[{"data":1,"prerenderedAt":66547},["ShallowReactive",2],{"/podcast/deep-dive-204-privacy-first-infrastructure-mit-jan-peiniger":3},{"podcast":4,"pickOfTheDayCount":137,"speakerCount":138,"relatedPodcasts":139,"transcript":140},{"id":5,"published_on":6,"type":7,"number":8,"title":9,"slug":10,"description":11,"transcript":12,"audio_url":13,"apple_url":12,"google_url":12,"spotify_url":12,"cover_image":14,"banner_image":25,"speakers":37,"members":54,"picks_of_the_day":88,"tags":133,"tagsPrepared":134,"speakersPrepared":135},"ad2ad632-b061-477a-8021-16abbc8d3cd4","2026-03-31T04:00:00.000Z","deep_dive","204","Privacy-First Infrastructure mit Jan Peiniger","deep-dive-204-privacy-first-infrastructure-mit-jan-peiniger","\u003Cp data-start=\"135\" data-end=\"645\">In dieser Folge erfahren wir, warum Privacy-First nicht nur auf Produkt-, sondern auch auf Infrastruktur-Ebene relevant sein kann und unser Gast berichtet, warum ihn Cookie-Banner so sehr gestört haben, dass er sich dem consent-freien Webdesign verschrieben hat.\u003C/p>\n\u003Cp data-start=\"135\" data-end=\"645\">Jan Peiniger, Gründer von \u003Ca href=\"https://ignite.video/de\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Ignite\u003C/a>, berichtet, wie die Idee zu ihrer Video-Hosting-Plattform entstand, nachdem die Hürden von Cookie-Bannern und DSGVO-Anforderungen bei Kund:innenprojekten wie dem \u003Ca href=\"https://www.phantasialand.de/de/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Phantasialand\u003C/a> offensichtlich wurden. Die zentrale Motivation: Nutzer:innen sollen Content direkt erleben können, ohne erst Einwilligungen klicken zu müssen, und gleichzeitig bleiben alle personenbezogenen Daten geschützt.\u003C/p>\n\u003Cp data-start=\"647\" data-end=\"1119\">Jan erläutert, dass der Kern der Plattform darin liegt, dass keine personenbezogenen Daten verarbeitet werden. Dadurch entfällt die Notwendigkeit eines Cookie-Banners und der Inhalt wird consent-frei erlebbar.\u003C/p>\n\u003Cp data-start=\"647\" data-end=\"1119\">Die Crew spricht über den technischen Hintergrund der Plattform und darüber, welche Hürden in Architektur, Infrastruktur und Produkt genommen werden mussten, um eine Videoplattform ohne Cookie-Banner realisieren zu können. Zusätzlich wird diskutiert, wo dieser Ansatz seine Grenzen finden könnte und auf welche Features Ignite verzichten musste.\u003C/p>\n\u003Cp data-start=\"1570\" data-end=\"1981\">Die Folge beleuchtet außerdem die Abwägungen zwischen User Experience, Unternehmensanforderungen und Monetarisierung. Consent-Freiheit ist für viele Unternehmen ein USP, aber nicht immer das Hauptkriterium. Besonders in sensiblen Bereichen wie Medizin, Bildung oder Pharma spielt der Schutz personenbezogener Daten eine entscheidende Rolle, während andere Kund:innen schlicht eine stabile Videoausspielung oder eine gute Produktionspipeline suchen.\u003C/p>",null,"https://www.buzzsprout.com/176239/episodes/18930169-deep-dive-204-privacy-first-infrastructure-mit-jan-peiniger.mp3",{"id":15,"title":16,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":17,"filename_download":18,"metadata":19,"type":20,"filesize":21,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":22,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":12,"uploaded_on":23,"folder":12,"width":24,"height":24,"charset":12,"duration":12},"d815a4ea-4e56-4f38-8998-0f8993dbe943","Privacy-First Infrastructure mit Jan Peiniger - episode_cover","d815a4ea-4e56-4f38-8998-0f8993dbe943.jpg","deep_dive-204-episode_cover-1774431131015.jpg",{},"image/jpeg","582060","2026-03-25T09:32:11.112Z","2026-03-25T09:32:11.108Z",1024,{"id":26,"title":27,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":28,"filename_download":29,"metadata":30,"type":31,"filesize":32,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":33,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":34,"uploaded_on":35,"folder":12,"width":36,"height":36,"charset":12,"duration":12},"d7604305-879d-409c-867d-a501ff3a60cd","Jan Hoodie","d7604305-879d-409c-867d-a501ff3a60cd.png","jan-hoodie.png",{},"image/png","3743381","2026-03-31T08:41:36.984Z","11a655b6-bcfc-4c6c-a13c-68189e38edb9","2026-03-31T08:41:36.901Z",2347,[38],{"speaker":39},{"id":40,"slug":41,"academic_title":12,"occupation":42,"first_name":43,"last_name":44,"description":45,"event_image":12,"profile_image":46},"7149b1a6-1bb8-4459-9912-74c2476e3ec3","jan-peiniger","Gründer von Ignite Video","Jan","Peiniger","\u003Cp>Jan ist digitaler Kreativer mit über 20 Jahren Erfahrung darin, digitale Ideen Wirklichkeit werden zu lassen. Er ist Gründer von Ignite, einer SaaS-Plattform, die Video-Hosting und Streaming ohne Cookies und Consent-Banner ermöglicht. Jan ist in der digitalen Produktentwicklung zwischen Design, Code und Architektur zu Hause – stets mit dem Ziel, komplexe digitale Technologien einfacher zugänglich zu machen.\u003C/p>",{"id":47,"title":27,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":48,"filename_download":49,"metadata":50,"type":20,"filesize":51,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":52,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":34,"uploaded_on":53,"folder":12,"width":36,"height":36,"charset":12,"duration":12},"fb844e52-96c0-4bd8-a91d-f9d5dd8e370b","fb844e52-96c0-4bd8-a91d-f9d5dd8e370b.jpg","jan-hoodie.jpg",{},"1328127","2025-10-08T09:13:34.919Z","2025-10-08T09:13:34.916Z",[55,72],{"member":56},{"id":57,"first_name":58,"last_name":59,"occupation":60,"description":61,"normal_image":62},"47099351-508c-44d9-a2a2-855181c72ee8","Jan Gregor","Emge-Triebel","// programmier.bar Tech Community Lead // Podcast-Host","\u003Cp>Jan ist ein echter Technik-Fan mit einer facettenreichen Karriere, die sich über Web-, Mobile-App-Entwicklung und DevOps erstreckt. Dank seiner vielfältigen Rollen – vom Entwickler über den Teamleiter bis hin zum Vice President Development – verfügt Jan über einen großen Erfahrungsschatz in der Softwareentwicklung und Developer Advocacy.\u003Cbr>Seine Leidenschaften jenseits der Technik reichen von Tauchgängen an exotischen Orten über das Eintauchen in digitale wie analoge Spiele bis hin zum Abtauchen in gelungene Plot-Twists in Büchern und Filmen.\u003C/p>",{"id":63,"title":64,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":65,"filename_download":66,"metadata":67,"type":20,"filesize":68,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":69,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":70,"uploaded_on":71,"folder":12,"width":24,"height":24,"charset":12,"duration":12},"ef7c0ccb-a2b5-48a0-8261-c8bbfffd917b","Jan CD","ef7c0ccb-a2b5-48a0-8261-c8bbfffd917b.jpg","Jan_CD.jpg",{},"649400","2024-07-26T09:26:17.846Z","e97179d2-51b3-4deb-828f-9524091441f5","2024-07-26T09:26:17.710Z",{"member":73},{"id":74,"first_name":75,"last_name":76,"occupation":77,"description":78,"normal_image":79},"ff2b7fcd-803f-4bcb-88d4-4f36636c7d6a","Fabi","Fink","// Podcast-Host","\u003Cp>Es ist eher dem Zufall zuzuschreiben, dass Fabi zum Full Stack Developer wurde. Mit Anfängen als Product Owner und Software-Architekt, hatte er zwischenzeitig seine Passion als Coding Wizard gefunden. Heute fungiert er als Product Manager bei Lotum.\u003Cbr>Als Frontsänger mehrerer Bandprojekte fehlt Fabi manchmal die große Bühne im Alltag. Das ist vor allem dann spürbar, wenn er im Podcast auch mal ungefragt seinen Expertisen-Senf dazugibt. Im Gegenzug ist er der Einzige in der Runde, der den Pick of the Day wirklich ernst nimmt.\u003C/p>",{"id":80,"title":81,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":82,"filename_download":83,"metadata":84,"type":20,"filesize":85,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":86,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":70,"uploaded_on":87,"folder":12,"width":24,"height":24,"charset":12,"duration":12},"56cc12dd-4672-4db0-850f-7ad37b68ca86","Fabi CD","56cc12dd-4672-4db0-850f-7ad37b68ca86.jpg","Fabi_CD.jpg",{},"583732","2024-07-29T11:46:00.241Z","2024-07-29T11:46:00.135Z",[89,104,117],{"id":90,"name":91,"website_url":92,"description":93,"image":94},"4287f6e9-d47a-4707-8a3f-2cc388182dfc","Apple Watch Ultra mit 5G","https://www.apple.com/de/apple-watch-ultra-3/","\u003Cp>Jan liebt sie, Fabi lehnt sie grundsätzlich ab. Aber seit Jan auch mobiles Internet am Handgelenk hat, ist seine Smartwatch für ihn noch praktischer geworden.\u003C/p>\n\u003Cp>Egal, ob Musik und Podcasts streamen oder Nachrichten schreiben: Wer freut sich nicht, sein Handy öfter mal zuhause lassen zu können?\u003C/p>",{"id":95,"title":12,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":96,"filename_download":97,"metadata":98,"type":20,"filesize":99,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":100,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":34,"uploaded_on":101,"folder":12,"width":102,"height":103,"charset":12,"duration":12},"e6c84572-0bfe-4b0d-bb92-8b79c100bb21","e6c84572-0bfe-4b0d-bb92-8b79c100bb21.jpg","www-apple-com-de-apple-watch-ultra-3.jpg",{},"61375","2026-03-25T09:11:17.071Z","2026-03-25T09:11:17.068Z",1366,768,{"id":105,"name":106,"website_url":107,"description":108,"image":109},"6b8c0484-3f1e-43df-a450-d702404c0ae2","LanguageTool","https://languagetool.org/de/chrome","\u003Cp data-start=\"67\" data-end=\"596\">LanguageTool ist eine vielseitige Browser-Extension, die beim Schreiben in Echtzeit hilft, Rechtschreib-, Grammatik- und Stilfehler zu erkennen. Sie unterstützt mehrere Sprachen, bietet intelligente Vorschläge für Formulierungen und ist eine praktische Alternative zu anderen Tools wie Grammarly – besonders für deutschsprachige Texte. Mit zusätzlichen KI-basierten Features kann LanguageTool die Ausdrucksweise verbessern, ohne dass man den Schreibfluss unterbrechen muss.\u003C/p>",{"id":110,"title":12,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":111,"filename_download":112,"metadata":113,"type":20,"filesize":114,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":115,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":34,"uploaded_on":116,"folder":12,"width":102,"height":103,"charset":12,"duration":12},"83b14c10-197e-4b56-854f-01f2b15f2bc0","83b14c10-197e-4b56-854f-01f2b15f2bc0.jpg","languagetool-org-de-chrome.jpg",{},"75331","2026-03-25T09:08:37.874Z","2026-03-25T09:08:37.871Z",{"id":118,"name":119,"website_url":120,"description":121,"image":122},"6dab88bf-ca55-495b-ad87-234933c5415e","WhisperFlow","https://wisprflow.ai/","\u003Cp data-start=\"603\" data-end=\"1055\">WhisperFlow ist ein Tool, das Sprache direkt in Text umwandelt und so die Interaktion mit LLMs, Notizen oder Textdokumenten deutlich beschleunigt. Über einfache Shortcuts lässt sich überall diktieren, während das Tool automatisch transkribiert und auf Wunsch zusammenfasst. Besonders praktisch für Homeoffice oder kreative Arbeitssessions, in denen man schnell Ideen festhalten möchte, ohne tippen zu müssen.\u003C/p>",{"id":123,"title":124,"description":12,"tags":12,"location":12,"filename_disk":125,"filename_download":126,"metadata":127,"type":31,"filesize":128,"modified_by":12,"modified_on":129,"embed":12,"uploaded_by":34,"uploaded_on":130,"folder":12,"width":131,"height":132,"charset":12,"duration":12},"47ff36e2-8078-4000-8a2a-74a18e863d08","Bildschirmfoto 2026 03 25 Um 10.09.15","47ff36e2-8078-4000-8a2a-74a18e863d08.png","Bildschirmfoto 2026-03-25 um 10.09.15.png",{},"425095","2026-03-25T09:09:27.244Z","2026-03-25T09:09:27.242Z",3176,2166,[],[],[136],{"first_name":43,"last_name":44,"profile_image":46,"slug":41,"description":45,"event_image":12,"academic_title":12},461,191,[],{"id":141,"service":142,"supported_features":143,"speakers":146,"raw_response":153},"4bf772f3-4e12-4abc-abb8-2a01a67e7d97","deepgram",[144,145],"timestamps","diarization",[147,149,151],{"identifier":148,"name":58},"0",{"identifier":150,"name":75},"1",{"identifier":152,"name":43},"2",{"metadata":154,"results":168},{"transaction_key":155,"request_id":156,"sha256":157,"created":158,"duration":159,"channels":160,"models":161,"model_info":163},"deprecated","3e6d500c-83cb-47e3-9c7b-c4942ee707bb","2f19572720899e01e9cf42e3e62b734a7273350cc650dd72f7990781b954debf","2026-03-30T13:45:07.457Z",5091.1763,1,[162],"91f8eabe-2126-4ed4-9e56-d480032309b3",{"91f8eabe-2126-4ed4-9e56-d480032309b3":164},{"name":165,"version":166,"arch":167},"2-general-nova","2024-05-09.3071","nova-2",{"channels":169,"utterances":46286},[170],{"alternatives":171},[172],{"transcript":173,"confidence":174,"words":175,"paragraphs":43622},"Hallo und herzlich willkommen zu einem neuen Deep Dive hier in der Programmierbar. Ich hör für euch im Studio wie immer der Jan, Gregor, im Getriebe, muss man vielleicht dieses Mal dazu sagen. Genau. Weil mit mir im Studio ist Der Fabi Fink, der auf jeden Fall noch nicht für Verwirrung sorgt, was die Namen angeht. Und noch ein Jan. Hallo Jan, schön, dass Du da bist. Korrekt, danke. Ich bin der zweite Jan. Jan, Du bist heute bei uns, weil wir über Privacy sprechen wollen. Und weil Fabio und ich mit Privatsphäre nicht so viel am Hut haben, haben wir gedacht, wir laden dich dazu ein. Du hast ja schon auf der Programmiercon letztes Jahr, ist noch kein Jahr her, aber trotzdem irgendwie letztes Jahr, es klingt irgendwie so lange her. Auf der auf der größten Programmiercon ever? Auf der größten Programmiercon, die es bis dato gab, hast Du einen Talk erhalten über Privacy first infrastructure. Und der Satz, der mir so vom Anfang hängen geblieben ist, ist, das Web nervt und das ist schade. Ja, ist so, oder? Aber warum ist das so? Gut, also da muss man, da gibt's wahrscheinlich viele Gründe für, aber es ist eigentlich so, weil grade bei uns hier in irgendwie Europa im Netz einem einfach überall Hürden in den Weg gelegt werden, bevor man irgendwie mal 'n Content sehen kann mit Cookie Bannern, mit Einwilligung, die man geben muss, mit Sperenzchen, die man irgendwie rum navigieren muss als User, irgendwie zu 'nem schicken Content zu kommen. Und mit diesen ganzen Cookie Bannern und Anforderungen habt ihr euch ja schon sehr lange beschäftigt, weil ihr macht eigentlich im Hauptgeschäft, darf man so Webseiten sagen? Ja, unter anderem, ja. Unter anderem, was macht ihr noch so? Genau, also das ist dann die die Agenturseite. Letztendlich hat digitale Plattformen aller Art. Also es sind auch native Apps dabei, Webseiten, aber auch viel so Backend Shit, interne Tools, halt alles, was man irgendwie entwickeln kann, was irgendwie in 'nem Browser abgeht und teilweise halt auch aufm mobilen Endgerät so. Aber vielleicht kannst Du dann Hörern dann jetzt mal den Namen dazu nennen sozusagen, wer wer seid ihr und was macht ihr in erster Linie, was Privacy first ist? Genau, also vielleicht so der das, worüber wir jetzt grade kurz gesprochen haben, Thema. Das ist mein Übergang ruiniert, Fabi. Also einmal gibt's dann die Agentur, aber das ist jetzt eher dann Ranthema. Das ist, wo wir dann Webseiten bla machen, die heißt P-Media. Gibt's jetzt auch schon knapp 18 Jahre, was erschreckend ist. Aber ist das das Produkt, unsere Videohosting Streaming Plattformen, wo wir sozusagen Videohosting machen in Short Video im Bett, wo man eben keinen Cookie Banner, keinen Cookieconsent braucht, halt 'n Video auf seiner Website zu kriegen, mal einfach gesagt. Und vielleicht holen wir da trotzdem noch 'n Stück aus und gehen noch 'n halben Schritt zurück, weil ihr habt das ja auch für euch gebaut. Genau, deswegen wollt ihr auf diese Leidensgeschichte so son bisschen raus. Ihr leidet selbst am meisten mitunter Cookiebanner. Wie oder was hat für euch das Fass so zum Überlaufen gebracht, dass ihr gesagt habt, das lohnt sich jetzt für uns, diese Plattform zu bauen. Weil ich mein, das Web hat ja das ein oder andere Problem, außer Cookiebandan vielleicht auch noch. Und trotzdem geht man ja nicht jeden Tag daher und sagt, okay, ich bau jetzt hier was, das so im Großen und Ganzen zu lösen. Der Startpunkt war letztendlich tatsächlich dann im Agentur Case da, eine Webseite von 'nem Kunden oder mehreren Kunden am Ende des Tages, das auch dann sozusagen unser unser Pilot kundet, in dem Fall das Phantasialand, halt sehr emotionales Produkt und entsprechend emotional mit Bewegtbild versehener Webseite, alles alles bewegt sich. Man kann sich halt irgendwie vorstellen, dass son Thema in in Standbilder nicht so gut funktioniert wie eben in Bewegung. Und dann ist irgendwie alles cool und dann guckst Du dir aber dann irgendwann mal das ganze Thema an, wie bist Du aufgestellt, sozusagen DSGVO? Dann kommt irgendwann auch mal eine Prüfung und dann stellt sie fest, Du bist irgendwie da in dem Fall wie Miokunde. Und dann sagt dir halt der der liebe Datenschutzmensch mit mit voller Berechtigung, hey, ihr habt eine coole Website, aber die Videos, die könnt ihr erst alle nach Cookieconsent abspielen. Und dann stellst Du, ja, dann sieht halt die Hälfte keine Videos. Vor allem, wenn Du dann jetzt nicht einfach irgendwie 'n Video im Content hast mit 'nem dicken Play Button drauf, sondern wenn Du halt das dem Ganze irgendwie integriert in Hintergründen, Autoplay, dekorativ einsetzen willst, dann macht's dir das Leben halt umso schwerer. Und dann standen wir da und dann sagen wir, unbefriedigend. Und vielleicht dann auch so der der Boom, ich bin jetzt gar kein Datenschutzheini, sondern ich komm da aus der Webexperience Ecke. Ist einfach ist einfach scheiße, wenn die wenn die Webseite dann son son Qualitätsverlust in Sachen irgendwie so User Experience oder halt auch Immersion hat. Und dann haben wir gesagt, ja, kann nicht sein. Und dann gehst Du irgendwie auf die Suche, findest irgendwie jetzt nicht einfach son Drop in Replacement. Und dann kam so der Punkt, ja, ich hab zu Corona schon mal eine eine Plattform gebaut, da ging's Live- und Streaming von Fitnesskursen für so selbstständige Fitnesstrainerinnen, Trainer. Sagt, ja, die die Technologie, die Pipeline haben wir irgendwie noch so in 'ner Schublade liegen. Wir wissen eigentlich, wie's geht. Lass doch mal probieren. Und dann war Kunde 1, Phantasialand, dann kam Agenturkunde 2, Agenturkunde 3. Und dann denkst Du, ja okay, eigentlich würde ich dann nicht mal probieren, da jetzt was was 1 draus zu machen. Vielleicht brauchen sie ja noch mehr. Und dann haben wir 'n Prototypen gebaut und dann ist 'n Produkt draus geworden. Bevor wir darüber sprechen, wie ihr das gebaut habt und was so die Architektur da hinten dran ist, würd mich vielleicht noch ganz kurz interessieren, wie das Gespräch mit euren Kunden gelaufen ist. Weil ich kann mir schon vorstellen, dass dieser, also Du hast ja, dich hatte sich das gestört aus so dieser Emissionsperspektive sozusagen, ja. Aber das ist ja nicht was, wofür jeder Kunde im Zweifelsfall bereit ist, Geld auszugeben, so, ne. Viele gucken da vielleicht auch drauf und sagen sich, na ja, dann müssen die Leute jetzt son Cookie Banner vorher klicken, dafür muss ich für meine Videoplattform nix bezahlen, das kann einfach so bei Youtube liegen. Wie wie lief da das Gespräch und die Abwägung? Das das Schöne war in dem Fall, dass Vimeo ja auch nicht kostenlos ist, vor allem, wenn Du jetzt irgendwie 'n bisschen mehr Video durchballerst als jetzt irgendwie so halt sone Miniwebsite. Das heißt, der erste Ansatz war zu sagen, okay, wir wissen noch nicht ganz genau, was uns das Ganze kostet, weil wir sagen einfach mal, wir matchen den Preis und machen's dann dafür. Und zum Glück in dem Fall ist halt der Kunde auch super empfänglich für das ganze Thema Immersion Experience steht bei denen super oben auf der Prioritätenliste. Und dann hatten wir tatsächlich in dem Fall eigentlich wenig Überzeugungsarbeit zu leisten. Und vielleicht kannst Du dann mal für die, die jetzt nicht so viel mit Video und Embedden auf Homepages so was zu tun haben, so. Was aber halt so gemeint hat, man hat jetzt irgendwie geschaut, okay, wo gibt's noch andere Anbieter außer wie Meo so? Jetzt hat man jetzt ja ganz Pläne Use Case so einfach, na ja, dann dann ist das halt einfach auf meinem Server und wir machen halt nicht und die machen Streaming so, kann man, wenn da oben so Preview Videos sind, dann müssen wir halt so klein komprimieren, dass es irgendwie funktioniert. Also was war denn, wie habt ihr's denn am Ende gelöst, bis ihr nach Kunde 3 dann gesagt habt, so, jetzt bauen wir vielleicht mal doch eine Lösung dafür? Also es gibt natürlich auch immer die, ich sag mal, die kleinen Lösungen, weil man jetzt irgendwie mal 'n kleines Videoschnipsel hat, was irgendwo im Hintergrund in 'nem Loop abspielen soll und dann speise ich halt eine eine MP4 irgendwo hin, die ist dann, hast dann dann 5 Sekunden Loop und dann ist die irgendwie klein, so, safe ist überhaupt kein kein großes Ding. Wenn man dann, ich sag mal, wenn das Ganze anspruchsvoller wird, gibt's eigentlich mehrere Hebel, wo man dann an den Punkt kommt, dass man eigentlich vielleicht 'n Videohoster einsetzen will, der's irgendwie besser skaliberer macht. Es ist, sobald erstens sehr viel Videocontent ausgespielt wird, weil Traffic ist an sich erst mal eine teure Ressource im Netz. Es wird sehr viel, ist sehr günstig im Hosting Bereich, aber ab irgend 'nem Punkt hält dann doch jeder die Hand auf, wenn Du ordentlich Traffic durchballerst, wenn man mal in den Hosting Verträgen dann so ins Kleingedruckte guckt, stehen da dann doch irgendwelche Gigabyte Zahlen, die man vielleicht nicht dauerhaft überschreiten darf. Das hatten wir letztens bei bei Word beziehungsweise letzten Mal unsere Kosten für die Google Cloud durch und erst gesehen, wie viel Kosten wir dafür haben, dass wir die Profilbilder von in 'nem im anzeigen so. Es ist keine vernachlässigbare Größe. Ich mein, da haben wir jetzt 'n paar der Technik Abschaffen. Einfach abschaffen, ja. Sind paar Sachen verändert. Ich mein, war mal nicht so gut aufgestellt, aber wieder waschen waschen interessant, wie groß dieser Faktor ist. Crabt man sich vorher gar nicht so ganz an, ne? Ja, also das ist ein Faktor, das ist dann aber für die Kunden, die sehr viel Durchsatz haben. Und der andere Faktor ist einfach die die Performance auch, also auch Ladezeiten. Das heißt, alles, was irgendwie jetzt mal über 4, 5, 6 Sekunden Länge geht, will man in der Regel dann, wenn's irgendwie geht, adaptiv streamen. Das heißt, nicht eine dicke m p 4 dahinballern, sondern das Ganze wird dann automatisch im Encodingprozess in kleine Chunks unterteilt und Aber auch das könnt ich ja Startstoff mal im Server machen. Kann man alles, genau. Einfach alle möglichen Auflösungen und Schnipsel hinschmeißen. Genau, wär's auch. Absolut. Absolut. Und als, ich sag mal, als Entwickler oder als jemand, der die die technische Expertise mitbringt, so was zu tun, hält mich ja erst mal grundsätzlich nehmen wir davon ab, irgendwas selbst zu bauen. Ich glaub, weiß ich nicht, wir sind ja, also, ne, ne, wir haben alle irgendwie 'n technischen Hintergrund, wir sind alle irgendwie Spielkinder auch in der Hinsicht. Das heißt, man hat ja auch manchmal Bock drauf, dann so was zu bauen und kann ich niemandem verübeln. Für die meisten Kunden ist es dann ja eher, ja, jetzt jetzt da, wenn die Agentur dran setzen oder irgendwie intern Personal dran setzen, etwas zu bauen, was andere jetzt schon fertig hier haben Und dann, keine Ahnung, kann man da auch zu uns kommen und irgendwie ab 9 Euro im Monat sich 'n Hosting Paket holen. Dafür, also muss man schon erst 'n, muss man sehr schnell sein oder die, ja, selbst mit selbst mit KI, Du brauchst Encoding, Du musst die Pipelines. Es ist nicht so einfach zu replizieren. Ja. Aber Spaß macht's trotzdem, also wer will. Und ihr habt ja auch, also so wie ich mir das vorstelle, großes Projekt, Fantasialand, das ist ja auch nicht nur ein Video, sondern das hängt ja wahrscheinlich an 'nem CMS, die wollen das Video mal tauschen, da ist so saisonaler Content irgendwie drauf. Das heißt, die wollen ja auch jetzt nicht alle 3 Wochen wieder da die Pipeline anschmeißen, sondern die wollen das ja vielleicht in 'nem CMS sein, wo das einfach irgendwo hingeladen wird und dann ist fertig oder so. Nee, genau. Der der reine das reine Handling 1 einzelnen Videodatei ist ja irgendwie easy. Das wird ja dann spaßiger, wenn Du eben erstens über xhundert Videos sprichst, die halt auch noch verwaltbar haben willst, ans CMS angedockt, austauschbar, ohne dass Du jetzt irgendwie jedes Mal wieder auch Code anfassen musst. Du willst vielleicht automatisch dir euer Untertitel generieren, das transkribieren lassen, übersetzen lassen. Du willst vielleicht auch den Player fertig haben mit gewissen Accessibility Standards. Also da hängt dann irgendwie viel dran, was dann eher sich den den Prozess auch dreht, Videos gut und schnell auf auf 'ner Plattform irgendwie drauf zu haben. Mhm. Und jetzt hast Du gesagt, ihr hattet quasi den Vorteil, dass ihr schon ein anderes Videoportal hattet, was ihr quasi als Ausgangssituation nehmen konntet für Ignite. Was war da so die die technische Grundlage? Was war schon da und was hat euch da noch gefehlt, als ihr dann quasi angefangen habt? Also die technische Grundlage war relativ straight forward. Das war eher so, ich hab sozusagen das irgendwie das Cloud Format Template für für die das Ding schon mal, also für den kompletten Prozess, den Prozess Upload, Trigger, Encoding läuft durch. Es werden x Auflösung generiert von 4 k runter bis 240 p. Es wird 'n Thumbnail rausgezogen, so das, was wenn man jetzt von 0 anfängt, vielleicht auch so mal die die erste Woche 2 Uhr rumprobieren ist, bis man mal zu 'ner Lösung kommt. Das war da, das hat einfach nur die erste Hürde gesenkt. Ansonsten ist der Ansatz jetzt so und war so oder ist auch immer noch so, dass wir für jeden für jeden Kunden, der sozusagen Videos hostet, bekommt man 'n eigenen Cloud Storage, 'n 'n s 3 Bucket. Davor kommt eine eigene CDN Distribution mit entweder 'ner 'ner Subdomain, die jetzt generisch dann von uns kommt, so was wie Kundenname Punkt und wir haben dann die EU Video CDN Punkt com, Zertifikat und vor allem auch eine Infrastrukturuserebene, die auf den Kundenstorage abgeschirmt ist, sodass kein kein Dataschharing auch zwischen den Kunden stattfinden kann. Das war dann schon so die, sag mal, die Extrapolation des der der Technologiepipeline, die wir damals gebaut hatten, weil da, wie gesagt, im im Enterprise Videobereich ist ja auch nicht anders. Du beauftragst jemanden, der macht dir dein Storage deine Domain, setzt das alles händisch auf. Und die Idee war dann, okay, schaffen wir das nicht pro Kunden, das zu replizieren? Das hat dann funktioniert, zu dem Zeitpunkt halt noch, ich sag mal, manuell, semi manuell. Und der der Clou war dann eigentlich zu schauen, schaffen wir es, das zu automatisieren, in den Self Service zu bringen, sodass wir nicht nur händisch die großen Agentur- und Enterprisekunden zu uns holen können und denen das einrichten können, sondern dass wir sagen können, Du gehst auf unsere Website, stellst dir 'n Account und all das passiert wirklich auf Infrastrukturebene vollautomatisch in Echtzeit, in live ohne Verzögerung und Du hast dann dein Videohosting. Und das vielleicht auch, damit ich's vielleicht noch mal in meinen Worten wiederholen, vielleicht für die auch mal wiederhol, die auch gar nicht jetzt datenschutzmäßig, warum, was jetzt genau in Vimeo schlecht ist und an euch gut, wenn man so ist. Also wenn ich's versteh, der große Unterschied ist eigentlich nur, wenn man's runterbricht, wenn ich auf Vimeo was hoste, dann liegt mein Video bei Vimeo. Das heißt, man hat immer mit dem Vimeo Server Kontakt. Und genau deswegen haben wir das Problem, dass wir ab da dann, weil sie dafür auch okay setzen müssen und so weiter, irgendwie einen Einwilligung brauchen. Und ihr habt eine Infrastruktur gebaut, wo am Ende, wenn ich etwas hoste, am Ende die Infrastruktur meine ist. Ihr seid sozusagen nur der Layer, durch den aus ich diese eigene Infrastruktur konfigurieren, die ganzen Features automatisiert hinpacke oder wie. Was ist so, vielleicht auch grad am Anfang als ich hingegangen, ihr habt euch wahrscheinlich Vimeo angeguckt und ihr werdet, okay, was ist bei was was macht Vimeo, was wir anders tun müssen, dieses Banner nicht mehr zu haben? Ja. Also die, das den Cookie Banner loszuwerden, ist die Grundvoraussetzung eigentlich simpel, man darf keine personenbezogenen Daten von den Websitebesuchern, die die Videos konsumieren, erfassen und verarbeiten. Mhm. Immer wenn das stattfindet, brauchst Du vorher den Content. Also ich als Besucher, als Bruder Du, als Besucher kommst auf meine Website, ich zeig dir 'n Video, das nicht direkt bei mir liegt als First Party, sondern bei 1 dritten Partei, nämlich wir zum Beispiel auch oder Vimeo oder Youtube. Und wenn ich dann dadurch sozusagen dich dazu zwinge, dass deine personenbezogenen dann an diese Drittpartei gehen, dann muss ich vorher fragen, bevor ich das tue mit dem Cookie Banner. Mhm. Und ich muss dir erlauben, abzulehnen. Und dann siehst Du halt entweder kein Video und unsere Technologie kommt halt komplett ohne die Verarbeitung, die Erfassung von personenbezogenen Daten aus und damit ist sie sozusagen dann consentfrei. Und das ist erst mal der Grundgedanke. Der der der Rest ist sozusagen, also die Trennung von wirklich dem Storage auch ist das, was wir noch mal oben drauf gesetzt haben, die Sache aus unserer Sicht wirklich rundzumachen, wirklich da auch keine, auch die Videodaten der Kunden nicht nicht miteinander zu durchmischen und so weiter. Das heißt, ihr habt jetzt kein son klassisches Multitenant System gebaut, sondern es wird schon für jeden Kunden sone eigene Infrastruktur Umgebung geboostrappt in dem Moment, wo er sich anmeldet. Genau, zumindest was die Videoausspielung angeht. So die die, das ist eine eine Applikation, aber so gesehen ist es schon irgendwie Multi Tenant, aber ja, jeder Kunde hat eine eigene Content Delivery Pipeline, wenn man's mal so sehen will. Und seinen eigenen S-drei-Bucket und Genau. Überhaupt. Ja, ist auch der Player zum Beispiel. Also das ist dann eine statische Applikation, eine ganz kleine, die wir dann vorher bilden. Und die wird dann in jeden Bucket von jedem Kunden rein deployed. Das ist alles aus seinem aus seiner Domain Space geladen werden. Genau. Und der der Vorteil ist halt, dass wir auch gar keine eigene Server Middleware zwischen Bucket und CDN haben müssen, die irgendwie hops gehen kann bei gewisser Last. Das heißt, wir können bis zur Belastungsgrenze des CDN und des Storage kann kann da drauf geballert werden. Eigentlich kann das Ding nicht umfallen, es sei denn, die die Gesamtinfrastruktur bricht irgendwie in sich zusammen, aber dann hat das 'n jetzt andere Probleme als paar Videos. Und das das macht das extrem robust und sorgt noch mal auch zusätzlich dafür, dass wir auch gar nicht die sozusagen gar nicht die die Chance haben, jetzt irgendwie direkt da im größeren Maße Daten abzugreifen. Aber auch das CDN muss ja erst mal irgendwo herkommen. Genau. So. Und das habt ihr ja wahrscheinlich nicht selber gebaut, weil das ist ja auch relativ teuer und aufwendig so, ja. Sondern auch da müsst ihr irgendwie den nutzen. Wie war da die Suche nach 'nem Dienstleister dafür, der eure Vorstellung von teilt? Genau. Kompliziert, sag ich mal, weil wir dadurch, dass wir auf diese Abwicklung des ganzen Infrastruktur Set ups per API angewiesen sind am Ende des Tages, also wir sind jetzt aktuell haben wir irgendwie 700 plus Accounts bei uns im System von Kunden. Das heißt, wir verwalten irgendwie 700 plus buckets, 700 plus CDN Distribution, I m user, what soever. Am Ende sind wir jetzt aktuell bei der Auslieferungspipeline bei ABS mit s 3 und mit Cloud Front als CDN, das auszuspielen. Und haben immer mal jetzt wieder Versuche auch mit mit anderen Services da gemacht, aber am Ende kommst Du bei der Skalierung nicht drum rum, irgendjemand zu, also am Ende landest Du wieder bei einem von den Hyperskalern, wenn Du diese diesen Grad an API Fähigkeit zu haben auf dem Niveau, wie wir's irgendwie brauchen. Und dann dann bist Du da. Und da funktioniert's allerdings auch wirklich sehr, sehr gut. Und jetzt können wir sagen, oh klar, AWS, also erstens klar, die die Daten liegen irgendwie dann in in Frankfurt davon und so weiter. Jetzt gibt's irgendwie grade wieder sehr das Thema Cloud Act und was ist denn wenn und so weiter, wenn da irgendjemand 'n Durchgriff stattfinden sollte. Der Clou am System ist halt einfach, dass gar keine personenbezogenen Daten erfasst werden, wenn jemand 'n Video guckt. Also gibt's auch nichts zu schützen in dem Sinne, was, da ist einfach nichts und Und vielleicht, das wär ja vorhin noch mal eine Frage gewesen, weil Du ja meintest, so eigentlich dieser Part mit eigener Infrastruktur und so was, das war das das und eigentlich erst mal gar nicht dafür notwendig, dass ich diesen Cookie Banner entferne. Kannst Du vielleicht mal probieren, uns möglichst einfach zu erklären, was ist denn grundsätzlich notwendig oder was, wenn man jetzt mal s 3 und diese ganzen technischen Finessen irgendwie weglässt, so, was ist denn das, was die Meeo erhebt, was ihr nicht erhebt? Und warum macht das vielleicht Meeo und warum ihr, na gut, warum ihr nicht, wissen wir. Aber was sind das für oder was was müsstet ihr tun in der einfachsten Form, das hinzustellen, ohne dass ihr jetzt diese Infrastruktur genauso baut? Ja. Also warum ist immer eine gute Frage. Und das fängt ja auch, wie gesagt, Youtube zum Beispiel ist eigentlich auch klar, dass deren Interesse ist ja, dass sie zum Beispiel Informationen über Personen sammeln, an die dann Werbung ausgespielt werden können. Das heißt, sie brauchen diese personenbezogenen Daten. Sie wollen einen Cookie bei den Leuten setzen, damit sie sie mit Werbung targetnen können. Ja. Ist das das Kerninteresse so wie Meu hat auch irgendwie 'n Teil davon davon als Geschäftsmodell, wobei sie sich da irgendwie jetzt mehrfach auch verändert haben, weil letztendlich tun sie am Ende dasselbe und erfassen halt auch den den Nutzer und stellen damit dann irgendwas an. Keine Ahnung, ob's dann da noch Data Reselling gibt, bei einigen ja, bei anderen nein, ist immer schwierig zu sagen von außen. Fakt ist, dass da diese Daten verarbeitet werden und es ist ja wie im Website Tracking, ist genau dasselbe Thema, also Website Analytics. Google Analytics kannst Du auch nicht consentfrei betreiben, da bist Du dann auch irgendwie bei entweder was selbstgehosteten oder bei so Plausible oder Simple Analytics, Matomo whatever. Und die kriegen's ja auch hin, 'n gescheites Website Analytics ohne Personenbezug hinzukriegen. Und Google irgendwie auch nicht. Warum, weiß ich nicht, weil anscheinend, dass der Default Mode im Web grade bei den großen Anbietern so ist, dass sie alles über alle wissen wollen. Er schließt sich mir aber nicht, weil ich ja eigentlich denke, zum Beispiel dieses, ich möchte auch einfach nur meine Videos auf meiner Webseite haben, Punkt. Wieso müssen dafür personenbezogene Daten von meinen Besuchern an jemand Dritten gehen? Ja. Aber ist das wirklich so einfach oder vielleicht müssen wir kurz darüber sprechen, was personenbezogene Daten da wirklich sind, weil Vimeo trackt ja nicht nur für das Marketing, sondern ja auch für die Funktionalität, ne. Also funktioniert der Player, mit welcher Auflösung wird da gespielt? Die wollen ja auch son bisschen systemischer Analytics irgendwie haben am Ende des Tages und da seid ihr ja auch drauf angewiesen. Genau, aber dafür brauch ich ja eigentlich keinen Personenbezug. Den kann ich ja weglassen. Das weiß ich, ich sag so, müssen wir vielleicht darüber sprechen, was personenbezogen heißt an der Stelle, ne. Wenn ich wissen will, ob's immer bei demselben User nicht funktioniert, ist das dann schon 'n Personenbezug oder nicht? Also was könnt auch ihr jetzt noch erfassen und wo hört das dann bei euch auf, genau? Das ist tatsächlich immer ein Stretch für uns. Was wir nicht so einfach machen können, ist dann zum Beispiel aus unserem Player jetzt direkt auch da wieder fürs Tracking oder fürs Analytics einen Server API aufzurufen, sondern wir machen das dann entweder indirekt über die, wo bei uns auch in den Logs keine IPs und kein kein User Agent drinstehen beziehungsweise 'n gestripter User Agent. Und darüber können wir dann so was ermitteln wie wie wir beim Podcast sozusagen das Downloads Äquivalent, also Aufrufe, so gut gecleaned, wie's irgendwie geht. Wir können auch serverseitig dann natürlich sehen, wie viel Video Traffic abgerufen wurde. Und wenn's dann darüber hinausgeht, da sind wir jetzt grade dran, dass wir dann ein ein anonymes Signal sozusagen an eine an eine leere Telemetriedatei schicken, wo wir dann über die URL Parameter dranhängen. Jetzt hat ein Play stattgefunden. Jetzt hat ein Passwort stattgefunden. Jetzt sind wir bei 80 Prozent, jetzt sind wir bei 90 Prozent, 100 Prozent abgespielt, auch diese Metriken bereitstellen zu können, aber eben ohne Personenbezug. Und dann kannst Du natürlich nicht so was wie Sessions da sagen oder nicht sagen, bei diesem User ist jetzt dieses Problem aufgetreten. Diese Daten stehen dir dann einfach schlicht nicht zur Verfügung. Also Du kannst nicht die IP Adresse dann, Du könntest sie Es gibt immer so dieses mit berechtigte Interesse und dann gibt's da irgendwie auch Zeiten und dann wird sagt man irgendwie, 48 Stunden kannste noch. Das hatten wir in den ersten Monaten. Mittlerweile verzichten wir komplett auf die auch auf die IP Adresse in den in den Logs und in den Daten. Schränkt 'n bisschen ein, aber wir versuchen einfach die Finger, so gut es geht oder wir versuchen, wieder komplett vom Person bezogen da anzulassen, so. Nicht Es gibt sozusagen 'n paar Dinge, also so was, wie was vorher gemacht hast, Cookie, ihr setzt einfach explizit das nicht. Dann gibt's aber auch 'n paar Dinge, die ihr bekommen würdet, aber explizit sozusagen filtern müsst, wie IP Adressen, dass sie nicht in Logs landen, wie wie den User Agent. Das heißt, da müsst ihr wirklich aktiv was tun, beim anderen tut ihr's einfach nicht, sozusagen lasst einfach die Finger davon so. Und gibt's außer IP und User Agent noch irgendwas, was ihr, wenn jetzt 'n an euren Server kommt, was ihr noch filtern müsst? Nee, tatsächlich sind's eigentlich die beiden Dinge. Zum Glück nimmt da auch jetzt über auch über die letzten Monate die Möglichkeiten in der Infrastrukturkonfiguration zu, dass man da zum Beispiel die IP Adresse jetzt mittlerweile einfach wegklicken kann bei den. Dann macht, passiert das schon auf Infrastrukturebene. Macht's uns einfacher, müssen wir keinen keinen Listener laufen haben, der die Logs immer sofort auf die IP Adresse reinigt, sondern die sind dann, also kann man eben dann sich schon vorher weg wegkonfigurieren, das ist nice. Aber nee, das sind eigentlich die die beiden Dinge. Alles andere, klar, ne, wenn man wenn man will, könnte man shady Dinge tun und versuchen irgendwie son bisschen versteckt irgendwo im Browser wieder was abzulegen. Dann, keine Ahnung, beim Local Storage guckt weder dann nur jeder dritte Datenschutzbeauftragte nach oder weiß nicht was. Aber also Dinge, die wir nicht tun, aber es gibt natürlich immer Tricks. Wenn man mal so, wenn man mal guckt, wer was wo so ablegt bei sich aufm System, ist das manchmal auch ganz, ganz interessant. Das Einzige, was dann manchmal am Local Storage abgelegt wird im Player, sind, wenn zum Beispiel 'n Nutzer hergeht und in seinen barrierefrei, also in seinen Accessability Einstellungen im Player die Schriftgröße sagt, ja, ich möcht das 'n bisschen größer haben. Dann landet das im Local Storage. Aber ohne ohne, dass das irgendwie an uns geht oder wie er darauf dann Ja. Dann zugreifen und aus, da steht dann halt, 14 p x. Da können wir keinen keinen Bezug draus herstellen. Und vielleicht kannst Du noch mal, weil wir jetzt die Infrastruktur noch gar nicht so ganz zu Ende erzählt haben, vielleicht kannst Du uns da noch mal den noch mal die Zusammenfassung geben, weil Du meinst, also wir haben verstanden, okay, S3, dann habt ihr 'n CDN da vorne dran, das ist ja eigentlich eine Infrastruktur eurer Kunden. Da hast Du aber auch von 'nem Player in der Website gesprochen, der dann eingebunden werden kann, der wiederum mit euren Servern kommuniziert. Also vielleicht kannst Du uns da noch mal die Komponenten erklären oder was da genau, wo eigentlich dieser, von dem ihr jetzt IP Adresse und User Agent wegstript, was genau dieser oder wo der landet so? Genau, also es ist alles das liegt in dieser in dieser Kette, den den die dem Kunden zugeordnet ist. Also, da liegen die Videoassets drin, da liegen die Thumbnails drin, die man hochlädt, da liegen die Untertiteldateien drin, die entweder generiert werden oder hochgeladen werden. Und der Player liegt alles in diesem Speicher und davor liegt der CDN Endpunkt, der aus diesem Speicher ausspielt. So, dann machen wir da eine Menge Access Rights Themen, dass wir wirklich, wenn ein Video gepublisht wird, auf Dateiebene Access Rights gegeben werden, damit die Datei von außen zugegriffen werden kann oder eben nicht, weil wir da ja auch wieder nicht mit Server Middleware sprechen. Das heißt, es gibt diesen dieses, der Player spricht nicht mit 'nem Server von uns. Der Videoplayer spricht nur mit diesem statischen Speicher. Deswegen gibt es dann auch zum Beispiel zu den zu den Videos, zu jedem Video gibt es dann Data Json, damit nicht unsere API angefragt werden muss, wenn irgendwas gemacht wird, sondern diese statische Datei gelesen wird, die wir von hinten sozusagen dann aktualisieren, sobald 'n Nutzer den Titel 1 Video Videos ändert. Das heißt aber eigentlich, lernen diese Logs und so was, wenn Du sprichst, wo irgendwie IP Adresse und dann auch User Engine drin, dann wird ja eigentlich in der Infrastruktur des eures Kunden und jetzt immer die Frage, warum muss das Nee, nee, nee, genau. In der Infrastruktur von ABS. Genau, genau und in unserer Infrastruktur. Das heißt, wir wir vermieten dann sozusagen diese Infrastruktur an den Kunden als Service, aber die ist ja in unserem Zugriff. Also die liegt nicht im Account. Nämlich konnte, weil theoretisch, wenn ich meinen eigenes Service auf ABS hoste und so was unter IP Adressen drin sind, dann bin ich ja erst mal noch nicht verpflichtet, dafür irgendwie einen einen Content Banner zu zeigen, so wenn's meiner wenn's mein eigener Service ist, den ich bei ABS hostet. Deswegen war der Punkt, den ich nicht so ganz verstanden hatte. Wenn es, also er liegt, weil weil aber dieser Service bei euch liegen, sie werden vermietet an an den Kunden, aber ihr theoretisch den Zugriff darauf habt, dass es sozusagen der, die Finesse Type das tun müsstet. Genau, deswegen sind wir ja auch irgendwie 'n Subprozessor in dieser in dieser Kette. Aber deswegen muss man halt gucken, dass halt diese Daten gar nicht gar nicht anfallen. Aber es ist tatsächlich immer auch gar nicht so leicht zu definieren und da tun sich auch irgendwie dann die die Datenschutzbeauftragten schwer, weil für dein Webhosting, das ist dann ja auch deins. Und letztendlich machen wir auch nichts anderes als sozusagen statisches Datehhosting nach außen dieser Videos anzubieten. Aber wie ist es denn, wenn ihr am Ende jetzt ja trotzdem Infrastruktur von 'nem Hyperscale nutzt, egal ob das jetzt bei AWS oder bei Google oder sonst irgendwo liegt, ne, und ihr vielleicht jetzt nicht in eurem Cloud Foundation Template irgendwie IP Adressen mitlockt oder so was, ja. Aber AWS kann es ja trotzdem machen. Weil ich mein, am Ende landen diese in AWS Infrastruktur oder bei Google oder sonst irgendwo, ne. Und die haben ja bestimmt trotzdem Interesse, das irgendwie mitzuloggen, weil sie am Ende, weiß nicht, DDoS Protection machen müssen oder also legitimes Interesse jetzt ab ganz ab von Marketing und so was alles, ja. Einfach nur für den Betrieb von der Plattform. Das ist dann aber für euch an der Stelle kein Beinbruch? Du kannst Du ja nichts dran machen. Also dazwischen ist es Ja, ja, Du musst trotzdem auch nicht eure Kunden dann drauf hinweisen oder so. Also das alleine würde jetzt den den Cookie Banner zum Beispiel noch nicht triggern. Genau, genau. Aber das ist die gleiche Problematik, die wir ja auch haben, die hat ja jeder, wenn Du Ja, weil wir haben ja auch 'n Cookie Banner. Uns ist ja sozusagen egal, weil wir können ja alles miteinander reinschmeißen. Ja, aber erst mal nicht, deswegen nur weil wir bei Google des Google das Ganze hosten. Wenn wir jetzt keine Excellen Service haben, nur weil wir unseren Service hosten, das sind ja wirklich die Daten, die sozusagen auch offiziell bei uns liegen. Was da drin liegt, ist, gehört sozusagen uns und das wird nicht betrachtet, wie wir schicken das einen an einen dritten Dienstleister. So, wir haben diesen Cookie Banner ja drin wegen anderen Services, wir dann nutzen können. Nee, ich glaub, ich glaub, Du hast mich verstanden. Es geht nicht darum, dass jetzt zum Beispiel bei uns die die Profilbilder bei Google liegen und deshalb quasi Google Fotos von uns hat, sondern in dem Moment, wo bei unserem Spiel auf so ein Profilbild zugreifen wird, landet ja die IP Adresse von dem Zuggreifenden trotzdem bei Google. Genau. Ist egal, ob wir die mitprotokollieren oder nicht. Aber wenn wir nur Google als Service drin hätten, bräuchten wir keinen Cookie Banner dafür, weil wir hosten ja unsere Infrastruktur bei Google. Wir haben diese Cookie Banner drin wegen anderen Services, nicht weil wir auf Google hosten und deswegen meine ich nur, diese Problematik hat man ja hat ja jeder, der da hostet, sonst wäre ja nur, weil ich, wenn ich meine, sobald ich meine Infrastruktur nicht selbst hoste, muss ich etwas anzeigen und das ist ja nicht die Welt da draußen. So deswegen würde ich sagen, das ist das gleiche Beispiel wie bei uns auch. Du sagst, das ist nicht die Welt da draußen, aber für mich war das grade mit 'nem Fragezeichen, weil also gefühlt hat ja de facto jeder son Cookie Banner da draußen, ja. Und was da genau jetzt der ausschlaggebende Grund ist, warum man das initial mal eingeführt hat, das weiß ja wahrscheinlich heute, also wissen die Allerwenigsten noch so, oder? Oder? Aber es gibt und es gab oder gibt ja auch tatsächlich dieser dieser Unterhaltung, ist sozusagen die Präsenz 1 Webseite grundsätzlich eigentlich konsenpflichtig? Also musst Du und dann wird's natürlich irgendwie auch absurd. Das ist dann so wie dieses, Du kaufst dir 'n Kaffee und da steht drauf, Achtung, heiß. Denkst Du, ja, danke Sherlock dafür, weil Und es gibt Leute, die die sehen das vielleicht so, es gibt die, also es gibt's jetzt aber nicht her, es sind konsenfreie Webseiten möglich. Aber prinzipiell funktioniert ja so nun mal das Web, dass jetzt zumindest die IP Adresse bei jedem Request mitgeschickt wird. Dann kannst Du 'n VPN nutzen, dann geht's bis zum VPN, danach ist es eine andere, aber selbst bis zum VPN geht dann deine IP Adresse. Das heißt, dann hat sie nicht Google, AWS, die Telekom, Vodafone, die Netzbetreiber, die haben sie sowieso. Ja. Aber dann hat sie halt deinen VPN Betreiber und brauchst Du den Also ohne die IP Adresse funktioniert das Internet halt nicht. Und deswegen ist, glaub ich, auch son bisschen dieses IP Adressen Thema in diesem Bereich des berechtigten Interesses etwas lockerer gehandhabt, weil's glaub ich sonst. Also dann kannst Du den Laden zumachen, wenn dann dann dann kann sie nichts mehr vernünftig benutzen. Euren Infrastrukturanbieter nicht als irgendwie Subprocessor ausweisen oder so? Doch, doch, natürlich, natürlich. Okay. Ja, das das ist der Fall. Also Du kannst auch mit uns kriegst son AVV, wo dann genau drinsteht, wo unsere Daten liegen, also Subprocessor. Und oft ist es ja auch so, wenn wenn sozusagen Webhosting an sich auch von HTML Dateien, was auch immer so, ne, von deiner eigenen Webseite sozusagen konsenspflicht wäre, dann hättest Du auf jeder Webseite hinterher 'n Content Banner, weil wer betreibt ja noch seine Server so wirklich selbst selbst? Und dann ist ja vielleicht der, dann ist der Netzanschluss der Fall, dann ist es, ne, dann ist es die Telekom Aber Du wirst lachen. Also meine Webseite liegt bei GitHub oder GitLab, weil ich geizig bin und die das für mich umsonst hosten so. Und als das das, als sie irgendwann mal gerefactet hab und so bla, da kamen Leute auf mich zu haben, so, ja, aber Du musst ja darauf hinweisen, dass das irgendwie auf auf GitHub Infrastruktur liegt und so. Also es gibt Leute, die sind son bisschen Ja, gut, weil das nur noch paranoide. Zwischen Datenschutzerklärung, wo Du's irgendwie reinschreibst und der Unterschied, ob das 'n ob Du 'n Content dafür brauchst. Also das ist ja dann, Du musst trotzdem reinschreiben, wo das Ganze liegt. Eine Datenschutzerklärung brauchst Du, aber eben nicht den Content dafür einholen. Ja, da ist Datenschutzerklärung wichtig und da gehören auch wir rein und dann, ne, gibt's wieder da Subprozessoren, Subprozessoren, Subprozessoren. Und dann guckt man in die Subprozessorliste von den Hyperscellern oder auch von anderen Hostern auch, whatever, dann ist die auch wieder lang bis hin zum irgendwie, weiß ich nicht, Rechenzentrumsbetreiber, der der oft auch noch hintersteht, weil der auch oft dann die Rechenzentren an sich, jetzt ist vielleicht bei den Hyperskellern anders, aber die sind dann auch oft ausgelagert und irgendwo eingemietet. Und ja, also das Aber Ich finde dieses Thema auch so, ich hab die auch 'n paar kleinere Bilder zu entwickeln, unter anderem die für die Praxis von meiner von meiner Frau. Und da ist auch so, also ich, meiner Meinung nach bin ich fein damit, dass ich dann nur eine Datenschutzerklärung hab und keinerlei Content so, aber ist halt auch so, ich hab das jetzt auch noch nie. Oh, jetzt hast Du's hier laut gesagt, Fabi, jetzt gehen alle auf die Webseite und Ja, genau, morgen. Morgen. Feedback, wenn ihr wenn ihr das anders seht. Also ich sag jetzt, wenn ihr müsst schon in die Arbeit reinstecken, welche Seite das ist und dann gebt mal gerne Feedback, ob ihr denkt, dass ich da was falsch mache. Aber dann mich nicht gern gerne nirgendwo anschwätzt, sondern mir Bescheid geben. Ja. Weil das ist ja auch so das Ding, man, also man sollte es schon vernünftig machen. Ich denk halt einfach für die meisten Dinge, grade Drittanbieter brauchen gar nicht in diesem Umfang immer diese personenbezogenen Daten. Klar, auch Marketer sind natürlich drauf aus, mehr über ihre Zielgruppe zu lernen, immer mehr zu wissen und man braucht irgendwie auch 'n Web Analytics, logisch. Menschen ja, ich mein, wir wollen auch unser Produkt natürlich irgendwie unters unters Volk bringen logischerweise, aber da zumindest zu gucken, was gibt es denn für Optionen, die halt einfach ohne diesen Zusatzbezug auskommen, halt am Ende, wo's ja uns drum geht, es irgendwie das Web wieder benutzbarer zu machen, eben vielleicht mal auf einen Pfad zu kommen, wo, wenn jemand dann konsenfrei Analytiktool hat, 'n konsenfreies Videohosting und was auch immer man sonst noch so gerne hat, 'n konsenfreies Capture, all diese Dinge sind ja alle sonst konsenpflichtig, konsenfreies Kartentool für die für die Kontaktseite, dass man mal wieder auf eine Webseite geht und nicht erst diese Tapete wegklicken muss, die einem halt da entgegengeschmissen wird. Jetzt ist die die Wünsche von euren Kunden und den den Marketer, so ist ja das eine. Eure Entwickler oder ihr selbst seid ja auch erst mal die erste Zielgruppe sozusagen davon. Wie oft habt ihr denn eine Idee für und denkt euch so, oh, das wär ja voll gut, wenn wir das bauen können. Und dann merkt ihr, ah, es geht aber gar nicht. Weil wir wollen ja contentfrei sein. Das beste Beispiel ist wahrscheinlich seit 'nem paar Monaten haben wir jetzt auch im im sozusagen mittlerweile Livestream auch auf als Funktion mit drin unter derselben Prämisse. Und da kommt natürlich von Kunden immer die Frage, gibt's 'n Chat? Gibt's irgendwie oder also, wie soll's sagen? Gibt's Interaktionsfunktionalität? Und da sind wir mal an dem Punkt, wo wir doch wo wir noch keinen Hebel haben, wo wir sagen, ja, das das können wir mit anbieten. Du könntest es vielleicht irgendwie über über Umwege machen, vollkommen unkontrolliert, ohne dass sich die Leute irgendwie ausweisen in Anführungsstrichen, aber eigentlich Liegt immer nach 'ner guten Idee. Ja, ja, genau. Sozusagen, eigentlich würd's dir mindestens mal 'n Namensfeld haben und vielleicht eine E-Mail-Adresse. Vielleicht willst Du's sogar irgendwie moderieren können und dann dann bist Du grade 'n bisschen aufgeschmissen. Das das können wir dann so nicht anbieten grade. Und das ist noch nicht gelöst. Ja, ist so, das ist zum Beispiel son Thema. Aber ist das nicht am Ende auch, also seid ihr dann wirklich so, jetzt sind wir eher in Produktdiskussionen drin so, dass ihr, theoretisch sind's ja Funktionalitäten, wenn sind's ja Funktionalitäten, wenn dann irgendwelche kommen, wo man sagt, hey, die gehen halt einfach nicht, weil es eben dafür braucht's, man will wissen, welche Person es ist, weil es für die Funktionalität notwendig ist so. Ist das, schließt es einfach kategorisch aus. So sagt ihr, gut, vielleicht wird das Produkt auch insofern dabei, dass es halt bestimmte Bereiche gibt, in denen dann dieses Privacy First eben nicht mehr gilt so und was einfach ganz klar getrennt ist. Nee, das kategorisch ausgeschlossen hat. Also das schließen wir wirklich kategorisch aus, weil wir wollen und das ist ja sehr, sehr, sehr wichtig, wir wollen das das Commitment dazu, dass unsere Lösung consentfrei ist, weil eben keine Personen mit sogenannten Daten von von euren Websitebesuchern gesammelt werden. Und wie sagt man? Ist das, glaube ich, wenn man damit irgendwie mal dann anfängt. Was wir versuchen, ist eher die, sag mal, die Interation einfacher zu machen oder es einfach zu machen, vielleicht eigene Tools oder anderes anzudocken. Ja, was Script API für den für den Player, wo man draufgehen kann, wo man listen kann, was passiert, vielleicht selbst entscheiden kann, ob 'n Formular hochploppt am Ende von 'nem Video. Auch das ist son Thema, Leads Leads sammeln in Videos, gibt's ja explizit Anbieter für, die das sozusagen anbieten. Irgendwie Gated Video Content, vorher musst Du dann irgendwie E-Mail-Adresse und irgendwas angeben und Name und dann siehst Du das Video. Nein, so das Aber was wir machen wollen, ist die Möglichkeit geben, eventuell was Eigenes obendrauf zu setzen, aber so, dass wir die Finger davon lassen können, ja. Ich hab eine doofe Zwischenfrage, weil Fabi grade gefragt hat, ob irgendwo dieses seine Grenze hat. Und nur das Wording hier einmal grade zu ziehen, was versteht ihr unter und was versteht ihr unter concentfrei? Weil man könnt ja auch einen Chat irgendwie, ne, datensparsamen, konservativ irgendwie umsetzen so, ja. Dann wäre halt nur nicht mehr consentfrei, weil ihr halt dann diese Daten verarbeiten müsst am Ende des Tages, ja. Aber hab ich das richtig verstanden, dass also dass Content war ja eigentlich das Ding ist, was für euch das Ausschlaggebende ist und nicht unbedingt der der Privacy Faktor, weil ihr seid am glücklichsten damit, wenn Privacy quasi gar nicht erst notwendig ist, weil die Daten nicht da sind. Genau. Und jetzt sag ich mal, Privacy first ist der der Marketingbegriff, unter dem man dies diese Kategorie von von Tools zusammenfassen würde wahrscheinlich, die sich dem selbst so auferlegt haben. Aber das ist kein belastbarer Begriff in dem Sinne, sondern es ist 'n, auch 'n Marketing Buzzword am Ende wahrscheinlich. Aber wenn Du dann irgendwie so googles, dann heißt das nämlich Privacy First Web Analytics, Privacy First Videohosting, so, das irgendwie ein selbstauferwähltes auferlegtes Marketinglabel. Und ihr habt das jetzt ja für Video quasi euch euch darauf spezialisiert. Ist das eine besonders schwere oder eine besonders leichte Domäne in dem Kontext? Oder wär jetzt, wenn ich jetzt sagen würde, ich will contentfreies Podcasting oder ein Privacy first CMS oder was es halt noch so alles an an gängigen Plattformen quasi da draußen gibt, wäre irgendwas davon besonders leicht oder besonders schwer umzusetzen? Also zum Thema consent freie Podcast hatten wir schon 'n paar Anfragen, weil das das eine ist ja, 'n Podcast an sich wird dann in der App gehört, gibt's ja auch keinen expliziten Content, wenn jetzt, weiß nicht, auf Apple gibt's dann oder auf iOS hast Du dann mittlerweile diesen sehr klaren App Tracking ablehnen Banner, der dann kommt. Ich weiß gar nicht, wie es auf Android geregelt ist, aber das Thema wird ja immer dann oder kommt dann auf, wenn's eben drum geht, dass Du irgendwo auf 'ner auf 'ner Webseite irgendwas einbetttest oder auf oder auf 'ner Plattform, wo dann da an 'ner Dritte wiederum gehen. Und da hatten wir dann zum Beispiel auch schon das Thema, kann ich für euch auch 'n Podcast hochladen, wenn ich den bei mir auf der Webseite einbetten will, weil der Podcastplayer, auch von irgendwie diversen deutschen Podcast Toastern, die haben dann 2 im Bett Codes auch, aber die sind auch nicht contentfrei. Ja. Und so, da sind wir jetzt auch grad 'n bisschen dran am rumdenken. Kann sein, dass es demnächst auch irgendwie noch 'n Audio only Upload gibt, ohne dass wir jetzt Podcasthoster werden, sondern eher in dem Podcast Hosting bleibt bei den Podcast Hostern. Das müsste quasi meinen meinen RSS Feed selber irgendwo anbieten, aber ich könnte euch quasi als CDN benutzen für die Auslieferung. Ja und dann so das mal gucken, ob das und wie irgendwie passiert, aber tatsächlich kommt die Frage immer mal wieder von Kunden. Bei Content Management Systemen weiß ich jetzt nicht, ist ja 'n reines Backend Thema. Ich glaub, das da stellt sich die Frage nicht so nicht so wirklich. Na ja, weiß ich gar nicht. Also es gibt ja, also wieso ist das 'n reines 'n reines Backend Thema? Auch wenn ich jetzt eine mittelgroße Zeitung bin und 'n CMS betreibt, dann wird ja jedes Bild oder so bei jedem Seitenaufruf wird ja geladen aus meiner Infrastruktur oder so. Aber Du bist ja die erste Partei. Du bist ja die First Party. Also das sind ja deine Bilder. Ja, je nachdem, wo sie halt dann liegen und so auch wieder, ne. Da sind wir wieder beim Sentintümer wie vorhin, ist das dann schon Datenübermittlung an jemand Dritten laut der Definition und beim Content nicht, weil's dann, weil Du die erste Partei bist. Auch da kann man natürlich zum Thema, was bedeutet denn First Party und Third Party? Wir bieten jetzt unseren Kunden zum Beispiel auch an, im Self Service eine eigene Domain zu connecten, damit das nicht unter, ne, irgendwie wie jetzt Youtube dot com oder so was kommt oder eben egnite Punkt so und so oder jetzt auch selbst unsere generische Domain, die mit Kundenname Punkt eu Video CDN Punkt com ist, sondern dass Du dann auch deine Videos Punkt Programmier Punkt Bar connecten kannst. Und dann Warum will ich das? Weil es dann selbst auf Network Traffic Ebene nicht mehr differenzierbar ist von deiner Domain. Das ist dann sozusagen auf der Domain Ebene First Party. Aber aber für wen ist das ausschlaggebendes Kriterium? Also wenn ich jetzt wieder bei dem Phantasialand Beispiel bleibe, ja, also ich glaub den allerwenigsten Phantasialand Webseitenbesuchern ist es wichtig, wo das herkommt. Für wen ist das aber wichtig? Ja, für den für den, der die die Seite durchsucht und guckt, was ist denn da so für 'n Tradeparty Traffic irgendwie drauf. Ah, okay. Das ist so. Und wir haben auch Kunden tatsächlich, die, also man kann nicht nur die M-Mails bei uns machen, sondern Du kannst auch einfach eine Video URL teilen. Also wenn ich dir jetzt 'n Video schicken will zum Angucken, wie Du das auf Youtube und wem auch kannst, kann ich dir, ne, Über die URL schicken. Direkt zur MP4 Datei irgendwie das Ja, oder direkt zu dem Player. Also wirklich dann auch der Player mit dem mit dem Video und dann hast Du deine eigene Domain. Das ist wie, wenn Du 'n Ding von dir selbst verschickst. Ist ja schöner dann, als wenn's jemand Drittes ist. Aber das hat so dann alles natürlich seine Ebenen. Wenn Du jetzt deine deine Bilder Assets übern CDN ausspielst, vielleicht noch mal separat von deiner von deiner eigentlichen Website, connectest ja in der Regel auch irgendwie sone Assets Punkt Sub Sub Domain von deiner eigenen Toplevel Domain im Optimalfall. Mhm. So, dasselbe Schema. Weil Du grad die Teilbarkeit von den Video URLs angesprochen hast, ist DM für euch irgend 'n Thema? Also wir bieten's nicht an und weil dafür auch sehr viel Checks hin- und herlaufen müssen. Es kommt sehr selten die Frage dazu, da ist man dann aber tatsächlich eher so im Bereich der wirklich der der Streamer mit irgendwie lizenziertem Content. Dafür sind wir dann auch die falsche Plattform. Das das ist ja 'n Thema, wo Du dann DM Server, die Signaturübermittlung, also das ist 'n sehr, das wird dann schnell sehr komplex und da sind dann ja selbst irgendwie Netflix und Co sehr hinterher, das überhaupt erst mal gescheit hinzukriegen, das sicher zu bekommen. Ja, ich könnt dir noch mal kurz erklären für alle draus nach DMS, weil ich glaub, ist nicht jedem Begriff. Okay. Genau. Also Digital Rights Management ist das das Thema. Das heißt, da geht's drum, die sozusagen den den Datenverkehr nur wirklich an Menschen zu erlauben, die auch das Recht besitzen, auf dieses Asset zuzugreifen mit sozusagen, Du, also ne, Du hast irgendwie 'n Netflix Abo und kannst dann diese ganze Verbindung, diese Kette von Netflix zu dir ist halt sicher und auf gar keinen Fall kann da irgendwas von links und rechts rein, eventuell dazwischenzugehen, diesen diesen Stream abzugreifen und der läuft dann auch dann automatisch ab, ist irgendwie gehascht. Also das, aber tiefer als das bin ich im DM Thema auch nicht drin. Vielleicht noch 'n halben Schritt zurückzugehen, wenn ich mir jetzt das durchschnittliche Youtube Video angucke oder Vimeo, dann haben die ja auch keine klassische DM Lösung, dass da irgendwie signiert das Videomaterial durch die Gegend geschoben wird oder so. Aber die machen's ihren Zuschauern ja trotzdem nicht leicht, an das Rohvideo zu kommen, auch wenn's da bestimmt Tools für gibt, irgendwie Youtube Videos runterzuladen oder so. Aber ist es auf der Ebene für euch irgendwie 'n Thema zu sagen, wir haben da schon irgendwie 'n Interesse dran, dass man jetzt nicht, weiß ich nicht, ne, im Player Rechtsklick machen kann und das Video irgendwie hier runterladen kann? Ist das für eure Kunden auch wichtig oder ist das weiß ich nicht, überhaupt gar kein Thema mehr heutzutage? Also ist schon auch wichtig, dass Ja, boah wichtig. Also ne, wir wissen, glaub ich, wenn man 'n bisschen da drin ist, wissen wir alles, was im Netz ist und irgendwie auf 'nem Bildschirm wiedergegeben wird, so nutz mach ich 'n Screenrekorder an und zeichne das auf und dann, also wenn ich's wirklich will. Ja, da da so auf der Ebene für für dich und mich und Fabian so ist das alles klar, aber für die die Kunden, die jetzt quasi zu euch kommen, legen die da irgendwie Wert darauf? Ist das für das so in deren Requirement Checkliste son Punkt, dass da steht so, boah, wenn mein Video auf ignoriert ist, dann kann da nicht jeder das irgendwie gleich runterladen oder so. Ist es, je nach Use Case, also aber grade, wenn's vielleicht jetzt irgendwie so Webinar Contest so, so spielt das eine Rolle. Und tatsächlich ist es aber, das ist dann ja auch bei bei Youtube für mich ja auch nicht anders, dadurch, dass Du dieses adaptive Streaming benutzt, machst Du's den Leuten schon mal schwieriger, das so einfach runterzuladen. Also wir nutzen den Play Ads sich auch einfach eine m p 4, sondern eben auch adaptive Streaming. Wenn Du da halt eine Stunde Video hast, musst Du halt sehr viele 6 Sekunden Chunks dir mit irgend 'nem Tool wieder zusammenschneiden und Du musst die die die Also es ist halt einfach, gibt's Tools für, ja, aber es ist jetzt nicht einfach rechte Maustaste speichern. Also das ist auch bei uns nicht der Fall und die Sicherheit ist immer relativ, aber diese diese Art der Absicherung ist auch da und ist auch wichtig, ja. Okay. Und vielleicht, wenn ihr jetzt irgendwie überlege so, ich als Hörer da draußen, der ist irgendwie hörend, der habt dich irgendwie grad reden hören über Privacy first und denk so, ja, eigentlich eigentlich hatte ich ja total recht. Ich hab keine Lust mehr auf diese auf diese Banner da und es klang jetzt gar nicht so kompliziert, was ihr jetzt gemacht habt mit darauf einfach zu achten so. Frag ich mich, ihr seid ja auch gleichzeitig noch im Agentur Business und baut Webseiten, so habt seitdem ihr dieses so Privacy First Videoplattform entwickelt, irgendwie sich euer Paradigma verändert, wie ihr dann auch grundsätzliche Applikationen baut? Also gibt es, oder andersrum gefragt, gibt es Dinge, auf die ich, wenn ich jetzt meine Seite baue, mein Produkt baue, irgendwie darauf achten kann? Gibt's 'n typisches Stack, was ihr habt, wenn ich sage, okay, Privacy first ist was, was ich gerne angehen möchte, so? Hat das hat das beeinflusst, wie ihr Produkte baut, seitdem ihr Ignite gebaut habt? Mhm. Also mittlerweile ist ja Ignite wirklich komplett getrennt, auch vom Agenturbusiness, das heißt eigener Firma. Auch ich bin da jetzt einhundert Prozent bei Ignite drin vom Fokus her. Die Agentur läuft weiter, da bin ich noch involviert, aber nicht mehr operativ so. Und nichtsdestotrotz, jetzt, sag ich mal, beim beim Videothema ist jetzt klar, welche Lösungen variiert wird. Und ansonsten hängt es natürlich gerade, da arbeiten wir jetzt auch irgendwie für sehr große Unternehmen, die kommen eigentlich immer mit 'nem Stack an Tools schon daher. Das heißt, die sagen, das ist unser Tracking, das ist unser AB-Testing Tool, das ist unser CRM, bitte rein. Aber wenn Du natürlich irgendwo hin beraten kannst, würd ich auf jeden Fall jedem raten, mal so zu schauen, wie wie sieht denn so der Tool Stack aus? Wofür gibt es vielleicht Alternativen, die eben ohne Content auskommen würden? Und hab ich vielleicht sogar die realistische Chance, ohne dass ich 'n 'n Outcome Verschlechterung hab, Tools auszutauschen und vielleicht den Cookie Banner komplett loszuwerden auf meiner Seite? Also Web Analytics, Captchas, Videos. Und da muss man schon gucken, was, weiß nicht, was habt ihr noch so auf der Webseite? Habt ihr noch was im Kopf? Targeting Pixel, also in der Google Ads Retargeting Pixel machen wir ja kein großes. Haben wir haben wir 'n Content Baller bei unserer Homepage? Ja. Was heißt das? Wir haben sonen Baller, Du musst nur mal kurz deinen deinen Cache alles löschen. Der kommt da beim ersten Besuch. Wir haben aber auch mit, was wir fürs Tracking nutzen, halt eine Lösung, die so sehr minimalistisch ist, ja. Ich muss ehrlicherweise sagen, dass wir Youtube für die Video im Bett benutzen, so, ja. Und natürlich Da hab ich unseren. Und natürlich unseren eigenen Podcast Host für die Podcasts im Bett so. Aber grade bei den Youtube Videos könnt man jetzt natürlich sagen, als das gebaut hat, war natürlich Youtube einfach so die go to go Lösung. Also da muss man auch sagen, wir haben's natürlich geschafft, über Jahrzehnte sonen MindShare irgendwie sich zu ergattern, dass jeder, der im Web irgendwas mit Video macht, da hindefaltet eigentlich, ne. Wahrscheinlich aber auch, weil es aus 'ner Zeit kommt, wo videotechnisch nicht ganz so trivial war so, ja. Also ohne jetzt eure Lösung klein zu lesen, aber heute gibt's immer hinten 'n Videoelement, was man benutzen kann, so. Ja, das gab's ja früher gar nicht. Also als ich angefangen hab mit Web Development, da war's noch Flashplayer, so, die man gebraucht hat, Fabi Videos so, ja. Fabi schmunzelt auch schon. Waren noch die schönen FLV Files, die man da vorher noch special informieren musste. Ja. Und b, Du hast dich die Flash Extension in deinem Browser erzählt und dann war's vorbei mit Videos. Und da, also da ist ja Youtube quasi groß geworden. Da war's natürlich trivial für alle zu sagen, okay, wenn wir Videos machen wollen, nehmen wir irgendwie Youtube. Und wenn ich mir jetzt anguck, okay, ich würde Ignite als als Alternative in Betracht ziehen wollen, ist, glaub ich, 'n guter Punkt, auch mal so über Pricing zu reden. Also jetzt nicht eure Pricingpunkte im im Allgemeinen, das ist ja euer Ding. Aber so, einfach son bisschen, glaub ich, Verständnis dafür zu entwickeln, warum das halt so viel kostet, wie es kostet, ja. Weil natürlich die Leute wahrscheinlich schon erst mal draufgucken und sagen, ja, bei Youtube krieg ich das für umsonst, bei Vimeo zahl ich, weiß ich nicht was, so, ja. Und bei euch steht jetzt hier x Euro im Monat. Wieso denn überhaupt so, ja? Also ab 9 Euro im Monat? Ja, also das, aber also das ist 'n Punkt. Also Youtube vielleicht erst mal da ist wär auch vollkommen legitim. Das ist auch erst mal, je nachdem, was man macht, sollte man, glaube ich, auch auf Youtube präsent sein mit seinem Video Content, weil man da ja auch eine ganz eigene Search hat. Man kann da eine Content Das ist auch die Das ist auch die auch die auch die warum wir auf Youtube sind. Genau. Genau. Man kann da Community aufbauen und das wär auch vermessen zu sagen, Jani, lass das sein und leg deine Videos zu uns. Wir haben ja gar keine Public Plattform. Wir sind ja wirklich dann sozusagen Service für Websitebetreiber. Was dann aber natürlich doof ist, wenn wir jetzt dann in die EU gehen, Thema Consent ist, dass wenn Du dann das natürlich für nutzt auf deiner Seite auch gleichzeitig, dass Du dann eben da die Hälfte deiner Nutzer irgendwie verlierst, weil da so die, je nach Ablehnungsrate, die Du so hast, so, die sehen dann halt einfach initial das Video nicht. Das heißt, da gibt's dann einfach die Option zu sagen, ja, dann packt man halt diese Videos zu uns und packt dann vielleicht auch 'n coolen irgendwie netten Call to Action unters Video. Wenn Du sagst, hey, fandste cool, dann klick hier und folg uns doch auch auf Youtube, dann kriegst Du immer noch mehr von uns mit. Cool, Absolut legitim. Überhaupt gar nichts gegen einzuwenden. Und was war jetzt mein Wort? Also mir geht's, glaub ich, Preising. Darauf, genau, darauf hinzuweisen, dass der der Preis, den ihr verlangt, egal wie hoch oder niedrig der jetzt ist, ja, der ist ja eigentlich nur 'n Indikator von dem, was Youtube und andere Plattformen eigentlich an diesen Videos verdienen. Weil auch die machen das ja nicht aus Nächstenliebe, so, sondern die haben ja auch Verrückt. Da muss man mal bei unserem Cloud Konto anfragen, warum die da überhaupt was abrechnen, Barbie. So, und die verdienen ja quasi. Also man sagt ja immer so, wenn man wenn man nicht für das Produkt bezahlt, ist man selber das Produkt, das geflügelte Wort. Und wenn man jetzt quasi bei euch sieht, was quasi Videohosting kostet, dann sieht man so im Umkehrschluss ja auch, was Youtube an mir verdient, wenn ich da meine Videos in Anführungszeichen umsonst hosten lasse. Ja, wahrscheinlich verdient Youtube mehr als wir ziemlich sicher sogar. Und also das ist natürlich genau der Punkt. Das heißt, wir, was sozusagen ja eigentlich schon immer möglich war, also ich hab irgendwie genug Geld oder 'n Entwicklungs- oder IT Team, was auch immer und dann kann ich darauf ansetzen, kann ich das, was wir machen, mehr oder weniger selbst hinstellen? Baue ich sone Pipeline? Baue ich mein CDN? Mach ich das? Gib x 1000 Euro dafür aus und hab das? Das können dann die größere Unternehmen können das oder mit 'ner entsprechenden Expertise, aber wer das nicht kann, sind alle irgendwie im kleineren Segment. Alles, wo jetzt irgendwie nicht 'n x-Menschenteam irgendwie da ist oder das Geld da ist. Und bei uns war eigentlich die Herausforderung zu sehen, wie schaffen wir's eigentlich, dann auch den den kleinen Websitebetreibern auch zu ermöglichen, nicht Youtube benutzen zu müssen, vielleicht oder nicht wie Meo nicht, was oder war JW Player, wisst ihr, ja, was es alles halt irgendwie so gibt, sondern eine Alternative zu haben, die eben nicht Unmengen an Geld kostet ab xhundert Euro im Monat, sondern irgendwie günstig ist. Und das, also das war so der Anspruch, der Stretch, den wir versuchen hinzubekommen. Deswegen haben wir gesagt, okay, irgendwie 'n 9 Euro im Monat müssen wir hinkriegen für die Kleinen, haben wir auch hinbekommen. Dann geht's irgendwie hoch, aber bei Youtube ist es natürlich erst mal kostenlos. Das heißt, die den Sprung hinzukriegen, ist mir das überhaupt was wert, wenn nur ein Video auf meiner Webseite einfach direkt sichtbar ist ohne diesen Content oder eben nicht und dann nehm ich weiterhin Youtube. Und diese diese Abwägung ist legitim, in die eine oder andere Richtung irgendwie zu treffen. Mein mein Gedanke dahinter war zumindest der, wenn ich jetzt irgendwie mit dem Video auf meinen Plattformen irgendwas bezwecke, irgendwie irgendwas dabei gedacht habe, dann habe ich vielleicht auch die 9 Euro im Monat oder halt irgendwie plus plus plus, je nachdem, was ich so brauche, das einzubetten. Weil der Mehrwert, den ich darin sehe, dass das Video von allen gesehen werden kann, mir groß genug erscheint, das so zu tun. Und so, ja, Punkt. Der Großteil eurer Nutzer oder Frage, für den Großteil eurer Nutzer, was ist das entscheidendere Argument? Sind das dann eher die Kunden, die sagen, wie das Phantasialand Beispiel, ich will das einfach möglichst invasiv und ich will dieses ganze Cookie Thema irgendwie umgehen? Oder sind das eher Kunden, die sagen, meinen Kunden wiederum ist Privacy halt irgendwie megawichtig und ich würde das gerne quasi stringent eben auch auf der Infrastruktur- und Plattformseite behandeln und dementsprechend komm ich zu euch? Was ist da mal das stärkere Argument? Also wir haben auch in den letzten Wochen noch mal vermehrt gelernt, dass dieses ganze, dieses Mal, Konsensfreiheit zwar irgendwie schon so der USP ist, aber dass danach sehr wenig Leute suchen, weil's anscheinend nicht, also ist so, ist Punkt auch. Und auf der anderen Seite ist es dann so, dass, sagen wir mal, es gibt Bereiche, wir haben ja zum Beispiel irgendwie Kliniken, wo es halt medizinische Themen geht, Pharma, Bildung mit Jugendlichen, die sagen, für die ist das ganz klar 'n Thema, dass keine personenbezogenen Daten von deren Zielgruppe irgendwie an Dritte gehen, die daraus Werbung machen. Also ich weiß ich nicht, ich guck mir jetzt irgendwie das Bahnhofsvideo zur Krebstherapie an und möchte vielleicht nicht, dass das morgen in meinen Google Ads Algorithmus irgendwie Ja. Drin ist, sodass die sind dann sehr sensibel dafür. Das ist dann sehr einfach und klar und die anderen suchen eigentlich einfach nur nach Videohosting. Und da können wir dann hoffentlich mit dem USP so einen obendrauf setzen und sagen und dann kriegst Du sozusagen auch die die Ausspielung noch on top, aber es ist sozusagen super kleinteilig. Und dann gibt's wiederum auch natürlich irgendwie Agenturen, die ihren Kunden wiederum auch gerne Tool Stacks mit an die Hand geben, auch irgendwie gute Webseiten bauen zu können. Auch das ist der Fall, dass dass dass bei uns also 'n paar Agenturen, die mit denen wir mittlerweile zusammenarbeiten, bei denen wir jetzt in sozusagen der Liste der der Tools irgendwie auftauchen. Und bei den Beispielen, wo Du meintest so, hey, da kommen auch teilweise Enterprise, die irgendwie schon mit ihren Tools der kommen und sagen, hier diese 4, 5 Tools haben wir so. Das klang jetzt erst oder sind das dann Anwendungsfälle, wo die anderen Tools dann auch Privacy first sind oder oder wenn sie's nicht sind, warum dann euch als Plattform? Vielleicht kannst Du jetzt noch aus dem als Winkel noch mal Genau, selbst selbst wenn sozusagen die restlichen Tools, also selbst wenn Du noch 'n Cookie Banner auf deiner Seite hast, was wahrscheinlich in 90 Prozent der Fälle tatsächlich auch der Fall ist, ist es ja so, dass eben trotzdem so plus minus die Hälfte, ne, je nachdem, wie das Ding ablehnt. Und dann selbst wenn sie ablehnen, sind, ist zumindest der komplette Video Content da. Du kannst das Video nicht kaputt klicken sozusagen. Ja, Du also ne, das ist irgendwie möglichst viel von der Webexperience zu behalten, auch wenn die Leute Hab ich ja. Das Ding wegklicken. Und dann, Du hast natürlich das Thema, Du hast und da da strugglen wir auch mit, wir würden auch gerne besser die Ergebnisse unserer Ads messen können, mit denen wir irgendwie für unser Produkt werben. Können wir nicht, weil wir auf unserer Seite halt keine Cookies und kein kein Tracking kein Tracking setzen für für Google zum Beispiel jetzt, für die Search Ads. Müssen wir halt dann irgendwie ganz klassisch mit dem Parameter versuchen, den mit über den Kampagnennamen irgendwie durch durchzustecken. Muss man halt paar Abstriche machen? Ja, das hab ich gar nicht verstanden, weil die Werbung, die ihr für eure Plattform, oder geht's jetzt nicht euer Produkt, sondern Privacy first ist bei euch, bei allem auch, wenn ihr sagt, ihr macht Werbung für euer Produkt, auch da schränkt ihr euch dementsprechend ein? Ja, auf unserer Seite, das wär ja irgendwie, also das wär irgendwie doof. Gesagt, ja. Wenn auf unserer Seite 'n Cookie Banner kommen würde, das also, das ist schon der Anspruch auch an uns selbst, dass dass, wenn Du auf unsere Seite kommst, es kein es kein Cookie Gun Banner braucht, unsere Seite anzugucken. Ja, so. Das ist ja, das ist ja was konsequent, aber es ist jetzt nicht, es ist nicht für mich komplett selbstverständlich, dass dem so ist, so. Also Ja, also ich sag mal, rein aus Marketingsicht macht das ja schon Sinn, dass dein erster Kontakt mit Ignite ein consentfreier ist. Und Du halt siehst so, boah, so kann sich das Web anfühlen, so, ja? Weil also, weil das ist ja das, wo Du, das ist ja genau die Experience, die Du quasi verkaufen willst. Und wenn Du den selber nicht bereitstellen kannst, was ist denn dann dein dein Demo Case sozusagen, ne? Ja und aber und so, das ist, da da lehnen wir da mit Kompromissen. Und die Hoffnung ist, und wir wir kriegen's auch ganz gut hin, also ne, wir sind irgendwie ganz gut am Wachsen jetzt, reicht noch nicht fürn volles Gehalt für uns zweite Gründer, aber es es es geht in eine richtige Richtung, dass dass es irgendwie in der Mischkalkulation passt, auch wenn wir halt dann nicht so diesen Zugriff auf die auf die personenbezogenen Daten unserer Websitebesucher haben. Aber auch da darf man ja nicht vergessen, gilt ja dasselbe, auch diese ganzen Messpixel von den von den Ads Anbietern kannst Du ja auch nur einbinden, darfst Du auch nur laden, wenn Du den Consent von ihnen bekommst. Das heißt, auch da geht ja die die Hälfte der Daten flöten. Mhm. Also vielleicht fehlt uns dann nur noch 'n Viertel an anstatt alles. Ja, interessant, diese diese Reise an Infrastruktur, die ihr da die ihr da macht. Aber ich find's auf jeden Fall, ich mein, wir hatten ja schon auch, wenn wir von erzählt, ne, auf der Programmier konntest hast Du ja schon deinen Talk gehalten so. Und ich fand das dann durchaus eigentlich ziemlich inspirierend so, was was Du da was Du da darüber erzählt hast. Und auch wenn wenn es erst mal irgendwie sehr einschränkend klang, hab ich's Gefühl so, dass sie jetzt nicht groß jetzt eigentlich darunter leidet, mit diesem mit mit diesem Ansatz zu fahren. Und irgendwie find ich schon, dass es eher mich dazu inspiriert hat, zu sagen, ja, natürlich sollte man wirklich noch an mehr Stellen probieren, dass das so zu tun. Und nicht für, ah ja, gut, so, wenn die Dämme schon mal gebrochen sind, ich hab das erste Tool drin, wofür ihr den Content Banner braucht, dann ist jetzt auch egal. Nach voll. Beim nächsten Tool muss er einfach nur die Liste und die Leute müssen zustimmen, so ungefähr. Ja, es ist Weil er auch grad wirklich, mir war's auch vorhin gar nicht wusste. Natürlich klar, nur weil ich 'n Content Banner hab, heißt ja nicht, dass es nicht trotzdem Sinn macht, einen Teil davon content frei zu haben, sodass ich eben eine Experience habe, auch für Leute, die's ablehnen, maximal gut zu haben. Ja. Also klar, ich find's natürlich als Nutzer am schönsten, wenn dieses Banner oder gar nicht wahrscheinlich, es ist ja wieder das Doofe wie dieses Präventionsparadoxon. Wenn dieses Banner nie auftaucht, dann hast Du vielleicht gar nicht gemerkt, wie sehr es sich gestört hat auf den Seiten, wo's da war, aber auf der anderen Seite ist natürlich schön, dieses Banner kommt gar nicht. Und auf der anderen Seite, wenn jetzt im Hintergrund dann bei dir als Websitebetreiber, dass Analytics nicht geladen wird, ist mir das als Nutzer ja total egal. Ja. Das heißt, ich klick nein und dann denk ich mir Ja. Das das hat ja keinen Einfluss auf meine Experience als als User, aber es hat ja schon Einfluss auf meine Experience, wenn die Videos nicht da sind. Ja. Und deswegen kommen wir jetzt erst mal rein eigentlich aus der User Experience Ecke und den Rest müssen andere machen. Wir versuchen da irgendwie unser Bestes zu geben. Auch wir sind wir sind ja dann auch nicht perfekt, ne. Also irgendwie, wir versuchen alles irgendwie hinzustellen, versuchen irgendwie auch da die die richtigen Partner irgendwie für uns zu finden, aktuell irgendwie dann da mit AWS, aber whatever. Wir sind auch irgendwie mit mit Scalway und OVH im im Austausch. Wir haben unsere Datenbank aktuell dann bei OVH zum Beispiel liegen, damit also die Daten, die jetzt, wo die Daten unserer Admin User drin liegen, die wollen wir ja auch bei uns auch bei uns auch bei uns auch bei uns auch bei uns auch bei uns auch bei uns auch bei uns auch bei uns auch bei uns auch bei uns So und da betreiben wir zum Beispiel unsere Datenbank, dann liegen die Daten zumindest, wo Nutzerdaten liegen, auch mal E-Mail, Passwort, halt klassisch, ne, irgendwie, was man sonst auch so CMS nennen könnte. Das liegt dann da halt nicht bei 'nem Hyperscaler, aber auch Skateboard cooler auch cooler französischer Laden, auch Cloud. Ich find's zumindest da vielleicht auch in der Perspektive immer schön zu sehen, dass da jetzt mal 'n bisschen Dampf reinkommt in die in die europäische Cloud Bubble, würd ich mal sagen. Da haben wir halt einfach, weiß ich nicht, wahrscheinlich gut 10 Jahre Rückstand im im Sinne der Technologien, wenn man das so sieht. Wurde das ja eher dann, also das Beispiel zu OVA und Scalware und so, theoretisch hatten wir vorhin den Punkt so, nur weil ihr bei 'nem Hyperscaler seid, das wär ja jetzt ja erst mal noch kein Bruch mit eurem Ansatz, sondern wenn ihr eure, wenn ihr diese Daten dort liegen haben würdet so für die Kunden, die da die da draufgehen. Aber ist einfach dann eher so gemäß dem Gedanken, so, lasst das so mäßig machen, wie's geht und man halt vielleicht bei den Hyperskehern es dann eher nicht weiß und bei den europäischen, die den Fokus darauf legen, vielleicht sicherer ist, dass auch wirklich niemand an die Daten rangeht am Ende? Oder was ist da der Gedanke? Genau, also wir versuchen's einfach so gut, wie es uns möglich ist zu machen, ohne den Anspruch zu haben, eventuell nichts zu machen, weil wir's nicht perfekt hinbekommen. Ja. Ja. Das und ne, dann wieder auch das Thema Content Freiheit oder irgendwie Privacy first, wie für Content Freiheit ist das alles fein so. Und wir wir sind da auch, also ich bin großer Fan von der Qualität der Services, die ABS da zur Verfügung stellt. Das ist, weiß ich nicht, jetzt in der Zeit, wir haben noch nicht ein einziges Mal einen einzigen schiefgelaufenen API Call dahin gehabt. Also jetzt von unserer Seite ja vielleicht, aber die API hat noch nicht einmal irgendwie zicken gemacht. Irgendwie krass, wie robust und stabil das einfach ist, auch auf der, also mit dieser Skalierung finde ich mega cool und trotzdem ist es natürlich auch, also bin ich ja mit niemandem da irgendwie verheiratet und möchte irgendwie für für unser Produkt und für für unsere Kunden irgendwie das Beste draus machen können. Und wenn's da dann auch irgendwie dann aus Europa irgendwann mal an 'nem Punkt ist, wo man auf der Größenordnung coole Dinge machen kann, cool. Aber auch die stehen ja in 'nem ständigen Wettbewerb miteinander. Aber ich weiß nicht, wie das bei euch ist, aber so diese Abwägung ich will ja als auch als als Techy, als Mensch, der gerne Dinge baut, eigentlich immer die besten Produkte nutzen, die irgendwie da sind. Und dann macht man vielleicht Kompromisse im einen oder anderen Bereich, weil man dafür zum Beispiel im Bereich irgendwie Datenlocation, irgendwie EU Regulierung 'n bisschen was besser machen kann. Dann gibt's vielleicht 'n Punkt, wo man denkt, das das funktioniert noch. Und irgendwann wird der Gap vielleicht zu groß ist, denke, ja, ich möchte jetzt auf diese Art der Funktionalität und Qualität des Produkts, möchte ich oder kann ich grade nicht verzichten, sind wir noch nicht so weit. Ich weiß nicht, wie das so bei bei euch ist, ob ihr so Themen habt. Also bei uns nicht, ich muss eher Fabi angucken, glaub ich. Nee, ich, eigentlich wenig. Ich find, weil ich fand noch mal irgendwie, als Du das grade ausgeführt hast, kam mir noch mal son bisschen dieser andere Gedanke so und das ist vielleicht aber auch, weil wir da auch zu wenig dann Oder andersrum gesagt, ich find dieses Paradigma so was wie hostet in EU, in Germany, die die ABA compliance so was. Ich find erst mal, dass eigentlich dieses Label, ich mein aber da denk ich jetzt auch schon zurück in meine Zeit, als ich bei der Deutschen Bank irgendwie gearbeitet hab und irgendwie das alles alles, was da irgendwie hostet in EU, gefühlt einfach immer so sich son bisschen verstaubt wirkt wie, ich arbeite beim Amt und es muss halt irgendwo laufen. Und das heißt einfach nur, es ist dann zwar DSGVO konform, irgendwie passt alles so, aber eigentlich sind einfach nur die die schlechteren Produkte so. Und ich mein, wenn man auch jetzt mit dir darüber spricht, wenn man sich irgendnightant sowas anguckt und so, Ich hab oder ich hab das Gefühl, bei einigen ist dieses verstaubte Image wahrscheinlich auch immer noch da, so also ist dieses Privacy first, wo Du meintest so, ja, das ist euer Unique Selling Point, aber es ist gar nicht so das, nachdem die Leute suchen so, aber es ist ja dann scheinbar etwas, was die Leute aber irgendwie brauchen und zumindest, ich sprach mich so, kann es teilweise sogar abschreckend wirken, weil Leute erst mal damit verbinden, okay, dann kann's ja kein gutes Produkt sein son bisschen, weißt Du? Wenn's nicht, wenn es wenn es sich so diesem Label son bisschen gibt. Also habt ihr damit mit diesem Stigma irgendwie also zu kämpfen so? Also ich glaub grundsätzlich gibt's schon son bisschen son Stigma, dass alles, was jetzt irgendwie nicht Silicon Valley ist, vielleicht eher 'n bisschen biederer und angestaubter vielleicht so daherkommen kann. Wobei sich das, glaub ich, auch so in den letzten 5 bis 10 Jahren schon irgendwie geändert hat, dass es auch heuer richtig coole SARS Tools aus aus Europa irgendwie gibt mit mit hochwertigen Nutzeroberflächen. Und es gibt aber auch eine Menge richtig angestaubter Lösungen, so im Enterprise Videobereich, wo Du denkst, oh Gottes Willen. So, das, also gar nicht mal, die liefern auch Videos aus, aber die Oberflächen und so ist dann alles sehr angestaubt. Und da war dann auch unser Anspruch zu sagen, nee, das muss schon auch irgendwie 'n bisschen Spaß machen in der Bedienung, muss 'n bisschen schnell, snappy, moderne halt moderne Oberfläche haben. Und dieses Thema ja, die die unsere Kunden suchen gar nicht so richtig nach dir direkt nach dem Konsenthema, was denen irgendwie wahrscheinlich viel mehr am Herzen liegt, ist einfach irgendwie möglichst einfach schnell 'n Video auf die Website zu bekommen und wenn möglich an alle, die auf die Website gehen, ja. Aber wenn man das gut hinkriegt, dann hat man, glaub ich, schon viel gewonnen. Und dann kämpft man sicherlich son bisschen mit dem Gedanken der Nutzer, ja, ist es ist es eine 20 Prozent schlechtere Lösung, weil sie aus Europa ist? Ich muss sagen, mein mein oder die überraschende Erkenntnis aus dem Gespräch ist eigentlich, dass es bei dir jetzt gar nicht so klang, als ob das contentfreie Gestalten der Infrastruktur und der Plattform sone Challenge gewesen wär. Was ja im Umkehrschluss son bisschen bedeutet, dass alle anderen, die das nicht machen, das sehr bewusst so nicht machen. Also ne, ich glaube, man ist so darauf konditioniert als Benutzer, diese ganzen Cookie- und Content Banner so als gegeben hinzunehmen. Und das müssen die halt machen, weil die brauchen das und die komischen Vorschriften und so, ja. Aber bei dir ist ja ziemlich klar rausgekommen, nö, wenn man halt son bisschen von vornherein drüber nachdenkt so, ja, dann begern no offense, aber dann ist es halt nicht Rocket sign, so das. Man man kann das machen. Absolut. Und die Challenge hinter dem Produkt ist viel mehr, das den den Kunden zu erklären und zu sagen, was da irgendwie das Alleinstellungsmerkmal ist und so was, ja, als eine technische Challenge. Ja, absolut. Also auf dem Level glaub ich schon. Ich glaub, was tatsächlich nicht so leicht zu replizieren ist, ist dieses nächste Level dann, diese komplette Trennung der Kunden, weil da wirklich superviel auf Infrastrukturebene passiert und Aber das ist ja für euch als Plattformproblem. Genau. Wenn ich jetzt für mich überlege, ich will Ach ja, okay. Ja, ja, ein Appine Tool, ein Susting, ein irgendwas irgendwie so so aufbauen, dann dann müsst das ja eigentlich viel oder dann überrascht es mich nach dem Gespräch jetzt hier heute, dass nicht viel mehr Leute irgendwie darüber nachdenken, wie kriege ich das denn vielleicht konstantfrei hin? Einhundert Prozent, ja. Es ist am Ende ist es ja wenig Rocket Science. Man muss nur eigentlich von Anfang an über nachdenken, wie man's hinstellt. Und vielleicht ist das auch son bisschen die dass das Problem der der Legacy Plattformen, sag ich mal, dass die vielleicht auch schon so lange da sind, dass als die entstanden sind, der ganze fundamentale Tech Stack, den die haben, wie das wirklich vom vom Grundprinzip von der Infrastruktur, bei denen funktioniert, nicht darauf ausgelegt ist, dass es dass es ohne auskommt. Ich weiß es nicht. Es Aber hast Du dich auch, also ich mein, ich find ja interessant, dass Du ja den, ich sag zum ersten Mal den den Jan angesprochen, ich nicht an, also ja, ich mein den Jan Gregor m Getriebe. Hast Du nicht vorhin damit ja auch selbst darauf schon son bisschen die Antwort gegeben, warum's am Ende auch nicht jeder macht so? Ich mein, Du hast den anderen Jan da bisschen dafür verwirrt zu kritisieren, ja mit 9 Euro, wer zahlt denn 9 Euro? Ich kann's doch überall auch umsonst haben, dass es am Ende auch sone Businessmodellfrage einfach son bisschen ist. Also ich mein, natürlich habt ihr, ja, hast Du dann grade auch erzählt so die Schwierigkeiten, na ja, am Ende so irgendwie dann User Acquisition dafür zu machen und genau zu sehen, wie irgendwas funktioniert und so. Man hat ja schon Schwierigkeiten daran, wenn wir jetzt einfach nur das Game Beispiel nimmst, so. Wenn ich nicht tracken könnte, sozusagen meine UA Kampagnen gucken könnte, welcher User kamen da rein oder welche Kampagne kamen da rein, wie viel Geld haben wir am Ende verdient, dann funktioniert unser gesamtes Businessmodell einfach 0 Prozent. So, wenn wir das nicht könnten, dann brauch ich das gar nicht machen. Ich glaub, da draußen gibt's halt so Und gibt ja auch einige Businessmodelle, die einfach darauf basieren, sodass es halt eben eben nicht funktioniert, dass es für jeder 'n Service dann am Ende irgendwie bezahlt wird. Deswegen glaub ich, ist es so, ist es halt eine Nische, die super-, supersinn macht und ich's auch richtig, richtig gut finde. Aber ja auch auch da die Frage ist so, gib dein Businessmodell es überhaupt her, dass Du dieses Ganze so in allem, überall irgendwie umsetzen willst? Und ist es wirklich nur Faulheit oder an manchen Stellen auch einfach der grundlegende im Business Modell, sich dem zu unterwerfen? Also ich bin voll bei dir zu sagen, es gibt bestimmt Sachen, da macht das keinen Sinn ohne, ja. Also ich glaub, man man muss nicht versuchen, auf Biegen und Brechen 'n Social Network zu bauen, ohne personenbezogene Daten, so, ja. Und auch alle unsere Spiele haben ja diesen sozialen Aspekt, der sie da so befeuert, ja. Also ich glaub, da macht es keinen Sinn, dagegen zu arbeiten oder so, ja. Aber trotzdem ist es, glaub ich, legitim und sinnvoll, sich zu hinterfragen, ob das wirklich pauschal so für alle Produkte irgendwie gelten muss, ja. Wenn ich mich jetzt Ja, das ist wahr. Weiß nicht, bei meinem Podcast Player irgendwie anmelde. Ja, also nicht mal bei meiner Podcasthosting Plattform, sondern nur mein Player, der meine ganzen Subscriptions verwaltet und wo ich irgendwie auf abspielen drücken kann. Und der synkt vielleicht meine Subscription zwischen meinen Geräten hinterher so. Warum warum braucht der 'n Content Banner? So, ja. Das kann man ja vielleicht einfach mal so so hinterfragen. Und ich glaub schon, dass wir halt zu abgestumpft sind und das irgendwie so so hinnehmen und deshalb vielleicht auch gar nicht der Druck da ist bei vielen zu überlegen, ne, nehmen mir User das jetzt übel oder oder nicht oder so? Aber nachdem, was wir heute gehört haben, glaub ich schon, dass das öfter eigentlich der Fall sein könnte, als es heutzutage ist. Ja, das unterschreibe ich zu 100 Prozent auf jeden Fall. Ja. Dass sehr viel mehr Leute tun könnten, als sie aktuell tun. Ja. Und vielleicht auch da, es gibt ja auch Modelle und Cases, wo es, wo ich ja auch möchte, dass ich für den Service, den ich da vielleicht in Anspruch nehme, 'n Spiel ist ja auch irgendwie 'n Service, den ich dann genieße, weil ich da meinen Spaß hab. Und wenn ich mit anderen zusammenspielen, sag ich, ja wunderbar, dafür leg ich mir 'n Account an, da heißt mein Username, meine E-Mail-Adresse und Passwort, whatever. Ja. Und das schick ich dann an euch, weil ihr mein Game Provider da seid und dann ist das cool, dann ist das auch der Deal. Das geht dann eher weiter, was ist dann, also was was passiert dann aber ohne mein vielleicht mein Zutun mit meinen Daten im Hintergrund? Und da ist ja eigentlich sozusagen das, ne, EU Regulation oder man kann's vielleicht auch Werte sagen, dass man mitbestimmen darf darüber, was mit meinen eigenen personenbezogenen Daten passiert, zumindest ohne dass ich sonst eventuell wissen würde, eine feine Sache. Aber in dem Fall zum Beispiel ist es ja Teil auch des der Services und damit der Qualität und dann ist das dann ist das in Ordnung. Und auf der anderen Seite, zum Beispiel bei uns, wir richten uns ja jetzt rein auch an an Unternehmen, sag ich mal. Egal wie klein, das können Einzelselbständige, was weiß ich, irgendwelche Web Freelancer sein, aber auch halt große Läden. Die haben ja eigentlich immer irgendein Interesse, was sie ihr Produkt verkaufen wollen oder ihre Leistung oder ihr WhatsAppever. Und die haben ja eigentlich überhaupt nix damit am Hut, ob jetzt das, also das mit den Daten, deren Besucher jetzt irgendwie noch, dass Youtube da noch was von hat. Also das Ja. Also ich geh aber auf jeden Fall mit und das wär ja auch wünschenswert wirklich, wenn wir einfach einige Seiten hätten, wo wir diese leidigen Banner nicht mehr haben müssten. Das wär wirklich eine Traumveranstaltung. Vor allem ist es ja auch meistens ist die UX von diesen Bannern, die häufig schon auf Seiten waren, einfach so ich daran gehindert war, irgendwas zu machen auf der Mobile View, weil der weil ich's Banner nicht wegbekommen hab, so. Also so schlechte Banner gehören ja auch dazu. Das sind, vielleicht, die am wenigsten getesteten Features auf der Seite, das ist das erste, mit dem man in Kontakt kommt. Ja, wobei das Lustige auch ist, dass ja auch da drum rum auch eine komplette Industrie entstanden ist, diese Content Management Plattform. Es ist und das ist die Hölle, da mitzuarbeiten. Es ist die Hölle. Also das ist, glaub ich, eine so NebenDP, also alles, was mit Datenschutz zu tun hat und mit dem ich mich beschäftigen muss in meinem Entwickleralltag, ist wirklich das Schlimmste überhaupt, überhaupt zu verstehen, was diese Plattform machen und in welchen Ländern, was irgendwie wie funktioniert und wo's ob in ist, wo's ob out ist so, wie man mit den verschiedenen, wie die eigentlich die Information bekommen, wo ich's explizit sitzen muss, wer sich's direkt aus irgendwie dem TFA holt und so. Auch wenn ich das gerne als Schlusswort stehen lassen wollen würde, dass Content Management Provider irgendwie die reine Hölle sind, haben wir noch unsere klassische Abschlussfrage, die wir jetzt Jan auch noch stellen müssen, nämlich, welche Frage haben wir dir nicht gestellt? Über welches Thema wolltest Du unbedingt sprechen und ärgerst dich grade, dass weder Fabi noch richtig danach gefragt haben? Boah. Ah ja, wir sind da einmal wirklich durch alles irgendwie durchgeritten. Ich wüsste auf meiner Liste, also auf meiner Liste, wie die sieht nicht vorhanden ist. Wie wir zumindest sehen, ihr nicht. Aber ja, ich kenn wirklich auf deine Liste da. Er hat nichts abgehakt. Genau, meine meine Agenda, die mir meinen PR Berater mitgegeben hat. Nein. Nee, Ich glaub, wir sind tatsächlich einmal durch durch alles irgendwie irgendwie durchgerast. So vor allem ja, das Thema, was mir irgendwie bisschen aufm Herzen liegt, ist ist gar nicht mal rein unser Produkt, was mir sehr am Herzen liegt, aber dieses mal zu challengen, ob das ob's nicht besser geht mit der mit der Webexperience, grade irgendwie trotz trotz GDPA, halt trotz DSGVO, weil meistens tut's das. Ich fänd's schön, einfach wieder auf mehr Webseiten zu sein, wo kein kein Banner irgendwie Pflicht ist. Herr Kuhmilch, wenn ich das so ein checkt doch mal irgendwas aus würd sagen, wir machen das Ganze auch noch mal mit der Programmierbarseite. Und übrigens, ich hab 'n paar Jahre geguckt, ich hab übrigens keinen Banner bei uns gesehen. Also ich, weil wir hab's So, ich hab ich hab doch schon mal was gesehen. Ja, also wir machen das in meinem Nachgang so, also genau. Bevor wir meine Seite Hoffentlich bevor wir die Folge veröffentlichen, kriegen wir noch Ärger. Genau so wie Du mit der Website von deiner Frau. Genau, ja. Also gebt uns da gerne Feedback, wenn ihr, egal auf welcher Homepage von uns, sie mit uns zu tun oder was findet, Schwerzt uns nicht an, schickt uns eine Mail. Wir sind sehr offen dafür, Dinge zu verändern, wenn ihr Dinge findet. So bitte, ein Podcast at Programmier Punkt bar. Wunderbar. Dann bleibt uns nur noch 1 am Ende, nämlich Die. Nein, Stimmt. Mehrere und ein Day. Es ist nicht ein Pick über mehrere Immer das Mathe übrigens auch immer im Arbeitskontext falsch. Jedes Mal, wenn wir über einen Point of Sale reden Ja, es ist Points of Sale. Genau, wir sagen mal Point of Sales, ja. Das ist auch richtig, aber Du hast halt nur einen. Ja, genau. Also vielleicht dann damit mehr Verkäufer. Na ja. Wie auch immer. Also irgendwas in der Mehrzahl und in diesem Fall geht's einen oder mehrere Pick of Picks of the day. Exactly. Du hast gesagt, Du hast in den nächsten 60 Minuten dir was ausgesucht. Was hat Ich hatte gleich im Vorhinein was, ein Tool über den, das mit dem wir beide auch drüber diskutiert haben, asynchron im Chat vorhin. Und zwar ist das Ganze, wenn ich mit LLMs interagiere und nicht mehr oder warst Du gar nicht Teil der Confritte? Ich überleg grad. Auf jeden Fall ist unser aller Interaktion mit LLMs wahrscheinlich nur, geht nur nach oben, was die Zeit angeht. Und vieles davon hab ich Ah, ich war ja typisch, sondern bei uns hat's viele wirklich mit Leute zugebracht zu sagen, zumindest wenn ich jetzt nicht im im Office sitze, wo alle meine Kollegen neben dran sitzen, zumindest im Homeoffice. Das hab ich mir nämlich überlegt, wie ihr alle oben in der Station sitzt und parallel mit euren Rechnern arbeitet. Genau. Und wir laden mit unseren Rechnern, meistens noch nicht, wenn Arbeitskollegen neben dran sitzen, aber vielleicht wird sich auch das verändern. Und dafür sind zumindest so der zumindest der lokale Support jetzt einfach auf unsere Betriebssystem noch nicht so perfekt, dass wir dafür externe Tools nutzen. Und 1, was ich oder viele bei uns eine Firma nutzen, gut finden, ist Whisperflow. Wirklich, was es extrem gut macht, mit 'nem einfachen Shortcut überall einfach reinsprechen zu können, sehr gut das transkribiert zu bekommen oder möchte auch zusammengefasst zu bekommen. Wo ich jetzt echt sagen muss, also wenn ich daheimsitze, ich schreibe nichts mehr, wenn ich mit meinem LLM interagiere und auch nicht mehr, wenn ich Mails verfasse oder ähnlich, sondern der erste wird per Voice gemacht so und das hat noch gar nicht so lang. Und Whisper Flow ist einfach 'n cooles Tool, gibt auch einige andere da draußen, aber das war jetzt das, was in der, also ich hab's noch in der Free Variante, aber Kostenpunkt, glaub ich, 12 Euro im Monat sind. Weiß gar nicht, was genau die Grenze ist, da bauen man da rein dadrin 2000 Wörter die Woche. 2000 Wörter die Woche. Also ich werde sehr schnell dadran stoßen. Ich glaub auch. Aber ich glaube wirklich, spart mir echt einiges einiges an Zeit. Ich finde auch, wenn in dem Set-up Flow find ich ganz interessant, da vergleichen sie dann auch, wie schnell man redet und wie schnell man tippt. Dann kann man son bisschen mal kurz antippen, wie schnell man denn selbst tippt, ob man wirklich so schnell ist, wie man glaubt. Macht auf jeden Fall Spaß. Dieser Onboarding Flow ist ganz cool. Coole App. Whisper Flow. Ich bin gespannt, wenn ihr das jetzt alle benutzt. Ich hab's ja noch nicht. Und das ist ja so aufgekommen, wie Du gesagt hast in diesem LRM Kontext. Ich frag mich wirklich, also ja, ich glaub, man redet mehr und gibt mehr Kontext mit, als man tippen würde, Ja. Weil man einfach son bisschen tippfaul ist und beim Reden fällt's einem leichter. Ich bin noch nicht überzeugt, ob das auch wirklich technisch sinnvoller ist, weil Du natürlich auch einfach mehr reinbrabelst so, ne. Wenn Du 'n prompt tippst, bist Du sehr, also tippst Du ja sehr bewusst und überlegst dir, was kommt da rein und was nicht. Und dementsprechend, weiß nicht, trägt das vielleicht was zur Promptqualität bei oder eben auch nicht? Ja, gespannt. Ich glaub, die ist einfach, ich mein, die ist ja jetzt schon weniger wichtig. Es wird immer weniger wichtig sein, dass Du's perfekt strukturierst. Also ich mein, wir haben schon damals in der Anfangszeit so dieses Ding von wird irgendwie mal 'n Ding sein. Schon damals war ja schon immer meine These so, nee, wird's nicht. Also wird immer weniger 'n Ding sein so. Dass Du genau definierst, wie dein ist, wird einfach später irgendwann komplett egal sein, da kannst Du so viel Fehler reinhauen, wie Du willst. Und auch das ist das schon, was wir ehrlicherweise jetzt sehen bei den Anwendungsfällen, wie wir's tagtäglich nutzen, lieber mehr Kontext als irgendwie ganz genau ausformuliert. Es geht ja jetzt nicht diesen so reproducible prompt, der jetzt irgendwie in deiner in deinem Agent irgendwie, den Du an die Endkunden gibst, dann da immer reproduzierbar dasselbe Ergebnis, die man will, sondern eigentlich, Du willst damit interagieren, Du willst deine Features erklären. Da ist immer lieber mehr Kontext, als dir genau zu überlegen, was Du da reinschreibst. Ja, fair. Jan, was hast Du dabei? Ich find erstens Whisperflow auch gut, find ich feine App. Und ich hatte erst noch was anderes im Kopf, aber in dem Kontext Whisperflow, wo Du's grade saß, von der Extension, ohne die ich mittlerweile überhaupt nicht mehr auskomme, ist Language Tool. Weiß nicht, wer das kennt? Nee. Aber Language Tool ist, weiß ich nicht, so vielleicht eine eher eine Alternative zu Grammerly oder so was. Ist, glaub ich, sogar 'n deutsches Tool. Mhm. Als Browserextension oder auch halt generell im Betriebssystem. Mittlerweile auch irgendwie KI supportet mit Formulierungsvorschlägen. Auf jeden Fall ohne dieses Tool kriege ich gefühlt keinen keinen geraden Satz mehr raus. Das ist vor allem auch mit deutscher Grammatik gut, bin ich großer Fan von. Bin ich concent frei. Direkt auf der Seite, direkt mit 'nem mit 'nem Contentblog. Ich bin mir gar nicht aufmachen, hab ich schon mal weggeguckt, ich hab installiert, die Cro Extension ist schon drin. Ich glaube, so weg mit den Menschen ist Deutsch, gar nicht auf der Homepage. Nee, finde ich finde ich mega. Ich bin da, glaube ich, schon seit 6, 7 Jahren tatsächlich zahlender Kunde sogar und das ganze KI Kram kam logischerweise später. Aber das ist auch eine Extension, ohne die ich nicht mehr möchte. Cool. Wird jetzt ausprobiert, ist schon drin. Direkt konzentretisch. Willst Du noch dein andere, die war ja jetzt son bisschen auf so das dir eingefallen. Du kannst auch gerne Also ja, der mein anderer Genau. Days in dem Fall war es eigentlich gestern, denn ja noch spät im ICE unterwegs, ist Abendessen früh entgangen gegangen und da freu ich mich dann, dass es so leckeres Chili im Bahnbistro der Deutschen Bahn gibt. Das ist immer, kann man kann man machen, sowohl Con- als auch Sinkarne ist es Was so beide probiert? Ja, je nachdem, was halt irgendwie grade so der Mut des Tages ist. An der Stelle würd ich sagen, gehen auch Grüße raus an den Dennis, wenn man nämlich im Vorgespräch darüber redet, dass so eigentlich nur der Dennis macht mit Fahrradfahren oder also diese diese Alltagsdinge so. Oder mittlerweile abgewöhnt. Dann bin ich gespannt, was Du jetzt zu meinem gleich sagst. Oh, ich bin ja auch gespannt. Mein Pick kommt nämlich 2 Jahre zu spät. Ja. Und zwar hab ich hier diese Apple Watch, die hab ich seit ziemlich genau Oh Gott, ja. 2 Jahren. Irgendwas mit Apple Watch. Ja. Und es ist ja sone Apple Watch Ultra und die gibt's ja nur mit LTE. So, aber ich war immer sehr geizig, weil ich hab ja keinen extra Handyvertrag jetzt nur für meine Uhr oder so, fand ich vollkommen schwachsinnig. Bis jetzt 'n Handyvertrag bekommen hab, wo SIM Karten bis zum Zuwerfen dabei war. Und der hatte keinen son SIM Cut dazu, da hab ich bei meinem Anbieter angerufen und hab gesagt, hey, kann ich da eine E-Sim haben für meine Uhr, weil diese ganzen physischen SIM Karten, die ihr mir geschickt habt, die brauch ich irgendwie alle gar nicht. Und dann haben die das gemacht. Und jetzt hab ich seit 2 Wochen oder so, also Internet immer auf die Uhr. Und da ist ja abgefahren, wie krass das ist. Also Du Du guckst mich grade an wie son Auto oder so. Ja, wahrscheinlich, weil Du das noch nie gehabt hast, oder? Einfach Apple Watches braucht doch niemand. Ist doch 'n Quatsch. Hast Du nicht hast Du nicht 'n Apple Watches. Was hast 'n für 'n Uhr? Gar keine. Ach so, nee, weil Dennis hat Dennis hat eine Apple Watch, ne? Ja, also jedes Mal, wenn, ja. Ja, aber also Anyway, ich guck Anyway, ja. Ja, guck mich ruhig noch 'n bisschen böse an dabei. Aber es ist schon son noch mal son sehr anderes Gerät, wenn Du's auf einmal quasi benutzen kannst, wirklich dein Handy irgendwie zu Hause zu lassen, weil Du genau weißt, Du kannst irgendwie angerufen werden. Du kannst irgendwie selber jemanden anrufen, wenn was passiert. Du kannst deine Musik unterwegs da mit streamen, ohne dir irgendwie Gedanken darüber machen zu müssen, was offline oder so. Es ist schon noch mal sehr, sehr, sehr viel anders. Ich würde niemals dafür extra Geld ausgeben, aber wenn's halt irgendwie im Vertrag mit Trainingsman das nehmen kann. Es ist echt 'n cooles Feature, deshalb 2 Jahre zu spät jetzt meine Uhr auch mit LTE, was schon immer eingebaut war und jetzt endlich mal benutzt wird. Mein Modem freut sich grade son bisschen. Willst Du noch 'n bisschen renten, Fabi? Dann hau jetzt ruhig raus. Ja, wir sind schon super weit in der Folge. Ich denk, also jetzt ist wirklich, ich mein, wie oft hast Du denn dein Handy jetzt seitdem daheimgelassen? Schon öfter mal, welches spazieren geht draußen bei uns oder so, ja. Dann ist es wichtig, dass man dann auf jeden Fall immer noch Internet Also allein bin ich, ist Irgendwo müssen ja die Podcasts herkommen, also bitte. Ja, also wirklich so einfach noch mehr. Man wird ja nicht schon häufig genug von seinen Handys abgelenkt, dann gerne auch noch eine Uhr, die mir andauern, so, wo ich sofort drauf gucken kann, wenn's irgendwas kommt. Das Smartphone Detox Light. Oh, es ist ein grauenhaftes Produkt, wirklich. Es ist Ist das Nikotinpflaster des Smartphones Ressourcen? Also wirklich einfach. Ja, in kleiner Dosis. Alle Smartwatches in die Tonne drücken und die Welt ist eine bessere, wirklich. Das kann ich jetzt nicht so zustimmen. Ich bin ich bin Garmin Nutzer. Mit 'nem sympathischere Smartwatch. Ach komm. Wirklich. Ist ja auch wirklich. Wir sind hier fertig. Ja, das, wir können gerne mal eine separate Folge über, ich mach einfach sone eigene Folge, wo ich einfach nur über die Apple Watch abhitle, so. Ist natürlich die bestperformste Folge ever, wirklich. Ich einfach so, 30 Minuten lang sag ich einfach nur, was ich an der Apple Watch scheiße finde. Okay, also wenn Du das schaffst? Ich ich schieb denen den Feed. Also mein Apple Watch Rant. So eine Einzelepisode, nur Du. Ja, okay, ist ja. Ihr könnt jetzt an Podcast at Programmier eine E-Mail schreiben, wenn ihr wollt, das Fabi 30 Minuten. Aber eigentlich finde ich's gut, wenn ich will eigentlich nicht keinen Monolog, ich würd gern Monolog, wo ihr aber auch zuhören müsst, aber ihr dürft nicht darauf reagieren, einfach nur so, jetzt mal so, also ihr dürft nur Sachen, sag ich, das stimmt doch gar nicht so, aber ihr dürft nicht wirklich drauf Also Dennis, Dave und ich sitzen Ja. Das ist jetzt auch 'n neues Ja. So was. Ja. Okay, also wie gesagt, schreibt mir Macht ihr damit über eigenes Format. Ich such mal einfach nur kleine Features raus und es geht nur so so so Tipp jetzt so. 5 Minuten lang rant ich wieder über 'n anderes Feature von der Applewatch. Einfach so Fabis Dampfablass 5 Minuten? Ja, das wär toll. Ja. Also sag, gib mal Feedback dazu, wie Du's finden würde, das Format so. Apple Watch. Es ist wohl Es gibt schon viel zu wenig Hass noch. Ja, Du machst ja das Web besser mit Privacy first. Ich mach's wieder 'n bisschen schlechter. Aber ohne, das kriegt ihr ohne Cookie, ne, ohne Cookie Banner könnt ihr den renturn. Ah, phänomenal. Wunderbar. Dann danke Jan, dass Du heute da warst und Du die Zeit genommen hast. Fabi, schön Lust, wie die das war da. Ich find auch schön, dass Ja. Ja, ja. Wir haben wir haben lange kein Deep Dive mehr zusammen gemacht, Fabi. Ja, ja, ja. Ich frag, ich weiß auch gar nicht warum. Ich weiß auch nicht warum, war doch eigentlich supersympathisch. Ja. Wunderbar. Dann hören wir uns spätestens nächste Woche wieder zur nächsten Podcastfolge. So sieht's aus. Macht's gut. Bis deine. Tschau. 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0: Hallo und herzlich willkommen zu einem neuen Deep Dive hier in der Programmierbar. Ich hör für euch im Studio wie immer der Jan, Gregor, im Getriebe, muss man vielleicht dieses Mal dazu sagen.\n\nSpeaker 1: Genau.\n\nSpeaker 0: Weil mit mir im Studio ist\n\nSpeaker 1: Der Fabi Fink, der auf jeden Fall noch nicht für Verwirrung sorgt, was die Namen angeht.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und noch ein Jan. Hallo Jan, schön, dass Du da bist.\n\nSpeaker 2: Korrekt, danke. Ich bin der zweite Jan.\n\nSpeaker 0: Jan, Du bist heute bei uns, weil wir über Privacy sprechen wollen. Und weil Fabio und ich mit Privatsphäre nicht so viel am Hut haben, haben wir gedacht, wir laden dich dazu ein. Du hast ja schon auf der Programmiercon letztes Jahr, ist noch kein Jahr her, aber trotzdem irgendwie letztes Jahr, es klingt irgendwie so lange her.\n\nSpeaker 1: Auf der auf der größten Programmiercon ever?\n\nSpeaker 0: Auf der größten Programmiercon, die es bis dato gab, hast Du einen Talk erhalten über Privacy first infrastructure. Und der Satz, der mir so vom Anfang hängen geblieben ist, ist, das Web nervt und das ist schade.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, ist so, oder? Aber warum ist das so? Gut, also da muss man, da gibt's wahrscheinlich viele Gründe für, aber es ist eigentlich so, weil grade bei uns hier in irgendwie Europa im Netz einem einfach überall Hürden in den Weg gelegt werden, bevor man irgendwie mal 'n Content sehen kann mit Cookie Bannern, mit Einwilligung, die man geben muss, mit Sperenzchen, die man irgendwie rum navigieren muss als User, irgendwie zu 'nem schicken Content zu kommen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und mit diesen ganzen Cookie Bannern und Anforderungen habt ihr euch ja schon sehr lange beschäftigt, weil ihr macht eigentlich im Hauptgeschäft, darf man so Webseiten sagen?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, unter anderem, ja.\n\nSpeaker 0: Unter anderem, was macht ihr noch so?\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau, also das ist dann die die Agenturseite. Letztendlich hat digitale Plattformen aller Art. Also es sind auch native Apps dabei, Webseiten, aber auch viel so Backend Shit, interne Tools, halt alles, was man irgendwie entwickeln kann, was irgendwie in 'nem Browser abgeht und teilweise halt auch aufm mobilen Endgerät so.\n\nSpeaker 1: Aber vielleicht kannst Du dann Hörern dann jetzt mal den Namen dazu nennen sozusagen, wer wer seid ihr und was macht ihr in erster Linie, was Privacy first ist?\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau, also vielleicht so der das, worüber wir jetzt grade kurz gesprochen haben, Thema.\n\nSpeaker 0: Das ist mein Übergang ruiniert, Fabi.\n\nSpeaker 2: Also einmal gibt's dann die Agentur, aber das ist jetzt eher dann Ranthema. Das ist, wo wir dann Webseiten bla machen, die heißt P-Media. Gibt's jetzt auch schon knapp 18 Jahre, was erschreckend ist. Aber ist das das Produkt, unsere Videohosting Streaming Plattformen, wo wir sozusagen Videohosting machen in Short Video im Bett, wo man eben keinen Cookie Banner, keinen Cookieconsent braucht, halt 'n Video auf seiner Website zu kriegen, mal einfach gesagt.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und vielleicht holen wir da trotzdem noch 'n Stück aus und gehen noch 'n halben Schritt zurück, weil ihr habt das ja auch für euch gebaut. Genau, deswegen wollt ihr auf diese Leidensgeschichte so son bisschen raus. Ihr leidet selbst am meisten mitunter Cookiebanner. Wie oder was hat für euch das Fass so zum Überlaufen gebracht, dass ihr gesagt habt, das lohnt sich jetzt für uns, diese Plattform zu bauen. Weil ich mein, das Web hat ja das ein oder andere Problem, außer Cookiebandan vielleicht auch noch.\n\nUnd trotzdem geht man ja nicht jeden Tag daher und sagt, okay, ich bau jetzt hier was, das so im Großen und Ganzen zu lösen.\n\nSpeaker 2: Der Startpunkt war letztendlich tatsächlich dann im Agentur Case da, eine Webseite von 'nem Kunden oder mehreren Kunden am Ende des Tages, das auch dann sozusagen unser unser Pilot kundet, in dem Fall das Phantasialand, halt sehr emotionales Produkt und entsprechend emotional mit Bewegtbild versehener Webseite, alles alles bewegt sich. Man kann sich halt irgendwie vorstellen, dass son Thema in in Standbilder nicht so gut funktioniert wie eben in Bewegung. Und dann ist irgendwie alles cool und dann guckst Du dir aber dann irgendwann mal das ganze Thema an, wie bist Du aufgestellt, sozusagen DSGVO? Dann kommt irgendwann auch mal eine Prüfung und dann stellt sie fest, Du bist irgendwie da in dem Fall wie Miokunde. Und dann sagt dir halt der der liebe Datenschutzmensch mit mit voller Berechtigung, hey, ihr habt eine coole Website, aber die Videos, die könnt ihr erst alle nach Cookieconsent abspielen.\n\nUnd dann stellst Du, ja, dann sieht halt die Hälfte keine Videos. Vor allem, wenn Du dann jetzt nicht einfach irgendwie 'n Video im Content hast mit 'nem dicken Play Button drauf, sondern wenn Du halt das dem Ganze irgendwie integriert in Hintergründen, Autoplay, dekorativ einsetzen willst, dann macht's dir das Leben halt umso schwerer. Und dann standen wir da und dann sagen wir, unbefriedigend. Und vielleicht dann auch so der der Boom, ich bin jetzt gar kein Datenschutzheini, sondern ich komm da aus der Webexperience Ecke. Ist einfach ist einfach scheiße, wenn die wenn die Webseite dann son son Qualitätsverlust in Sachen irgendwie so User Experience oder halt auch Immersion hat.\n\nUnd dann haben wir gesagt, ja, kann nicht sein. Und dann gehst Du irgendwie auf die Suche, findest irgendwie jetzt nicht einfach son Drop in Replacement. Und dann kam so der Punkt, ja, ich hab zu Corona schon mal eine eine Plattform gebaut, da ging's Live- und Streaming von Fitnesskursen für so selbstständige Fitnesstrainerinnen, Trainer. Sagt, ja, die die Technologie, die Pipeline haben wir irgendwie noch so in 'ner Schublade liegen. Wir wissen eigentlich, wie's geht.\n\nLass doch mal probieren. Und dann war Kunde 1, Phantasialand, dann kam Agenturkunde 2, Agenturkunde 3. Und dann denkst Du, ja okay, eigentlich würde ich dann nicht mal probieren, da jetzt was was 1 draus zu machen. Vielleicht brauchen sie ja noch mehr. Und dann haben wir 'n Prototypen gebaut und dann ist 'n Produkt draus geworden.\n\nSpeaker 0: Bevor wir darüber sprechen, wie ihr das gebaut habt und was so die Architektur da hinten dran ist, würd mich vielleicht noch ganz kurz interessieren, wie das Gespräch mit euren Kunden gelaufen ist. Weil ich kann mir schon vorstellen, dass dieser, also Du hast ja, dich hatte sich das gestört aus so dieser Emissionsperspektive sozusagen, ja. Aber das ist ja nicht was, wofür jeder Kunde im Zweifelsfall bereit ist, Geld auszugeben, so, ne. Viele gucken da vielleicht auch drauf und sagen sich, na ja, dann müssen die Leute jetzt son Cookie Banner vorher klicken, dafür muss ich für meine Videoplattform nix bezahlen, das kann einfach so bei Youtube liegen. Wie wie lief da das Gespräch und die Abwägung?\n\nSpeaker 2: Das das Schöne war in dem Fall, dass Vimeo ja auch nicht kostenlos ist, vor allem, wenn Du jetzt irgendwie 'n bisschen mehr Video durchballerst als jetzt irgendwie so halt sone Miniwebsite. Das heißt, der erste Ansatz war zu sagen, okay, wir wissen noch nicht ganz genau, was uns das Ganze kostet, weil wir sagen einfach mal, wir matchen den Preis und machen's dann dafür. Und zum Glück in dem Fall ist halt der Kunde auch super empfänglich für das ganze Thema Immersion Experience steht bei denen super oben auf der Prioritätenliste. Und dann hatten wir tatsächlich in dem Fall eigentlich wenig Überzeugungsarbeit zu leisten.\n\nSpeaker 1: Und vielleicht kannst Du dann mal für die, die jetzt nicht so viel mit Video und Embedden auf Homepages so was zu tun haben, so. Was aber halt so gemeint hat, man hat jetzt irgendwie geschaut, okay, wo gibt's noch andere Anbieter außer wie Meo so? Jetzt hat man jetzt ja ganz Pläne Use Case so einfach, na ja, dann dann ist das halt einfach auf meinem Server und wir machen halt nicht und die machen Streaming so, kann man, wenn da oben so Preview Videos sind, dann müssen wir halt so klein komprimieren, dass es irgendwie funktioniert. Also was war denn, wie habt ihr's denn am Ende gelöst, bis ihr nach Kunde 3 dann gesagt habt, so, jetzt bauen wir vielleicht mal doch eine Lösung dafür?\n\nSpeaker 2: Also es gibt natürlich auch immer die, ich sag mal, die kleinen Lösungen, weil man jetzt irgendwie mal 'n kleines Videoschnipsel hat, was irgendwo im Hintergrund in 'nem Loop abspielen soll und dann speise ich halt eine eine MP4 irgendwo hin, die ist dann, hast dann dann 5 Sekunden Loop und dann ist die irgendwie klein, so, safe ist überhaupt kein kein großes Ding. Wenn man dann, ich sag mal, wenn das Ganze anspruchsvoller wird, gibt's eigentlich mehrere Hebel, wo man dann an den Punkt kommt, dass man eigentlich vielleicht 'n Videohoster einsetzen will, der's irgendwie besser skaliberer macht. Es ist, sobald erstens sehr viel Videocontent ausgespielt wird, weil Traffic ist an sich erst mal eine teure Ressource im Netz. Es wird sehr viel, ist sehr günstig im Hosting Bereich, aber ab irgend 'nem Punkt hält dann doch jeder die Hand auf, wenn Du ordentlich Traffic durchballerst, wenn man mal in den Hosting Verträgen dann so ins Kleingedruckte guckt, stehen da dann doch irgendwelche Gigabyte Zahlen, die man vielleicht nicht dauerhaft überschreiten darf.\n\nSpeaker 1: Das hatten wir letztens bei bei Word beziehungsweise letzten Mal unsere Kosten für die Google Cloud durch und erst gesehen, wie viel Kosten wir dafür haben, dass wir die Profilbilder von in 'nem im anzeigen so. Es ist keine vernachlässigbare Größe. Ich mein, da haben wir jetzt 'n paar der Technik Abschaffen. Einfach abschaffen, ja. Sind paar Sachen verändert.\n\nIch mein, war mal nicht so gut aufgestellt, aber wieder waschen waschen interessant, wie groß dieser Faktor ist. Crabt man sich vorher gar nicht so ganz an,\n\nSpeaker 2: ne? Ja, also das ist ein Faktor, das ist dann aber für die Kunden, die sehr viel Durchsatz haben. Und der andere Faktor ist einfach die die Performance auch, also auch Ladezeiten. Das heißt, alles, was irgendwie jetzt mal über 4, 5, 6 Sekunden Länge geht, will man in der Regel dann, wenn's irgendwie geht, adaptiv streamen. Das heißt, nicht eine dicke m p 4 dahinballern, sondern das Ganze wird dann automatisch im Encodingprozess in kleine Chunks unterteilt und\n\nSpeaker 0: Aber auch das könnt ich ja Startstoff mal im Server machen.\n\nSpeaker 2: Kann man\n\nSpeaker 0: alles, genau. Einfach alle möglichen Auflösungen und Schnipsel hinschmeißen. Genau, wär's auch. Absolut.\n\nSpeaker 2: Absolut. Und als, ich sag mal, als Entwickler oder als jemand, der die die technische Expertise mitbringt, so was zu tun, hält mich ja erst mal grundsätzlich nehmen wir davon ab, irgendwas selbst zu bauen. Ich glaub, weiß ich nicht, wir sind ja, also, ne, ne, wir haben alle irgendwie 'n technischen Hintergrund, wir sind alle irgendwie Spielkinder auch in der Hinsicht. Das heißt, man hat ja auch manchmal Bock drauf, dann so was zu bauen und kann ich niemandem verübeln. Für die meisten Kunden ist es dann ja eher, ja, jetzt jetzt da, wenn die Agentur dran setzen oder irgendwie intern Personal dran setzen, etwas zu bauen, was andere jetzt schon fertig hier haben Und dann, keine Ahnung, kann man da auch zu uns kommen und irgendwie ab 9 Euro im Monat sich 'n Hosting Paket holen.\n\nDafür, also muss man schon erst 'n, muss man sehr schnell sein oder die, ja, selbst mit selbst mit KI, Du brauchst Encoding, Du musst die Pipelines. Es ist nicht so einfach zu replizieren. Ja. Aber Spaß macht's trotzdem, also wer will.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und ihr habt ja auch, also so wie ich mir das vorstelle, großes Projekt, Fantasialand, das ist ja auch nicht nur ein Video, sondern das hängt ja wahrscheinlich an 'nem CMS, die wollen das Video mal tauschen, da ist so saisonaler Content irgendwie drauf. Das heißt, die wollen ja auch jetzt nicht alle 3 Wochen wieder da die Pipeline anschmeißen, sondern die wollen das ja vielleicht in 'nem CMS sein, wo das einfach irgendwo hingeladen wird und dann ist fertig oder so.\n\nSpeaker 2: Nee, genau. Der der reine das reine Handling 1 einzelnen Videodatei ist ja irgendwie easy. Das wird ja dann spaßiger, wenn Du eben erstens über xhundert Videos sprichst, die halt auch noch verwaltbar haben willst, ans CMS angedockt, austauschbar, ohne dass Du jetzt irgendwie jedes Mal wieder auch Code anfassen musst. Du willst vielleicht automatisch dir euer Untertitel generieren, das transkribieren lassen, übersetzen lassen. Du willst vielleicht auch den Player fertig haben mit gewissen Accessibility Standards.\n\nAlso da hängt dann irgendwie viel dran, was dann eher sich den den Prozess auch dreht, Videos gut und schnell auf auf 'ner Plattform irgendwie drauf zu haben.\n\nSpeaker 0: Mhm. Und jetzt hast Du gesagt, ihr hattet quasi den Vorteil, dass ihr schon ein anderes Videoportal hattet, was ihr quasi als Ausgangssituation nehmen konntet für Ignite. Was war da so die die technische Grundlage? Was war schon da und was hat euch da noch gefehlt, als ihr dann quasi angefangen habt?\n\nSpeaker 2: Also die technische Grundlage war relativ straight forward. Das war eher so, ich hab sozusagen das irgendwie das Cloud Format Template für für die das Ding schon mal, also für den kompletten Prozess, den Prozess Upload, Trigger, Encoding läuft durch. Es werden x Auflösung generiert von 4 k runter bis 240 p. Es wird 'n Thumbnail rausgezogen, so das, was wenn man jetzt von 0 anfängt, vielleicht auch so mal die die erste Woche 2 Uhr rumprobieren ist, bis man mal zu 'ner Lösung kommt. Das war da, das hat einfach nur die erste Hürde gesenkt.\n\nAnsonsten ist der Ansatz jetzt so und war so oder ist auch immer noch so, dass wir für jeden für jeden Kunden, der sozusagen Videos hostet, bekommt man 'n eigenen Cloud Storage, 'n 'n s 3 Bucket. Davor kommt eine eigene CDN Distribution mit entweder 'ner 'ner Subdomain, die jetzt generisch dann von uns kommt, so was wie Kundenname Punkt und wir haben dann die EU Video CDN Punkt com, Zertifikat und vor allem auch eine Infrastrukturuserebene, die auf den Kundenstorage abgeschirmt ist, sodass kein kein Dataschharing auch zwischen den Kunden stattfinden kann. Das war dann schon so die, sag mal, die Extrapolation des der der Technologiepipeline, die wir damals gebaut hatten, weil da, wie gesagt, im im Enterprise Videobereich ist ja auch nicht anders. Du beauftragst jemanden, der macht dir dein Storage deine Domain, setzt das alles händisch auf. Und die Idee war dann, okay, schaffen wir das nicht pro Kunden, das zu replizieren?\n\nDas hat dann funktioniert, zu dem Zeitpunkt halt noch, ich sag mal, manuell, semi manuell. Und der der Clou war dann eigentlich zu schauen, schaffen wir es, das zu automatisieren, in den Self Service zu bringen, sodass wir nicht nur händisch die großen Agentur- und Enterprisekunden zu uns holen können und denen das einrichten können, sondern dass wir sagen können, Du gehst auf unsere Website, stellst dir 'n Account und all das passiert wirklich auf Infrastrukturebene vollautomatisch in Echtzeit, in live ohne Verzögerung und Du hast dann dein Videohosting.\n\nSpeaker 1: Und das vielleicht auch, damit ich's vielleicht noch mal in meinen Worten wiederholen, vielleicht für die auch mal wiederhol, die auch gar nicht jetzt datenschutzmäßig, warum, was jetzt genau in Vimeo schlecht ist und an euch gut, wenn man so ist. Also wenn ich's versteh, der große Unterschied ist eigentlich nur, wenn man's runterbricht, wenn ich auf Vimeo was hoste, dann liegt mein Video bei Vimeo. Das heißt, man hat immer mit dem Vimeo Server Kontakt. Und genau deswegen haben wir das Problem, dass wir ab da dann, weil sie dafür auch okay setzen müssen und so weiter, irgendwie einen Einwilligung brauchen. Und ihr habt eine Infrastruktur gebaut, wo am Ende, wenn ich etwas hoste, am Ende die Infrastruktur meine ist.\n\nIhr seid sozusagen nur der Layer, durch den aus ich diese eigene Infrastruktur konfigurieren, die ganzen Features automatisiert hinpacke oder wie. Was ist so, vielleicht auch grad am Anfang als ich hingegangen, ihr habt euch wahrscheinlich Vimeo angeguckt und ihr werdet, okay, was ist bei was was macht Vimeo, was wir anders tun müssen, dieses Banner nicht mehr zu haben? Ja.\n\nSpeaker 2: Also die, das den Cookie Banner loszuwerden, ist die Grundvoraussetzung eigentlich simpel, man darf keine personenbezogenen Daten von den Websitebesuchern, die die Videos konsumieren, erfassen und verarbeiten.\n\nSpeaker 1: Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 2: Immer wenn das stattfindet, brauchst Du vorher den Content. Also ich als Besucher, als Bruder Du, als Besucher kommst auf meine Website, ich zeig dir 'n Video, das nicht direkt bei mir liegt als First Party, sondern bei 1 dritten Partei, nämlich wir zum Beispiel auch oder Vimeo oder Youtube. Und wenn ich dann dadurch sozusagen dich dazu zwinge, dass deine personenbezogenen dann an diese Drittpartei gehen, dann muss ich vorher fragen, bevor ich das tue mit dem Cookie Banner.\n\nSpeaker 1: Mhm. Und\n\nSpeaker 2: ich muss dir erlauben, abzulehnen. Und dann siehst Du halt entweder kein Video und unsere Technologie kommt halt komplett ohne die Verarbeitung, die Erfassung von personenbezogenen Daten aus und damit ist sie sozusagen dann consentfrei. Und das ist erst mal der Grundgedanke. Der der der Rest ist sozusagen, also die Trennung von wirklich dem Storage auch ist das, was wir noch mal oben drauf gesetzt haben, die Sache aus unserer Sicht wirklich rundzumachen, wirklich da auch keine, auch die Videodaten der Kunden nicht nicht miteinander zu durchmischen und so weiter.\n\nSpeaker 0: Das heißt, ihr habt jetzt kein son klassisches Multitenant System gebaut, sondern es wird schon für jeden Kunden sone eigene Infrastruktur Umgebung geboostrappt in dem Moment, wo er sich anmeldet.\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau, zumindest was die Videoausspielung angeht. So die die, das ist eine eine Applikation, aber so gesehen ist es schon irgendwie Multi Tenant, aber ja, jeder Kunde hat eine eigene Content Delivery Pipeline, wenn man's mal so sehen will.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und seinen eigenen S-drei-Bucket und Genau. Überhaupt.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, ist auch der Player zum Beispiel. Also das ist dann eine statische Applikation, eine ganz kleine, die wir dann vorher bilden. Und die wird dann in jeden Bucket von jedem Kunden rein deployed.\n\nSpeaker 0: Das ist alles aus seinem aus seiner Domain Space geladen werden. Genau.\n\nSpeaker 2: Und der der Vorteil ist halt, dass wir auch gar keine eigene Server Middleware zwischen Bucket und CDN haben müssen, die irgendwie hops gehen kann bei gewisser Last. Das heißt, wir können bis zur Belastungsgrenze des CDN und des Storage kann kann da drauf geballert werden. Eigentlich kann das Ding nicht umfallen, es sei denn, die die Gesamtinfrastruktur bricht irgendwie in sich zusammen, aber dann hat das 'n jetzt andere Probleme als paar Videos. Und das das macht das extrem robust und sorgt noch mal auch zusätzlich dafür, dass wir auch gar nicht die sozusagen gar nicht die die Chance haben, jetzt irgendwie direkt da im größeren Maße Daten abzugreifen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Aber auch das CDN muss ja erst mal irgendwo herkommen.\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau.\n\nSpeaker 0: So. Und das habt ihr ja wahrscheinlich nicht selber gebaut, weil das ist ja auch relativ teuer und aufwendig so, ja. Sondern auch da müsst ihr irgendwie den nutzen. Wie war da die Suche nach 'nem Dienstleister dafür, der eure Vorstellung von teilt? Genau.\n\nSpeaker 2: Kompliziert, sag ich mal, weil wir dadurch, dass wir auf diese Abwicklung des ganzen Infrastruktur Set ups per API angewiesen sind am Ende des Tages, also wir sind jetzt aktuell haben wir irgendwie 700 plus Accounts bei uns im System von Kunden. Das heißt, wir verwalten irgendwie 700 plus buckets, 700 plus CDN Distribution, I m user, what soever. Am Ende sind wir jetzt aktuell bei der Auslieferungspipeline bei ABS mit s 3 und mit Cloud Front als CDN, das auszuspielen. Und haben immer mal jetzt wieder Versuche auch mit mit anderen Services da gemacht, aber am Ende kommst Du bei der Skalierung nicht drum rum, irgendjemand zu, also am Ende landest Du wieder bei einem von den Hyperskalern, wenn Du diese diesen Grad an API Fähigkeit zu haben auf dem Niveau, wie wir's irgendwie brauchen. Und dann dann bist Du da.\n\nUnd da funktioniert's allerdings auch wirklich sehr, sehr gut. Und jetzt können wir sagen, oh klar, AWS, also erstens klar, die die Daten liegen irgendwie dann in in Frankfurt davon und so weiter. Jetzt gibt's irgendwie grade wieder sehr das Thema Cloud Act und was ist denn wenn und so weiter, wenn da irgendjemand 'n Durchgriff stattfinden sollte. Der Clou am System ist halt einfach, dass gar keine personenbezogenen Daten erfasst werden, wenn jemand 'n Video guckt. Also gibt's auch nichts zu schützen in dem Sinne, was, da ist einfach nichts und\n\nSpeaker 1: Und vielleicht, das wär ja vorhin noch mal eine Frage gewesen, weil Du ja meintest, so eigentlich dieser Part mit eigener Infrastruktur und so was, das war das das und eigentlich erst mal gar nicht dafür notwendig, dass ich diesen Cookie Banner entferne. Kannst Du vielleicht mal probieren, uns möglichst einfach zu erklären, was ist denn grundsätzlich notwendig oder was, wenn man jetzt mal s 3 und diese ganzen technischen Finessen irgendwie weglässt, so, was ist denn das, was die Meeo erhebt, was ihr nicht erhebt? Und warum macht das vielleicht Meeo und warum ihr, na gut, warum ihr nicht, wissen wir. Aber was sind das für oder was was müsstet ihr tun in der einfachsten Form, das hinzustellen, ohne dass ihr jetzt diese Infrastruktur genauso baut?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja. Also warum ist immer eine gute Frage. Und das fängt ja auch, wie gesagt, Youtube zum Beispiel ist eigentlich auch klar, dass deren Interesse ist ja, dass sie zum Beispiel Informationen über Personen sammeln, an die dann Werbung ausgespielt werden können. Das heißt, sie brauchen diese personenbezogenen Daten. Sie wollen einen Cookie bei den Leuten setzen, damit sie sie mit Werbung targetnen können.\n\nJa. Ist das das Kerninteresse so wie Meu hat auch irgendwie 'n Teil davon davon als Geschäftsmodell, wobei sie sich da irgendwie jetzt mehrfach auch verändert haben, weil letztendlich tun sie am Ende dasselbe und erfassen halt auch den den Nutzer und stellen damit dann irgendwas an. Keine Ahnung, ob's dann da noch Data Reselling gibt, bei einigen ja, bei anderen nein, ist immer schwierig zu sagen von außen. Fakt ist, dass da diese Daten verarbeitet werden und es ist ja wie im Website Tracking, ist genau dasselbe Thema, also Website Analytics. Google Analytics kannst Du auch nicht consentfrei betreiben, da bist Du dann auch irgendwie bei entweder was selbstgehosteten oder bei so Plausible oder Simple Analytics, Matomo whatever.\n\nUnd die kriegen's ja auch hin, 'n gescheites Website Analytics ohne Personenbezug hinzukriegen. Und Google irgendwie auch nicht. Warum, weiß ich nicht, weil anscheinend, dass der Default Mode im Web grade bei den großen Anbietern so ist, dass sie alles über alle wissen wollen. Er schließt sich mir aber nicht, weil ich ja eigentlich denke, zum Beispiel dieses, ich möchte auch einfach nur meine Videos auf meiner Webseite haben, Punkt. Wieso müssen dafür personenbezogene Daten von meinen Besuchern an jemand Dritten gehen?\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja. Aber ist das wirklich so einfach oder vielleicht müssen wir kurz darüber sprechen, was personenbezogene Daten da wirklich sind, weil Vimeo trackt ja nicht nur für das Marketing, sondern ja auch für die Funktionalität, ne. Also funktioniert der Player, mit welcher Auflösung wird da gespielt? Die wollen ja auch son bisschen systemischer Analytics irgendwie haben am Ende des Tages und da seid ihr ja auch drauf angewiesen.\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau, aber dafür brauch ich ja eigentlich keinen Personenbezug. Den kann ich ja weglassen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Das weiß ich, ich sag so, müssen wir vielleicht darüber sprechen, was personenbezogen heißt an der Stelle, ne. Wenn ich wissen will, ob's immer bei demselben User nicht funktioniert, ist das dann schon 'n Personenbezug oder nicht? Also was könnt auch ihr jetzt noch erfassen und wo hört das dann bei euch auf, genau?\n\nSpeaker 2: Das ist tatsächlich immer ein Stretch für uns. Was wir nicht so einfach machen können, ist dann zum Beispiel aus unserem Player jetzt direkt auch da wieder fürs Tracking oder fürs Analytics einen Server API aufzurufen, sondern wir machen das dann entweder indirekt über die, wo bei uns auch in den Logs keine IPs und kein kein User Agent drinstehen beziehungsweise 'n gestripter User Agent. Und darüber können wir dann so was ermitteln wie wie wir beim Podcast sozusagen das Downloads Äquivalent, also Aufrufe, so gut gecleaned, wie's irgendwie geht. Wir können auch serverseitig dann natürlich sehen, wie viel Video Traffic abgerufen wurde. Und wenn's dann darüber hinausgeht, da sind wir jetzt grade dran, dass wir dann ein ein anonymes Signal sozusagen an eine an eine leere Telemetriedatei schicken, wo wir dann über die URL Parameter dranhängen.\n\nJetzt hat ein Play stattgefunden. Jetzt hat ein Passwort stattgefunden. Jetzt sind wir bei 80 Prozent, jetzt sind wir bei 90 Prozent, 100 Prozent abgespielt, auch diese Metriken bereitstellen zu können, aber eben ohne Personenbezug. Und dann kannst Du natürlich nicht so was wie Sessions da sagen oder nicht sagen, bei diesem User ist jetzt dieses Problem aufgetreten. Diese Daten stehen dir dann einfach schlicht nicht zur Verfügung.\n\nAlso Du kannst nicht die IP Adresse dann, Du könntest sie Es gibt immer so dieses mit berechtigte Interesse und dann gibt's da irgendwie auch Zeiten und dann wird sagt man irgendwie, 48 Stunden kannste noch. Das hatten wir in den ersten Monaten. Mittlerweile verzichten wir komplett auf die auch auf die IP Adresse in den in den Logs und in den Daten. Schränkt 'n bisschen ein, aber wir versuchen einfach die Finger, so gut es geht oder wir versuchen, wieder komplett vom Person bezogen da anzulassen, so.\n\nSpeaker 1: Nicht Es gibt sozusagen 'n paar Dinge, also so was, wie was vorher gemacht hast, Cookie, ihr setzt einfach explizit das nicht. Dann gibt's aber auch 'n paar Dinge, die ihr bekommen würdet, aber explizit sozusagen filtern müsst, wie IP Adressen, dass sie nicht in Logs landen, wie wie den User Agent. Das heißt, da müsst ihr wirklich aktiv was tun, beim anderen tut ihr's einfach nicht, sozusagen lasst einfach die Finger davon so. Und gibt's außer IP und User Agent noch irgendwas, was ihr, wenn jetzt 'n an euren Server kommt, was ihr noch filtern müsst?\n\nSpeaker 2: Nee, tatsächlich sind's eigentlich die beiden Dinge. Zum Glück nimmt da auch jetzt über auch über die letzten Monate die Möglichkeiten in der Infrastrukturkonfiguration zu, dass man da zum Beispiel die IP Adresse jetzt mittlerweile einfach wegklicken kann bei den. Dann macht, passiert das schon auf Infrastrukturebene. Macht's uns einfacher, müssen wir keinen keinen Listener laufen haben, der die Logs immer sofort auf die IP Adresse reinigt, sondern die sind dann, also kann man eben dann sich schon vorher weg wegkonfigurieren, das ist nice. Aber nee, das sind eigentlich die die beiden Dinge.\n\nAlles andere, klar, ne, wenn man wenn man will, könnte man shady Dinge tun und versuchen irgendwie son bisschen versteckt irgendwo im Browser wieder was abzulegen. Dann, keine Ahnung, beim Local Storage guckt weder dann nur jeder dritte Datenschutzbeauftragte nach oder weiß nicht was. Aber also Dinge, die wir nicht tun, aber es gibt natürlich immer Tricks. Wenn man mal so, wenn man mal guckt, wer was wo so ablegt bei sich aufm System, ist das manchmal auch ganz, ganz interessant. Das Einzige, was dann manchmal am Local Storage abgelegt wird im Player, sind, wenn zum Beispiel 'n Nutzer hergeht und in seinen barrierefrei, also in seinen Accessability Einstellungen im Player die Schriftgröße sagt, ja, ich möcht das 'n bisschen größer haben.\n\nDann landet das im Local Storage. Aber ohne ohne, dass das irgendwie an uns geht oder wie er darauf dann Ja. Dann zugreifen und aus, da steht dann halt, 14 p x. Da können wir keinen keinen Bezug draus herstellen.\n\nSpeaker 1: Und vielleicht kannst Du noch mal, weil wir jetzt die Infrastruktur noch gar nicht so ganz zu Ende erzählt haben, vielleicht kannst Du uns da noch mal den noch mal die Zusammenfassung geben, weil Du meinst, also wir haben verstanden, okay, S3, dann habt ihr 'n CDN da vorne dran, das ist ja eigentlich eine Infrastruktur eurer Kunden. Da hast Du aber auch von 'nem Player in der Website gesprochen, der dann eingebunden werden kann, der wiederum mit euren Servern kommuniziert. Also vielleicht kannst Du uns da noch mal die Komponenten erklären oder was da genau, wo eigentlich dieser, von dem ihr jetzt IP Adresse und User Agent wegstript, was genau dieser oder wo der landet so?\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau, also es ist alles das liegt in dieser in dieser Kette, den den die dem Kunden zugeordnet ist. Also, da liegen die Videoassets drin, da liegen die Thumbnails drin, die man hochlädt, da liegen die Untertiteldateien drin, die entweder generiert werden oder hochgeladen werden. Und der Player liegt alles in diesem Speicher und davor liegt der CDN Endpunkt, der aus diesem Speicher ausspielt. So, dann machen wir da eine Menge Access Rights Themen, dass wir wirklich, wenn ein Video gepublisht wird, auf Dateiebene Access Rights gegeben werden, damit die Datei von außen zugegriffen werden kann oder eben nicht, weil wir da ja auch wieder nicht mit Server Middleware sprechen. Das heißt, es gibt diesen dieses, der Player spricht nicht mit 'nem Server von uns.\n\nDer Videoplayer spricht nur mit diesem statischen Speicher. Deswegen gibt es dann auch zum Beispiel zu den zu den Videos, zu jedem Video gibt es dann Data Json, damit nicht unsere API angefragt werden muss, wenn irgendwas gemacht wird, sondern diese statische Datei gelesen wird, die wir von hinten sozusagen dann aktualisieren, sobald 'n Nutzer den Titel 1 Video Videos ändert.\n\nSpeaker 1: Das heißt aber eigentlich, lernen diese Logs und so was, wenn Du sprichst, wo irgendwie IP Adresse und dann auch User Engine drin, dann wird ja eigentlich in der Infrastruktur des eures Kunden und jetzt immer die Frage, warum muss das Nee, nee,\n\nSpeaker 2: nee, genau.\n\nSpeaker 0: In der Infrastruktur von ABS.\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau, genau und in unserer Infrastruktur. Das heißt, wir wir vermieten dann sozusagen diese Infrastruktur an den Kunden als Service, aber die ist ja in unserem Zugriff. Also die liegt nicht im Account.\n\nSpeaker 1: Nämlich konnte, weil theoretisch, wenn ich meinen eigenes Service auf ABS hoste und so was unter IP Adressen drin sind, dann bin ich ja erst mal noch nicht verpflichtet, dafür irgendwie einen einen Content Banner zu zeigen, so wenn's meiner wenn's mein eigener Service ist, den ich bei ABS hostet. Deswegen war der Punkt, den ich nicht so ganz verstanden hatte. Wenn es, also er liegt, weil weil aber dieser Service bei euch liegen, sie werden vermietet an an den Kunden, aber ihr theoretisch den Zugriff darauf habt, dass es sozusagen der, die Finesse Type das tun müsstet.\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau, deswegen sind wir ja auch irgendwie 'n Subprozessor in dieser in dieser Kette. Aber deswegen muss man halt gucken, dass halt diese Daten gar nicht gar nicht anfallen. Aber es ist tatsächlich immer auch gar nicht so leicht zu definieren und da tun sich auch irgendwie dann die die Datenschutzbeauftragten schwer, weil für dein Webhosting, das ist dann ja auch deins. Und letztendlich machen wir auch nichts anderes als sozusagen statisches Datehhosting nach außen dieser Videos anzubieten.\n\nSpeaker 0: Aber wie ist es denn, wenn ihr am Ende jetzt ja trotzdem Infrastruktur von 'nem Hyperscale nutzt, egal ob das jetzt bei AWS oder bei Google oder sonst irgendwo liegt, ne, und ihr vielleicht jetzt nicht in eurem Cloud Foundation Template irgendwie IP Adressen mitlockt oder so was, ja. Aber AWS kann es ja trotzdem machen. Weil ich mein, am Ende landen diese in AWS Infrastruktur oder bei Google oder sonst irgendwo, ne. Und die haben ja bestimmt trotzdem Interesse, das irgendwie mitzuloggen, weil sie am Ende, weiß nicht, DDoS Protection machen müssen oder also legitimes Interesse jetzt ab ganz ab von Marketing und so was alles, ja. Einfach nur für den Betrieb von der Plattform.\n\nDas ist dann aber für euch an der Stelle kein Beinbruch?\n\nSpeaker 2: Du kannst Du ja nichts dran machen. Also dazwischen ist es Ja, ja, Du\n\nSpeaker 0: musst trotzdem auch nicht eure Kunden dann drauf hinweisen oder so. Also das alleine würde jetzt den den Cookie Banner zum Beispiel noch nicht triggern. Genau, genau.\n\nSpeaker 2: Aber das\n\nSpeaker 1: ist die gleiche Problematik, die wir ja auch haben, die hat ja jeder, wenn Du Ja,\n\nSpeaker 0: weil wir haben ja auch 'n Cookie Banner. Uns ist ja sozusagen egal, weil wir können ja alles miteinander reinschmeißen.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, aber erst mal nicht, deswegen nur weil wir bei Google des Google das Ganze hosten. Wenn wir jetzt keine Excellen Service haben, nur weil wir unseren Service hosten, das sind ja wirklich die Daten, die sozusagen auch offiziell bei uns liegen. Was da drin liegt, ist, gehört sozusagen uns und das wird nicht betrachtet, wie wir schicken das einen an einen dritten Dienstleister. So, wir haben diesen Cookie Banner ja drin wegen anderen Services, wir dann nutzen können. Nee, ich\n\nSpeaker 0: glaub, ich glaub, Du hast mich verstanden. Es geht nicht darum, dass jetzt zum Beispiel bei uns die die Profilbilder bei Google liegen und deshalb quasi Google Fotos von uns hat, sondern in dem Moment, wo bei unserem Spiel auf so ein Profilbild zugreifen wird, landet ja die IP Adresse von dem Zuggreifenden trotzdem bei Google. Genau. Ist egal, ob wir die mitprotokollieren oder nicht. Aber wenn wir\n\nSpeaker 1: nur Google als Service drin hätten, bräuchten wir keinen Cookie Banner dafür, weil wir hosten ja unsere Infrastruktur bei Google. Wir haben diese Cookie Banner drin wegen anderen Services, nicht weil wir auf Google hosten und deswegen meine ich nur, diese Problematik hat man ja hat ja jeder, der da hostet, sonst wäre ja nur, weil ich, wenn ich meine, sobald ich meine Infrastruktur nicht selbst hoste, muss ich etwas anzeigen und das ist ja nicht die Welt da draußen. So deswegen würde ich sagen, das ist das gleiche Beispiel wie bei uns auch.\n\nSpeaker 2: Du sagst, das ist\n\nSpeaker 0: nicht die Welt da draußen, aber für mich war das grade mit 'nem Fragezeichen, weil also gefühlt hat ja de facto jeder son Cookie Banner da draußen, ja. Und was da genau jetzt der ausschlaggebende Grund ist, warum man das initial mal eingeführt hat, das weiß ja wahrscheinlich heute, also wissen die Allerwenigsten noch so, oder?\n\nSpeaker 2: Oder? Aber es gibt und es gab oder gibt ja auch tatsächlich dieser dieser Unterhaltung, ist sozusagen die Präsenz 1 Webseite grundsätzlich eigentlich konsenpflichtig? Also musst Du und dann wird's natürlich irgendwie auch absurd. Das ist dann so wie dieses, Du kaufst dir 'n Kaffee und da steht drauf, Achtung, heiß. Denkst Du, ja, danke Sherlock dafür, weil Und es gibt Leute, die die sehen das vielleicht so, es gibt die, also es gibt's jetzt aber nicht her, es sind konsenfreie Webseiten möglich.\n\nAber prinzipiell funktioniert ja so nun mal das Web, dass jetzt zumindest die IP Adresse bei jedem Request mitgeschickt wird. Dann kannst Du 'n VPN nutzen, dann geht's bis zum VPN, danach ist es eine andere, aber selbst bis zum VPN geht dann deine IP Adresse. Das heißt, dann hat sie nicht Google, AWS, die Telekom, Vodafone, die Netzbetreiber, die haben sie sowieso. Ja. Aber dann hat sie halt deinen VPN Betreiber und brauchst Du den Also ohne die IP Adresse funktioniert das Internet halt nicht.\n\nUnd deswegen ist, glaub ich, auch son bisschen dieses IP Adressen Thema in diesem Bereich des berechtigten Interesses etwas lockerer gehandhabt, weil's glaub ich sonst. Also dann kannst Du den Laden zumachen, wenn dann dann dann kann sie nichts mehr vernünftig benutzen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Euren Infrastrukturanbieter nicht als irgendwie Subprocessor ausweisen oder so?\n\nSpeaker 2: Doch, doch, natürlich, natürlich. Okay. Ja, das das ist der Fall. Also Du kannst auch mit uns kriegst son AVV, wo dann genau drinsteht, wo unsere Daten liegen, also Subprocessor. Und oft ist es ja auch so, wenn wenn sozusagen Webhosting an sich auch von HTML Dateien, was auch immer so, ne, von deiner eigenen Webseite sozusagen konsenspflicht wäre, dann hättest Du auf jeder Webseite hinterher 'n Content Banner, weil wer betreibt ja noch seine Server so wirklich selbst selbst?\n\nUnd dann ist ja vielleicht der, dann ist der Netzanschluss der Fall, dann ist es, ne, dann ist es die Telekom\n\nSpeaker 0: Aber Du wirst lachen. Also meine Webseite liegt bei GitHub oder GitLab, weil ich geizig bin und die das für mich umsonst hosten so. Und als das das, als sie irgendwann mal gerefactet hab und so bla, da kamen Leute auf mich zu haben, so, ja, aber Du musst ja darauf hinweisen, dass das irgendwie auf auf GitHub Infrastruktur liegt und so. Also es gibt Leute, die sind son bisschen Ja, gut, weil das nur noch paranoide.\n\nSpeaker 1: Zwischen Datenschutzerklärung, wo Du's irgendwie reinschreibst und der Unterschied, ob das 'n ob Du 'n Content dafür brauchst. Also das ist ja dann, Du musst trotzdem reinschreiben, wo das Ganze liegt. Eine Datenschutzerklärung brauchst Du, aber eben nicht den Content dafür einholen.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, da ist Datenschutzerklärung wichtig und da gehören auch wir rein und dann, ne, gibt's wieder da Subprozessoren, Subprozessoren, Subprozessoren. Und dann guckt man in die Subprozessorliste von den Hyperscellern oder auch von anderen Hostern auch, whatever, dann ist die auch wieder lang bis hin zum irgendwie, weiß ich nicht, Rechenzentrumsbetreiber, der der oft auch noch hintersteht, weil der auch oft dann die Rechenzentren an sich, jetzt ist vielleicht bei den Hyperskellern anders, aber die sind dann auch oft ausgelagert und irgendwo eingemietet. Und ja, also das\n\nSpeaker 1: Aber Ich finde dieses Thema auch so, ich hab die auch 'n paar kleinere Bilder zu entwickeln, unter anderem die für die Praxis von meiner von meiner Frau. Und da ist auch so, also ich, meiner Meinung nach bin ich fein damit, dass ich dann nur eine Datenschutzerklärung hab und keinerlei Content so, aber ist halt auch so, ich hab das jetzt auch noch nie. Oh, jetzt\n\nSpeaker 0: hast Du's hier laut gesagt, Fabi, jetzt gehen alle auf die Webseite und\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, genau, morgen. Morgen. Feedback, wenn ihr wenn ihr das anders seht. Also ich sag jetzt, wenn ihr müsst schon in die Arbeit reinstecken, welche Seite das ist und dann gebt mal gerne Feedback, ob ihr denkt, dass ich da was falsch mache. Aber dann mich nicht gern gerne nirgendwo anschwätzt, sondern mir Bescheid geben.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja. Weil das ist ja auch so das Ding, man, also man sollte es schon vernünftig machen. Ich denk halt einfach für die meisten Dinge, grade Drittanbieter brauchen gar nicht in diesem Umfang immer diese personenbezogenen Daten. Klar, auch Marketer sind natürlich drauf aus, mehr über ihre Zielgruppe zu lernen, immer mehr zu wissen und man braucht irgendwie auch 'n Web Analytics, logisch. Menschen ja, ich mein, wir wollen auch unser Produkt natürlich irgendwie unters unters Volk bringen logischerweise, aber da zumindest zu gucken, was gibt es denn für Optionen, die halt einfach ohne diesen Zusatzbezug auskommen, halt am Ende, wo's ja uns drum geht, es irgendwie das Web wieder benutzbarer zu machen, eben vielleicht mal auf einen Pfad zu kommen, wo, wenn jemand dann konsenfrei Analytiktool hat, 'n konsenfreies Videohosting und was auch immer man sonst noch so gerne hat, 'n konsenfreies Capture, all diese Dinge sind ja alle sonst konsenpflichtig, konsenfreies Kartentool für die für die Kontaktseite, dass man mal wieder auf eine Webseite geht und nicht erst diese Tapete wegklicken muss, die einem halt da entgegengeschmissen wird.\n\nSpeaker 0: Jetzt ist die die Wünsche von euren Kunden und den den Marketer, so ist ja das eine. Eure Entwickler oder ihr selbst seid ja auch erst mal die erste Zielgruppe sozusagen davon. Wie oft habt ihr denn eine Idee für und denkt euch so, oh, das wär ja voll gut, wenn wir das bauen können. Und dann merkt ihr, ah, es geht aber gar nicht. Weil wir wollen ja contentfrei sein.\n\nSpeaker 2: Das beste Beispiel ist wahrscheinlich seit 'nem paar Monaten haben wir jetzt auch im im sozusagen mittlerweile Livestream auch auf als Funktion mit drin unter derselben Prämisse. Und da kommt natürlich von Kunden immer die Frage, gibt's 'n Chat? Gibt's irgendwie oder also, wie soll's sagen? Gibt's Interaktionsfunktionalität? Und da sind wir mal an dem Punkt, wo wir doch wo wir noch keinen Hebel haben, wo wir sagen, ja, das das können wir mit anbieten.\n\nDu könntest es vielleicht irgendwie über über Umwege machen, vollkommen unkontrolliert, ohne dass sich die Leute irgendwie ausweisen in Anführungsstrichen, aber eigentlich\n\nSpeaker 0: Liegt immer nach 'ner guten Idee.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, ja, genau. Sozusagen, eigentlich würd's dir mindestens mal 'n Namensfeld haben und vielleicht eine E-Mail-Adresse. Vielleicht willst Du's sogar irgendwie moderieren können und dann dann bist Du grade 'n bisschen aufgeschmissen. Das das können wir dann so nicht anbieten grade. Und das ist noch nicht gelöst.\n\nJa, ist so, das ist zum Beispiel son Thema.\n\nSpeaker 1: Aber ist das nicht am Ende auch, also seid ihr dann wirklich so, jetzt sind wir eher in Produktdiskussionen drin so, dass ihr, theoretisch sind's ja Funktionalitäten, wenn sind's ja Funktionalitäten, wenn dann irgendwelche kommen, wo man sagt, hey, die gehen halt einfach nicht, weil es eben dafür braucht's, man will wissen, welche Person es ist, weil es für die Funktionalität notwendig ist so. Ist das, schließt es einfach kategorisch aus. So sagt ihr, gut, vielleicht wird das Produkt auch insofern dabei, dass es halt bestimmte Bereiche gibt, in denen dann dieses Privacy First eben nicht mehr gilt so und was einfach ganz klar getrennt ist.\n\nSpeaker 2: Nee, das kategorisch ausgeschlossen hat. Also das schließen wir wirklich kategorisch aus, weil wir wollen und das ist ja sehr, sehr, sehr wichtig, wir wollen das das Commitment dazu, dass unsere Lösung consentfrei ist, weil eben keine Personen mit sogenannten Daten von von euren Websitebesuchern gesammelt werden. Und wie sagt man? Ist das, glaube ich, wenn man damit irgendwie mal dann anfängt. Was wir versuchen, ist eher die, sag mal, die Interation einfacher zu machen oder es einfach zu machen, vielleicht eigene Tools oder anderes anzudocken.\n\nJa, was Script API für den für den Player, wo man draufgehen kann, wo man listen kann, was passiert, vielleicht selbst entscheiden kann, ob 'n Formular hochploppt am Ende von 'nem Video. Auch das ist son Thema, Leads Leads sammeln in Videos, gibt's ja explizit Anbieter für, die das sozusagen anbieten. Irgendwie Gated Video Content, vorher musst Du dann irgendwie E-Mail-Adresse und irgendwas angeben und Name und dann siehst Du das Video. Nein, so das Aber was wir machen wollen, ist die Möglichkeit geben, eventuell was Eigenes obendrauf zu setzen, aber so, dass wir die Finger davon lassen können, ja.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ich hab eine doofe Zwischenfrage, weil Fabi grade gefragt hat, ob irgendwo dieses seine Grenze hat. Und nur das Wording hier einmal grade zu ziehen, was versteht ihr unter und was versteht ihr unter concentfrei? Weil man könnt ja auch einen Chat irgendwie, ne, datensparsamen, konservativ irgendwie umsetzen so, ja. Dann wäre halt nur nicht mehr consentfrei, weil ihr halt dann diese Daten verarbeiten müsst am Ende des Tages, ja. Aber hab ich das richtig verstanden, dass also dass Content war ja eigentlich das Ding ist, was für euch das Ausschlaggebende ist und nicht unbedingt der der Privacy Faktor, weil ihr seid am glücklichsten damit, wenn Privacy quasi gar nicht erst notwendig ist, weil die Daten nicht da sind.\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau. Und jetzt sag ich mal, Privacy first ist der der Marketingbegriff, unter dem man dies diese Kategorie von von Tools zusammenfassen würde wahrscheinlich, die sich dem selbst so auferlegt haben. Aber das ist kein belastbarer Begriff in dem Sinne, sondern es ist 'n, auch 'n Marketing Buzzword am Ende wahrscheinlich. Aber wenn Du dann irgendwie so googles, dann heißt das nämlich Privacy First Web Analytics, Privacy First Videohosting, so, das irgendwie ein selbstauferwähltes auferlegtes Marketinglabel.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und ihr habt das jetzt ja für Video quasi euch euch darauf spezialisiert. Ist das eine besonders schwere oder eine besonders leichte Domäne in dem Kontext? Oder wär jetzt, wenn ich jetzt sagen würde, ich will contentfreies Podcasting oder ein Privacy first CMS oder was es halt noch so alles an an gängigen Plattformen quasi da draußen gibt, wäre irgendwas davon besonders leicht oder besonders schwer umzusetzen?\n\nSpeaker 2: Also zum Thema consent freie Podcast hatten wir schon 'n paar Anfragen, weil das das eine ist ja, 'n Podcast an sich wird dann in der App gehört, gibt's ja auch keinen expliziten Content, wenn jetzt, weiß nicht, auf Apple gibt's dann oder auf iOS hast Du dann mittlerweile diesen sehr klaren App Tracking ablehnen Banner, der dann kommt. Ich weiß gar nicht, wie es auf Android geregelt ist, aber das Thema wird ja immer dann oder kommt dann auf, wenn's eben drum geht, dass Du irgendwo auf 'ner auf 'ner Webseite irgendwas einbetttest oder auf oder auf 'ner Plattform, wo dann da an 'ner Dritte wiederum gehen. Und da hatten wir dann zum Beispiel auch schon das Thema, kann ich für euch auch 'n Podcast hochladen, wenn ich den bei mir auf der Webseite einbetten will, weil der Podcastplayer, auch von irgendwie diversen deutschen Podcast Toastern, die haben dann 2 im Bett Codes auch, aber die sind auch nicht contentfrei. Ja. Und so, da sind wir jetzt auch grad 'n bisschen dran am rumdenken.\n\nKann sein, dass es demnächst auch irgendwie noch 'n Audio only Upload gibt, ohne dass wir jetzt Podcasthoster werden, sondern eher in dem Podcast Hosting bleibt bei den Podcast Hostern.\n\nSpeaker 0: Das müsste quasi meinen meinen RSS Feed selber irgendwo anbieten, aber ich könnte euch quasi als CDN benutzen für die Auslieferung.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja und dann so das mal gucken, ob das und wie irgendwie passiert, aber tatsächlich kommt die Frage immer mal wieder von Kunden. Bei Content Management Systemen weiß ich jetzt nicht, ist ja 'n reines Backend Thema. Ich glaub, das da stellt sich die Frage nicht so nicht so wirklich.\n\nSpeaker 0: Na ja, weiß ich gar nicht. Also es gibt ja, also wieso ist das 'n reines 'n reines Backend Thema? Auch wenn ich jetzt eine mittelgroße Zeitung bin und 'n CMS betreibt, dann wird ja jedes Bild oder so bei jedem Seitenaufruf wird ja geladen aus meiner Infrastruktur oder so.\n\nSpeaker 2: Aber Du bist ja die erste Partei. Du bist ja die First Party. Also das sind ja deine Bilder.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, je nachdem, wo sie halt dann liegen und so auch wieder, ne.\n\nSpeaker 2: Da sind wir wieder beim Sentintümer wie vorhin, ist das dann schon Datenübermittlung an jemand Dritten laut der Definition und beim Content nicht, weil's dann, weil Du die erste Partei bist. Auch da kann man natürlich zum Thema, was bedeutet denn First Party und Third Party? Wir bieten jetzt unseren Kunden zum Beispiel auch an, im Self Service eine eigene Domain zu connecten, damit das nicht unter, ne, irgendwie wie jetzt Youtube dot com oder so was kommt oder eben egnite Punkt so und so oder jetzt auch selbst unsere generische Domain, die mit Kundenname Punkt eu Video CDN Punkt com ist, sondern dass Du dann auch deine Videos Punkt Programmier Punkt Bar connecten kannst. Und dann Warum\n\nSpeaker 0: will ich das?\n\nSpeaker 2: Weil es dann selbst auf Network Traffic Ebene nicht mehr differenzierbar ist von deiner Domain. Das ist dann sozusagen auf der Domain Ebene First Party.\n\nSpeaker 0: Aber aber für wen ist das ausschlaggebendes Kriterium? Also wenn ich jetzt wieder bei dem Phantasialand Beispiel bleibe, ja, also ich glaub den allerwenigsten Phantasialand Webseitenbesuchern ist es wichtig, wo das herkommt. Für wen ist das aber wichtig?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, für den für den, der die die Seite durchsucht und guckt, was ist denn da so für 'n Tradeparty Traffic irgendwie drauf.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ah, okay.\n\nSpeaker 2: Das ist so. Und wir haben auch Kunden tatsächlich, die, also man kann nicht nur die M-Mails bei uns machen, sondern Du kannst auch einfach eine Video URL teilen. Also wenn ich dir jetzt 'n Video schicken will zum Angucken, wie Du das auf Youtube und wem auch kannst, kann ich dir, ne, Über die URL schicken.\n\nSpeaker 0: Direkt zur MP4 Datei irgendwie das\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, oder direkt zu dem Player. Also wirklich dann auch der Player mit dem mit dem Video und dann hast Du deine eigene Domain. Das ist wie, wenn Du 'n Ding von dir selbst verschickst. Ist ja schöner dann, als wenn's jemand Drittes ist. Aber das hat so dann alles natürlich seine Ebenen.\n\nWenn Du jetzt deine deine Bilder Assets übern CDN ausspielst, vielleicht noch mal separat von deiner von deiner eigentlichen Website, connectest ja in der Regel auch irgendwie sone Assets Punkt Sub Sub Domain von deiner eigenen Toplevel Domain im Optimalfall. Mhm. So, dasselbe Schema.\n\nSpeaker 0: Weil Du grad die Teilbarkeit von den Video URLs angesprochen hast, ist DM für euch irgend 'n Thema?\n\nSpeaker 2: Also wir bieten's nicht an und weil dafür auch sehr viel Checks hin- und herlaufen müssen. Es kommt sehr selten die Frage dazu, da ist man dann aber tatsächlich eher so im Bereich der wirklich der der Streamer mit irgendwie lizenziertem Content. Dafür sind wir dann auch die falsche Plattform. Das das ist ja 'n Thema, wo Du dann DM Server, die Signaturübermittlung, also das ist 'n sehr, das wird dann schnell sehr komplex und da sind dann ja selbst irgendwie Netflix und Co sehr hinterher, das überhaupt erst mal gescheit hinzukriegen, das sicher zu bekommen.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, ich könnt dir noch mal kurz erklären für alle draus nach DMS, weil ich glaub, ist nicht jedem Begriff.\n\nSpeaker 2: Okay. Genau. Also Digital Rights Management ist das das Thema. Das heißt, da geht's drum, die sozusagen den den Datenverkehr nur wirklich an Menschen zu erlauben, die auch das Recht besitzen, auf dieses Asset zuzugreifen mit sozusagen, Du, also ne, Du hast irgendwie 'n Netflix Abo und kannst dann diese ganze Verbindung, diese Kette von Netflix zu dir ist halt sicher und auf gar keinen Fall kann da irgendwas von links und rechts rein, eventuell dazwischenzugehen, diesen diesen Stream abzugreifen und der läuft dann auch dann automatisch ab, ist irgendwie gehascht. Also das, aber tiefer als das bin ich im DM Thema auch nicht drin.\n\nSpeaker 0: Vielleicht noch 'n halben Schritt zurückzugehen, wenn ich mir jetzt das durchschnittliche Youtube Video angucke oder Vimeo, dann haben die ja auch keine klassische DM Lösung, dass da irgendwie signiert das Videomaterial durch die Gegend geschoben wird oder so. Aber die machen's ihren Zuschauern ja trotzdem nicht leicht, an das Rohvideo zu kommen, auch wenn's da bestimmt Tools für gibt, irgendwie Youtube Videos runterzuladen oder so. Aber ist es auf der Ebene für euch irgendwie 'n Thema zu sagen, wir haben da schon irgendwie 'n Interesse dran, dass man jetzt nicht, weiß ich nicht, ne, im Player Rechtsklick machen kann und das Video irgendwie hier runterladen kann? Ist das für eure Kunden auch wichtig oder ist das weiß ich nicht, überhaupt gar kein Thema mehr heutzutage?\n\nSpeaker 2: Also ist schon auch wichtig, dass Ja, boah wichtig. Also ne, wir wissen, glaub ich, wenn man 'n bisschen da drin ist, wissen wir alles, was im Netz ist und irgendwie auf 'nem Bildschirm wiedergegeben wird, so nutz mach ich 'n Screenrekorder an und zeichne das auf und dann, also wenn ich's wirklich will.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, da da so auf der Ebene für für dich und mich und Fabian so ist das alles klar, aber für die die Kunden, die jetzt quasi zu euch kommen, legen die da irgendwie Wert darauf? Ist das für das so in deren Requirement Checkliste son Punkt, dass da steht so, boah, wenn mein Video auf ignoriert ist, dann kann da nicht jeder das irgendwie gleich runterladen oder so.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ist es, je nach Use Case, also aber grade, wenn's vielleicht jetzt irgendwie so Webinar Contest so, so spielt das eine Rolle. Und tatsächlich ist es aber, das ist dann ja auch bei bei Youtube für mich ja auch nicht anders, dadurch, dass Du dieses adaptive Streaming benutzt, machst Du's den Leuten schon mal schwieriger, das so einfach runterzuladen. Also wir nutzen den Play Ads sich auch einfach eine m p 4, sondern eben auch adaptive Streaming. Wenn Du da halt eine Stunde Video hast, musst Du halt sehr viele 6 Sekunden Chunks dir mit irgend 'nem Tool wieder zusammenschneiden und Du musst die die die Also es ist halt einfach, gibt's Tools für, ja, aber es ist jetzt nicht einfach rechte Maustaste speichern. Also das ist auch bei uns nicht der Fall und die Sicherheit ist immer relativ, aber diese diese Art der Absicherung ist auch da und ist auch wichtig, ja.\n\nSpeaker 1: Okay. Und vielleicht, wenn ihr jetzt irgendwie überlege so, ich als Hörer da draußen, der ist irgendwie hörend, der habt dich irgendwie grad reden hören über Privacy first und denk so, ja, eigentlich eigentlich hatte ich ja total recht. Ich hab keine Lust mehr auf diese auf diese Banner da und es klang jetzt gar nicht so kompliziert, was ihr jetzt gemacht habt mit darauf einfach zu achten so. Frag ich mich, ihr seid ja auch gleichzeitig noch im Agentur Business und baut Webseiten, so habt seitdem ihr dieses so Privacy First Videoplattform entwickelt, irgendwie sich euer Paradigma verändert, wie ihr dann auch grundsätzliche Applikationen baut? Also gibt es, oder andersrum gefragt, gibt es Dinge, auf die ich, wenn ich jetzt meine Seite baue, mein Produkt baue, irgendwie darauf achten kann?\n\nGibt's 'n typisches Stack, was ihr habt, wenn ich sage, okay, Privacy first ist was, was ich gerne angehen möchte, so? Hat das hat das beeinflusst, wie ihr Produkte baut, seitdem ihr Ignite gebaut habt?\n\nSpeaker 2: Mhm. Also mittlerweile ist ja Ignite wirklich komplett getrennt, auch vom Agenturbusiness, das heißt eigener Firma. Auch ich bin da jetzt einhundert Prozent bei Ignite drin vom Fokus her. Die Agentur läuft weiter, da bin ich noch involviert, aber nicht mehr operativ so. Und nichtsdestotrotz, jetzt, sag ich mal, beim beim Videothema ist jetzt klar, welche Lösungen variiert wird.\n\nUnd ansonsten hängt es natürlich gerade, da arbeiten wir jetzt auch irgendwie für sehr große Unternehmen, die kommen eigentlich immer mit 'nem Stack an Tools schon daher.\n\nSpeaker 1: Das heißt,\n\nSpeaker 2: die sagen, das ist unser Tracking, das ist unser AB-Testing Tool, das ist unser CRM, bitte rein. Aber wenn Du natürlich irgendwo hin beraten kannst, würd ich auf jeden Fall jedem raten, mal so zu schauen, wie wie sieht denn so der Tool Stack aus? Wofür gibt es vielleicht Alternativen, die eben ohne Content auskommen würden? Und hab ich vielleicht sogar die realistische Chance, ohne dass ich 'n 'n Outcome Verschlechterung hab, Tools auszutauschen und vielleicht den Cookie Banner komplett loszuwerden auf meiner Seite? Also Web Analytics, Captchas, Videos.\n\nUnd da muss man schon gucken, was, weiß nicht, was habt ihr noch so auf der Webseite? Habt ihr noch was im Kopf? Targeting Pixel, also in der Google Ads Retargeting Pixel\n\nSpeaker 0: machen wir ja kein großes.\n\nSpeaker 1: Haben wir haben wir 'n Content Baller bei unserer Homepage?\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja. Was heißt das? Wir haben sonen Baller, Du musst nur mal kurz deinen deinen Cache alles löschen. Der kommt da beim ersten Besuch. Wir haben aber auch mit, was wir fürs Tracking nutzen, halt eine Lösung, die so sehr minimalistisch ist, ja.\n\nIch muss ehrlicherweise sagen, dass wir Youtube für die Video im Bett benutzen, so, ja. Und natürlich Da\n\nSpeaker 2: hab ich unseren.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und natürlich unseren eigenen Podcast Host für die Podcasts im Bett so. Aber grade bei den Youtube Videos könnt man jetzt natürlich sagen, als das gebaut hat, war natürlich Youtube einfach so die go to go Lösung. Also da muss man auch sagen, wir haben's natürlich geschafft, über Jahrzehnte sonen MindShare irgendwie sich zu ergattern, dass jeder, der im Web irgendwas mit Video macht, da hindefaltet eigentlich, ne. Wahrscheinlich aber auch, weil es aus 'ner Zeit kommt, wo videotechnisch nicht ganz so trivial war so, ja. Also ohne jetzt eure Lösung klein zu lesen, aber heute gibt's immer hinten 'n Videoelement, was man benutzen kann, so.\n\nJa, das gab's ja früher gar nicht. Also als ich angefangen hab mit Web Development, da war's noch Flashplayer,\n\nSpeaker 2: so, die man gebraucht hat, Fabi Videos\n\nSpeaker 0: so, ja. Fabi schmunzelt auch schon.\n\nSpeaker 2: Waren noch die schönen FLV Files, die man da vorher noch special informieren musste.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja. Und b, Du hast dich die Flash Extension in deinem Browser erzählt und dann war's vorbei mit Videos. Und da, also da ist ja Youtube quasi groß geworden. Da war's natürlich trivial für alle zu sagen, okay, wenn wir Videos machen wollen, nehmen wir irgendwie Youtube. Und wenn ich mir jetzt anguck, okay, ich würde Ignite als als Alternative in Betracht ziehen wollen, ist, glaub ich, 'n guter Punkt, auch mal so über Pricing zu reden.\n\nAlso jetzt nicht eure Pricingpunkte im im Allgemeinen, das ist ja euer Ding. Aber so, einfach son bisschen, glaub ich, Verständnis dafür zu entwickeln, warum das halt so viel kostet, wie es kostet, ja. Weil natürlich die Leute wahrscheinlich schon erst mal draufgucken und sagen, ja, bei Youtube krieg ich das für umsonst, bei Vimeo zahl ich, weiß ich nicht was, so, ja. Und bei euch steht jetzt hier x Euro im Monat. Wieso denn überhaupt so, ja?\n\nSpeaker 2: Also ab 9 Euro im Monat? Ja, also das, aber also das ist 'n Punkt. Also Youtube vielleicht erst mal da ist wär auch vollkommen legitim. Das ist auch erst mal, je nachdem, was man macht, sollte man, glaube ich, auch auf Youtube präsent sein mit seinem Video Content, weil man da ja auch eine ganz eigene Search hat. Man kann da eine Content\n\nSpeaker 1: Das ist auch die Das ist auch die auch die\n\nSpeaker 0: auch die warum wir auf Youtube sind. Genau.\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau. Man kann da Community aufbauen und das wär auch vermessen zu sagen, Jani, lass das sein und leg deine Videos zu uns. Wir haben ja gar keine Public Plattform. Wir sind ja wirklich dann sozusagen Service für Websitebetreiber. Was dann aber natürlich doof ist, wenn wir jetzt dann in die EU gehen, Thema Consent ist, dass wenn Du dann das natürlich für nutzt auf deiner Seite auch gleichzeitig, dass Du dann eben da die Hälfte deiner Nutzer irgendwie verlierst, weil da so die, je nach Ablehnungsrate, die Du so hast, so, die sehen dann halt einfach initial das Video nicht.\n\nDas heißt, da gibt's dann einfach die Option zu sagen, ja, dann packt man halt diese Videos zu uns und packt dann vielleicht auch 'n coolen irgendwie netten Call to Action unters Video. Wenn Du sagst, hey, fandste cool, dann klick hier und folg uns doch auch auf Youtube, dann kriegst Du immer noch mehr von uns mit. Cool, Absolut legitim. Überhaupt gar nichts gegen einzuwenden. Und was war jetzt mein Wort?\n\nSpeaker 0: Also mir geht's, glaub ich, Preising. Darauf, genau, darauf hinzuweisen, dass der der Preis, den ihr verlangt, egal wie hoch oder niedrig der jetzt ist, ja, der ist ja eigentlich nur 'n Indikator von dem, was Youtube und andere Plattformen eigentlich an diesen Videos verdienen. Weil auch die machen das ja nicht aus Nächstenliebe, so, sondern die haben ja auch Verrückt. Da muss man mal bei unserem Cloud Konto anfragen, warum die da überhaupt was abrechnen, Barbie. So, und die verdienen ja quasi.\n\nAlso man sagt ja immer so, wenn man wenn man nicht für das Produkt bezahlt, ist man selber das Produkt, das geflügelte Wort. Und wenn man jetzt quasi bei euch sieht, was quasi Videohosting kostet, dann sieht man so im Umkehrschluss ja auch, was Youtube an mir verdient, wenn ich da meine Videos in Anführungszeichen umsonst hosten lasse.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, wahrscheinlich verdient Youtube mehr als wir ziemlich sicher sogar. Und also das ist natürlich genau der Punkt. Das heißt, wir, was sozusagen ja eigentlich schon immer möglich war, also ich hab irgendwie genug Geld oder 'n Entwicklungs- oder IT Team, was auch immer und dann kann ich darauf ansetzen, kann ich das, was wir machen, mehr oder weniger selbst hinstellen? Baue ich sone Pipeline? Baue ich mein CDN?\n\nMach ich das? Gib x 1000 Euro dafür aus und hab das? Das können dann die größere Unternehmen können das oder mit 'ner entsprechenden Expertise, aber wer das nicht kann, sind alle irgendwie im kleineren Segment. Alles, wo jetzt irgendwie nicht 'n x-Menschenteam irgendwie da ist oder das Geld da ist. Und bei uns war eigentlich die Herausforderung zu sehen, wie schaffen wir's eigentlich, dann auch den den kleinen Websitebetreibern auch zu ermöglichen, nicht Youtube benutzen zu müssen, vielleicht oder nicht wie Meo nicht, was oder war JW Player, wisst ihr, ja, was es alles halt irgendwie so gibt, sondern eine Alternative zu haben, die eben nicht Unmengen an Geld kostet ab xhundert Euro im Monat, sondern irgendwie günstig ist.\n\nUnd das, also das war so der Anspruch, der Stretch, den wir versuchen hinzubekommen. Deswegen haben wir gesagt, okay, irgendwie 'n 9 Euro im Monat müssen wir hinkriegen für die Kleinen, haben wir auch hinbekommen. Dann geht's irgendwie hoch, aber bei Youtube ist es natürlich erst mal kostenlos. Das heißt, die den Sprung hinzukriegen, ist mir das überhaupt was wert, wenn nur ein Video auf meiner Webseite einfach direkt sichtbar ist ohne diesen Content oder eben nicht und dann nehm ich weiterhin Youtube. Und diese diese Abwägung ist legitim, in die eine oder andere Richtung irgendwie zu treffen.\n\nMein mein Gedanke dahinter war zumindest der, wenn ich jetzt irgendwie mit dem Video auf meinen Plattformen irgendwas bezwecke, irgendwie irgendwas dabei gedacht habe, dann habe ich vielleicht auch die 9 Euro im Monat oder halt irgendwie plus plus plus, je nachdem, was ich so brauche, das einzubetten. Weil der Mehrwert, den ich darin sehe, dass das Video von allen gesehen werden kann, mir groß genug erscheint, das so zu tun. Und so, ja, Punkt.\n\nSpeaker 0: Der Großteil eurer Nutzer oder Frage, für den Großteil eurer Nutzer, was ist das entscheidendere Argument? Sind das dann eher die Kunden, die sagen, wie das Phantasialand Beispiel, ich will das einfach möglichst invasiv und ich will dieses ganze Cookie Thema irgendwie umgehen? Oder sind das eher Kunden, die sagen, meinen Kunden wiederum ist Privacy halt irgendwie megawichtig und ich würde das gerne quasi stringent eben auch auf der Infrastruktur- und Plattformseite behandeln und dementsprechend komm ich zu euch? Was ist da mal das stärkere Argument?\n\nSpeaker 2: Also wir haben auch in den letzten Wochen noch mal vermehrt gelernt, dass dieses ganze, dieses Mal, Konsensfreiheit zwar irgendwie schon so der USP ist, aber dass danach sehr wenig Leute suchen, weil's anscheinend nicht, also ist so, ist Punkt auch. Und auf der anderen Seite ist es dann so, dass, sagen wir mal, es gibt Bereiche, wir haben ja zum Beispiel irgendwie Kliniken, wo es halt medizinische Themen geht, Pharma, Bildung mit Jugendlichen, die sagen, für die ist das ganz klar 'n Thema, dass keine personenbezogenen Daten von deren Zielgruppe irgendwie an Dritte gehen, die daraus Werbung machen. Also ich weiß ich nicht, ich guck mir jetzt irgendwie das Bahnhofsvideo zur Krebstherapie an und möchte vielleicht nicht, dass das morgen in meinen Google Ads Algorithmus irgendwie Ja. Drin ist, sodass die sind dann sehr sensibel dafür. Das ist dann sehr einfach und klar und die anderen suchen eigentlich einfach nur nach Videohosting.\n\nUnd da können wir dann hoffentlich mit dem USP so einen obendrauf setzen und sagen und dann kriegst Du sozusagen auch die die Ausspielung noch on top, aber es ist sozusagen super kleinteilig. Und dann gibt's wiederum auch natürlich irgendwie Agenturen, die ihren Kunden wiederum auch gerne Tool Stacks mit an die Hand geben, auch irgendwie gute Webseiten bauen zu können. Auch das ist der Fall, dass dass dass bei uns also 'n paar Agenturen, die mit denen wir mittlerweile zusammenarbeiten, bei denen wir jetzt in sozusagen der Liste der der Tools irgendwie auftauchen.\n\nSpeaker 1: Und bei den Beispielen, wo Du meintest so, hey, da kommen auch teilweise Enterprise, die irgendwie schon mit ihren Tools der kommen und sagen, hier diese 4, 5 Tools haben wir so. Das klang jetzt erst oder sind das dann Anwendungsfälle, wo die anderen Tools dann auch Privacy first sind oder oder wenn sie's nicht sind, warum dann euch als Plattform? Vielleicht kannst Du jetzt noch aus dem als Winkel noch mal\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau, selbst selbst wenn sozusagen die restlichen Tools, also selbst wenn Du noch 'n Cookie Banner auf deiner Seite hast, was wahrscheinlich in 90 Prozent der Fälle tatsächlich auch der Fall ist, ist es ja so, dass eben trotzdem so plus minus die Hälfte, ne, je nachdem, wie das Ding ablehnt. Und dann selbst wenn sie ablehnen, sind, ist zumindest der komplette Video Content da.\n\nSpeaker 0: Du kannst das Video nicht kaputt klicken sozusagen.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, Du also ne, das ist irgendwie möglichst viel von der Webexperience zu behalten, auch wenn die Leute\n\nSpeaker 1: Hab ich ja.\n\nSpeaker 2: Das Ding wegklicken. Und dann, Du hast natürlich das Thema, Du hast und da da strugglen wir auch mit, wir würden auch gerne besser die Ergebnisse unserer Ads messen können, mit denen wir irgendwie für unser Produkt werben. Können wir nicht, weil wir auf unserer Seite halt keine Cookies und kein kein Tracking kein Tracking setzen für für Google zum Beispiel jetzt, für die Search Ads. Müssen wir halt dann irgendwie ganz klassisch mit dem Parameter versuchen, den mit über den Kampagnennamen irgendwie durch durchzustecken. Muss man halt paar Abstriche machen?\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, das hab ich gar nicht verstanden, weil die Werbung, die ihr für eure Plattform, oder geht's jetzt nicht euer Produkt, sondern Privacy first ist bei euch, bei allem auch, wenn ihr sagt, ihr macht Werbung für euer Produkt, auch da schränkt ihr euch dementsprechend ein?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, auf unserer Seite, das wär ja irgendwie, also das wär irgendwie\n\nSpeaker 1: doof. Gesagt, ja.\n\nSpeaker 2: Wenn auf unserer Seite 'n Cookie Banner kommen würde, das also, das ist schon der Anspruch auch an uns selbst, dass dass, wenn Du auf unsere Seite kommst, es kein es kein Cookie Gun Banner braucht, unsere Seite anzugucken. Ja, so. Das ist ja, das ist\n\nSpeaker 1: ja was konsequent, aber es ist jetzt nicht, es ist nicht für mich komplett selbstverständlich, dass dem so ist, so. Also\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, also ich sag mal, rein aus Marketingsicht macht das ja schon Sinn, dass dein erster Kontakt mit Ignite ein consentfreier ist. Und Du halt siehst so, boah, so kann sich das Web anfühlen, so, ja? Weil also, weil das ist ja das, wo Du, das ist ja genau die Experience, die Du quasi verkaufen willst. Und wenn Du den selber nicht bereitstellen kannst, was ist denn dann dein dein Demo Case sozusagen,\n\nSpeaker 2: ne? Ja und aber und so, das ist, da da lehnen wir da mit Kompromissen. Und die Hoffnung ist, und wir wir kriegen's auch ganz gut hin, also ne, wir sind irgendwie ganz gut am Wachsen jetzt, reicht noch nicht fürn volles Gehalt für uns zweite Gründer, aber es es es geht in eine richtige Richtung, dass dass es irgendwie in der Mischkalkulation passt, auch wenn wir halt dann nicht so diesen Zugriff auf die auf die personenbezogenen Daten unserer Websitebesucher haben. Aber auch da darf man ja nicht vergessen, gilt ja dasselbe, auch diese ganzen Messpixel von den von den Ads Anbietern kannst Du ja auch nur einbinden, darfst Du auch nur laden, wenn Du den Consent von ihnen bekommst. Das heißt, auch da geht ja die die Hälfte der Daten flöten.\n\nSpeaker 0: Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 2: Also vielleicht fehlt uns dann nur noch 'n Viertel an anstatt alles.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, interessant, diese diese Reise an Infrastruktur, die ihr da die ihr da macht. Aber ich find's auf jeden Fall, ich mein, wir hatten ja schon auch, wenn wir von erzählt, ne, auf der Programmier konntest hast Du ja schon deinen Talk gehalten so. Und ich fand das dann durchaus eigentlich ziemlich inspirierend so, was was Du da was Du da darüber erzählt hast. Und auch wenn wenn es erst mal irgendwie sehr einschränkend klang, hab ich's Gefühl so, dass sie jetzt nicht groß jetzt eigentlich darunter leidet, mit diesem mit mit diesem Ansatz zu fahren. Und irgendwie find ich schon, dass es eher mich dazu inspiriert hat, zu sagen, ja, natürlich sollte man wirklich noch an mehr Stellen probieren, dass das so zu tun.\n\nUnd nicht für, ah ja, gut, so, wenn die Dämme schon mal gebrochen sind, ich hab das erste Tool drin, wofür ihr den Content Banner braucht, dann ist jetzt auch egal.\n\nSpeaker 0: Nach voll.\n\nSpeaker 1: Beim nächsten Tool muss er einfach nur die Liste und die Leute müssen zustimmen, so ungefähr. Ja, es ist Weil er auch grad wirklich, mir war's auch vorhin gar nicht wusste. Natürlich klar, nur weil ich 'n Content Banner hab, heißt ja nicht, dass es nicht trotzdem Sinn macht, einen Teil davon content frei zu haben, sodass ich eben eine Experience habe, auch für Leute, die's ablehnen, maximal gut zu haben. Ja.\n\nSpeaker 2: Also klar, ich find's natürlich als Nutzer am schönsten, wenn dieses Banner oder gar nicht wahrscheinlich, es ist ja wieder das Doofe wie dieses Präventionsparadoxon. Wenn dieses Banner nie auftaucht, dann hast Du vielleicht gar nicht gemerkt, wie sehr es sich gestört hat auf den Seiten, wo's da war, aber auf der anderen Seite ist natürlich schön, dieses Banner kommt gar nicht. Und auf der anderen Seite, wenn jetzt im Hintergrund dann bei dir als Websitebetreiber, dass Analytics nicht geladen wird, ist mir das als Nutzer ja total egal. Ja. Das heißt, ich klick nein und dann denk ich mir Ja.\n\nDas das hat ja keinen Einfluss auf meine Experience als als User, aber es hat ja schon Einfluss auf meine Experience, wenn die Videos nicht da sind. Ja. Und deswegen kommen wir jetzt erst mal rein eigentlich aus der User Experience Ecke und den Rest müssen andere machen. Wir versuchen da irgendwie unser Bestes zu geben. Auch wir sind wir sind ja dann auch nicht perfekt, ne.\n\nAlso irgendwie, wir versuchen alles irgendwie hinzustellen, versuchen irgendwie auch da die die richtigen Partner irgendwie für uns zu finden, aktuell irgendwie dann da mit AWS, aber whatever. Wir sind auch irgendwie mit mit Scalway und OVH im im Austausch. Wir haben unsere Datenbank aktuell dann bei OVH zum Beispiel liegen, damit also die Daten, die jetzt, wo die Daten unserer Admin User drin liegen, die wollen wir ja auch bei uns auch\n\nSpeaker 1: bei uns auch bei uns auch bei uns auch bei uns auch bei uns auch bei uns auch bei uns auch bei uns\n\nSpeaker 0: auch bei uns auch bei uns\n\nSpeaker 2: So und da betreiben wir zum Beispiel unsere Datenbank, dann liegen die Daten zumindest, wo Nutzerdaten liegen, auch mal E-Mail, Passwort, halt klassisch, ne, irgendwie, was man sonst auch so CMS nennen könnte. Das liegt dann da halt nicht bei 'nem Hyperscaler, aber auch Skateboard cooler auch cooler französischer Laden, auch Cloud. Ich find's zumindest da vielleicht auch in der Perspektive immer schön zu sehen, dass da jetzt mal 'n bisschen Dampf reinkommt in die in die europäische Cloud Bubble, würd ich mal sagen. Da haben wir halt einfach, weiß ich nicht, wahrscheinlich gut 10 Jahre Rückstand im im Sinne der Technologien, wenn man das so sieht.\n\nSpeaker 1: Wurde das ja eher dann, also das Beispiel zu OVA und Scalware und so, theoretisch hatten wir vorhin den Punkt so, nur weil ihr bei 'nem Hyperscaler seid, das wär ja jetzt ja erst mal noch kein Bruch mit eurem Ansatz, sondern wenn ihr eure, wenn ihr diese Daten dort liegen haben würdet so für die Kunden, die da die da draufgehen. Aber ist einfach dann eher so gemäß dem Gedanken, so, lasst das so mäßig machen, wie's geht und man halt vielleicht bei den Hyperskehern es dann eher nicht weiß und bei den europäischen, die den Fokus darauf legen, vielleicht sicherer ist, dass auch wirklich niemand an die Daten rangeht am Ende? Oder was ist da der Gedanke?\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau, also wir versuchen's einfach so gut, wie es uns möglich ist zu machen, ohne den Anspruch zu haben, eventuell nichts zu machen, weil wir's nicht perfekt hinbekommen. Ja. Ja. Das und ne, dann wieder auch das Thema Content Freiheit oder irgendwie Privacy first, wie für Content Freiheit ist das alles fein so. Und wir wir sind da auch, also ich bin großer Fan von der Qualität der Services, die ABS da zur Verfügung stellt.\n\nDas ist, weiß ich nicht, jetzt in der Zeit, wir haben noch nicht ein einziges Mal einen einzigen schiefgelaufenen API Call dahin gehabt. Also jetzt von unserer Seite ja vielleicht, aber die API hat noch nicht einmal irgendwie zicken gemacht. Irgendwie krass, wie robust und stabil das einfach ist, auch auf der, also mit dieser Skalierung finde ich mega cool und trotzdem ist es natürlich auch, also bin ich ja mit niemandem da irgendwie verheiratet und möchte irgendwie für für unser Produkt und für für unsere Kunden irgendwie das Beste draus machen können. Und wenn's da dann auch irgendwie dann aus Europa irgendwann mal an 'nem Punkt ist, wo man auf der Größenordnung coole Dinge machen kann, cool. Aber auch die stehen ja in 'nem ständigen Wettbewerb miteinander.\n\nAber ich weiß nicht, wie das bei euch ist, aber so diese Abwägung ich will ja als auch als als Techy, als Mensch, der gerne Dinge baut, eigentlich immer die besten Produkte nutzen, die irgendwie da sind. Und dann macht man vielleicht Kompromisse im einen oder anderen Bereich, weil man dafür zum Beispiel im Bereich irgendwie Datenlocation, irgendwie EU Regulierung 'n bisschen was besser machen kann. Dann gibt's vielleicht 'n Punkt, wo man denkt, das das funktioniert noch. Und irgendwann wird der Gap vielleicht zu groß ist, denke, ja, ich möchte jetzt auf diese Art der Funktionalität und Qualität des Produkts, möchte ich oder kann ich grade nicht verzichten, sind wir noch nicht so weit. Ich weiß nicht, wie das so bei bei euch ist, ob ihr so Themen habt.\n\nSpeaker 0: Also bei uns nicht, ich muss eher Fabi angucken, glaub ich.\n\nSpeaker 1: Nee, ich, eigentlich wenig. Ich find, weil ich fand noch mal irgendwie, als Du das grade ausgeführt hast, kam mir noch mal son bisschen dieser andere Gedanke so und das ist vielleicht aber auch, weil wir da auch zu wenig dann Oder andersrum gesagt, ich find dieses Paradigma so was wie hostet in EU, in Germany, die die ABA compliance so was. Ich find erst mal, dass eigentlich dieses Label, ich mein aber da denk ich jetzt auch schon zurück in meine Zeit, als ich bei der Deutschen Bank irgendwie gearbeitet hab und irgendwie das alles alles, was da irgendwie hostet in EU, gefühlt einfach immer so sich son bisschen verstaubt wirkt wie, ich arbeite beim Amt und es muss halt irgendwo laufen. Und das heißt einfach nur, es ist dann zwar DSGVO konform, irgendwie passt alles so, aber eigentlich sind einfach nur die die schlechteren Produkte so. Und ich mein, wenn man auch jetzt mit dir darüber spricht, wenn man sich irgendnightant sowas anguckt und so, Ich hab oder ich hab das Gefühl, bei einigen ist dieses verstaubte Image wahrscheinlich auch immer noch da, so also ist dieses Privacy first, wo Du meintest so, ja, das ist euer Unique Selling Point, aber es ist gar nicht so das, nachdem die Leute suchen so, aber es ist ja dann scheinbar etwas, was die Leute aber irgendwie brauchen und zumindest, ich sprach mich so, kann es teilweise sogar abschreckend wirken, weil Leute erst mal damit verbinden, okay, dann kann's ja kein gutes Produkt sein son bisschen, weißt Du?\n\nWenn's nicht, wenn es wenn es sich so diesem Label son bisschen gibt. Also habt ihr damit mit diesem Stigma irgendwie also zu kämpfen so?\n\nSpeaker 2: Also ich glaub grundsätzlich gibt's schon son bisschen son Stigma, dass alles, was jetzt irgendwie nicht Silicon Valley ist, vielleicht eher 'n bisschen biederer und angestaubter vielleicht so daherkommen kann. Wobei sich das, glaub ich, auch so in den letzten 5 bis 10 Jahren schon irgendwie geändert hat, dass es auch heuer richtig coole SARS Tools aus aus Europa irgendwie gibt mit mit hochwertigen Nutzeroberflächen. Und es gibt aber auch eine Menge richtig angestaubter Lösungen, so im Enterprise Videobereich, wo Du denkst, oh Gottes Willen. So, das, also gar nicht mal, die liefern auch Videos aus, aber die Oberflächen und so ist dann alles sehr angestaubt.\n\nSpeaker 1: Und da\n\nSpeaker 2: war dann auch unser Anspruch zu sagen, nee, das muss schon auch irgendwie 'n bisschen Spaß machen in der Bedienung, muss 'n bisschen schnell, snappy, moderne halt moderne Oberfläche haben. Und dieses Thema ja, die die unsere Kunden suchen gar nicht so richtig nach dir direkt nach dem Konsenthema, was denen irgendwie wahrscheinlich viel mehr am Herzen liegt, ist einfach irgendwie möglichst einfach schnell 'n Video auf die Website zu bekommen und wenn möglich an alle, die auf die Website gehen, ja. Aber wenn man das gut hinkriegt, dann hat man, glaub ich, schon viel gewonnen. Und dann kämpft man sicherlich son bisschen mit dem Gedanken der Nutzer, ja, ist es ist es eine 20 Prozent schlechtere Lösung, weil sie aus Europa ist?\n\nSpeaker 0: Ich muss sagen, mein mein oder die überraschende Erkenntnis aus dem Gespräch ist eigentlich, dass es bei dir jetzt gar nicht so klang, als ob das contentfreie Gestalten der Infrastruktur und der Plattform sone Challenge gewesen wär. Was ja im Umkehrschluss son bisschen bedeutet, dass alle anderen, die das nicht machen, das sehr bewusst so nicht machen. Also ne, ich glaube, man ist so darauf konditioniert als Benutzer, diese ganzen Cookie- und Content Banner so als gegeben hinzunehmen. Und das müssen die halt machen, weil die brauchen das und die komischen Vorschriften und so, ja. Aber bei dir ist ja ziemlich klar rausgekommen, nö, wenn man halt son bisschen von vornherein drüber nachdenkt so, ja, dann begern no offense, aber dann ist es halt nicht Rocket sign, so das.\n\nMan man kann das machen. Absolut. Und die Challenge hinter dem Produkt ist viel mehr, das den den Kunden zu erklären und zu sagen, was da irgendwie das Alleinstellungsmerkmal ist und so was, ja, als eine technische Challenge.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, absolut. Also auf dem Level glaub ich schon. Ich glaub, was tatsächlich nicht so leicht zu replizieren ist, ist dieses nächste Level dann, diese komplette Trennung der Kunden, weil da wirklich superviel auf Infrastrukturebene passiert\n\nSpeaker 0: und Aber das ist ja für euch als Plattformproblem. Genau. Wenn ich jetzt für mich überlege, ich will Ach ja, okay.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, ja,\n\nSpeaker 0: ein Appine Tool, ein Susting, ein irgendwas irgendwie so so aufbauen, dann dann müsst das ja eigentlich viel oder dann überrascht es mich nach dem Gespräch jetzt hier heute, dass nicht viel mehr Leute irgendwie darüber nachdenken, wie kriege ich das denn vielleicht konstantfrei hin?\n\nSpeaker 2: Einhundert Prozent, ja. Es ist am Ende ist es ja wenig Rocket Science. Man muss nur eigentlich von Anfang an über nachdenken, wie man's hinstellt. Und vielleicht ist das auch son bisschen die dass das Problem der der Legacy Plattformen, sag ich mal, dass die vielleicht auch schon so lange da sind, dass als die entstanden sind, der ganze fundamentale Tech Stack, den die haben, wie das wirklich vom vom Grundprinzip von der Infrastruktur, bei denen funktioniert, nicht darauf ausgelegt ist, dass es dass es ohne auskommt. Ich weiß es nicht.\n\nEs\n\nSpeaker 1: Aber hast Du dich auch, also ich mein, ich find ja interessant, dass Du ja den, ich sag zum ersten Mal den den Jan angesprochen, ich nicht an, also ja, ich mein den Jan Gregor m Getriebe. Hast Du nicht vorhin damit ja auch selbst darauf schon son bisschen die Antwort gegeben, warum's am Ende auch nicht jeder macht so? Ich mein, Du hast den anderen Jan da bisschen dafür verwirrt zu kritisieren, ja mit 9 Euro, wer zahlt denn 9 Euro? Ich kann's doch überall auch umsonst haben, dass es am Ende auch sone Businessmodellfrage einfach son bisschen ist. Also ich mein, natürlich habt ihr, ja, hast Du dann grade auch erzählt so die Schwierigkeiten, na ja, am Ende so irgendwie dann User Acquisition dafür zu machen und genau zu sehen, wie irgendwas funktioniert und so.\n\nMan hat ja schon Schwierigkeiten daran, wenn wir jetzt einfach nur das Game Beispiel nimmst, so. Wenn ich nicht tracken könnte, sozusagen meine UA Kampagnen gucken könnte, welcher User kamen da rein oder welche Kampagne kamen da rein, wie viel Geld haben wir am Ende verdient, dann funktioniert unser gesamtes Businessmodell einfach 0 Prozent. So, wenn wir das nicht könnten, dann brauch ich das gar nicht machen. Ich glaub, da draußen gibt's halt so Und gibt ja auch einige Businessmodelle, die einfach darauf basieren, sodass es halt eben eben nicht funktioniert, dass es für jeder 'n Service dann am Ende irgendwie bezahlt wird. Deswegen glaub ich, ist es so, ist es halt eine Nische, die super-, supersinn macht und ich's auch richtig, richtig gut finde.\n\nAber ja auch auch da die Frage ist so, gib dein Businessmodell es überhaupt her, dass Du dieses Ganze so in allem, überall irgendwie umsetzen willst? Und ist es wirklich nur Faulheit oder an manchen Stellen auch einfach der grundlegende im Business Modell, sich dem zu unterwerfen?\n\nSpeaker 0: Also ich bin voll bei dir zu sagen, es gibt bestimmt Sachen, da macht das keinen Sinn ohne,\n\nSpeaker 1: ja.\n\nSpeaker 0: Also ich glaub, man man muss nicht versuchen, auf Biegen und Brechen 'n Social Network zu bauen, ohne personenbezogene Daten, so, ja. Und auch alle unsere Spiele haben ja diesen sozialen Aspekt, der sie da so befeuert, ja. Also ich glaub, da macht es keinen Sinn, dagegen zu arbeiten oder so, ja. Aber trotzdem ist es, glaub ich, legitim und sinnvoll, sich zu hinterfragen, ob das wirklich pauschal so für alle Produkte irgendwie gelten muss, ja. Wenn ich mich jetzt Ja, das\n\nSpeaker 1: ist wahr.\n\nSpeaker 0: Weiß nicht, bei meinem Podcast Player irgendwie anmelde. Ja, also nicht mal bei meiner Podcasthosting Plattform, sondern nur mein Player, der meine ganzen Subscriptions verwaltet und wo ich irgendwie auf abspielen drücken kann. Und der synkt vielleicht meine Subscription zwischen meinen Geräten hinterher so. Warum warum braucht der 'n Content Banner? So, ja.\n\nDas kann man ja vielleicht einfach mal so so hinterfragen. Und ich glaub schon, dass wir halt zu abgestumpft sind und das irgendwie so so hinnehmen und deshalb vielleicht auch gar nicht der Druck da ist bei vielen zu überlegen, ne, nehmen mir User das jetzt übel oder oder nicht oder so? Aber nachdem, was wir heute gehört haben, glaub ich schon, dass das öfter eigentlich der Fall sein könnte, als es heutzutage ist.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, das unterschreibe ich zu 100 Prozent auf jeden Fall. Ja. Dass sehr viel mehr Leute tun könnten, als sie aktuell tun.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja. Und vielleicht auch da, es gibt ja auch Modelle und Cases, wo es, wo ich ja auch möchte, dass ich für den Service, den ich da vielleicht in Anspruch nehme, 'n Spiel ist ja auch irgendwie 'n Service, den ich dann genieße, weil ich da meinen Spaß hab. Und wenn ich mit anderen zusammenspielen, sag ich, ja wunderbar, dafür leg ich mir 'n Account an, da heißt mein Username, meine E-Mail-Adresse und Passwort, whatever. Ja. Und das schick ich dann an euch, weil ihr mein Game Provider da seid und dann ist das cool, dann ist das auch der Deal.\n\nDas geht dann eher weiter, was ist dann, also was was passiert dann aber ohne mein vielleicht mein Zutun mit meinen Daten im Hintergrund? Und da ist ja eigentlich sozusagen das, ne, EU Regulation oder man kann's vielleicht auch Werte sagen, dass man mitbestimmen darf darüber, was mit meinen eigenen personenbezogenen Daten passiert, zumindest ohne dass ich sonst eventuell wissen würde, eine feine Sache. Aber in dem Fall zum Beispiel ist es ja Teil auch des der Services und damit der Qualität und dann ist das dann ist das in Ordnung. Und auf der anderen Seite, zum Beispiel bei uns, wir richten uns ja jetzt rein auch an an Unternehmen, sag ich mal. Egal wie klein, das können Einzelselbständige, was weiß ich, irgendwelche Web Freelancer sein, aber auch halt große Läden.\n\nDie haben ja eigentlich immer irgendein Interesse, was sie ihr Produkt verkaufen wollen oder ihre Leistung oder ihr WhatsAppever. Und die haben ja eigentlich überhaupt nix damit am Hut, ob jetzt das, also das mit den Daten, deren Besucher jetzt irgendwie noch, dass Youtube da noch was von hat.\n\nSpeaker 1: Also das Ja. Also ich geh aber auf jeden Fall mit und das wär ja auch wünschenswert wirklich, wenn wir einfach einige Seiten hätten, wo wir diese leidigen Banner nicht mehr haben müssten. Das wär wirklich eine Traumveranstaltung. Vor allem ist es ja auch meistens ist die UX von diesen Bannern, die häufig schon auf Seiten waren, einfach so ich daran gehindert war, irgendwas zu machen auf der Mobile View, weil der weil ich's Banner nicht wegbekommen hab, so. Also so schlechte Banner gehören ja auch dazu.\n\nDas sind, vielleicht, die am wenigsten getesteten Features auf der Seite, das ist das erste, mit dem man in Kontakt kommt.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, wobei das Lustige auch ist, dass ja auch da drum rum auch eine komplette Industrie entstanden ist, diese Content Management Plattform. Es ist\n\nSpeaker 1: und das ist die Hölle, da mitzuarbeiten. Es ist die Hölle. Also das ist, glaub ich, eine so NebenDP, also alles, was mit Datenschutz zu tun hat und mit dem ich mich beschäftigen muss in meinem Entwickleralltag, ist wirklich das Schlimmste überhaupt, überhaupt zu verstehen, was diese Plattform machen und in welchen Ländern, was irgendwie wie funktioniert und wo's ob in ist, wo's ob out ist so, wie man mit den verschiedenen, wie die eigentlich die Information bekommen, wo ich's explizit sitzen muss, wer sich's direkt aus irgendwie dem TFA holt und so.\n\nSpeaker 0: Auch wenn ich das gerne als Schlusswort stehen lassen wollen würde, dass Content Management Provider irgendwie die reine Hölle sind, haben wir noch unsere klassische Abschlussfrage, die wir jetzt Jan auch noch stellen müssen, nämlich, welche Frage haben wir dir nicht gestellt? Über welches Thema wolltest Du unbedingt sprechen und ärgerst dich grade, dass weder Fabi noch richtig danach gefragt haben? Boah.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ah ja, wir sind da einmal wirklich durch alles irgendwie durchgeritten. Ich wüsste auf meiner Liste, also auf meiner Liste, wie die sieht nicht vorhanden ist.\n\nSpeaker 1: Wie wir zumindest sehen,\n\nSpeaker 0: ihr nicht.\n\nSpeaker 1: Aber ja, ich kenn wirklich auf deine Liste da. Er hat nichts abgehakt.\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau, meine meine Agenda, die mir meinen PR Berater mitgegeben hat. Nein.\n\nSpeaker 0: Nee, Ich glaub,\n\nSpeaker 2: wir sind tatsächlich einmal durch durch alles irgendwie irgendwie durchgerast. So vor allem ja, das Thema, was mir irgendwie bisschen aufm Herzen liegt, ist ist gar nicht mal rein unser Produkt, was mir sehr am Herzen liegt, aber dieses mal zu challengen, ob das ob's nicht besser geht mit der mit der Webexperience, grade irgendwie trotz trotz GDPA, halt trotz DSGVO, weil meistens tut's das. Ich fänd's schön, einfach wieder auf mehr Webseiten zu sein, wo kein kein Banner irgendwie Pflicht ist.\n\nSpeaker 1: Herr Kuhmilch, wenn ich das so ein checkt doch mal irgendwas aus würd sagen, wir machen das Ganze auch noch mal mit der Programmierbarseite. Und übrigens, ich hab 'n paar Jahre geguckt, ich hab übrigens keinen Banner bei uns gesehen. Also ich, weil wir hab's\n\nSpeaker 0: So, ich hab ich hab doch\n\nSpeaker 1: schon mal was gesehen. Ja, also wir machen das in meinem Nachgang so, also genau. Bevor wir meine Seite Hoffentlich\n\nSpeaker 0: bevor wir die Folge veröffentlichen, kriegen wir noch Ärger. Genau so wie Du mit der Website von deiner Frau.\n\nSpeaker 1: Genau, ja. Also gebt uns da gerne Feedback, wenn ihr, egal auf welcher Homepage von uns, sie mit uns zu tun oder was findet, Schwerzt uns nicht an, schickt uns eine Mail. Wir sind sehr offen dafür, Dinge zu verändern, wenn ihr Dinge findet. So bitte, ein Podcast at Programmier Punkt bar.\n\nSpeaker 0: Wunderbar. Dann bleibt uns nur noch 1 am Ende, nämlich Die. Nein, Stimmt. Mehrere und ein Day. Es ist nicht ein Pick über mehrere Immer das Mathe übrigens auch immer\n\nSpeaker 1: im Arbeitskontext falsch. Jedes Mal, wenn wir über einen Point of Sale reden\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, es ist Points of Sale.\n\nSpeaker 1: Genau, wir sagen mal Point of Sales, ja.\n\nSpeaker 0: Das ist auch richtig, aber Du hast halt nur einen.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, genau.\n\nSpeaker 0: Also vielleicht dann damit mehr Verkäufer. Na ja.\n\nSpeaker 1: Wie auch immer. Also irgendwas in der Mehrzahl und in diesem Fall geht's einen oder mehrere Pick of Picks of the day.\n\nSpeaker 0: Exactly. Du hast gesagt, Du hast in den nächsten 60 Minuten dir was ausgesucht. Was hat Ich\n\nSpeaker 1: hatte gleich im Vorhinein was, ein Tool über den, das mit dem wir beide auch drüber diskutiert haben, asynchron im Chat vorhin. Und zwar ist das Ganze, wenn ich mit LLMs interagiere und nicht mehr oder warst Du gar nicht Teil\n\nSpeaker 0: der Confritte? Ich überleg grad.\n\nSpeaker 1: Auf jeden Fall ist unser aller Interaktion mit LLMs wahrscheinlich nur, geht nur nach oben, was die Zeit angeht. Und vieles davon hab ich Ah,\n\nSpeaker 0: ich war ja typisch, sondern\n\nSpeaker 1: bei uns hat's viele wirklich mit Leute zugebracht zu sagen, zumindest wenn ich jetzt nicht im im Office sitze, wo alle meine Kollegen neben dran sitzen, zumindest im Homeoffice. Das hab\n\nSpeaker 0: ich mir nämlich überlegt, wie ihr alle oben in der Station sitzt und parallel mit euren Rechnern arbeitet.\n\nSpeaker 1: Genau. Und wir laden mit unseren Rechnern, meistens noch nicht, wenn Arbeitskollegen neben dran sitzen, aber vielleicht wird sich auch das verändern. Und dafür sind zumindest so der zumindest der lokale Support jetzt einfach auf unsere Betriebssystem noch nicht so perfekt, dass wir dafür externe Tools nutzen. Und 1, was ich oder viele bei uns eine Firma nutzen, gut finden, ist Whisperflow. Wirklich, was es extrem gut macht, mit 'nem einfachen Shortcut überall einfach reinsprechen zu können, sehr gut das transkribiert zu bekommen oder möchte auch zusammengefasst zu bekommen.\n\nWo ich jetzt echt sagen muss, also wenn ich daheimsitze, ich schreibe nichts mehr, wenn ich mit meinem LLM interagiere und auch nicht mehr, wenn ich Mails verfasse oder ähnlich, sondern der erste wird per Voice gemacht so und das hat noch gar nicht so lang. Und Whisper Flow ist einfach 'n cooles Tool, gibt auch einige andere da draußen, aber das war jetzt das, was in der, also ich hab's noch in der Free Variante, aber Kostenpunkt, glaub ich, 12 Euro im Monat sind. Weiß gar nicht, was genau die Grenze ist, da bauen man da rein dadrin\n\nSpeaker 0: 2000 Wörter die Woche.\n\nSpeaker 1: 2000 Wörter die Woche. Also ich werde sehr schnell dadran stoßen. Ich glaub auch. Aber ich glaube wirklich, spart mir echt einiges einiges an Zeit. Ich finde auch, wenn in dem Set-up Flow find ich ganz interessant, da vergleichen sie dann auch, wie schnell man redet und wie schnell man tippt.\n\nDann kann man son bisschen mal kurz antippen, wie schnell man denn selbst tippt, ob man wirklich so schnell ist, wie man glaubt. Macht auf jeden Fall Spaß. Dieser Onboarding Flow ist ganz cool. Coole App. Whisper Flow.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ich bin gespannt, wenn ihr das jetzt alle benutzt. Ich hab's ja noch nicht. Und das ist ja so aufgekommen, wie Du gesagt hast in diesem LRM Kontext. Ich frag mich wirklich, also ja, ich glaub, man redet mehr und gibt mehr Kontext mit, als man tippen würde, Ja. Weil man einfach son bisschen tippfaul ist und beim Reden fällt's einem leichter.\n\nIch bin noch nicht überzeugt, ob das auch wirklich technisch sinnvoller ist, weil Du natürlich auch einfach mehr reinbrabelst so, ne. Wenn Du 'n prompt tippst, bist Du sehr, also tippst Du ja sehr bewusst und überlegst dir, was kommt da rein und was nicht. Und dementsprechend, weiß nicht, trägt das vielleicht was zur Promptqualität bei oder eben auch nicht? Ja, gespannt.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ich glaub, die ist einfach, ich mein, die ist ja jetzt schon weniger wichtig. Es wird immer weniger wichtig sein, dass Du's perfekt strukturierst. Also ich mein, wir haben schon damals in der Anfangszeit so dieses Ding von wird irgendwie mal 'n Ding sein. Schon damals war ja schon immer meine These so, nee, wird's nicht. Also wird immer weniger 'n Ding sein so.\n\nDass Du genau definierst, wie dein ist, wird einfach später irgendwann komplett egal sein, da kannst Du so viel Fehler reinhauen, wie Du willst. Und auch das ist das schon, was wir ehrlicherweise jetzt sehen bei den Anwendungsfällen, wie wir's tagtäglich nutzen, lieber mehr Kontext als irgendwie ganz genau ausformuliert. Es geht ja jetzt nicht diesen so reproducible prompt, der jetzt irgendwie in deiner in deinem Agent irgendwie, den Du an die Endkunden gibst, dann da immer reproduzierbar dasselbe Ergebnis, die man will, sondern eigentlich, Du willst damit interagieren, Du willst deine Features erklären. Da ist immer lieber mehr Kontext, als dir genau zu überlegen, was Du da reinschreibst.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, fair. Jan, was hast Du dabei?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ich find erstens Whisperflow auch gut, find ich feine App. Und ich hatte erst noch was anderes im Kopf, aber in dem Kontext Whisperflow, wo Du's grade saß, von der Extension, ohne die ich mittlerweile überhaupt nicht mehr auskomme, ist Language Tool. Weiß nicht, wer das kennt? Nee. Aber Language Tool ist, weiß ich nicht, so vielleicht eine eher eine Alternative zu Grammerly oder so was.\n\nIst, glaub ich, sogar 'n deutsches Tool. Mhm. Als Browserextension oder auch halt generell im Betriebssystem. Mittlerweile auch irgendwie KI supportet mit Formulierungsvorschlägen. Auf jeden Fall ohne dieses Tool kriege ich gefühlt keinen keinen geraden Satz mehr raus.\n\nDas ist vor allem auch mit deutscher Grammatik gut, bin ich großer Fan von.\n\nSpeaker 0: Bin ich concent frei. Direkt auf der Seite, direkt mit 'nem mit 'nem Contentblog.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ich bin mir gar nicht aufmachen, hab ich schon mal weggeguckt, ich hab installiert, die Cro Extension ist schon drin.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ich glaube, so\n\nSpeaker 1: weg mit den Menschen ist Deutsch, gar nicht auf der Homepage.\n\nSpeaker 2: Nee, finde ich finde ich mega. Ich bin da, glaube ich, schon seit 6, 7 Jahren tatsächlich zahlender Kunde sogar und das ganze KI Kram kam logischerweise später. Aber das ist auch eine Extension, ohne die ich nicht mehr möchte. Cool.\n\nSpeaker 1: Wird jetzt ausprobiert, ist schon drin.\n\nSpeaker 0: Direkt konzentretisch.\n\nSpeaker 1: Willst Du noch dein andere, die war ja jetzt son bisschen auf so das dir eingefallen. Du kannst auch gerne Also\n\nSpeaker 2: ja, der mein anderer Genau. Days in dem Fall war es eigentlich gestern, denn ja noch spät im ICE unterwegs, ist Abendessen früh entgangen gegangen und da freu ich mich dann, dass es so leckeres Chili im Bahnbistro der Deutschen Bahn gibt. Das ist immer, kann man kann man machen, sowohl Con- als auch Sinkarne ist es\n\nSpeaker 0: Was so beide probiert?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, je nachdem, was halt irgendwie grade so der Mut des Tages ist.\n\nSpeaker 1: An der Stelle würd ich sagen, gehen auch Grüße raus an den Dennis, wenn man nämlich im Vorgespräch darüber redet, dass so eigentlich nur der Dennis macht mit Fahrradfahren oder also diese diese Alltagsdinge so. Oder mittlerweile abgewöhnt.\n\nSpeaker 0: Dann bin ich gespannt, was Du jetzt zu meinem gleich sagst. Oh, ich\n\nSpeaker 1: bin ja auch gespannt.\n\nSpeaker 0: Mein Pick kommt nämlich 2 Jahre zu spät. Ja. Und zwar hab ich hier diese Apple Watch, die hab ich seit ziemlich genau Oh\n\nSpeaker 1: Gott, ja.\n\nSpeaker 0: 2 Jahren.\n\nSpeaker 1: Irgendwas mit Apple Watch.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja. Und es ist ja sone Apple Watch Ultra und die gibt's ja nur mit LTE. So, aber ich war immer sehr geizig, weil ich hab ja keinen extra Handyvertrag jetzt nur für meine Uhr oder so, fand ich vollkommen schwachsinnig. Bis jetzt 'n Handyvertrag bekommen hab, wo SIM Karten bis zum Zuwerfen dabei war. Und der hatte keinen son SIM Cut dazu, da hab ich bei meinem Anbieter angerufen und hab gesagt, hey, kann ich da eine E-Sim haben für meine Uhr, weil diese ganzen physischen SIM Karten, die ihr mir geschickt habt, die brauch ich irgendwie alle gar nicht.\n\nUnd dann haben die das gemacht. Und jetzt hab ich seit 2 Wochen oder so, also Internet immer auf die Uhr. Und da ist ja abgefahren, wie krass das ist. Also Du Du guckst mich grade an wie son Auto oder so. Ja, wahrscheinlich, weil Du das noch nie gehabt hast, oder?\n\nSpeaker 1: Einfach Apple Watches braucht doch niemand. Ist doch 'n Quatsch. Hast Du\n\nSpeaker 2: nicht hast Du nicht 'n Apple Watches. Was\n\nSpeaker 0: hast 'n für 'n Uhr?\n\nSpeaker 1: Gar keine.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ach so, nee, weil Dennis hat Dennis hat eine Apple Watch, ne?\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, also jedes Mal, wenn, ja.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, aber also Anyway, ich guck Anyway, ja. Ja, guck mich ruhig noch 'n bisschen böse an dabei. Aber es ist schon son noch mal son sehr anderes Gerät, wenn Du's auf einmal quasi benutzen kannst, wirklich dein Handy irgendwie zu Hause zu lassen, weil Du genau weißt, Du kannst irgendwie angerufen werden. Du kannst irgendwie selber jemanden anrufen, wenn was passiert. Du kannst deine Musik unterwegs da mit streamen, ohne dir irgendwie Gedanken darüber machen zu müssen, was offline oder so.\n\nEs ist schon noch mal sehr, sehr, sehr viel anders. Ich würde niemals dafür extra Geld ausgeben, aber wenn's halt irgendwie im Vertrag mit Trainingsman das nehmen kann. Es ist echt 'n cooles Feature, deshalb 2 Jahre zu spät jetzt meine Uhr auch mit LTE, was schon immer eingebaut war und jetzt endlich mal benutzt wird. Mein Modem freut sich grade son bisschen. Willst Du noch 'n bisschen renten, Fabi?\n\nDann hau jetzt ruhig raus.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, wir sind schon super weit in der Folge. Ich denk, also jetzt ist wirklich, ich mein, wie oft hast Du denn dein Handy jetzt seitdem daheimgelassen?\n\nSpeaker 0: Schon öfter mal, welches spazieren geht draußen bei uns oder so, ja.\n\nSpeaker 2: Dann ist es wichtig, dass man dann auf jeden Fall immer noch Internet Also\n\nSpeaker 1: allein bin ich, ist\n\nSpeaker 0: Irgendwo müssen ja die Podcasts herkommen, also bitte.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, also wirklich so einfach noch mehr. Man wird ja nicht schon häufig genug von seinen Handys abgelenkt, dann gerne auch noch eine Uhr, die mir andauern, so, wo ich sofort drauf gucken kann, wenn's irgendwas kommt.\n\nSpeaker 2: Das Smartphone Detox Light.\n\nSpeaker 1: Oh, es ist ein grauenhaftes Produkt, wirklich. Es ist\n\nSpeaker 0: Ist das Nikotinpflaster des Smartphones Ressourcen? Also wirklich einfach.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, in kleiner Dosis.\n\nSpeaker 1: Alle Smartwatches in die Tonne drücken und die Welt ist eine bessere, wirklich.\n\nSpeaker 2: Das kann ich jetzt nicht so zustimmen. Ich bin ich bin Garmin Nutzer. Mit 'nem\n\nSpeaker 1: sympathischere Smartwatch. Ach komm. Wirklich.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ist ja auch wirklich. Wir sind hier fertig.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, das, wir können gerne mal eine separate Folge über, ich mach einfach sone eigene Folge, wo ich einfach nur über die Apple Watch abhitle, so. Ist natürlich die bestperformste Folge ever, wirklich. Ich einfach so, 30 Minuten lang sag ich einfach nur, was ich an der Apple Watch scheiße finde.\n\nSpeaker 0: Okay, also wenn Du das schaffst? Ich ich schieb denen den Feed.\n\nSpeaker 1: Also mein Apple Watch Rant.\n\nSpeaker 2: So eine Einzelepisode, nur Du.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, okay, ist ja.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ihr könnt jetzt an Podcast at Programmier eine E-Mail schreiben, wenn ihr wollt, das Fabi 30 Minuten.\n\nSpeaker 1: Aber eigentlich finde ich's gut, wenn ich will eigentlich nicht keinen Monolog, ich würd gern Monolog, wo ihr aber auch zuhören müsst, aber ihr dürft nicht darauf reagieren, einfach nur so, jetzt mal so, also ihr dürft nur Sachen, sag ich, das stimmt doch gar nicht so, aber ihr dürft nicht wirklich drauf\n\nSpeaker 0: Also Dennis, Dave und ich sitzen\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja. Das ist jetzt auch 'n neues Ja. So was. Ja.\n\nSpeaker 0: Okay, also wie gesagt, schreibt\n\nSpeaker 1: mir Macht ihr damit über eigenes Format. Ich such mal einfach nur kleine Features raus und es geht nur so so so Tipp jetzt so. 5 Minuten lang rant ich wieder über 'n anderes Feature von der Applewatch.\n\nSpeaker 0: Einfach so Fabis Dampfablass 5 Minuten?\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, das wär toll. Ja. Also sag, gib mal Feedback dazu, wie Du's finden würde, das Format so. Apple Watch. Es ist wohl Es gibt\n\nSpeaker 2: schon viel zu wenig Hass noch.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, Du machst ja das Web besser mit Privacy first. Ich mach's wieder 'n bisschen schlechter. Aber ohne, das kriegt ihr ohne Cookie, ne, ohne Cookie Banner könnt ihr den renturn.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ah, phänomenal. Wunderbar. Dann danke Jan, dass Du heute da warst\n\nSpeaker 1: und Du die\n\nSpeaker 0: Zeit genommen hast. Fabi, schön Lust, wie die das war da. Ich find auch schön, dass\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja. Ja, ja.\n\nSpeaker 0: Wir haben wir haben lange kein Deep Dive mehr zusammen gemacht, Fabi. Ja, ja, ja. Ich frag, ich weiß auch gar nicht warum.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ich weiß auch nicht warum, war doch eigentlich supersympathisch. Ja.\n\nSpeaker 0: Wunderbar. Dann hören wir uns spätestens nächste Woche wieder zur nächsten Podcastfolge.\n\nSpeaker 1: So sieht's aus. Macht's gut. Bis deine.\n\nSpeaker 0: Tschau. Tschau.",[43625,43632,43635,43640,43645,43652,43659,43668,43672,43679,43688,43693,43698,43702,43711,43716,43721,43725,43736,43749,43754,43766,43779,43792,43805,43818,43829,43840,43851,43864,43870,43882,43886,43890,43900,43912,43922,43929,43941,43946,43956,43969,43982,43989,44002,44010,44014,44017,44026,44030,44041,44046,44053,44058,44067,44072,44083,44088,44091,44102,44115,44128,44138,44150,44162,44174,44184,44190,44199,44212,44224,44235,44246,44259,44272,44283,44292,44305,44311,44316,44320,44325,44333,44342,44352,44365,44369,44375,44383,44387,44391,44398,44411,44422,44431,44435,44442,44454,44466,44472,44477,44488,44493,44504,44512,44520,44529,44533,44545,44557,44570,44583,44588,44592,44605,44609,44618,44630,44641,44653,44662,44670,44682,44686,44690,44699,44707,44716,44720,44730,44735,44741,44750,44755,44759,44767,44771,44784,44791,44796,44806,44810,44820,44831,44837,44844,44857,44869,44876,44887,44891,44895,44907,44916,44920,44924,44935,44941,44945,44957,44963,44967,44973,44977,44988,45000,45012,45016,45022,45034,45047,45059,45065,45077,45090,45102,45110,45120,45132,45140,45148,45155,45159,45163,45167,45180,45185,45189,45194,45202,45207,45217,45229,45232,45236,45248,45253,45257,45266,45277,45288,45296,45300,45304,45315,45323,45333,45346,45359,45363,45376,45382,45392,45396,45407,45420,45427,45436,45443,45447,45452,45464,45467,45479,45491,45497,45501,45504,45516,45520,45532,45541,45548,45558,45570,45577,45589,45593,45600,45608,45616,45623,45627,45631,45637,45642,45646,45654,45662,45666,45674,45680,45690,45701,45707,45711,45715,45719,45723,45729,45735,45743,45750,45756,45762,45766,45772,45776,45787,45796,45800,45811,45823,45835,45845,45857,45868,45874,45886,45897,45901,45907,45911,45915,45919,45928,45932,45936,45942,45950,45954,45958,45964,45970,45974,45981,45985,45989,45993,46004,46016,46024,46029,46033,46037,46041,46045,46057,46070,46074,46080,46084,46088,46092,46096,46102,46106,46111,46117,46121,46125,46134,46141,46147,46155,46161,46165,46169,46173,46177,46181,46185,46193,46197,46205,46209,46220,46224,46232,46239,46243,46251,46256,46264,46269,46274,46282],{"sentences":43626,"speaker":181,"num_words":43631,"start":178,"end":310},[43627,43629],{"text":43628,"start":178,"end":229},"Hallo und herzlich willkommen zu einem neuen Deep Dive hier in der Programmierbar.",{"text":43630,"start":234,"end":310},"Ich hör für euch im Studio wie immer der Jan, Gregor, im Getriebe, muss man vielleicht dieses Mal dazu sagen.",33,{"sentences":43633,"speaker":160,"num_words":160,"start":310,"end":315},[43634],{"text":318,"start":310,"end":315},{"sentences":43636,"speaker":181,"num_words":43639,"start":315,"end":337},[43637],{"text":43638,"start":315,"end":337},"Weil mit mir im Studio ist",6,{"sentences":43641,"speaker":160,"num_words":43644,"start":339,"end":396},[43642],{"text":43643,"start":339,"end":396},"Der Fabi Fink, der auf jeden Fall noch nicht für Verwirrung sorgt, was die Namen angeht.",16,{"sentences":43646,"speaker":181,"num_words":43651,"start":400,"end":438},[43647,43649],{"text":43648,"start":400,"end":411},"Und noch ein Jan.",{"text":43650,"start":411,"end":438},"Hallo Jan, schön, dass Du da bist.",11,{"sentences":43653,"speaker":444,"num_words":43658,"start":438,"end":463},[43654,43656],{"text":43655,"start":438,"end":449},"Korrekt, danke.",{"text":43657,"start":449,"end":463},"Ich bin der zweite Jan.",7,{"sentences":43660,"speaker":181,"num_words":43667,"start":465,"end":656},[43661,43663,43665],{"text":43662,"start":465,"end":502},"Jan, Du bist heute bei uns, weil wir über Privacy sprechen wollen.",{"text":43664,"start":506,"end":570},"Und weil Fabio und ich mit Privatsphäre nicht so viel am Hut haben, haben wir gedacht, wir laden dich dazu ein.",{"text":43666,"start":573,"end":656},"Du hast ja schon auf der Programmiercon letztes Jahr, ist noch kein Jahr her, aber trotzdem irgendwie letztes Jahr, es klingt irgendwie so lange her.",58,{"sentences":43669,"speaker":160,"num_words":43658,"start":656,"end":677},[43670],{"text":43671,"start":656,"end":677},"Auf der auf der größten Programmiercon ever?",{"sentences":43673,"speaker":181,"num_words":43678,"start":677,"end":802},[43674,43676],{"text":43675,"start":677,"end":738},"Auf der größten Programmiercon, die es bis dato gab, hast Du einen Talk erhalten über Privacy first infrastructure.",{"text":43677,"start":742,"end":802},"Und der Satz, der mir so vom Anfang hängen geblieben ist, ist, das Web nervt und das ist schade.",37,{"sentences":43680,"speaker":444,"num_words":43687,"start":805,"end":1067},[43681,43683,43685],{"text":43682,"start":805,"end":818},"Ja, ist so, oder?",{"text":43684,"start":821,"end":835},"Aber warum ist das so?",{"text":43686,"start":839,"end":1067},"Gut, also da muss man, da gibt's wahrscheinlich viele Gründe für, aber es ist eigentlich so, weil grade bei uns hier in irgendwie Europa im Netz einem einfach überall Hürden in den Weg gelegt werden, bevor man irgendwie mal 'n Content sehen kann mit Cookie Bannern, mit Einwilligung, die man geben muss, mit Sperenzchen, die man irgendwie rum navigieren muss als User, irgendwie zu 'nem schicken Content zu kommen.",78,{"sentences":43689,"speaker":181,"num_words":43692,"start":1070,"end":1150},[43690],{"text":43691,"start":1070,"end":1150},"Und mit diesen ganzen Cookie Bannern und Anforderungen habt ihr euch ja schon sehr lange beschäftigt, weil ihr macht eigentlich im Hauptgeschäft, darf man so Webseiten sagen?",27,{"sentences":43694,"speaker":444,"num_words":43697,"start":1154,"end":1167},[43695],{"text":43696,"start":1154,"end":1167},"Ja, unter anderem, ja.",4,{"sentences":43699,"speaker":181,"num_words":43658,"start":1167,"end":1187},[43700],{"text":43701,"start":1167,"end":1187},"Unter anderem, was macht ihr noch so?",{"sentences":43703,"speaker":444,"num_words":43710,"start":1187,"end":1364},[43704,43706,43708],{"text":43705,"start":1187,"end":1209},"Genau, also das ist dann die die Agenturseite.",{"text":43707,"start":1214,"end":1236},"Letztendlich hat digitale Plattformen aller Art.",{"text":43709,"start":1236,"end":1364},"Also es sind auch native Apps dabei, Webseiten, aber auch viel so Backend Shit, interne Tools, halt alles, was man irgendwie entwickeln kann, was irgendwie in 'nem Browser abgeht und teilweise halt auch aufm mobilen Endgerät so.",51,{"sentences":43712,"speaker":160,"num_words":43715,"start":1364,"end":1448},[43713],{"text":43714,"start":1364,"end":1448},"Aber vielleicht kannst Du dann Hörern dann jetzt mal den Namen dazu nennen sozusagen, wer wer seid ihr und was macht ihr in erster Linie, was Privacy first ist?",29,{"sentences":43717,"speaker":444,"num_words":43720,"start":1452,"end":1492},[43718],{"text":43719,"start":1452,"end":1492},"Genau, also vielleicht so der das, worüber wir jetzt grade kurz gesprochen haben, Thema.",14,{"sentences":43722,"speaker":181,"num_words":43639,"start":1492,"end":1518},[43723],{"text":43724,"start":1492,"end":1518},"Das ist mein Übergang ruiniert, Fabi.",{"sentences":43726,"speaker":444,"num_words":43735,"start":1522,"end":1759},[43727,43729,43731,43733],{"text":43728,"start":1522,"end":1557},"Also einmal gibt's dann die Agentur, aber das ist jetzt eher dann Ranthema.",{"text":43730,"start":1557,"end":1591},"Das ist, wo wir dann Webseiten bla machen, die heißt P-Media.",{"text":43732,"start":1595,"end":1622},"Gibt's jetzt auch schon knapp 18 Jahre, was erschreckend ist.",{"text":43734,"start":1625,"end":1759},"Aber ist das das Produkt, unsere Videohosting Streaming Plattformen, wo wir sozusagen Videohosting machen in Short Video im Bett, wo man eben keinen Cookie Banner, keinen Cookieconsent braucht, halt 'n Video auf seiner Website zu kriegen, mal einfach gesagt.",73,{"sentences":43737,"speaker":181,"num_words":43748,"start":1763,"end":2019},[43738,43740,43742,43744,43746],{"text":43739,"start":1763,"end":1831},"Und vielleicht holen wir da trotzdem noch 'n Stück aus und gehen noch 'n halben Schritt zurück, weil ihr habt das ja auch für euch gebaut.",{"text":43741,"start":1835,"end":1871},"Genau, deswegen wollt ihr auf diese Leidensgeschichte so son bisschen raus.",{"text":43743,"start":1871,"end":1894},"Ihr leidet selbst am meisten mitunter Cookiebanner.",{"text":43745,"start":1898,"end":1967},"Wie oder was hat für euch das Fass so zum Überlaufen gebracht, dass ihr gesagt habt, das lohnt sich jetzt für uns, diese Plattform zu bauen.",{"text":43747,"start":1967,"end":2019},"Weil ich mein, das Web hat ja das ein oder andere Problem, außer Cookiebandan vielleicht auch noch.",87,{"sentences":43750,"speaker":181,"num_words":43753,"start":2019,"end":2092},[43751],{"text":43752,"start":2019,"end":2092},"Und trotzdem geht man ja nicht jeden Tag daher und sagt, okay, ich bau jetzt hier was, das so im Großen und Ganzen zu lösen.",25,{"sentences":43755,"speaker":444,"num_words":1595,"start":2096,"end":2536},[43756,43758,43760,43762,43764],{"text":43757,"start":2096,"end":2258},"Der Startpunkt war letztendlich tatsächlich dann im Agentur Case da, eine Webseite von 'nem Kunden oder mehreren Kunden am Ende des Tages, das auch dann sozusagen unser unser Pilot kundet, in dem Fall das Phantasialand, halt sehr emotionales Produkt und entsprechend emotional mit Bewegtbild versehener Webseite, alles alles bewegt sich.",{"text":43759,"start":2258,"end":2313},"Man kann sich halt irgendwie vorstellen, dass son Thema in in Standbilder nicht so gut funktioniert wie eben in Bewegung.",{"text":43761,"start":2313,"end":2385},"Und dann ist irgendwie alles cool und dann guckst Du dir aber dann irgendwann mal das ganze Thema an, wie bist Du aufgestellt, sozusagen DSGVO?",{"text":43763,"start":2389,"end":2445},"Dann kommt irgendwann auch mal eine Prüfung und dann stellt sie fest, Du bist irgendwie da in dem Fall wie Miokunde.",{"text":43765,"start":2449,"end":2536},"Und dann sagt dir halt der der liebe Datenschutzmensch mit mit voller Berechtigung, hey, ihr habt eine coole Website, aber die Videos, die könnt ihr erst alle nach Cookieconsent abspielen.",{"sentences":43767,"speaker":444,"num_words":43778,"start":2539,"end":2880},[43768,43770,43772,43774,43776],{"text":43769,"start":2539,"end":2574},"Und dann stellst Du, ja, dann sieht halt die Hälfte keine Videos.",{"text":43771,"start":2579,"end":2714},"Vor allem, wenn Du dann jetzt nicht einfach irgendwie 'n Video im Content hast mit 'nem dicken Play Button drauf, sondern wenn Du halt das dem Ganze irgendwie integriert in Hintergründen, Autoplay, dekorativ einsetzen willst, dann macht's dir das Leben halt umso schwerer.",{"text":43773,"start":2717,"end":2742},"Und dann standen wir da und dann sagen wir, unbefriedigend.",{"text":43775,"start":2746,"end":2808},"Und vielleicht dann auch so der der Boom, ich bin jetzt gar kein Datenschutzheini, sondern ich komm da aus der Webexperience Ecke.",{"text":43777,"start":2812,"end":2880},"Ist einfach ist einfach scheiße, wenn die wenn die Webseite dann son son Qualitätsverlust in Sachen irgendwie so User Experience oder halt auch Immersion hat.",112,{"sentences":43780,"speaker":444,"num_words":43791,"start":2884,"end":3113},[43781,43783,43785,43787,43789],{"text":43782,"start":2884,"end":2905},"Und dann haben wir gesagt, ja, kann nicht sein.",{"text":43784,"start":2905,"end":2952},"Und dann gehst Du irgendwie auf die Suche, findest irgendwie jetzt nicht einfach son Drop in Replacement.",{"text":43786,"start":2956,"end":3046},"Und dann kam so der Punkt, ja, ich hab zu Corona schon mal eine eine Plattform gebaut, da ging's Live- und Streaming von Fitnesskursen für so selbstständige Fitnesstrainerinnen, Trainer.",{"text":43788,"start":3050,"end":3095},"Sagt, ja, die die Technologie, die Pipeline haben wir irgendwie noch so in 'ner Schublade liegen.",{"text":43790,"start":3095,"end":3113},"Wir wissen eigentlich, wie's geht.",76,{"sentences":43793,"speaker":444,"num_words":43804,"start":3113,"end":3288},[43794,43796,43798,43800,43802],{"text":43795,"start":3113,"end":3128},"Lass doch mal probieren.",{"text":43797,"start":3131,"end":3170},"Und dann war Kunde 1, Phantasialand, dann kam Agenturkunde 2, Agenturkunde 3.",{"text":43799,"start":3170,"end":3233},"Und dann denkst Du, ja okay, eigentlich würde ich dann nicht mal probieren, da jetzt was was 1 draus zu machen.",{"text":43801,"start":3233,"end":3251},"Vielleicht brauchen sie ja noch mehr.",{"text":43803,"start":3255,"end":3288},"Und dann haben wir 'n Prototypen gebaut und dann ist 'n Produkt draus geworden.",57,{"sentences":43806,"speaker":181,"num_words":43817,"start":3291,"end":3623},[43807,43809,43811,43813,43815],{"text":43808,"start":3291,"end":3379},"Bevor wir darüber sprechen, wie ihr das gebaut habt und was so die Architektur da hinten dran ist, würd mich vielleicht noch ganz kurz interessieren, wie das Gespräch mit euren Kunden gelaufen ist.",{"text":43810,"start":3379,"end":3446},"Weil ich kann mir schon vorstellen, dass dieser, also Du hast ja, dich hatte sich das gestört aus so dieser Emissionsperspektive sozusagen, ja.",{"text":43812,"start":3449,"end":3497},"Aber das ist ja nicht was, wofür jeder Kunde im Zweifelsfall bereit ist, Geld auszugeben, so, ne.",{"text":43814,"start":3497,"end":3602},"Viele gucken da vielleicht auch drauf und sagen sich, na ja, dann müssen die Leute jetzt son Cookie Banner vorher klicken, dafür muss ich für meine Videoplattform nix bezahlen, das kann einfach so bei Youtube liegen.",{"text":43816,"start":3604,"end":3623},"Wie wie lief da das Gespräch und die Abwägung?",118,{"sentences":43819,"speaker":444,"num_words":43828,"start":3626,"end":3913},[43820,43822,43824,43826],{"text":43821,"start":3626,"end":3710},"Das das Schöne war in dem Fall, dass Vimeo ja auch nicht kostenlos ist, vor allem, wenn Du jetzt irgendwie 'n bisschen mehr Video durchballerst als jetzt irgendwie so halt sone Miniwebsite.",{"text":43823,"start":3714,"end":3799},"Das heißt, der erste Ansatz war zu sagen, okay, wir wissen noch nicht ganz genau, was uns das Ganze kostet, weil wir sagen einfach mal, wir matchen den Preis und machen's dann dafür.",{"text":43825,"start":3803,"end":3875},"Und zum Glück in dem Fall ist halt der Kunde auch super empfänglich für das ganze Thema Immersion Experience steht bei denen super oben auf der Prioritätenliste.",{"text":43827,"start":3879,"end":3913},"Und dann hatten wir tatsächlich in dem Fall eigentlich wenig Überzeugungsarbeit zu leisten.",105,{"sentences":43830,"speaker":160,"num_words":43839,"start":3916,"end":4253},[43831,43833,43835,43837],{"text":43832,"start":3916,"end":3980},"Und vielleicht kannst Du dann mal für die, die jetzt nicht so viel mit Video und Embedden auf Homepages so was zu tun haben, so.",{"text":43834,"start":3983,"end":4042},"Was aber halt so gemeint hat, man hat jetzt irgendwie geschaut, okay, wo gibt's noch andere Anbieter außer wie Meo so?",{"text":43836,"start":4042,"end":4183},"Jetzt hat man jetzt ja ganz Pläne Use Case so einfach, na ja, dann dann ist das halt einfach auf meinem Server und wir machen halt nicht und die machen Streaming so, kann man, wenn da oben so Preview Videos sind, dann müssen wir halt so klein komprimieren, dass es irgendwie funktioniert.",{"text":43838,"start":4183,"end":4253},"Also was war denn, wie habt ihr's denn am Ende gelöst, bis ihr nach Kunde 3 dann gesagt habt, so, jetzt bauen wir vielleicht mal doch eine Lösung dafür?",127,{"sentences":43841,"speaker":444,"num_words":43850,"start":4257,"end":4758},[43842,43844,43846,43848],{"text":43843,"start":4257,"end":4439},"Also es gibt natürlich auch immer die, ich sag mal, die kleinen Lösungen, weil man jetzt irgendwie mal 'n kleines Videoschnipsel hat, was irgendwo im Hintergrund in 'nem Loop abspielen soll und dann speise ich halt eine eine MP4 irgendwo hin, die ist dann, hast dann dann 5 Sekunden Loop und dann ist die irgendwie klein, so, safe ist überhaupt kein kein großes Ding.",{"text":43845,"start":4442,"end":4537},"Wenn man dann, ich sag mal, wenn das Ganze anspruchsvoller wird, gibt's eigentlich mehrere Hebel, wo man dann an den Punkt kommt, dass man eigentlich vielleicht 'n Videohoster einsetzen will, der's irgendwie besser skaliberer macht.",{"text":43847,"start":4537,"end":4602},"Es ist, sobald erstens sehr viel Videocontent ausgespielt wird, weil Traffic ist an sich erst mal eine teure Ressource im Netz.",{"text":43849,"start":4602,"end":4758},"Es wird sehr viel, ist sehr günstig im Hosting Bereich, aber ab irgend 'nem Punkt hält dann doch jeder die Hand auf, wenn Du ordentlich Traffic durchballerst, wenn man mal in den Hosting Verträgen dann so ins Kleingedruckte guckt, stehen da dann doch irgendwelche Gigabyte Zahlen, die man vielleicht nicht dauerhaft überschreiten darf.",173,{"sentences":43852,"speaker":160,"num_words":43863,"start":4762,"end":4941},[43853,43855,43857,43859,43861],{"text":43854,"start":4762,"end":4866},"Das hatten wir letztens bei bei Word beziehungsweise letzten Mal unsere Kosten für die Google Cloud durch und erst gesehen, wie viel Kosten wir dafür haben, dass wir die Profilbilder von in 'nem im anzeigen so.",{"text":43856,"start":4866,"end":4881},"Es ist keine vernachlässigbare Größe.",{"text":43858,"start":4884,"end":4914},"Ich mein, da haben wir jetzt 'n paar der Technik Abschaffen.",{"text":43860,"start":4918,"end":4928},"Einfach abschaffen, ja.",{"text":43862,"start":4930,"end":4941},"Sind paar Sachen verändert.",59,{"sentences":43865,"speaker":160,"num_words":43692,"start":4941,"end":5017},[43866,43868],{"text":43867,"start":4941,"end":4994},"Ich mein, war mal nicht so gut aufgestellt, aber wieder waschen waschen interessant, wie groß dieser Faktor ist.",{"text":43869,"start":4994,"end":5017},"Crabt man sich vorher gar nicht so ganz an,",{"sentences":43871,"speaker":444,"num_words":43881,"start":5017,"end":5242},[43872,43873,43875,43877,43879],{"text":5022,"start":5017,"end":5019},{"text":43874,"start":5019,"end":5067},"Ja, also das ist ein Faktor, das ist dann aber für die Kunden, die sehr viel Durchsatz haben.",{"text":43876,"start":5067,"end":5099},"Und der andere Faktor ist einfach die die Performance auch, also auch Ladezeiten.",{"text":43878,"start":5102,"end":5171},"Das heißt, alles, was irgendwie jetzt mal über 4, 5, 6 Sekunden Länge geht, will man in der Regel dann, wenn's irgendwie geht, adaptiv streamen.",{"text":43880,"start":5171,"end":5242},"Das heißt, nicht eine dicke m p 4 dahinballern, sondern das Ganze wird dann automatisch im Encodingprozess in kleine Chunks unterteilt und",79,{"sentences":43883,"speaker":181,"num_words":43651,"start":5245,"end":5274},[43884],{"text":43885,"start":5245,"end":5274},"Aber auch das könnt ich ja Startstoff mal im Server machen.",{"sentences":43887,"speaker":444,"num_words":444,"start":5274,"end":5282},[43888],{"text":43889,"start":5274,"end":5282},"Kann man",{"sentences":43891,"speaker":181,"num_words":43899,"start":5282,"end":5332},[43892,43894,43896,43898],{"text":43893,"start":5282,"end":5289},"alles, genau.",{"text":43895,"start":5293,"end":5315},"Einfach alle möglichen Auflösungen und Schnipsel hinschmeißen.",{"text":43897,"start":5319,"end":5327},"Genau, wär's auch.",{"text":5334,"start":5331,"end":5332},13,{"sentences":43901,"speaker":444,"num_words":43911,"start":5332,"end":5707},[43902,43903,43905,43907,43909],{"text":5334,"start":5332,"end":5336},{"text":43904,"start":5336,"end":5432},"Und als, ich sag mal, als Entwickler oder als jemand, der die die technische Expertise mitbringt, so was zu tun, hält mich ja erst mal grundsätzlich nehmen wir davon ab, irgendwas selbst zu bauen.",{"text":43906,"start":5432,"end":5506},"Ich glaub, weiß ich nicht, wir sind ja, also, ne, ne, wir haben alle irgendwie 'n technischen Hintergrund, wir sind alle irgendwie Spielkinder auch in der Hinsicht.",{"text":43908,"start":5506,"end":5556},"Das heißt, man hat ja auch manchmal Bock drauf, dann so was zu bauen und kann ich niemandem verübeln.",{"text":43910,"start":5559,"end":5707},"Für die meisten Kunden ist es dann ja eher, ja, jetzt jetzt da, wenn die Agentur dran setzen oder irgendwie intern Personal dran setzen, etwas zu bauen, was andere jetzt schon fertig hier haben Und dann, keine Ahnung, kann man da auch zu uns kommen und irgendwie ab 9 Euro im Monat sich 'n Hosting Paket holen.",138,{"sentences":43913,"speaker":444,"num_words":43921,"start":5707,"end":5826},[43914,43916,43918,43919],{"text":43915,"start":5707,"end":5783},"Dafür, also muss man schon erst 'n, muss man sehr schnell sein oder die, ja, selbst mit selbst mit KI, Du brauchst Encoding, Du musst die Pipelines.",{"text":43917,"start":5783,"end":5801},"Es ist nicht so einfach zu replizieren.",{"text":5808,"start":5805,"end":5806},{"text":43920,"start":5806,"end":5826},"Aber Spaß macht's trotzdem, also wer will.",42,{"sentences":43923,"speaker":181,"num_words":43928,"start":5830,"end":6041},[43924,43926],{"text":43925,"start":5830,"end":5948},"Und ihr habt ja auch, also so wie ich mir das vorstelle, großes Projekt, Fantasialand, das ist ja auch nicht nur ein Video, sondern das hängt ja wahrscheinlich an 'nem CMS, die wollen das Video mal tauschen, da ist so saisonaler Content irgendwie drauf.",{"text":43927,"start":5951,"end":6041},"Das heißt, die wollen ja auch jetzt nicht alle 3 Wochen wieder da die Pipeline anschmeißen, sondern die wollen das ja vielleicht in 'nem CMS sein, wo das einfach irgendwo hingeladen wird und dann ist fertig oder so.",82,{"sentences":43930,"speaker":444,"num_words":43791,"start":6041,"end":6274},[43931,43933,43935,43937,43939],{"text":43932,"start":6041,"end":6049},"Nee, genau.",{"text":43934,"start":6052,"end":6089},"Der der reine das reine Handling 1 einzelnen Videodatei ist ja irgendwie easy.",{"text":43936,"start":6089,"end":6196},"Das wird ja dann spaßiger, wenn Du eben erstens über xhundert Videos sprichst, die halt auch noch verwaltbar haben willst, ans CMS angedockt, austauschbar, ohne dass Du jetzt irgendwie jedes Mal wieder auch Code anfassen musst.",{"text":43938,"start":6199,"end":6238},"Du willst vielleicht automatisch dir euer Untertitel generieren, das transkribieren lassen, übersetzen lassen.",{"text":43940,"start":6238,"end":6274},"Du willst vielleicht auch den Player fertig haben mit gewissen Accessibility Standards.",{"sentences":43942,"speaker":444,"num_words":43945,"start":6274,"end":6346},[43943],{"text":43944,"start":6274,"end":6346},"Also da hängt dann irgendwie viel dran, was dann eher sich den den Prozess auch dreht, Videos gut und schnell auf auf 'ner Plattform irgendwie drauf zu haben.",28,{"sentences":43947,"speaker":181,"num_words":43955,"start":6349,"end":6485},[43948,43949,43951,43953],{"text":6353,"start":6349,"end":6350},{"text":43950,"start":6355,"end":6423},"Und jetzt hast Du gesagt, ihr hattet quasi den Vorteil, dass ihr schon ein anderes Videoportal hattet, was ihr quasi als Ausgangssituation nehmen konntet für Ignite.",{"text":43952,"start":6428,"end":6445},"Was war da so die die technische Grundlage?",{"text":43954,"start":6445,"end":6485},"Was war schon da und was hat euch da noch gefehlt, als ihr dann quasi angefangen habt?",52,{"sentences":43957,"speaker":444,"num_words":43968,"start":6485,"end":6750},[43958,43960,43962,43964,43966],{"text":43959,"start":6485,"end":6507},"Also die technische Grundlage war relativ straight forward.",{"text":43961,"start":6507,"end":6593},"Das war eher so, ich hab sozusagen das irgendwie das Cloud Format Template für für die das Ding schon mal, also für den kompletten Prozess, den Prozess Upload, Trigger, Encoding läuft durch.",{"text":43963,"start":6593,"end":6629},"Es werden x Auflösung generiert von 4 k runter bis 240 p.",{"text":43965,"start":6633,"end":6720},"Es wird 'n Thumbnail rausgezogen, so das, was wenn man jetzt von 0 anfängt, vielleicht auch so mal die die erste Woche 2 Uhr rumprobieren ist, bis man mal zu 'ner Lösung kommt.",{"text":43967,"start":6720,"end":6750},"Das war da, das hat einfach nur die erste Hürde gesenkt.",96,{"sentences":43970,"speaker":444,"num_words":43981,"start":6754,"end":7203},[43971,43973,43975,43977,43979],{"text":43972,"start":6754,"end":6853},"Ansonsten ist der Ansatz jetzt so und war so oder ist auch immer noch so, dass wir für jeden für jeden Kunden, der sozusagen Videos hostet, bekommt man 'n eigenen Cloud Storage, 'n 'n s 3 Bucket.",{"text":43974,"start":6853,"end":7020},"Davor kommt eine eigene CDN Distribution mit entweder 'ner 'ner Subdomain, die jetzt generisch dann von uns kommt, so was wie Kundenname Punkt und wir haben dann die EU Video CDN Punkt com, Zertifikat und vor allem auch eine Infrastrukturuserebene, die auf den Kundenstorage abgeschirmt ist, sodass kein kein Dataschharing auch zwischen den Kunden stattfinden kann.",{"text":43976,"start":7023,"end":7115},"Das war dann schon so die, sag mal, die Extrapolation des der der Technologiepipeline, die wir damals gebaut hatten, weil da, wie gesagt, im im Enterprise Videobereich ist ja auch nicht anders.",{"text":43978,"start":7115,"end":7160},"Du beauftragst jemanden, der macht dir dein Storage deine Domain, setzt das alles händisch auf.",{"text":43980,"start":7163,"end":7203},"Und die Idee war dann, okay, schaffen wir das nicht pro Kunden, das zu replizieren?",155,{"sentences":43983,"speaker":444,"num_words":43988,"start":7207,"end":7464},[43984,43986],{"text":43985,"start":7207,"end":7251},"Das hat dann funktioniert, zu dem Zeitpunkt halt noch, ich sag mal, manuell, semi manuell.",{"text":43987,"start":7255,"end":7464},"Und der der Clou war dann eigentlich zu schauen, schaffen wir es, das zu automatisieren, in den Self Service zu bringen, sodass wir nicht nur händisch die großen Agentur- und Enterprisekunden zu uns holen können und denen das einrichten können, sondern dass wir sagen können, Du gehst auf unsere Website, stellst dir 'n Account und all das passiert wirklich auf Infrastrukturebene vollautomatisch in Echtzeit, in live ohne Verzögerung und Du hast dann dein Videohosting.",89,{"sentences":43990,"speaker":160,"num_words":44001,"start":7467,"end":7787},[43991,43993,43995,43997,43999],{"text":43992,"start":7467,"end":7578},"Und das vielleicht auch, damit ich's vielleicht noch mal in meinen Worten wiederholen, vielleicht für die auch mal wiederhol, die auch gar nicht jetzt datenschutzmäßig, warum, was jetzt genau in Vimeo schlecht ist und an euch gut, wenn man so ist.",{"text":43994,"start":7578,"end":7649},"Also wenn ich's versteh, der große Unterschied ist eigentlich nur, wenn man's runterbricht, wenn ich auf Vimeo was hoste, dann liegt mein Video bei Vimeo.",{"text":43996,"start":7649,"end":7673},"Das heißt, man hat immer mit dem Vimeo Server Kontakt.",{"text":43998,"start":7673,"end":7737},"Und genau deswegen haben wir das Problem, dass wir ab da dann, weil sie dafür auch okay setzen müssen und so weiter, irgendwie einen Einwilligung brauchen.",{"text":44000,"start":7737,"end":7787},"Und ihr habt eine Infrastruktur gebaut, wo am Ende, wenn ich etwas hoste, am Ende die Infrastruktur meine ist.",121,{"sentences":44003,"speaker":160,"num_words":44009,"start":7787,"end":7949},[44004,44006,44008],{"text":44005,"start":7787,"end":7843},"Ihr seid sozusagen nur der Layer, durch den aus ich diese eigene Infrastruktur konfigurieren, die ganzen Features automatisiert hinpacke oder wie.",{"text":44007,"start":7846,"end":7946},"Was ist so, vielleicht auch grad am Anfang als ich hingegangen, ihr habt euch wahrscheinlich Vimeo angeguckt und ihr werdet, okay, was ist bei was was macht Vimeo, was wir anders tun müssen, dieses Banner nicht mehr zu haben?",{"text":5808,"start":7946,"end":7949},61,{"sentences":44011,"speaker":444,"num_words":43692,"start":7949,"end":8033},[44012],{"text":44013,"start":7949,"end":8033},"Also die, das den Cookie Banner loszuwerden, ist die Grundvoraussetzung eigentlich simpel, man darf keine personenbezogenen Daten von den Websitebesuchern, die die Videos konsumieren, erfassen und verarbeiten.",{"sentences":44015,"speaker":160,"num_words":160,"start":8036,"end":8037},[44016],{"text":6353,"start":8036,"end":8037},{"sentences":44018,"speaker":444,"num_words":44025,"start":8037,"end":8256},[44019,44021,44023],{"text":44020,"start":8037,"end":8060},"Immer wenn das stattfindet, brauchst Du vorher den Content.",{"text":44022,"start":8060,"end":8174},"Also ich als Besucher, als Bruder Du, als Besucher kommst auf meine Website, ich zeig dir 'n Video, das nicht direkt bei mir liegt als First Party, sondern bei 1 dritten Partei, nämlich wir zum Beispiel auch oder Vimeo oder Youtube.",{"text":44024,"start":8177,"end":8256},"Und wenn ich dann dadurch sozusagen dich dazu zwinge, dass deine personenbezogenen dann an diese Drittpartei gehen, dann muss ich vorher fragen, bevor ich das tue mit dem Cookie Banner.",80,{"sentences":44027,"speaker":160,"num_words":444,"start":8256,"end":8262},[44028,44029],{"text":6353,"start":8256,"end":8259},{"text":403,"start":8259,"end":8262},{"sentences":44031,"speaker":444,"num_words":44040,"start":8262,"end":8504},[44032,44034,44036,44038],{"text":44033,"start":8262,"end":8278},"ich muss dir erlauben, abzulehnen.",{"text":44035,"start":8278,"end":8355},"Und dann siehst Du halt entweder kein Video und unsere Technologie kommt halt komplett ohne die Verarbeitung, die Erfassung von personenbezogenen Daten aus und damit ist sie sozusagen dann consentfrei.",{"text":44037,"start":8359,"end":8374},"Und das ist erst mal der Grundgedanke.",{"text":44039,"start":8374,"end":8504},"Der der der Rest ist sozusagen, also die Trennung von wirklich dem Storage auch ist das, was wir noch mal oben drauf gesetzt haben, die Sache aus unserer Sicht wirklich rundzumachen, wirklich da auch keine, auch die Videodaten der Kunden nicht nicht miteinander zu durchmischen und so weiter.",90,{"sentences":44042,"speaker":181,"num_words":44045,"start":8504,"end":8590},[44043],{"text":44044,"start":8504,"end":8590},"Das heißt, ihr habt jetzt kein son klassisches Multitenant System gebaut, sondern es wird schon für jeden Kunden sone eigene Infrastruktur Umgebung geboostrappt in dem Moment, wo er sich anmeldet.",30,{"sentences":44047,"speaker":444,"num_words":44052,"start":8594,"end":8702},[44048,44050],{"text":44049,"start":8594,"end":8612},"Genau, zumindest was die Videoausspielung angeht.",{"text":44051,"start":8612,"end":8702},"So die die, das ist eine eine Applikation, aber so gesehen ist es schon irgendwie Multi Tenant, aber ja, jeder Kunde hat eine eigene Content Delivery Pipeline, wenn man's mal so sehen will.",39,{"sentences":44054,"speaker":181,"num_words":43658,"start":8702,"end":8726},[44055,44057],{"text":44056,"start":8702,"end":8722},"Und seinen eigenen S-drei-Bucket und Genau.",{"text":8728,"start":8725,"end":8726},{"sentences":44059,"speaker":444,"num_words":44066,"start":8726,"end":8816},[44060,44062,44064],{"text":44061,"start":8726,"end":8744},"Ja, ist auch der Player zum Beispiel.",{"text":44063,"start":8744,"end":8784},"Also das ist dann eine statische Applikation, eine ganz kleine, die wir dann vorher bilden.",{"text":44065,"start":8787,"end":8816},"Und die wird dann in jeden Bucket von jedem Kunden rein deployed.",34,{"sentences":44068,"speaker":181,"num_words":226,"start":8820,"end":8856},[44069,44071],{"text":44070,"start":8820,"end":8852},"Das ist alles aus seinem aus seiner Domain Space geladen werden.",{"text":318,"start":8852,"end":8856},{"sentences":44073,"speaker":444,"num_words":44082,"start":8858,"end":9146},[44074,44076,44078,44080],{"text":44075,"start":8858,"end":8930},"Und der der Vorteil ist halt, dass wir auch gar keine eigene Server Middleware zwischen Bucket und CDN haben müssen, die irgendwie hops gehen kann bei gewisser Last.",{"text":44077,"start":8930,"end":8979},"Das heißt, wir können bis zur Belastungsgrenze des CDN und des Storage kann kann da drauf geballert werden.",{"text":44079,"start":8979,"end":9054},"Eigentlich kann das Ding nicht umfallen, es sei denn, die die Gesamtinfrastruktur bricht irgendwie in sich zusammen, aber dann hat das 'n jetzt andere Probleme als paar Videos.",{"text":44081,"start":9056,"end":9146},"Und das das macht das extrem robust und sorgt noch mal auch zusätzlich dafür, dass wir auch gar nicht die sozusagen gar nicht die die Chance haben, jetzt irgendwie direkt da im größeren Maße Daten abzugreifen.",110,{"sentences":44084,"speaker":181,"num_words":44087,"start":9150,"end":9172},[44085],{"text":44086,"start":9150,"end":9172},"Aber auch das CDN muss ja erst mal irgendwo herkommen.",10,{"sentences":44089,"speaker":444,"num_words":160,"start":9175,"end":9176},[44090],{"text":318,"start":9175,"end":9176},{"sentences":44092,"speaker":181,"num_words":44101,"start":9180,"end":9298},[44093,44094,44096,44098,44100],{"text":9183,"start":9180,"end":9181},{"text":44095,"start":9181,"end":9231},"Und das habt ihr ja wahrscheinlich nicht selber gebaut, weil das ist ja auch relativ teuer und aufwendig so, ja.",{"text":44097,"start":9234,"end":9254},"Sondern auch da müsst ihr irgendwie den nutzen.",{"text":44099,"start":9257,"end":9293},"Wie war da die Suche nach 'nem Dienstleister dafür, der eure Vorstellung von teilt?",{"text":318,"start":9297,"end":9298},44,{"sentences":44103,"speaker":444,"num_words":44114,"start":9301,"end":9700},[44104,44106,44108,44110,44112],{"text":44105,"start":9301,"end":9414},"Kompliziert, sag ich mal, weil wir dadurch, dass wir auf diese Abwicklung des ganzen Infrastruktur Set ups per API angewiesen sind am Ende des Tages, also wir sind jetzt aktuell haben wir irgendwie 700 plus Accounts bei uns im System von Kunden.",{"text":44107,"start":9414,"end":9468},"Das heißt, wir verwalten irgendwie 700 plus buckets, 700 plus CDN Distribution, I m user, what soever.",{"text":44109,"start":9472,"end":9533},"Am Ende sind wir jetzt aktuell bei der Auslieferungspipeline bei ABS mit s 3 und mit Cloud Front als CDN, das auszuspielen.",{"text":44111,"start":9536,"end":9685},"Und haben immer mal jetzt wieder Versuche auch mit mit anderen Services da gemacht, aber am Ende kommst Du bei der Skalierung nicht drum rum, irgendjemand zu, also am Ende landest Du wieder bei einem von den Hyperskalern, wenn Du diese diesen Grad an API Fähigkeit zu haben auf dem Niveau, wie wir's irgendwie brauchen.",{"text":44113,"start":9688,"end":9700},"Und dann dann bist Du da.",142,{"sentences":44116,"speaker":444,"num_words":44127,"start":9700,"end":9933},[44117,44119,44121,44123,44125],{"text":44118,"start":9700,"end":9723},"Und da funktioniert's allerdings auch wirklich sehr, sehr gut.",{"text":44120,"start":9727,"end":9787},"Und jetzt können wir sagen, oh klar, AWS, also erstens klar, die die Daten liegen irgendwie dann in in Frankfurt davon und so weiter.",{"text":44122,"start":9787,"end":9851},"Jetzt gibt's irgendwie grade wieder sehr das Thema Cloud Act und was ist denn wenn und so weiter, wenn da irgendjemand 'n Durchgriff stattfinden sollte.",{"text":44124,"start":9854,"end":9895},"Der Clou am System ist halt einfach, dass gar keine personenbezogenen Daten erfasst werden, wenn jemand 'n Video guckt.",{"text":44126,"start":9895,"end":9933},"Also gibt's auch nichts zu schützen in dem Sinne, was, da ist einfach nichts und",92,{"sentences":44129,"speaker":160,"num_words":43839,"start":9936,"end":10263},[44130,44132,44134,44136],{"text":44131,"start":9936,"end":10046},"Und vielleicht, das wär ja vorhin noch mal eine Frage gewesen, weil Du ja meintest, so eigentlich dieser Part mit eigener Infrastruktur und so was, das war das das und eigentlich erst mal gar nicht dafür notwendig, dass ich diesen Cookie Banner entferne.",{"text":44133,"start":10046,"end":10158},"Kannst Du vielleicht mal probieren, uns möglichst einfach zu erklären, was ist denn grundsätzlich notwendig oder was, wenn man jetzt mal s 3 und diese ganzen technischen Finessen irgendwie weglässt, so, was ist denn das, was die Meeo erhebt, was ihr nicht erhebt?",{"text":44135,"start":10158,"end":10197},"Und warum macht das vielleicht Meeo und warum ihr, na gut, warum ihr nicht, wissen wir.",{"text":44137,"start":10197,"end":10263},"Aber was sind das für oder was was müsstet ihr tun in der einfachsten Form, das hinzustellen, ohne dass ihr jetzt diese Infrastruktur genauso baut?",{"sentences":44139,"speaker":444,"num_words":44149,"start":10266,"end":10435},[44140,44141,44143,44145,44147],{"text":5808,"start":10266,"end":10267},{"text":44142,"start":10267,"end":10286},"Also warum ist immer eine gute Frage.",{"text":44144,"start":10286,"end":10376},"Und das fängt ja auch, wie gesagt, Youtube zum Beispiel ist eigentlich auch klar, dass deren Interesse ist ja, dass sie zum Beispiel Informationen über Personen sammeln, an die dann Werbung ausgespielt werden können.",{"text":44146,"start":10376,"end":10394},"Das heißt, sie brauchen diese personenbezogenen Daten.",{"text":44148,"start":10394,"end":10435},"Sie wollen einen Cookie bei den Leuten setzen, damit sie sie mit Werbung targetnen können.",64,{"sentences":44151,"speaker":444,"num_words":44161,"start":10435,"end":10761},[44152,44153,44155,44157,44159],{"text":5808,"start":10435,"end":10438},{"text":44154,"start":10441,"end":10562},"Ist das das Kerninteresse so wie Meu hat auch irgendwie 'n Teil davon davon als Geschäftsmodell, wobei sie sich da irgendwie jetzt mehrfach auch verändert haben, weil letztendlich tun sie am Ende dasselbe und erfassen halt auch den den Nutzer und stellen damit dann irgendwas an.",{"text":44156,"start":10562,"end":10624},"Keine Ahnung, ob's dann da noch Data Reselling gibt, bei einigen ja, bei anderen nein, ist immer schwierig zu sagen von außen.",{"text":44158,"start":10628,"end":10682},"Fakt ist, dass da diese Daten verarbeitet werden und es ist ja wie im Website Tracking, ist genau dasselbe Thema, also Website Analytics.",{"text":44160,"start":10685,"end":10761},"Google Analytics kannst Du auch nicht consentfrei betreiben, da bist Du dann auch irgendwie bei entweder was selbstgehosteten oder bei so Plausible oder Simple Analytics, Matomo whatever.",119,{"sentences":44163,"speaker":444,"num_words":43928,"start":10764,"end":10983},[44164,44166,44168,44170,44172],{"text":44165,"start":10764,"end":10798},"Und die kriegen's ja auch hin, 'n gescheites Website Analytics ohne Personenbezug hinzukriegen.",{"text":44167,"start":10802,"end":10811},"Und Google irgendwie auch nicht.",{"text":44169,"start":10814,"end":10882},"Warum, weiß ich nicht, weil anscheinend, dass der Default Mode im Web grade bei den großen Anbietern so ist, dass sie alles über alle wissen wollen.",{"text":44171,"start":10884,"end":10947},"Er schließt sich mir aber nicht, weil ich ja eigentlich denke, zum Beispiel dieses, ich möchte auch einfach nur meine Videos auf meiner Webseite haben, Punkt.",{"text":44173,"start":10951,"end":10983},"Wieso müssen dafür personenbezogene Daten von meinen Besuchern an jemand Dritten gehen?",{"sentences":44175,"speaker":181,"num_words":44183,"start":10983,"end":11152},[44176,44177,44179,44181],{"text":5808,"start":10983,"end":10986},{"text":44178,"start":10989,"end":11071},"Aber ist das wirklich so einfach oder vielleicht müssen wir kurz darüber sprechen, was personenbezogene Daten da wirklich sind, weil Vimeo trackt ja nicht nur für das Marketing, sondern ja auch für die Funktionalität, ne.",{"text":44180,"start":11071,"end":11098},"Also funktioniert der Player, mit welcher Auflösung wird da gespielt?",{"text":44182,"start":11098,"end":11152},"Die wollen ja auch son bisschen systemischer Analytics irgendwie haben am Ende des Tages und da seid ihr ja auch drauf angewiesen.",68,{"sentences":44185,"speaker":444,"num_words":43720,"start":11155,"end":11191},[44186,44188],{"text":44187,"start":11155,"end":11176},"Genau, aber dafür brauch ich ja eigentlich keinen Personenbezug.",{"text":44189,"start":11180,"end":11191},"Den kann ich ja weglassen.",{"sentences":44191,"speaker":181,"num_words":44198,"start":11195,"end":11333},[44192,44194,44196],{"text":44193,"start":11195,"end":11245},"Das weiß ich, ich sag so, müssen wir vielleicht darüber sprechen, was personenbezogen heißt an der Stelle, ne.",{"text":44195,"start":11245,"end":11292},"Wenn ich wissen will, ob's immer bei demselben User nicht funktioniert, ist das dann schon 'n Personenbezug oder nicht?",{"text":44197,"start":11292,"end":11333},"Also was könnt auch ihr jetzt noch erfassen und wo hört das dann bei euch auf, genau?",54,{"sentences":44200,"speaker":444,"num_words":44211,"start":11333,"end":11702},[44201,44203,44205,44207,44209],{"text":44202,"start":11333,"end":11356},"Das ist tatsächlich immer ein Stretch für uns.",{"text":44204,"start":11359,"end":11499},"Was wir nicht so einfach machen können, ist dann zum Beispiel aus unserem Player jetzt direkt auch da wieder fürs Tracking oder fürs Analytics einen Server API aufzurufen, sondern wir machen das dann entweder indirekt über die, wo bei uns auch in den Logs keine IPs und kein kein User Agent drinstehen beziehungsweise 'n gestripter User Agent.",{"text":44206,"start":11503,"end":11573},"Und darüber können wir dann so was ermitteln wie wie wir beim Podcast sozusagen das Downloads Äquivalent, also Aufrufe, so gut gecleaned, wie's irgendwie geht.",{"text":44208,"start":11573,"end":11607},"Wir können auch serverseitig dann natürlich sehen, wie viel Video Traffic abgerufen wurde.",{"text":44210,"start":11610,"end":11702},"Und wenn's dann darüber hinausgeht, da sind wir jetzt grade dran, dass wir dann ein ein anonymes Signal sozusagen an eine an eine leere Telemetriedatei schicken, wo wir dann über die URL Parameter dranhängen.",137,{"sentences":44213,"speaker":444,"num_words":44183,"start":11702,"end":11881},[44214,44216,44218,44220,44222],{"text":44215,"start":11702,"end":11714},"Jetzt hat ein Play stattgefunden.",{"text":44217,"start":11718,"end":11729},"Jetzt hat ein Passwort stattgefunden.",{"text":44219,"start":11731,"end":11799},"Jetzt sind wir bei 80 Prozent, jetzt sind wir bei 90 Prozent, 100 Prozent abgespielt, auch diese Metriken bereitstellen zu können, aber eben ohne Personenbezug.",{"text":44221,"start":11801,"end":11856},"Und dann kannst Du natürlich nicht so was wie Sessions da sagen oder nicht sagen, bei diesem User ist jetzt dieses Problem aufgetreten.",{"text":44223,"start":11859,"end":11881},"Diese Daten stehen dir dann einfach schlicht nicht zur Verfügung.",{"sentences":44225,"speaker":444,"num_words":44234,"start":11884,"end":12123},[44226,44228,44230,44232],{"text":44227,"start":11884,"end":11980},"Also Du kannst nicht die IP Adresse dann, Du könntest sie Es gibt immer so dieses mit berechtigte Interesse und dann gibt's da irgendwie auch Zeiten und dann wird sagt man irgendwie, 48 Stunden kannste noch.",{"text":44229,"start":11982,"end":11999},"Das hatten wir in den ersten Monaten.",{"text":44231,"start":11999,"end":12046},"Mittlerweile verzichten wir komplett auf die auch auf die IP Adresse in den in den Logs und in den Daten.",{"text":44233,"start":12050,"end":12123},"Schränkt 'n bisschen ein, aber wir versuchen einfach die Finger, so gut es geht oder wir versuchen, wieder komplett vom Person bezogen da anzulassen, so.",88,{"sentences":44236,"speaker":160,"num_words":44245,"start":12123,"end":12371},[44237,44239,44241,44243],{"text":44238,"start":12123,"end":12188},"Nicht Es gibt sozusagen 'n paar Dinge, also so was, wie was vorher gemacht hast, Cookie, ihr setzt einfach explizit das nicht.",{"text":44240,"start":12188,"end":12267},"Dann gibt's aber auch 'n paar Dinge, die ihr bekommen würdet, aber explizit sozusagen filtern müsst, wie IP Adressen, dass sie nicht in Logs landen, wie wie den User Agent.",{"text":44242,"start":12269,"end":12321},"Das heißt, da müsst ihr wirklich aktiv was tun, beim anderen tut ihr's einfach nicht, sozusagen lasst einfach die Finger davon so.",{"text":44244,"start":12321,"end":12371},"Und gibt's außer IP und User Agent noch irgendwas, was ihr, wenn jetzt 'n an euren Server kommt, was ihr noch filtern müsst?",97,{"sentences":44247,"speaker":444,"num_words":44258,"start":12374,"end":12617},[44248,44250,44252,44254,44256],{"text":44249,"start":12374,"end":12391},"Nee, tatsächlich sind's eigentlich die beiden Dinge.",{"text":44251,"start":12395,"end":12475},"Zum Glück nimmt da auch jetzt über auch über die letzten Monate die Möglichkeiten in der Infrastrukturkonfiguration zu, dass man da zum Beispiel die IP Adresse jetzt mittlerweile einfach wegklicken kann bei den.",{"text":44253,"start":12478,"end":12494},"Dann macht, passiert das schon auf Infrastrukturebene.",{"text":44255,"start":12498,"end":12594},"Macht's uns einfacher, müssen wir keinen keinen Listener laufen haben, der die Logs immer sofort auf die IP Adresse reinigt, sondern die sind dann, also kann man eben dann sich schon vorher weg wegkonfigurieren, das ist nice.",{"text":44257,"start":12597,"end":12617},"Aber nee, das sind eigentlich die die beiden Dinge.",93,{"sentences":44260,"speaker":444,"num_words":44271,"start":12617,"end":12938},[44261,44263,44265,44267,44269],{"text":44262,"start":12617,"end":12683},"Alles andere, klar, ne, wenn man wenn man will, könnte man shady Dinge tun und versuchen irgendwie son bisschen versteckt irgendwo im Browser wieder was abzulegen.",{"text":44264,"start":12686,"end":12734},"Dann, keine Ahnung, beim Local Storage guckt weder dann nur jeder dritte Datenschutzbeauftragte nach oder weiß nicht was.",{"text":44266,"start":12734,"end":12768},"Aber also Dinge, die wir nicht tun, aber es gibt natürlich immer Tricks.",{"text":44268,"start":12768,"end":12824},"Wenn man mal so, wenn man mal guckt, wer was wo so ablegt bei sich aufm System, ist das manchmal auch ganz, ganz interessant.",{"text":44270,"start":12827,"end":12938},"Das Einzige, was dann manchmal am Local Storage abgelegt wird im Player, sind, wenn zum Beispiel 'n Nutzer hergeht und in seinen barrierefrei, also in seinen Accessability Einstellungen im Player die Schriftgröße sagt, ja, ich möcht das 'n bisschen größer haben.",122,{"sentences":44273,"speaker":444,"num_words":44282,"start":12938,"end":13048},[44274,44276,44278,44280],{"text":44275,"start":12938,"end":12954},"Dann landet das im Local Storage.",{"text":44277,"start":12958,"end":12997},"Aber ohne ohne, dass das irgendwie an uns geht oder wie er darauf dann Ja.",{"text":44279,"start":12999,"end":13025},"Dann zugreifen und aus, da steht dann halt, 14 p x.",{"text":44281,"start":13025,"end":13048},"Da können wir keinen keinen Bezug draus herstellen.",40,{"sentences":44284,"speaker":160,"num_words":44291,"start":13051,"end":13341},[44285,44287,44289],{"text":44286,"start":13051,"end":13195},"Und vielleicht kannst Du noch mal, weil wir jetzt die Infrastruktur noch gar nicht so ganz zu Ende erzählt haben, vielleicht kannst Du uns da noch mal den noch mal die Zusammenfassung geben, weil Du meinst, also wir haben verstanden, okay, S3, dann habt ihr 'n CDN da vorne dran, das ist ja eigentlich eine Infrastruktur eurer Kunden.",{"text":44288,"start":13195,"end":13254},"Da hast Du aber auch von 'nem Player in der Website gesprochen, der dann eingebunden werden kann, der wiederum mit euren Servern kommuniziert.",{"text":44290,"start":13254,"end":13341},"Also vielleicht kannst Du uns da noch mal die Komponenten erklären oder was da genau, wo eigentlich dieser, von dem ihr jetzt IP Adresse und User Agent wegstript, was genau dieser oder wo der landet so?",117,{"sentences":44293,"speaker":444,"num_words":44304,"start":13341,"end":13673},[44294,44296,44298,44300,44302],{"text":44295,"start":13341,"end":13387},"Genau, also es ist alles das liegt in dieser in dieser Kette, den den die dem Kunden zugeordnet ist.",{"text":44297,"start":13387,"end":13463},"Also, da liegen die Videoassets drin, da liegen die Thumbnails drin, die man hochlädt, da liegen die Untertiteldateien drin, die entweder generiert werden oder hochgeladen werden.",{"text":44299,"start":13466,"end":13512},"Und der Player liegt alles in diesem Speicher und davor liegt der CDN Endpunkt, der aus diesem Speicher ausspielt.",{"text":44301,"start":13515,"end":13638},"So, dann machen wir da eine Menge Access Rights Themen, dass wir wirklich, wenn ein Video gepublisht wird, auf Dateiebene Access Rights gegeben werden, damit die Datei von außen zugegriffen werden kann oder eben nicht, weil wir da ja auch wieder nicht mit Server Middleware sprechen.",{"text":44303,"start":13638,"end":13673},"Das heißt, es gibt diesen dieses, der Player spricht nicht mit 'nem Server von uns.",125,{"sentences":44306,"speaker":444,"num_words":44009,"start":13673,"end":13830},[44307,44309],{"text":44308,"start":13673,"end":13695},"Der Videoplayer spricht nur mit diesem statischen Speicher.",{"text":44310,"start":13699,"end":13830},"Deswegen gibt es dann auch zum Beispiel zu den zu den Videos, zu jedem Video gibt es dann Data Json, damit nicht unsere API angefragt werden muss, wenn irgendwas gemacht wird, sondern diese statische Datei gelesen wird, die wir von hinten sozusagen dann aktualisieren, sobald 'n Nutzer den Titel 1 Video Videos ändert.",{"sentences":44312,"speaker":160,"num_words":44315,"start":13830,"end":13937},[44313],{"text":44314,"start":13830,"end":13937},"Das heißt aber eigentlich, lernen diese Logs und so was, wenn Du sprichst, wo irgendwie IP Adresse und dann auch User Engine drin, dann wird ja eigentlich in der Infrastruktur des eures Kunden und jetzt immer die Frage, warum muss das Nee, nee,",43,{"sentences":44317,"speaker":444,"num_words":444,"start":13937,"end":13943},[44318],{"text":44319,"start":13937,"end":13943},"nee, genau.",{"sentences":44321,"speaker":181,"num_words":44324,"start":13945,"end":13956},[44322],{"text":44323,"start":13945,"end":13956},"In der Infrastruktur von ABS.",5,{"sentences":44326,"speaker":444,"num_words":43631,"start":13960,"end":14039},[44327,44329,44331],{"text":44328,"start":13960,"end":13973},"Genau, genau und in unserer Infrastruktur.",{"text":44330,"start":13976,"end":14025},"Das heißt, wir wir vermieten dann sozusagen diese Infrastruktur an den Kunden als Service, aber die ist ja in unserem Zugriff.",{"text":44332,"start":14028,"end":14039},"Also die liegt nicht im Account.",{"sentences":44334,"speaker":160,"num_words":44341,"start":14043,"end":14293},[44335,44337,44339],{"text":44336,"start":14043,"end":14169},"Nämlich konnte, weil theoretisch, wenn ich meinen eigenes Service auf ABS hoste und so was unter IP Adressen drin sind, dann bin ich ja erst mal noch nicht verpflichtet, dafür irgendwie einen einen Content Banner zu zeigen, so wenn's meiner wenn's mein eigener Service ist, den ich bei ABS hostet.",{"text":44338,"start":14169,"end":14194},"Deswegen war der Punkt, den ich nicht so ganz verstanden hatte.",{"text":44340,"start":14194,"end":14293},"Wenn es, also er liegt, weil weil aber dieser Service bei euch liegen, sie werden vermietet an an den Kunden, aber ihr theoretisch den Zugriff darauf habt, dass es sozusagen der, die Finesse Type das tun müsstet.",98,{"sentences":44343,"speaker":444,"num_words":43687,"start":14296,"end":14495},[44344,44346,44348,44350],{"text":44345,"start":14296,"end":14329},"Genau, deswegen sind wir ja auch irgendwie 'n Subprozessor in dieser in dieser Kette.",{"text":44347,"start":14329,"end":14365},"Aber deswegen muss man halt gucken, dass halt diese Daten gar nicht gar nicht anfallen.",{"text":44349,"start":14365,"end":14451},"Aber es ist tatsächlich immer auch gar nicht so leicht zu definieren und da tun sich auch irgendwie dann die die Datenschutzbeauftragten schwer, weil für dein Webhosting, das ist dann ja auch deins.",{"text":44351,"start":14454,"end":14495},"Und letztendlich machen wir auch nichts anderes als sozusagen statisches Datehhosting nach außen dieser Videos anzubieten.",{"sentences":44353,"speaker":181,"num_words":44364,"start":14498,"end":14783},[44354,44356,44358,44360,44362],{"text":44355,"start":14498,"end":14617},"Aber wie ist es denn, wenn ihr am Ende jetzt ja trotzdem Infrastruktur von 'nem Hyperscale nutzt, egal ob das jetzt bei AWS oder bei Google oder sonst irgendwo liegt, ne, und ihr vielleicht jetzt nicht in eurem Cloud Foundation Template irgendwie IP Adressen mitlockt oder so was, ja.",{"text":44357,"start":14620,"end":14634},"Aber AWS kann es ja trotzdem machen.",{"text":44359,"start":14634,"end":14673},"Weil ich mein, am Ende landen diese in AWS Infrastruktur oder bei Google oder sonst irgendwo, ne.",{"text":44361,"start":14673,"end":14764},"Und die haben ja bestimmt trotzdem Interesse, das irgendwie mitzuloggen, weil sie am Ende, weiß nicht, DDoS Protection machen müssen oder also legitimes Interesse jetzt ab ganz ab von Marketing und so was alles, ja.",{"text":44363,"start":14764,"end":14783},"Einfach nur für den Betrieb von der Plattform.",116,{"sentences":44366,"speaker":181,"num_words":43651,"start":14786,"end":14811},[44367],{"text":44368,"start":14786,"end":14811},"Das ist dann aber für euch an der Stelle kein Beinbruch?",{"sentences":44370,"speaker":444,"num_words":43720,"start":14815,"end":14851},[44371,44373],{"text":44372,"start":14815,"end":14831},"Du kannst Du ja nichts dran machen.",{"text":44374,"start":14831,"end":14851},"Also dazwischen ist es Ja, ja, Du",{"sentences":44376,"speaker":181,"num_words":43692,"start":14851,"end":14919},[44377,44379,44381],{"text":44378,"start":14851,"end":14880},"musst trotzdem auch nicht eure Kunden dann drauf hinweisen oder so.",{"text":44380,"start":14880,"end":14912},"Also das alleine würde jetzt den den Cookie Banner zum Beispiel noch nicht triggern.",{"text":44382,"start":14912,"end":14919},"Genau, genau.",{"sentences":44384,"speaker":444,"num_words":444,"start":14919,"end":14925},[44385],{"text":44386,"start":14919,"end":14925},"Aber das",{"sentences":44388,"speaker":160,"num_words":43644,"start":14925,"end":14966},[44389],{"text":44390,"start":14925,"end":14966},"ist die gleiche Problematik, die wir ja auch haben, die hat ja jeder, wenn Du Ja,",{"sentences":44392,"speaker":181,"num_words":44397,"start":14966,"end":15015},[44393,44395],{"text":44394,"start":14966,"end":14986},"weil wir haben ja auch 'n Cookie Banner.",{"text":44396,"start":14986,"end":15015},"Uns ist ja sozusagen egal, weil wir können ja alles miteinander reinschmeißen.",20,{"sentences":44399,"speaker":160,"num_words":44410,"start":15019,"end":15218},[44400,44402,44404,44406,44408],{"text":44401,"start":15019,"end":15055},"Ja, aber erst mal nicht, deswegen nur weil wir bei Google des Google das Ganze hosten.",{"text":44403,"start":15055,"end":15121},"Wenn wir jetzt keine Excellen Service haben, nur weil wir unseren Service hosten, das sind ja wirklich die Daten, die sozusagen auch offiziell bei uns liegen.",{"text":44405,"start":15121,"end":15176},"Was da drin liegt, ist, gehört sozusagen uns und das wird nicht betrachtet, wie wir schicken das einen an einen dritten Dienstleister.",{"text":44407,"start":15176,"end":15213},"So, wir haben diesen Cookie Banner ja drin wegen anderen Services, wir dann nutzen können.",{"text":44409,"start":15213,"end":15218},"Nee, ich",81,{"sentences":44412,"speaker":181,"num_words":44183,"start":15218,"end":15390},[44413,44415,44417,44418,44420],{"text":44414,"start":15218,"end":15234},"glaub, ich glaub, Du hast mich verstanden.",{"text":44416,"start":15234,"end":15357},"Es geht nicht darum, dass jetzt zum Beispiel bei uns die die Profilbilder bei Google liegen und deshalb quasi Google Fotos von uns hat, sondern in dem Moment, wo bei unserem Spiel auf so ein Profilbild zugreifen wird, landet ja die IP Adresse von dem Zuggreifenden trotzdem bei Google.",{"text":318,"start":15357,"end":15360},{"text":44419,"start":15360,"end":15381},"Ist egal, ob wir die mitprotokollieren oder nicht.",{"text":44421,"start":15381,"end":15390},"Aber wenn wir",{"sentences":44423,"speaker":160,"num_words":44430,"start":15390,"end":15609},[44424,44426,44428],{"text":44425,"start":15390,"end":15438},"nur Google als Service drin hätten, bräuchten wir keinen Cookie Banner dafür, weil wir hosten ja unsere Infrastruktur bei Google.",{"text":44427,"start":15438,"end":15578},"Wir haben diese Cookie Banner drin wegen anderen Services, nicht weil wir auf Google hosten und deswegen meine ich nur, diese Problematik hat man ja hat ja jeder, der da hostet, sonst wäre ja nur, weil ich, wenn ich meine, sobald ich meine Infrastruktur nicht selbst hoste, muss ich etwas anzeigen und das ist ja nicht die Welt da draußen.",{"text":44429,"start":15578,"end":15609},"So deswegen würde ich sagen, das ist das gleiche Beispiel wie bei uns auch.",94,{"sentences":44432,"speaker":444,"num_words":43697,"start":15611,"end":15620},[44433],{"text":44434,"start":15611,"end":15620},"Du sagst, das ist",{"sentences":44436,"speaker":181,"num_words":44441,"start":15620,"end":15759},[44437,44439],{"text":44438,"start":15620,"end":15688},"nicht die Welt da draußen, aber für mich war das grade mit 'nem Fragezeichen, weil also gefühlt hat ja de facto jeder son Cookie Banner da draußen, ja.",{"text":44440,"start":15690,"end":15759},"Und was da genau jetzt der ausschlaggebende Grund ist, warum man das initial mal eingeführt hat, das weiß ja wahrscheinlich heute, also wissen die Allerwenigsten noch so, oder?",56,{"sentences":44443,"speaker":444,"num_words":44453,"start":15762,"end":15988},[44444,44445,44447,44449,44451],{"text":15766,"start":15762,"end":15763},{"text":44446,"start":15763,"end":15825},"Aber es gibt und es gab oder gibt ja auch tatsächlich dieser dieser Unterhaltung, ist sozusagen die Präsenz 1 Webseite grundsätzlich eigentlich konsenpflichtig?",{"text":44448,"start":15828,"end":15852},"Also musst Du und dann wird's natürlich irgendwie auch absurd.",{"text":44450,"start":15855,"end":15898},"Das ist dann so wie dieses, Du kaufst dir 'n Kaffee und da steht drauf, Achtung, heiß.",{"text":44452,"start":15902,"end":15988},"Denkst Du, ja, danke Sherlock dafür, weil Und es gibt Leute, die die sehen das vielleicht so, es gibt die, also es gibt's jetzt aber nicht her, es sind konsenfreie Webseiten möglich.",83,{"sentences":44455,"speaker":444,"num_words":44465,"start":15988,"end":16214},[44456,44458,44460,44462,44463],{"text":44457,"start":15988,"end":16040},"Aber prinzipiell funktioniert ja so nun mal das Web, dass jetzt zumindest die IP Adresse bei jedem Request mitgeschickt wird.",{"text":44459,"start":16040,"end":16103},"Dann kannst Du 'n VPN nutzen, dann geht's bis zum VPN, danach ist es eine andere, aber selbst bis zum VPN geht dann deine IP Adresse.",{"text":44461,"start":16103,"end":16154},"Das heißt, dann hat sie nicht Google, AWS, die Telekom, Vodafone, die Netzbetreiber, die haben sie sowieso.",{"text":5808,"start":16157,"end":16158},{"text":44464,"start":16158,"end":16214},"Aber dann hat sie halt deinen VPN Betreiber und brauchst Du den Also ohne die IP Adresse funktioniert das Internet halt nicht.",86,{"sentences":44467,"speaker":444,"num_words":43921,"start":16214,"end":16329},[44468,44470],{"text":44469,"start":16214,"end":16282},"Und deswegen ist, glaub ich, auch son bisschen dieses IP Adressen Thema in diesem Bereich des berechtigten Interesses etwas lockerer gehandhabt, weil's glaub ich sonst.",{"text":44471,"start":16282,"end":16329},"Also dann kannst Du den Laden zumachen, wenn dann dann dann kann sie nichts mehr vernünftig benutzen.",{"sentences":44473,"speaker":181,"num_words":44476,"start":16332,"end":16359},[44474],{"text":44475,"start":16332,"end":16359},"Euren Infrastrukturanbieter nicht als irgendwie Subprocessor ausweisen oder so?",9,{"sentences":44478,"speaker":444,"num_words":44025,"start":16359,"end":16574},[44479,44481,44482,44484,44486],{"text":44480,"start":16359,"end":16374},"Doch, doch, natürlich, natürlich.",{"text":16378,"start":16374,"end":16377},{"text":44483,"start":16377,"end":16392},"Ja, das das ist der Fall.",{"text":44485,"start":16392,"end":16442},"Also Du kannst auch mit uns kriegst son AVV, wo dann genau drinsteht, wo unsere Daten liegen, also Subprocessor.",{"text":44487,"start":16446,"end":16574},"Und oft ist es ja auch so, wenn wenn sozusagen Webhosting an sich auch von HTML Dateien, was auch immer so, ne, von deiner eigenen Webseite sozusagen konsenspflicht wäre, dann hättest Du auf jeder Webseite hinterher 'n Content Banner, weil wer betreibt ja noch seine Server so wirklich selbst selbst?",{"sentences":44489,"speaker":444,"num_words":44492,"start":16578,"end":16625},[44490],{"text":44491,"start":16578,"end":16625},"Und dann ist ja vielleicht der, dann ist der Netzanschluss der Fall, dann ist es, ne, dann ist es die Telekom",21,{"sentences":44494,"speaker":181,"num_words":44503,"start":16628,"end":16826},[44495,44497,44499,44501],{"text":44496,"start":16628,"end":16641},"Aber Du wirst lachen.",{"text":44498,"start":16644,"end":16695},"Also meine Webseite liegt bei GitHub oder GitLab, weil ich geizig bin und die das für mich umsonst hosten so.",{"text":44500,"start":16695,"end":16791},"Und als das das, als sie irgendwann mal gerefactet hab und so bla, da kamen Leute auf mich zu haben, so, ja, aber Du musst ja darauf hinweisen, dass das irgendwie auf auf GitHub Infrastruktur liegt und so.",{"text":44502,"start":16791,"end":16826},"Also es gibt Leute, die sind son bisschen Ja, gut, weil das nur noch paranoide.",77,{"sentences":44505,"speaker":160,"num_words":43921,"start":16830,"end":16945},[44506,44508,44510],{"text":44507,"start":16830,"end":16882},"Zwischen Datenschutzerklärung, wo Du's irgendwie reinschreibst und der Unterschied, ob das 'n ob Du 'n Content dafür brauchst.",{"text":44509,"start":16882,"end":16914},"Also das ist ja dann, Du musst trotzdem reinschreiben, wo das Ganze liegt.",{"text":44511,"start":16914,"end":16945},"Eine Datenschutzerklärung brauchst Du, aber eben nicht den Content dafür einholen.",{"sentences":44513,"speaker":444,"num_words":43748,"start":16945,"end":17180},[44514,44516,44518],{"text":44515,"start":16945,"end":16999},"Ja, da ist Datenschutzerklärung wichtig und da gehören auch wir rein und dann, ne, gibt's wieder da Subprozessoren, Subprozessoren, Subprozessoren.",{"text":44517,"start":17002,"end":17169},"Und dann guckt man in die Subprozessorliste von den Hyperscellern oder auch von anderen Hostern auch, whatever, dann ist die auch wieder lang bis hin zum irgendwie, weiß ich nicht, Rechenzentrumsbetreiber, der der oft auch noch hintersteht, weil der auch oft dann die Rechenzentren an sich, jetzt ist vielleicht bei den Hyperskellern anders, aber die sind dann auch oft ausgelagert und irgendwo eingemietet.",{"text":44519,"start":17173,"end":17180},"Und ja, also das",{"sentences":44521,"speaker":160,"num_words":44528,"start":17182,"end":17353},[44522,44524,44526],{"text":44523,"start":17182,"end":17255},"Aber Ich finde dieses Thema auch so, ich hab die auch 'n paar kleinere Bilder zu entwickeln, unter anderem die für die Praxis von meiner von meiner Frau.",{"text":44525,"start":17255,"end":17347},"Und da ist auch so, also ich, meiner Meinung nach bin ich fein damit, dass ich dann nur eine Datenschutzerklärung hab und keinerlei Content so, aber ist halt auch so, ich hab das jetzt auch noch nie.",{"text":44527,"start":17347,"end":17353},"Oh, jetzt",67,{"sentences":44530,"speaker":181,"num_words":43899,"start":17353,"end":17388},[44531],{"text":44532,"start":17353,"end":17388},"hast Du's hier laut gesagt, Fabi, jetzt gehen alle auf die Webseite und",{"sentences":44534,"speaker":160,"num_words":44544,"start":17390,"end":17546},[44535,44537,44538,44540,44542],{"text":44536,"start":17390,"end":17398},"Ja, genau, morgen.",{"text":17405,"start":17402,"end":17403},{"text":44539,"start":17408,"end":17429},"Feedback, wenn ihr wenn ihr das anders seht.",{"text":44541,"start":17429,"end":17513},"Also ich sag jetzt, wenn ihr müsst schon in die Arbeit reinstecken, welche Seite das ist und dann gebt mal gerne Feedback, ob ihr denkt, dass ich da was falsch mache.",{"text":44543,"start":17513,"end":17546},"Aber dann mich nicht gern gerne nirgendwo anschwätzt, sondern mir Bescheid geben.",55,{"sentences":44546,"speaker":444,"num_words":44556,"start":17549,"end":18018},[44547,44548,44550,44552,44554],{"text":5808,"start":17549,"end":17550},{"text":44549,"start":17550,"end":17590},"Weil das ist ja auch so das Ding, man, also man sollte es schon vernünftig machen.",{"text":44551,"start":17590,"end":17641},"Ich denk halt einfach für die meisten Dinge, grade Drittanbieter brauchen gar nicht in diesem Umfang immer diese personenbezogenen Daten.",{"text":44553,"start":17641,"end":17708},"Klar, auch Marketer sind natürlich drauf aus, mehr über ihre Zielgruppe zu lernen, immer mehr zu wissen und man braucht irgendwie auch 'n Web Analytics, logisch.",{"text":44555,"start":17708,"end":18018},"Menschen ja, ich mein, wir wollen auch unser Produkt natürlich irgendwie unters unters Volk bringen logischerweise, aber da zumindest zu gucken, was gibt es denn für Optionen, die halt einfach ohne diesen Zusatzbezug auskommen, halt am Ende, wo's ja uns drum geht, es irgendwie das Web wieder benutzbarer zu machen, eben vielleicht mal auf einen Pfad zu kommen, wo, wenn jemand dann konsenfrei Analytiktool hat, 'n konsenfreies Videohosting und was auch immer man sonst noch so gerne hat, 'n konsenfreies Capture, all diese Dinge sind ja alle sonst konsenpflichtig, konsenfreies Kartentool für die für die Kontaktseite, dass man mal wieder auf eine Webseite geht und nicht erst diese Tapete wegklicken muss, die einem halt da entgegengeschmissen wird.",180,{"sentences":44558,"speaker":181,"num_words":44569,"start":18020,"end":18198},[44559,44561,44563,44565,44567],{"text":44560,"start":18020,"end":18059},"Jetzt ist die die Wünsche von euren Kunden und den den Marketer, so ist ja das eine.",{"text":44562,"start":18062,"end":18094},"Eure Entwickler oder ihr selbst seid ja auch erst mal die erste Zielgruppe sozusagen davon.",{"text":44564,"start":18097,"end":18157},"Wie oft habt ihr denn eine Idee für und denkt euch so, oh, das wär ja voll gut, wenn wir das bauen können.",{"text":44566,"start":18157,"end":18182},"Und dann merkt ihr, ah, es geht aber gar nicht.",{"text":44568,"start":18182,"end":18198},"Weil wir wollen ja contentfrei sein.",71,{"sentences":44571,"speaker":444,"num_words":44582,"start":18200,"end":18394},[44572,44574,44576,44578,44580],{"text":44573,"start":18200,"end":18274},"Das beste Beispiel ist wahrscheinlich seit 'nem paar Monaten haben wir jetzt auch im im sozusagen mittlerweile Livestream auch auf als Funktion mit drin unter derselben Prämisse.",{"text":44575,"start":18277,"end":18305},"Und da kommt natürlich von Kunden immer die Frage, gibt's 'n Chat?",{"text":44577,"start":18305,"end":18323},"Gibt's irgendwie oder also, wie soll's sagen?",{"text":44579,"start":18323,"end":18329},"Gibt's Interaktionsfunktionalität?",{"text":44581,"start":18333,"end":18394},"Und da sind wir mal an dem Punkt, wo wir doch wo wir noch keinen Hebel haben, wo wir sagen, ja, das das können wir mit anbieten.",75,{"sentences":44584,"speaker":444,"num_words":44587,"start":18397,"end":18457},[44585],{"text":44586,"start":18397,"end":18457},"Du könntest es vielleicht irgendwie über über Umwege machen, vollkommen unkontrolliert, ohne dass sich die Leute irgendwie ausweisen in Anführungsstrichen, aber eigentlich",22,{"sentences":44589,"speaker":181,"num_words":43639,"start":18459,"end":18474},[44590],{"text":44591,"start":18459,"end":18474},"Liegt immer nach 'ner guten Idee.",{"sentences":44593,"speaker":444,"num_words":44604,"start":18474,"end":18606},[44594,44596,44598,44600,44602],{"text":44595,"start":18474,"end":18484},"Ja, ja, genau.",{"text":44597,"start":18486,"end":18524},"Sozusagen, eigentlich würd's dir mindestens mal 'n Namensfeld haben und vielleicht eine E-Mail-Adresse.",{"text":44599,"start":18528,"end":18569},"Vielleicht willst Du's sogar irgendwie moderieren können und dann dann bist Du grade 'n bisschen aufgeschmissen.",{"text":44601,"start":18573,"end":18592},"Das das können wir dann so nicht anbieten grade.",{"text":44603,"start":18595,"end":18606},"Und das ist noch nicht gelöst.",47,{"sentences":44606,"speaker":444,"num_words":44476,"start":18610,"end":18628},[44607],{"text":44608,"start":18610,"end":18628},"Ja, ist so, das ist zum Beispiel son Thema.",{"sentences":44610,"speaker":160,"num_words":44617,"start":18630,"end":18894},[44611,44613,44615],{"text":44612,"start":18630,"end":18786},"Aber ist das nicht am Ende auch, also seid ihr dann wirklich so, jetzt sind wir eher in Produktdiskussionen drin so, dass ihr, theoretisch sind's ja Funktionalitäten, wenn sind's ja Funktionalitäten, wenn dann irgendwelche kommen, wo man sagt, hey, die gehen halt einfach nicht, weil es eben dafür braucht's, man will wissen, welche Person es ist, weil es für die Funktionalität notwendig ist so.",{"text":44614,"start":18789,"end":18807},"Ist das, schließt es einfach kategorisch aus.",{"text":44616,"start":18807,"end":18894},"So sagt ihr, gut, vielleicht wird das Produkt auch insofern dabei, dass es halt bestimmte Bereiche gibt, in denen dann dieses Privacy First eben nicht mehr gilt so und was einfach ganz klar getrennt ist.",106,{"sentences":44619,"speaker":444,"num_words":44465,"start":18894,"end":19116},[44620,44622,44624,44626,44628],{"text":44621,"start":18894,"end":18908},"Nee, das kategorisch ausgeschlossen hat.",{"text":44623,"start":18908,"end":19016},"Also das schließen wir wirklich kategorisch aus, weil wir wollen und das ist ja sehr, sehr, sehr wichtig, wir wollen das das Commitment dazu, dass unsere Lösung consentfrei ist, weil eben keine Personen mit sogenannten Daten von von euren Websitebesuchern gesammelt werden.",{"text":44625,"start":19018,"end":19026},"Und wie sagt man?",{"text":44627,"start":19029,"end":19054},"Ist das, glaube ich, wenn man damit irgendwie mal dann anfängt.",{"text":44629,"start":19057,"end":19116},"Was wir versuchen, ist eher die, sag mal, die Interation einfacher zu machen oder es einfach zu machen, vielleicht eigene Tools oder anderes anzudocken.",{"sentences":44631,"speaker":444,"num_words":44640,"start":19116,"end":19384},[44632,44634,44636,44638],{"text":44633,"start":19116,"end":19200},"Ja, was Script API für den für den Player, wo man draufgehen kann, wo man listen kann, was passiert, vielleicht selbst entscheiden kann, ob 'n Formular hochploppt am Ende von 'nem Video.",{"text":44635,"start":19203,"end":19248},"Auch das ist son Thema, Leads Leads sammeln in Videos, gibt's ja explizit Anbieter für, die das sozusagen anbieten.",{"text":44637,"start":19251,"end":19308},"Irgendwie Gated Video Content, vorher musst Du dann irgendwie E-Mail-Adresse und irgendwas angeben und Name und dann siehst Du das Video.",{"text":44639,"start":19310,"end":19384},"Nein, so das Aber was wir machen wollen, ist die Möglichkeit geben, eventuell was Eigenes obendrauf zu setzen, aber so, dass wir die Finger davon lassen können, ja.",100,{"sentences":44642,"speaker":181,"num_words":44161,"start":19386,"end":19687},[44643,44645,44647,44649,44651],{"text":44644,"start":19386,"end":19427},"Ich hab eine doofe Zwischenfrage, weil Fabi grade gefragt hat, ob irgendwo dieses seine Grenze hat.",{"text":44646,"start":19427,"end":19477},"Und nur das Wording hier einmal grade zu ziehen, was versteht ihr unter und was versteht ihr unter concentfrei?",{"text":44648,"start":19481,"end":19523},"Weil man könnt ja auch einen Chat irgendwie, ne, datensparsamen, konservativ irgendwie umsetzen so, ja.",{"text":44650,"start":19523,"end":19570},"Dann wäre halt nur nicht mehr consentfrei, weil ihr halt dann diese Daten verarbeiten müsst am Ende des Tages, ja.",{"text":44652,"start":19570,"end":19687},"Aber hab ich das richtig verstanden, dass also dass Content war ja eigentlich das Ding ist, was für euch das Ausschlaggebende ist und nicht unbedingt der der Privacy Faktor, weil ihr seid am glücklichsten damit, wenn Privacy quasi gar nicht erst notwendig ist, weil die Daten nicht da sind.",{"sentences":44654,"speaker":444,"num_words":43791,"start":19690,"end":19896},[44655,44656,44658,44660],{"text":318,"start":19690,"end":19691},{"text":44657,"start":19691,"end":19773},"Und jetzt sag ich mal, Privacy first ist der der Marketingbegriff, unter dem man dies diese Kategorie von von Tools zusammenfassen würde wahrscheinlich, die sich dem selbst so auferlegt haben.",{"text":44659,"start":19773,"end":19824},"Aber das ist kein belastbarer Begriff in dem Sinne, sondern es ist 'n, auch 'n Marketing Buzzword am Ende wahrscheinlich.",{"text":44661,"start":19827,"end":19896},"Aber wenn Du dann irgendwie so googles, dann heißt das nämlich Privacy First Web Analytics, Privacy First Videohosting, so, das irgendwie ein selbstauferwähltes auferlegtes Marketinglabel.",{"sentences":44663,"speaker":181,"num_words":44528,"start":19900,"end":20067},[44664,44666,44668],{"text":44665,"start":19900,"end":19928},"Und ihr habt das jetzt ja für Video quasi euch euch darauf spezialisiert.",{"text":44667,"start":19931,"end":19965},"Ist das eine besonders schwere oder eine besonders leichte Domäne in dem Kontext?",{"text":44669,"start":19965,"end":20067},"Oder wär jetzt, wenn ich jetzt sagen würde, ich will contentfreies Podcasting oder ein Privacy first CMS oder was es halt noch so alles an an gängigen Plattformen quasi da draußen gibt, wäre irgendwas davon besonders leicht oder besonders schwer umzusetzen?",{"sentences":44671,"speaker":444,"num_words":44681,"start":20070,"end":20514},[44672,44674,44676,44678,44679],{"text":44673,"start":20070,"end":20229},"Also zum Thema consent freie Podcast hatten wir schon 'n paar Anfragen, weil das das eine ist ja, 'n Podcast an sich wird dann in der App gehört, gibt's ja auch keinen expliziten Content, wenn jetzt, weiß nicht, auf Apple gibt's dann oder auf iOS hast Du dann mittlerweile diesen sehr klaren App Tracking ablehnen Banner, der dann kommt.",{"text":44675,"start":20229,"end":20345},"Ich weiß gar nicht, wie es auf Android geregelt ist, aber das Thema wird ja immer dann oder kommt dann auf, wenn's eben drum geht, dass Du irgendwo auf 'ner auf 'ner Webseite irgendwas einbetttest oder auf oder auf 'ner Plattform, wo dann da an 'ner Dritte wiederum gehen.",{"text":44677,"start":20345,"end":20478},"Und da hatten wir dann zum Beispiel auch schon das Thema, kann ich für euch auch 'n Podcast hochladen, wenn ich den bei mir auf der Webseite einbetten will, weil der Podcastplayer, auch von irgendwie diversen deutschen Podcast Toastern, die haben dann 2 im Bett Codes auch, aber die sind auch nicht contentfrei.",{"text":5808,"start":20482,"end":20483},{"text":44680,"start":20486,"end":20514},"Und so, da sind wir jetzt auch grad 'n bisschen dran am rumdenken.",175,{"sentences":44683,"speaker":444,"num_words":44045,"start":20518,"end":20593},[44684],{"text":44685,"start":20518,"end":20593},"Kann sein, dass es demnächst auch irgendwie noch 'n Audio only Upload gibt, ohne dass wir jetzt Podcasthoster werden, sondern eher in dem Podcast Hosting bleibt bei den Podcast Hostern.",{"sentences":44687,"speaker":181,"num_words":44492,"start":20597,"end":20654},[44688],{"text":44689,"start":20597,"end":20654},"Das müsste quasi meinen meinen RSS Feed selber irgendwo anbieten, aber ich könnte euch quasi als CDN benutzen für die Auslieferung.",{"sentences":44691,"speaker":444,"num_words":44698,"start":20654,"end":20772},[44692,44694,44696],{"text":44693,"start":20654,"end":20706},"Ja und dann so das mal gucken, ob das und wie irgendwie passiert, aber tatsächlich kommt die Frage immer mal wieder von Kunden.",{"text":44695,"start":20708,"end":20744},"Bei Content Management Systemen weiß ich jetzt nicht, ist ja 'n reines Backend Thema.",{"text":44697,"start":20744,"end":20772},"Ich glaub, das da stellt sich die Frage nicht so nicht so wirklich.",50,{"sentences":44700,"speaker":181,"num_words":44698,"start":20775,"end":20901},[44701,44703,44705],{"text":44702,"start":20775,"end":20788},"Na ja, weiß ich gar nicht.",{"text":44704,"start":20788,"end":20821},"Also es gibt ja, also wieso ist das 'n reines 'n reines Backend Thema?",{"text":44706,"start":20821,"end":20901},"Auch wenn ich jetzt eine mittelgroße Zeitung bin und 'n CMS betreibt, dann wird ja jedes Bild oder so bei jedem Seitenaufruf wird ja geladen aus meiner Infrastruktur oder so.",{"sentences":44708,"speaker":444,"num_words":44715,"start":20901,"end":20945},[44709,44711,44713],{"text":44710,"start":20901,"end":20918},"Aber Du bist ja die erste Partei.",{"text":44712,"start":20918,"end":20932},"Du bist ja die First Party.",{"text":44714,"start":20932,"end":20945},"Also das sind ja deine Bilder.",19,{"sentences":44717,"speaker":181,"num_words":43899,"start":20948,"end":20980},[44718],{"text":44719,"start":20948,"end":20980},"Ja, je nachdem, wo sie halt dann liegen und so auch wieder, ne.",{"sentences":44721,"speaker":444,"num_words":43817,"start":20980,"end":21279},[44722,44724,44726,44728],{"text":44723,"start":20980,"end":21064},"Da sind wir wieder beim Sentintümer wie vorhin, ist das dann schon Datenübermittlung an jemand Dritten laut der Definition und beim Content nicht, weil's dann, weil Du die erste Partei bist.",{"text":44725,"start":21066,"end":21103},"Auch da kann man natürlich zum Thema, was bedeutet denn First Party und Third Party?",{"text":44727,"start":21103,"end":21270},"Wir bieten jetzt unseren Kunden zum Beispiel auch an, im Self Service eine eigene Domain zu connecten, damit das nicht unter, ne, irgendwie wie jetzt Youtube dot com oder so was kommt oder eben egnite Punkt so und so oder jetzt auch selbst unsere generische Domain, die mit Kundenname Punkt eu Video CDN Punkt com ist, sondern dass Du dann auch deine Videos Punkt Programmier Punkt Bar connecten kannst.",{"text":44729,"start":21270,"end":21279},"Und dann Warum",{"sentences":44731,"speaker":181,"num_words":44734,"start":21279,"end":21287},[44732],{"text":44733,"start":21279,"end":21287},"will ich das?",3,{"sentences":44736,"speaker":444,"num_words":43753,"start":21290,"end":21351},[44737,44739],{"text":44738,"start":21290,"end":21329},"Weil es dann selbst auf Network Traffic Ebene nicht mehr differenzierbar ist von deiner Domain.",{"text":44740,"start":21329,"end":21351},"Das ist dann sozusagen auf der Domain Ebene First Party.",{"sentences":44742,"speaker":181,"num_words":44749,"start":21353,"end":21451},[44743,44745,44747],{"text":44744,"start":21353,"end":21372},"Aber aber für wen ist das ausschlaggebendes Kriterium?",{"text":44746,"start":21375,"end":21438},"Also wenn ich jetzt wieder bei dem Phantasialand Beispiel bleibe, ja, also ich glaub den allerwenigsten Phantasialand Webseitenbesuchern ist es wichtig, wo das herkommt.",{"text":44748,"start":21438,"end":21451},"Für wen ist das aber wichtig?",38,{"sentences":44751,"speaker":444,"num_words":44754,"start":21451,"end":21511},[44752],{"text":44753,"start":21451,"end":21511},"Ja, für den für den, der die die Seite durchsucht und guckt, was ist denn da so für 'n Tradeparty Traffic irgendwie drauf.",23,{"sentences":44756,"speaker":181,"num_words":444,"start":21511,"end":21518},[44757],{"text":44758,"start":21511,"end":21518},"Ah, okay.",{"sentences":44760,"speaker":444,"num_words":43804,"start":21518,"end":21665},[44761,44763,44765],{"text":44762,"start":21518,"end":21526},"Das ist so.",{"text":44764,"start":21528,"end":21590},"Und wir haben auch Kunden tatsächlich, die, also man kann nicht nur die M-Mails bei uns machen, sondern Du kannst auch einfach eine Video URL teilen.",{"text":44766,"start":21590,"end":21665},"Also wenn ich dir jetzt 'n Video schicken will zum Angucken, wie Du das auf Youtube und wem auch kannst, kann ich dir, ne, Über die URL schicken.",{"sentences":44768,"speaker":181,"num_words":43639,"start":21668,"end":21683},[44769],{"text":44770,"start":21668,"end":21683},"Direkt zur MP4 Datei irgendwie das",{"sentences":44772,"speaker":444,"num_words":44783,"start":21686,"end":21811},[44773,44775,44777,44779,44781],{"text":44774,"start":21686,"end":21700},"Ja, oder direkt zu dem Player.",{"text":44776,"start":21700,"end":21739},"Also wirklich dann auch der Player mit dem mit dem Video und dann hast Du deine eigene Domain.",{"text":44778,"start":21739,"end":21764},"Das ist wie, wenn Du 'n Ding von dir selbst verschickst.",{"text":44780,"start":21764,"end":21792},"Ist ja schöner dann, als wenn's jemand Drittes ist.",{"text":44782,"start":21792,"end":21811},"Aber das hat so dann alles natürlich seine Ebenen.",53,{"sentences":44785,"speaker":444,"num_words":44101,"start":21811,"end":21926},[44786,44788,44789],{"text":44787,"start":21811,"end":21913},"Wenn Du jetzt deine deine Bilder Assets übern CDN ausspielst, vielleicht noch mal separat von deiner von deiner eigentlichen Website, connectest ja in der Regel auch irgendwie sone Assets Punkt Sub Sub Domain von deiner eigenen Toplevel Domain im Optimalfall.",{"text":6353,"start":21916,"end":21917},{"text":44790,"start":21917,"end":21926},"So, dasselbe Schema.",{"sentences":44792,"speaker":181,"num_words":44795,"start":21929,"end":21976},[44793],{"text":44794,"start":21929,"end":21976},"Weil Du grad die Teilbarkeit von den Video URLs angesprochen hast, ist DM für euch irgend 'n Thema?",18,{"sentences":44797,"speaker":444,"num_words":43968,"start":21978,"end":22223},[44798,44800,44802,44804],{"text":44799,"start":21978,"end":22022},"Also wir bieten's nicht an und weil dafür auch sehr viel Checks hin- und herlaufen müssen.",{"text":44801,"start":22022,"end":22085},"Es kommt sehr selten die Frage dazu, da ist man dann aber tatsächlich eher so im Bereich der wirklich der der Streamer mit irgendwie lizenziertem Content.",{"text":44803,"start":22087,"end":22105},"Dafür sind wir dann auch die falsche Plattform.",{"text":44805,"start":22107,"end":22223},"Das das ist ja 'n Thema, wo Du dann DM Server, die Signaturübermittlung, also das ist 'n sehr, das wird dann schnell sehr komplex und da sind dann ja selbst irgendwie Netflix und Co sehr hinterher, das überhaupt erst mal gescheit hinzukriegen, das sicher zu bekommen.",{"sentences":44807,"speaker":160,"num_words":44397,"start":22223,"end":22271},[44808],{"text":44809,"start":22223,"end":22271},"Ja, ich könnt dir noch mal kurz erklären für alle draus nach DMS, weil ich glaub, ist nicht jedem Begriff.",{"sentences":44811,"speaker":444,"num_words":43828,"start":22271,"end":22540},[44812,44813,44814,44816,44818],{"text":16378,"start":22271,"end":22274},{"text":318,"start":22277,"end":22278},{"text":44815,"start":22278,"end":22297},"Also Digital Rights Management ist das das Thema.",{"text":44817,"start":22297,"end":22506},"Das heißt, da geht's drum, die sozusagen den den Datenverkehr nur wirklich an Menschen zu erlauben, die auch das Recht besitzen, auf dieses Asset zuzugreifen mit sozusagen, Du, also ne, Du hast irgendwie 'n Netflix Abo und kannst dann diese ganze Verbindung, diese Kette von Netflix zu dir ist halt sicher und auf gar keinen Fall kann da irgendwas von links und rechts rein, eventuell dazwischenzugehen, diesen diesen Stream abzugreifen und der läuft dann auch dann automatisch ab, ist irgendwie gehascht.",{"text":44819,"start":22506,"end":22540},"Also das, aber tiefer als das bin ich im DM Thema auch nicht drin.",{"sentences":44821,"speaker":181,"num_words":44830,"start":22543,"end":22846},[44822,44824,44826,44828],{"text":44823,"start":22543,"end":22641},"Vielleicht noch 'n halben Schritt zurückzugehen, wenn ich mir jetzt das durchschnittliche Youtube Video angucke oder Vimeo, dann haben die ja auch keine klassische DM Lösung, dass da irgendwie signiert das Videomaterial durch die Gegend geschoben wird oder so.",{"text":44825,"start":22641,"end":22709},"Aber die machen's ihren Zuschauern ja trotzdem nicht leicht, an das Rohvideo zu kommen, auch wenn's da bestimmt Tools für gibt, irgendwie Youtube Videos runterzuladen oder so.",{"text":44827,"start":22711,"end":22801},"Aber ist es auf der Ebene für euch irgendwie 'n Thema zu sagen, wir haben da schon irgendwie 'n Interesse dran, dass man jetzt nicht, weiß ich nicht, ne, im Player Rechtsklick machen kann und das Video irgendwie hier runterladen kann?",{"text":44829,"start":22801,"end":22846},"Ist das für eure Kunden auch wichtig oder ist das weiß ich nicht, überhaupt gar kein Thema mehr heutzutage?",126,{"sentences":44832,"speaker":444,"num_words":44198,"start":22849,"end":22984},[44833,44835],{"text":44834,"start":22849,"end":22872},"Also ist schon auch wichtig, dass Ja, boah wichtig.",{"text":44836,"start":22872,"end":22984},"Also ne, wir wissen, glaub ich, wenn man 'n bisschen da drin ist, wissen wir alles, was im Netz ist und irgendwie auf 'nem Bildschirm wiedergegeben wird, so nutz mach ich 'n Screenrekorder an und zeichne das auf und dann, also wenn ich's wirklich will.",{"sentences":44838,"speaker":181,"num_words":44843,"start":22984,"end":23149},[44839,44841],{"text":44840,"start":22984,"end":23070},"Ja, da da so auf der Ebene für für dich und mich und Fabian so ist das alles klar, aber für die die Kunden, die jetzt quasi zu euch kommen, legen die da irgendwie Wert darauf?",{"text":44842,"start":23070,"end":23149},"Ist das für das so in deren Requirement Checkliste son Punkt, dass da steht so, boah, wenn mein Video auf ignoriert ist, dann kann da nicht jeder das irgendwie gleich runterladen oder so.",69,{"sentences":44845,"speaker":444,"num_words":44856,"start":23149,"end":23526},[44846,44848,44850,44852,44854],{"text":44847,"start":23149,"end":23207},"Ist es, je nach Use Case, also aber grade, wenn's vielleicht jetzt irgendwie so Webinar Contest so, so spielt das eine Rolle.",{"text":44849,"start":23207,"end":23294},"Und tatsächlich ist es aber, das ist dann ja auch bei bei Youtube für mich ja auch nicht anders, dadurch, dass Du dieses adaptive Streaming benutzt, machst Du's den Leuten schon mal schwieriger, das so einfach runterzuladen.",{"text":44851,"start":23297,"end":23340},"Also wir nutzen den Play Ads sich auch einfach eine m p 4, sondern eben auch adaptive Streaming.",{"text":44853,"start":23340,"end":23454},"Wenn Du da halt eine Stunde Video hast, musst Du halt sehr viele 6 Sekunden Chunks dir mit irgend 'nem Tool wieder zusammenschneiden und Du musst die die die Also es ist halt einfach, gibt's Tools für, ja, aber es ist jetzt nicht einfach rechte Maustaste speichern.",{"text":44855,"start":23454,"end":23526},"Also das ist auch bei uns nicht der Fall und die Sicherheit ist immer relativ, aber diese diese Art der Absicherung ist auch da und ist auch wichtig, ja.",153,{"sentences":44858,"speaker":160,"num_words":44868,"start":23528,"end":23856},[44859,44860,44862,44864,44866],{"text":16378,"start":23528,"end":23529},{"text":44861,"start":23532,"end":23627},"Und vielleicht, wenn ihr jetzt irgendwie überlege so, ich als Hörer da draußen, der ist irgendwie hörend, der habt dich irgendwie grad reden hören über Privacy first und denk so, ja, eigentlich eigentlich hatte ich ja total recht.",{"text":44863,"start":23627,"end":23697},"Ich hab keine Lust mehr auf diese auf diese Banner da und es klang jetzt gar nicht so kompliziert, was ihr jetzt gemacht habt mit darauf einfach zu achten so.",{"text":44865,"start":23701,"end":23797},"Frag ich mich, ihr seid ja auch gleichzeitig noch im Agentur Business und baut Webseiten, so habt seitdem ihr dieses so Privacy First Videoplattform entwickelt, irgendwie sich euer Paradigma verändert, wie ihr dann auch grundsätzliche Applikationen baut?",{"text":44867,"start":23797,"end":23856},"Also gibt es, oder andersrum gefragt, gibt es Dinge, auf die ich, wenn ich jetzt meine Seite baue, mein Produkt baue, irgendwie darauf achten kann?",131,{"sentences":44870,"speaker":160,"num_words":44875,"start":23856,"end":23952},[44871,44873],{"text":44872,"start":23856,"end":23912},"Gibt's 'n typisches Stack, was ihr habt, wenn ich sage, okay, Privacy first ist was, was ich gerne angehen möchte, so?",{"text":44874,"start":23915,"end":23952},"Hat das hat das beeinflusst, wie ihr Produkte baut, seitdem ihr Ignite gebaut habt?",35,{"sentences":44877,"speaker":444,"num_words":43863,"start":23954,"end":24113},[44878,44879,44881,44883,44885],{"text":6353,"start":23954,"end":23955},{"text":44880,"start":23955,"end":23996},"Also mittlerweile ist ja Ignite wirklich komplett getrennt, auch vom Agenturbusiness, das heißt eigener Firma.",{"text":44882,"start":23996,"end":24029},"Auch ich bin da jetzt einhundert Prozent bei Ignite drin vom Fokus her.",{"text":44884,"start":24029,"end":24064},"Die Agentur läuft weiter, da bin ich noch involviert, aber nicht mehr operativ so.",{"text":44886,"start":24066,"end":24113},"Und nichtsdestotrotz, jetzt, sag ich mal, beim beim Videothema ist jetzt klar, welche Lösungen variiert wird.",{"sentences":44888,"speaker":444,"num_words":43692,"start":24115,"end":24181},[44889],{"text":44890,"start":24115,"end":24181},"Und ansonsten hängt es natürlich gerade, da arbeiten wir jetzt auch irgendwie für sehr große Unternehmen, die kommen eigentlich immer mit 'nem Stack an Tools schon daher.",{"sentences":44892,"speaker":160,"num_words":444,"start":24184,"end":24188},[44893],{"text":44894,"start":24184,"end":24188},"Das heißt,",{"sentences":44896,"speaker":444,"num_words":43988,"start":24188,"end":24425},[44897,44899,44901,44903,44905],{"text":44898,"start":24188,"end":24236},"die sagen, das ist unser Tracking, das ist unser AB-Testing Tool, das ist unser CRM, bitte rein.",{"text":44900,"start":24236,"end":24301},"Aber wenn Du natürlich irgendwo hin beraten kannst, würd ich auf jeden Fall jedem raten, mal so zu schauen, wie wie sieht denn so der Tool Stack aus?",{"text":44902,"start":24304,"end":24334},"Wofür gibt es vielleicht Alternativen, die eben ohne Content auskommen würden?",{"text":44904,"start":24337,"end":24409},"Und hab ich vielleicht sogar die realistische Chance, ohne dass ich 'n 'n Outcome Verschlechterung hab, Tools auszutauschen und vielleicht den Cookie Banner komplett loszuwerden auf meiner Seite?",{"text":44906,"start":24409,"end":24425},"Also Web Analytics, Captchas, Videos.",{"sentences":44908,"speaker":444,"num_words":44915,"start":24428,"end":24508},[44909,44911,44913],{"text":44910,"start":24428,"end":24463},"Und da muss man schon gucken, was, weiß nicht, was habt ihr noch so auf der Webseite?",{"text":44912,"start":24463,"end":24479},"Habt ihr noch was im Kopf?",{"text":44914,"start":24483,"end":24508},"Targeting Pixel, also in der Google Ads Retargeting Pixel",32,{"sentences":44917,"speaker":181,"num_words":44324,"start":24508,"end":24523},[44918],{"text":44919,"start":24508,"end":24523},"machen wir ja kein großes.",{"sentences":44921,"speaker":160,"num_words":44087,"start":24526,"end":24552},[44922],{"text":44923,"start":24526,"end":24552},"Haben wir haben wir 'n Content Baller bei unserer Homepage?",{"sentences":44925,"speaker":181,"num_words":44315,"start":24556,"end":24666},[44926,44927,44929,44931,44933],{"text":5808,"start":24556,"end":24557},{"text":44928,"start":24557,"end":24565},"Was heißt das?",{"text":44930,"start":24567,"end":24603},"Wir haben sonen Baller, Du musst nur mal kurz deinen deinen Cache alles löschen.",{"text":44932,"start":24603,"end":24618},"Der kommt da beim ersten Besuch.",{"text":44934,"start":24621,"end":24666},"Wir haben aber auch mit, was wir fürs Tracking nutzen, halt eine Lösung, die so sehr minimalistisch ist, ja.",{"sentences":44936,"speaker":181,"num_words":44795,"start":24668,"end":24710},[44937,44939],{"text":44938,"start":24668,"end":24703},"Ich muss ehrlicherweise sagen, dass wir Youtube für die Video im Bett benutzen, so, ja.",{"text":44940,"start":24703,"end":24710},"Und natürlich Da",{"sentences":44942,"speaker":444,"num_words":44734,"start":24710,"end":24718},[44943],{"text":44944,"start":24710,"end":24718},"hab ich unseren.",{"sentences":44946,"speaker":181,"num_words":44617,"start":24722,"end":24994},[44947,44949,44951,44953,44955],{"text":44948,"start":24722,"end":24753},"Und natürlich unseren eigenen Podcast Host für die Podcasts im Bett so.",{"text":44950,"start":24753,"end":24811},"Aber grade bei den Youtube Videos könnt man jetzt natürlich sagen, als das gebaut hat, war natürlich Youtube einfach so die go to go Lösung.",{"text":44952,"start":24811,"end":24895},"Also da muss man auch sagen, wir haben's natürlich geschafft, über Jahrzehnte sonen MindShare irgendwie sich zu ergattern, dass jeder, der im Web irgendwas mit Video macht, da hindefaltet eigentlich, ne.",{"text":44954,"start":24897,"end":24942},"Wahrscheinlich aber auch, weil es aus 'ner Zeit kommt, wo videotechnisch nicht ganz so trivial war so, ja.",{"text":44956,"start":24942,"end":24994},"Also ohne jetzt eure Lösung klein zu lesen, aber heute gibt's immer hinten 'n Videoelement, was man benutzen kann, so.",{"sentences":44958,"speaker":181,"num_words":44715,"start":24994,"end":25043},[44959,44961],{"text":44960,"start":24994,"end":25011},"Ja, das gab's ja früher gar nicht.",{"text":44962,"start":25013,"end":25043},"Also als ich angefangen hab mit Web Development, da war's noch Flashplayer,",{"sentences":44964,"speaker":444,"num_words":43658,"start":25047,"end":25063},[44965],{"text":44966,"start":25047,"end":25063},"so, die man gebraucht hat, Fabi Videos",{"sentences":44968,"speaker":181,"num_words":43639,"start":25063,"end":25082},[44969,44971],{"text":44970,"start":25063,"end":25069},"so, ja.",{"text":44972,"start":25071,"end":25082},"Fabi schmunzelt auch schon.",{"sentences":44974,"speaker":444,"num_words":43720,"start":25086,"end":25132},[44975],{"text":44976,"start":25086,"end":25132},"Waren noch die schönen FLV Files, die man da vorher noch special informieren musste.",{"sentences":44978,"speaker":181,"num_words":44503,"start":25132,"end":25331},[44979,44980,44982,44984,44986],{"text":5808,"start":25132,"end":25136},{"text":44981,"start":25136,"end":25188},"Und b, Du hast dich die Flash Extension in deinem Browser erzählt und dann war's vorbei mit Videos.",{"text":44983,"start":25190,"end":25210},"Und da, also da ist ja Youtube quasi groß geworden.",{"text":44985,"start":25210,"end":25249},"Da war's natürlich trivial für alle zu sagen, okay, wenn wir Videos machen wollen, nehmen wir irgendwie Youtube.",{"text":44987,"start":25251,"end":25331},"Und wenn ich mir jetzt anguck, okay, ich würde Ignite als als Alternative in Betracht ziehen wollen, ist, glaub ich, 'n guter Punkt, auch mal so über Pricing zu reden.",{"sentences":44989,"speaker":181,"num_words":43687,"start":25331,"end":25527},[44990,44992,44994,44996,44998],{"text":44991,"start":25331,"end":25367},"Also jetzt nicht eure Pricingpunkte im im Allgemeinen, das ist ja euer Ding.",{"text":44993,"start":25370,"end":25421},"Aber so, einfach son bisschen, glaub ich, Verständnis dafür zu entwickeln, warum das halt so viel kostet, wie es kostet, ja.",{"text":44995,"start":25421,"end":25491},"Weil natürlich die Leute wahrscheinlich schon erst mal draufgucken und sagen, ja, bei Youtube krieg ich das für umsonst, bei Vimeo zahl ich, weiß ich nicht was, so, ja.",{"text":44997,"start":25491,"end":25513},"Und bei euch steht jetzt hier x Euro im Monat.",{"text":44999,"start":25513,"end":25527},"Wieso denn überhaupt so, ja?",{"sentences":45001,"speaker":444,"num_words":44149,"start":25527,"end":25681},[45002,45004,45006,45008,45010],{"text":45003,"start":25527,"end":25542},"Also ab 9 Euro im Monat?",{"text":45005,"start":25546,"end":25566},"Ja, also das, aber also das ist 'n Punkt.",{"text":45007,"start":25566,"end":25593},"Also Youtube vielleicht erst mal da ist wär auch vollkommen legitim.",{"text":45009,"start":25593,"end":25671},"Das ist auch erst mal, je nachdem, was man macht, sollte man, glaube ich, auch auf Youtube präsent sein mit seinem Video Content, weil man da ja auch eine ganz eigene Search hat.",{"text":45011,"start":25671,"end":25681},"Man kann da eine Content",{"sentences":45013,"speaker":160,"num_words":44087,"start":25681,"end":25711},[45014],{"text":45015,"start":25681,"end":25711},"Das ist auch die Das ist auch die auch die",{"sentences":45017,"speaker":181,"num_words":45021,"start":25714,"end":25735},[45018,45020],{"text":45019,"start":25714,"end":25732},"auch die warum wir auf Youtube sind.",{"text":318,"start":25732,"end":25735},8,{"sentences":45023,"speaker":444,"num_words":45033,"start":25735,"end":25983},[45024,45025,45027,45029,45031],{"text":318,"start":25735,"end":25737},{"text":45026,"start":25737,"end":25796},"Man kann da Community aufbauen und das wär auch vermessen zu sagen, Jani, lass das sein und leg deine Videos zu uns.",{"text":45028,"start":25796,"end":25813},"Wir haben ja gar keine Public Plattform.",{"text":45030,"start":25813,"end":25835},"Wir sind ja wirklich dann sozusagen Service für Websitebetreiber.",{"text":45032,"start":25838,"end":25983},"Was dann aber natürlich doof ist, wenn wir jetzt dann in die EU gehen, Thema Consent ist, dass wenn Du dann das natürlich für nutzt auf deiner Seite auch gleichzeitig, dass Du dann eben da die Hälfte deiner Nutzer irgendwie verlierst, weil da so die, je nach Ablehnungsrate, die Du so hast, so, die sehen dann halt einfach initial das Video nicht.",101,{"sentences":45035,"speaker":444,"num_words":45046,"start":25985,"end":26172},[45036,45038,45040,45042,45044],{"text":45037,"start":25985,"end":26070},"Das heißt, da gibt's dann einfach die Option zu sagen, ja, dann packt man halt diese Videos zu uns und packt dann vielleicht auch 'n coolen irgendwie netten Call to Action unters Video.",{"text":45039,"start":26070,"end":26129},"Wenn Du sagst, hey, fandste cool, dann klick hier und folg uns doch auch auf Youtube, dann kriegst Du immer noch mehr von uns mit.",{"text":45041,"start":26129,"end":26139},"Cool, Absolut legitim.",{"text":45043,"start":26141,"end":26154},"Überhaupt gar nichts gegen einzuwenden.",{"text":45045,"start":26158,"end":26172},"Und was war jetzt mein Wort?",72,{"sentences":45048,"speaker":181,"num_words":44453,"start":26176,"end":26401},[45049,45051,45053,45055,45057],{"text":45050,"start":26176,"end":26194},"Also mir geht's, glaub ich, Preising.",{"text":45052,"start":26198,"end":26296},"Darauf, genau, darauf hinzuweisen, dass der der Preis, den ihr verlangt, egal wie hoch oder niedrig der jetzt ist, ja, der ist ja eigentlich nur 'n Indikator von dem, was Youtube und andere Plattformen eigentlich an diesen Videos verdienen.",{"text":45054,"start":26299,"end":26338},"Weil auch die machen das ja nicht aus Nächstenliebe, so, sondern die haben ja auch Verrückt.",{"text":45056,"start":26338,"end":26384},"Da muss man mal bei unserem Cloud Konto anfragen, warum die da überhaupt was abrechnen, Barbie.",{"text":45058,"start":26387,"end":26401},"So, und die verdienen ja quasi.",{"sentences":45060,"speaker":181,"num_words":43667,"start":26401,"end":26542},[45061,45063],{"text":45062,"start":26401,"end":26456},"Also man sagt ja immer so, wenn man wenn man nicht für das Produkt bezahlt, ist man selber das Produkt, das geflügelte Wort.",{"text":45064,"start":26456,"end":26542},"Und wenn man jetzt quasi bei euch sieht, was quasi Videohosting kostet, dann sieht man so im Umkehrschluss ja auch, was Youtube an mir verdient, wenn ich da meine Videos in Anführungszeichen umsonst hosten lasse.",{"sentences":45066,"speaker":444,"num_words":44843,"start":26545,"end":26719},[45067,45069,45071,45073,45075],{"text":45068,"start":26545,"end":26569},"Ja, wahrscheinlich verdient Youtube mehr als wir ziemlich sicher sogar.",{"text":45070,"start":26572,"end":26588},"Und also das ist natürlich genau der Punkt.",{"text":45072,"start":26588,"end":26697},"Das heißt, wir, was sozusagen ja eigentlich schon immer möglich war, also ich hab irgendwie genug Geld oder 'n Entwicklungs- oder IT Team, was auch immer und dann kann ich darauf ansetzen, kann ich das, was wir machen, mehr oder weniger selbst hinstellen?",{"text":45074,"start":26697,"end":26709},"Baue ich sone Pipeline?",{"text":45076,"start":26709,"end":26719},"Baue ich mein CDN?",{"sentences":45078,"speaker":444,"num_words":45089,"start":26723,"end":27019},[45079,45081,45083,45085,45087],{"text":45080,"start":26723,"end":26729},"Mach ich das?",{"text":45082,"start":26729,"end":26751},"Gib x 1000 Euro dafür aus und hab das?",{"text":45084,"start":26754,"end":26811},"Das können dann die größere Unternehmen können das oder mit 'ner entsprechenden Expertise, aber wer das nicht kann, sind alle irgendwie im kleineren Segment.",{"text":45086,"start":26814,"end":26850},"Alles, wo jetzt irgendwie nicht 'n x-Menschenteam irgendwie da ist oder das Geld da ist.",{"text":45088,"start":26852,"end":27019},"Und bei uns war eigentlich die Herausforderung zu sehen, wie schaffen wir's eigentlich, dann auch den den kleinen Websitebetreibern auch zu ermöglichen, nicht Youtube benutzen zu müssen, vielleicht oder nicht wie Meo nicht, was oder war JW Player, wisst ihr, ja, was es alles halt irgendwie so gibt, sondern eine Alternative zu haben, die eben nicht Unmengen an Geld kostet ab xhundert Euro im Monat, sondern irgendwie günstig ist.",120,{"sentences":45091,"speaker":444,"num_words":44341,"start":27019,"end":27266},[45092,45094,45096,45098,45100],{"text":45093,"start":27019,"end":27055},"Und das, also das war so der Anspruch, der Stretch, den wir versuchen hinzubekommen.",{"text":45095,"start":27059,"end":27109},"Deswegen haben wir gesagt, okay, irgendwie 'n 9 Euro im Monat müssen wir hinkriegen für die Kleinen, haben wir auch hinbekommen.",{"text":45097,"start":27109,"end":27141},"Dann geht's irgendwie hoch, aber bei Youtube ist es natürlich erst mal kostenlos.",{"text":45099,"start":27144,"end":27225},"Das heißt, die den Sprung hinzukriegen, ist mir das überhaupt was wert, wenn nur ein Video auf meiner Webseite einfach direkt sichtbar ist ohne diesen Content oder eben nicht und dann nehm ich weiterhin Youtube.",{"text":45101,"start":27227,"end":27266},"Und diese diese Abwägung ist legitim, in die eine oder andere Richtung irgendwie zu treffen.",{"sentences":45103,"speaker":444,"num_words":44582,"start":27269,"end":27455},[45104,45106,45108],{"text":45105,"start":27269,"end":27386},"Mein mein Gedanke dahinter war zumindest der, wenn ich jetzt irgendwie mit dem Video auf meinen Plattformen irgendwas bezwecke, irgendwie irgendwas dabei gedacht habe, dann habe ich vielleicht auch die 9 Euro im Monat oder halt irgendwie plus plus plus, je nachdem, was ich so brauche, das einzubetten.",{"text":45107,"start":27389,"end":27444},"Weil der Mehrwert, den ich darin sehe, dass das Video von allen gesehen werden kann, mir groß genug erscheint, das so zu tun.",{"text":45109,"start":27447,"end":27455},"Und so, ja, Punkt.",{"sentences":45111,"speaker":181,"num_words":44465,"start":27457,"end":27671},[45112,45114,45116,45118],{"text":45113,"start":27457,"end":27499},"Der Großteil eurer Nutzer oder Frage, für den Großteil eurer Nutzer, was ist das entscheidendere Argument?",{"text":45115,"start":27499,"end":27561},"Sind das dann eher die Kunden, die sagen, wie das Phantasialand Beispiel, ich will das einfach möglichst invasiv und ich will dieses ganze Cookie Thema irgendwie umgehen?",{"text":45117,"start":27564,"end":27654},"Oder sind das eher Kunden, die sagen, meinen Kunden wiederum ist Privacy halt irgendwie megawichtig und ich würde das gerne quasi stringent eben auch auf der Infrastruktur- und Plattformseite behandeln und dementsprechend komm ich zu euch?",{"text":45119,"start":27657,"end":27671},"Was ist da mal das stärkere Argument?",{"sentences":45121,"speaker":444,"num_words":44856,"start":27673,"end":28058},[45122,45124,45126,45128,45130],{"text":45123,"start":27673,"end":27776},"Also wir haben auch in den letzten Wochen noch mal vermehrt gelernt, dass dieses ganze, dieses Mal, Konsensfreiheit zwar irgendwie schon so der USP ist, aber dass danach sehr wenig Leute suchen, weil's anscheinend nicht, also ist so, ist Punkt auch.",{"text":45125,"start":27778,"end":27923},"Und auf der anderen Seite ist es dann so, dass, sagen wir mal, es gibt Bereiche, wir haben ja zum Beispiel irgendwie Kliniken, wo es halt medizinische Themen geht, Pharma, Bildung mit Jugendlichen, die sagen, für die ist das ganz klar 'n Thema, dass keine personenbezogenen Daten von deren Zielgruppe irgendwie an Dritte gehen, die daraus Werbung machen.",{"text":45127,"start":27923,"end":27997},"Also ich weiß ich nicht, ich guck mir jetzt irgendwie das Bahnhofsvideo zur Krebstherapie an und möchte vielleicht nicht, dass das morgen in meinen Google Ads Algorithmus irgendwie Ja.",{"text":45129,"start":27999,"end":28022},"Drin ist, sodass die sind dann sehr sensibel dafür.",{"text":45131,"start":28022,"end":28058},"Das ist dann sehr einfach und klar und die anderen suchen eigentlich einfach nur nach Videohosting.",{"sentences":45133,"speaker":444,"num_words":44430,"start":28061,"end":28285},[45134,45136,45138],{"text":45135,"start":28061,"end":28140},"Und da können wir dann hoffentlich mit dem USP so einen obendrauf setzen und sagen und dann kriegst Du sozusagen auch die die Ausspielung noch on top, aber es ist sozusagen super kleinteilig.",{"text":45137,"start":28140,"end":28207},"Und dann gibt's wiederum auch natürlich irgendwie Agenturen, die ihren Kunden wiederum auch gerne Tool Stacks mit an die Hand geben, auch irgendwie gute Webseiten bauen zu können.",{"text":45139,"start":28207,"end":28285},"Auch das ist der Fall, dass dass dass bei uns also 'n paar Agenturen, die mit denen wir mittlerweile zusammenarbeiten, bei denen wir jetzt in sozusagen der Liste der der Tools irgendwie auftauchen.",{"sentences":45141,"speaker":160,"num_words":45046,"start":28288,"end":28460},[45142,45144,45146],{"text":45143,"start":28288,"end":28360},"Und bei den Beispielen, wo Du meintest so, hey, da kommen auch teilweise Enterprise, die irgendwie schon mit ihren Tools der kommen und sagen, hier diese 4, 5 Tools haben wir so.",{"text":45145,"start":28362,"end":28431},"Das klang jetzt erst oder sind das dann Anwendungsfälle, wo die anderen Tools dann auch Privacy first sind oder oder wenn sie's nicht sind, warum dann euch als Plattform?",{"text":45147,"start":28431,"end":28460},"Vielleicht kannst Du jetzt noch aus dem als Winkel noch mal",{"sentences":45149,"speaker":444,"num_words":45154,"start":28462,"end":28616},[45150,45152],{"text":45151,"start":28462,"end":28580},"Genau, selbst selbst wenn sozusagen die restlichen Tools, also selbst wenn Du noch 'n Cookie Banner auf deiner Seite hast, was wahrscheinlich in 90 Prozent der Fälle tatsächlich auch der Fall ist, ist es ja so, dass eben trotzdem so plus minus die Hälfte, ne, je nachdem, wie das Ding ablehnt.",{"text":45153,"start":28583,"end":28616},"Und dann selbst wenn sie ablehnen, sind, ist zumindest der komplette Video Content da.",65,{"sentences":45156,"speaker":181,"num_words":45021,"start":28616,"end":28635},[45157],{"text":45158,"start":28616,"end":28635},"Du kannst das Video nicht kaputt klicken sozusagen.",{"sentences":45160,"speaker":444,"num_words":44795,"start":28638,"end":28681},[45161],{"text":45162,"start":28638,"end":28681},"Ja, Du also ne, das ist irgendwie möglichst viel von der Webexperience zu behalten, auch wenn die Leute",{"sentences":45164,"speaker":160,"num_words":44734,"start":28683,"end":28692},[45165],{"text":45166,"start":28683,"end":28692},"Hab ich ja.",{"sentences":45168,"speaker":444,"num_words":45179,"start":28695,"end":28925},[45169,45171,45173,45175,45177],{"text":45170,"start":28695,"end":28701},"Das Ding wegklicken.",{"text":45172,"start":28705,"end":28785},"Und dann, Du hast natürlich das Thema, Du hast und da da strugglen wir auch mit, wir würden auch gerne besser die Ergebnisse unserer Ads messen können, mit denen wir irgendwie für unser Produkt werben.",{"text":45174,"start":28788,"end":28853},"Können wir nicht, weil wir auf unserer Seite halt keine Cookies und kein kein Tracking kein Tracking setzen für für Google zum Beispiel jetzt, für die Search Ads.",{"text":45176,"start":28856,"end":28906},"Müssen wir halt dann irgendwie ganz klassisch mit dem Parameter versuchen, den mit über den Kampagnennamen irgendwie durch durchzustecken.",{"text":45178,"start":28909,"end":28925},"Muss man halt paar Abstriche machen?",91,{"sentences":45181,"speaker":160,"num_words":45184,"start":28925,"end":29035},[45182],{"text":45183,"start":28925,"end":29035},"Ja, das hab ich gar nicht verstanden, weil die Werbung, die ihr für eure Plattform, oder geht's jetzt nicht euer Produkt, sondern Privacy first ist bei euch, bei allem auch, wenn ihr sagt, ihr macht Werbung für euer Produkt, auch da schränkt ihr euch dementsprechend ein?",46,{"sentences":45186,"speaker":444,"num_words":226,"start":29035,"end":29065},[45187],{"text":45188,"start":29035,"end":29065},"Ja, auf unserer Seite, das wär ja irgendwie, also das wär irgendwie",{"sentences":45190,"speaker":160,"num_words":44734,"start":29065,"end":29077},[45191,45192],{"text":29070,"start":29065,"end":29067},{"text":45193,"start":29072,"end":29077},"Gesagt, ja.",{"sentences":45195,"speaker":444,"num_words":45184,"start":29077,"end":29187},[45196,45198,45200],{"text":45197,"start":29077,"end":29169},"Wenn auf unserer Seite 'n Cookie Banner kommen würde, das also, das ist schon der Anspruch auch an uns selbst, dass dass, wenn Du auf unsere Seite kommst, es kein es kein Cookie Gun Banner braucht, unsere Seite anzugucken.",{"text":45199,"start":29172,"end":29176},"Ja, so.",{"text":45201,"start":29176,"end":29187},"Das ist ja, das ist",{"sentences":45203,"speaker":160,"num_words":44492,"start":29187,"end":29241},[45204,45206],{"text":45205,"start":29187,"end":29238},"ja was konsequent, aber es ist jetzt nicht, es ist nicht für mich komplett selbstverständlich, dass dem so ist, so.",{"text":1242,"start":29238,"end":29241},{"sentences":45208,"speaker":181,"num_words":43735,"start":29243,"end":29420},[45209,45211,45213,45215],{"text":45210,"start":29243,"end":29298},"Ja, also ich sag mal, rein aus Marketingsicht macht das ja schon Sinn, dass dein erster Kontakt mit Ignite ein consentfreier ist.",{"text":45212,"start":29298,"end":29332},"Und Du halt siehst so, boah, so kann sich das Web anfühlen, so, ja?",{"text":45214,"start":29332,"end":29381},"Weil also, weil das ist ja das, wo Du, das ist ja genau die Experience, die Du quasi verkaufen willst.",{"text":45216,"start":29381,"end":29420},"Und wenn Du den selber nicht bereitstellen kannst, was ist denn dann dein dein Demo Case sozusagen,",{"sentences":45218,"speaker":444,"num_words":45228,"start":29422,"end":29766},[45219,45220,45222,45224,45226],{"text":5022,"start":29422,"end":29423},{"text":45221,"start":29423,"end":29458},"Ja und aber und so, das ist, da da lehnen wir da mit Kompromissen.",{"text":45223,"start":29461,"end":29636},"Und die Hoffnung ist, und wir wir kriegen's auch ganz gut hin, also ne, wir sind irgendwie ganz gut am Wachsen jetzt, reicht noch nicht fürn volles Gehalt für uns zweite Gründer, aber es es es geht in eine richtige Richtung, dass dass es irgendwie in der Mischkalkulation passt, auch wenn wir halt dann nicht so diesen Zugriff auf die auf die personenbezogenen Daten unserer Websitebesucher haben.",{"text":45225,"start":29638,"end":29739},"Aber auch da darf man ja nicht vergessen, gilt ja dasselbe, auch diese ganzen Messpixel von den von den Ads Anbietern kannst Du ja auch nur einbinden, darfst Du auch nur laden, wenn Du den Consent von ihnen bekommst.",{"text":45227,"start":29739,"end":29766},"Das heißt, auch da geht ja die die Hälfte der Daten flöten.",133,{"sentences":45230,"speaker":181,"num_words":160,"start":29766,"end":29770},[45231],{"text":6353,"start":29766,"end":29770},{"sentences":45233,"speaker":444,"num_words":226,"start":29770,"end":29806},[45234],{"text":45235,"start":29770,"end":29806},"Also vielleicht fehlt uns dann nur noch 'n Viertel an anstatt alles.",{"sentences":45237,"speaker":160,"num_words":44304,"start":29809,"end":30115},[45238,45240,45242,45244,45246],{"text":45239,"start":29809,"end":29846},"Ja, interessant, diese diese Reise an Infrastruktur, die ihr da die ihr da macht.",{"text":45241,"start":29846,"end":29918},"Aber ich find's auf jeden Fall, ich mein, wir hatten ja schon auch, wenn wir von erzählt, ne, auf der Programmier konntest hast Du ja schon deinen Talk gehalten so.",{"text":45243,"start":29918,"end":29969},"Und ich fand das dann durchaus eigentlich ziemlich inspirierend so, was was Du da was Du da darüber erzählt hast.",{"text":45245,"start":29969,"end":30049},"Und auch wenn wenn es erst mal irgendwie sehr einschränkend klang, hab ich's Gefühl so, dass sie jetzt nicht groß jetzt eigentlich darunter leidet, mit diesem mit mit diesem Ansatz zu fahren.",{"text":45247,"start":30049,"end":30115},"Und irgendwie find ich schon, dass es eher mich dazu inspiriert hat, zu sagen, ja, natürlich sollte man wirklich noch an mehr Stellen probieren, dass das so zu tun.",{"sentences":45249,"speaker":160,"num_words":45252,"start":30115,"end":30187},[45250],{"text":45251,"start":30115,"end":30187},"Und nicht für, ah ja, gut, so, wenn die Dämme schon mal gebrochen sind, ich hab das erste Tool drin, wofür ihr den Content Banner braucht, dann ist jetzt auch egal.",31,{"sentences":45254,"speaker":181,"num_words":444,"start":30187,"end":30196},[45255],{"text":45256,"start":30187,"end":30196},"Nach voll.",{"sentences":45258,"speaker":160,"num_words":45046,"start":30196,"end":30377},[45259,45261,45263,45265],{"text":45260,"start":30196,"end":30239},"Beim nächsten Tool muss er einfach nur die Liste und die Leute müssen zustimmen, so ungefähr.",{"text":45262,"start":30239,"end":30278},"Ja, es ist Weil er auch grad wirklich, mir war's auch vorhin gar nicht wusste.",{"text":45264,"start":30278,"end":30375},"Natürlich klar, nur weil ich 'n Content Banner hab, heißt ja nicht, dass es nicht trotzdem Sinn macht, einen Teil davon content frei zu haben, sodass ich eben eine Experience habe, auch für Leute, die's ablehnen, maximal gut zu haben.",{"text":5808,"start":30375,"end":30377},{"sentences":45267,"speaker":444,"num_words":45033,"start":30377,"end":30617},[45268,45270,45272,45274,45275],{"text":45269,"start":30377,"end":30440},"Also klar, ich find's natürlich als Nutzer am schönsten, wenn dieses Banner oder gar nicht wahrscheinlich, es ist ja wieder das Doofe wie dieses Präventionsparadoxon.",{"text":45271,"start":30444,"end":30530},"Wenn dieses Banner nie auftaucht, dann hast Du vielleicht gar nicht gemerkt, wie sehr es sich gestört hat auf den Seiten, wo's da war, aber auf der anderen Seite ist natürlich schön, dieses Banner kommt gar nicht.",{"text":45273,"start":30532,"end":30591},"Und auf der anderen Seite, wenn jetzt im Hintergrund dann bei dir als Websitebetreiber, dass Analytics nicht geladen wird, ist mir das als Nutzer ja total egal.",{"text":5808,"start":30591,"end":30593},{"text":45276,"start":30593,"end":30617},"Das heißt, ich klick nein und dann denk ich mir Ja.",{"sentences":45278,"speaker":444,"num_words":44528,"start":30620,"end":30774},[45279,45281,45282,45284,45286],{"text":45280,"start":30620,"end":30678},"Das das hat ja keinen Einfluss auf meine Experience als als User, aber es hat ja schon Einfluss auf meine Experience, wenn die Videos nicht da sind.",{"text":5808,"start":30680,"end":30681},{"text":45283,"start":30681,"end":30728},"Und deswegen kommen wir jetzt erst mal rein eigentlich aus der User Experience Ecke und den Rest müssen andere machen.",{"text":45285,"start":30730,"end":30747},"Wir versuchen da irgendwie unser Bestes zu geben.",{"text":45287,"start":30747,"end":30774},"Auch wir sind wir sind ja dann auch nicht perfekt, ne.",{"sentences":45289,"speaker":444,"num_words":43735,"start":30774,"end":30954},[45290,45292,45294],{"text":45291,"start":30774,"end":30843},"Also irgendwie, wir versuchen alles irgendwie hinzustellen, versuchen irgendwie auch da die die richtigen Partner irgendwie für uns zu finden, aktuell irgendwie dann da mit AWS, aber whatever.",{"text":45293,"start":30843,"end":30875},"Wir sind auch irgendwie mit mit Scalway und OVH im im Austausch.",{"text":45295,"start":30875,"end":30954},"Wir haben unsere Datenbank aktuell dann bei OVH zum Beispiel liegen, damit also die Daten, die jetzt, wo die Daten unserer Admin User drin liegen, die wollen wir ja auch bei uns auch",{"sentences":45297,"speaker":160,"num_words":44754,"start":30954,"end":31023},[45298],{"text":45299,"start":30954,"end":31023},"bei uns auch bei uns auch bei uns auch bei uns auch bei uns auch bei uns auch bei uns auch bei uns",{"sentences":45301,"speaker":181,"num_words":43639,"start":31025,"end":31041},[45302],{"text":45303,"start":31025,"end":31041},"auch bei uns auch bei uns",{"sentences":45305,"speaker":444,"num_words":45314,"start":31043,"end":31325},[45306,45308,45310,45312],{"text":45307,"start":31043,"end":31127},"So und da betreiben wir zum Beispiel unsere Datenbank, dann liegen die Daten zumindest, wo Nutzerdaten liegen, auch mal E-Mail, Passwort, halt klassisch, ne, irgendwie, was man sonst auch so CMS nennen könnte.",{"text":45309,"start":31131,"end":31182},"Das liegt dann da halt nicht bei 'nem Hyperscaler, aber auch Skateboard cooler auch cooler französischer Laden, auch Cloud.",{"text":45311,"start":31185,"end":31267},"Ich find's zumindest da vielleicht auch in der Perspektive immer schön zu sehen, dass da jetzt mal 'n bisschen Dampf reinkommt in die in die europäische Cloud Bubble, würd ich mal sagen.",{"text":45313,"start":31267,"end":31325},"Da haben wir halt einfach, weiß ich nicht, wahrscheinlich gut 10 Jahre Rückstand im im Sinne der Technologien, wenn man das so sieht.",107,{"sentences":45316,"speaker":160,"num_words":44161,"start":31328,"end":31622},[45317,45319,45321],{"text":45318,"start":31328,"end":31481},"Wurde das ja eher dann, also das Beispiel zu OVA und Scalware und so, theoretisch hatten wir vorhin den Punkt so, nur weil ihr bei 'nem Hyperscaler seid, das wär ja jetzt ja erst mal noch kein Bruch mit eurem Ansatz, sondern wenn ihr eure, wenn ihr diese Daten dort liegen haben würdet so für die Kunden, die da die da draufgehen.",{"text":45320,"start":31485,"end":31609},"Aber ist einfach dann eher so gemäß dem Gedanken, so, lasst das so mäßig machen, wie's geht und man halt vielleicht bei den Hyperskehern es dann eher nicht weiß und bei den europäischen, die den Fokus darauf legen, vielleicht sicherer ist, dass auch wirklich niemand an die Daten rangeht am Ende?",{"text":45322,"start":31609,"end":31622},"Oder was ist da der Gedanke?",{"sentences":45324,"speaker":444,"num_words":44582,"start":31625,"end":31803},[45325,45327,45328,45329,45331],{"text":45326,"start":31625,"end":31688},"Genau, also wir versuchen's einfach so gut, wie es uns möglich ist zu machen, ohne den Anspruch zu haben, eventuell nichts zu machen, weil wir's nicht perfekt hinbekommen.",{"text":5808,"start":31690,"end":31691},{"text":5808,"start":31694,"end":31695},{"text":45330,"start":31695,"end":31749},"Das und ne, dann wieder auch das Thema Content Freiheit oder irgendwie Privacy first, wie für Content Freiheit ist das alles fein so.",{"text":45332,"start":31749,"end":31803},"Und wir wir sind da auch, also ich bin großer Fan von der Qualität der Services, die ABS da zur Verfügung stellt.",{"sentences":45334,"speaker":444,"num_words":45345,"start":31803,"end":32112},[45335,45337,45339,45341,45343],{"text":45336,"start":31803,"end":31863},"Das ist, weiß ich nicht, jetzt in der Zeit, wir haben noch nicht ein einziges Mal einen einzigen schiefgelaufenen API Call dahin gehabt.",{"text":45338,"start":31863,"end":31903},"Also jetzt von unserer Seite ja vielleicht, aber die API hat noch nicht einmal irgendwie zicken gemacht.",{"text":45340,"start":31903,"end":32024},"Irgendwie krass, wie robust und stabil das einfach ist, auch auf der, also mit dieser Skalierung finde ich mega cool und trotzdem ist es natürlich auch, also bin ich ja mit niemandem da irgendwie verheiratet und möchte irgendwie für für unser Produkt und für für unsere Kunden irgendwie das Beste draus machen können.",{"text":45342,"start":32024,"end":32085},"Und wenn's da dann auch irgendwie dann aus Europa irgendwann mal an 'nem Punkt ist, wo man auf der Größenordnung coole Dinge machen kann, cool.",{"text":45344,"start":32088,"end":32112},"Aber auch die stehen ja in 'nem ständigen Wettbewerb miteinander.",128,{"sentences":45347,"speaker":444,"num_words":45358,"start":32115,"end":32422},[45348,45350,45352,45354,45356],{"text":45349,"start":32115,"end":32200},"Aber ich weiß nicht, wie das bei euch ist, aber so diese Abwägung ich will ja als auch als als Techy, als Mensch, der gerne Dinge baut, eigentlich immer die besten Produkte nutzen, die irgendwie da sind.",{"text":45351,"start":32202,"end":32275},"Und dann macht man vielleicht Kompromisse im einen oder anderen Bereich, weil man dafür zum Beispiel im Bereich irgendwie Datenlocation, irgendwie EU Regulierung 'n bisschen was besser machen kann.",{"text":45353,"start":32275,"end":32302},"Dann gibt's vielleicht 'n Punkt, wo man denkt, das das funktioniert noch.",{"text":45355,"start":32302,"end":32388},"Und irgendwann wird der Gap vielleicht zu groß ist, denke, ja, ich möchte jetzt auf diese Art der Funktionalität und Qualität des Produkts, möchte ich oder kann ich grade nicht verzichten, sind wir noch nicht so weit.",{"text":45357,"start":32388,"end":32422},"Ich weiß nicht, wie das so bei bei euch ist, ob ihr so Themen habt.",130,{"sentences":45360,"speaker":181,"num_words":43651,"start":32425,"end":32449},[45361],{"text":45362,"start":32425,"end":32449},"Also bei uns nicht, ich muss eher Fabi angucken, glaub ich.",{"sentences":45364,"speaker":160,"num_words":45375,"start":32452,"end":33071},[45365,45367,45369,45371,45373],{"text":45366,"start":32452,"end":32462},"Nee, ich, eigentlich wenig.",{"text":45368,"start":32462,"end":32605},"Ich find, weil ich fand noch mal irgendwie, als Du das grade ausgeführt hast, kam mir noch mal son bisschen dieser andere Gedanke so und das ist vielleicht aber auch, weil wir da auch zu wenig dann Oder andersrum gesagt, ich find dieses Paradigma so was wie hostet in EU, in Germany, die die ABA compliance so was.",{"text":45370,"start":32605,"end":32748},"Ich find erst mal, dass eigentlich dieses Label, ich mein aber da denk ich jetzt auch schon zurück in meine Zeit, als ich bei der Deutschen Bank irgendwie gearbeitet hab und irgendwie das alles alles, was da irgendwie hostet in EU, gefühlt einfach immer so sich son bisschen verstaubt wirkt wie, ich arbeite beim Amt und es muss halt irgendwo laufen.",{"text":45372,"start":32748,"end":32809},"Und das heißt einfach nur, es ist dann zwar DSGVO konform, irgendwie passt alles so, aber eigentlich sind einfach nur die die schlechteren Produkte so.",{"text":45374,"start":32809,"end":33071},"Und ich mein, wenn man auch jetzt mit dir darüber spricht, wenn man sich irgendnightant sowas anguckt und so, Ich hab oder ich hab das Gefühl, bei einigen ist dieses verstaubte Image wahrscheinlich auch immer noch da, so also ist dieses Privacy first, wo Du meintest so, ja, das ist euer Unique Selling Point, aber es ist gar nicht so das, nachdem die Leute suchen so, aber es ist ja dann scheinbar etwas, was die Leute aber irgendwie brauchen und zumindest, ich sprach mich so, kann es teilweise sogar abschreckend wirken, weil Leute erst mal damit verbinden, okay, dann kann's ja kein gutes Produkt sein son bisschen, weißt Du?",257,{"sentences":45377,"speaker":160,"num_words":43753,"start":33071,"end":33135},[45378,45380],{"text":45379,"start":33071,"end":33102},"Wenn's nicht, wenn es wenn es sich so diesem Label son bisschen gibt.",{"text":45381,"start":33102,"end":33135},"Also habt ihr damit mit diesem Stigma irgendwie also zu kämpfen so?",{"sentences":45383,"speaker":444,"num_words":44617,"start":33137,"end":33407},[45384,45386,45388,45390],{"text":45385,"start":33137,"end":33214},"Also ich glaub grundsätzlich gibt's schon son bisschen son Stigma, dass alles, was jetzt irgendwie nicht Silicon Valley ist, vielleicht eher 'n bisschen biederer und angestaubter vielleicht so daherkommen kann.",{"text":45387,"start":33214,"end":33302},"Wobei sich das, glaub ich, auch so in den letzten 5 bis 10 Jahren schon irgendwie geändert hat, dass es auch heuer richtig coole SARS Tools aus aus Europa irgendwie gibt mit mit hochwertigen Nutzeroberflächen.",{"text":45389,"start":33305,"end":33355},"Und es gibt aber auch eine Menge richtig angestaubter Lösungen, so im Enterprise Videobereich, wo Du denkst, oh Gottes Willen.",{"text":45391,"start":33355,"end":33407},"So, das, also gar nicht mal, die liefern auch Videos aus, aber die Oberflächen und so ist dann alles sehr angestaubt.",{"sentences":45393,"speaker":160,"num_words":444,"start":33407,"end":33414},[45394],{"text":45395,"start":33407,"end":33414},"Und da",{"sentences":45397,"speaker":444,"num_words":45406,"start":33414,"end":33721},[45398,45400,45402,45404],{"text":45399,"start":33414,"end":33493},"war dann auch unser Anspruch zu sagen, nee, das muss schon auch irgendwie 'n bisschen Spaß machen in der Bedienung, muss 'n bisschen schnell, snappy, moderne halt moderne Oberfläche haben.",{"text":45401,"start":33495,"end":33619},"Und dieses Thema ja, die die unsere Kunden suchen gar nicht so richtig nach dir direkt nach dem Konsenthema, was denen irgendwie wahrscheinlich viel mehr am Herzen liegt, ist einfach irgendwie möglichst einfach schnell 'n Video auf die Website zu bekommen und wenn möglich an alle, die auf die Website gehen, ja.",{"text":45403,"start":33621,"end":33654},"Aber wenn man das gut hinkriegt, dann hat man, glaub ich, schon viel gewonnen.",{"text":45405,"start":33657,"end":33721},"Und dann kämpft man sicherlich son bisschen mit dem Gedanken der Nutzer, ja, ist es ist es eine 20 Prozent schlechtere Lösung, weil sie aus Europa ist?",123,{"sentences":45408,"speaker":181,"num_words":45419,"start":33723,"end":34062},[45409,45411,45413,45415,45417],{"text":45410,"start":33723,"end":33816},"Ich muss sagen, mein mein oder die überraschende Erkenntnis aus dem Gespräch ist eigentlich, dass es bei dir jetzt gar nicht so klang, als ob das contentfreie Gestalten der Infrastruktur und der Plattform sone Challenge gewesen wär.",{"text":45412,"start":33819,"end":33868},"Was ja im Umkehrschluss son bisschen bedeutet, dass alle anderen, die das nicht machen, das sehr bewusst so nicht machen.",{"text":45414,"start":33870,"end":33924},"Also ne, ich glaube, man ist so darauf konditioniert als Benutzer, diese ganzen Cookie- und Content Banner so als gegeben hinzunehmen.",{"text":45416,"start":33924,"end":33963},"Und das müssen die halt machen, weil die brauchen das und die komischen Vorschriften und so, ja.",{"text":45418,"start":33965,"end":34062},"Aber bei dir ist ja ziemlich klar rausgekommen, nö, wenn man halt son bisschen von vornherein drüber nachdenkt so, ja, dann begern no offense, aber dann ist es halt nicht Rocket sign, so das.",129,{"sentences":45421,"speaker":181,"num_words":44749,"start":34062,"end":34153},[45422,45424,45425],{"text":45423,"start":34062,"end":34074},"Man man kann das machen.",{"text":5334,"start":34074,"end":34076},{"text":45426,"start":34076,"end":34153},"Und die Challenge hinter dem Produkt ist viel mehr, das den den Kunden zu erklären und zu sagen, was da irgendwie das Alleinstellungsmerkmal ist und so was, ja, als eine technische Challenge.",{"sentences":45428,"speaker":444,"num_words":45435,"start":34156,"end":34242},[45429,45431,45433],{"text":45430,"start":34156,"end":34161},"Ja, absolut.",{"text":45432,"start":34161,"end":34178},"Also auf dem Level glaub ich schon.",{"text":45434,"start":34178,"end":34242},"Ich glaub, was tatsächlich nicht so leicht zu replizieren ist, ist dieses nächste Level dann, diese komplette Trennung der Kunden, weil da wirklich superviel auf Infrastrukturebene passiert",36,{"sentences":45437,"speaker":181,"num_words":44492,"start":34244,"end":34299},[45438,45440,45441],{"text":45439,"start":34244,"end":34264},"und Aber das ist ja für euch als Plattformproblem.",{"text":318,"start":34267,"end":34268},{"text":45442,"start":34268,"end":34299},"Wenn ich jetzt für mich überlege, ich will Ach ja, okay.",{"sentences":45444,"speaker":160,"num_words":444,"start":34299,"end":34306},[45445],{"text":45446,"start":34299,"end":34306},"Ja, ja,",{"sentences":45448,"speaker":181,"num_words":45451,"start":34306,"end":34419},[45449],{"text":45450,"start":34306,"end":34419},"ein Appine Tool, ein Susting, ein irgendwas irgendwie so so aufbauen, dann dann müsst das ja eigentlich viel oder dann überrascht es mich nach dem Gespräch jetzt hier heute, dass nicht viel mehr Leute irgendwie darüber nachdenken, wie kriege ich das denn vielleicht konstantfrei hin?",45,{"sentences":45453,"speaker":444,"num_words":45179,"start":34419,"end":34637},[45454,45456,45458,45460,45462],{"text":45455,"start":34419,"end":34428},"Einhundert Prozent, ja.",{"text":45457,"start":34428,"end":34451},"Es ist am Ende ist es ja wenig Rocket Science.",{"text":45459,"start":34451,"end":34480},"Man muss nur eigentlich von Anfang an über nachdenken, wie man's hinstellt.",{"text":45461,"start":34480,"end":34628},"Und vielleicht ist das auch son bisschen die dass das Problem der der Legacy Plattformen, sag ich mal, dass die vielleicht auch schon so lange da sind, dass als die entstanden sind, der ganze fundamentale Tech Stack, den die haben, wie das wirklich vom vom Grundprinzip von der Infrastruktur, bei denen funktioniert, nicht darauf ausgelegt ist, dass es dass es ohne auskommt.",{"text":45463,"start":34628,"end":34637},"Ich weiß es nicht.",{"sentences":45465,"speaker":444,"num_words":160,"start":34637,"end":34639},[45466],{"text":4543,"start":34637,"end":34639},{"sentences":45468,"speaker":160,"num_words":44211,"start":34642,"end":34973},[45469,45471,45473,45475,45477],{"text":45470,"start":34642,"end":34730},"Aber hast Du dich auch, also ich mein, ich find ja interessant, dass Du ja den, ich sag zum ersten Mal den den Jan angesprochen, ich nicht an, also ja, ich mein den Jan Gregor m Getriebe.",{"text":45472,"start":34733,"end":34787},"Hast Du nicht vorhin damit ja auch selbst darauf schon son bisschen die Antwort gegeben, warum's am Ende auch nicht jeder macht so?",{"text":45474,"start":34787,"end":34844},"Ich mein, Du hast den anderen Jan da bisschen dafür verwirrt zu kritisieren, ja mit 9 Euro, wer zahlt denn 9 Euro?",{"text":45476,"start":34844,"end":34886},"Ich kann's doch überall auch umsonst haben, dass es am Ende auch sone Businessmodellfrage einfach son bisschen ist.",{"text":45478,"start":34886,"end":34973},"Also ich mein, natürlich habt ihr, ja, hast Du dann grade auch erzählt so die Schwierigkeiten, na ja, am Ende so irgendwie dann User Acquisition dafür zu machen und genau zu sehen, wie irgendwas funktioniert und so.",{"sentences":45480,"speaker":160,"num_words":44304,"start":34973,"end":35277},[45481,45483,45485,45487,45489],{"text":45482,"start":34973,"end":35015},"Man hat ja schon Schwierigkeiten daran, wenn wir jetzt einfach nur das Game Beispiel nimmst, so.",{"text":45484,"start":35015,"end":35110},"Wenn ich nicht tracken könnte, sozusagen meine UA Kampagnen gucken könnte, welcher User kamen da rein oder welche Kampagne kamen da rein, wie viel Geld haben wir am Ende verdient, dann funktioniert unser gesamtes Businessmodell einfach 0 Prozent.",{"text":45486,"start":35110,"end":35142},"So, wenn wir das nicht könnten, dann brauch ich das gar nicht machen.",{"text":45488,"start":35142,"end":35225},"Ich glaub, da draußen gibt's halt so Und gibt ja auch einige Businessmodelle, die einfach darauf basieren, sodass es halt eben eben nicht funktioniert, dass es für jeder 'n Service dann am Ende irgendwie bezahlt wird.",{"text":45490,"start":35225,"end":35277},"Deswegen glaub ich, ist es so, ist es halt eine Nische, die super-, supersinn macht und ich's auch richtig, richtig gut finde.",{"sentences":45492,"speaker":160,"num_words":44604,"start":35280,"end":35394},[45493,45495],{"text":45494,"start":35280,"end":35336},"Aber ja auch auch da die Frage ist so, gib dein Businessmodell es überhaupt her, dass Du dieses Ganze so in allem, überall irgendwie umsetzen willst?",{"text":45496,"start":35336,"end":35394},"Und ist es wirklich nur Faulheit oder an manchen Stellen auch einfach der grundlegende im Business Modell, sich dem zu unterwerfen?",{"sentences":45498,"speaker":181,"num_words":44795,"start":35397,"end":35437},[45499],{"text":45500,"start":35397,"end":35437},"Also ich bin voll bei dir zu sagen, es gibt bestimmt Sachen, da macht das keinen Sinn ohne,",{"sentences":45502,"speaker":160,"num_words":160,"start":35437,"end":35439},[45503],{"text":1168,"start":35437,"end":35439},{"sentences":45505,"speaker":181,"num_words":43928,"start":35439,"end":35639},[45506,45508,45510,45512,45514],{"text":45507,"start":35439,"end":35495},"Also ich glaub, man man muss nicht versuchen, auf Biegen und Brechen 'n Social Network zu bauen, ohne personenbezogene Daten, so, ja.",{"text":45509,"start":35497,"end":35536},"Und auch alle unsere Spiele haben ja diesen sozialen Aspekt, der sie da so befeuert, ja.",{"text":45511,"start":35536,"end":35567},"Also ich glaub, da macht es keinen Sinn, dagegen zu arbeiten oder so, ja.",{"text":45513,"start":35567,"end":35626},"Aber trotzdem ist es, glaub ich, legitim und sinnvoll, sich zu hinterfragen, ob das wirklich pauschal so für alle Produkte irgendwie gelten muss, ja.",{"text":45515,"start":35626,"end":35639},"Wenn ich mich jetzt Ja, das",{"sentences":45517,"speaker":160,"num_words":444,"start":35639,"end":35646},[45518],{"text":45519,"start":35639,"end":35646},"ist wahr.",{"sentences":45521,"speaker":181,"num_words":44783,"start":35650,"end":35788},[45522,45524,45526,45528,45530],{"text":45523,"start":35650,"end":35671},"Weiß nicht, bei meinem Podcast Player irgendwie anmelde.",{"text":45525,"start":35671,"end":35734},"Ja, also nicht mal bei meiner Podcasthosting Plattform, sondern nur mein Player, der meine ganzen Subscriptions verwaltet und wo ich irgendwie auf abspielen drücken kann.",{"text":45527,"start":35734,"end":35766},"Und der synkt vielleicht meine Subscription zwischen meinen Geräten hinterher so.",{"text":45529,"start":35766,"end":35782},"Warum warum braucht der 'n Content Banner?",{"text":45531,"start":35782,"end":35788},"So, ja.",{"sentences":45533,"speaker":181,"num_words":45540,"start":35788,"end":35962},[45534,45536,45538],{"text":45535,"start":35788,"end":35809},"Das kann man ja vielleicht einfach mal so so hinterfragen.",{"text":45537,"start":35809,"end":35912},"Und ich glaub schon, dass wir halt zu abgestumpft sind und das irgendwie so so hinnehmen und deshalb vielleicht auch gar nicht der Druck da ist bei vielen zu überlegen, ne, nehmen mir User das jetzt übel oder oder nicht oder so?",{"text":45539,"start":35914,"end":35962},"Aber nachdem, was wir heute gehört haben, glaub ich schon, dass das öfter eigentlich der Fall sein könnte, als es heutzutage ist.",74,{"sentences":45542,"speaker":160,"num_words":44587,"start":35962,"end":36010},[45543,45545,45546],{"text":45544,"start":35962,"end":35984},"Ja, das unterschreibe ich zu 100 Prozent auf jeden Fall.",{"text":5808,"start":35984,"end":35986},{"text":45547,"start":35986,"end":36010},"Dass sehr viel mehr Leute tun könnten, als sie aktuell tun.",{"sentences":45549,"speaker":444,"num_words":45033,"start":36010,"end":36254},[45550,45551,45553,45555,45556],{"text":5808,"start":36010,"end":36012},{"text":45552,"start":36012,"end":36125},"Und vielleicht auch da, es gibt ja auch Modelle und Cases, wo es, wo ich ja auch möchte, dass ich für den Service, den ich da vielleicht in Anspruch nehme, 'n Spiel ist ja auch irgendwie 'n Service, den ich dann genieße, weil ich da meinen Spaß hab.",{"text":45554,"start":36125,"end":36194},"Und wenn ich mit anderen zusammenspielen, sag ich, ja wunderbar, dafür leg ich mir 'n Account an, da heißt mein Username, meine E-Mail-Adresse und Passwort, whatever.",{"text":5808,"start":36196,"end":36197},{"text":45557,"start":36197,"end":36254},"Und das schick ich dann an euch, weil ihr mein Game Provider da seid und dann ist das cool, dann ist das auch der Deal.",{"sentences":45559,"speaker":444,"num_words":44868,"start":36257,"end":36574},[45560,45562,45564,45566,45568],{"text":45561,"start":36257,"end":36309},"Das geht dann eher weiter, was ist dann, also was was passiert dann aber ohne mein vielleicht mein Zutun mit meinen Daten im Hintergrund?",{"text":45563,"start":36309,"end":36412},"Und da ist ja eigentlich sozusagen das, ne, EU Regulation oder man kann's vielleicht auch Werte sagen, dass man mitbestimmen darf darüber, was mit meinen eigenen personenbezogenen Daten passiert, zumindest ohne dass ich sonst eventuell wissen würde, eine feine Sache.",{"text":45565,"start":36412,"end":36475},"Aber in dem Fall zum Beispiel ist es ja Teil auch des der Services und damit der Qualität und dann ist das dann ist das in Ordnung.",{"text":45567,"start":36475,"end":36525},"Und auf der anderen Seite, zum Beispiel bei uns, wir richten uns ja jetzt rein auch an an Unternehmen, sag ich mal.",{"text":45569,"start":36525,"end":36574},"Egal wie klein, das können Einzelselbständige, was weiß ich, irgendwelche Web Freelancer sein, aber auch halt große Läden.",{"sentences":45571,"speaker":444,"num_words":45576,"start":36574,"end":36690},[45572,45574],{"text":45573,"start":36574,"end":36619},"Die haben ja eigentlich immer irgendein Interesse, was sie ihr Produkt verkaufen wollen oder ihre Leistung oder ihr WhatsAppever.",{"text":45575,"start":36623,"end":36690},"Und die haben ja eigentlich überhaupt nix damit am Hut, ob jetzt das, also das mit den Daten, deren Besucher jetzt irgendwie noch, dass Youtube da noch was von hat.",49,{"sentences":45578,"speaker":160,"num_words":43748,"start":36692,"end":36909},[45579,45581,45583,45585,45587],{"text":45580,"start":36692,"end":36700},"Also das Ja.",{"text":45582,"start":36700,"end":36774},"Also ich geh aber auf jeden Fall mit und das wär ja auch wünschenswert wirklich, wenn wir einfach einige Seiten hätten, wo wir diese leidigen Banner nicht mehr haben müssten.",{"text":45584,"start":36774,"end":36786},"Das wär wirklich eine Traumveranstaltung.",{"text":45586,"start":36786,"end":36891},"Vor allem ist es ja auch meistens ist die UX von diesen Bannern, die häufig schon auf Seiten waren, einfach so ich daran gehindert war, irgendwas zu machen auf der Mobile View, weil der weil ich's Banner nicht wegbekommen hab, so.",{"text":45588,"start":36891,"end":36909},"Also so schlechte Banner gehören ja auch dazu.",{"sentences":45590,"speaker":160,"num_words":44492,"start":36909,"end":36961},[45591],{"text":45592,"start":36909,"end":36961},"Das sind, vielleicht, die am wenigsten getesteten Features auf der Seite, das ist das erste, mit dem man in Kontakt kommt.",{"sentences":45594,"speaker":444,"num_words":45599,"start":36961,"end":37021},[45595,45597],{"text":45596,"start":36961,"end":37014},"Ja, wobei das Lustige auch ist, dass ja auch da drum rum auch eine komplette Industrie entstanden ist, diese Content Management Plattform.",{"text":45598,"start":37017,"end":37021},"Es ist",24,{"sentences":45601,"speaker":160,"num_words":44258,"start":37021,"end":37262},[45602,45604,45606],{"text":45603,"start":37021,"end":37039},"und das ist die Hölle, da mitzuarbeiten.",{"text":45605,"start":37043,"end":37051},"Es ist die Hölle.",{"text":45607,"start":37051,"end":37262},"Also das ist, glaub ich, eine so NebenDP, also alles, was mit Datenschutz zu tun hat und mit dem ich mich beschäftigen muss in meinem Entwickleralltag, ist wirklich das Schlimmste überhaupt, überhaupt zu verstehen, was diese Plattform machen und in welchen Ländern, was irgendwie wie funktioniert und wo's ob in ist, wo's ob out ist so, wie man mit den verschiedenen, wie die eigentlich die Information bekommen, wo ich's explizit sitzen muss, wer sich's direkt aus irgendwie dem TFA holt und so.",{"sentences":45609,"speaker":181,"num_words":45615,"start":37264,"end":37411},[45610,45612,45614],{"text":45611,"start":37264,"end":37364},"Auch wenn ich das gerne als Schlusswort stehen lassen wollen würde, dass Content Management Provider irgendwie die reine Hölle sind, haben wir noch unsere klassische Abschlussfrage, die wir jetzt Jan auch noch stellen müssen, nämlich, welche Frage haben wir dir nicht gestellt?",{"text":45613,"start":37364,"end":37408},"Über welches Thema wolltest Du unbedingt sprechen und ärgerst dich grade, dass weder Fabi noch richtig danach gefragt haben?",{"text":37412,"start":37410,"end":37411},62,{"sentences":45617,"speaker":444,"num_words":45622,"start":37414,"end":37479},[45618,45620],{"text":45619,"start":37414,"end":37440},"Ah ja, wir sind da einmal wirklich durch alles irgendwie durchgeritten.",{"text":45621,"start":37443,"end":37479},"Ich wüsste auf meiner Liste, also auf meiner Liste, wie die sieht nicht vorhanden ist.",26,{"sentences":45624,"speaker":160,"num_words":43697,"start":37482,"end":37490},[45625],{"text":45626,"start":37482,"end":37490},"Wie wir zumindest sehen,",{"sentences":45628,"speaker":181,"num_words":444,"start":37490,"end":37496},[45629],{"text":45630,"start":37490,"end":37496},"ihr nicht.",{"sentences":45632,"speaker":160,"num_words":43899,"start":37496,"end":37529},[45633,45635],{"text":45634,"start":37496,"end":37519},"Aber ja, ich kenn wirklich auf deine Liste da.",{"text":45636,"start":37519,"end":37529},"Er hat nichts abgehakt.",{"sentences":45638,"speaker":444,"num_words":226,"start":37529,"end":37566},[45639,45641],{"text":45640,"start":37529,"end":37563},"Genau, meine meine Agenda, die mir meinen PR Berater mitgegeben hat.",{"text":37567,"start":37563,"end":37566},{"sentences":45643,"speaker":181,"num_words":44734,"start":37569,"end":37577},[45644],{"text":45645,"start":37569,"end":37577},"Nee, Ich glaub,",{"sentences":45647,"speaker":444,"num_words":43928,"start":37577,"end":37776},[45648,45650,45652],{"text":45649,"start":37577,"end":37600},"wir sind tatsächlich einmal durch durch alles irgendwie irgendwie durchgerast.",{"text":45651,"start":37604,"end":37735},"So vor allem ja, das Thema, was mir irgendwie bisschen aufm Herzen liegt, ist ist gar nicht mal rein unser Produkt, was mir sehr am Herzen liegt, aber dieses mal zu challengen, ob das ob's nicht besser geht mit der mit der Webexperience, grade irgendwie trotz trotz GDPA, halt trotz DSGVO, weil meistens tut's das.",{"text":45653,"start":37737,"end":37776},"Ich fänd's schön, einfach wieder auf mehr Webseiten zu sein, wo kein kein Banner irgendwie Pflicht ist.",{"sentences":45655,"speaker":160,"num_words":45451,"start":37779,"end":37897},[45656,45658,45660],{"text":45657,"start":37779,"end":37841},"Herr Kuhmilch, wenn ich das so ein checkt doch mal irgendwas aus würd sagen, wir machen das Ganze auch noch mal mit der Programmierbarseite.",{"text":45659,"start":37845,"end":37883},"Und übrigens, ich hab 'n paar Jahre geguckt, ich hab übrigens keinen Banner bei uns gesehen.",{"text":45661,"start":37883,"end":37897},"Also ich, weil wir hab's",{"sentences":45663,"speaker":181,"num_words":43639,"start":37899,"end":37911},[45664],{"text":45665,"start":37899,"end":37911},"So, ich hab ich hab doch",{"sentences":45667,"speaker":160,"num_words":44397,"start":37913,"end":37963},[45668,45670,45672],{"text":45669,"start":37913,"end":37921},"schon mal was gesehen.",{"text":45671,"start":37921,"end":37949},"Ja, also wir machen das in meinem Nachgang so, also genau.",{"text":45673,"start":37951,"end":37963},"Bevor wir meine Seite Hoffentlich",{"sentences":45675,"speaker":181,"num_words":44715,"start":37963,"end":38012},[45676,45678],{"text":45677,"start":37963,"end":37989},"bevor wir die Folge veröffentlichen, kriegen wir noch Ärger.",{"text":45679,"start":37989,"end":38012},"Genau so wie Du mit der Website von deiner Frau.",{"sentences":45681,"speaker":160,"num_words":43955,"start":38012,"end":38145},[45682,45684,45686,45688],{"text":45683,"start":38012,"end":38018},"Genau, ja.",{"text":45685,"start":38018,"end":38092},"Also gebt uns da gerne Feedback, wenn ihr, egal auf welcher Homepage von uns, sie mit uns zu tun oder was findet, Schwerzt uns nicht an, schickt uns eine Mail.",{"text":45687,"start":38092,"end":38123},"Wir sind sehr offen dafür, Dinge zu verändern, wenn ihr Dinge findet.",{"text":45689,"start":38123,"end":38145},"So bitte, ein Podcast at Programmier Punkt bar.",{"sentences":45691,"speaker":181,"num_words":44045,"start":38148,"end":38232},[45692,45693,45695,45697,45699],{"text":38151,"start":38148,"end":38149},{"text":45694,"start":38153,"end":38175},"Dann bleibt uns nur noch 1 am Ende, nämlich Die.",{"text":45696,"start":38178,"end":38184},"Nein, Stimmt.",{"text":45698,"start":38188,"end":38198},"Mehrere und ein Day.",{"text":45700,"start":38198,"end":38232},"Es ist nicht ein Pick über mehrere Immer das Mathe übrigens auch immer",{"sentences":45702,"speaker":160,"num_words":43899,"start":38232,"end":38272},[45703,45705],{"text":45704,"start":38232,"end":38242},"im Arbeitskontext falsch.",{"text":45706,"start":38242,"end":38272},"Jedes Mal, wenn wir über einen Point of Sale reden",{"sentences":45708,"speaker":181,"num_words":43639,"start":38274,"end":38289},[45709],{"text":45710,"start":38274,"end":38289},"Ja, es ist Points of Sale.",{"sentences":45712,"speaker":160,"num_words":45021,"start":38289,"end":38310},[45713],{"text":45714,"start":38289,"end":38310},"Genau, wir sagen mal Point of Sales, ja.",{"sentences":45716,"speaker":181,"num_words":44087,"start":38312,"end":38333},[45717],{"text":45718,"start":38312,"end":38333},"Das ist auch richtig, aber Du hast halt nur einen.",{"sentences":45720,"speaker":160,"num_words":444,"start":38333,"end":38340},[45721],{"text":45722,"start":38333,"end":38340},"Ja, genau.",{"sentences":45724,"speaker":181,"num_words":45021,"start":38340,"end":38362},[45725,45727],{"text":45726,"start":38340,"end":38354},"Also vielleicht dann damit mehr Verkäufer.",{"text":45728,"start":38358,"end":38362},"Na ja.",{"sentences":45730,"speaker":160,"num_words":44587,"start":38362,"end":38421},[45731,45733],{"text":45732,"start":38362,"end":38370},"Wie auch immer.",{"text":45734,"start":38370,"end":38421},"Also irgendwas in der Mehrzahl und in diesem Fall geht's einen oder mehrere Pick of Picks of the day.",{"sentences":45736,"speaker":181,"num_words":45742,"start":38425,"end":38470},[45737,45738,45740],{"text":38429,"start":38425,"end":38426},{"text":45739,"start":38431,"end":38461},"Du hast gesagt, Du hast in den nächsten 60 Minuten dir was ausgesucht.",{"text":45741,"start":38461,"end":38470},"Was hat Ich",17,{"sentences":45744,"speaker":160,"num_words":45749,"start":38470,"end":38576},[45745,45747],{"text":45746,"start":38470,"end":38528},"hatte gleich im Vorhinein was, ein Tool über den, das mit dem wir beide auch drüber diskutiert haben, asynchron im Chat vorhin.",{"text":45748,"start":38528,"end":38576},"Und zwar ist das Ganze, wenn ich mit LLMs interagiere und nicht mehr oder warst Du gar nicht Teil",41,{"sentences":45751,"speaker":181,"num_words":44324,"start":38576,"end":38593},[45752,45754],{"text":45753,"start":38576,"end":38582},"der Confritte?",{"text":45755,"start":38582,"end":38593},"Ich überleg grad.",{"sentences":45757,"speaker":160,"num_words":43753,"start":38596,"end":38657},[45758,45760],{"text":45759,"start":38596,"end":38642},"Auf jeden Fall ist unser aller Interaktion mit LLMs wahrscheinlich nur, geht nur nach oben, was die Zeit angeht.",{"text":45761,"start":38642,"end":38657},"Und vieles davon hab ich Ah,",{"sentences":45763,"speaker":181,"num_words":44324,"start":38657,"end":38673},[45764],{"text":45765,"start":38657,"end":38673},"ich war ja typisch, sondern",{"sentences":45767,"speaker":160,"num_words":45252,"start":38675,"end":38756},[45768,45770],{"text":45769,"start":38675,"end":38750},"bei uns hat's viele wirklich mit Leute zugebracht zu sagen, zumindest wenn ich jetzt nicht im im Office sitze, wo alle meine Kollegen neben dran sitzen, zumindest im Homeoffice.",{"text":45771,"start":38750,"end":38756},"Das hab",{"sentences":45773,"speaker":181,"num_words":44795,"start":38756,"end":38805},[45774],{"text":45775,"start":38756,"end":38805},"ich mir nämlich überlegt, wie ihr alle oben in der Station sitzt und parallel mit euren Rechnern arbeitet.",{"sentences":45777,"speaker":160,"num_words":43988,"start":38805,"end":39029},[45778,45779,45781,45783,45785],{"text":318,"start":38805,"end":38808},{"text":45780,"start":38808,"end":38859},"Und wir laden mit unseren Rechnern, meistens noch nicht, wenn Arbeitskollegen neben dran sitzen, aber vielleicht wird sich auch das verändern.",{"text":45782,"start":38862,"end":38923},"Und dafür sind zumindest so der zumindest der lokale Support jetzt einfach auf unsere Betriebssystem noch nicht so perfekt, dass wir dafür externe Tools nutzen.",{"text":45784,"start":38923,"end":38957},"Und 1, was ich oder viele bei uns eine Firma nutzen, gut finden, ist Whisperflow.",{"text":45786,"start":38961,"end":39029},"Wirklich, was es extrem gut macht, mit 'nem einfachen Shortcut überall einfach reinsprechen zu können, sehr gut das transkribiert zu bekommen oder möchte auch zusammengefasst zu bekommen.",{"sentences":45788,"speaker":160,"num_words":45795,"start":39031,"end":39281},[45789,45791,45793],{"text":45790,"start":39031,"end":39149},"Wo ich jetzt echt sagen muss, also wenn ich daheimsitze, ich schreibe nichts mehr, wenn ich mit meinem LLM interagiere und auch nicht mehr, wenn ich Mails verfasse oder ähnlich, sondern der erste wird per Voice gemacht so und das hat noch gar nicht so lang.",{"text":45792,"start":39149,"end":39249},"Und Whisper Flow ist einfach 'n cooles Tool, gibt auch einige andere da draußen, aber das war jetzt das, was in der, also ich hab's noch in der Free Variante, aber Kostenpunkt, glaub ich, 12 Euro im Monat sind.",{"text":45794,"start":39251,"end":39281},"Weiß gar nicht, was genau die Grenze ist, da bauen man da rein dadrin",99,{"sentences":45797,"speaker":181,"num_words":43697,"start":39285,"end":39295},[45798],{"text":45799,"start":39285,"end":39295},"2000 Wörter die Woche.",{"sentences":45801,"speaker":160,"num_words":43710,"start":39295,"end":39423},[45802,45803,45805,45807,45809],{"text":45799,"start":39295,"end":39305},{"text":45804,"start":39305,"end":39322},"Also ich werde sehr schnell dadran stoßen.",{"text":45806,"start":39322,"end":39330},"Ich glaub auch.",{"text":45808,"start":39333,"end":39359},"Aber ich glaube wirklich, spart mir echt einiges einiges an Zeit.",{"text":45810,"start":39359,"end":39423},"Ich finde auch, wenn in dem Set-up Flow find ich ganz interessant, da vergleichen sie dann auch, wie schnell man redet und wie schnell man tippt.",{"sentences":45812,"speaker":160,"num_words":44749,"start":39423,"end":39518},[45813,45815,45817,45819,45821],{"text":45814,"start":39423,"end":39475},"Dann kann man son bisschen mal kurz antippen, wie schnell man denn selbst tippt, ob man wirklich so schnell ist, wie man glaubt.",{"text":45816,"start":39478,"end":39488},"Macht auf jeden Fall Spaß.",{"text":45818,"start":39488,"end":39505},"Dieser Onboarding Flow ist ganz cool.",{"text":45820,"start":39505,"end":39511},"Coole App.",{"text":45822,"start":39511,"end":39518},"Whisper Flow.",{"sentences":45824,"speaker":181,"num_words":45615,"start":39518,"end":39670},[45825,45827,45829,45831,45833],{"text":45826,"start":39518,"end":39540},"Ich bin gespannt, wenn ihr das jetzt alle benutzt.",{"text":45828,"start":39540,"end":39552},"Ich hab's ja noch nicht.",{"text":45830,"start":39554,"end":39587},"Und das ist ja so aufgekommen, wie Du gesagt hast in diesem LRM Kontext.",{"text":45832,"start":39587,"end":39637},"Ich frag mich wirklich, also ja, ich glaub, man redet mehr und gibt mehr Kontext mit, als man tippen würde, Ja.",{"text":45834,"start":39639,"end":39670},"Weil man einfach son bisschen tippfaul ist und beim Reden fällt's einem leichter.",{"sentences":45836,"speaker":181,"num_words":45615,"start":39673,"end":39821},[45837,45839,45841,45843],{"text":45838,"start":39673,"end":39722},"Ich bin noch nicht überzeugt, ob das auch wirklich technisch sinnvoller ist, weil Du natürlich auch einfach mehr reinbrabelst so, ne.",{"text":45840,"start":39722,"end":39779},"Wenn Du 'n prompt tippst, bist Du sehr, also tippst Du ja sehr bewusst und überlegst dir, was kommt da rein und was nicht.",{"text":45842,"start":39779,"end":39817},"Und dementsprechend, weiß nicht, trägt das vielleicht was zur Promptqualität bei oder eben auch nicht?",{"text":45844,"start":39817,"end":39821},"Ja, gespannt.",{"sentences":45846,"speaker":160,"num_words":44149,"start":39824,"end":39967},[45847,45849,45851,45853,45855],{"text":45848,"start":39824,"end":39853},"Ich glaub, die ist einfach, ich mein, die ist ja jetzt schon weniger wichtig.",{"text":45850,"start":39853,"end":39875},"Es wird immer weniger wichtig sein, dass Du's perfekt strukturierst.",{"text":45852,"start":39875,"end":39921},"Also ich mein, wir haben schon damals in der Anfangszeit so dieses Ding von wird irgendwie mal 'n Ding sein.",{"text":45854,"start":39921,"end":39950},"Schon damals war ja schon immer meine These so, nee, wird's nicht.",{"text":45856,"start":39950,"end":39967},"Also wird immer weniger 'n Ding sein so.",{"sentences":45858,"speaker":160,"num_words":45867,"start":39967,"end":40231},[45859,45861,45863,45865],{"text":45860,"start":39967,"end":40024},"Dass Du genau definierst, wie dein ist, wird einfach später irgendwann komplett egal sein, da kannst Du so viel Fehler reinhauen, wie Du willst.",{"text":45862,"start":40026,"end":40089},"Und auch das ist das schon, was wir ehrlicherweise jetzt sehen bei den Anwendungsfällen, wie wir's tagtäglich nutzen, lieber mehr Kontext als irgendwie ganz genau ausformuliert.",{"text":45864,"start":40089,"end":40197},"Es geht ja jetzt nicht diesen so reproducible prompt, der jetzt irgendwie in deiner in deinem Agent irgendwie, den Du an die Endkunden gibst, dann da immer reproduzierbar dasselbe Ergebnis, die man will, sondern eigentlich, Du willst damit interagieren, Du willst deine Features erklären.",{"text":45866,"start":40197,"end":40231},"Da ist immer lieber mehr Kontext, als dir genau zu überlegen, was Du da reinschreibst.",109,{"sentences":45869,"speaker":181,"num_words":43658,"start":40234,"end":40254},[45870,45872],{"text":45871,"start":40234,"end":40241},"Ja, fair.",{"text":45873,"start":40245,"end":40254},"Jan, was hast Du dabei?",{"sentences":45875,"speaker":444,"num_words":45885,"start":40257,"end":40426},[45876,45878,45880,45882,45883],{"text":45877,"start":40257,"end":40284},"Ich find erstens Whisperflow auch gut, find ich feine App.",{"text":45879,"start":40284,"end":40364},"Und ich hatte erst noch was anderes im Kopf, aber in dem Kontext Whisperflow, wo Du's grade saß, von der Extension, ohne die ich mittlerweile überhaupt nicht mehr auskomme, ist Language Tool.",{"text":45881,"start":40367,"end":40379},"Weiß nicht, wer das kennt?",{"text":40383,"start":40379,"end":40382},{"text":45884,"start":40385,"end":40426},"Aber Language Tool ist, weiß ich nicht, so vielleicht eine eher eine Alternative zu Grammerly oder so was.",66,{"sentences":45887,"speaker":444,"num_words":44749,"start":40426,"end":40529},[45888,45890,45891,45893,45895],{"text":45889,"start":40426,"end":40444},"Ist, glaub ich, sogar 'n deutsches Tool.",{"text":6353,"start":40447,"end":40448},{"text":45892,"start":40451,"end":40471},"Als Browserextension oder auch halt generell im Betriebssystem.",{"text":45894,"start":40474,"end":40490},"Mittlerweile auch irgendwie KI supportet mit Formulierungsvorschlägen.",{"text":45896,"start":40493,"end":40529},"Auf jeden Fall ohne dieses Tool kriege ich gefühlt keinen keinen geraden Satz mehr raus.",{"sentences":45898,"speaker":444,"num_words":43720,"start":40529,"end":40562},[45899],{"text":45900,"start":40529,"end":40562},"Das ist vor allem auch mit deutscher Grammatik gut, bin ich großer Fan von.",{"sentences":45902,"speaker":181,"num_words":43720,"start":40565,"end":40603},[45903,45905],{"text":45904,"start":40565,"end":40578},"Bin ich concent frei.",{"text":45906,"start":40578,"end":40603},"Direkt auf der Seite, direkt mit 'nem mit 'nem Contentblog.",{"sentences":45908,"speaker":160,"num_words":44397,"start":40607,"end":40665},[45909],{"text":45910,"start":40607,"end":40665},"Ich bin mir gar nicht aufmachen, hab ich schon mal weggeguckt, ich hab installiert, die Cro Extension ist schon drin.",{"sentences":45912,"speaker":444,"num_words":44734,"start":40667,"end":40676},[45913],{"text":45914,"start":40667,"end":40676},"Ich glaube, so",{"sentences":45916,"speaker":160,"num_words":43651,"start":40676,"end":40708},[45917],{"text":45918,"start":40676,"end":40708},"weg mit den Menschen ist Deutsch, gar nicht auf der Homepage.",{"sentences":45920,"speaker":444,"num_words":45749,"start":40711,"end":40810},[45921,45923,45925,45927],{"text":45922,"start":40711,"end":40723},"Nee, finde ich finde ich mega.",{"text":45924,"start":40723,"end":40779},"Ich bin da, glaube ich, schon seit 6, 7 Jahren tatsächlich zahlender Kunde sogar und das ganze KI Kram kam logischerweise später.",{"text":45926,"start":40779,"end":40806},"Aber das ist auch eine Extension, ohne die ich nicht mehr möchte.",{"text":40811,"start":40809,"end":40810},{"sentences":45929,"speaker":160,"num_words":43639,"start":40810,"end":40827},[45930],{"text":45931,"start":40810,"end":40827},"Wird jetzt ausprobiert, ist schon drin.",{"sentences":45933,"speaker":181,"num_words":444,"start":40829,"end":40834},[45934],{"text":45935,"start":40829,"end":40834},"Direkt konzentretisch.",{"sentences":45937,"speaker":160,"num_words":44492,"start":40838,"end":40888},[45938,45940],{"text":45939,"start":40838,"end":40875},"Willst Du noch dein andere, die war ja jetzt son bisschen auf so das dir eingefallen.",{"text":45941,"start":40875,"end":40888},"Du kannst auch gerne Also",{"sentences":45943,"speaker":444,"num_words":43804,"start":40888,"end":41055},[45944,45946,45948],{"text":45945,"start":40888,"end":40902},"ja, der mein anderer Genau.",{"text":45947,"start":40906,"end":41014},"Days in dem Fall war es eigentlich gestern, denn ja noch spät im ICE unterwegs, ist Abendessen früh entgangen gegangen und da freu ich mich dann, dass es so leckeres Chili im Bahnbistro der Deutschen Bahn gibt.",{"text":45949,"start":41014,"end":41055},"Das ist immer, kann man kann man machen, sowohl Con- als auch Sinkarne ist es",{"sentences":45951,"speaker":181,"num_words":43697,"start":41058,"end":41068},[45952],{"text":45953,"start":41058,"end":41068},"Was so beide probiert?",{"sentences":45955,"speaker":444,"num_words":43899,"start":41072,"end":41101},[45956],{"text":45957,"start":41072,"end":41101},"Ja, je nachdem, was halt irgendwie grade so der Mut des Tages ist.",{"sentences":45959,"speaker":160,"num_words":44749,"start":41101,"end":41204},[45960,45962],{"text":45961,"start":41101,"end":41195},"An der Stelle würd ich sagen, gehen auch Grüße raus an den Dennis, wenn man nämlich im Vorgespräch darüber redet, dass so eigentlich nur der Dennis macht mit Fahrradfahren oder also diese diese Alltagsdinge so.",{"text":45963,"start":41197,"end":41204},"Oder mittlerweile abgewöhnt.",{"sentences":45965,"speaker":181,"num_words":43899,"start":41208,"end":41237},[45966,45968],{"text":45967,"start":41208,"end":41231},"Dann bin ich gespannt, was Du jetzt zu meinem gleich sagst.",{"text":45969,"start":41231,"end":41237},"Oh, ich",{"sentences":45971,"speaker":160,"num_words":43697,"start":41237,"end":41247},[45972],{"text":45973,"start":41237,"end":41247},"bin ja auch gespannt.",{"sentences":45975,"speaker":181,"num_words":45599,"start":41247,"end":41307},[45976,45978,45979],{"text":45977,"start":41247,"end":41265},"Mein Pick kommt nämlich 2 Jahre zu spät.",{"text":5808,"start":41268,"end":41269},{"text":45980,"start":41273,"end":41307},"Und zwar hab ich hier diese Apple Watch, die hab ich seit ziemlich genau Oh",{"sentences":45982,"speaker":160,"num_words":444,"start":41307,"end":41315},[45983],{"text":45984,"start":41307,"end":41315},"Gott, ja.",{"sentences":45986,"speaker":181,"num_words":444,"start":41317,"end":41321},[45987],{"text":45988,"start":41317,"end":41321},"2 Jahren.",{"sentences":45990,"speaker":160,"num_words":43697,"start":41324,"end":41333},[45991],{"text":45992,"start":41324,"end":41333},"Irgendwas mit Apple Watch.",{"sentences":45994,"speaker":181,"num_words":45033,"start":41333,"end":41592},[45995,45996,45998,46000,46002],{"text":5808,"start":41333,"end":41336},{"text":45997,"start":41339,"end":41373},"Und es ist ja sone Apple Watch Ultra und die gibt's ja nur mit LTE.",{"text":45999,"start":41376,"end":41437},"So, aber ich war immer sehr geizig, weil ich hab ja keinen extra Handyvertrag jetzt nur für meine Uhr oder so, fand ich vollkommen schwachsinnig.",{"text":46001,"start":41440,"end":41478},"Bis jetzt 'n Handyvertrag bekommen hab, wo SIM Karten bis zum Zuwerfen dabei war.",{"text":46003,"start":41481,"end":41592},"Und der hatte keinen son SIM Cut dazu, da hab ich bei meinem Anbieter angerufen und hab gesagt, hey, kann ich da eine E-Sim haben für meine Uhr, weil diese ganzen physischen SIM Karten, die ihr mir geschickt habt, die brauch ich irgendwie alle gar nicht.",{"sentences":46005,"speaker":181,"num_words":43955,"start":41592,"end":41710},[46006,46008,46010,46012,46014],{"text":46007,"start":41592,"end":41606},"Und dann haben die das gemacht.",{"text":46009,"start":41606,"end":41639},"Und jetzt hab ich seit 2 Wochen oder so, also Internet immer auf die Uhr.",{"text":46011,"start":41639,"end":41662},"Und da ist ja abgefahren, wie krass das ist.",{"text":46013,"start":41662,"end":41689},"Also Du Du guckst mich grade an wie son Auto oder so.",{"text":46015,"start":41689,"end":41710},"Ja, wahrscheinlich, weil Du das noch nie gehabt hast, oder?",{"sentences":46017,"speaker":160,"num_words":226,"start":41712,"end":41744},[46018,46020,46022],{"text":46019,"start":41712,"end":41726},"Einfach Apple Watches braucht doch niemand.",{"text":46021,"start":41726,"end":41737},"Ist doch 'n Quatsch.",{"text":46023,"start":41737,"end":41744},"Hast Du",{"sentences":46025,"speaker":444,"num_words":45021,"start":41744,"end":41763},[46026,46028],{"text":46027,"start":41744,"end":41759},"nicht hast Du nicht 'n Apple Watches.",{"text":3985,"start":41759,"end":41763},{"sentences":46030,"speaker":181,"num_words":44324,"start":41765,"end":41775},[46031],{"text":46032,"start":41765,"end":41775},"hast 'n für 'n Uhr?",{"sentences":46034,"speaker":160,"num_words":444,"start":41775,"end":41782},[46035],{"text":46036,"start":41775,"end":41782},"Gar keine.",{"sentences":46038,"speaker":181,"num_words":226,"start":41782,"end":41809},[46039],{"text":46040,"start":41782,"end":41809},"Ach so, nee, weil Dennis hat Dennis hat eine Apple Watch, ne?",{"sentences":46042,"speaker":160,"num_words":43639,"start":41809,"end":41827},[46043],{"text":46044,"start":41809,"end":41827},"Ja, also jedes Mal, wenn, ja.",{"sentences":46046,"speaker":181,"num_words":43928,"start":41827,"end":42027},[46047,46049,46051,46053,46055],{"text":46048,"start":41827,"end":41849},"Ja, aber also Anyway, ich guck Anyway, ja.",{"text":46050,"start":41849,"end":41872},"Ja, guck mich ruhig noch 'n bisschen böse an dabei.",{"text":46052,"start":41875,"end":41958},"Aber es ist schon son noch mal son sehr anderes Gerät, wenn Du's auf einmal quasi benutzen kannst, wirklich dein Handy irgendwie zu Hause zu lassen, weil Du genau weißt, Du kannst irgendwie angerufen werden.",{"text":46054,"start":41958,"end":41978},"Du kannst irgendwie selber jemanden anrufen, wenn was passiert.",{"text":46056,"start":41978,"end":42027},"Du kannst deine Musik unterwegs da mit streamen, ohne dir irgendwie Gedanken darüber machen zu müssen, was offline oder so.",{"sentences":46058,"speaker":181,"num_words":46069,"start":42027,"end":42197},[46059,46061,46063,46065,46067],{"text":46060,"start":42027,"end":42050},"Es ist schon noch mal sehr, sehr, sehr viel anders.",{"text":46062,"start":42050,"end":42094},"Ich würde niemals dafür extra Geld ausgeben, aber wenn's halt irgendwie im Vertrag mit Trainingsman das nehmen kann.",{"text":46064,"start":42094,"end":42160},"Es ist echt 'n cooles Feature, deshalb 2 Jahre zu spät jetzt meine Uhr auch mit LTE, was schon immer eingebaut war und jetzt endlich mal benutzt wird.",{"text":46066,"start":42160,"end":42177},"Mein Modem freut sich grade son bisschen.",{"text":46068,"start":42180,"end":42197},"Willst Du noch 'n bisschen renten, Fabi?",70,{"sentences":46071,"speaker":181,"num_words":44324,"start":42197,"end":42211},[46072],{"text":46073,"start":42197,"end":42211},"Dann hau jetzt ruhig raus.",{"sentences":46075,"speaker":160,"num_words":43692,"start":42211,"end":42274},[46076,46078],{"text":46077,"start":42211,"end":42231},"Ja, wir sind schon super weit in der Folge.",{"text":46079,"start":42231,"end":42274},"Ich denk, also jetzt ist wirklich, ich mein, wie oft hast Du denn dein Handy jetzt seitdem daheimgelassen?",{"sentences":46081,"speaker":181,"num_words":226,"start":42277,"end":42304},[46082],{"text":46083,"start":42277,"end":42304},"Schon öfter mal, welches spazieren geht draußen bei uns oder so, ja.",{"sentences":46085,"speaker":444,"num_words":43720,"start":42306,"end":42337},[46086],{"text":46087,"start":42306,"end":42337},"Dann ist es wichtig, dass man dann auf jeden Fall immer noch Internet Also",{"sentences":46089,"speaker":160,"num_words":43697,"start":42337,"end":42348},[46090],{"text":46091,"start":42337,"end":42348},"allein bin ich, ist",{"sentences":46093,"speaker":181,"num_words":45021,"start":42350,"end":42368},[46094],{"text":46095,"start":42350,"end":42368},"Irgendwo müssen ja die Podcasts herkommen, also bitte.",{"sentences":46097,"speaker":160,"num_words":43678,"start":42371,"end":42459},[46098,46100],{"text":46099,"start":42371,"end":42386},"Ja, also wirklich so einfach noch mehr.",{"text":46101,"start":42386,"end":42459},"Man wird ja nicht schon häufig genug von seinen Handys abgelenkt, dann gerne auch noch eine Uhr, die mir andauern, so, wo ich sofort drauf gucken kann, wenn's irgendwas kommt.",{"sentences":46103,"speaker":444,"num_words":43697,"start":42459,"end":42473},[46104],{"text":46105,"start":42459,"end":42473},"Das Smartphone Detox Light.",{"sentences":46107,"speaker":160,"num_words":44476,"start":42473,"end":42496},[46108,46110],{"text":46109,"start":42473,"end":42492},"Oh, es ist ein grauenhaftes Produkt, wirklich.",{"text":45598,"start":42492,"end":42496},{"sentences":46112,"speaker":181,"num_words":44476,"start":42498,"end":42525},[46113,46115],{"text":46114,"start":42498,"end":42516},"Ist das Nikotinpflaster des Smartphones Ressourcen?",{"text":46116,"start":42519,"end":42525},"Also wirklich einfach.",{"sentences":46118,"speaker":444,"num_words":43697,"start":42525,"end":42540},[46119],{"text":46120,"start":42525,"end":42540},"Ja, in kleiner Dosis.",{"sentences":46122,"speaker":160,"num_words":43899,"start":42540,"end":42578},[46123],{"text":46124,"start":42540,"end":42578},"Alle Smartwatches in die Tonne drücken und die Welt ist eine bessere, wirklich.",{"sentences":46126,"speaker":444,"num_words":46133,"start":42578,"end":42620},[46127,46129,46131],{"text":46128,"start":42578,"end":42594},"Das kann ich jetzt nicht so zustimmen.",{"text":46130,"start":42594,"end":42612},"Ich bin ich bin Garmin Nutzer.",{"text":46132,"start":42612,"end":42620},"Mit 'nem",15,{"sentences":46135,"speaker":160,"num_words":44324,"start":42624,"end":42641},[46136,46138,46140],{"text":46137,"start":42624,"end":42631},"sympathischere Smartwatch.",{"text":46139,"start":42634,"end":42637},"Ach komm.",{"text":42643,"start":42640,"end":42641},{"sentences":46142,"speaker":181,"num_words":45021,"start":42641,"end":42667},[46143,46145],{"text":46144,"start":42641,"end":42654},"Ist ja auch wirklich.",{"text":46146,"start":42654,"end":42667},"Wir sind hier fertig.",{"sentences":46148,"speaker":160,"num_words":43710,"start":42667,"end":42793},[46149,46151,46153],{"text":46150,"start":42667,"end":42730},"Ja, das, wir können gerne mal eine separate Folge über, ich mach einfach sone eigene Folge, wo ich einfach nur über die Apple Watch abhitle, so.",{"text":46152,"start":42730,"end":42751},"Ist natürlich die bestperformste Folge ever, wirklich.",{"text":46154,"start":42751,"end":42793},"Ich einfach so, 30 Minuten lang sag ich einfach nur, was ich an der Apple Watch scheiße finde.",{"sentences":46156,"speaker":181,"num_words":226,"start":42793,"end":42825},[46157,46159],{"text":46158,"start":42793,"end":42808},"Okay, also wenn Du das schaffst?",{"text":46160,"start":42812,"end":42825},"Ich ich schieb denen den Feed.",{"sentences":46162,"speaker":160,"num_words":44324,"start":42828,"end":42841},[46163],{"text":46164,"start":42828,"end":42841},"Also mein Apple Watch Rant.",{"sentences":46166,"speaker":444,"num_words":44324,"start":42845,"end":42860},[46167],{"text":46168,"start":42845,"end":42860},"So eine Einzelepisode, nur Du.",{"sentences":46170,"speaker":160,"num_words":43697,"start":42860,"end":42871},[46171],{"text":46172,"start":42860,"end":42871},"Ja, okay, ist ja.",{"sentences":46174,"speaker":181,"num_words":45742,"start":42871,"end":42911},[46175],{"text":46176,"start":42871,"end":42911},"Ihr könnt jetzt an Podcast at Programmier eine E-Mail schreiben, wenn ihr wollt, das Fabi 30 Minuten.",{"sentences":46178,"speaker":160,"num_words":44783,"start":42911,"end":43044},[46179],{"text":46180,"start":42911,"end":43044},"Aber eigentlich finde ich's gut, wenn ich will eigentlich nicht keinen Monolog, ich würd gern Monolog, wo ihr aber auch zuhören müsst, aber ihr dürft nicht darauf reagieren, einfach nur so, jetzt mal so, also ihr dürft nur Sachen, sag ich, das stimmt doch gar nicht so, aber ihr dürft nicht wirklich drauf",{"sentences":46182,"speaker":181,"num_words":43639,"start":43046,"end":43061},[46183],{"text":46184,"start":43046,"end":43061},"Also Dennis, Dave und ich sitzen",{"sentences":46186,"speaker":160,"num_words":43651,"start":43064,"end":43093},[46187,46188,46190,46192],{"text":5808,"start":43064,"end":43065},{"text":46189,"start":43065,"end":43084},"Das ist jetzt auch 'n neues Ja.",{"text":46191,"start":43087,"end":43091},"So was.",{"text":5808,"start":43091,"end":43093},{"sentences":46194,"speaker":181,"num_words":44324,"start":43093,"end":43107},[46195],{"text":46196,"start":43093,"end":43107},"Okay, also wie gesagt, schreibt",{"sentences":46198,"speaker":160,"num_words":44749,"start":43107,"end":43202},[46199,46201,46203],{"text":46200,"start":43107,"end":43129},"mir Macht ihr damit über eigenes Format.",{"text":46202,"start":43129,"end":43172},"Ich such mal einfach nur kleine Features raus und es geht nur so so so Tipp jetzt so.",{"text":46204,"start":43172,"end":43202},"5 Minuten lang rant ich wieder über 'n anderes Feature von der Applewatch.",{"sentences":46206,"speaker":181,"num_words":43639,"start":43205,"end":43224},[46207],{"text":46208,"start":43205,"end":43224},"Einfach so Fabis Dampfablass 5 Minuten?",{"sentences":46210,"speaker":160,"num_words":43753,"start":43224,"end":43292},[46211,46213,46214,46216,46218],{"text":46212,"start":43224,"end":43236},"Ja, das wär toll.",{"text":5808,"start":43239,"end":43240},{"text":46215,"start":43240,"end":43274},"Also sag, gib mal Feedback dazu, wie Du's finden würde, das Format so.",{"text":46217,"start":43274,"end":43278},"Apple Watch.",{"text":46219,"start":43278,"end":43292},"Es ist wohl Es gibt",{"sentences":46221,"speaker":444,"num_words":43639,"start":43292,"end":43307},[46222],{"text":46223,"start":43292,"end":43307},"schon viel zu wenig Hass noch.",{"sentences":46225,"speaker":160,"num_words":45252,"start":43310,"end":43388},[46226,46228,46230],{"text":46227,"start":43310,"end":43332},"Ja, Du machst ja das Web besser mit Privacy first.",{"text":46229,"start":43332,"end":43349},"Ich mach's wieder 'n bisschen schlechter.",{"text":46231,"start":43349,"end":43388},"Aber ohne, das kriegt ihr ohne Cookie, ne, ohne Cookie Banner könnt ihr den renturn.",{"sentences":46233,"speaker":181,"num_words":43651,"start":43392,"end":43421},[46234,46236,46237],{"text":46235,"start":43392,"end":43397},"Ah, phänomenal.",{"text":38151,"start":43400,"end":43401},{"text":46238,"start":43403,"end":43421},"Dann danke Jan, dass Du heute da warst",{"sentences":46240,"speaker":160,"num_words":44734,"start":43421,"end":43429},[46241],{"text":46242,"start":43421,"end":43429},"und Du die",{"sentences":46244,"speaker":181,"num_words":43644,"start":43429,"end":43469},[46245,46247,46249],{"text":46246,"start":43429,"end":43437},"Zeit genommen hast.",{"text":46248,"start":43439,"end":43458},"Fabi, schön Lust, wie die das war da.",{"text":46250,"start":43458,"end":43469},"Ich find auch schön, dass",{"sentences":46252,"speaker":160,"num_words":44734,"start":43472,"end":43481},[46253,46254],{"text":5808,"start":43472,"end":43473},{"text":46255,"start":43477,"end":43481},"Ja, ja.",{"sentences":46257,"speaker":181,"num_words":44754,"start":43483,"end":43535},[46258,46260,46262],{"text":46259,"start":43483,"end":43509},"Wir haben wir haben lange kein Deep Dive mehr zusammen gemacht, Fabi.",{"text":46261,"start":43511,"end":43517},"Ja, ja, ja.",{"text":46263,"start":43517,"end":43535},"Ich frag, ich weiß auch gar nicht warum.",{"sentences":46265,"speaker":160,"num_words":44087,"start":43535,"end":43560},[46266,46268],{"text":46267,"start":43535,"end":43556},"Ich weiß auch nicht warum, war doch eigentlich supersympathisch.",{"text":5808,"start":43559,"end":43560},{"sentences":46270,"speaker":181,"num_words":226,"start":43562,"end":43591},[46271,46272],{"text":38151,"start":43562,"end":43563},{"text":46273,"start":43563,"end":43591},"Dann hören wir uns spätestens nächste Woche wieder zur nächsten Podcastfolge.",{"sentences":46275,"speaker":160,"num_words":43658,"start":43595,"end":43611},[46276,46278,46280],{"text":46277,"start":43595,"end":43602},"So sieht's aus.",{"text":46279,"start":43602,"end":43607},"Macht's gut.",{"text":46281,"start":43607,"end":43611},"Bis 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