na, war das?",{"text":45914,"start":16223,"end":16254},"Am Anfang war das alles Peer to Peer, das hatt ich gar nicht son.",{"sentences":45916,"speaker":514,"num_words":45496,"start":16258,"end":16294},[45917,45918],{"text":938,"start":16258,"end":16259},{"text":45919,"start":16259,"end":16294},"Das war alles Peer to peace, was auch eine sehr, sehr geile Technologie ist.",{"sentences":45921,"speaker":122,"num_words":44739,"start":16294,"end":16306},[45922],{"text":45923,"start":16294,"end":16306},"Kosteneffizient auf jeden Fall?",{"sentences":45925,"speaker":514,"num_words":45718,"start":16309,"end":16393},[45926,45928,45930],{"text":45927,"start":16309,"end":16338},"Funktioniert leider nur nicht, wenn die Welt Richtung Mobiltelefonen gehst.",{"text":45929,"start":16338,"end":16391},"Also wenn wenn Leute halt verstärkt Mobiltelefone nutzen, weil Skype halt einen der Clients immer als Relay verwendet hat.",{"text":1618,"start":16391,"end":16393},{"sentences":45932,"speaker":122,"num_words":122,"start":16393,"end":16396},[45933],{"text":16399,"start":16393,"end":16396},{"sentences":45935,"speaker":514,"num_words":44979,"start":16396,"end":16636},[45936,45938,45940,45942,45944],{"text":45937,"start":16396,"end":16498},"Das heißt, grade wenn Du 'n Gruppencall hast, dann war 1 der Skype Clients der derjenige, der dann das Multiplexen der Videostreams gemacht hat und da ist halt schon sehr, sehr intensiv, was Rechenleistung angeht.",{"text":45939,"start":16500,"end":16536},"Genau, deswegen ist man weggegangen von der Peer to Peer zu 'ner cloudbasierten Architektur.",{"text":45941,"start":16536,"end":16613},"Außerdem hat man ja Skype und Microsoft damals, aber grad zu dem Zeitpunkt gab's so die Verschmelzung von, damals hieß das noch, Ich weiß nicht, ob wir das noch kennen.",{"text":45943,"start":16613,"end":16621},"Sehr lange, ja.",{"text":45945,"start":16621,"end":16636},"Ganz wildes Punkt, ja.",{"sentences":45947,"speaker":514,"num_words":45957,"start":16638,"end":16735},[45948,45950,45952,45953,45955],{"text":45949,"start":16638,"end":16651},"Ich hatte mal Memory League.",{"text":45951,"start":16651,"end":16686},"15 Minuten ist das Ding abgestürzt, konnt man die Uhr nachstellen.",{"text":1787,"start":16690,"end":16691},{"text":45954,"start":16691,"end":16723},"Also es gab und Skype und das haben wir halt verheiratet in einem Produkt.",{"text":45956,"start":16725,"end":16735},"Skype for Business und Skype.",36,{"sentences":45959,"speaker":514,"num_words":45393,"start":16738,"end":16803},[45960],{"text":45961,"start":16738,"end":16803},"Und war halt cloudbasiert und Skype Peer to be und dann haben wir halt komplett, haben wir's eigentlich komplett neu geschrieben auf eine cloud basierte Architektur.",{"sentences":45963,"speaker":122,"num_words":45973,"start":16805,"end":17086},[45964,45966,45968,45970,45972],{"text":45965,"start":16805,"end":16838},"War das dann damals 'n großes Thema so, Peer to Peer to Peer to Cloud?",{"text":45967,"start":16838,"end":16879},"Weil ich mein, der Business Case muss ja schon 'n komplett anderer gewesen sein dann damals, oder?",{"text":45969,"start":16879,"end":16978},"Weil ich mir, also ich hatte nur mal, wir hatten mal für Lotum haben wir auch mal so mal überlegt, ob wir ein Game bauen mit irgendwie Videochatten, weil bestimmte Funktionalitäten wollten auch überlegt, ob wir das mal selbst bauen.",{"text":45971,"start":16978,"end":17083},"Da hatte ich mal son paar Brotschuppen gebaut und mal irgendwie Kostenhochrechnung gemacht und so was, wenn das, wenn wir dafür dann doch Serverinfrastruktur nehmen und so, ich sag mal so für einen Game an sich hat sich's nicht gerechnet so.",{"text":938,"start":17085,"end":17086},114,{"sentences":45975,"speaker":122,"num_words":45544,"start":17086,"end":17146},[45976,45978],{"text":45977,"start":17086,"end":17144},"Das aber das können wir vorstellen, dass das bei Skype durchaus auch, wenn es genau die Phase wurde da warst, durchaus Thema war so.",{"text":943,"start":17144,"end":17146},{"sentences":45980,"speaker":514,"num_words":45881,"start":17148,"end":17168},[45981],{"text":45982,"start":17148,"end":17168},"Also weißt Du jetzt aus eurer aus 'ner Kostensicht?",{"sentences":45984,"speaker":122,"num_words":45987,"start":17172,"end":17197},[45985],{"text":45986,"start":17172,"end":17197},"Ja, aus 'ner Kostensicht auch, ja, weil ich mir vorstellen kann,",11,{"sentences":45989,"speaker":514,"num_words":45449,"start":17197,"end":17293},[45990,45992,45994,45996,45998],{"text":45991,"start":17197,"end":17221},"dass es Also Kosten interessanterweise war kein Thema.",{"text":45993,"start":17225,"end":17241},"War aber halt auch Microsoft Ja, klar.",{"text":45995,"start":17244,"end":17251},"Schon mal, ja.",{"text":45997,"start":17254,"end":17290},"Ich glaub, Skype so als freies Produkt, da macht halt Peer to Peer Sinn.",{"text":1618,"start":17290,"end":17293},{"sentences":46000,"speaker":514,"num_words":46011,"start":17296,"end":17546},[46001,46003,46005,46007,46009],{"text":46002,"start":17296,"end":17301},"Aber kostengünstig.",{"text":46004,"start":17304,"end":17346},"Aber deutlich, dass Microsoft Skype aufgekauft hat, ging's halt eher darum, daraus 'n kommerzielles Produkt zu machen.",{"text":46006,"start":17348,"end":17437},"Und halt die Skype Technologie, also grade die Audio- und Videokodex damals noch, einfach zu verwenden für auch den den Businessteil, der halt jetzt im Office mit irgend so nicht nicht sehr prickelnd war.",{"text":46008,"start":17439,"end":17505},"Und da ging's halt eher darum, eine Lösung für Business bereitzustellen, wo's grade Gruppen Calls geht und auch große Meetings und so weiter mit 1000 plus Leuten.",{"text":46010,"start":17508,"end":17546},"Und da, das kannst Du halt nur cloudbasiert machen, das geht nicht p to p basiert.",96,{"sentences":46013,"speaker":514,"num_words":45100,"start":17549,"end":17756},[46014,46015,46017,46019],{"text":938,"start":17549,"end":17550},{"text":46016,"start":17550,"end":17656},"Das andere Problem war halt, dass der Skype Code, der war halt auch schon irgendwie 10 Jahre alt, da gab's halt Teile von Code, weiß nicht, ob man das erzählen darf, aber gab's gar nicht mehr als Hauscode, sondern nur auch als Inair.",{"text":46018,"start":17660,"end":17690},"Und keiner keiner konnte das Ding ja auch irgendwie lesen oder oder mit arbeiten.",{"text":46020,"start":17693,"end":17756},"Also Skype, kurz bevor ich gestartet bin, war ein Jahr sone Art Feature Freeze, weil keiner was releasen konnte, weil das Ding so broken war.",{"sentences":46022,"speaker":122,"num_words":122,"start":17756,"end":17758},[46023],{"text":17760,"start":17756,"end":17758},{"sentences":46025,"speaker":514,"num_words":44733,"start":17762,"end":17821},[46026,46028],{"text":46027,"start":17762,"end":17788},"Und da haben wir gesagt, okay, jetzt müssen wir was tun.",{"text":46029,"start":17788,"end":17821},"Und hat dann diese Entscheidung getroffen, auf glaub passiert zu denen, ne.",{"sentences":46031,"speaker":122,"num_words":44739,"start":17824,"end":17834},[46032,46033],{"text":45543,"start":17824,"end":17829},{"text":46034,"start":17831,"end":17834},"Ja, krass.",{"sentences":46036,"speaker":143,"num_words":45560,"start":17834,"end":17996},[46037,46039,46041,46043,46045],{"text":46038,"start":17834,"end":17855},"Ich wollte noch mal son bisschen auf die Motivation.",{"text":46040,"start":17858,"end":17930},"Also einmal in die USA zu kommen war eine Motivation, aber war jetzt technisch dann doch was anderes als jetzt eine Map Plattform zu bauen oder zumindest so vom vom Produkt her?",{"text":46042,"start":17934,"end":17959},"Würdest Du sagen, da bist Du eher produktgetrieben oder technologiegetrieben?",{"text":46044,"start":17963,"end":17984},"Also was was hat dich so motiviert an den Stellen?",{"text":46046,"start":17984,"end":17996},"Oder was war tatsächlich?",{"sentences":46048,"speaker":514,"num_words":44892,"start":17999,"end":18233},[46049,46051,46053,46055,46057],{"text":46050,"start":17999,"end":18015},"Ich glaub, also beides, glaub ich.",{"text":46052,"start":18017,"end":18066},"Technologie oder warum Skype für mich interessant war und Skype bei mir interessiert war, war als skalierbare, cloud basierte Services.",{"text":46054,"start":18069,"end":18159},"Das hab ich bei Nokia gemacht mit mit großen Kunden, die halt unsere Mapplattform verwendet haben mit entsprechenden Traffic, dass sie genau das, was Skype zu den Zeitungen wollte, dass sie auf die cloudbasierte Lösung gehen.",{"text":46056,"start":18159,"end":18204},"Von daher war das 'n ganz guter Fit, dass ich da Erfahrung hatte, wie man skalierbare Services baut.",{"text":46058,"start":18207,"end":18233},"Und für mich war das Produkt halt interessant, ne, weil's halt 'n hat.",{"sentences":46060,"speaker":514,"num_words":44807,"start":18235,"end":18369},[46061,46063,46065,46067,46069],{"text":46062,"start":18235,"end":18257},"Skype hat halt Leute verbunden, 300000000 User damals noch.",{"text":46064,"start":18257,"end":18316},"Ist halt schon geil, ne, wenn Du halt wenn die Oma den Enkel anrufen kann und und die sich über Video unterhalten können.",{"text":46066,"start":18316,"end":18337},"Das ist halt schon noch mal eine andere Liga, ne.",{"text":46068,"start":18340,"end":18354},"Anstatt jetzt eine Mapplattform zu bauen.",{"text":46070,"start":18354,"end":18369},"Also von der Produktsicht auch interessant.",{"sentences":46072,"speaker":514,"num_words":44830,"start":18371,"end":18449},[46073,46075],{"text":46074,"start":18371,"end":18438},"Und dann halt als Teil von Microsoft halt spannend auch zu sehen, wie sich das dann integriert an andere Produkte und so weiter und da diese Entwicklung auch zu sehen.",{"text":46076,"start":18438,"end":18449},"Ist halt megaspannend mit.",{"sentences":46078,"speaker":143,"num_words":46081,"start":18453,"end":18470},[46079],{"text":46080,"start":18453,"end":18470},"Wolltest Du noch was anderes fragen, Fabi?",7,{"sentences":46083,"speaker":122,"num_words":45310,"start":18470,"end":18501},[46084,46086],{"text":46085,"start":18470,"end":18492},"Nee, ich wir können gerne weiter zu Klarna.",{"text":46087,"start":18497,"end":18501},"Überlass dir.",{"sentences":46089,"speaker":143,"num_words":45544,"start":18504,"end":18574},[46090,46092],{"text":46091,"start":18504,"end":18529},"Ja, Klarna, die zumindest Standardtier in der Nähe.",{"text":46093,"start":18529,"end":18574},"Ich weiß gar nicht, haben wahrscheinlich auch noch oder nur hatten, weißt Du, das war wie in",{"sentences":46095,"speaker":514,"num_words":44733,"start":18577,"end":18646},[46096,46098,46100],{"text":46097,"start":18577,"end":18584},"Glaub ja, ja.",{"text":46099,"start":18586,"end":18591},"In Duisburg.",{"text":46101,"start":18591,"end":18646},"Der der CTOs war bis vor Kurzem, wenigen der Jahren, das war mein beim Peer bei Klarna, ja.",{"sentences":46103,"speaker":143,"num_words":45310,"start":18649,"end":18674},[46104],{"text":46105,"start":18649,"end":18674},"Ja, Klarna, wie ist es da zu dem Wechsel gekommen?",{"sentences":46107,"speaker":514,"num_words":44932,"start":18674,"end":18684},[46108],{"text":46109,"start":18674,"end":18684},"Warum wo Genau.",{"sentences":46111,"speaker":143,"num_words":44932,"start":18686,"end":18693},[46112,46114],{"text":46113,"start":18686,"end":18691},"Also, genau.",{"text":938,"start":18691,"end":18693},{"sentences":46116,"speaker":514,"num_words":45523,"start":18693,"end":18814},[46117,46119,46121,46123,46124],{"text":46118,"start":18693,"end":18723},"Also Skype Stockholm war halt, war 'n Team 180 Leute ungefähr.",{"text":46120,"start":18723,"end":18743},"Die haben sich spezialisiert auf Audio- und Videokodex.",{"text":46122,"start":18747,"end":18779},"Das gleiche Team hatte man in den USA, in Seattle, nur auf Microsoft Seite.",{"text":1618,"start":18779,"end":18782},{"text":46125,"start":18784,"end":18814},"Und dann war es halt fast 'n Jahr lang irgendwie im Battle.",{"sentences":46127,"speaker":514,"num_words":44991,"start":18817,"end":18958},[46128,46130,46132,46134,46135],{"text":46129,"start":18817,"end":18830},"Wer hat den geileren Codec?",{"text":46131,"start":18830,"end":18846},"Wer hat den geilere Codebase?",{"text":46133,"start":18849,"end":18936},"Und dann war's relativ klar absehbar, dass Microsoft jetzt nicht sehr daran interessiert ist, irgendwie 'n Stockholm Office noch weiter zu betreiben, grade wenn's drum ging, das in die Office Produktsuite mit zu integrieren.",{"text":1618,"start":18936,"end":18940},{"text":46136,"start":18942,"end":18958},"Da wollen sie doch mehr Kontrolle haben.",{"sentences":46138,"speaker":514,"num_words":45624,"start":18958,"end":19147},[46139,46141,46143,46145],{"text":46140,"start":18958,"end":19005},"Und dann waren's natürlich abzusehen, dass Skype wahrscheinlich in Stockholm zumindest runterskaliert oder vielleicht gar nicht mehr existiert.",{"text":46142,"start":19008,"end":19035},"Und genau, und zu dem Tappung gab's dann auch Diskussionen.",{"text":46144,"start":19035,"end":19129},"'N Freund von mir, 'n Kollege von mir, der war's grad mit dem war, der ist zu Klarna gewechselt und hat mich dann irgendwie 'n 300 Spieler angerufen und hat gesagt, hey, willst nicht zu Klarna kommen?",{"text":46146,"start":19129,"end":19147},"Und genau, bin ich bei Klarna eingestiegen.",{"sentences":46148,"speaker":122,"num_words":45496,"start":19149,"end":19186},[46149,46150],{"text":19153,"start":19149,"end":19150},{"text":46151,"start":19150,"end":19186},"Und jetzt was was war da deine Aufgabe, was war deine Rolle bei Klarna?",{"sentences":46153,"speaker":514,"num_words":45776,"start":19186,"end":19330},[46154,46156,46158,46160,46162],{"text":46155,"start":19186,"end":19197},"Genau, komplett andere Aufgabe.",{"text":46157,"start":19200,"end":19236},"Und zwar war ich da eigentlich so halt, ja, böse gesagt Projektmanagement, aber Delivery Management.",{"text":46159,"start":19238,"end":19269},"Also Klarna war Größenordnung im Bereich 200 Leute ungefähr, 250 Leute.",{"text":46161,"start":19273,"end":19310},"Und hat extreme Probleme gehabt, irgendwie größere Initiativen, also größere Produkte zu launchen.",{"text":46163,"start":19313,"end":19330},"Haben grade versucht, 'n Kreditprodukt aufzusetzen.",{"sentences":46165,"speaker":514,"num_words":45264,"start":19333,"end":19499},[46166,46168,46170,46172,46174],{"text":46167,"start":19333,"end":19363},"Das nennt sich heute Klararanzzahlung, glaub ich, oder oder so was.",{"text":46169,"start":19365,"end":19383},"Und das ist halt irgendwie kläglich gescheitert.",{"text":46171,"start":19383,"end":19440},"Und dann mal son bisschen die die Quintessenz, ja, wir sind irgendwie, wir sind sehr gut in der Produktion wirklich in einzelnen Teams.",{"text":46173,"start":19440,"end":19475},"Aber wenn's darum geht, irgendwas über mehrere Teams hinweg zu liefern, komplettes Failure.",{"text":46175,"start":19479,"end":19499},"Und hat dann diese Rolle Delivery Manager eingeführt.",{"sentences":46177,"speaker":514,"num_words":46187,"start":19502,"end":19726},[46178,46180,46181,46183,46185],{"text":46179,"start":19502,"end":19525},"Klarna war damals, bei Klarna war der Marty Kaagen.",{"text":1618,"start":19529,"end":19530},{"text":46182,"start":19533,"end":19589},"Der kam halt irgendwie einmal im Jahr rein und hat sie zusammengeschaut und gesagt, hier, das müsst ihr fixen, das war nicht gut.",{"text":46184,"start":19589,"end":19636},"Und eine von den Action Items aus dem Workshop war halt, ihr müsst 'n Deliver Manager einstellen.",{"text":46186,"start":19639,"end":19726},"Und das war ich, bin dann halt eingestiegen, hab dann zusammen mit dem CPO, CEO, CTO haben uns überlegt, okay, wie wie können wir eine andere Arbeitsweise aufsetzen, die halt auch funktioniert über Teams hinweg.",85,{"sentences":46189,"speaker":514,"num_words":46200,"start":19729,"end":19917},[46190,46192,46194,46196,46198],{"text":46191,"start":19729,"end":19776},"Und hab dann da son kleines Team aufgebaut mit Delivery Managern, die halt sich speziell son große Initiativen gekümmert haben.",{"text":46193,"start":19776,"end":19794},"Als Beispiel halt dieses Kreditproduktlaune, ne.",{"text":46195,"start":19796,"end":19820},"Und das hab ich son halbes Jahr gemacht, 9 Monate ungefähr.",{"text":46197,"start":19822,"end":19845},"Und bin dann gewechselt Richtung wieder Standard Engineing Rolle.",{"text":46199,"start":19845,"end":19917},"Also hab dann 'n Payment Team mit übernommen, hab dann 'n Plattformteam mit aufgebaut, also 'n Core Payment Team, die also Payment Gatebie und so was gebaut haben.",74,{"sentences":46202,"speaker":514,"num_words":45329,"start":19919,"end":19988},[46203,46205,46206],{"text":46204,"start":19919,"end":19947},"Und dann 'n Plattformteam aufgebaut, was es damals auch noch nicht so gab.",{"text":1787,"start":19951,"end":19952},{"text":46207,"start":19954,"end":19988},"Hatte dann auch wieder recht diverse Bandbreite oder recht große Bandbreite an Rollen.",{"sentences":46209,"speaker":122,"num_words":122,"start":19988,"end":19991},[46210],{"text":1618,"start":19988,"end":19991},{"sentences":46212,"speaker":514,"num_words":46081,"start":19995,"end":20017},[46213,46215],{"text":46214,"start":19995,"end":20012},"Deliry Management, Core Payments und Plattformteam.",{"text":938,"start":20016,"end":20017},{"sentences":46217,"speaker":122,"num_words":45151,"start":20019,"end":20190},[46218,46220,46222,46224,46226],{"text":46219,"start":20019,"end":20024},"Ja, supercool.",{"text":46221,"start":20024,"end":20111},"Vielleicht als kleine, als Seitenwork Marty Kaagens ja auch bei uns bei Lottem großes Thema, also unsere Product Manager Rolle orientiert sich auch sehr an seinen Büchern Ja.",{"text":46223,"start":20114,"end":20123},"Inspiriert und empowered.",{"text":46225,"start":20123,"end":20151},"Also hier noch mal sehr als große Empfehlung gerne gerne lesen.",{"text":46227,"start":20151,"end":20190},"Ist bei uns 1 der Bibeln, die auch Neuankömmlinge immer aufn Tisch gelegt wird.",{"sentences":46229,"speaker":122,"num_words":44820,"start":20190,"end":20383},[46230,46232,46233,46235,46237],{"text":46231,"start":20190,"end":20202},"So, das mal lesen.",{"text":938,"start":20202,"end":20204},{"text":46234,"start":20207,"end":20265},"Find ich auch sehr interessant, dass dann dieser Delivery Managervorschlag auch ihm dann damals kaum in seiner Rolle als Berater bei Klarna.",{"text":46236,"start":20265,"end":20343},"Vielleicht dazu die Frage, wenn das ein Problem war, was sie hatten, was bisher noch keiner ausgefüllt hat und dich jetzt zumindest in deiner Erklärung Delivery Manager noch nicht in deinen Vorrollen gesehen hat.",{"text":46238,"start":20343,"end":20383},"Also warum hat man dich gefragt, dass Du dieser Delivery Manager wirst, der diese Probleme löst?",{"sentences":46240,"speaker":514,"num_words":45560,"start":20386,"end":20546},[46241,46243,46245,46247,46249],{"text":46242,"start":20386,"end":20396},"Ist gute Frage, ne.",{"text":46244,"start":20396,"end":20452},"Ich glaub, der der mein Kollege bei Klarna, der mich dann dort angerufen hat, der ist dort eingestiegen als, ich glaub, Director Engineering oder.",{"text":46246,"start":20454,"end":20462},"Ich glaub, Director Engineering.",{"text":46248,"start":20465,"end":20513},"Der hat das dann halt auch gesehen, dass es da Probleme gibt in dem Bereich, auch basierend auf dieser Analyse.",{"text":46250,"start":20517,"end":20546},"Und hatte anscheinend den Eindruck, dass ich da vielleicht ganz gut drin bin.",{"sentences":46252,"speaker":514,"num_words":46263,"start":20546,"end":20738},[46253,46255,46257,46259,46261],{"text":46254,"start":20546,"end":20628},"Weil ich, glaub ich, relativ strukturiert bin und auch relativ gut bin, irgendwie so Sachen zu organisieren, 'n großes zu haben und auf Deliver auch stark fokussiert bin, ne, in meiner ganzen Karriere.",{"text":46256,"start":20630,"end":20670},"Geht wieder zurück trägt, Center wahrscheinlich, wo ich halt da sehr stark dort fokussiert war.",{"text":46258,"start":20672,"end":20680},"Und hab mich angerufen.",{"text":46260,"start":20683,"end":20710},"Und dann dacht ich so, okay, ist meine ganz andere Rolle.",{"text":46262,"start":20710,"end":20738},"Bin halt wieder sozusagen als eingestiegen, weil ich erst mal alleine war.",75,{"sentences":46265,"speaker":514,"num_words":46276,"start":20738,"end":20930},[46266,46268,46270,46272,46274],{"text":46267,"start":20738,"end":20795},"Und fand das eigentlich ganz spannend, weil ich da auch irgendwie mal 600 sehr Zeit hatte, mich so auf ein Thema mit halt zu fokussieren.",{"text":46269,"start":20798,"end":20818},"In Skype hatt ich irgendwie so 80, 90 Leute.",{"text":46271,"start":20818,"end":20838},"Das war halt global verteilt und all so klassisches.",{"text":46273,"start":20843,"end":20883},"Managment und so weiter und das war halt eine komplett andere Rolle, fand ich ja sehr spannend.",{"text":46275,"start":20886,"end":20930},"Und anscheinend bring ich die Attribute mit, die die die die dazu führen, dass ich das irgendwie hinbekomme.",78,{"sentences":46278,"speaker":514,"num_words":44854,"start":20933,"end":20947},[46279],{"text":46280,"start":20933,"end":20947},"Zumindest gab's ja das Vertrauen wieder.",{"sentences":46282,"speaker":143,"num_words":46290,"start":20950,"end":21288},[46283,46285,46286,46288],{"text":46284,"start":20950,"end":21135},"Ja, wahrscheinlich könnte man eine ganze Podcastfolge alleine über über diesen Themenbereich machen, aber auch da würd's mich tatsächlich nicht mal so interessieren, einfach von der von der Stimmung und der Kultur vielleicht auch, weil ich mir vorstelle, ne, da sind irgendwie, sagt das irgendwie Run about 200 Entwickler in den in den Teams waren und jetzt kommt da son Delivery Manager, der hingesetzt wird, den man vielleicht auch vorher nicht kennt.",{"text":938,"start":21138,"end":21139},{"text":46287,"start":21139,"end":21249},"Wie war so die die Akzeptanz und also Kommunikation zu was müssen wir anders machen, kannst Du da ein bisschen, also war viel Widerstand, musste man da irgendwie, auch weiß ich nicht, sich von Leuten trennen, wo es wo das von Mindset nicht passt.",{"text":46289,"start":21253,"end":21288},"Also was waren so die die großen Herausforderungen vielleicht so aus kultureller Sicht?",130,{"sentences":46292,"speaker":514,"num_words":46302,"start":21291,"end":21596},[46293,46294,46296,46298,46300],{"text":938,"start":21291,"end":21292},{"text":46295,"start":21295,"end":21372},"Also kulturell ist sone Rolle immer schwierig, ne, weil das ist halt so, da kommt jemand rein, der ist nicht in son Team, sondern da kommt so und und will irgendwie mitdrehen und koordinieren.",{"text":46297,"start":21375,"end":21415},"Ist erst mal wahrscheinlich, zumindest bei einigen Leuten kann man ganz klar sehen, Ablehnung, ne oder so.",{"text":46299,"start":21415,"end":21450},"Was ist denn deine was sind dein Value Ads hier, so nach dem Motto.",{"text":46301,"start":21453,"end":21596},"Aber ich glaub, das ist dann eher die Frage, wie man's angeht und wie man, dass man halt Mehrwert zeigt in der Rolle und ganz klar nicht zu stark in die Teams reingeht und diktiert, sondern wirklich eigentlich 'n Framework bereitstellt, wo die Teams immer noch sehr autonom agieren können, aber wo man halt Alignment schafft zwischen den Teams.",125,{"sentences":46304,"speaker":514,"num_words":46315,"start":21598,"end":21874},[46305,46307,46309,46311,46313],{"text":46306,"start":21598,"end":21690},"Wenn Du dieses Alignment schaffst, dass die Leute sehen, ah okay, wenn wir und wir uns vernünftig allein und abstimmen und ein Ziel haben, dann macht das auch Sinn für uns, weil wir dann als Company 'n Mehrwert liefern.",{"text":46308,"start":21693,"end":21749},"Du musst also relativ schnell eine Art Framework schaffen, Arbeitsweise schaffen, wo Teams halt 'n Mehrwert auch drin sehen und nicht nur 'n Overhappt.",{"text":46310,"start":21753,"end":21784},"Weil das Problem ist meistens bei diesen Rollen, dass Du mit welchen Prozessen ankommst.",{"text":46312,"start":21787,"end":21839},"Und dann halt so Projektmanagements da irgendwie Teams halt mit Arbeit zu Ballast, die erst mal wahrscheinlich keinen Sinn macht für sie.",{"text":46314,"start":21841,"end":21874},"Von daher muss halt so diesen diesen diese Grat vernommen inzwischen, ich helf euch.",113,{"sentences":46317,"speaker":514,"num_words":45530,"start":21877,"end":21925},[46318,46320],{"text":46319,"start":21877,"end":21913},"Und ihr seht den Mehrwert relativ schnell versus Prozess Overhead für die Teams, ne?",{"text":46321,"start":21913,"end":21925},"Das ist so die Balance.",{"sentences":46323,"speaker":122,"num_words":45496,"start":21928,"end":21967},[46324,46326],{"text":46325,"start":21928,"end":21952},"Und was was war denn 'n Allimment Tool dafür?",{"text":46327,"start":21952,"end":21967},"Also für so die die Ja.",{"sentences":46329,"speaker":514,"num_words":44782,"start":21967,"end":22018},[46330],{"text":46331,"start":21967,"end":22018},"Also der der Witz war das Problem noch nicht in Teams, sondern vielleicht müssen wir das dann rausschneiden, mal gucken.",{"sentences":46333,"speaker":122,"num_words":122,"start":22018,"end":22021},[46334],{"text":938,"start":22018,"end":22021},{"sentences":46336,"speaker":514,"num_words":45087,"start":22024,"end":22278},[46337,46339,46341,46343,46345],{"text":46338,"start":22024,"end":22086},"Das Problem war halt klassisch wie niemanden Start-up, FounderLab, ne, Founder, CPO haben geile Ideen, die ändern sich aber auch regelmäßig.",{"text":46340,"start":22089,"end":22186},"Und dann gibt's noch die Idee und dann gibt's auch die Idee und dann rennt der Founder zu dem Engineering Team und sagt, hey, hier könnt ihr das mal umsetzen, weil das ist irgendwie beste Zeit, beste Idee.",{"text":46342,"start":22189,"end":22211},"Und das sorgt dann dafür, dass Sachen nicht geliefert werden.",{"text":46344,"start":22211,"end":22265},"Das heißt, was ich erst mal gemacht hab, ist halt, wir haben uns zusammen gesagt, hat gesagt, okay, was sind eigentlich die Topthemen?",{"text":46346,"start":22268,"end":22278},"Was ist 'n Business kritisch?",{"sentences":46348,"speaker":514,"num_words":44941,"start":22281,"end":22397},[46349,46351,46353,46355,46357],{"text":46350,"start":22281,"end":22291},"Ja, ist ja ganz klar.",{"text":46352,"start":22291,"end":22302},"Ist das ist das Kreditprodukt?",{"text":46354,"start":22306,"end":22309},"Ja, okay.",{"text":46356,"start":22312,"end":22385},"Lass uns doch mal so die Top 3, 4 Initiativen identifizieren und die ganz klar kommunizieren und sagen, das sind so die Topsachen, an die jeder sich fokussieren sollte, ne.",{"text":46358,"start":22387,"end":22397},"Und das haben wir gemacht.",{"sentences":46360,"speaker":514,"num_words":46366,"start":22399,"end":22472},[46361,46363,46364],{"text":46362,"start":22399,"end":22433},"Da hab ich noch gesehen, dass es relativ schwer ist, sich daran zu halten.",{"text":1618,"start":22433,"end":22437},{"text":46365,"start":22437,"end":22472},"Und das war dann irgendwie 3 Wochen später waren's dann irgendwie wieder 3 andere",29,{"sentences":46368,"speaker":122,"num_words":44755,"start":22474,"end":22508},[46369,46371],{"text":46370,"start":22474,"end":22496},"Gut, von wer wer kann sich später daran halten?",{"text":46372,"start":22496,"end":22508},"Bestimmt nicht die Teams.",{"sentences":46374,"speaker":514,"num_words":46384,"start":22508,"end":22780},[46375,46376,46378,46380,46382],{"text":44913,"start":22508,"end":22513},{"text":46377,"start":22515,"end":22559},"Und dann ist es halt eher und dafür sorgen, dass wir ganz klar kommunizieren, was sind die Top Prios?",{"text":46379,"start":22563,"end":22673},"Und dann halt da eine Framework schaffen, wo Du sagst, okay, ihr lingt jetzt mal eure hier in diese ganzen in die in die 3, 4 Initiativen rein und dann haben wir 'n Reporting drüber und sehen, wo wir stehen und was noch fehlt und so weiter.",{"text":46381,"start":22675,"end":22710},"Also 'n Reporting dann aufsetzen, dass wir da auch alle sind, was diese 3 Initiativen angeht.",{"text":46383,"start":22712,"end":22780},"Aber primär ist das dann halt CPO, dass wir halt nicht die Prioritäten alle 3 Wochen ändern und Teams halt so sonen Seiler links und rechts gehen.",111,{"sentences":46386,"speaker":514,"num_words":46396,"start":22782,"end":22892},[46387,46389,46390,46392,46394],{"text":46388,"start":22782,"end":22803},"Das wär dann echt so die Manchere Menschen.",{"text":16399,"start":22805,"end":22806},{"text":46391,"start":22806,"end":22867},"Der der ist son Google Sheet, da hat er sone Prioritätennummer bring geman Management, also das ist ja immer 10 Stück.",{"text":46393,"start":22867,"end":22878},"Ich so, ja, okay.",{"text":46395,"start":22880,"end":22892},"Aber die ändern sich jede Woche.",40,{"sentences":46398,"speaker":514,"num_words":45763,"start":22892,"end":23119},[46399,46401,46403,46405,46407],{"text":46400,"start":22892,"end":22946},"Und Du, der hat dann mal, also wortwörtlich hat er die Zeilen dann immer hin- und herverschoben jede Woche irgendwie.",{"text":46402,"start":22946,"end":22984},"Und ständig hat sich irgendwas geändert, 'n bisschen, das geht nicht, das kann's nicht machen.",{"text":46404,"start":22986,"end":23077},"Und haben dann halt also wirklich in der in der Klarna, in diesem in dieser Social Area, in Küchenbereich haben wir dann so Dashboards gehabt, wo wir so die Top 3 Initiativen, dass jeder gesehen hat.",{"text":46406,"start":23077,"end":23096},"Und das Kreditding war halt top, ja.",{"text":46408,"start":23096,"end":23119},"Und das hat sie auch nicht geändert fürs nächste halbe Jahr.",{"sentences":46410,"speaker":514,"num_words":46366,"start":23119,"end":23194},[46411,46413,46415,46417,46419],{"text":46412,"start":23119,"end":23132},"Und da haben haben alle gearbeitet.",{"text":46414,"start":23132,"end":23169},"Und dann halt auch visualisiert, welche Teams da reinarbeiten, Wo stehen die Teams?",{"text":46416,"start":23169,"end":23175},"Was fehlt noch?",{"text":46418,"start":23175,"end":23184},"Wann wollen wir launchen?",{"text":46420,"start":23188,"end":23194},"Business mit reingeholt.",{"sentences":46422,"speaker":514,"num_words":45319,"start":23198,"end":23277},[46423,46425,46427,46429,46431],{"text":46424,"start":23198,"end":23208},"Gesagt, warum arbeiten wir daran?",{"text":46426,"start":23208,"end":23223},"Was ist das Why dahinter?",{"text":46428,"start":23223,"end":23239},"Warum ist das wichtig für die Company?",{"text":46430,"start":23242,"end":23263},"Warum wollen wir das überhaupt launchen und was ist der?",{"text":46432,"start":23266,"end":23277},"Dieses Framework zu schaffen, ne?",{"sentences":46434,"speaker":514,"num_words":44854,"start":23277,"end":23291},[46435],{"text":46436,"start":23277,"end":23291},"Ich glaub, das ist halt wichtig.",{"sentences":46438,"speaker":122,"num_words":46447,"start":23294,"end":23478},[46439,46441,46443,46445],{"text":46440,"start":23294,"end":23388},"Und diese Vorstellung von dem Framework, ich fang jetzt grade so, woher hast Du das Know how gehabt, dieses Also ich mein, klar, es klingt ja irgendwie erst mal, ist relativ einfach so, ja gut, wir müssen die Prioritäten klarziehen.",{"text":46442,"start":23388,"end":23411},"Wir müssen den Teamskommission, was die Prioritäten sind.",{"text":46444,"start":23411,"end":23451},"Aber wenn Du da trotzdem sone Rolle das erste Mal kommst, woher hattest Du dieses Know how?",{"text":46446,"start":23451,"end":23478},"War das einfach wirklich gelernt oder wie wie einfach gut Viel",76,{"sentences":46449,"speaker":514,"num_words":45074,"start":23478,"end":23511},[46450,46451,46452,46453,46455],{"text":16736,"start":23478,"end":23481},{"text":1618,"start":23481,"end":23484},{"text":938,"start":23484,"end":23486},{"text":46454,"start":23486,"end":23493},"Wir von Skype.",{"text":46456,"start":23493,"end":23511},"Weil die haben halt so was gemacht, ne.",{"sentences":46458,"speaker":514,"num_words":44963,"start":23511,"end":23648},[46459,46461,46463,46465,46467],{"text":46460,"start":23511,"end":23539},"Weil die halt, Skype hatte halt noch eine größere Engineering Organisation.",{"text":46462,"start":23541,"end":23570},"Und da hatte man so Frameworks eingeführt, Planungs Frameworks so.",{"text":46464,"start":23573,"end":23610},"Und von Nokia halt das Ganze, son bisschen der Probermanager Hintergrund, den ich da hatte.",{"text":46466,"start":23610,"end":23624},"Aber da gab's nicht Probleme.",{"text":46468,"start":23624,"end":23648},"Man muss eine Yahoo Plattform zum Beispiel 'n Datum liefern.",{"sentences":46470,"speaker":514,"num_words":44918,"start":23650,"end":23786},[46471,46472,46474,46476,46478],{"text":1618,"start":23650,"end":23651},{"text":46473,"start":23654,"end":23668},"Alignment über Teams hinweg und so weiter.",{"text":46475,"start":23668,"end":23688},"Das war halt genau auch der Job da, ne.",{"text":46477,"start":23688,"end":23727},"Also Erfahrungen aus diesem Programmmanagement und dann halt bei Skype ganz konkret das Framework halt.",{"text":46479,"start":23730,"end":23786},"Natürlich angepasst auf Klarna, das war nur schon mal eine ganz andere Version, aber also der Hintergrund davon, das kommt von Sripe, ne.",{"sentences":46481,"speaker":122,"num_words":44963,"start":23788,"end":23921},[46482,46483,46485,46487,46489],{"text":19153,"start":23788,"end":23789},{"text":46484,"start":23792,"end":23863},"Ich will jetzt mal nach Klarna im Endeffekt, wir haben ja nennen das Ganze hier CTO Special, wir haben ja auch schon erzählt, Du bist aktuell CTO CTO von Blacklane.",{"text":46486,"start":23866,"end":23902},"Nach Klarna kam der erste CT, also nach Titel her CTO Job so.",{"text":46488,"start":23905,"end":23916},"Das war dann bei Join ProSieben.",{"text":938,"start":23920,"end":23921},{"sentences":46491,"speaker":122,"num_words":44830,"start":23921,"end":24003},[46492],{"text":46493,"start":23921,"end":24003},"Wie kam der Wechsel und war das irgendwie, also empfindest Du das als einen großen Schritt oder war das einfach nur, also ein ein anderer, der der ein ähnlicher Job mit einem anderen Titel?",{"sentences":46495,"speaker":514,"num_words":46506,"start":24006,"end":24223},[46496,46498,46500,46502,46504],{"text":46497,"start":24006,"end":24037},"Also der der Wechsel kam persönlich bedingt, dass wir zurück wollten nach Deutschland.",{"text":46499,"start":24041,"end":24076},"Und die Rolle CTO Rolle war, glaub ich, von der von der Größe der Organisation ähnlich.",{"text":46501,"start":24079,"end":24103},"Aber ich glaub, dass Stakeholder war noch mal anders, ne.",{"text":46503,"start":24103,"end":24204},"Grade bei 1 ProSieben, was ja doch eher Corporate ist und nicht Tech Company, nicht produktorientiert, war da, glaub ich, jetzt weniger die der Titel, die Challenge, sondern die Rolle halt in soner Art von Organisation erfolgreich zu sein, ne.",{"text":46505,"start":24207,"end":24223},"Das war, glaub ich, eher der große Unterschied.",87,{"sentences":46508,"speaker":122,"num_words":45507,"start":24223,"end":24327},[46509,46511],{"text":46510,"start":24223,"end":24283},"Und war das, weil Du grade meines persönlicher umschreibe, war das aber etwas, also wie wie hast Du dich, war das etwas darauf beworben?",{"text":46512,"start":24283,"end":24327},"War das auch wieder Vitamin b oder jemand, der dich angerufen hat oder wie wie wie kam es dazu?",{"sentences":46514,"speaker":514,"num_words":45507,"start":24327,"end":24445},[46515,46517,46518,46520,46522],{"text":46516,"start":24327,"end":24373},"Also die meisten Jobs waren eher so, irgendjemand hat mich kontaktiert und meinte, Du hast Interesse.",{"text":1618,"start":24376,"end":24377},{"text":46519,"start":24380,"end":24393},"Das war jetzt nicht aktive Suche.",{"text":46521,"start":24396,"end":24410},"Ja, ich hab nie wirklich aktiv gesucht.",{"text":46523,"start":24410,"end":24445},"Das hat sich ergeben irgendwie durchs Netzwerk oder Headamt oder was auch noch.",{"sentences":46525,"speaker":514,"num_words":46532,"start":24445,"end":24518},[46526,46528,46530],{"text":46527,"start":24445,"end":24495},"Und genau, und und dann war halt Dokumentationen halt 'n Aspekt, ne, wo nach Schweden, wo wollen wir hin?",{"text":46529,"start":24495,"end":24501},"Berlin, München.",{"text":46531,"start":24504,"end":24518},"Und das hat sich daran geben, München.",28,{"sentences":46534,"speaker":122,"num_words":46542,"start":24520,"end":24628},[46535,46536,46538,46540],{"text":24524,"start":24520,"end":24521},{"text":46537,"start":24521,"end":24579},"Und dann als Du als Du kamst, warst Du noch für Digital Entertainment und dann ab 19 war's dann wirklich Join.",{"text":46539,"start":24579,"end":24606},"So gab's ich hab den Hintergrund von Join eigentlich gar nicht.",{"text":46541,"start":24606,"end":24628},"Wurdest da dann erst gelauncht oder hast Du Genau,",42,{"sentences":46544,"speaker":514,"num_words":44991,"start":24628,"end":24771},[46545,46547,46549,46551,46552],{"text":46546,"start":24628,"end":24641},"das waren sie ein Venture.",{"text":46548,"start":24644,"end":24722},"Also ich bin eingestiegen bei bei ProSieben, in der ProSieben selber, hab da die Assets, die ProSieben selber verantwortet hat, also Zot 1, ProSieben Webseiten, Apps und so weiter verantwortet.",{"text":46550,"start":24726,"end":24766},"Und dann gab's die Max Dome, ich weiß nicht, wie das noch kennt oder so.",{"text":1618,"start":24766,"end":24769},{"text":938,"start":24769,"end":24771},{"sentences":46554,"speaker":514,"num_words":44979,"start":24771,"end":24997},[46555,46556,46558,46560,46562],{"text":1787,"start":24771,"end":24774},{"text":46557,"start":24777,"end":24810},"Und dann gab's halt die Diskussion, okay, macht das nicht Sinn, was irgendwie zusammenzuführen.",{"text":46559,"start":24814,"end":24938},"Und das Ganze in 'ner Partnerschaft, also 'n Joint Venture mit vergessen, mit einem Streaming, großen Content Providern, 'n Joint Venture zu machen und das aus der aus der ganzen aus dem ProSieben kommen wir am Rad, halt 'n eigenes eigenes Büro und so weiter.",{"text":46561,"start":24940,"end":24962},"Das war relativ schnell klar, so nach 'nem halben Jahr ungefähr.",{"text":46563,"start":24964,"end":24997},"Und dann ging's halt darum, das aufzubauen und die Leute mit rüberzuziehen und so weiter.",{"sentences":46565,"speaker":514,"num_words":46568,"start":24999,"end":25040},[46566],{"text":46567,"start":24999,"end":25040},"Und dann haben wir ja, dann haben wir das Ding halt fürn Sketch aufgebaut, dieses Streamingplattform.",16,{"sentences":46570,"speaker":143,"num_words":44782,"start":25044,"end":25094},[46571,46573],{"text":46572,"start":25044,"end":25063},"Was war die Hauptmotivation, das zu separieren?",{"text":46574,"start":25066,"end":25094},"Also wenn ihr auch technische Teams irgendwie da hattet, aber es dann trotzdem",{"sentences":46576,"speaker":514,"num_words":45523,"start":25096,"end":25223},[46577,46579],{"text":46578,"start":25096,"end":25221},"Ja, einfach Oder wenn ich's dann vom Konzern, wenn wir ja so Start-up, weil Du hast halt schon, wenn Du am Campus bist, hast Du also diese Corporatekultur und 'n Board und Betriebsrat und das ganze Zeug, was dir halt viel Energie raubt, glaub ich.",{"text":1618,"start":25221,"end":25223},{"sentences":46581,"speaker":143,"num_words":514,"start":25226,"end":25229},[46582,46583],{"text":1618,"start":25226,"end":25227},{"text":260,"start":25227,"end":25229},{"sentences":46585,"speaker":514,"num_words":44979,"start":25229,"end":25438},[46586,46588,46590,46592,46594],{"text":46587,"start":25229,"end":25241},"halt auch das Mindset, ne.",{"text":46589,"start":25241,"end":25271},"Also dass Du weißt, okay, wir sind hier eigenständig, wir sind eigene Company.",{"text":46591,"start":25275,"end":25349},"Und halt aus 'ner legalen Sicht, wenn Du 'n Joint Venture hast mit 'ner anderen Company, dass auch der Joint Venture Partner, der mit drin ist, auch sieht, okay, das ist eigenständig, ne.",{"text":46593,"start":25349,"end":25416},"Und es gibt, ihr seid nicht irgendwie hier noch als Teil von der von der anderen Company irgendwie untergebracht, sondern physikalisch eigenständig, aber auch vom Mindset her eigenständig.",{"text":46595,"start":25419,"end":25438},"Auch was Entscheidungstrafungen angeht und so weiter.",{"sentences":46597,"speaker":514,"num_words":45987,"start":25438,"end":25462},[46598,46600],{"text":46599,"start":25438,"end":25454},"Wir sind, wir waren wirklich autonom, ne.",{"text":46601,"start":25454,"end":25462},"Das ist schon wichtig.",{"sentences":46603,"speaker":122,"num_words":46606,"start":25464,"end":25519},[46604],{"text":46605,"start":25464,"end":25519},"Ja, wie groß wartet das das Team, was ihr dann da neu gegründet habt oder wie die das Joint Venture, das ihr gegründet habt?",24,{"sentences":46608,"speaker":514,"num_words":45776,"start":25522,"end":25645},[46609,46611,46612,46614,46616],{"text":46610,"start":25522,"end":25559},"Also als ich als ich dazugekommen bin, waren es, wenn ich 6 Leute oder so was.",{"text":25565,"start":25562,"end":25563},{"text":46613,"start":25567,"end":25586},"Und hab dann aber Leute mitgenommen von der ProSieben.",{"text":46615,"start":25589,"end":25630},"Es gab dann halt Diskussionen, jeden gefragt aus meinem ehemaligen Team an der ProSieben, habt ihr Lust?",{"text":46617,"start":25633,"end":25645},"Ist halt ist halt 'n Holocaust.",{"sentences":46619,"speaker":514,"num_words":45151,"start":25649,"end":25800},[46620,46622,46624,46626,46628],{"text":46621,"start":25649,"end":25676},"Ungefähr die Hälfte am Team ist, glaub ich, ja, ungefähr die Hälfte.",{"text":46623,"start":25676,"end":25701},"Ist ungefähr mitgekommen, hat gesagt, haben wir Bock drauf.",{"text":46625,"start":25704,"end":25719},"Und den Rest haben wir aufgebaut, ne.",{"text":46627,"start":25719,"end":25736},"Irgendwie 250 Leute zu Pik Zeiten.",{"text":46629,"start":25740,"end":25800},"Auch viele Externe, auf viel Osteuropa und so was, also Externe genutzt, weil wir halt ungefähr 9 Monate Zeit hatten, das Produkt zu launchen.",{"sentences":46631,"speaker":514,"num_words":45335,"start":25803,"end":25815},[46632],{"text":46633,"start":25803,"end":25815},"Also da gab's Wie kriegt",{"sentences":46635,"speaker":143,"num_words":44830,"start":25815,"end":25904},[46636,46638],{"text":46637,"start":25815,"end":25838},"man denn in der Zeit auch so viele Externe dann?",{"text":46639,"start":25841,"end":25904},"Also also es eher, also alleine irgendwie orchestriert, dass die an dem gleichen Ding arbeiten und dass es 'n Mehrwert bringt, so zu Also",{"sentences":46641,"speaker":514,"num_words":46011,"start":25904,"end":26151},[46642,46644,46646,46648,46650],{"text":46643,"start":25904,"end":25946},"wieder runterbrechen, also das Problem, wir müssen eine Streamingplattform bauen, welche welche Komponenten gibt es?",{"text":46645,"start":25946,"end":25958},"Welche Module gibt es?",{"text":46647,"start":25958,"end":25986},"Und dann halt in Teams aufteilen und dann halt die Teams socen.",{"text":46649,"start":25990,"end":26106},"Das hat ungefähr so 3 Monate gedauert, bis wir dann sozusagen definiert haben, wo wir gesagt haben, okay, das können wir jetzt eigenständig in son Team gehen, die dann irgendwo, damals war das noch, ja, Ukraine teilweise, Polen, die dann an an bestimmten Komponenten gearbeitet haben, ne.",{"text":46651,"start":26106,"end":26151},"Es gab dann irgendwie, als Beispiel, Du musst halt eine Plattform bauen, Content zu injoston mit entsprechenden, ja.",{"sentences":46653,"speaker":514,"num_words":45523,"start":26151,"end":26265},[46654,46656,46657,46659,46661],{"text":46655,"start":26151,"end":26188},"Also Du hast ja in diesem ganzen Medienbusiness relativ viele rechte, komplexe rechte Systeme.",{"text":1618,"start":26191,"end":26192},{"text":46658,"start":26192,"end":26213},"Wann darfst Du was ausstrahlen und so weiter.",{"text":46660,"start":26215,"end":26251},"Da gab's 'n Team, der haben nichts anderes gemacht für 6 Monate, als das Ding zu bauen.",{"text":46662,"start":26251,"end":26265},"Und das ist relativ eigenständig, ne.",{"sentences":46664,"speaker":514,"num_words":44963,"start":26267,"end":26403},[46665,46667,46669,46671,46673],{"text":46666,"start":26267,"end":26285},"Oder den Videostreaming Service für Livestream.",{"text":46668,"start":26289,"end":26300},"Das kannst Du relativ monularisieren.",{"text":46670,"start":26303,"end":26336},"Und dann hast Du halt 'n Team, dem machen nix anderes, aber relativ eigenständig.",{"text":46672,"start":26338,"end":26372},"Und am Ende muss es halt zusammenkommen, ne, in in der UX und so weiter.",{"text":46674,"start":26372,"end":26403},"Aber das kann man relativ grundunterbrechen das Problem, sondern Streaming Plattformen.",{"sentences":46676,"speaker":514,"num_words":45264,"start":26408,"end":26570},[46677,46679,46681],{"text":46678,"start":26408,"end":26482},"Frontend wird halt schwierig, ne, aber zum Beispiel eine 'n Frontend zu bauen für eine TV Plattform, irgendwie Android auf auf Sony oder so was, kannst Du halt komplett outsourcen.",{"text":46680,"start":26485,"end":26549},"Das sind Webfrontland Entwickler, das heißt, hier ist das Design, hier sind die Specs von dem Fernseher und dann geh ich mitm Baumer.",{"text":46682,"start":26553,"end":26570},"Das können wir also schon schon recht gut skalieren.",{"sentences":46684,"speaker":122,"num_words":46693,"start":26573,"end":26846},[46685,46687,46689,46691],{"text":46686,"start":26573,"end":26654},"Das heißt, war's am Ende auch so, wenn ich mir jetzt son, wenn mir grad überlegt, wie son Set-up dann son bisschen aussieht, war das dann, da ich das ja vorher modularisiert hab?",{"text":46688,"start":26654,"end":26786},"Ihr habt irgendwie in 'ner CTO, CPO mit Designern Rolle bisschen Zusammengabe und das Produkt definiert und dann son bisschen bestimmte, keine Ahnung, was technischeres, eigene Teams oder wenn sie extern irgendwo anders waren irgendwie geheiert und wenn Design ready war, das habt ihr in eurer Runde dann gemacht.",{"text":46690,"start":26786,"end":26810},"Das wurde zum Beispiel an einen externen Webdesigner dann gegeben.",{"text":46692,"start":26810,"end":26846},"Also so die Design haben ihr an euch gearbeitet als mit dem mit den Umsetzungsteams?",107,{"sentences":46695,"speaker":514,"num_words":46263,"start":26850,"end":27049},[46696,46698,46700,46702,46704],{"text":46697,"start":26850,"end":26874},"Also die wir hatten 'n extrem starken Designer, Mhm.",{"text":46699,"start":26876,"end":26891},"Der mit 'ner Agentur zusammengearbeitet hat.",{"text":46701,"start":26891,"end":27005},"Die haben uns das Konzept erstellt, wie die UX generell aussehen soll, das bX Paradime und haben da relativ viel am Anfang investiert, weil wir auch 'n Pitch bauen mussten für die Investoren, also die beiden Owner, wie wir uns das Produkt vorstellen.",{"text":46703,"start":27005,"end":27019},"Und das war dann die Basis.",{"text":46705,"start":27022,"end":27049},"Und als wir das hatten, konnten wir ja nicht loslegen, ne.",{"sentences":46707,"speaker":514,"num_words":45044,"start":27049,"end":27216},[46708,46710,46712,46714],{"text":46709,"start":27049,"end":27060},"Und dann konnten wir skalieren.",{"text":46711,"start":27062,"end":27122},"Was wir aber gemacht haben, ist halt bei Join, ich sag jetzt nicht, dass ich Fan davon bin, aber eingesetzt, also PII Planning.",{"text":46713,"start":27126,"end":27198},"Also wir haben uns einmal, ich weiß nicht, ich glaub einmal im Monat sogar, 'n anderen Quartal einmal 'n Quartal getroffen und haben halt das Ding durchgeplant, ne, projektmäßig.",{"text":46715,"start":27202,"end":27216},"Da will ich jetzt nicht wieder machen.",{"sentences":46717,"speaker":122,"num_words":44755,"start":27218,"end":27255},[46718,46720],{"text":46719,"start":27218,"end":27234},"Kannst Du dazu noch 2 Sätze zu?",{"text":46721,"start":27238,"end":27255},"Ich glaub's nicht jedem Begriff Nummer.",{"sentences":46723,"speaker":514,"num_words":45544,"start":27259,"end":27330},[46724,46726,46728,46729,46731],{"text":46725,"start":27259,"end":27265},"Ah, okay.",{"text":46727,"start":27267,"end":27271},"Framework Framework.",{"text":1618,"start":27271,"end":27275},{"text":46730,"start":27275,"end":27317},"Wird gerne eingesetzt von von Corpels und so weiter, in Anführungsstrichen Planungssicherheit zu haben.",{"text":46732,"start":27319,"end":27330},"Glaub ich nicht, dass das existiert.",{"sentences":46734,"speaker":514,"num_words":46011,"start":27330,"end":27569},[46735,46737,46739,46741,46743],{"text":46736,"start":27330,"end":27406},"Aber was ist halt, es hat halt geholfen, alle, wirklich alle Leute zusammenzubringen in 1 Location für ein, 2 Tage, wirklich versuchen durchzuplanen und eine Alimon zu schaffen, ne.",{"text":46738,"start":27406,"end":27447},"Weil anders kannst Du nicht 200 Leute irgendwie in die in die gleiche Richtung schicken, das funktioniert nicht.",{"text":46740,"start":27449,"end":27465},"Und da hat uns, glaub ich, geholfen, ne.",{"text":46742,"start":27465,"end":27511},"Dass wir einfach die Zeit investiert haben, 2 Tage zusammensetzen, einen Raum in Anführungsstrichen, das war eine Lokation.",{"text":46744,"start":27515,"end":27569},"Und da einfach versuchen zu planen und und Protein dann rauszufinden, okay, was sind meine Abhängigkeiten, was müsst ihr liefern und so weiter.",{"sentences":46746,"speaker":514,"num_words":45020,"start":27571,"end":27707},[46747,46749,46751,46752,46753],{"text":46748,"start":27571,"end":27585},"Ich glaub, das hat geholfen, ne.",{"text":46750,"start":27585,"end":27670},"Würd ich jetzt für eine normale Produkteinwirkung nicht machen, aber wir so, Deadlinebasierte Projekte hilft das halt schon, wo man eine ganz klare Vorgaben hat, ne, von Investoren oder externen Stakeholdern.",{"text":938,"start":27674,"end":27675},{"text":1787,"start":27677,"end":27678},{"text":46754,"start":27680,"end":27707},"Genau, weil wie gesagt, Design war ab Front, viel Investment, ne.",{"sentences":46756,"speaker":514,"num_words":45507,"start":27707,"end":27814},[46757,46759,46760,46762,46764],{"text":46758,"start":27707,"end":27779},"Und dann hatte man 'n Konzept und 'n und 'n High Level Design zumindest und konnt dann die Teams halt eigentlich nicht da weitermachen pro Plattform, iOS Web und so weiter.",{"text":938,"start":27781,"end":27782},{"text":46761,"start":27782,"end":27793},"Ja, so sehr spannend.",{"text":46763,"start":27793,"end":27802},"Also sehr stressig.",{"text":46765,"start":27805,"end":27814},"Ja, das Ich hatte",{"sentences":46767,"speaker":122,"num_words":46774,"start":27814,"end":28080},[46768,46770,46772],{"text":46769,"start":27814,"end":27967},"auch kurz überlegt, als ich Du noch mal zurückgeblickt, wann Du mir erzählt hast, dass Du Vater geworden bist und ich mir dann Also zum Beispiel eine Frage, die mir auf der Zunge gewandt war, ich hab jetzt mal geschätzt, dein Kind muss vielleicht 5 gewesen sein oder sowas und Du hast ja jedem der Company gefragt, hey, wer hat Lust mitzukommen?",{"text":46771,"start":27971,"end":28016},"Dann kam mir eigentlich die Frage so, war dir denn klar auf jeden Fall, das willst Du und willst Du machen?",{"text":46773,"start":28016,"end":28080},"Weil son, das ist ja bestimmt auch ein nicht geringer, zeitlicher Investment, irgendwie 'n Rollercoaster, den man sich bestimmt auch zweimal fragt, wenn",106,{"sentences":46776,"speaker":514,"num_words":46542,"start":28080,"end":28193},[46777,46779,46780,46782,46784],{"text":46778,"start":28080,"end":28101},"man Nee, die Frage stellt ich mir nicht.",{"text":28106,"start":28103,"end":28104},{"text":46781,"start":28104,"end":28120},"Also ich fand's einfach nur geil.",{"text":46783,"start":28120,"end":28170},"Also ich mein, wann ab an die Möglichkeit, eine Streamingplattform vom Scratch aufzubauen, grade, wenn man technisch ist.",{"text":46785,"start":28172,"end":28193},"Da ist halt Greenfield, ne und ist so geil.",{"sentences":46787,"speaker":514,"num_words":45347,"start":28193,"end":28301},[46788,46790,46792,46794,46796],{"text":46789,"start":28193,"end":28215},"Also ich bin halt immer up für eine Challenge.",{"text":46791,"start":28215,"end":28230},"Also zieht sich durch meine Karriere.",{"text":46793,"start":28230,"end":28251},"Auch bei Xentral haben wir schon, ne.",{"text":46795,"start":28251,"end":28289},"Immer so ins kalte Wasser geschmissen worden, bisschen untergegangen und dann angefangen zu schwimmen.",{"text":46797,"start":28289,"end":28301},"Das ist so mein Ding.",{"sentences":46799,"speaker":514,"num_words":45074,"start":28301,"end":28334},[46800,46802,46804],{"text":46801,"start":28301,"end":28313},"Das brauch ich, glaub ich.",{"text":46803,"start":28313,"end":28322},"So funktionier ich, ne.",{"text":46805,"start":28322,"end":28334},"Ja, hat ja vielleicht 'n",{"sentences":46807,"speaker":122,"num_words":46811,"start":28334,"end":28442},[46808,46810],{"text":46809,"start":28334,"end":28439},"bisschen, was Du im Studium meintest, ne, dazu hat's niemand gesagt, oder ich weiß nicht, vielleicht hat ja jemand gesagt, das schaffst Du nicht, eine Streamingplattform aufzubauen, aber so, das ist ja, die sich selbst zu beweisen, man kann es so, ne, also.",{"text":1787,"start":28439,"end":28442},44,{"sentences":46813,"speaker":514,"num_words":45449,"start":28442,"end":28525},[46814,46816,46818,46819,46821],{"text":46815,"start":28442,"end":28458},"Und da ist das Pattern, ja.",{"text":46817,"start":28458,"end":28472},"Ja, das zieht sich durch, ja.",{"text":938,"start":28475,"end":28476},{"text":46820,"start":28476,"end":28493},"Das war aber schon als als Kind so.",{"text":46822,"start":28493,"end":28525},"Also Fahrrad selber operiert, keine Ahnung, wie's geht, aber lass mal rausfinden.",{"sentences":46824,"speaker":514,"num_words":44879,"start":28528,"end":28713},[46825,46827,46829,46831,46833],{"text":46826,"start":28528,"end":28545},"Genau, und bei Joan ist das nicht.",{"text":46828,"start":28545,"end":28608},"Ich hab 'n Streaming davon gebaut und es gab auch riesen Riesenstress und viele, viele, auch freitags, nachts und samstags da gesessen teilweise.",{"text":46830,"start":28611,"end":28662},"Aber als wir gelauncht sind und dann 200 Leute im Raum hatten und live gegangen sind, das war heut schon sehr geil.",{"text":46832,"start":28662,"end":28684},"Also auch die Energie, die man dann sieht und so.",{"text":46834,"start":28684,"end":28713},"Und dann denk ich dann so, okay, dafür hab ich gearbeitet.",{"sentences":46836,"speaker":514,"num_words":46263,"start":28715,"end":28885},[46837,46839,46841,46843,46844],{"text":46838,"start":28715,"end":28756},"Und das halt schon 'n geiles Gefühl, wenn Du dann sagst, okay, das haben wir jetzt geschafft als Team.",{"text":46840,"start":28758,"end":28784},"Und dann müssen wir hinbekommen, 200 Leute oder über 200 Leute.",{"text":46842,"start":28786,"end":28836},"Das war ja auch nicht nur das Produkt, sondern auch Marketing dahinter und so weiter und Content und was da geil und was.",{"text":938,"start":28836,"end":28839},{"text":46845,"start":28842,"end":28885},"Und das halt dann live zu bekommen und zu sehen als Produkt und das ist schon ist schon sehr geil, ne.",{"sentences":46847,"speaker":143,"num_words":45335,"start":28887,"end":28897},[46848],{"text":46849,"start":28887,"end":28897},"Und heute bin ich Kunde.",{"sentences":46851,"speaker":514,"num_words":44739,"start":28899,"end":28910},[46852,46854],{"text":46853,"start":28899,"end":28904},"Ja, ja.",{"text":46855,"start":28904,"end":28910},"Sehr schön.",{"sentences":46857,"speaker":143,"num_words":46811,"start":28915,"end":29021},[46858,46859,46861,46863,46865],{"text":28919,"start":28915,"end":28916},{"text":46860,"start":28922,"end":28935},"Freak uns vielleicht zum nächsten Job.",{"text":46862,"start":28935,"end":28965},"Das ist der einzige in deinem Lebenslauf, wo mir die Company nichts sagt.",{"text":46864,"start":28968,"end":29011},"Sonst waren ja alles, glaub ich, recht bekannte Dinge, die wir hatten von hier und Skype und so weiter.",{"text":46866,"start":29011,"end":29021},"Klarna auch natürlich irgendwie noch.",{"sentences":46868,"speaker":143,"num_words":46532,"start":29023,"end":29096},[46869,46871,46872,46873,46875],{"text":46870,"start":29023,"end":29076},"Ich weiß gar nicht, ich ich bin sogar unsicher, wie ich ausspreche einfach, weil's 2 n sind, aber, nee, wie heißt das?",{"text":29080,"start":29076,"end":29079},{"text":29084,"start":29079,"end":29082},{"text":46874,"start":29082,"end":29090},"Sender, genau.",{"text":46876,"start":29090,"end":29096},"Sender einfach.",{"sentences":46878,"speaker":143,"num_words":122,"start":29096,"end":29098},[46879],{"text":1728,"start":29096,"end":29098},{"sentences":46881,"speaker":514,"num_words":44932,"start":29098,"end":29108},[46882],{"text":46883,"start":29098,"end":29108},"Logistik Company, ja.",{"sentences":46885,"speaker":143,"num_words":44854,"start":29108,"end":29123},[46886,46888],{"text":46887,"start":29108,"end":29116},"Logistik Company, okay.",{"text":46889,"start":29116,"end":29123},"Was waren da",{"sentences":46891,"speaker":122,"num_words":46081,"start":29125,"end":29142},[46892,46894],{"text":46893,"start":29125,"end":29138},"Welche Challenge hast Du da gesucht?",{"text":1787,"start":29141,"end":29142},{"sentences":46896,"speaker":514,"num_words":45305,"start":29144,"end":29243},[46897,46898,46900,46902,46904],{"text":1787,"start":29144,"end":29145},{"text":46899,"start":29148,"end":29193},"Die die, also auch wir sind wieder persönlich motiviert, dass wir nach Berlin zurück wollten wie in meiner Familie.",{"text":46901,"start":29193,"end":29208},"Meine Familie kommt ursprünglich aus Berlin.",{"text":46903,"start":29211,"end":29239},"Und Sender war halt interessant, also ganz kurz zu Join und ProSieben.",{"text":1618,"start":29242,"end":29243},{"sentences":46906,"speaker":514,"num_words":45560,"start":29246,"end":29409},[46907,46909,46911,46913,46915],{"text":46908,"start":29246,"end":29306},"Nach dem Launch war auch relativ klar, dass es eben wieder zurückgeht Richtung ProSieben und des Join Bancher, also ja wahrscheinlich aufgelöst wird.",{"text":46910,"start":29308,"end":29340},"War dann nicht mehr so spannend, weil das dann auch Corporate wohl und so weiter.",{"text":46912,"start":29340,"end":29371},"Gab's die ersten Einflüsse von der ProSieben in das Produkt und so was.",{"text":46914,"start":29371,"end":29383},"Fand ich nicht so prickelnd.",{"text":46916,"start":29386,"end":29409},"Genau, und Sender war halt 'n VC Fundet Start-up.",{"sentences":46918,"speaker":514,"num_words":46263,"start":29409,"end":29607},[46919,46921,46923,46925,46926],{"text":46920,"start":29409,"end":29476},"Das war so das, na gut, Clan aber auch VC Fundet, aber schon noch mal eine andere andere Level und Sender war halt auch eher und kleiner.",{"text":46922,"start":29479,"end":29533},"Bei Sender ging's darum halt 'n superkleines Tech Team, so wie alt, 30 Leute oder so was, das halt auszubauen, ne.",{"text":46924,"start":29533,"end":29600},"Also sie hatten Sender klassisch angefangen als Plattform mit wenig Tech dahinter, klassisches Junior Tech Team, die halt eine Plattform gebaut haben auf Python damals.",{"text":1618,"start":29600,"end":29603},{"text":1618,"start":29606,"end":29607},{"sentences":46928,"speaker":514,"num_words":45264,"start":29607,"end":29761},[46929,46931,46933,46935,46937],{"text":46930,"start":29607,"end":29630},"Und die Plattform war aber, musste halt komplett umgebaut werden.",{"text":46932,"start":29630,"end":29665},"Also war nicht mehr skalierbar, hat die Business Recoints nicht erfüllt und so weiter.",{"text":46934,"start":29665,"end":29718},"Und da ging's halt darum, a, neue Plattformen aufzubauen und b, halt das Team auszubauen, halt einfach das Business da besser zu unterstützen.",{"text":46936,"start":29721,"end":29741},"Das war interessant und die waren extrem interessant.",{"text":46938,"start":29741,"end":29761},"Also da war in Nutthaka, war superspannend.",{"sentences":46940,"speaker":514,"num_words":46606,"start":29765,"end":29827},[46941,46943,46944,46946,46948],{"text":46942,"start":29765,"end":29793},"Die haben mich im Interviewprozess eingeladen zum Dinner mit Familie.",{"text":1618,"start":29793,"end":29795},{"text":46945,"start":29795,"end":29805},"Hatte ich so ordentlich.",{"text":46947,"start":29808,"end":29815},"War aber echt geil.",{"text":46949,"start":29815,"end":29827},"Also sehr, sehr nette Leute.",{"sentences":46951,"speaker":514,"num_words":45718,"start":29829,"end":29909},[46952,46954,46956,46958,46960],{"text":46953,"start":29829,"end":29845},"Genau, das haben mich son bisschen überzeugt.",{"text":46955,"start":29848,"end":29861},"Auch lange lange gehadert, ne.",{"text":46957,"start":29861,"end":29875},"Und ich's machen sogar nicht, aber.",{"text":46959,"start":29879,"end":29900},"David ist auch sehr, sehr hartnäckig, was das angeht.",{"text":46961,"start":29900,"end":29909},"Gibt Licht auf.",{"sentences":46963,"speaker":122,"num_words":44782,"start":29909,"end":29960},[46964,46966],{"text":46965,"start":29909,"end":29954},"Das heißt, der ist der Interviewprozess wirklich ein 1 Schritte war, wirklich mit Familie zum Dinner kommen oder?",{"text":46967,"start":29954,"end":29960},"Da hab",{"sentences":46969,"speaker":514,"num_words":45530,"start":29960,"end":30015},[46970],{"text":46971,"start":29960,"end":30015},"ich noch Ja, also auch witzige Story, Familie mit meiner, also meine Frau, meine Tochter damals und mein Hund.",{"sentences":46973,"speaker":122,"num_words":122,"start":30018,"end":30019},[46974],{"text":1618,"start":30018,"end":30019},{"sentences":46976,"speaker":514,"num_words":45881,"start":30019,"end":30044},[46977],{"text":46978,"start":30019,"end":30044},"Und der hat einen Haufen gemacht im Davids Wohnzimmer.",{"sentences":46980,"speaker":122,"num_words":45530,"start":30047,"end":30097},[46981,46983,46985,46987],{"text":46982,"start":30047,"end":30058},"Ah, zum Dinner zu Hause?",{"text":46984,"start":30058,"end":30079},"Ich dacht ja den Ball im Restaurant.",{"text":46986,"start":30079,"end":30090},"Ihr wart bei ihm.",{"text":46988,"start":30090,"end":30097},"Nee, zu Hause",{"sentences":46990,"speaker":514,"num_words":45382,"start":30097,"end":30181},[46991,46993,46995,46996,46998],{"text":46992,"start":30097,"end":30103},"bei denen.",{"text":46994,"start":30103,"end":30126},"Also David ist halb Italiener, kocht sehr gerne.",{"text":1618,"start":30126,"end":30129},{"text":46997,"start":30129,"end":30139},"Kocht doch sehr gut.",{"text":46999,"start":30141,"end":30181},"Und David hat damals noch zusammen gewohnt mit den anderen 2 Gründern, den Namen jetzt vergessen.",{"sentences":47001,"speaker":514,"num_words":45329,"start":30181,"end":30251},[47002,47004,47006,47008],{"text":47003,"start":30181,"end":30190},"Na ja, egal.",{"text":47005,"start":30193,"end":30236},"Also die haben zu dritt gewohnt in 1 Wohnung und haben mich halt zum Dinner eingeladen und haben selber gekocht.",{"text":47007,"start":30239,"end":30243},"Sehr lecker.",{"text":47009,"start":30247,"end":30251},"Also genau.",{"sentences":47011,"speaker":122,"num_words":45496,"start":30254,"end":30293},[47012],{"text":47013,"start":30254,"end":30293},"Auf jeden Fall 'n guter Ort, den potenziellen Kandidaten zu überzeugen so, würd ich sagen.",{"sentences":47015,"speaker":514,"num_words":44733,"start":30296,"end":30353},[47016,47017,47019,47021],{"text":44913,"start":30296,"end":30300},{"text":47018,"start":30300,"end":30327},"Nee, ist auch sehr nett halt, rauszufinden, ob man zusammenpasst Ja.",{"text":47020,"start":30329,"end":30338},"Aus persönlicher Ebene.",{"text":47022,"start":30338,"end":30353},"Und ja, es war halt sehr gut.",{"sentences":47024,"speaker":143,"num_words":514,"start":30355,"end":30359},[47025],{"text":47026,"start":30355,"end":30359},"Und genau.",{"sentences":47028,"speaker":122,"num_words":47035,"start":30359,"end":30568},[47029,47031,47033],{"text":47030,"start":30359,"end":30412},"Und was habt ihr damals entschieden, wie wie der der, was war das für eine Technologie oder wie kam die Entscheidung zustande?",{"text":47032,"start":30412,"end":30527},"Also ich hab ja jetzt mal so anhand der Homepage und so was gedacht, dass also Du hast ja schon gemeint so, Logistik so, also dass es eher so die Plattform geht, wie man bestimmte Logistikunternehmen mit irgendwie Orten a nach b miteinander verbindet, so.",{"text":47034,"start":30527,"end":30568},"Also das ist sone Art von Plattform, das Logistikunternehmen nutzen, ihre Routen zu planen vielleicht oder so.",84,{"sentences":47037,"speaker":514,"num_words":45523,"start":30568,"end":30691},[47038,47040,47041,47043,47045],{"text":47039,"start":30568,"end":30579},"Ist eigentlich ähnlich wie Blacklane.",{"text":1618,"start":30581,"end":30582},{"text":47042,"start":30582,"end":30618},"Also ist 'n Marktplatz im oder oder 'n ja, too Site Marketplace.",{"text":47044,"start":30622,"end":30678},"Du hast auf der einen Seite Shipper, das ist eine, das kann eine Coca Cola sein oder eine BMW oder was auch immer.",{"text":47046,"start":30678,"end":30691},"Die wollen das Waren verschicken.",{"sentences":47048,"speaker":514,"num_words":47058,"start":30691,"end":30788},[47049,47051,47053,47054,47056],{"text":47050,"start":30691,"end":30724},"Und auf der anderen Seite hast Du 'n relativ fragmentierten Carrier Markt.",{"text":47052,"start":30724,"end":30730},"Carrier halt.",{"text":1618,"start":30732,"end":30733},{"text":47055,"start":30736,"end":30749},"Und der sehr, sehr fragmentiert.",{"text":47057,"start":30752,"end":30788},"Das heißt, Du hast halt viele kleine so, ich habe so einen Truck, 2 Trucks.",35,{"sentences":47060,"speaker":514,"num_words":45413,"start":30788,"end":31028},[47061,47063,47065,47067,47069],{"text":47062,"start":30788,"end":30817},"Gibt halt auch große, wenn wir mit 20, 50 Trucks.",{"text":47064,"start":30817,"end":30864},"Aber die ist eigentlich, diesen fragmentierten Carrier Markt mit Shippern zusammenzuräumen und diese Plattform dafür bereitzustellen.",{"text":47066,"start":30867,"end":30944},"Das heißt, Du hast auf der einen Seite 'n Marktplatz für Carrier und auf der anderen Seite halt 'n, die man halt verschiedene Interfaces, wie Shipper halt ihre ihre Request da reinschicken.",{"text":47068,"start":30948,"end":31011},"Genau, und das war halt eine Plattform, basierend auf Python und das haben wir halt ausgebaut, mehr Richtung serviceorientiert, shipper Portal rausgezogen, Carrier Portal rausgezogen.",{"text":47070,"start":31015,"end":31028},"Dazwischen nur halt so Dispatchingangime.",{"sentences":47072,"speaker":514,"num_words":44905,"start":31032,"end":31148},[47073,47075,47077,47079,47081],{"text":47074,"start":31032,"end":31066},"Und das halt versucht aus, ne, halt zu friemeln, damit das hörlehbar wird, ne.",{"text":47076,"start":31066,"end":31083},"Also was die Softwareentwicklung auch angeht, ne.",{"text":47078,"start":31083,"end":31129},"Es halt 'n kleines Team, der an dem an dem Code gearbeitet und das skaliert halt immer nicht mehr, ne.",{"text":47080,"start":31131,"end":31144},"Man hat halt das Business ausgebremst.",{"text":1787,"start":31147,"end":31148},{"sentences":47083,"speaker":514,"num_words":45305,"start":31148,"end":31252},[47084,47086,47088,47090,47092],{"text":47085,"start":31148,"end":31168},"Und dann geht's ging's halt auch Sachen zu automatisieren.",{"text":47087,"start":31168,"end":31187},"Das hat 'n sehr operatives Business, ne.",{"text":47089,"start":31187,"end":31240},"Guck BMW, musst irgendwie Teile angeliefert bekommen im Freitagabend, weil sonst das Band steht und Du hast kein Carrier.",{"text":47091,"start":31244,"end":31249},"Was machst Du?",{"text":1787,"start":31249,"end":31252},{"sentences":47094,"speaker":514,"num_words":45544,"start":31252,"end":31319},[47095,47097,47098,47099,47101],{"text":47096,"start":31252,"end":31266},"Und damit ist halt sehr operativ.",{"text":31271,"start":31269,"end":31270},{"text":1787,"start":31273,"end":31274},{"text":47100,"start":31274,"end":31308},"Und solche Sachen halt versuchen, möglichst zu automatisieren, das war so die Challenge.",{"text":47102,"start":31310,"end":31319},"Also klassisches operatives Business.",{"sentences":47104,"speaker":514,"num_words":122,"start":31321,"end":31322},[47105],{"text":938,"start":31321,"end":31322},{"sentences":47107,"speaker":122,"num_words":45151,"start":31322,"end":31480},[47108,47110,47112,47114],{"text":47109,"start":31322,"end":31369},"Obwohl da 'n guter Fund, mit dem ich kurz drum gewohnt hab, der arbeitet für eine Helikopterfirma.",{"text":47111,"start":31372,"end":31408},"Das ist sind sind das die typischen Use Case, wo die Helikopter rausgeholt werden.",{"text":47113,"start":31408,"end":31477},"Also das, die fliegen auch sehr häufig für für ja, so Automobilzuliefer und so, als Bänder, bevor Bänder stehen bleiben, geht der Heli in die Luft.",{"text":1787,"start":31477,"end":31480},{"sentences":47116,"speaker":514,"num_words":44905,"start":31480,"end":31612},[47117,47119,47121,47123,47125],{"text":47118,"start":31480,"end":31494},"Ist sehr, sehr teuer, ne.",{"text":47120,"start":31496,"end":31519},"Ja, nee, Automobilindustrie ist natürlich sehr, sehr tough.",{"text":47122,"start":31523,"end":31575},"Auch wenn Du als Carrier da 10, 15 Uhr zu spät bist, dann müssen die teilweise von Freitag auf bis auf Montagmorgen warten.",{"text":47124,"start":31575,"end":31592},"Nur lassen die sich da komplett.",{"text":47126,"start":31596,"end":31612},"Weil ey, sorry, dann Slot ist.",{"sentences":47128,"speaker":514,"num_words":45776,"start":31612,"end":31739},[47129,47131,47133,47135,47137],{"text":47130,"start":31612,"end":31620},"Ach so.",{"text":47132,"start":31623,"end":31636},"Kommen in 2 Tagen wieder.",{"text":47134,"start":31636,"end":31647},"Das ist der nächste Slot.",{"text":47136,"start":31650,"end":31728},"Wenn's nicht kritisch ist, wenn kritisch ist natürlich, dann entladen sie, aber ist teilweise so, dass die dann wirklich Trucker da stehen lassen 2 Tage vorm Gate und die müssen nur einfach warten.",{"text":47138,"start":31730,"end":31739},"Also recht toughes Business,",{"sentences":47140,"speaker":143,"num_words":44866,"start":31741,"end":31844},[47141,47142,47144],{"text":839,"start":31741,"end":31742},{"text":47143,"start":31742,"end":31820},"Und ist das irgendwie einen, hat das einen gewissen, ach, das richtige Wort, einen einen neuen Ansatz oder ist das eine Digitalisierung von Prozessen, die's vorhin nicht gab?",{"text":47145,"start":31820,"end":31844},"Oder ist das eine neue Produktkategorie, die das da",{"sentences":47147,"speaker":514,"num_words":45305,"start":31846,"end":31954},[47148,47149,47151,47152,47154],{"text":31849,"start":31846,"end":31847},{"text":47150,"start":31847,"end":31886},"Also einmal die Digitalisierung von Prozessen, aber eigentlich die Hauptchallenge ist Digitalisierung dieser Industrie.",{"text":1618,"start":31888,"end":31889},{"text":47153,"start":31892,"end":31917},"Und das ist, glaub ich, der Knackpunkt und die Schwierigkeit.",{"text":47155,"start":31920,"end":31954},"Das funktioniert auf der Seite, weil die meisten halt sich irgendwie terrain können.",{"sentences":47157,"speaker":122,"num_words":122,"start":31954,"end":31956},[47158],{"text":1618,"start":31954,"end":31956},{"sentences":47160,"speaker":514,"num_words":47171,"start":31956,"end":32238},[47161,47163,47165,47167,47169],{"text":47162,"start":31956,"end":32013},"Kannst Du mir dann 'n Webportal anbieten, wo Du deine deine oder halt oder halt oder was auch immer für Interfaces, ne.",{"text":47164,"start":32013,"end":32061},"Aber auf der Carrier Seite ist es halt schwierig, weil diese Trucker halt jetzt nicht sehr digital Natives sind, ne.",{"text":47166,"start":32061,"end":32133},"Also wir haben wir haben halt eine Ad gehabt, wir hatten eine Webseite, aber die haben das teilweise nicht genutzt, weil sie halt auch, also auch an die Dollesories.",{"text":47168,"start":32136,"end":32219},"Aber wenn Du mitm Carrie dich zusammensetzen und sagst und übers Internet redest, dann haben sie Angst vor dem Internet, weil sie Angst haben, dass ihre Bankdaten geklaut werden und solche Geschichten.",{"text":47170,"start":32221,"end":32238},"Also ganz seltsame Neigung Richtung Digitalisierung.",109,{"sentences":47173,"speaker":514,"num_words":45530,"start":32241,"end":32292},[47174,47176],{"text":47175,"start":32241,"end":32257},"Und da ist, glaub ich, der Hauptknapppunkt.",{"text":47177,"start":32260,"end":32292},"Wie wie bekommt man da die Kombination, son Umfeld Digitalisierung zu betreiben?",{"sentences":47179,"speaker":143,"num_words":709,"start":32295,"end":32442},[47180,47181,47183,47185,47187],{"text":24524,"start":32295,"end":32296},{"text":47182,"start":32299,"end":32360},"So Fabi, vielleicht sollten wir einfach, wenn wir, weißt Du, wenn wir mal sagen, Kim, wir können uns jetzt stressen und jetzt haben wir den Lebenslauf.",{"text":47184,"start":32360,"end":32379},"Ich mein, wir erfahren ja auch so viel.",{"text":47186,"start":32379,"end":32406},"Sind ja einfach super spannende Themen, die wir jetzt schon hatten.",{"text":47188,"start":32406,"end":32442},"Da müssen wir einfach vorher akzeptieren, dass dass dieser Part schon viel eingenommen hat, aber",{"sentences":47190,"speaker":514,"num_words":44854,"start":32444,"end":32458},[47191],{"text":47192,"start":32444,"end":32458},"auf jeden Fall war ja so",{"sentences":47194,"speaker":143,"num_words":45347,"start":32461,"end":32577},[47195,47197,47199,47201,47202],{"text":47196,"start":32461,"end":32470},"spannende Sachen schon dabei.",{"text":47198,"start":32473,"end":32552},"Trotzdem machen wir es noch komplett mit den Stationen, ja und vielleicht, also eine Fragestellung für deinen letzten, hab ich dann auf jeden Fall, der noch ein bisschen tiefer geht.",{"text":47200,"start":32552,"end":32566},"Das CTO bei Flink.",{"text":938,"start":32570,"end":32571},{"text":47026,"start":32571,"end":32577},{"sentences":47204,"speaker":143,"num_words":44733,"start":32580,"end":32641},[47205,47207,47208],{"text":47206,"start":32580,"end":32622},"Flink ist glaube ich so Supermarkt oder nicht Supermarkt Lebensmittelsachen bestellen innerhalb von wenigen Minuten da.",{"text":1787,"start":32625,"end":32626},{"text":47209,"start":32626,"end":32641},"So ist das davon ein bisschen.",{"sentences":47211,"speaker":514,"num_words":45530,"start":32644,"end":32696},[47212,47214,47216,47218],{"text":47213,"start":32644,"end":32654},"So war's am Anfang, ja.",{"text":47215,"start":32654,"end":32662},"Mittlerweile ist nicht mehr.",{"text":47217,"start":32662,"end":32677},"Wenige Minuten dabei, ja, genau.",{"text":47219,"start":32677,"end":32696},"Also online, Ghost Street, Illuvene.",{"sentences":47221,"speaker":122,"num_words":122,"start":32700,"end":32701},[47222],{"text":1618,"start":32700,"end":32701},{"sentences":47224,"speaker":514,"num_words":44733,"start":32704,"end":32763},[47225,47227],{"text":47226,"start":32704,"end":32721},"Als ich eingestiegen bin, war's unter 10 Minuten.",{"text":47228,"start":32721,"end":32763},"Ich weiß nicht, ob ich nach drinnen, das war so in Coronazeiten, Gorillas und Flink.",{"sentences":47230,"speaker":122,"num_words":45496,"start":32763,"end":32802},[47231,47232,47234,47236],{"text":938,"start":32763,"end":32766},{"text":47233,"start":32769,"end":32785},"Ach ja, nur in Großstädten so, oder?",{"text":47235,"start":32785,"end":32794},"Das ist die Genau.",{"text":47237,"start":32796,"end":32802},"Unter 10 Minuten.",{"sentences":47239,"speaker":514,"num_words":45305,"start":32804,"end":32897},[47240,47242,47244,47246,47248],{"text":47241,"start":32804,"end":32815},"Aber es war echt Hype.",{"text":47243,"start":32815,"end":32850},"Also ich, mich hatte Freunde und mich irgendwann mal, ja ey, das geht so nicht.",{"text":47245,"start":32850,"end":32859},"Wie macht ihr das?",{"text":47247,"start":32859,"end":32863},"8 Minuten.",{"text":47249,"start":32865,"end":32897},"Ich sitz hier beim Frühstück, mach mir 'n Kaffee und ihr seid da.",{"sentences":47251,"speaker":514,"num_words":45335,"start":32897,"end":32908},[47252,47254],{"text":47253,"start":32897,"end":32903},"Wie geht das?",{"text":47255,"start":32903,"end":32908},"Ja, und",{"sentences":47257,"speaker":122,"num_words":44932,"start":32908,"end":32915},[47258],{"text":47259,"start":32908,"end":32915},"wie geht das?",{"sentences":47261,"speaker":514,"num_words":44739,"start":32915,"end":32925},[47262],{"text":47263,"start":32915,"end":32925},"Weil das war so",{"sentences":47265,"speaker":122,"num_words":514,"start":32927,"end":32931},[47266],{"text":47267,"start":32927,"end":32931},"das war",{"sentences":47269,"speaker":514,"num_words":45382,"start":32931,"end":33014},[47270,47272,47274,47276,47278],{"text":47271,"start":32931,"end":32937},"so die.",{"text":47273,"start":32940,"end":32951},"Ist natürlich nicht bezahlbar, ne.",{"text":47275,"start":32951,"end":32963},"Ist halt komplettes Verlustgeschäft.",{"text":47277,"start":32967,"end":32998},"Von daher ist das jetzt eher zwischen 30 und 60 Minuten, glaub ich.",{"text":47279,"start":33000,"end":33014},"Aber ja, es war schon sehr cool.",{"sentences":47281,"speaker":122,"num_words":46532,"start":33016,"end":33076},[47282,47284,47286],{"text":47283,"start":33016,"end":33049},"Und was war halt mit welchem oder was war deine Challenge, als Du dahin bist?",{"text":47285,"start":33049,"end":33061},"Was war was war dein Job?",{"text":47287,"start":33061,"end":33076},"Was hat es zu tun bei Flink?",{"sentences":47289,"speaker":514,"num_words":45044,"start":33079,"end":33242},[47290,47292,47294,47296,47298],{"text":47291,"start":33079,"end":33089},"Bei Flink vielleicht dann CTO.",{"text":47293,"start":33089,"end":33152},"Also 1 der Co Founder Julian Dammes war der CPO, der Produktgemacht und 'n paar andere Themen, Marketing und so was, glaub ich.",{"text":47295,"start":33152,"end":33176},"Und ich war der CTO und hab da das Team ausgebaut.",{"text":47297,"start":33178,"end":33187},"Das war relativ am Anfang.",{"text":47299,"start":33191,"end":33242},"Link hatte angefangen mit 'ner Acquisition, die haben eine Company gekauft, die sone Art E-Commerce-Plattform hatten mit 'ner Mobile App.",{"sentences":47301,"speaker":514,"num_words":44905,"start":33245,"end":33368},[47302,47304,47306,47308,47310],{"text":47303,"start":33245,"end":33253},"Damit sind sie gestartet.",{"text":47305,"start":33256,"end":33267},"Das Team haben sie auch eingekauft.",{"text":47307,"start":33270,"end":33323},"Und das war relativ schnell klar, dass die Plattform eskaliert und relativ ungeeignet ist für das Businessmodell, was ich vorhin hatte.",{"text":47309,"start":33325,"end":33363},"Und bin dann eingestiegen und hat das Team dann ausgebaut, dann halt die Plattform neu aufgebaut.",{"text":1787,"start":33367,"end":33368},{"sentences":47312,"speaker":514,"num_words":45319,"start":33370,"end":33452},[47313,47315],{"text":47314,"start":33370,"end":33398},"Also ähnlich jetzt glaub ich bei Sender, nur halt anderes Business, ne.",{"text":47316,"start":33400,"end":33452},"Anderes Businessmodell dahinter und andere Challenges im Endeffekt vom Tag können wir halt Plattform umbauen und 'n Team ausbauen, ja.",{"sentences":47318,"speaker":122,"num_words":46366,"start":33455,"end":33534},[47319,47321,47322],{"text":47320,"start":33455,"end":33501},"Und gab's da irgendwie größere technologische Challenges an der Stelle oder war das dann am Ende Ja, ja.",{"text":33507,"start":33504,"end":33505},{"text":47323,"start":33509,"end":33534},"Was Nimm ich meinen, die die die Größe davon mit.",{"sentences":47325,"speaker":514,"num_words":45251,"start":33536,"end":33710},[47326,47328,47330,47332,47334],{"text":47327,"start":33536,"end":33594},"Ja, also ich glaub, die die Challenge war halt, Du hast 'n extrem stark wachsendes Business mit 'ner Lieferzeit von unter 10 Minuten damals.",{"text":47329,"start":33596,"end":33627},"Das heißt, wenn's irgendwo Probleme gibt, schlägt sich das direkt auf deine Lieferzeit aus, ne.",{"text":47331,"start":33627,"end":33644},"Du hast halt keine Zeit für Fehler.",{"text":47333,"start":33647,"end":33679},"Die das Problem war halt, superschnell wachsendes Start-up mit 'ner sehr bei Plattform.",{"text":47335,"start":33681,"end":33710},"Also denk jetzt einmal noch rum, Plattformen stabilisieren, das ist halt verfügbar.",{"sentences":47337,"speaker":514,"num_words":45151,"start":33710,"end":33873},[47338,47340,47342,47344,47346],{"text":47339,"start":33710,"end":33767},"Wir hatten teilweise zu Peeadszeiten nur eine Stunde Outage, ne, dass halt dann deine Formen da hinter dir stehen.",{"text":47341,"start":33767,"end":33790},"Und weil ich verlier grad irgendwie 30000 Euro.",{"text":47343,"start":33793,"end":33801},"Was macht ihr da?",{"text":47345,"start":33804,"end":33815},"Das war halt eine interessante Challenge.",{"text":47347,"start":33817,"end":33873},"Und halt generell die Funktionalität der Plattformen, weil Flink, Flinks Businessmodell basiert halt darauf, dass Du Hubs hast in den Städten.",{"sentences":47349,"speaker":514,"num_words":45957,"start":33873,"end":33964},[47350,47352,47354,47355,47357],{"text":47351,"start":33873,"end":33892},"Also Du hast so diese Darkstores, ne.",{"text":47353,"start":33892,"end":33913},"Und diese Darkstores ist in 'ner kleinen Lager.",{"text":1618,"start":33913,"end":33916},{"text":47356,"start":33916,"end":33932},"Aber Du hast halt sehr viele davon.",{"text":47358,"start":33932,"end":33964},"Da hast Du 'nem begrenzten Einzugskreis, wo Du liefern kannst aufgrund der Lieferzeit.",{"sentences":47360,"speaker":514,"num_words":47371,"start":33964,"end":34306},[47361,47363,47365,47367,47369],{"text":47362,"start":33964,"end":33994},"Und da gibt's jetzt nicht unbedingt eine Standard E-Commerce-Plattform, wie er's kann.",{"text":47364,"start":33994,"end":34077},"Also sie haben dann Commerce Tools verwendet als Standard Order Plattform, aber wir mussten halt alles drum rum bauen, was halt dafür sorgt, dass Du in diesem in diesem Modell liefern kannst.",{"text":47366,"start":34080,"end":34151},"Und die Haupt Challenge war dann halt, na ja, diese, wir liefern ein Order mit einem Fahrer, der liefert die aus, kommt dann zurück, funktioniert halt nicht, was die Kosten angeht.",{"text":47368,"start":34151,"end":34270},"Das heißt, Du musst halt irgendwann anfangen zu optimieren, zu sagen, okay, wir wandeln jetzt mal 2 Orders zusammen, dann nimmt der Fahrer 2 Orders mit, die irgendwie zusammenpassen, was jetzt, glaub ich, mittlerweile besteht bei 6 oder so was ist, wenn man sich die Fahrräder anschaut von flink.",{"text":47370,"start":34274,"end":34306},"Und diese Optimierung, das wird halt irgendwann sehr spannend und auch sehr schwierig, ne.",138,{"sentences":47373,"speaker":514,"num_words":45251,"start":34306,"end":34489},[47374,47376,47378,47380,47382],{"text":47375,"start":34306,"end":34317},"Das so Delivery Optimierung.",{"text":47377,"start":34321,"end":34388},"Und dann hast Du halt die Optimierung, was die Warehouses angeht, dass Du halt kein keine keine keinen hast, ne, was grade Fischprodukte angeht und so weiter.",{"text":47379,"start":34388,"end":34392},"Also ganze.",{"text":47381,"start":34395,"end":34477},"Wie viel Bananen brauch ich an 'nem Samstag in der Woche von heute, weil wir die Bestellung aufgeben müssen und Du willst ja nicht die Bananen wegschmeißen am Samstag, weil sie nicht verkauft wurden.",{"text":47383,"start":34480,"end":34489},"Das ist halt extrem.",{"sentences":47385,"speaker":514,"num_words":45393,"start":34492,"end":34556},[47386],{"text":47387,"start":34492,"end":34556},"Grade in sonem stark wachsenden Business, wo Du halt wenig historische Daten hast, halt starkes Wachstum hast, da halt Forecastmodell aufbauen, ist halt schon sehr schwierig.",{"sentences":47389,"speaker":122,"num_words":47035,"start":34556,"end":34756},[47390,47391],{"text":34561,"start":34556,"end":34559},{"text":47392,"start":34563,"end":34756},"Davor wir vielleicht gleich zu Blackline kommen, was ich mich dir jetzt da frage, also wir jetzt mal mit deinem am Anfang auch gesagt, so Anspruch darin, bei den Dingen im Detail drin zu sein und irgendwie die richtigen Fragen stellen zu können, mir jetzt vorzustellen, okay, Du hast bestimmt ein paar Dinge davon dann auch schon bei Sender gelernt, was Du bei Flink irgendwie anwenden konntest, weil's irgendwie Logistik vielleicht 'n paar ähnliche Challenges hat, wie es dann auch Flink an der",{"sentences":47394,"speaker":514,"num_words":44932,"start":34756,"end":34764},[47395],{"text":47396,"start":34756,"end":34764},"Stelle hat, aber",{"sentences":47398,"speaker":122,"num_words":47409,"start":34764,"end":34989},[47399,47401,47403,47405,47407],{"text":47400,"start":34764,"end":34791},"wo Du auch meintest, so, da gibt's ja keine Standardcommerce Lösung.",{"text":47402,"start":34791,"end":34847},"Ihr habt aber trotzdem eine genutzt so und wie war's jetzt auch, also Flink waren's jetzt knapp 2 Jahre, wo Du da bist so.",{"text":47404,"start":34847,"end":34905},"Was hast Du getan, als Du reinkamst, in diesen Details so firm zu sein, dass Du da ausreichend mitdiskutieren kannst?",{"text":47406,"start":34905,"end":34932},"Also wie ist das so, wenn Du in son neue auch Produkt?",{"text":47408,"start":34932,"end":34989},"Ist ja nicht so, dass Du dass alles genau aufeinander aufgebaut hat und immer die gleiche Domäne war, in der Du dich befunden hast.",91,{"sentences":47411,"speaker":514,"num_words":45020,"start":34991,"end":35120},[47412,47414,47416,47418,47420],{"text":47413,"start":34991,"end":35036},"Ja, ich glaub, Du Du hast halt ein ein oder 2 Probleme, auf die Du dich fokussierst, ne.",{"text":47415,"start":35036,"end":35076},"Bei bei Flink, als ich reingekommen bin, war sie noch, die haben damals den komplett neu gebaut.",{"text":47417,"start":35078,"end":35101},"Und der hat den kompletten Produktkatalog beim Start runtergeladen.",{"text":47419,"start":35101,"end":35117},"Das waren 5 Megagmal Jason.",{"text":1618,"start":35117,"end":35120},{"sentences":47422,"speaker":514,"num_words":46396,"start":35120,"end":35229},[47423,47425,47426,47428,47430],{"text":47424,"start":35120,"end":35166},"Und wenn Du dann eine Produktsuche gemacht hast, dann warst Du eine Expression auf diesem Jason.",{"text":1618,"start":35166,"end":35169},{"text":47427,"start":35169,"end":35200},"Wenn Du also nach Eiscreme gesucht hast, hast Du teilweise Windeln eingezahlt.",{"text":47429,"start":35203,"end":35209},"Warum auch immer?",{"text":47431,"start":35209,"end":35229},"Das hast irgendwie, das wär keine Suche, ja.",{"sentences":47433,"speaker":514,"num_words":45393,"start":35231,"end":35297},[47434,47436,47437,47439,47441],{"text":47435,"start":35231,"end":35262},"Also okay, das müssen wir lösen, weil das ist irgendwie das größte Problem.",{"text":1618,"start":35262,"end":35265},{"text":47438,"start":35265,"end":35275},"Was können wir machen?",{"text":47440,"start":35278,"end":35282},"Kaufen, bauen?",{"text":47442,"start":35286,"end":35297},"Und dann fokussierst Du dich darauf.",{"sentences":47444,"speaker":514,"num_words":45020,"start":35297,"end":35424},[47445,47447,47449,47451,47453],{"text":47446,"start":35297,"end":35342},"Und dann gehst halt rein und sagst, okay, dann haben wir damals Algolia genutzt als Search Engine.",{"text":47448,"start":35342,"end":35366},"Der sagt, kaufen wir jetzt und dann löst Du das Problem.",{"text":47450,"start":35368,"end":35379},"Das war das nächste Problem.",{"text":47452,"start":35379,"end":35409},"Kunden können ihre Kreditkartendaten nicht absprechen, weil wir's nicht gebaut haben.",{"text":47454,"start":35409,"end":35424},"Okay, dann gehst Du da rein.",{"sentences":47456,"speaker":514,"num_words":47467,"start":35427,"end":35594},[47457,47459,47461,47463,47465],{"text":47458,"start":35427,"end":35474},"Also gehst halt, Du warst ja, glaub ich, 'n sehr guten, der versteht, was sind so die Hauptprioritäten.",{"text":47460,"start":35478,"end":35493},"Und auf die fokussierst Du dich dann, ne.",{"text":47462,"start":35493,"end":35506},"Und dann gehst Du relativ rein.",{"text":47464,"start":35506,"end":35540},"Und dann gibt's halt Team, wo Du weißt, okay, das Team ist komplett on top, ne.",{"text":47466,"start":35540,"end":35594},"Und dann siehst Du halt, okay, Teams strugglen, bestimmt lösen, gehen in die falsche Richtung und da gehst Du halt tiefer rein.",70,{"sentences":47469,"speaker":122,"num_words":44932,"start":35594,"end":35602},[47470],{"text":47471,"start":35594,"end":35602},"Das heißt Da",{"sentences":47473,"speaker":514,"num_words":46081,"start":35602,"end":35621},[47474],{"text":47475,"start":35602,"end":35621},"kann sie nicht überall tief dran sein.",{"sentences":47477,"speaker":143,"num_words":514,"start":35621,"end":35626},[47478],{"text":47479,"start":35621,"end":35626},"Das heißt",{"sentences":47481,"speaker":122,"num_words":44794,"start":35626,"end":35818},[47482,47484,47486],{"text":47483,"start":35626,"end":35692},"aber in sonem auch so grade Start up mäßigen Umfeld steht dann schon so vor, dass im Endeffekt so Du super eng mit dem CPO da zusammenarbeit ist.",{"text":47485,"start":35692,"end":35772},"Im Endeffekt son bisschen ist so CPO hat eine Vorstellung, Du bist dafür zuständig, die Probleme, die in dieser zwischen dieser Vorstellung und der Umsetzung liegen, einfach aus dem Weg zu räumen so.",{"text":47487,"start":35772,"end":35818},"Und dann damit hast Du auch son bisschen so, weil dann ist noch relativ klar, was dein nächstes Battle ist.",{"sentences":47489,"speaker":514,"num_words":45413,"start":35820,"end":36041},[47490,47491,47493,47495,47497],{"text":1787,"start":35820,"end":35821},{"text":47492,"start":35821,"end":35886},"Also versuchst halt irgendwie eine pragmatische Lösung zu finden, ne, für die Produktprobleme, die wir haben oder die die Themen, die wir angehen müssen als Nächstes.",{"text":47494,"start":35889,"end":35949},"Und dann, was ist 'n pragmatische, schnelle Lösung und was ist eine langfristige, sinnvolle Lösung, ne, und da irgendwo dann die Brand zu finden.",{"text":47496,"start":35952,"end":36005},"Und da hilft es dann halt, 'n guten CPO zu haben, der weiß, wie man Sachen priorisiert, worauf Fokus uns fokussieren müssen.",{"text":47498,"start":36005,"end":36041},"Und dann kannst Du dich als CTO halt auf die auf die Implementierung fokussieren, ne.",{"sentences":47500,"speaker":514,"num_words":45881,"start":36041,"end":36063},[47501],{"text":47502,"start":36041,"end":36063},"Und auf die Teams halt, Teamset-up und so weiter.",{"sentences":47504,"speaker":122,"num_words":45195,"start":36063,"end":36233},[47505,47507,47508,47510,47512],{"text":47506,"start":36063,"end":36101},"Das heißt, bringt jetzt eigentlich dazu, Du brauchst 'n guten CPO, jetzt bist Du ja beides.",{"text":1787,"start":36104,"end":36105},{"text":47509,"start":36105,"end":36134},"Das heißt, Du entscheidest, welche welche welcher Battle als Nächstes bevorsteht.",{"text":47511,"start":36134,"end":36218},"Erzähl uns doch mal was zu Blacklan und deinem aktuellen deiner aktuellen Firma, bei dem Du bist, was was genau ihr macht und was Du da tust und was deine Rolle vielleicht anders ist Ja.",{"text":47513,"start":36220,"end":36233},"Dann zieht die O-Roll davor.",{"sentences":47515,"speaker":514,"num_words":47525,"start":36236,"end":36409},[47516,47517,47519,47521,47523],{"text":938,"start":36236,"end":36237},{"text":47518,"start":36240,"end":36263},"Bei, also Blacklane, ähnliche Problemstellung wie bei Sender.",{"text":47520,"start":36266,"end":36308},"Grob gesagt, Du hast auf der einen Seite demand, Leute, die einen Chauffeur Service suchen.",{"text":47522,"start":36311,"end":36389},"Und auf der anderen Seite hast Du halt 'n recht frenmentierten Markt mit entweder Einzelleuten, die also einzelne Chauffeurre oder sogenannte LSPs nennt sich das, Local Service Provider.",{"text":47524,"start":36389,"end":36409},"Das sind so kleinere Chauffeur Companys, ne.",59,{"sentences":47527,"speaker":514,"num_words":45449,"start":36409,"end":36493},[47528,47530,47532],{"text":47529,"start":36409,"end":36447},"Die haben ja nur 3, 4, 5 Autos, manche auch größer, die haben 20, 50 Autos.",{"text":47531,"start":36450,"end":36472},"Und Blacklain versucht die beiden halt in Anführungsstrichen zusammenzubringen.",{"text":47533,"start":36475,"end":36493},"Das ist so aus 'ner technischen Sicht, ne.",{"sentences":47535,"speaker":122,"num_words":514,"start":36493,"end":36498},[47536],{"text":47537,"start":36493,"end":36498},"Was ist?",{"sentences":47539,"speaker":514,"num_words":514,"start":36498,"end":36505},[47540,47541],{"text":938,"start":36498,"end":36501},{"text":5411,"start":36504,"end":36505},{"sentences":47543,"speaker":143,"num_words":45881,"start":36505,"end":36530},[47544],{"text":47545,"start":36505,"end":36530},"sind denn die Definition 1 Chauffeurs an der Stelle?",{"sentences":47547,"speaker":514,"num_words":45507,"start":36533,"end":36644},[47548],{"text":47549,"start":36533,"end":36644},"Chauffeur ist halt, dass Du vergleichbar mit 'nem über oder über Premium heißt das, glaub ich, in Deutschland, aber noch mal eine Ebene drüber, was für die Person angeht, die durch die Gegend färbt, dass die einfach die, der Service, den Du erfährst.",{"sentences":47551,"speaker":143,"num_words":47058,"start":36644,"end":36731},[47552],{"text":47553,"start":36644,"end":36731},"Glaub ich ich will von a nach b fahren und also es ist immer noch 'n Fachfahrer von b und nicht, ich hol mir einen Fahrer für 8 Stunden und hab den zu meiner Verfügung.",{"sentences":47555,"speaker":514,"num_words":45649,"start":36731,"end":36780},[47556,47558],{"text":47557,"start":36731,"end":36769},"Also entweder willst Du von a nach b fahren oder Du willst für eine bestimmte Zeit fahren.",{"text":47559,"start":36769,"end":36780},"Das sind so die 2",{"sentences":47561,"speaker":143,"num_words":45335,"start":36782,"end":36794},[47562],{"text":47563,"start":36782,"end":36794},"Okay, es gibt beide so",{"sentences":47565,"speaker":514,"num_words":47058,"start":36794,"end":36902},[47566,47568,47569,47571,47573],{"text":47567,"start":36794,"end":36811},"Phoenix Modi, die wir haben.",{"text":1618,"start":36811,"end":36813},{"text":47570,"start":36815,"end":36838},"Und das Ganze halt mit 'nem Premium Auto, ne.",{"text":47572,"start":36838,"end":36882},"Es ist so E-Klasse oder S-Klasse oder Fünfersiebener BMW mit 'nem entsprechend geschulten Chauffeur.",{"text":47574,"start":36886,"end":36902},"Also nicht, sondern trainiert auf Service.",{"sentences":47576,"speaker":514,"num_words":670,"start":36905,"end":37053},[47577,47579,47581],{"text":47578,"start":36905,"end":36986},"Also vergleichbar mit kannst 'n Dreistelligen Hotel buchen oder irgendwas kalt und wenn Du jetzt kalt und merkst Du halt, okay, die Leute sind anders geschult, die ganze Umgebung ist anders.",{"text":47580,"start":36986,"end":37023},"Und den Anspruch haben wir halt, dass wir entsprechendes Servicelevel anbieten mit unseren Chauffeuren.",{"text":47582,"start":37027,"end":37053},"Nicht nur das Auto, sondern halt der gesamte Service, den Du bekommst.",{"sentences":47584,"speaker":143,"num_words":47587,"start":37056,"end":37075},[47585],{"text":47586,"start":37056,"end":37075},"Gibt's schon 'n bisschen länger Blacklane auch, oder?",8,{"sentences":47589,"speaker":514,"num_words":44854,"start":37077,"end":37090},[47590],{"text":47591,"start":37077,"end":37090},"Ja, 14 Jahre jetzt, glaub ich.",{"sentences":47593,"speaker":143,"num_words":46542,"start":37090,"end":37201},[47594,47595,47597,47598,47600],{"text":1728,"start":37090,"end":37092},{"text":47596,"start":37092,"end":37133},"Ich meine mal in irgend soner wahrscheinlich noch Start up Phase, wo sie viele Gutscheine vergeben haben.",{"text":938,"start":37135,"end":37136},{"text":47599,"start":37139,"end":37198},"Bin ich nämlich mal von von Bad Neuheim nach Frankfurt als irgendein Zug, ich wohn mit Blacklane, nach Hause gefahren damals, ja.",{"text":938,"start":37200,"end":37201},{"sentences":47602,"speaker":143,"num_words":122,"start":37201,"end":37204},[47603],{"text":1728,"start":37201,"end":37204},{"sentences":47605,"speaker":514,"num_words":44866,"start":37204,"end":37301},[47606,47608,47609,47610,47612],{"text":47607,"start":37204,"end":37219},"Nee, ist schon 'n bisschen länger unterwegs.",{"text":938,"start":37219,"end":37222},{"text":44777,"start":37225,"end":37229},{"text":47611,"start":37231,"end":37246},"Genau, also wir bieten Chauffeur Services an.",{"text":47613,"start":37246,"end":37301},"Das ist unser Produkt, was wir anbieten global in 50 Märkten, was, glaub ich, son bisschen Alleinstellungsmerkmal ist von 'nem Blacklinen.",{"sentences":47615,"speaker":514,"num_words":45126,"start":37301,"end":37515},[47616,47618,47620,47622,47624],{"text":47617,"start":37301,"end":37321},"Es gibt andere Chauffeur Services, eher traditionelle.",{"text":47619,"start":37324,"end":37360},"Das ist eine, die sind aber meist lokal begrenzt und auch weniger irgendwie begrenzt.",{"text":47621,"start":37363,"end":37402},"Und dann hast Du halt die Tech Player über und so weiter, die halt einen über oder anbieten.",{"text":47623,"start":37405,"end":37439},"Aber es ist schon noch mal 'n anderes Level, was halt das Servicelevel angeht, ne.",{"text":47625,"start":37439,"end":37515},"Also wir wir finden uns halt so dazwischen im Sinne von Servicequalität sehr vergleichbar mit den traditionellen und Tech oder Detail Experience eher Richtung Uber oder oder Lift.",{"sentences":47627,"speaker":514,"num_words":44739,"start":37519,"end":37527},[47628],{"text":47629,"start":37519,"end":37527},"Zumindest ist unser Anspruch.",{"sentences":47631,"speaker":143,"num_words":45335,"start":37530,"end":37541},[47632],{"text":47633,"start":37530,"end":37541},"Wie bist Du da hingekommen?",{"sentences":47635,"speaker":122,"num_words":45393,"start":37544,"end":37602},[47636,47638],{"text":47637,"start":37544,"end":37562},"Vielleicht auch gerne, was hat dich da gereizt?",{"text":47639,"start":37562,"end":37602},"Weil ich glaub, das ist jetzt das, was mich, also bei dem anderen wirkte direkt eine technische Challenge.",{"sentences":47641,"speaker":514,"num_words":47525,"start":37602,"end":37749},[47642,47644,47646,47648,47649],{"text":47643,"start":37602,"end":37620},"Ja, also das das war eher so persönlich.",{"text":47645,"start":37620,"end":37667},"Ich hab mit Blacklane vor 7, 8 Jahren mal gesprochen, hab Jens und den Frank Steuer kennengelernt.",{"text":47647,"start":37670,"end":37736},"Wir hatten damals 'n CTO gesucht, war nichts interessiert und bin halt ständig mit Frank irgendwie zum Mittagessen, ne, hab ich mich mit ihm getroffen, so einmal mehr.",{"text":1618,"start":37736,"end":37738},{"text":47650,"start":37738,"end":37749},"Und Jens dann teilweise auch.",{"sentences":47652,"speaker":514,"num_words":44820,"start":37751,"end":37952},[47653,47655,47657,47659,47661],{"text":47654,"start":37751,"end":37798},"Genau, wir waren immer in Kontakt und Jens hatte dann mich kontaktiert und gesagt, Du, ich brauch einen neuen CTO CPO.",{"text":47656,"start":37801,"end":37850},"Der Vorher ist grade gegangen, lange diskutiert und lange gesprochen und ja, dann hab ich gesagt, okay, lass es machen.",{"text":47658,"start":37852,"end":37870},"A, also ich glaub, primär Company Kultur.",{"text":47660,"start":37873,"end":37922},"Jens als Person, Rest Rest vom Team und die gesamte Kultur in Blacklane ist schon recht recht außergewöhnlich, ne.",{"text":47662,"start":37922,"end":37952},"Sehr peopleorientiert, sehr people fokussiert, sehr angenehm dort zu arbeiten.",{"sentences":47664,"speaker":514,"num_words":44820,"start":37954,"end":38168},[47665,47667,47669,47671,47673],{"text":47666,"start":37954,"end":38023},"Heißt jetzt nicht, dass wir nicht ambitioniert sind, aber ist einfach vom vom Umgangston anders gewesen, sehr eigen, sehr, sehr speziell, sag ich mal, Positiv speziell.",{"text":47668,"start":38026,"end":38035},"Genau, das hat mich gereizt.",{"text":47670,"start":38038,"end":38091},"Und dann war halt das Team, 'n bestehendes Team, 80 Leute, auch wieder alte Plattformen, Standard, Scaler Problem, ne.",{"text":47672,"start":38091,"end":38150},"Irgendwie monolithische Plattformen, in dem Fall Ruben Rails, stark hinterher, CEO, superanhappy mit mit dem Outcome vom Tech Team.",{"text":47674,"start":38152,"end":38168},"Genau, und das war so die die Challenge.",{"sentences":47676,"speaker":514,"num_words":45151,"start":38168,"end":38325},[47677,47679,47681,47683,47685],{"text":47678,"start":38168,"end":38184},"Einmal die Tech Challenge und dann die.",{"text":47680,"start":38187,"end":38210},"Also das Team entsprechend weiter ausbauen oder auch umbauen, ne.",{"text":47682,"start":38210,"end":38277},"Die Organisationsstruktur war recht eigen eigenwillig, nicht sehr optimiert auf Produktfokus, doch eher Stakeholder fokussiert im Sinne von, was der Stakeholder sagt, bauen wir.",{"text":47684,"start":38280,"end":38291},"Nicht datengetrieben und so weiter.",{"text":47686,"start":38291,"end":38325},"Also gab's schon viele, viele Baustellen auch auf der Kulturseite, organisatorischen Seite.",{"sentences":47688,"speaker":514,"num_words":46568,"start":38327,"end":38361},[47689,47691],{"text":47690,"start":38327,"end":38351},"Und genau, das haben wir jetzt umgebaut in den letzten 2 Jahren.",{"text":47692,"start":38351,"end":38361},"Wir sind noch dabei.",{"sentences":47694,"speaker":122,"num_words":46384,"start":38361,"end":38644},[47695,47697,47699,47701,47703],{"text":47696,"start":38361,"end":38422},"Find ich find ich irgendwie einen interessante Zusammensetzung, wo Du sagst so einerseits Kulturen wie irgendwie die Arbeitsweise nicht produktfokussiert und eher Stakeholderfokussiert.",{"text":47698,"start":38425,"end":38544},"Das spricht für mich erst mal son bisschen, weil ich mein eigentlich war meine Frage so, was was zeichnet denn die die das das Umfeld bei Blacklinzer aus, dass als Firma das Du sagst, okay, irgendwie der Umgang miteinander, irgendwie die Kultur, die ist schon sehr besonders so.",{"text":47700,"start":38544,"end":38613},"Da hätte ich jetzt erwarten, dass das vielleicht auch nicht als 1 der Probleme kommt, sodass Culture und Bieder 'n Produkt gebaut wird, dass das vielleicht einhergeht.",{"text":47702,"start":38616,"end":38635},"Also die erste Frage, was was zeichnet sie aus?",{"text":47704,"start":38635,"end":38644},"Was macht sie besonders?",{"sentences":47706,"speaker":122,"num_words":45382,"start":38644,"end":38715},[47707,47709],{"text":47708,"start":38644,"end":38689},"Was machen sie vielleicht auch anders, damit das so ist, damit das 'n Argument für dich war zu kommen?",{"text":47710,"start":38691,"end":38715},"Und dann, wie passt das mit dem mit dann der Arbeitsweise zusammen?",{"sentences":47712,"speaker":514,"num_words":44941,"start":38718,"end":38827},[47713,47715,47716,47717,47719],{"text":47714,"start":38718,"end":38776},"Ja, also ich glaub, die Kultur, Care ist, glaub ich, war 1 der, ist noch 1 der, die haben wir jetzt grade neu neu aufgesetzt.",{"text":1618,"start":38776,"end":38779},{"text":1618,"start":38781,"end":38782},{"text":47718,"start":38782,"end":38805},"Care im Sinne von, wir wir kümmern uns die Leute.",{"text":47720,"start":38805,"end":38827},"Wir wir sind, ja, nicht über die Arbeit hinaus sozusagen.",{"sentences":47722,"speaker":514,"num_words":45413,"start":38827,"end":39039},[47723,47725,47727,47729,47731],{"text":47724,"start":38827,"end":38839},"Und das fühlt man irgendwie.",{"text":47726,"start":38839,"end":38925},"Also wenn ich mich mit Jens treffe, dann haben wir auch sehr viel persönliche Diskussionen, aber auch wenn's einmal nicht gut geht auf beiden Seiten, dann helfen wir uns irgendwie aus und dann hören wir zu.",{"text":47728,"start":38925,"end":38951},"Und dann sind wir auch besorgt, wenn's einem nicht gut geht.",{"text":47730,"start":38951,"end":38968},"Und das hat man nicht in jeder Company.",{"text":47732,"start":38970,"end":39039},"Also vorherige Jobs, die ich hatte, war das auf jeden Fall nicht so, dass das schon sehr speziell, dass Blacklin wirklich für seine Mitarbeiter sich sorgt, meine Vorstellung.",{"sentences":47734,"speaker":514,"num_words":45662,"start":39043,"end":39288},[47735,47736,47738,47740],{"text":1787,"start":39043,"end":39044},{"text":47737,"start":39048,"end":39141},"Die Kultur im Techteam war jetzt halt eher so, dass sie wenig datengetrieben war und doch schon eher klassisch auf viele Ideen, die halt umgesetzt wurden, die jetzt nicht unbedingt richtig priorisiert wurden datenbasiert, ne, sondern eher.",{"text":47739,"start":39144,"end":39273},"Aber das, glaub ich, eher so klassische Start-up Problem, wo dann halt Stakeholder im Grunde entscheiden, was gebaut wird und welche Features wichtig sind, ne, ohne dass böswillig oder so oder schlecht, sondern einfach nur eine geprägte Engineering Produktkultur, die halt nicht standesgemäß ist, was so, wie man heut Produkt entwickelt.",{"text":47741,"start":39275,"end":39288},"Glaube ich, ja, 'n Talentproblem.",{"sentences":47743,"speaker":143,"num_words":45449,"start":39288,"end":39370},[47744,47746],{"text":47745,"start":39288,"end":39341},"Wie viel p von CP0 war so in der in den letzten 2 Jahren dabei oder war's erst mal auch aus Techsicht?",{"text":47747,"start":39341,"end":39370},"Weißt, wo Du sagtest, da hab ich noch den größeren Hebel?",{"sentences":47749,"speaker":514,"num_words":45694,"start":39374,"end":39528},[47750,47752,47754,47756,47758],{"text":47751,"start":39374,"end":39382},"Aufteilung, gute Frage.",{"text":47753,"start":39385,"end":39454},"Wahrscheinlich mehr p als e, also mehr Produkte als Engineering, am Anfang zumindest, weil meine Sichtweise ist halt, kannst 'n Team mit 100 Ingenieure haben.",{"text":47755,"start":39456,"end":39474},"Die das falsche Produkt bauen, bringt das relativ wenig.",{"text":47757,"start":39474,"end":39496},"Oder wenn die in der falschen Themen arbeiten, ne.",{"text":47759,"start":39498,"end":39528},"Das heißt, erst mal war die Frage, okay, was was sind eigentlich die Probleme?",{"sentences":47761,"speaker":514,"num_words":45382,"start":39528,"end":39608},[47762,47764,47766,47768,47770],{"text":47763,"start":39528,"end":39546},"Was wollen wir auf Businessseite erreichen?",{"text":47765,"start":39549,"end":39556},"Was müssen wir bauen?",{"text":47767,"start":39556,"end":39568},"Wo müssen wir investieren, ne?",{"text":47769,"start":39568,"end":39587},"In die Mobile App oder in die Web Webpräsenz?",{"text":47771,"start":39591,"end":39608},"Ist es eher B2B oder eher B2C?",{"sentences":47773,"speaker":514,"num_words":46081,"start":39608,"end":39626},[47774],{"text":47775,"start":39608,"end":39626},"Blacklin ist halt beides, B2C und B2B.",{"sentences":47777,"speaker":122,"num_words":122,"start":39630,"end":39631},[47778],{"text":260,"start":39630,"end":39631},{"sentences":47780,"speaker":514,"num_words":709,"start":39631,"end":39774},[47781,47783,47785,47787,47789],{"text":47782,"start":39631,"end":39685},"da halt entscheiden, welche Features sind wichtig, dann halt Effizienz oder sich danach halt dann drauf zu fokussieren, okay, wie machen wir's denn?",{"text":47784,"start":39688,"end":39701},"Können wir mit der Plattform weitermachen?",{"text":47786,"start":39704,"end":39712},"Brauchen eine neue Plattform?",{"text":47788,"start":39712,"end":39730},"Wie würden wir sie umbauen und so weiter?",{"text":47790,"start":39730,"end":39774},"Aber das ist erst mal, glaub ich, zweitrangig, wenn Du nicht weißt, was das Problem ist, was Du lösen willst.",{"sentences":47792,"speaker":514,"num_words":44963,"start":39777,"end":39894},[47793,47795,47797,47799,47801],{"text":47794,"start":39777,"end":39799},"Daher war anfänglich, glaub ich, eher erst mal Produkt.",{"text":47796,"start":39801,"end":39829},"Und jetzt ist halt immer so hin und her, ist grade gemischt, ne.",{"text":47798,"start":39829,"end":39854},"Wir bauen jetzt grad die Plattform bauen eine komplette neue Plattform auf.",{"text":47800,"start":39856,"end":39885},"Aber auch wieder sehr produktgetrieben, ne, was eigentlich Probleme, die wir lösen wollen.",{"text":47802,"start":39885,"end":39894},"Warum machen wir das?",{"sentences":47804,"speaker":514,"num_words":122,"start":39894,"end":39896},[47805],{"text":938,"start":39894,"end":39896},{"sentences":47807,"speaker":122,"num_words":47813,"start":39898,"end":40060},[47808,47809,47811],{"text":938,"start":39898,"end":39899},{"text":47810,"start":39899,"end":39954},"Vielleicht für mich die Frage, die mich jetzt am meisten interessiert bei deiner aktuellen Rolle noch, ist, CTO und CPO eher was Allgemeines so.",{"text":47812,"start":39954,"end":40060},"Du hast vorher immer, gut, bei Sender warst Du auch schon CPO mit, aber hältst Du den Mix aus CTO und CPO für den für den richtigen Schritt als Company, das in 1 Rolle zu vereinen oder welche pro und contras siehst Du darin?",69,{"sentences":47815,"speaker":514,"num_words":45347,"start":40063,"end":40163},[47816,47818,47820,47821,47822],{"text":47817,"start":40063,"end":40097},"Also ich glaub, es kommt 'n bisschen auf die Struktur da drunter an, auch.",{"text":47819,"start":40099,"end":40122},"Also ich hab jetzt 2 Director products und 2 Director Engineering.",{"text":1618,"start":40122,"end":40124},{"text":1618,"start":40124,"end":40127},{"text":47823,"start":40127,"end":40163},"Dadurch, dass wir ja sind, haben wir sozusagen die Chauffeur Seite und die Seite.",{"sentences":47825,"speaker":514,"num_words":44905,"start":40166,"end":40289},[47826,47828,47829,47831,47833],{"text":47827,"start":40166,"end":40171},"Wir nennen das.",{"text":1618,"start":40174,"end":40175},{"text":47830,"start":40178,"end":40202},"Und jeweils da Produkt Produkt dann hinten direktor drauf.",{"text":47832,"start":40204,"end":40226},"Und die verantworten diese 2 Seiten der Plattform recht eigenständig.",{"text":47834,"start":40229,"end":40289},"Was mir halt hilft, mich son bisschen mehr als auf die Businessseite zu fokussieren, zu verstehen, was müssen wir als Company für eine Richtung einschlagen?",{"sentences":47836,"speaker":514,"num_words":44879,"start":40292,"end":40469},[47837,47839,47841,47843,47845],{"text":47838,"start":40292,"end":40324},"Da bin ich auch recht stark involviert und das dann halt umsetzen in die Produktstrategie.",{"text":47840,"start":40327,"end":40373},"Und dann hilft es mir zumindest, und ich glaub, auch der Organisation, hoff ich zumindest, diese Abwägung zu treffen.",{"text":47842,"start":40373,"end":40425},"Können wir das können wir das nicht, wenn wir das machen, ist das möglich technisch oder was müssen wir auf technischer Seite machen?",{"text":47844,"start":40427,"end":40437},"Das vereinfacht sehr viel.",{"text":47846,"start":40439,"end":40469},"Der Nachteil ist halt, Kapazität zu haben, ne, also auch für beides.",{"sentences":47848,"speaker":514,"num_words":45305,"start":40471,"end":40568},[47849,47851,47853,47855,47857],{"text":47850,"start":40471,"end":40487},"Das ist son bisschen die Challenge, glaub ich.",{"text":47852,"start":40487,"end":40508},"Also das kann halt schon sehr stressig sein teilweise.",{"text":47854,"start":40510,"end":40538},"Aber Du hast halt weniger Abstimmungsbedarf, ne, zwischen dem CPO und CTO.",{"text":47856,"start":40540,"end":40562},"Jetzt können wir dann argumentieren, dass halt so, meistens.",{"text":1618,"start":40567,"end":40568},{"sentences":47859,"speaker":514,"num_words":47525,"start":40570,"end":40721},[47860,47862,47864,47866,47868],{"text":47861,"start":40570,"end":40596},"Aber ich glaub, das ist dann halt vielleicht auch 'n bisschen Erfahrungssache.",{"text":47863,"start":40600,"end":40619},"Also ich hab mit vielen guten Produktleuten zusammengearbeitet.",{"text":47865,"start":40622,"end":40642},"Ich war mal sehr produktorientiert auch in meinen Rollen.",{"text":47867,"start":40644,"end":40661},"Hab auch immer stark auf Produktseite mitgearbeitet.",{"text":47869,"start":40664,"end":40721},"Das hilft mir halt, jetzt beide Seiten abzubilden und mit 'nem Team dadrunter, was es dann halt umsetzen kann und auch mitgestalten kann.",{"sentences":47871,"speaker":514,"num_words":45008,"start":40723,"end":40770},[47872,47874],{"text":47873,"start":40723,"end":40747},"Also mir hilft mir, ich glaube, in der Blacklane hilft das.",{"text":47875,"start":40749,"end":40770},"Wir sind dadurch, glaub ich, etwas effizienter in der Umsetzung.",{"sentences":47877,"speaker":122,"num_words":44941,"start":40773,"end":40887},[47878,47880],{"text":47879,"start":40773,"end":40844},"Und glaubst Du, dass sone Rolle CTO, CPO nur von ihm ausgelebt werden kann, der vorher schon mal CTO war und dann die CPO Rolle dazu auch noch mit annimmt?",{"text":47881,"start":40844,"end":40887},"Oder gibt es auch, siehst Du auch Beispiele dafür, dass CPOs die CTO Rolle mit annehmen so?",{"sentences":47883,"speaker":514,"num_words":47894,"start":40890,"end":41106},[47884,47886,47888,47890,47892],{"text":47885,"start":40890,"end":40931},"Also ich bin halt, ich glaub, meine Zeit bei Nokia und bei Skype hat das son bisschen geprägt.",{"text":47887,"start":40931,"end":40996},"Bei Skype war es so, Skype ist halt Microsoft gewesen und die Kultur bei Microsoft und bei Skype war halt alle sehr, sehr technisch bis zum CEO, ne.",{"text":47889,"start":40996,"end":41025},"Ich meine, Bill Gates selber war halt megatechnisch unterwegs, ne.",{"text":47891,"start":41025,"end":41098},"Und das, der Anspruch war halt da, immer zu sagen, okay, da gab's den Split zwischen Produkt und Engineering, aber die die konnten auch nicht zu jeder Zeit, konnte man austauschen.",{"text":47893,"start":41101,"end":41106},"Die konnten beides.",90,{"sentences":47896,"speaker":122,"num_words":122,"start":41108,"end":41109},[47897],{"text":1618,"start":41108,"end":41109},{"sentences":47899,"speaker":514,"num_words":44820,"start":41109,"end":41301},[47900,47902,47904,47906,47908],{"text":47901,"start":41109,"end":41138},"Weil die Produktleute sehr technisch waren und die waren sehr produktfokussiert.",{"text":47903,"start":41142,"end":41162},"Und das hab ich da gelernt und auch weitergelebt.",{"text":47905,"start":41162,"end":41178},"Und das war bei Klarna genauso, ne.",{"text":47907,"start":41178,"end":41255},"Bei Klarna musste man sehr technisch sein als Produktmensch und aber auch als Engineer musste man sehr produktfokussiert sein, weil der Gründer und der CPO und alle waren sehr produktfokussiert, ne.",{"text":47909,"start":41257,"end":41301},"Wenn man so in diesem Umfeld aufwächst, dann hat man immer diesen Produktfokus, auch als Ingenieur oder als CTO.",{"sentences":47911,"speaker":514,"num_words":46276,"start":41303,"end":41492},[47912,47914,47916,47918,47920],{"text":47913,"start":41303,"end":41340},"Und so betrat ich auch meine Organisation aktuell und das ist auch mein Anspruch an die Organisation.",{"text":47915,"start":41342,"end":41385},"Und wenn Du 'n Engineering Manager bist, kannst Du nicht kannst Du nicht sagen, ist mir egal, was wir bauen.",{"text":47917,"start":41387,"end":41416},"Ich kümmer mich nur den Engineering Teil und musst 'n Produktfokus mitbringen.",{"text":47919,"start":41416,"end":41457},"Und ViceVERSER, Produktleute müssen son bisschen teiltechnisch sein und verstehen, wie das umgesetzt wird, ne.",{"text":47921,"start":41459,"end":41492},"Und wenn Du das mitbringst, dann kann man das, glaub ich, kombinieren ganz gut.",{"sentences":47923,"speaker":514,"num_words":45382,"start":41494,"end":41563},[47924,47926],{"text":47925,"start":41494,"end":41526},"Das heißt aber, Du musst das mal gesehen haben, Du musst das mal erlebt haben.",{"text":47927,"start":41528,"end":41563},"Du musst in der Organisation gearbeitet haben, wo das so ist, wo das auch so funktioniert.",{"sentences":47929,"speaker":122,"num_words":44963,"start":41566,"end":41686},[47930],{"text":47931,"start":41566,"end":41686},"Kann man ja nur halt eher so vorstellen, dass man wie diesen Produktteil, wenn man den technischen Background hat, eher und der Job irgendwie mitlernen kann, wenn man dafür interessiert ist und so und wenn man aus der Produktsicht kommt, den technischen Teil eher nicht so einfach mitlernt so durchs Zugucken.",{"sentences":47933,"speaker":514,"num_words":46447,"start":41686,"end":41876},[47934,47936,47938,47940,47942],{"text":47935,"start":41686,"end":41706},"Ja, aber ich glaube, Produkt ist auch nicht simpel.",{"text":47937,"start":41709,"end":41719},"Also man Definitiv nicht.",{"text":47939,"start":41721,"end":41764},"Das sieht sieht so aus, sagt dem Motto, ich hab auch eine Meinung, wie das Produkt funktionieren sollte.",{"text":47941,"start":41767,"end":41843},"Aber wirklich ist dann Produktmanagement im Sinne von und und so weiter wirklich verstehen und analysieren, wie man 'n Produkt voranbringt und optimiert und weiteroptimiert, das ist schon immer eine andere Liga.",{"text":47943,"start":41847,"end":41876},"Also ich kann kann man, glaub ich, nicht einfach unsere Job unbedingt leer.",{"sentences":47945,"speaker":514,"num_words":45151,"start":41876,"end":42015},[47946,47948,47950],{"text":47947,"start":41876,"end":41913},"Muss man, glaub ich, eine Weile gemacht haben in in 'ner Art und Weise, ja.",{"text":47949,"start":41915,"end":41949},"Oder eine eine Organisation, die sehr gut ist und das da mitnehmen, ne, und beobachten.",{"text":47951,"start":41952,"end":42015},"Aber wenn ich jetzt reiner Ingenieur CTO bin, der wenig produkt fokussiert war und dann in eine Protokolle zu gehen, ist halt, glaub ich, schwierig, das, glaub ich.",{"sentences":47953,"speaker":122,"num_words":47964,"start":42015,"end":42397},[47954,47956,47958,47960,47962],{"text":47955,"start":42015,"end":42062},"Nee, klar, ich Also da muss das Interesse auch dafür da sein und vorher mich schon mit jetzt kritisiert haben.",{"text":47957,"start":42062,"end":42144},"Ich mein, ich hab selbst aus dem Weg gemacht von vorher Full Stack Engineering zu jetzt hauptsächlich Product Management so und das ist würd auch sagen, es ist für mich der schwierigere Job.",{"text":47959,"start":42147,"end":42156},"Facettenreichere, aber der schwierigere.",{"text":47961,"start":42160,"end":42366},"Aber so, genau, da man kann son bisschen, wenn man die, wenn man das, wenn man die Lust darauf hat, so während man den Engineering Manager vielleicht macht, so im Produkt dann mitarbeiten, sich die Skills irgendwie vielleicht mit drauf schaffen, irgendwie Interesse haben und irgendwie sich's mit anschauen, als dann, wenn man lange Produkte macht, dann zu sagen zu sagen, ach, ich fang jetzt noch mal an zu entwickeln und probier noch mal wirklich von der Pike auf zu lernen, hab ich's viel wäre der schwierige.",{"text":47963,"start":42366,"end":42397},"Aber das war, glaub ich, der Case, den ich son bisschen vielleicht aufmachen wollte.",158,{"sentences":47966,"speaker":514,"num_words":46811,"start":42397,"end":42515},[47967,47968,47970,47971,47973],{"text":938,"start":42397,"end":42399},{"text":47969,"start":42402,"end":42457},"Aber wahrscheinlich könntest Du als Produktmanager, wenn Du sehr technisch unterwegs bist, dass Du mal gesehen hast, wahrscheinlich sone Engineering Managerrolle einnehmen.",{"text":938,"start":42457,"end":42460},{"text":47972,"start":42460,"end":42501},"Son bisschen 'nem gewissen Grade, wahrscheinlich weniger, mehr so People Management teil und Delivery teil.",{"text":47974,"start":42504,"end":42515},"Das könnte wahrscheinlich von Sinn.",{"sentences":47976,"speaker":514,"num_words":44854,"start":42515,"end":42532},[47977],{"text":47978,"start":42515,"end":42532},"Ja, mal Coding natürlich nicht, ne.",{"sentences":47980,"speaker":122,"num_words":45164,"start":42532,"end":42778},[47981,47983,47985,47987,47989],{"text":47982,"start":42532,"end":42623},"Aber ist meintest das trotzdem, was was Du meintest so kulturell halt interessant, dass Du auch grade meintest bei Skype oder halt auch Microsoft im Allgemeinen, da könnten der Produktfokussierte und der Engineering Manager irgendwie theoretisch tauschen.",{"text":47984,"start":42623,"end":42683},"Ich war auch vorher in anderen Enterprises, während man lange Zeit auf meiner großen Bank gearbeitet, da würde das absolut gar nicht funktionieren.",{"text":47986,"start":42685,"end":42720},"Während auf Product Seite ist, ist wirklich so sehr weit entfernt von dem Technischen so.",{"text":47988,"start":42720,"end":42749},"Und da da könnte ich's mir in soner Konzession gar nicht vorstellen.",{"text":47990,"start":42749,"end":42778},"Klar, bei uns jetzt bei Lotum ist die Kombination auch eine andere.",{"sentences":47992,"speaker":122,"num_words":45329,"start":42778,"end":42843},[47993,47995],{"text":47994,"start":42778,"end":42815},"Da haben wir ganz viele von diesen Wechseln und da, ja, auf jeden Fall.",{"text":47996,"start":42815,"end":42843},"So, bei uns können eigentlich fast jeder macht auch genauso gut Engineering machen.",{"sentences":47998,"speaker":514,"num_words":45624,"start":42845,"end":43027},[47999,48000,48002,48004,48006],{"text":938,"start":42845,"end":42846},{"text":48001,"start":42849,"end":42890},"Und zum Beispiel Amazon, ne, die haben ja ein ähnliches Modell, die haben ja diese GM Modelle.",{"text":48003,"start":42890,"end":42947},"Du bist halt 'n GM für irgend eine Unit, weiß ich, wenn jetzt bei, ich hab mal den GM getroffen von Amazon s 3.",{"text":48005,"start":42950,"end":42994},"Das ist halt 'n Hardcore Leader und die verantwortet halt s 3 als als als Unit, als Business, ne.",{"text":48007,"start":42994,"end":43027},"Hat aber 'n sehr starkes Produktverständnis, Businessverständnis und 'n technisches Verständnis.",{"sentences":48009,"speaker":514,"num_words":44830,"start":43030,"end":43112},[48010,48012,48014],{"text":48011,"start":43030,"end":43056},"Da Amazon fährt nicht jedes Modell, ne, zumindest auf der Ebene.",{"text":48013,"start":43056,"end":43089},"Darunter splittest Du das dann, glaub ich, auf, aber ist sehr ähnlich, ne.",{"text":48015,"start":43089,"end":43112},"Aber ist halt eine spezielle Art von Leuten, glaub ich.",{"sentences":48017,"speaker":122,"num_words":514,"start":43112,"end":43116},[48018],{"text":48019,"start":43112,"end":43116},"Und Du",{"sentences":48021,"speaker":514,"num_words":45987,"start":43116,"end":43139},[48022],{"text":48023,"start":43116,"end":43139},"musst halt Interesse daran haben und 'n Bock drauf haben, ne.",{"sentences":48025,"speaker":122,"num_words":44932,"start":43142,"end":43149},[48026,48027],{"text":16399,"start":43142,"end":43143},{"text":48028,"start":43143,"end":43149},"Sehr cool.",{"sentences":48030,"speaker":514,"num_words":45957,"start":43152,"end":43236},[48031,48033,48034,48036,48038],{"text":48032,"start":43152,"end":43193},"Ich hab jetzt Manager, die ist bei uns als EM eingestiegen und macht jetzt auch grade Produkt mit.",{"text":1618,"start":43193,"end":43195},{"text":48035,"start":43195,"end":43206},"Und das funktioniert ganz gut.",{"text":48037,"start":43208,"end":43230},"Hat da Bock drauf und ist extrem effizient unterwegs.",{"text":48039,"start":43230,"end":43236},"Was das noch?",{"sentences":48041,"speaker":514,"num_words":46081,"start":43239,"end":43260},[48042,48044],{"text":48043,"start":43239,"end":43258},"Weniger Abstimmungsbedarf mit sich selber, ja.",{"text":938,"start":43258,"end":43260},{"sentences":48046,"speaker":122,"num_words":514,"start":43260,"end":43265},[48047],{"text":48028,"start":43260,"end":43265},{"sentences":48049,"speaker":143,"num_words":47525,"start":43267,"end":43409},[48050],{"text":48051,"start":43267,"end":43409},"Eine Frage, die wir gerne am Ende noch einmal stellen in unseren CTO Specials ist, wenn Du jetzt noch mal zurückreisen könntest und deinem jungen Ich irgendwas ins Ohr flüstern kannst, fällt dir da irgendwie spontan was ein, wo Du sagen würdest so, ach, wenn ich diese Erkenntnis damals schon gehabt hätte, dann hätt ich irgendwas grundlegend anders gemacht?",{"sentences":48053,"speaker":514,"num_words":45382,"start":43413,"end":43504},[48054,48056,48057,48059,48061],{"text":48055,"start":43413,"end":43436},"Also Spaß bei sehr, aber Microsoft Aktien investieren?",{"text":43443,"start":43440,"end":43441},{"text":48058,"start":43445,"end":43482},"Ja, wenn ich den Preis mit anschauen und dann würd ich mir das flüstern.",{"text":48060,"start":43485,"end":43498},"Hätt ich dir was anders gemacht?",{"text":48062,"start":43500,"end":43504},"Gute Frage.",{"sentences":48064,"speaker":514,"num_words":47813,"start":43506,"end":43669},[48065,48067,48069,48070,48072],{"text":48066,"start":43506,"end":43561},"Also im im im Kleinen wahrscheinlich schon, aber so generell bin ich eigentlich ziemlich zufrieden mit dem, was ich erleben durfte mit meiner Karriere.",{"text":48068,"start":43561,"end":43573},"Ich kann mich nicht beschweren.",{"text":1618,"start":43573,"end":43576},{"text":48071,"start":43576,"end":43598},"Ich hatte extrem spannende Challenges und hatte immer Glück.",{"text":48073,"start":43598,"end":43669},"Also muss ich wirklich sagen, ich hatte, natürlich gab's Challenges, ne, und und auch nicht alles rosig, aber ich hatte irgendwie immer Glück, dass ich Spaß hatte in meinem Job.",{"sentences":48075,"speaker":514,"num_words":48086,"start":43671,"end":43861},[48076,48078,48080,48082,48084],{"text":48077,"start":43671,"end":43746},"Ich glaub, was ich mir selber mitgeben würde, wenn man keinen Spaß mehr hat, dann ist es auch gut und dann kann man auch weiterziehen und da ist nichts Schlimmes Schlimmes dabei.",{"text":48079,"start":43746,"end":43783},"Ich glaub, das ist wichtig, dass man Spaß hat und Passion hat für seinen Job, ne.",{"text":48081,"start":43783,"end":43797},"Ansonsten macht das keinen Sinn.",{"text":48083,"start":43799,"end":43844},"Das gesagt, ja, man muss aber auch manchmal durchhalten, ne und auch irgendwie haben und durch durch Challenges durchgehen.",{"text":48085,"start":43847,"end":43861},"Also das ist, glaub ich, auch wichtig.",79,{"sentences":48088,"speaker":514,"num_words":45892,"start":43861,"end":43990},[48089,48091,48093,48095,48096],{"text":48090,"start":43861,"end":43931},"Das seh ich halt heute so in der grade son Berliner Markt, da wird halt viel, wenn mal irgendwie was nicht funktioniert, dann gehen ziehen Leute gleich weiter direkt.",{"text":48092,"start":43934,"end":43950},"Ich glaub, man muss ja mal haben, ne.",{"text":48094,"start":43950,"end":43983},"Das ist nicht immer, das Gras ist nicht immer grün auf der anderen Seite.",{"text":938,"start":43986,"end":43987},{"text":1787,"start":43989,"end":43990},{"sentences":48098,"speaker":514,"num_words":44782,"start":43990,"end":44037},[48099,48101],{"text":48100,"start":43990,"end":44008},"Aber generell bin ich ziemlich happy mit meinem Werdegang.",{"text":48102,"start":44011,"end":44037},"Hatte echt viel Glück in meine Kehle und immer noch Spaß.",{"sentences":48104,"speaker":122,"num_words":45113,"start":44040,"end":44149},[48105,48106,48108,48110,48112],{"text":48028,"start":44040,"end":44044},{"text":48107,"start":44044,"end":44066},"Na, eine Frage, die mich noch zum Schluss interessiert.",{"text":48109,"start":44068,"end":44103},"Du hast am Anfang gemeint, dein sechsjähriger älterer Bruder, der war eigentlich am Anfang der Nerd.",{"text":48111,"start":44103,"end":44134},"Wenn man jetzt deinen Werteigungswissen anschaut, dann bist Du's definitiv auch.",{"text":48113,"start":44134,"end":44149},"Ist das denn jetzt immer noch so?",{"sentences":48115,"speaker":122,"num_words":45496,"start":44149,"end":44185},[48116],{"text":48117,"start":44149,"end":44185},"Seid ihr jetzt 2 Nerds oder hat sich dein Bruder in die andere Richtung entwickelt?",{"sentences":48119,"speaker":514,"num_words":46506,"start":44188,"end":44393},[48120,48122,48124,48126,48127],{"text":48121,"start":44188,"end":44211},"Nee, ich glaub, er ist immer mehr Nerd als ich bin.",{"text":48123,"start":44213,"end":44303},"Ich bin, ich hab mich, glaub ich, mehr Richtung halt Videoschirm und so was entwickelt hat, immer noch sehr technisch unterwegs, aber ich glaub halt nicht so der, ja, jetzt bin ich am Wochenende nicht mehr hin und code irgendwas.",{"text":48125,"start":44303,"end":44355},"Das hab ich zum letzten Mal bei Klarna gemacht irgendwie so als Hobbyprojekt oder jetzt wieder mit Cloud Code und so weiter.",{"text":938,"start":44355,"end":44357},{"text":48128,"start":44361,"end":44393},"Kenn ich das wieder, zumindest krieg so, kann ich so tun, als ob.",{"sentences":48130,"speaker":514,"num_words":45074,"start":44396,"end":44425},[48131],{"text":48132,"start":44396,"end":44425},"Nee, aber ich glaub, er ist immer mehr Nerd, als als ich das bin.",{"sentences":48134,"speaker":122,"num_words":122,"start":44427,"end":44428},[48135],{"text":13696,"start":44427,"end":44428},{"sentences":48137,"speaker":143,"num_words":48086,"start":44428,"end":44625},[48138,48139,48141,48143,48145],{"text":28912,"start":44428,"end":44431},{"text":48140,"start":44434,"end":44463},"Ja, sehr handel von dir vieles auch auf das Glück zu beziehen.",{"text":48142,"start":44466,"end":44561},"Ich glaube, mit Sicherheit hast Du auch viele Dinge sehr richtig gemacht, dass Du die Möglichkeit hattest, in in diesen verschiedenen Rollen zu arbeiten und und da mitzuwirken und mit Sicherheit einiges bewirkt hast bei den all den Firmen.",{"text":48144,"start":44561,"end":44608},"Von daher vielen vielen Dank, Dirk, dass Du uns ein bisschen teilhaben hast an all dem, was Du erlebt hast.",{"text":48146,"start":44608,"end":44625},"Ich fand es mega spannend, das mitzubekommen.",{"sentences":48148,"speaker":143,"num_words":46606,"start":44629,"end":44688},[48149,48150],{"text":44632,"start":44629,"end":44630},{"text":48151,"start":44634,"end":44688},"Und wünsche dir auf jeden Fall auch ganz viel Glück und Erfolg dann in den nächsten Stationen, die noch auf mich zukommen werden.",{"sentences":48153,"speaker":514,"num_words":45881,"start":44690,"end":44722},[48154,48156,48158,48160,48161],{"text":48155,"start":44690,"end":44695},"Vielen Dank.",{"text":48157,"start":44695,"end":44705},"Danke dir auch.",{"text":48159,"start":44705,"end":44713},"Macht's 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